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Why taxes are awesome · The Soap Box Podcast

• 1:17
  Peta: I'm recording this on Tuesday, the 29th of October.
• 1:21
  Peta: But by the time you get to my dulcet tunes in your ears.
• 1:25
  Peta: Rachel Louise would have stood up as the first female chancellor in British history and delivered the first labor budget of this parliament.
• 1:34
  Peta: Let's just take a pause to realize the enormity of that moment.
• 1:37
  Peta: Showy it's 2024.
• 1:40
  Peta: And it's the first time that we've had a female chancellor.
• 1:43
  Peta: You know, a woman in charge of the money.
• 1:46
  Peta: So, whatever you think of her politics.
• 1:48
  Peta: It's kind of a big deal.
• 1:51
  Peta: Hundreds of thousands of words have been written unspoken about all of this.
• 1:55
  Peta: And I can't exactly give you an up to the minute analysis because where I am sitting at my loft desk, it hasn't been released yet.
• 2:03
  Peta: So I don't even know what's what it's going to say.
• 2:06
  Peta: And if you listen to the soap box, then you're probably also subscribed to at least, I don't know, five other politics and news podcasts.
• 2:14
  Peta: Uh, like the news agents or America first newscast, the troll electoral dysfunction, which is a hell of a podcast name.
• 2:21
  Peta: The rest is politics.
• 2:22
  Peta: All excellent choices by the way.
• 2:25
  Peta: Uh, and you can get upstate news and analysis from them.
• 2:28
  Peta: From much more qualified people with much better podcast production.
• 2:33
  Peta: So why am I bothering?
• 2:36
  Peta: Because I have a particular perspective that I want to share with you.
• 2:40
  Peta: It's something I've constantly moaned about for years now.
• 2:44
  Peta: And it clicked this weekend, but now I have a podcast.
• 2:47
  Peta: And I don't have to mean to my long suffering husband or bored looking people at barbecues anymore.
• 2:51
  Peta: I have you.
• 2:53
  Peta: Aren't you glad.
• 2:55
  Peta: I don't know, background for those of you not immersed in UK politics.
• 2:59
  Peta: Don't worry.
• 3:00
  Peta: This episode is just as relevant for you too.
• 3:04
  Peta: The UK labor party campaign on a promise not to raise taxes for working people.
• 3:09
  Peta: Because people don't vote for tax rises more on that later.
• 3:14
  Peta: They won a substantial landslide.
• 3:16
  Peta: One.
• 3:17
  Peta: That's when the Ethan and I weeped about when the exit polls came in at 10:00 PM on, July, the fourth.
• 3:24
  Peta: And then they announced that the previous government led by the conservative party had left the country's finances in such a state, that things were not at all rosy and would in fact get worse before they get better.
• 3:37
  Peta: That was back in July and we've been waiting for a budget since then.
• 3:42
  Peta: With rumours circulating slash being planted by the right wing media.
• 3:46
  Peta: That everyone's taxes were in fact going to go up.
• 3:48
  Peta: That labor had lied.
• 3:50
  Peta: And that we were heading back to the 1970s in some vague way.
• 3:55
  Peta: So.
• 3:56
  Peta: As we stare down the barrel of the budgets, where the chance to is going to set levels of various different taxes.
• 4:01
  Peta: There's another annoying semantic argument going on about what working people actually means.
• 4:08
  Peta: Our business owners, working people.
• 4:10
  Peta: Are you only a working person.
• 4:11
  Peta: If you get to pace it from your employer.
• 4:13
  Peta: Are billionaires and millionaires working people.
• 4:17
  Peta: Because people don't vote for tanks rises.
• 4:19
  Peta: And most people like to think that they're one of those wholesome working people that pack up their lunch box and head off to a construction site in their check shirt.
• 4:28
  Peta: Or something.
• 4:30
  Peta: And I'm going to be honest.
• 4:32
  Peta: I am bored of this argument.
• 4:34
  Peta: Because it's the wrong one.
• 4:37
  Peta: We shouldn't be arguing over whose class does working people.
• 4:40
  Peta: So that they can rejoice in not having their taxes raised.
• 4:44
  Peta: We should be explaining with big, clear examples on a giant whiteboard.
• 4:49
  Peta: Why paying taxes is great.
• 4:52
  Peta: No, I have not gone insane.
• 4:56
  Peta: We sh people have stopped making the case for taxes.
• 4:59
  Peta: And it's been annoying me for a really, really long time.
• 5:02
  Peta: in the UK and the U S at least taxes are seen as bad.
• 5:05
  Peta: Full-stop.
• 5:07
  Peta: Giving the government money that I've earned all by myself.
• 5:11
  Peta: With either my mental or my physical labor.
• 5:14
  Peta: Developed with my own effort and talent.
• 5:17
  Peta: And scale.
• 5:20
  Peta: Why would I do that?
• 5:21
  Peta: It's my money.
• 5:22
  Peta: I earned it.
• 5:24
  Peta: Me.
• 5:25
  Peta: I got up and went to work.
• 5:27
  Peta: And.
• 5:29
  Peta: Empty bins or cleaned carpets or served ungrateful people coffee in the morning and got their names wrong on cups.
• 5:37
  Peta: I went to the office and sat through really boring meetings.
• 5:41
  Peta: I had brilliant ideas that made my boss.
• 5:44
  Peta: lots more money and, got me a promotion.
• 5:48
  Peta: I built my business.
• 5:50
  Peta: by myself.
• 5:51
  Peta: With my great ideas with my hard work, with my ingenuity and with my long days.
• 5:58
  Peta: and hours that have given me bad posture.
• 6:03
  Peta: I should be able to enjoy the fruits of my own labor without having to fund every Tom Dick and Harry, you want a free ride?
• 6:09
  Peta: And yes, I am now channeling a 75 rod man, propping up the bar in a social club.
• 6:14
  Peta: Why should other people who didn't work as hard as I did benefit from my hard work.
• 6:21
  Peta: I did this all by myself.
• 6:23
  Peta: Why should I have to pay taxes?
• 6:26
  Peta: It just so happens.
• 6:28
  Peta: Then I've got three reasons.
• 6:31
  Peta: Firstly, because you didn't do it all by yourself.
• 6:36
  Peta: Let's stick with the system in the UK, because, well, because I live here.
• 6:42
  Peta: you were born in an NHS hospital, built staffed unfunded by other people's taxes.
• 6:48
  Peta: You were driven home on safe roads that were built and maintained by other people's taxes.
• 6:53
  Peta: You went to a school that was, you guessed it.
• 6:56
  Peta: It's built stuffed and funded, but other people's taxes.
• 7:00
  Peta: And you ate food that was grown by other people.
• 7:03
  Peta: You weren't home late at night.
• 7:05
  Peta: With your path lit by streetlights.
• 7:07
  Peta: And didn't worry about being attacked by marauding vigilantes.
• 7:10
  Peta: Because of other people's taxes, funding, your local council and police force.
• 7:17
  Peta: You set up your business because of the education you received for free.
• 7:21
  Peta: Mostly, which is another conversation.
• 7:24
  Peta: You grew your business with employees who are educated and kept healthy.
• 7:28
  Peta: By other people's taxes.
• 7:32
  Peta: You get your water from taps and systems that are kept clean.
• 7:37
  Peta: And yes, now they're privatized.
• 7:40
  Peta: But there's a whole lot of local infrastructure that goes into that.
• 7:44
  Peta: And you rely on all of that too.
• 7:46
  Peta: Well live.
• 7:49
  Peta: And then when your business got undercut by a multinational outsourcing your services to the Philippines for a fraction of the cost.
• 7:56
  Peta: And you had to make your employees redundant.
• 7:58
  Peta: They didn't lose their homes because they were caught by the safety net.
• 8:02
  Peta: Paid by other people's taxes.
• 8:06
  Peta: We're not individuals.
• 8:08
  Peta: Wandering around in our silos.
• 8:10
  Peta: Not being affected by, uh, not affecting anyone else.
• 8:14
  Peta: No one.
• 8:15
  Peta: Yes.
• 8:16
  Peta: Not even you.
• 8:18
  Peta: Not even Elon Musk, not even Jeff Bezos.
• 8:21
  Peta: No one has built their success purely by themselves.
• 8:24
  Peta: It's all been built within a safe unsecure society.
• 8:28
  Peta: Funded by other people's taxes.
• 8:32
  Peta: And yes.
• 8:33
  Peta: Hello, this is 2024 realist.
• 8:35
  Peta: Peta popping her head in and saying, I know that it doesn't work out how it should right now.
• 8:40
  Peta: And I know the safety net is too small and the police and the health service and the schools are underfunded and that you've blown eight tires on potholes this month alone.
• 8:50
  Peta: But that's partly my point.
• 8:53
  Peta: Because no one has made the case for how connected we are in so long.
• 8:57
  Peta: We think that our success is all down to us.
• 9:01
  Peta: Margaret Thatcher's famous.
• 9:02
  Peta: There's no such thing as society.
• 9:06
  Peta: Because we think it's all down to us.
• 9:08
  Peta: Of course, we should be the ones to benefit.
• 9:11
  Peta: And it's unfair to take some of that money and give it to other people.
• 9:14
  Peta: Who.
• 9:15
  Peta: You know, could just have worked harder.
• 9:18
  Peta: And so people don't vote for tax rises.
• 9:21
  Peta: And so the government doesn't have enough money to fund public services.
• 9:26
  Peta: And so public services don't function properly.
• 9:30
  Peta: And so all, but an insulated few who can run off to Monaco.
• 9:34
  Peta: Suffer.
• 9:35
  Peta: On the vulnerable well, They suffer most of all.
• 9:41
  Peta: So that's my first reason.
• 9:43
  Peta: You didn't do this all by yourself.
• 9:46
  Peta: And then there's rules.
• 9:49
  Peta: Okay.
• 9:50
  Peta: So.
• 9:51
  Peta: My first degree was in politics and sociology.
• 9:54
  Peta: Yes, I am a geek.
• 9:56
  Peta: And I learned lots about various thinkers and their ideas.
• 9:59
  Peta: They were mostly male back then.
• 10:02
  Peta: Let's be honest.
• 10:03
  Peta: Some were interesting.
• 10:05
  Peta: Some were frustrating.
• 10:06
  Peta: You should check out Wilson's broken window theory.
• 10:09
  Peta: If you want to get very mad.
• 10:10
  Peta: And some caught me and have never really left.
• 10:14
  Peta: You know, like those recurring dreams that you have.
• 10:19
  Peta: Roles is valid ignorance was the latter.
• 10:21
  Peta: No.
• 10:22
  Peta: Don't get me wrong.
• 10:23
  Peta: It has its flaws.
• 10:25
  Peta: But this thought experiment popped into my head and into my conversations on a frankly boringly regular basis.
• 10:33
  Peta: The basic idea is this.
• 10:36
  Peta: Imagine you have to design the rules on the structure of a society.
• 10:39
  Peta: From scratch.
• 10:41
  Peta: But you don't know who you're going to be in that society.
• 10:45
  Peta: You don't know if you'll be rich or poor.
• 10:48
  Peta: Male or female.
• 10:50
  Peta: Or nonbinary.
• 10:51
  Peta: Highly educated or not healthy or sick.
• 10:55
  Peta: Which community you'll be part of.
• 10:57
  Peta: What natural talents you'll have.
• 11:00
  Peta: What talents will be revered in that society.
• 11:04
  Peta: You're choosing.
• 11:06
  Peta: From behind a veil of ignorance about your personal circumstances.
• 11:11
  Peta: Now John rules argues that from this position, rational people.
• 11:16
  Peta: Can we do some more of that.
• 11:17
  Peta: Would choose a society with two key principles, one.
• 11:22
  Peta: Equal basic liberties for everyone.
• 11:24
  Peta: Freedom of speech, religion, all those good things.
• 11:27
  Peta: Two.
• 11:28
  Peta: Any social and economic inequalities would need to benefit the least advantaged members of society.
• 11:35
  Peta: And be tied to positions that are open to everyone.
• 11:38
  Peta: Under fair conditions.
• 11:41
  Peta: So the logic of this is that since you don't know where you'll end up.
• 11:45
  Peta: You'd want to ensure that even the worst off position in this society.
• 11:50
  Peta: Would be acceptable.
• 11:52
  Peta: would, would have dignity would be.
• 11:56
  Peta: A good place to be.
• 11:58
  Peta: Because that might be you.
• 12:00
  Peta: You wouldn't risk creating an unfair system that could severely disadvantaged you.
• 12:06
  Peta: For example.
• 12:07
  Peta: From behind that veil of ignorance, you probably wouldn't create a society that allows slavery because you might end up being a slave.
• 12:14
  Peta: You're more likely to support something like universal health care, because you might end up being sick and poor.
• 12:22
  Peta: You'd want that to be a decent safety net.
• 12:25
  Peta: Because it could be you who gets made redundant with three kids and a mortgage to pay.
• 12:31
  Peta: You'd want them to be properly funded hospitals.
• 12:33
  Peta: In case you were diagnosed with cancer at 32, I needed quick access to treatment.
• 12:37
  Peta: So you could live to see your son grow up.
• 12:41
  Peta: You couldn't be a hundred percent sure that you would be top dog.
• 12:44
  Peta: Wouldn't you want to make sure that even the runt of the litter was looked after.
• 12:50
  Peta: I think that's what happens when we realize.
• 12:52
  Peta: That we alone are not responsible for our current position in society.
• 12:56
  Peta: When we grasp the idea of interconnectedness.
• 13:00
  Peta: We start to think about the public services that we'd want.
• 13:04
  Peta: The dignity that we'd want to keep.
• 13:07
  Peta: How we'd feel in that situation and how we'd want to be treated.
• 13:13
  Peta: To build that kind of society.
• 13:16
  Peta: That kind of system.
• 13:18
  Peta: The government needs money.
• 13:18
  Peta: Uh, money that comes from Texas.
• 13:25
  Peta: And the third reason.
• 13:27
  Peta: Third reason that I think that taxes are awesome and that they are a good thing and that we should want to pay them.
• 13:34
  Peta: Well, the third reason is me.
• 13:37
  Peta: Okay.
• 13:38
  Peta: Not me really.
• 13:40
  Peta: Bear with me.
• 13:42
  Peta: I remember very clearly when I paid my first ever self-employed tax bill.
• 13:46
  Peta: And I'm not going to lie.
• 13:48
  Peta: It was a bung clenching moment.
• 13:51
  Peta: Handing over that much of my heart and cash in one go, it's hard not to feel a little resentful.
• 13:57
  Peta: Especially as I did it while watching the government squandered taxpayers' money on faulty, PPE and squashing public protest, but that was a whole other story.
• 14:07
  Peta: You want how much.
• 14:10
  Peta: But after I'd gotten over the anxiety and seeing that large chunk of money, leave my bank account.
• 14:16
  Peta: I honestly felt happy and a little emotional.
• 14:21
  Peta: No, I'm not some altruistic Hasher did hermit.
• 14:24
  Peta: He wants to live in a cave and give everyone else my money.
• 14:26
  Peta: I like money.
• 14:28
  Peta: I like good champagne.
• 14:29
  Peta: And so blouses and spar days.
• 14:32
  Peta: Even if having children means most of those things are currently over rarity.
• 14:37
  Peta: It's not that.
• 14:40
  Peta: I grew up really poor.
• 14:42
  Peta: Social security food parcels from the local church, hommie down.
• 14:46
  Peta: Doesn't quite fit, but it'll have two school uniform.
• 14:49
  Peta: Vouchers for dried milk at the local shop council house.
• 14:52
  Peta: Poor.
• 14:55
  Peta: Other people's taxes fed me through my childhood.
• 14:58
  Peta: And no, I'm not exaggerating.
• 15:01
  Peta: They ignited my passion for learning at school.
• 15:03
  Peta: They kept me warm and safe in the library.
• 15:07
  Peta: When I couldn't afford the books that I would.
• 15:09
  Peta: Go through it.
• 15:10
  Peta: Ridiculous nuts.
• 15:12
  Peta: They looked after me when I fell, I needed stitches.
• 15:15
  Peta: They kept me and my family housed.
• 15:18
  Peta: And further afield, they built the roads.
• 15:21
  Peta: I traveled to school on.
• 15:22
  Peta: They funded the courts that kept me safe.
• 15:25
  Peta: The emergency services that would help if you reached out the hospitals that heal my sister often early bout of pneumonia.
• 15:33
  Peta: Taxes are how a society makes sure that you have equal access to the services and opportunities you need.
• 15:40
  Peta: Whatever your bank balance.
• 15:42
  Peta: And if you suffer unexpected hardship, then there's a safety net to help you back up.
• 15:47
  Peta: Well, That's the idea anyway.
• 15:50
  Peta: Sure.
• 15:51
  Peta: It's not a perfect system.
• 15:53
  Peta: But when it works, it means people like me.
• 15:56
  Peta: Who grew up hiding school trip letters in my bag.
• 15:58
  Peta: So my parents didn't feel guilty.
• 16:01
  Peta: Can build a business that takes them all over the world.
• 16:04
  Peta: And means that I can buy Pringles and rainbow ice lollies when my kids want them.
• 16:10
  Peta: My success is possible because of a society that recognize the need for the redistribution of wealth.
• 16:16
  Peta: Rather than this, they should have worked harder mentality.
• 16:21
  Peta: That leaves us all poorer.
• 16:24
  Peta: That's why being able to pay my taxes made me happy.
• 16:28
  Peta: Being able to contribute to that infrastructure.
• 16:30
  Peta: The one that allowed me to flourish made me proud.
• 16:35
  Peta: But yes.
• 16:36
  Peta: Tuxes may go up in the budget.
• 16:39
  Peta: Mine probably will in some shape or form.
• 16:42
  Peta: As business owners, we might feel that pinch.
• 16:46
  Peta: But here's what I want you to remember.
• 16:49
  Peta: Every time you pay your tax bill.
• 16:50
  Peta: You're not just funding government services.
• 16:53
  Peta: You're investing in future entrepreneurs.
• 16:56
  Peta: Just like, mean you.
• 16:59
  Peta: You're funding the schools where the next generation of innovative thinkers will learn to read.
• 17:04
  Peta: And the universities and colleges and hospitals, where.
• 17:09
  Peta: The surgeons who might save your life one day, we'll train.
• 17:14
  Peta: You're maintaining the roads that your future employees will use to get to work.
• 17:18
  Peta: You're supporting the health care system that keep your team happy and productive.
• 17:23
  Peta: If we want a society where people can be happy.
• 17:26
  Peta: Be successful.
• 17:28
  Peta: Be safe, unsupported.
• 17:31
  Peta: Then until we overthrow capitalism, we're going to have to pay for it.
• 17:36
  Peta: This is perhaps the simplest way that we can contribute to building the kind of society we want to see.
• 17:42
  Peta: Not through occasional charitable giving or corporate social responsibility initiatives.
• 17:48
  Peta: But through our willing participation in funding, the basic infrastructure of opportunity.
• 17:55
  Peta: And if you're trying to work out how much your tax bill's going to grow into the budget and gritting your teeth.
• 18:00
  Peta: Then, little me says, thank you.