Latest / Libido Lounge / What Does a Wife Need to Actually Want Sex? With Caroline Hood (Part 1)

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What Does a Wife Need to Actually Want Sex? With Caroline Hood (Part 1) · Libido Lounge

• 0:00
  Obligatory sex is not sexy.
• 0:02
  Sex turns into, in a lot of couples, this sort of like oil change or something.
• 0:05
  It's like, okay.
• 0:06
  This is our scheduled maintenance, and we have to do it.
• 0:08
  I have been able to have really, really positive physical intimacy with someone where I
• 0:13
  had no emotional intimacy whatsoever.
• 0:16
  So what's that about?
• 0:17
  This idea that desire is anything that belongs to women really I think goes against the grain
• 0:24
  of this messaging we're all swimming in.
• 0:27
  If you're having sex, the idea is that the more you have, the more fun it is.
• 0:31
  Physical intimacy and the release of oxytocin also support that emotional intimacy.
• 0:38
  I think it's common and I think it's pretty normal, but it's not inevitable.
• 0:45
  Welcome back to the Libido Lounge, everybody.
• 0:47
  I'm your host, doctor Diane Mueller, and I am so excited to introduce you to Caroline Hood,
• 0:53
  who's a sex and relationship writer, speaker, and consultant.
• 0:57
  She's the author of Sex Begets Sex and writes the newsletter Desire in Real Life.
• 1:03
  We're gonna dispel some myths with Caroline.
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  So one of the myths we're gonna dispel is that desire naturally fades in long term
• 1:11
  relationships.
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  This comes up, I know, ton a on this show and oftentimes I think we just kind of accept that
• 1:17
  that new relationship energy that is so fun just fades away and we never get to have that
• 1:24
  kind of desire again.
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  And we're gonna break this down, we're gonna talk about why so many couples are just waiting
• 1:30
  for the perfect circumstances to begin to prioritize intimacy and how to break that and
• 1:35
  so much more.
• 1:36
  So, Caroline, it's so great to have you.
• 1:38
  Welcome to the lounge. Oh my
• 1:40
  Oh my gosh.
• 1:41
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:42
  Yeah.
• 1:42
  I'm ready to do some myth busting.
• 1:44
  It should be great.
• 1:45
  That's great.
• 1:46
  Well, let's dive right in.
• 1:47
  So I wanna talk about this whole thing around desire fading in long term relationships
• 1:52
  because as I said in the intro, it's what so many people believe.
• 1:56
  So in your experience, is this even true?
• 1:59
  No.
• 1:59
  I think it's common.
• 2:00
  So I think it's common, and I think it's pretty normal, but it's not inevitable.
• 2:06
  And that's where I think people get tripped up.
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  They see it just sort of everywhere in their friends, in media, in books, in sitcoms, and
• 2:13
  all of that.
• 2:14
  And they think, okay.
• 2:15
  Well, like, that desire and that that high libido is for a new relationship or for my
• 2:21
  twenties or for some other time.
• 2:23
  No.
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  I don't think it's true.
• 2:25
  I think I think it requires intention, right, or in a different mindset, and we can talk
• 2:30
  through that, but I don't think it it's inevitable.
• 2:33
  Are you differentiating something that I love to differentiate in my work, which is common
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  and normal, and just because something is common, first of all, doesn't mean it's normal,
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  and even if it does, doesn't mean it has to happen to you.
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  So I think oftentimes we see it like you're saying.
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  It's like, oh, my friends, my lovers, I get you know, people from your past had this
• 2:53
  experience, and all of a sudden we just think that that means that we are a victim of our
• 2:58
  circumstances.
• 2:59
  But what you're saying is we can do something to prevent that.
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  Right?
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  And what are those things?
• 3:05
  Yeah.
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  I think absolutely.
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  You know, we we and I think kind of highlighting and targeting women primarily, but
• 3:11
  couples generally, we fall into these tropes where we just think, oh, we're busy, or we had
• 3:16
  kids, or we're perimenopausal, or that they're sort of rational excuses, I think.
• 3:22
  So I don't want anyone to think, oh my gosh, I'm crazy, or I'm lazy, or, you know, this is
• 3:27
  my fault.
• 3:28
  It's not any individual's person's fault.
• 3:31
  I think it's really hard to push against this messaging that tells us that desire has to
• 3:36
  fade.
• 3:37
  But it's very possible, and that's where I think we can look at, you know, what does it
• 3:44
  actually mean to create connection in a long term relationship?
• 3:48
  What does it actually mean to maintain that, you know, quote, unquote, spice in that
• 3:54
  conversation and keep flirting alive and keep keep desire really fresh when you are coworkers
• 4:01
  in some senses.
• 4:02
  You are co parents.
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  Right?
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  Like, you have to be both.
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  You have to be a really effective logistical partner, and you also have to be lovers.
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  And sometimes I think people fall into only paying attention to one, and they think that
• 4:19
  that hot sex life is like a reward if everything else is done, or it's the cherry on
• 4:25
  top, or it's if there's time.
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  And that's where I wish couples would say, no, no.
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  We're gonna keep this a foundation of our relationship and not this extra thing that
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  maybe we can do if everything else is organized.
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  I think we've come up with this myth in society.
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  Know there's the reason, the common things around like, well, you see your friends doing
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  it, you're, you know, you maybe you see it on social, on TV and media where the only thing
• 4:53
  that typically is portrayed around relationship is that hot, heavy, new relationship energy.
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  You know, we're not watching movies of like long term couples and they've been together for
• 5:02
  twenty years and they're having, you know, hot sex, but beyond that, you know, thinking about
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  just the the way that our subconscious gets programmed around this, where else do you think
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  this is coming from?
• 5:12
  Yeah.
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  I think that there's a lot of sort of I go back to a lot of feminist theory on some of this,
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  which is that, particularly for women, particularly mothers, their desire, they don't
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  actually have permission to have desire.
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  They don't actually have permission to embrace their own needs, their own pleasure, their own
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  wants.
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  They're supposed to be completely selfless.
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  And I don't think it's just moms.
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  I think it's kind of women of a certain age, quote, unquote.
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  Right?
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  Or it's perimenopausal or sort of post prime.
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  All of these in air quotes.
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  But it's it's this idea that I think women are are meant to be submissive.
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  We are meant to you know, we center male pleasure, we, the royal we.
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  And so this idea that desire is anything that belongs to women really, I think, goes against
• 6:02
  the grain of this messaging we're all swimming in.
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  And so it's really hard for women to say, hang on.
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  Wait a second.
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  Like, this is mine.
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  I'm a sexual being.
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  I get to be a sexual agent.
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  I get to have pleasure.
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  I get to prioritize that.
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  That's just not the sort of ecosystem that we're bred in, and I think we often don't even
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  recognize that.
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  And so we can sort of skip that permission piece and jump straight to some more sort of
• 6:31
  tactical maneuvers, like, if we just schedule sex or, oh, if we just masturbate more.
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  And those are great.
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  I'm all for all of those things.
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  But I think if we don't dig into, like, as you said, like, where is this actually coming from?
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  Like, where are these messages?
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  And I think we sort of miss the the mindset shift that that we we all get to take.
• 6:52
  Yeah.
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  I definitely think, yeah, including the men too, I do think we are in a scenario where
• 6:57
  there's just lack of education for women and men both on desire, and I think there's still
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  this this belief that men and women's desire map their arousal cycles actually largely the
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  same, you know?
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  And and even though I think like talking to women and and and telling women like, oh, yeah,
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  it takes longer for your arousal to kick on, I know for me until I started studying all of
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  this, I thought there was something wrong with me that I couldn't say get aroused at the same
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  timeline as my male partners.
• 7:28
  Right?
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  And then I think there's the men that then they think there's something wrong with them if
• 7:32
  they're not bringing the woman to arousal quick enough.
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  Right?
• 7:35
  Yeah.
• 7:36
  And then nobody's talking about it, and nobody's so, yeah, there's, like, the
• 7:40
  spontaneous and responsive desire in those different pathways that I think, at least the
• 7:46
  sort of circles of the Internet that I swim in, it seems to be a growing knowledge base for
• 7:52
  particularly women going, oh, okay.
• 7:54
  This responsive desire, like, I need to get myself into a position and where the desire can
• 8:00
  sort of click on as opposed to just sort of being horny at a moment's notice, which which
• 8:05
  isn't all male or all female.
• 8:07
  Right?
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  But there's there's sort of general ways in which that distributes.
• 8:12
  But but I think you're right.
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  There's we're not educated, and we don't have the vocabulary, and and we certainly haven't
• 8:20
  been taught told to talk to your partner.
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  Talk about what's going on.
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  Talk about what you like, what you don't, what you're interested in, that you're a little
• 8:29
  nervous, you're confused.
• 8:30
  I mean, we don't support couples in that myth of like, oh, if it's true love, it'll just
• 8:36
  magically you'll just magically align.
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  I mean, it's such a setup.
• 8:40
  It really it really does such a disservice to couples.
• 8:44
  So I wanna talk about this this idea of what motivates people to have sex, because I feel
• 8:49
  like there's so much pressure.
• 8:51
  Right?
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  There's a lot of pressure around sex on, you know, within the couple, and oftentimes if it's
• 8:57
  usually like the woman typically doesn't have as strong of a desire as the man, can.
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  I've definitely seen it go the other way.
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  But oftentimes I feel like the the reason is along the lines of obligation. Like, okay.
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  Like, okay.
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  If, like, the one with less desire, well, you don't wanna be a bad partner.
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  You don't wanna be a bad lover.
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  That, you know, that sort of thing is the primary motivator as far as people actually
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  being intimate when they're not in the mood.
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  So how do we get around them, in your opinion?
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  Like, how do we get around them and find other reasons that is not just like the obligatory,
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  you know, motivational factor?
• 9:31
  Yeah.
• 9:32
  I mean, I think you're right.
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  That's it is common, and I think, you know, sex turns into, in a lot of couples, this sort of,
• 9:38
  like, oil change or something.
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  It's like, okay.
• 9:40
  This is their scheduled maintenance, and we have to do it.
• 9:43
  And potentially, one partner feels more obligated than the other.
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  And and you can look at that as a little bit of a really lovely, like, I I know this is
• 9:52
  important for my partner.
• 9:53
  I care for them.
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  I love them.
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  I think I think that's a nice sentiment, but but obligatory sex is not sexy.
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  And and I also don't think, you know, the person sort of on the perceiving end of that
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  obligatory sex, that's that doesn't feel great for them.
• 10:08
  Sure.
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  They might be able to have an orgasm, but that's not real fulfilling sex.
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  So I do think it comes back to, in this sense, is the sex you're having pleasurable?
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  You get you get to the pleasure.
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  So if it's just obligatory, then I think to myself, well, then what about that sex is not
• 10:27
  actually enjoyable?
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  And are you are you having the type of sex you like?
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  Are you communicating about that?
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  Are you having orgasm?
• 10:34
  Is this just about penetrative sex?
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  You know, I think, is it is it physically and or sort of emotionally enjoyable to you?
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  Do you get benefit from it, or do you feel like it's just a just a maintenance?
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  You know, that's what I would dig into there because I do think it's really common that
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  people have this obligatory nature.
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  And and it can be I'm sure you see this.
• 10:56
  That that can almost start as sort of this nice thing, it can turn really toxic really quickly.
• 11:03
  I just wanna take a quick break to say one of the number one things that leads to a lack or
• 11:09
  just a slowing of passion in the relationship is thinking that our partner's body and mind
• 11:15
  and spirit is going to be the same today as tomorrow.
• 11:20
  So one of the things that happens for so many bodies especially for female bodies is that
• 11:26
  with time, the pleasure needs change.
• 11:30
  And we get into those sexual scripts and those habits of doing the same thing over and over
• 11:35
  and over again, not always realizing that our pleasure body is wanting something else.
• 11:41
  This creates a lack of passion, a desire, a lack of orgasm, and it's one of the reasons why
• 11:47
  bedrooms can start to get quieter.
• 11:51
  I talk about how to fix this and so much more walking you through a step by step guide for an
• 11:59
  entire year if you want on how to improve your pleasure life.
• 12:03
  Start with a free trial, stay for a month, stay for the year, make it yours.
• 12:09
  You'll see all of this and more on how to get started in the show notes below this video.
• 12:14
  I hope you will join me in my Hot Monogamy Society.
• 12:18
  Now, let's get back to our episode.
• 12:22
  This is a really lead into my next question which is in your book, Sex Begets Sex, like one
• 12:27
  of the things I get from your title at least is that there's this element of when you're having
• 12:33
  sex, then there's a desire to like, say, have more in the future.
• 12:38
  Right?
• 12:38
  So it's like by the act, we increase our desire.
• 12:41
  My question is this, like, where is the line in your opinion between, hey, start before you're
• 12:48
  actually feeling ready and then desire will follow?
• 12:51
  So that, and hey, overwriting your own no and listening to your body.
• 12:56
  Like, how do we how do we like peel that apart?
• 12:59
  Yeah.
• 12:59
  I think that's a really good question and I think there's sort of some basic like, if
• 13:04
  there's abuse, if there's trauma, if there's that stuff, then then that's that's a separate
• 13:08
  conversation.
• 13:08
  Right?
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  So there's the assumption that this is a caring, adaptive, healthy relationship.
• 13:13
  With sex, we get sex, as you said, yes.
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  The idea is that there is this sort of positive or virtuous feedback loop.
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  So if you're having sex, the more you have, the the idea is that the more you have, the more
• 13:26
  fun it is.
• 13:26
  Right?
• 13:26
  Sex in in part is a little bit of a skill.
• 13:29
  Right?
• 13:29
  Your own knowing your own body, knowing your partner's body.
• 13:33
  So the more you have, the better you get at it, the more pleasurable it is, and therefore, the
• 13:38
  more you go, oh, yeah.
• 13:39
  That was fun.
• 13:39
  Like, let's do that again.
• 13:41
  So if you can get yourself into that positive feedback loop, it it begets itself.
• 13:46
  Right?
• 13:47
  So what I think but if people are sort of stuck in this, like, where do I even start?
• 13:52
  Because once once it feels good, then you then you don't have to over you never wanna override
• 13:58
  a no.
• 13:59
  That's never that's never positive.
• 14:01
  Your body will never get there.
• 14:02
  There's a very different piece from responsive desire to overriding that no.
• 14:08
  And that's where I think it's about you build in that communication.
• 14:13
  You build in, ensure that you have trust, ensure that you have really open dialogue about
• 14:19
  what's happening both within your sex life as well as across the different domains of your
• 14:25
  partnership.
• 14:26
  And then I also think there's a really important piece around this also a feedback
• 14:31
  loop where emotional intimacy can help drive that physical desire.
• 14:37
  Right?
• 14:38
  But also physical intimacy and the release of oxytocin and the connection that you receive
• 14:43
  and the stress reduction and those other components of physical intimacy, they can also
• 14:48
  support that emotional intimacy.
• 14:50
  And I think that can be a really good buffer against many of the stresses you might
• 14:56
  encounter in a long term partnership, whether it's parenting or finances or health.
• 15:00
  And so that there too becomes a feedback loop, which I think helps to fortify or or sort of
• 15:07
  solidify that couple as a couple as opposed to just co parents or coworkers.
• 15:14
  So there's a lot there's a lot to it.
• 15:17
  And and your your sort of question, like, finding that line.
• 15:20
  I mean, that line is gonna look different for everybody, and that's that's, I think I mean,
• 15:25
  it really just goes back.
• 15:26
  There's communication.
• 15:27
  There's self awareness.
• 15:28
  There's being vulnerable with your partner.
• 15:31
  I mean, there's so much about sex that that happens outside of the bedroom, right, that
• 15:36
  happens in those other moments, and that you build that ability to be fully present and
• 15:42
  vulnerable in a sexual encounter.
• 15:44
  Yeah.
• 15:44
  My next question for you is about emotional and physical intimacy, and so I wanna ask this, but
• 15:51
  before I I get into the misunderstanding I think between emotional and physical intimacy,
• 15:56
  just wanna take a moment to mention one of my sponsors because one of the things that I find
• 16:01
  oftentimes is, you know, with this concept of sex begets sex and your book, I often talk in
• 16:07
  my work about pleasure begets pleasure, so I love your book title so much.
• 16:11
  Right?
• 16:11
  Because Yeah.
• 16:12
  We even see that, like, that oxytocin, when we increase oxytocin in the brain through
• 16:16
  pleasure, the body actually says it kicks out the signal to release more oxytocin.
• 16:21
  So there's a real scientific thing happening there.
• 16:24
  Mhmm.
• 16:25
  And then, of course, like, what if there's performance challenges, if there's vaginal
• 16:29
  dryness, if there's lack of desire, if the man's having, you know, challenges,
• 16:32
  performances, there's a real thing that can happen there.
• 16:37
  Right?
• 16:38
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• 16:43
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• 16:44
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• 16:45
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• 16:50
  these different sizes.
• 16:51
  And there's more sizes, right, for men.
• 16:55
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• 17:00
  like a clitoral one.
• 17:01
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• 17:06
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• 17:12
  and just allows for hardness, it allows for actual size changes for men both in length and
• 17:18
  girth that have been shown to actually lead to permanent changes.
• 17:22
  Females, vaginal dryness, more pleasure, on and on and on and on.
• 17:26
  So, you know, pleasure begets pleasure, so this is a really great starting point for couples.
• 17:30
  And you can find coupon codes and links for that in the show notes.
• 17:34
  But my question for you on this is, okay, so with physical and emotional intimacy,
• 17:39
  oftentimes we're taught that physical intimacy happens when emotional intimacy is strong.
• 17:45
  Right?
• 17:45
  This is what a lot of therapists will teach.
• 17:48
  But, you know, my question is when when we're thinking about this, isn't physical intimacy
• 17:53
  also one of the ways we create emotional intimacy?
• 17:57
  Right?
• 17:57
  So there's this, like, this efficient cycle.
• 17:59
  So how do we get out of this?
• 18:00
  Where do we start?
• 18:01
  Yes.
• 18:01
  It's it's really frustrating, and there seems to be this sort of hierarchy that I'm seeing or
• 18:07
  this value, this sort of moral value that's, like, emotional intimacy must must precede
• 18:14
  physical intimacy or other sort of facets, which is like if there's any, you know, 100% of
• 18:21
  the connection between the two partners must be fully healed, fully resolved, fully nitpick
• 18:27
  your word, and only then shall you have good physical intimacy.
• 18:33
  And I think I mean, I I'm pretty sure a lot of people can look back on their sex lives and go,
• 18:38
  oh, right.
• 18:39
  Like, I had really hot sex with that guy who was a total jerk.
• 18:42
  Like, so so how does that you can't confirm your hypothesis if if you have experiences like
• 18:48
  that where you go, okay.
• 18:50
  Actually, I have been able to have really really positive physical intimacy with someone
• 18:55
  where I had no emotional intimacy whatsoever.
• 18:58
  So what's that about?
• 18:59
  So it's more complicated.
• 19:00
  I think we have to really look at the fact that that there is something about, you know, you're
• 19:05
  talking about pleasure, there is something about pleasure that that is allowed when there
• 19:10
  is freedom, and there is there is you're able to kinda shut your brain off.
• 19:15
  You're able to it's not fraught.
• 19:18
  And sometimes, those one night stands or whatever you wanna call them, you're not gonna
• 19:22
  see the person the next day.
• 19:23
  You don't care.
• 19:24
  So there is a freedom there, which is a little bit different than somebody you love and you
• 19:28
  wanna build a family with and you wanna spend your life with that.
• 19:32
  It it means more.
• 19:33
  So so I think this there's so many reasons why we're why this idea that the emotional intimacy
• 19:39
  must be fully fixed, and until that is again, it sets up couples because, as you just said,
• 19:45
  the physical physical can drive the emotional.
• 19:48
  And if you're always waiting for the emotional to be perfect, you're you're not allowing the
• 19:52
  physical to sort of play its part in the healing, in the in the intimacy, in the
• 19:57
  affection, and you're not you're not using it and enjoying it for its full capacity.
• 20:03
  Again, I think this is where it's it's setting couples up, and we've we've just gone too
• 20:08
  extreme.
• 20:09
  Like, I think it's great that we've recognized an emotional intimacy is super important, and
• 20:13
  it's great that we're not telling women, hey.
• 20:15
  Just just say yes no matter how you feel, even if you're even if your husband or your
• 20:20
  boyfriend is a jerk.
• 20:21
  Like, okay.
• 20:22
  Good.
• 20:23
  But but that doesn't mean that we don't find other ways to connect and grow our connection
• 20:29
  through physical.
• 20:30
  Yeah.
• 20:30
  I love that, and that's a perfect way of wrapping up and then letting everybody know
• 20:35
  we're gonna continue our conversation in part two.
• 20:38
  In part two, when we have you back next week, I wanna talk a lot about more what we do about
• 20:44
  this. Right?
• 20:44
  Right?
• 20:44
  What do we do more specifically of how we get out of this cycle of, you know, physical
• 20:49
  intimacy helps with emotions, but emotions help with physical intimacy and where do we start.
• 20:53
  And I wanna talk about also this this idea on spontaneity because Yeah.
• 21:00
  This is another thing that I think is just a myth that we see in the sexual wellness world
• 21:05
  around around is spontaneity good?
• 21:07
  Is spontaneity bad?
• 21:08
  Is scheduling good?
• 21:09
  Is scheduling bad?
• 21:10
  What is gonna really sustain desire over time?
• 21:12
  So, we're gonna talk about that next time.
• 21:14
  So, everybody, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss out on that.
• 21:18
  And then, I want everybody to know how to get ahold of you, how to get ahold of some of your
• 21:23
  resources, as well as your book.
• 21:25
  So, can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 21:27
  Yeah.
• 21:27
  Sure.
• 21:28
  All of my handles are the same.
• 21:30
  So Desire in Real Life is where you'll find all my work.
• 21:33
  My website, desireinreallife.com at desireinreallife on Instagram.
• 21:38
  And then Substack is a really great place to find all my reading and resources at desire in
• 21:42
  real life.
• 21:43
  Easy.
• 21:43
  Amazing.
• 21:44
  So we will put all those links in the show notes for you guys.
• 21:46
  I hope you will go check out Caroline's book, and then again, make sure you subscribe so you
• 21:51
  get next week's information.
• 21:53
  We're gonna talk more action steps, strategy, and more.
• 21:56
  And of course, the penis and lady pumps, you'll find those in the show notes as well with
• 22:00
  coupon codes.
• 22:01
  Thank you everybody for tuning in to another episode of the lounge, and thank you Caroline
• 22:05
  for being here with me today.
• 22:07
  Thank you.
• 22:07
  We will see you all next week.
• 22:12
  Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
• 22:14
  Please don't keep me a secret.
• 22:16
  Please share this with your friends.
• 22:17
  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.