Latest / Hearts of Excellence / Human-Centered HR Practices That Reduce Burnout and Improve Resident Care
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Sarah Schacher: even when I worked in clinics, that was always important to me to always, at least twice a day, go through paths, just check on everyone. And sometimes the smallest gesture of, "Do you need a break just to go to the bathroom?" Yeah. "Yes, I'll cover the front desk for you during that time." [00:00:13] Yeah. "I can check in this patient. I can take care of this for Or just being there to help them problem solve in the moment. you will win people over with- just what to me is a very small gesture, but very meaningful. [00:00:24] Paul Pruitt: Yeah. [00:00:28] Chelsey Gheyara: You are listening to Hearts of Excellence, brought to you by Majestic Care, where real stories from long-term care come to life. [00:00:35] Chelsey Gheyara: Our guest, Sarah Schacher, grew up in Missouri, the Show Me State, where she learned early that results matter more than rhetoric. Today, as chief human resources officer at Majestic Care and Bluegrass Consulting Group, she channels that same no-nonsense heart into one of the most important jobs in healthcare, making sure the people on the front lines of care have everything they need to show up fully [00:01:00] for the people they serve. [00:01:01] Sarah, welcome to the Hearts of Excellence podcast. Thank you so much. I'm, like, vibrating- Yay ... with excitement to be here. We're so excited. We do this... We have the same reaction every time. Yeah. We're super excited, and we've- I'm gonna believe that the reaction was just for me. Yes, it's just for you today. [00:01:18] We're very, very excited about it. All right. Well, we're gonna dive in. Um, we've got a really interesting conversation planned today. We're excited to learn more about you. Our listeners have told us they wanna hear more about culture and talent, and I can't wait for them to listen to this podcast. So, um, let's start with our first question today. [00:01:40] Sarah, take me back to the beginning of your career in healthcare, and what pulled you in? And was there a moment early on where you thought, "This is what I'm supposed to be doing"? [00:01:52] Sarah Schacher: Oh, that's such a interesting question. certainly didn't think I would end up here, but it's been an amazing journey to be there so far. [00:01:59] Um, [00:02:00] what originally kind of drew me to healthcare is I always really wanted to work supporting underserved and, like, vulnerable populations. So I originally just really had this heart of I wanted to work with persons with disabilities. That was my goal. That's what I was coming into. So, um, when I cast off in college, I had this idea that I was going to be a vocational rehabilitation counselor or a behavior analysis. [00:02:23] I thought I was gonna be a vocational rehabilitation counselor or a behavior analyst- Wow ... um, working with persons with disabilities. So when I was in undergrad, I got into a company that focused on that and did- job supports and placement for persons with disabilities and in-home supported living. [00:02:39] Um, so got my foot in the door, kind of edged in there. and strangely, I started as an AP clerk in the finance department. So I cut checks and paid bills for them. And what happened from there was administration kind of clicked with me, and I started to reimagine what my future would be like in [00:03:00] supporting, um, those individuals and realized that from behind those front lines, I could actually have a lot of influence and support as a part of that indirect care team member for them. [00:03:12] Um, so I started changing my path, um, and still very much was dedicated to the population, did a lot of volunteering. Of course, worked side by side with our care team members at that time. But that's where it kind of evolved into, okay, I'm sticking more on the operations side and the program development side. [00:03:30] Um, but sometimes I miss that element of being right next to the individuals that we serve. But I love being able to be out with them now and really connect with them. So all of it comes back to just this people focus, and it's more of what we do here at Majestic Care and Bluegrass also. It's serving the underserved and those vulnerable populations. [00:03:51] Chelsey Gheyara: Thank you for sharing that. That is beautiful. It, it's like that helper's high we get, you know, serving people and the impact that we're having. And I [00:04:00] love hearing, I love hearing everyone's story, but mostly I love hearing where y- where you started and, you know, what really set your heart on fire. And it truly is the heart behind the, the work that we do every day. So that's really cool. [00:04:13] Sarah Schacher: I think my journey, too, was really shaped by, you know, that environment that you come from. And, uh, I'm from southwest Missouri. I've shared that. it is a community that is so dedicated to taking care of community. Mm-hmm. I went to, a public affairs university, which is very focused on, like, let's do societal problem-solving. [00:04:32] Let's do public service. And the Springfield community was amazing. They have all of these different organizations that are bind in together of how do we take care of each other. And- Yeah ... it's so inspiring to be brought up in that environment, and it just takes you on of how do you spread that out to other communities. [00:04:51] Yeah. Um, so I've had the joy of being able to expand that to other areas, too. [00:04:54] Chelsey Gheyara: That's really cool. I love that. [00:04:57] Paul Pruitt: Yeah, it's interesting. Um, as you talked [00:05:00] about your journey, it's just interesting 'cause I remember one of my bosses one time just said, um, "You have to find what gets you up in the morning and what your connecting point is." [00:05:09] Mm-hmm. And so I just remember it was always, it was the residents that we serve. And I remember when I was an administrator, that's what really resonated. I could tell when I was getting too far away, or I had too many meetings, or I was in too many whatever. I would always go back out and walk the floors. [00:05:26] And I would do that connecting point again because it's like, okay, this is the reality why we do what we do. The long hours, the long nights, the weekends, whatever it is. But again, it's taking care of the people the most vulnerable. And even now, there's times it's like, okay, I'm gonna go to a building. [00:05:42] And I'm gonna go walk the building. I don't bring my laptop in. I don't bring things in. I purposely want to sit in meetings. I want to go out and talk to the residents and just truly get that high again. [00:05:52] Sarah Schacher: It's an important part of how we reset ourselves. [00:05:55] Paul Pruitt: It is. [00:05:55] Sarah Schacher: And, like, revive ourselves. I mean, that's part of my personal wellness for me. [00:05:58] And I always loved, [00:06:00] you know, early in my career, we always used to use the phrasing of, "Remember how many lives we've changed today." It was, it was a part- Same here ... of our cultural aspect there, our landscape of think about how many lives we're changing together. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I always, uh, hang on to that moment in my mind 'cause I think about how powerful it is to say that we change lives- Yeah [00:06:20] in the services that we provide. [00:06:22] Chelsey Gheyara: Absolutely. It's definitely... It, it definitely puts into perspective other jobs, because when you do get out of, whether it's healthcare or working with, um, developmental disabilities- Yeah ... you catch yourself almost thinking, "What did I do some- like, what did I do today?" Right? [00:06:38] Mm-hmm. Like, beyond just playing office or, you know. But in, in our industry, in other, you know, the acute care industry and whatnot, you can see that impact, and that- Right ... it, it's, it's hard. I mean, I remember jobs in college. I worked at Best Buy at the customer service desk. Um, shocker. And I loved it, however, it's like, do you want a [00:07:00] long-term career in something where you're not seeing that impact with people? [00:07:03] And anyway, so there's, there's a huge difference there. But definitely- Except I would always challenge you, [00:07:08] Sarah Schacher: every job [00:07:08] Chelsey Gheyara: has impact. [00:07:09] Sarah Schacher: Yes. That's something I believe in really strongly. Oh, 100%. We experience, um, other people's service to us in many different ways that bring us value. So I always wanna encourage people, every job that's out there- Yeah [00:07:20] is a meaningful job with purpose that- Yeah ... makes people like me happy. [00:07:24] Paul Pruitt: Yeah. I think it's- Great reminder ... it's that connecting, what's the connecting to it, though. Yeah. Right? So again, I'll use, you know, like, my daughter, she's very much that mind where she wants to be the fixer- Mm-hmm ... and problem solver. [00:07:37] Mm-hmm. And again, it's a nurse. Mm-hmm. She's going to be a nurse. That's what she wants to do. And then, you look at the, if I look at my son, and we just did this last night. So I look at my son, my son is more that, but he's wired more on the administrative side. Mm-hmm. Logical. You know, looks at it from a different viewpoint. [00:07:54] So where they collide, Yeah. It's like administration colliding with- Yeah ... clinical- Yeah ... [00:08:00] because they sometimes do collide. [00:08:01] Sarah Schacher: Yeah. They see it- [00:08:03] Paul Pruitt: Different views ... it absolutely [00:08:04] Sarah Schacher: is a real clash that's out there. Correct. We have to understand that we're actually gonna connect those joints Yes. Yeah. Right. Not against each other. [00:08:11] Yeah. [00:08:12] Paul Pruitt: Correct, 'cause at the end of the day- Yeah ... it's about, it goes back to it's all about the residents that we serve. Yeah. Yeah. And again, again, the conversation we were having, at the end of the day, you have to be able to look at each other and say, "You know what? I agree to disagree with you on this one." [00:08:26] Yeah. And that's okay. It, it's the reality. But at the end, in our roles, then we can say, "I agree to disagree, Sarah, but at the end, we have to come up with a solution, whether we follow your recommendations, and I may disagree, but, again, you're the leader of HR, and that might be the right direction." I don't have to always agree. [00:08:45] Sarah Schacher: No, we absolutely don't. But we can [00:08:46] Paul Pruitt: have that conversation. But at the end, what's the impact- Right ... to our residents and our care team members out there? Because, again, it goes back to our culture of our company. Mm-hmm. Which is very important because, again, if we don't have a strong culture- [00:09:00] Yeah ... we don't, we can't serve the people that we want to. [00:09:03] You know, you and [00:09:04] Sarah Schacher: I have talked about, too, disagreement is often where your strongest solutions- Oh ... are born. I totally agree. Like, it just makes those juices in your mind flow differently and think differently of how do we actually really come together to move forward. Correct. So I love that dissent because that's where we actually get creative. [00:09:21] I would [00:09:21] Chelsey Gheyara: agree. Yeah, absolutely. Great conversation. Sarah, you grew up in Missouri, the Show Me State. How does that sensibility show up in the way you lead, and what does Show Me mean to you in a human resources context? [00:09:35] Sarah Schacher: I love the fact that I come from the Show Me State. Although I'm a newly anointed Hoosier. [00:09:39] Ooh, yeah. I don't know what that means. You're a Hoosier. It's a fun word to say. But, um, I think when I, uh, put in context of me as a Show Me person from that state as well, I always think back to, um, a few years ago, I actually had a team member who described me as, "Sarah, you're, like, you're a receipts kind of girl." [00:09:59] Like, I am [00:10:00] very much a I want to have backup to what we're doing. Yeah. And I wanna be able to show what we're actually- Yeah ... doing out to individuals I am extremely pragmatic. I think probably Paul's already- Yeah ... picked up on that as well. I'm a very practical person. It doesn't have to be the fanciest solution. [00:10:16] It has to be a workable solution. And I think I stay very grounded in that framework. and that guides me as far as HR as well. Uh, it's focusing on the people. That's really what we're here to do. Um, and how do we help our people be successful? So let's come up with things that are practical for them. [00:10:35] Yeah. That's not a burden, that, um, opens up opportunities for them, lets them focus on their care for residents, and honestly lets them focus on themselves and their family, and that development and flourishing. That's where it always brings me back to. Yeah. But that receipt squirreling, that will never... [00:10:53] I'll never let go of that. I love that. That's awesome. I will start calling you that now. Always be the person that will have documentation on something. I'll be [00:11:00] able to circle back. I'll be able to say- Yeah ... "Show me what you did," and I can show you what I did do. Yeah. That's wonderful. [00:11:04] Paul Pruitt: Well, and you've only been here a short time with us, and I can tell you, you can truly see that. [00:11:09] You know, just in the s- the projects we've worked on together, it's, you can truly see, and what I value so much with Sarah, is that element where it's transparency to our care team members. Mm-hmm. It's the importance of tell the story, not just, here's a piece of paper with a box, check it. It's more about, well, what's behind the check I'm just ready to put? [00:11:31] Exactly. It's, oh, okay, there's more context. It, here's the story. Here's what it means. And that is more impactful- Right ... than just saying, you know, again, we'll just use, if it's a bonus structure, just giving you a document that says, "Here's how much." Right. Well, you would wanna know, what does that mean? Right, right. [00:11:50] How did that happen? Like, what i- Right ... what's tied back behind it? Because as a leader, you just wanna know, like, again, is there an opportunity to make difference? And where can I make a [00:12:00] difference? Is it in different metrics? And that, and if we don't ever share that- [00:12:03] Chelsey Gheyara: Right ... [00:12:04] Paul Pruitt: it then just becomes a dollar figure, and that really isn't what we should be about, just the dollar figure. [00:12:09] It's about the results that we're driving [00:12:11] Chelsey Gheyara: Speaking of being a Hoosier, no, first of all, I did not know Missouri was the, initially the Show Me State- I don't know what [00:12:18] Paul Pruitt: that mean. What does that mean? ... before this. [00:12:19] Sarah Schacher: What does that mean, [00:12:20] Chelsey Gheyara: Sarah? [00:12:20] Sarah Schacher: What does the Show Me State mean? It means like- the Missourians are known, it goes back to some folklore story. [00:12:27] I love this. I wish I could tell you exactly what that is, but it, it goes back... This is, like, learning from my fourth grade elementary class. Yeah. Where you went through learning the state history- The state flower, the state mineral ... but it's more about that Missourians show this very, um, appropriate level of, like, skepticism and- Okay [00:12:43] questioning of things and want to get down to, like, real truth and proof. Okay. That's pretty cool. [00:12:49] Paul Pruitt: Oh, very cool. [00:12:49] Sarah Schacher: It matches me, right? I love that. It does match you. I don't know. I love [00:12:53] Chelsey Gheyara: that. It was kismet that I was born in Missouri. I love it. That's... No, I had no idea. That's really cool. [00:12:57] You've worked across large [00:13:00] multi-state organizations throughout your entire career. [00:13:02] Was there a point where the scale of it felt overwhelming or where you had to figure out how to stay connected to the individual people when the numbers got really big? [00:13:13] Sarah Schacher: it certainly does present its own challenge. Like a spread out footprint and a large number of care team members, obviously that's very difficult to connect to. [00:13:22] I think it starts at how, how did you establish that foundation of your culture and connection, and do you have, like, all the leaders at every point in that geographic foot-footprint on the same page with each other? So it's more, it really starts with that. I believe very much in like a top-down modeling. [00:13:41] Like, if we as leaders are not living, um, what we expect of individuals and what we really believe in our organization, it's unfair for us to expect any other care team member to do the same for us. It's really about still focusing on how do we encourage leaders to develop their relationships with [00:14:00] individuals. [00:14:00] It all comes down to that. And how do we communicate, uh, really our vision and our mission to them well and model that for them and give them the tools to do it. That's what develops your, um, culture essentially Obviously, this is so odd to say, but to thank the pandemic for bringing us technological tools- that actually brought our ease into that. Well, they already existed. We just didn't adopt them as well as we should have. Yeah. We were really stuck in this rut of everything needs to be in this face-to-face forum, and at least the pandemic exploded that opportunity for us. Um, but I still actually still believe a lot in the face-to-face. [00:14:37] Um, I've shared with Paul a lot, I want to be in the communities. In my former life, I was in the clinics or, um, in the offices where we provided service, because we need to have that, um, direct presence to connect to individuals. And remember, it only really takes a moment to make impact with someone. There's a downside to that, too. It only takes a [00:15:00] moment to have an impact with someone. So make sure it's the best- moment that you can absolutely have. Yeah. Yeah. And I always want to model that for our leaders, help them understand how to make the most out of those moments- Yeah [00:15:14] and in developing that culture. It's an oversimplification for me to tell you it's about people, but it is. It's how do we interact with them, support them, show our appreciation? How do we communicate when it's not going well? That's a big part of cultural building also. How do we, um, let them know what the path to s- to success really looks like? [00:15:35] We've got to focus on the relationships, and you'll hear me say that over and over again. And anytime I lead a virtual call or set that stage, one of the small things I express to Paul is, "I'm a camera on kind of person. I need to see facial expressions. Let's tap into our opportunities for that." [00:15:53] Chelsey Gheyara: No, I would agree with all that. [00:15:54] We've talked a little bit about that is when you see people's faces, you, you see how that- Right ... [00:16:00] comment landed, or are they engaged- Right ... or are they who knows, right? We could assume many things. In the technology [00:16:07] Paul Pruitt: world, you can tell when people are working. Yeah. Like, their camera's on, but you can see their eyes. [00:16:12] They're reading an email, typing, and it's f- like, okay, can you stop? But it's interesting 'cause back when I w- worked in the large healthcare system, it is about the connecting. And I remember they rolled out, and I can't even remember ... It's kind of like the, our Hearts of Excellence program that we have in our company, but they branded it a different name. [00:16:31] And I can't remember. So this was through the whole hospital system, post-acute, everything. This was the, the journey we were on. So they gave us a clipboard. They gave us cue cards. [00:16:43] Sarah Schacher: Okay. [00:16:43] Paul Pruitt: And they gave us, like, this whole, like, in a document we could write notes on, like, this whole kind of, like, toolkit. But the part they missed was the tool- it wasn't about the toolkit, but that's how they were educating us to the toolkit. [00:16:58] So then when you go out on the floor, and [00:17:00] I'll use Chelsey 'cause I know she's a nurse by background, it'd be like me coming up to you and just say, "Just a minute." Oh, gosh. You flip through your cue cards, and you're trying to find the right one like- Er, wait. So do you have the equipment that you need to do your job? [00:17:11] Chelsey Gheyara: You're all out of my stuff. And, right. [00:17:13] Paul Pruitt: And so you're finally, like ... And then you write down, "Met with Chelsey. Chelsey said no," or, "Chelsey said this." But there's that human element you miss. Yeah. [00:17:23] Sarah Schacher: That person-to-person contact, and I just remember, like, this isn't working. Yeah. Like, this is so not me. [00:17:29] Chelsey Gheyara: You're like, "I'm just reading my cards." Right. [00:17:32] Paul Pruitt: So then I remembered, and I'm like, okay, that's when I had my lesson learned, like, this isn't about the document. Our Hearts of Excellence isn't about the document. It's the tool to help guide you. Right. But it's really about put the document down and just look at Chelsey and say, "You know what? [00:17:48] You look like you're having a rough day." Right. "What's going on?" Right. And if you can build the relationship, and what I found is if you can get to the people's heart, they'll tell, they will sing like a canary. [00:17:58] Sarah Schacher: Absolutely. "I don't have the [00:17:59] Paul Pruitt: equipment. [00:18:00] That over there is not working." Yeah. "I don't have this." [00:18:02] But it truly is if you don't make that connection- Right ... or when you have to go and say, "You know what? Can we talk about this? Because I don't agree with you, Chelsey, on this one." Right. Or, "I don't agree, Sarah." But you have a relationship that it's like, "You know, I know Paul's doing this out of the right context." [00:18:15] Right. "It's not that he's coming at me to fire me or have a bad opinion. He's literally coming and just saying, 'Hey, can we have a conversation?'" But because we built that relationship- It makes it a lot easier to have. So I absolutely agree with you. [00:18:29] Sarah Schacher: To me, I love the idea of intentional rounding. Yeah. Great that they, um, encourage that with you. [00:18:36] But yeah, y- we can't focus on the supplies with it. Oh, those are good, yeah. It needs to be human Yeah ... and natural. Yeah. And i- it's something, you know, we always used to joke in my former life of an executive director, you know they had a great day if their feet hurt at the end of the day. Yes. Yes. Because they spent so much time on the floor with their care team members- Yes [00:18:53] um, alongside them. And even when I worked in clinics, that was always important to me to always, at least twice a [00:19:00] day, go through paths, just check on everyone. And sometimes the smallest gesture of, "Do you need a break just to go to the bathroom?" Yeah. "Yes, I'll cover the front desk for you during that time." [00:19:10] Yeah. "I can check in this patient. I can take care of this for you." Or just being there to help them problem solve in the moment. you will win people over with- Oh ... um, just what to me is a very small gesture, but very meaningful. [00:19:23] Paul Pruitt: Yeah. It's, you know, it's interesting. It's showing people that it's not... I think, Chelsey, you say this or s- I can't remember. [00:19:31] It's not what you do when people are watching you, it's what you do when people aren't watching. Right. [00:19:35] Chelsey Gheyara: Mm-hmm. Right. [00:19:35] Paul Pruitt: So it's not doing those things, showing up because, okay, is, the camera's on me- Right. ... or are people watching. It's literally walking by a colleague or walking and then just saying, "You know what? [00:19:46] Well, here, I'll pick up those trays, because I can do that." Mm-hmm. "So the person down there needs help maybe going to the bathroom." So again, as leaders, displaying that, you know, we're all in it together. Right. It doesn't matter if I'm in a suit today, it doesn't matter if I'm in jeans today, it [00:20:00] doesn't matter what I'm in, I can go in a room and answer. [00:20:02] And I used to always say as a leader, look, at probably 80% or more of the colleagues, I can, I can handle. [00:20:09] Sarah Schacher: Mm-hmm. You're right. I, I, I feel the same way when I'm at a community of, if there is a call in, I'm just gonna step in and say, "What can I do for you?" Yeah. Also, it's often just passing ice or water. [00:20:20] Right. Right. Or grabbing a pillow off the floor. Right. Simple things that I can resolve quickly and be responsible for. If it's not something I can do, I say, "I'm gonna track someone down for you." Yeah. But even that human connection of someone's, um, watching out for you- Right ... and has your back, that's just very important. [00:20:36] And I always want to preach ownership of that, too. Like, we should take ownership of every opportunity we can have to make that magic moment for someone. Right. Yes. Absolutely. If, if we see a spill on the floor, I don't care if I'm there in my suit, I'm gonna clean up that spill. Right. Right. Because that's the right thing to [00:20:54] Chelsey Gheyara: do. [00:20:54] Right. Yes, the hearts of excellence is, it's operationalizing our mission. Right. You know? I mean- [00:21:00] Absolutely ... we, we give... We have the framework, you know. However, like you both were saying, you know, make it, make it you, make it personal, right? You don't, "Here's suggested things to say." Right. However, we want it to be you. [00:21:11] We want it to be human. And if you are owning that, being accountable, you're, you're walking and living and breathing our mission every day. Um- Okay, Sarah. So we've talked about the why. Now let's talk about the what. So your bio says you're driven by removing barriers for care teams. We talked a little bit about that already. [00:21:32] you're removing barriers for care teams for the people they serve. Um, tell me about a time you removed a barrier and something measurably changed for someone on the front line. [00:21:42] Sarah Schacher: I've evolved a lot in my career. Um, really, so what I'm admitting that I'm at 20 years in, at least, to my career. [00:21:50] Um, and really only half of that's been really truly dedicated to HR leadership. I've always been more on the operational programmatic side. but HR is fresh in [00:22:00] my mind. That's where I've, um, that's where I've settled into. I've made my nest there now. So maybe I'll focus on that. Um, I think a lot about how do we simplify lives for our care team members in a way that meets their needs the most. [00:22:18] So, like, w- some of the things that Paul and I have talked about, small opportunities that we have here at Majestic Care in Blue Grass is we don't have a, a solution right now for, um, our care team members to enroll in their health benefits electronically. It's all done over the phone or with the person. [00:22:35] And I think to myself, they live such busy lives, usually you're talking with a partner about what's best for you and the family on that enrollment, and I personally will usually do that at 11:00 PM at night when I'm there with my spouse, um, talking through that. Like, that's small things that actually we can do to make big impact for them And really when I think back on it, I've done a lot of that in HR in my career. [00:22:59] I've ... I [00:23:00] mean, coming in here, I ... When I took over the helm of my first company as their, uh, VP of HR and Payroll, really focused on new software implementation. We didn't have employee self-service, so we didn't make it easy for them to be able to live their lives outside of work in the way that work influenced that. [00:23:19] Um, how did we improve our health plans to really meet their needs, removing those kind of barriers and thoughts? Yeah. And when I say barriers, sometimes it's not even something ... I'm thinking more about things that prevent them- Right ... from moving forward in the direction that they want to. Right. So we've got to always offer them the solutions that make them happy and make them feel secure- Yeah [00:23:38] of what that means next for them. I'm also a big person of I hate, um, steps that just seem like, why are we repeating our work? Or can't we simplify this in some way? So can be very process-oriented, sometimes almost too process-oriented on that. Um, how do I simplify for care team members to give us feedback in some way, or to [00:24:00] report an issue to us and seek that resolution? [00:24:03] earlier you mentioned, we talked a little bit something that I really admire about you is education. [00:24:10] Chelsey Gheyara: So y- we talked a little bit about, it wasn't about education, but it was something along those lines. Um, and that is a huge barrier being removed. Like, that reduces so much mental load for our care team members when they just, they know what their resources are, and they're educated about ... It was about the why. [00:24:27] Oh. They're educated about the why. we all have so many things going on in our lives, just knowing you have somewhere to turn to. Oh, or this is easy. Oh, I thought it was so hard, but it's not. Right? And, um, so that was one right there I can think of. Yeah. So yeah- You helped me out there. [00:24:44] Sarah Schacher: I'm a very- Yeah ... organized ... Yeah. Um, doesn't always come across, 'cause I can be very structured. Um, I can tell you there's always a method to the madness. Uh, my thoughts are much more organized than sometimes I bring them out of my mouth for you [00:25:00] But I tend to always want to be very transformative of how easy do we make it for care team members- Right [00:25:05] and really some of those frontline leaders that are working with us too, to get the information and resources and tools that they need. Yeah. I don't want them to have to call Sarah always for the answer. I wanna have the answer already out there for them- Yeah ... and for them to be self-sufficient and independent, and to be able to carry that across the finish line. [00:25:22] So organizing the way that we present information, making that accessible to them is one of the easiest ways that we can simplify the lives of all of our care team members across the board. [00:25:34] Paul Pruitt: it's a necessity anymore. Because again, as the generations keep changing. [00:25:38] Sarah Schacher: You know, again, my kids live off of technology. So again, it's things we've talked about. It, uh, I'm sure if, you know, our care team members, our younger ones coming in and saying, "Okay, you're gonna get a phone call." And they're gonna be like, "A phone call?" Yeah. Like, "What? You mean nobody's gonna text or- And we [00:25:55] Chelsey Gheyara: get so many phone calls, like spam calls- Right [00:25:56] when someone sells your information. I mean... And they don't [00:26:00] take- Yeah. Right ... they don't do phone [00:26:00] Paul Pruitt: calls typically. No. They do texts. Yeah, no. Yeah. They do some type of, you know, Instagram chats, whatever, all the things they use. But again, it goes back to even the technology. Like, I know for me, back in the day, I would sit with my wife and we'd kind of go through the benefit plan and just saying, "Okay, what- Mm-hmm [00:26:17] what should we do, and how much is it gonna impact our finances?" Especially when our finances when we were young in our marriage, and it's like, okay, every penny counts. Yeah. Not that it doesn't now, but back then, I mean, we made... I was a nurse aid, and she was Walgr- worked at Walgreens. We made, like, $13 an hour- Mm-hmm [00:26:33] together. So and it's like, we have to make sure. So again, making sure that we have the technology, the tools, the resources for our care team members, and that's what's very exciting is that they'll have that to be able to tap into and utilize, and really help them be successful in their careers. [00:26:50] Absolutely. [00:26:51] Chelsey Gheyara: You frame the work as serving both the care team and the person receiving care, and sometimes those needs pull in different [00:27:00] directions. Was there a time you had to hold both of those things at once? And how... Tell us a little bit about how you navigated- [00:27:07] Sarah Schacher: initially when you asked it, I heard it as almost like these competing needs. [00:27:12] and I thought, "Well, okay, then we haven't done our part as leaders to really help, um, honor what the role of care team members is and to help them understand their influence and their contribution towards how we serve our residents and our patients." [00:27:27] But sure, there are times I think maybe there could be that conflict. I think it goes back to that, you know, natural tension that sometimes comes up with like operations and- Right ... clinical, um, arms. We need both of them to function really well. One cannot survive without the other. As much as they may want to disagree on that- That's right [00:27:44] it's just the reality. Right. We make each other stronger- Absolutely ... um, working together. So I think it's always still acknowledging what those pain points are and maybe what seems to be conflicting ideologies. It goes back to that, you know, old school [00:28:00] approach of like mediating a problem. Let's reframe that problem, um, together and realize what are we actually up against. [00:28:10] Um, so maybe one example that I would bring is burnout. So we need to take care of our residents well. Um, that's a demanding role for our care team members at the frontline to do. Um, but we also wanna be, we wanna preserve, you know, their work-life balance and their health. And those sometimes can seem like they're competing, but if we find a way to take care of and avoid that burnout issue, we're actually gonna have better care for our residents. [00:28:40] Right. Like, we're gonna be more focused on them. We're gonna be healthy and fluid and clear-eyed to support them. So sometimes I think it's identifying maybe if we solve what might be this seemingly isolated problem over here, we've actually resolved the whole- Yeah ... um, and brought some [00:29:00] peace to the process. [00:29:01] again. So as you mentioned earlier, you recently joined Majestic Care and Bluegrass Consulting in early 2026. [00:29:08] Chelsey Gheyara: What surprised you most? S- or something you didn't expect to find that you wa- when you walked in [00:29:15] Sarah Schacher: Is it strange to say almost nothing should have surprised you? No. No. At this point in your career. Um, yeah, I always like to joke there's, there's nothing that you can say to an HR person that they haven't heard before is the reality. [00:29:28] but maybe I'll say a very pleasant surprise and welcome, and it was really probably very influential in my decision to come to Majestic Care and Bluegrass, is that there was this very dedicated focus to our care team members are important to us, and we are really in this phase now where we're gonna do everything we can to lift them up. [00:29:51] And that was a huge selling point for me because, um, unfortunately, this is, uh, uh, no criticism of where I've been before. I've alwa- I've worked at [00:30:00] great companies before, but sometimes we lose focus on that. And, in our industry that we do here, um, Majestic Care and Bluegrass, our people are our product. [00:30:11] That's what we really offer our residents and our families. So we need to have the best product that we can, um, to make ourselves competitive, to make sure that it's a great experience for our residents, to make sure that they are happy and cared for. we're committed to that. We're full on. We're putting all of our, you know, research and development And, um, all of our focus into that now. [00:30:34] and then that was irresistible to turn away. [00:30:37] Paul Pruitt: You know, what's interesting is you're talking about that piece. So I went to, um, I'm trying to remember the conference. I think it was the... Went to the Quality and Population Health Summit. And so went, checked in at the hotel, and as you can see by the can on the table, I'm a huge Diet Coke drinker. [00:30:56] Mm-hmm. And hotels are either Pepsi or Coke. [00:31:00] So long story short is I asked the gentleman, "Do you have a vending or an area?" And I said, "Do you have any Diet Coke?" It was late at night, I was getting in late. And he said no. And the part that amazes me, and it's what you talked about, is pouring in that experience, lifting them up. [00:31:15] This gentleman literally, not only did he go to s- wherever he went, 'cause they sold Pepsi products. But wherever he went, somewhere, found and brought me that night- [00:31:24] Sarah Schacher: Wow ... [00:31:25] Paul Pruitt: three Diet Coke, cans of Diet Coke. [00:31:28] Sarah Schacher: Whoa. [00:31:28] Paul Pruitt: Ah. But not only did he do that, the next day I went to my room, and in my room was a 12-pack. [00:31:35] Sarah Schacher: Whoa. [00:31:35] Oh, that's so lovely. So you think about, [00:31:37] Paul Pruitt: like, how do you allow team members, how do you build that culture? How do you help lift them up? How do you help them feel like, "I'm invincible. I can do anything." Right, right. "Because I have, I've been empowered by the leaderships. I've been empowered by Chelsey in her role, and Paul, and Sarah, and whomever." [00:31:55] And I literally, like, had to pause, and I had to go, like, downstairs and find [00:32:00] somebody. I'm like, "Do you have one?" A way for me to communicate to him. [00:32:03] Sarah Schacher: Because, like, this was like, blew my mind. Like, he, he had no reason. And the lady's like, "A 12-pack?" And she goes, "The only way that could've happened is he must went and got it." [00:32:12] Chelsey Gheyara: Wow. That's so- So- Such an incredible person, yeah. Oh. That is- Right. But again, what- ... chefs tell us that story, I, I have that- What did they do in their [00:32:20] Paul Pruitt: company? What did they do- Yeah ... to fester or to, allow that to happen, allow that person to feel confident they could do that? And literally for me, I'm like, "Okay, how do I recognize..." [00:32:32] And I'm like, I'm not a cash carrier because of technology and that. So I'm digging, trying to find as much cash as I can to put it in this thank you card to write to him, just say, "Oh my gosh, this is phenomenal." Yeah. So again, it's like you referenced, it's how do we continue to lift up our workforce? How do we continue to remove the burnout, all the external strenuous stressors they have in their lives, so they can come and just deliver that level of care? [00:32:59] It's just [00:33:00] phenomenal. [00:33:02] Sarah Schacher: I'm nearing the final questions. If you can talk directly to someone who's working a double shift right now, whether it's a CNA, a QMA, a nurse, um, they're exhausted and they're wondering if anyone in leadership even sees them, what would you want them to know? [00:33:20] When I talk about focusing on people, it's always about individuals and our care team members should always be on this very individualized basis that makes them feel recognized and seen. so I don't know that I would have a blanket response for any particular person. [00:33:35] I think in my due diligence, I would know that individual to be able to come up with a message that really, um, helps them. But I do think what we strive for at Majestic Care and Bluegrass, and really we're accomplishing, is we do see all of those contributions. Yeah. And we recognize the sacrifices that we're asking our [00:34:00] care team members to make to be able to really support residents. [00:34:03] Taking care of others is the hardest job any of us will ever e- encounter. and I mean that in all sense of the word or of the phrasing of what it means to take care of others. I always also say your hardest job that you will ever do is to be a manager of people and a supervisor to people. Because they are counting on you, um, to be your best. [00:34:24] Paul Pruitt: It's a job where you always have to be on. but I think it goes back to, like, what we said earlier. It's, it's a great question because we're faced with it every day. We're faced with somebody doing a double. We're faced with maybe we didn't realize they didn't have the equipment they need. [00:34:38] Mm-hmm. But it's that organic and that natural relationship to connect versus the, the, the cue cards, whatever you're flipping through, versus seeing your face and just saying, "Okay, you're working a double." Like, okay, recognizing that. It's that emotional intelligence- [00:34:55] Sarah Schacher: Yeah ... that we should all have. And I think I would almost open that up with just, "Tell me how you're feeling." [00:34:59] Paul Pruitt: [00:35:00] Right. [00:35:00] Sarah Schacher: Let me respond to how you're feeling. I need to- Right ... have that discovery and understand that from that individual. we really should in every day with each other or every interaction that we have, like, every meeting should close with let's expressing our thanks to each other for being present, for being involved, participating in that. [00:35:20] And that's the way that we should walk away from every shift, every time we're headed out the door, is let's recognize the people who've made it possible. [00:35:28] Paul Pruitt: Yeah. Yeah. And 'cause if you think about it, everyone's gonna have a different story. We have single moms that are working a double, and their challenge could be that, you know, again, once you make that human connection and they feel like they're safe, is being able to say, "You know what? [00:35:42] I haven't seen my kids today." [00:35:44] Chelsey Gheyara: And being able to recognize, like, I'm sure that's hard. [00:35:46] Right. Or if they stay- Right ... who's gonna make dinner for my kids? Right. Or, you know, there's all of those things. Yeah. [00:35:54] Paul Pruitt: And it goes back to what our very, I think it was our first- First ... yeah, our first podcast to where one of our [00:36:00] EDs, uh- with us. [00:36:01] I mean, she literally has gone and said, "If y- because you're staying, I will send a pizza to your home." [00:36:07] Sarah Schacher: Yeah. Fantastic. That was Brandy. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So- And that's what we should think of ... [00:36:12] Paul Pruitt: correct. But again, it's that human element or that human connection, being able to go out and have those conversations, and can you just see it in their face? [00:36:20] Sometimes that's all you have to do is look and see. Not be so busy- Yeah ... that you just run by, "How you doing Chelsey?" And you keep walking by. [00:36:27] Chelsey Gheyara: Or you don't even look at them- Right ... and you're just doing the drive by like- You're drive bying ... don't look, don't look, don't look. Yeah, that's- I checked the [00:36:32] Paul Pruitt: box. I walked by. [00:36:33] Yeah, that's, you, you saw that for the mile away ... I talked to Chelsey and she's doing fine. Right. Versus, you know, "Chelsey, it seems like today's been a rough day." Yeah. "What's going on?" And if you can make that human connection. Right. [00:36:43] Chelsey Gheyara: we're all going through things. Oh, absolutely. And I think, you know, every person in this world, like, life is, is hard, you know? [00:36:50] Yes. Whether if, you know, everyone's going through something silently. Yes. People could just understand that and have [00:37:00] a little empathy and compassion, that would, that would move our mission in itself. And, you know, and this, you know, this is just... We talk about, we get real on this podcast. Yeah. We talk about life and, and all those things. [00:37:12] It, it was interesting you said that, of everyone's going through something silently, which is so true. Yeah. I always want to encourage, we shouldn't have to go through things silently. Yeah. You know, there's this old mantra in the world of business of, like, you bring a different self- Right. ... to work, and you leave a different self at home. [00:37:30] Sarah Schacher: You check it at the door. That is just not realistic. No. We... It... This is not the actual Apple TV show Severance- Right ... enacting itself in our lives. Like, we bring our whole selves there, and we have to honor our whole selves and- Right ... our, um, our team members' whole selves. Right. Like, recognize that, that we are imperfect individuals. [00:37:52] We're vulnerable individuals. We're susceptible- Yeah ... to lots of things. And, there's always this idea of like leave it all [00:38:00] behind, but the best leaders know that our care team members don't. Right. And we acknowledge that, and we try to find ways for them to actually work through that while they're at work too. [00:38:10] Paul Pruitt: Yeah. Well, and again, 'cause I know we do have care team members that listen to our podcast, and I would just encourage any of them that are listening to this- Yeah ... show up with us. Mm-hmm. You know? Allow us to help partner beside you. Sometimes we can't fix this. Sometimes we may not even have the solution, but sometimes we don't know until we know, and we can go look and say, "Did we miss something? [00:38:31] Is there a better solution? Is there a way we can step in and help and give you what you need?" Um, because again, to your point, nobody should feel s- alone, and nobody should feel like, you know, two thirds, three quarters of my brain is dealing with my life, and then the other quarter is dealing with my job. [00:38:49] 'Cause that's what sometimes you're faced with, and that's the piece that it's like how do we allow them to be real and be able to say it, but know that when I say it, I'm safe. It's not gonna [00:39:00] show up on my review. [00:39:01] Sarah Schacher: I'm safe. It's not gonna show up in some other type of document, or it's not gonna be all of a sudden Chelsey knows about it because I went and told Chelsey, and then Chelsey went and told Sarah. [00:39:12] Paul Pruitt: And now, all of a sudden, what I thought was so personal- Right ... is now out there. And that's where we have to just keep things protected. But I just, again, if anybody's listening from our organization, please know, please show up. Please let us know. 'Cause again, there's things that we just don't know sometimes, and we can step in and help. [00:39:31] Can't fix everything, but we can definitely keep striving for that. [00:39:34] Sarah Schacher: We can't fix everything, but we can make it better together. We [00:39:37] Paul Pruitt: can, absolutely. I agree with that. [00:39:39] Sarah Schacher: if you could talk directly to someone who's working- Oh ... a double shift right now, a CNA or a QMA, they're exhausted, they're wondering if anyone in leadership even sees them, um, what would [00:39:50] you want them to know? I don't think it's so much about something that I would want them to know. I think it's more about what do I need to know to support [00:40:00] them. [00:40:00] So I, I think as a leader, a really great thing that we can approach every conversation or in conversations with is, "What can I do to help you?" Yeah. I'm here to serve you. I actually do believe in, um, servant leadership significantly. Um, and, you know, came from a background of the inverted organization chart, where the people we serve is at the top of our organization, and your, you know, executive leadership's at the bottom of that. [00:40:27] And so it's always about we're taking direction from you. Right. What do you want from us? So I think that's how I would open up that conversation. Yeah. What do you need from me? How can I make this, the end of your shift, better for you right now? [00:40:40] Chelsey Gheyara: What's the one thing you wish more people understood about what it takes to lead people well in this industry? [00:40:48] Sarah Schacher: it takes a lot. And maybe it's not even leading people in this industry, it's just leading people as a whole. And ultimately what I would tell you is it takes [00:41:00] vulnerability, to be able to, define and understand our own weaknesses or imperfections or areas that we can improve on to serve the individuals around us. [00:41:11] as a leader, I think sometimes the most powerful thing that you can come back to your care team members to show them that you are invested in them is to say, "I got it wrong yesterday." Yeah. "I reflected on it, and I'm gonna do better for you." Um, and we've already done that here at our time together at Majestic Care and Bluegrass. [00:41:28] We were saying, "You know what? We're changing the course of things. We're, we're forging a new path, because we didn't feel like the last one was taking us in the right direction." Um, so I feel like that is probably the main thing as a leader, is you need to be able to admit when you're not going in the right direction. [00:41:46] Um, and vulnerability, expanding that, and be prepared for difficult conversations. Right. Um, that's just advice that's gonna serve you in every relationship in your life, right? Um, you can't [00:42:00] bury things. You've got to bring it out into the open. And if we don't do that, or we fail to do that, we've failed our care team members. [00:42:06] We've made it impossible for them to succeed. So don't shy away from those difficult things. There's a right way to do it, and there's a wrong way to do it. I will always say that. Um, and that right way is always doing it with dignity, respect, and expressing that you're there to care for them and set them up for success. [00:42:24] Paul Pruitt: One of the things that we're striving for as the executives is, and again, uh, as leaders we learn and grow, but we-- I read a little paragraph every Wednesday at our executive meeting, and part of it is we bring the issues here. We... And I can't re- but basically, we discuss them, argue them, so on here, and then we leave with one voice. [00:42:51] So again, it goes back to is that, you know, having that ability to walk in and have a conversation. There's right and wrong, [00:43:00] but having it, disagreement, figuring it out, coming up with the best solution and moving- [00:43:05] Chelsey Gheyara: Oh, all righty. Last question. What does excellence mean to you? [00:43:11] Sarah Schacher: Oh, if I were to boil it down to a really simple concept, it's do the right thing no matter how hard it is. [00:43:18] And I mean, no matter how hard it is physically, emotionally, if time drained, it's do the right thing. I don't think we should hold ourselves back by processes or, you know, procedures and, um, that entrenchment in what has passed, you know, what we've done, um, in our prior lives. It's about doing the right thing for our residents and for our care team members. [00:43:44] So if that means maybe you break the rules, you heard it from HR, sometimes you break the rules to do the right thing. All right, Lauren. Um, but it is about finding that creative solution that we come back to. [00:43:56] Like, where do we meet individuals in the middle? [00:44:00] And really, the world is gray. It is not black and white. Um, and so find the way to make gray the most beautiful color for you. [00:44:09] Paul Pruitt: I think that's a great response. That's perfect. You know what? echo it completely. 'Cause again, when you look at policies, they're written in a time, in a moment. [00:44:19] Mm-hmm. They're not written for, to be the cornerstone for the rest of our lives. And I think sometimes we write them and we don't realize, 'cause not every situation's evolved. And then all of a sudden it's like something evolves. Well, I can't do it with the policy. Okay. Right. Well, the, you know, we didn't predict that ever happening, so we need to scrap it and let's make the decision. [00:44:39] Because at the end, if we're avoiding to make a decision for our care team members who take care of our residents- Mm ... and it's something so, then deviate from policy and we can always rewrite the policy to meet the need of the company. Right. Um, yeah, I echo what you were saying. There's a way to do it in transparency and [00:45:00] honesty. [00:45:01] Did it for the right reason. I will never default somebody if they make a decision. because of the care for this resident. How can you default someone for that? [00:45:09] Sarah Schacher: Right. Correct. We should always be looking for that harm avoidance- Correct ... in any way that we can. [00:45:14] and that means bending. [00:45:16] Paul Pruitt: Well, it goes back to, I just remember, and we've talked about this, is with nurses. I don't know about when you started out in your career as a nurse, but back when I started as an administrator, I can't tell you how many nurses we fired for med errors. [00:45:26] Sarah Schacher: And then having this wake up moment and realization at one time, it's like, "What are we doing?" [00:45:31] Yeah. What's the root cause of that? Right. Have we done enough- [00:45:35] Paul Pruitt: Right. And we didn't- ... to help prevent those med errors ... because the policy said if you have so many med errors, it's like an attendance thing, right? Mm-hmm. Check the box. You have so many attendance, therefore you have so many med errors, therefore... [00:45:46] Versus saying, "Okay, first of all-" [00:45:48] Sarah Schacher: What happened? "... what [00:45:49] Paul Pruitt: happened and caused this?" And was it that Chelsey was in the middle of a med pass and the actual root cause was Chelsey's trying to pass meds for X amount of residents and she's [00:46:00] getting up, interrupted every two minutes. [00:46:01] Sarah Schacher: Yeah. That's right. Or someone fell- Distraction [00:46:03] and- Right. So on. Bang. Right ... what were the contributing factors to the situation? Yeah. [00:46:06] Paul Pruitt: And so then to say, "Well, I'm sorry, but you made the error," so it's literally black and white. Right. Like- Check, check, check. Your turn. Versus, "Okay, we put you in an environment that nobody could be 100%." Right. [00:46:19] Chelsey Gheyara: That's was set up for you to fail- Correct [00:46:22] actually. [00:46:23] Paul Pruitt: But again, to your point of if you follow the or attendance issue, if you follow the policy, well, did anybody ask Sarah why she's always late? Oh, Sarah's a single mom. Oh, Sarah has kids. Oh, Sarah... Yeah. Okay. Have we even talked to Sarah? Like how can we help her be successful? [00:46:37] Sarah Schacher: Yeah. Like make sure we have that full understanding- Correct [00:46:40] of an issue before we take action on an issue. Correct. Which, you know, unfortunately that's a mistake, um, lots of leaders make. We do. But let's look back on that, learn from it and move forward. Correct [00:46:51] Chelsey Gheyara: Well, that's a wrap. I'm gonna end us out here, but any- anything else that you, either of you, want to add or you [00:47:00] would like our listeners to know? [00:47:00] Anything else? And it can [00:47:03] Sarah Schacher: I'm very happy to be here, and what I can only emphasize enough is this is a team of leadership that is very committed to taking care of all the people in our orbit. [00:47:16] Um, and I really say all the people in our orbit. Like, how do we, make the best days that we can going forward? It's going to take time. you know, we recognize we have a lot of work to do, and we can't do that overnight. we are drawing up those plans now, and we're breaking ground on those next steps. [00:47:34] Um, and I'm very excited about what's gonna come from that foundation. so I just invite everyone, stick with us, and, um, there's just such amazing future ahead of us. And I do believe that we will be the best that we can be. [00:47:51] Paul Pruitt: And I would only echo everything you're saying, and I would just say that I was so excited that Sarah chose to join us. [00:47:59] [00:48:00] You know, and again, um, what... And we've talked a little bit about this, but just so people know, like, this wasn't just, "Hey, I live in Noblesville, and I'm gonna join." Sarah left her community, her family to join us and bring her expertise to help us change the culture of our company and the face of our company, which is for our workforce, which is ultimately gonna provide. [00:48:21] And so anybody that knows, I mean... And again, it wasn't like she moved 20 people here with us. It's just her and Luke, her husband. [00:48:30] Sarah Schacher: It's just the two of us. And our two dogs. And their dogs. So again, [00:48:33] Paul Pruitt: support system and everything is, it was great. So again, to me, I can't say thank you enough for trusting us as a company and but to be an employer that you're willing to, to make such a drastic change in your life. [00:48:47] So thank you. [00:48:47] Sarah Schacher: Mm-hmm. I appreciate that. Truly. Truly. Feel very welcome to be here and excited. It's, you know, I will develop new chosen family here. I feel [00:48:54] Chelsey Gheyara: that. [00:48:55] Sarah Schacher: Truly. Yes. Absolutely. [00:48:56] Chelsey Gheyara: I love, I love that. Perfect ending. Well, thank you for tuning in [00:49:00] to the Hearts of Excellence. Sarah's journey is a reminder that the best leaders in healthcare aren't the ones who make the most noise. [00:49:06] They're the ones who quietly remove every obstacle standing between a care team and the person who needs them most. If you're interested in learning more about the culture at Majestic Care or want to find out more about our career opportunities, visit majesticcare.com/contactus. Or if you or a loved one needs long-term care, reach out to us. [00:49:27] We're here to support your next chapter. Talk to you soon