Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / The Last Stop Before Trial in the Grisly Murder of Massachusetts Mom Ana Walshe

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The Last Stop Before Trial in the Grisly Murder of Massachusetts Mom Ana Walshe · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:02
  Well, here we are, everybody on the eve, not literally, but
• 0:07
  close to the eve of the trial of Brian Walsh, a man who is
• 0:13
  accused of violently and disgustingly cutting down his
• 0:22
  wife and cutting her into pieces before disposing of her
• 0:26
  scattered throughout the Boston area.
• 0:31
  It is a case that is offensive to everybody's sensibilities.
• 0:36
  And it's just infuriating, just infuriating to watch him sitting
• 0:42
  there in court as lawyers for both sides argue about the
• 0:47
  different rules of how how everything's going to happen in
• 0:50
  the trial starting in December. So today was his last pretrial
• 0:57
  hearing. We're going to get into it.
• 0:59
  We'll do a little bit of a background on Anna Walsh, his
• 1:03
  victim, well, his alleged victim, let's say, and what we
• 1:08
  are going to expect with this trial coming up, Stick with me.
• 1:24
  This video contains mature themes and discussions intended
• 1:27
  only for adult audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
• 1:33
  Well hello there my friend, Welcome back to another true
• 1:36
  crime conversation with me, Gavin Fish, right here on this
• 1:40
  channel titled Not All That Creatively Gavin Fish.
• 1:45
  Be sure to tell me in the comments where you are from.
• 1:48
  I'd like to see where you guys are checking in from.
• 1:50
  I don't know, I just really enjoy hearing about or reading
• 1:54
  where everybody is from. So put that in in the comments
• 1:58
  in the live stream or if you're on the rewatch group, put it in
• 2:00
  the comments for me, will you? Hey, today we are talking about
• 2:04
  Anna Walsh. Anna Walsh was a 39 year old
• 2:10
  mother of two. If I remember correctly.
• 2:15
  She was an executive that worked for Tishman Spire.
• 2:18
  She lived part time in Washington, DC, part time in
• 2:22
  Cohasset, MA. Her husband, Brian Walsh.
• 2:26
  Oh, they're three sons. That's.
• 2:28
  I remember that now. Yeah.
• 2:29
  Mother of three. She lived with her husband there
• 2:34
  in Cohasset, with their three children, their three sons.
• 2:39
  And she would commute back and forth to Washington, DC.
• 2:44
  Now, on New Year's Day 2023, she goes missing.
• 2:54
  Husband has no idea where she was.
• 2:57
  No idea. But I just, I just hate this
• 3:03
  story so much. They were having all sorts of
• 3:07
  marital issues. There were affairs.
• 3:09
  There was federal crime. There was so much going.
• 3:13
  In fact, it's one of those things where I am reminded to
• 3:17
  not oops, to not wish for the lives of other people, instead
• 3:24
  being grateful for your own challenges.
• 3:27
  Because when I look at this couple behind the smiles,
• 3:33
  behind, you know, the, the Instagram beautiful photos, the
• 3:38
  giant diamonds. This was a troubled, troubled
• 3:44
  relationship that ended ultimately in Anna's death.
• 3:52
  Wow. Please excuse me.
• 3:54
  Remember during the live stream, if you want me to see a comment,
• 3:58
  put GF in the comment that will help me see where you are from.
• 4:04
  Let's see. Julie Martino says happy Monday.
• 4:08
  It was a happy Monday. And you know why?
• 4:10
  You know why? Because this is the week.
• 4:15
  This is anniversary week. This is the week that my sweetie
• 4:21
  pie, my snuggly bear, my one and only and I celebrate our 26th
• 4:26
  wedding anniversary. And we started this week.
• 4:29
  We're we're doing multiple things this week.
• 4:31
  We started by going down to Pittsburgh.
• 4:34
  And it doesn't matter what we're doing together.
• 4:37
  It's not nefarious, it's not a secret.
• 4:39
  It's just we got to spend some time together, just her and me.
• 4:46
  And it was a glorious, glorious way to start our anniversary
• 4:50
  week. Our next little date will be
• 4:53
  Wednesday night. So on Wednesday day after
• 4:56
  tomorrow, we will not be doing a live stream because that is our
• 4:59
  actual anniversary. And we'll be headed down to the
• 5:03
  Pittsburgh area for some scrumptious vittles.
• 5:06
  But thank you very, very much. Shay says you agree.
• 5:11
  You just adore the way I think. Well, thank you very much,
• 5:14
  Angie. Baby from still from Moose Jaw,
• 5:17
  SK. And I never believe you.
• 5:19
  Yeah, 'cause. Come on.
• 5:22
  Moose Jaw. OK.
• 5:25
  All right. You know what?
• 5:26
  You friendly neighbors to our N You just you're OK.
• 5:29
  You can you can you can name places.
• 5:33
  Moose Jaw if you want. We got Indiana in the house.
• 5:36
  Jacksonville, FL. Karen's Australia.
• 5:39
  Glad you're here. Fort Worth, West Virginia,
• 5:42
  Saginaw, up in Michigan, North Carolina, Illinois.
• 5:46
  We got Alabama in the house. Ireland.
• 5:49
  Ireland is with us this evening. So glad you're here.
• 5:52
  Modesto. Julie Martino in Modesto
• 5:57
  tonight. That's is Modesto, the place
• 6:01
  where we would go to the water slides.
• 6:04
  What was that like? I don't remember, but we did
• 6:09
  seem to. Oh, Modesto does have a very,
• 6:12
  very good airport for those of you who are aviationally
• 6:16
  inclined, as I am. Rainy Los Angeles in town,
• 6:21
  Southeast Idaho, Erie, PA Mooney with us, as always from
• 6:28
  Virginia. We got North Carolina.
• 6:29
  More Texas content. Angel says I need to remember
• 6:35
  that when people portray themselves as rich and happy
• 6:37
  online. Yes, yeah, that the the fact of
• 6:43
  the matter is all of us have struggles.
• 6:47
  All of us have issues. And we only put up in public and
• 6:53
  on social media, it seems the stuff that makes us look all
• 6:57
  happy and and everything. So, yeah.
• 7:02
  So Erie Pai thought I I thought I got you in Erie, PA.
• 7:05
  That's good. Thank you for the happy
• 7:08
  anniversary notes, everyone. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 7:14
  I don't know every woman deserves that kind of feel like
• 7:18
  Kevin. Well, again, we put forward our
• 7:23
  we put our best foot forward online, right.
• 7:28
  But I certainly deserve her 26 years.
• 7:32
  Yes, thank you very much. North Carolina hair, Judy
• 7:36
  Studios, Judy Studio says, I wanted to ask if you caught
• 7:40
  Brian at the end and his lawyers got up for a sidebar with the
• 7:43
  state. Put something in his jacket
• 7:45
  pocket and I think it was his attorney's pen.
• 7:47
  I did not catch that. I did not catch it.
• 7:51
  I watched it on double time to try to catch up with everybody.
• 7:55
  Oops. Wrong one.
• 7:56
  Yeah. The O Mantika.
• 7:58
  That's right. Not Modesto, but it is close.
• 8:00
  You're right. And yes, that was a good place
• 8:03
  to go. Water sliding, though, for a
• 8:06
  Sacramento kid, it was way easier to go to Cal Expo.
• 8:08
  What's the name of the? What was the name?
• 8:11
  Was that just called Waterworld or something like that at Cal
• 8:14
  Expo? Later it turned into Raging
• 8:16
  Waters or something. So, yeah.
• 8:19
  All right. Very cool.
• 8:24
  OK, thank you guys for being here.
• 8:26
  Let's let us get into the story real quick.
• 8:30
  And remember, put GF in your comment if you want me to see
• 8:33
  it. Let's see.
• 8:36
  I want to make sure that. Oh, you know what I didn't do?
• 8:39
  I didn't prepare any headlines. I didn't prepare any headlines.
• 8:44
  What the devil, Gavin? You know, though, it's very easy
• 8:51
  to find them. All right, let's take a look at
• 8:57
  some headlines before we get into this.
• 9:00
  Here we go. True crime headlines.
• 9:11
  All right, True crime headlines brought to you by Crime Cod, my
• 9:15
  true crime news website. This article brought to us by
• 9:19
  Kate Byrd Headline Drug dealer freed by Trump returns to prison
• 9:24
  on assault charges. Oh dear.
• 9:26
  We try to stay non political but let's read on.
• 9:29
  Jonathan Braun, who received clemency in 2021, received a 20
• 9:33
  month, 27 month prison sentence following accusations of
• 9:38
  physical and SA. Dateline, Brooklyn A convicted
• 9:43
  drug dealer who was freed by President Donald Trump in 2021
• 9:47
  has been sentenced to federal prison again after prosecutors
• 9:51
  accused him of physical and SA. Jonathan Braun, 42, received a
• 9:55
  sentence of 27 months in prison followed by 3 1/2 years of
• 9:59
  additional supervisor released, according to the New York Times.
• 10:02
  The sentencing came after Braun violated the terms of his
• 10:04
  release, given when Trump commuted his 10 year prison
• 10:07
  sentence in the final hours of his first term.
• 10:11
  Wow. Oh dear, come on.
• 10:14
  Braun was initially. This kills me, I don't even want
• 10:18
  to read this. Braun was initially sent back to
• 10:22
  federal custody in April after he was accused of physically
• 10:25
  assaulting a three-year old child, Mr. Braun.
• 10:35
  That incident led to his detention while awaiting a
• 10:38
  hearing for the violation of his released release.
• 10:41
  He is currently being held in the Metropolitan Detention
• 10:44
  Center in Brooklyn, according to federal inmate records and the
• 10:47
  rest of the stories there. You can read it on crimecod.com.
• 10:50
  One more manhunt. This brought to us by Jacob
• 10:54
  Manhunt expands in Texas after a 17 year old girl shot run over
• 10:59
  at party. What what I didn't prepare for
• 11:03
  these. I'm not I'm not emotionally
• 11:06
  prepared for this stuff. Guys, I was just talking to our
• 11:09
  son, our oldest son who listen guys, it is normal for a father
• 11:16
  to brag on his children, right? It's normal, but well, first
• 11:23
  it's going to start with a brag on myself.
• 11:25
  OK, I am a very good portrait photographer.
• 11:30
  I'm very good at it. It started with training at in
• 11:35
  my high school, followed by a career stint at JC Penney
• 11:41
  Portrait Studio when I was 16 and 17 years old, followed by
• 11:46
  actual study. I just.
• 11:47
  I just love the art form of human portraits.
• 11:52
  I love human lines. But that's, it's not about you,
• 11:55
  Gavin. That's a tangent.
• 11:57
  It's not a big enough of a tangent to hit the audio, but a
• 12:02
  little bit. Anyway.
• 12:04
  I was just talking to our son and it reminded me that I took
• 12:10
  the most beautiful portrait of him for our Christmas cards.
• 12:16
  Like he might be the prettiest man ever to walk the earth.
• 12:22
  He is good looking. So listen, if you have daughters
• 12:25
  in their early to mid 20s that are looking for a good young
• 12:28
  man, you know, hit me up. Go, go to gavinfish.com.
• 12:33
  Go to gavinfish.com. Click the little, you know, the
• 12:37
  little icon up here and say, hey, I've, I've got a
• 12:42
  delightful, we're looking for a delightful, lovely young woman
• 12:48
  to, to pair up with the world's prettiest young man, the most
• 12:53
  photogenic. OK, he's going to kill me.
• 12:56
  Anyway, I was talking to him and we were talking about, because
• 13:00
  I'm in this whole nostalgia like pit still from turning 50 and
• 13:06
  having a hard time with that. I'm spending all of my like time
• 13:12
  thinking about this time when I was 1718 years old and having
• 13:17
  the time of my life and just living in a picturesque place
• 13:22
  with terrific friends. And then I read something like
• 13:25
  this. Authorities say 18 year old
• 13:26
  Deshawn shugs fled after the chaos on Lucky Rd. leaving a
• 13:31
  community desperate for answers after a 17 year old girl is
• 13:35
  shot. Let's read on.
• 13:37
  Dateline, San Antonio, TX 17 year old Aliana Ujueta Ujueta
• 13:46
  arrived at the Southwest Behar County House party in the early
• 13:51
  hours of September 28th with, as the Behar County Sheriff's
• 13:56
  Office put it, her whole life ahead of her.
• 13:58
  According to the Sheriff's Office, she was fatally shot
• 14:02
  around 2:30 in the morning on the 13640 to 13900 block of
• 14:08
  Lucky Rd. where deputies later found her lying in the roadway
• 14:13
  with a gunshot wound to the head.
• 14:14
  Come on. Oh, that is just heartbreaking,
• 14:19
  man. Authorities say the suspected
• 14:22
  gunman, 18 year old Deshawn Shugs.
• 14:25
  I think it's probably how you say that fled and is now wanted
• 14:29
  on a murder charge. According to Kcat's reporting,
• 14:32
  the Sheriff's Office said a caller described a violent
• 14:35
  altercation involving several people that escalated before the
• 14:39
  shooting. Oh my goodness.
• 14:41
  Witness account cited The San Antonio Express News indicate
• 14:47
  The witness accounts cited by the San Antonio Express News
• 14:51
  indicate the fight spilled into the street where multiple
• 14:55
  gunshots were heard. That we just live in a sad day
• 14:59
  where altercations can turn into into gun battle.
• 15:06
  Ah man, you know what? And I'd like to say that we're
• 15:10
  going to get into a happier mood, but we're not.
• 15:14
  Why? Let's finish headlines for true
• 15:24
  crime headlines. Yeah, always just check in on
• 15:30
  crimecod.com. Over on Crime COD, you can
• 15:32
  actually sign up for our newsletter.
• 15:35
  We send it out Vive San Cuando just every once in a while.
• 15:39
  And yeah, it's, it's a great site, if I do say so myself.
• 15:45
  It is, it is my side. I really shouldn't laud it too
• 15:48
  much, but I just really am very proud of Jacob and Kate for, for
• 15:53
  continuing to write terrific articles on Crime COD.
• 15:56
  And by the way, if you have any aspirations of being a
• 15:59
  journalist or being a reporter, that is a trainable skill that
• 16:02
  you could learn by writing for Crime COD.
• 16:04
  You are welcome to to do that. OK, news is not going to get any
• 16:08
  better, y'all. Why?
• 16:10
  Because we're talking about the case of Anna Walsh.
• 16:13
  Let's do just a quick little reminder of this case.
• 16:19
  And then what I've done is I've prepared a few clips from
• 16:24
  today's pretrial hearing. I've got five of them, I think,
• 16:28
  and it basically they're going through the motions in lemonade
• 16:33
  to this, you know, to basically set the rules of the trial.
• 16:38
  But let's talk about this real quick.
• 16:39
  And I actually had let me see I had a Gavin let me open up this
• 16:52
  document real quick. I just want to talk a little bit
• 16:56
  about Anna, and then we'll talk a little bit about Brian, and
• 17:02
  then we'll talk a little bit about the case.
• 17:03
  Does that sound good? All right, so Anna Walsh,
• 17:11
  serving American woman for Cohasset, Mass, dual citizen of
• 17:15
  both Serbia and the US. Aside from Cohasset, she also
• 17:21
  lived in other parts of Massachusetts, including
• 17:23
  Marblehead, Revere, Lynn, Boston, Lennox, and Pittsfield.
• 17:27
  She previously lived in Washington, DC, and she actually
• 17:30
  had a home there still. Falls Church, VA.
• 17:35
  This is a woman who worked really, really hard.
• 17:42
  From 2002 to 2008, she attended the University of Belgrade in
• 17:47
  Belgrade, where she earned her bachelor's degree in French
• 17:50
  Language and literature. By the way, OK, this is a
• 17:54
  tangent. This is a total tangent.
• 17:56
  Here we OK, I am considering trying to learn another language
• 18:10
  and French is the one that is speaking to me the most right
• 18:14
  now. France, besides Germany is
• 18:17
  probably the foreign nation. Well, besides Argentina and
• 18:23
  Germany, let's say it's probably the foreign nation that I've
• 18:25
  spent the most time in. I'm I'm considering learning
• 18:29
  French. I don't want to do Duolingo, I
• 18:31
  want to do something conversational.
• 18:35
  If any of you are from France or are or French speaking and want
• 18:40
  to join a little, maybe a WhatsApp little group where we
• 18:43
  could speak to each other in French to, to practice, that
• 18:46
  would be great. OK, that's my tangent.
• 18:48
  So she earned her bachelor's in French language and literature.
• 18:53
  From May 2005 to September 2005, she worked at the Inn at Little
• 18:58
  Washington in Washington, VA as a housekeeping attendant.
• 19:02
  So this is a woman that I she, she worked her way up.
• 19:07
  There's a lot to admire about somebody who does that.
• 19:10
  So much to admire. From May 2006 to September 2006,
• 19:16
  she worked there as a server and then made August 2007, she
• 19:20
  worked for Interchange in New York City, NY City as a program
• 19:25
  logistics coordinator. In 2008, she met Brian at the
• 19:29
  Wheatley Hotel in Lenox while she was married to a guy named
• 19:33
  Mark Nip. From May 2008 to September 2010,
• 19:37
  she worked in that hotel as a reservations manager.
• 19:41
  From 2009 to 2010, she went to Cornell University in Ithaca,
• 19:45
  where she earned a master's certificate in Essentials of
• 19:48
  Hospitality management. OK, so it's like a continuing
• 19:51
  education kind of a thing. Not a degree, but learning the
• 19:55
  craft, right? Which is awesome.
• 19:58
  Again, somebody who is finding her way.
• 20:03
  Moving her way up, right, Let's see From September 2010 to
• 20:11
  February 2012, she was the assistant manager at the Willard
• 20:15
  Intercontinental Hotel in Washington, DC.
• 20:17
  She continued to work there as a front desk manager and front
• 20:21
  desk operations manager basically to 2015.
• 20:26
  In 2014, she divorced her first husband.
• 20:30
  And this is an interesting little tidbit.
• 20:34
  She told in 2014, the Metropolitan Police that Brian
• 20:38
  made a statement over the telephone that he was going to
• 20:40
  kill her and a friend, which I mean, it just begs the question,
• 20:46
  why did that lead to a marriage? Why did that lead to a marriage?
• 20:50
  Now, I know that there are so many reasons that I don't
• 20:54
  understand. I'm not qualified to understand
• 20:59
  psychological reason, reasons. There might be some, some
• 21:04
  coercion and all that. But ladies, we have an Uncle
• 21:13
  Gavin moment here, OK? Listen, listen, if a man tells
• 21:22
  you now this is coming from a man, OK?
• 21:25
  That is evidenced by the giant beard.
• 21:32
  If a man ever tells you that he's going to kill you, it's not
• 21:36
  a joke. And if he says it's a joke, it's
• 21:38
  not funny. Run, run, run far, far away.
• 21:44
  Because one of the things that I have learned in this journey of
• 21:50
  being part of the true crime community is that the men, and
• 21:56
  it's a, it's a small segment of the population of men at the
• 22:00
  extreme that act on this. But all men have a deep and
• 22:12
  instinctive propensity to great violence.
• 22:17
  OK. And I'm telling you this because
• 22:19
  I care about you. This is something that you take
• 22:22
  seriously. If a man says I'm going to kill
• 22:27
  you, that is not a joke. If he says it's a joke, it is
• 22:31
  not a funny joke. It's nothing to joke about.
• 22:35
  Run far, please. I'm begging you.
• 22:40
  OK? Because I don't, I, I, I see
• 22:43
  pictures of this beautiful young woman who is no longer
• 22:48
  inhabiting this earth of ours. And if she got a red flag early
• 22:55
  on, this is not to blame her. It's not to blame her at all.
• 22:59
  It's just let's learn from this, right?
• 23:01
  Red flag. Run.
• 23:04
  I'm begging you. OK?
• 23:07
  She continued her career in hotels, including at Taj Hotels,
• 23:16
  I think. I think they were married, yeah,
• 23:21
  they married at Immanuel Episcopal Church in Boston on
• 23:24
  December 21st of 20/15/2016. She gave birth to her first son,
• 23:32
  2019 gave birth to her second son.
• 23:35
  So her first son is what, 10 years old, not quite about to
• 23:40
  turn 10. Her second son is, you know, 5
• 23:45
  or 6. And then she continues her her
• 23:50
  work in in hospitality. In 2020, she gave birth to her
• 23:55
  third son. So yeah, her youngest is
• 24:01
  5:00-ish, right. OK, a little bit about Brian.
• 24:12
  He met Anna once again in 2008 at the Wheatley Hotel.
• 24:18
  Now Brian, let's, let's bring up, let's not bring up this one.
• 24:23
  Let's bring up this one. I like this one.
• 24:26
  On May 3rd, 2011, he attempted to consign 2 Andy Warhol
• 24:31
  paintings to a gallery in New York City, but the gallery
• 24:34
  declined to accept the paintings because he did not have a bill
• 24:38
  of sale. On August 12th, 2014, Anna told
• 24:43
  the Met Police that he made a statement over the telephone.
• 24:46
  Oh yeah, that one we got. They got married in 2015.
• 24:53
  OK, May, let's see. In 2016 he sold fake paintings
• 25:00
  of Warhol to an art dealer in Los Angeles and a buyer in
• 25:04
  France for $225,000. In May 2018 he was arrested and
• 25:09
  charged with wire fraud, Interstate transportation for a
• 25:12
  scheme to defraud, possession of converted goods and unlawful
• 25:16
  monetary transaction. And then on April 1st, 2021 he
• 25:23
  pleaded guilty to wire fraud and this becomes well to all of the
• 25:28
  charges. This becomes important because
• 25:31
  it goes to his character in his trial.
• 25:34
  And then Anna went missing on January 1st, 2023 from their
• 25:40
  home in Cohasset. We're going to learn a couple
• 25:42
  details about that in the trial clips today.
• 25:45
  On January 4th, he told cops he spent time running errands at
• 25:54
  Whole Foods and CVS for his ailing mother on January 1st.
• 25:58
  But video footage showed that these visits did not occur.
• 26:02
  He told investigators he only left the house in Cohasset on
• 26:06
  January 2nd to take his oldest son out for ice cream.
• 26:08
  But security video showed him, Donnie in a black surgical mask
• 26:12
  and blue surgical gloves that day at a nearby Home Depot in
• 26:16
  Rockland, MA, where he made a cash purchase of $450 worth of
• 26:21
  mops, tarps, tape buckets and drop clothes.
• 26:27
  There he was arrested on the 8th.
• 26:31
  On the ninth, he pleaded not guilty to a charge of misleading
• 26:36
  the police. And then he was indicted for her
• 26:41
  murder on March 30th of 2023. And that leads us to basically
• 26:47
  what we're talking about now. Let's bring on a backup.
• 26:50
  All right, couple things that I think we should talk about.
• 26:54
  Let me just couple things that I want to make sure that I that I
• 27:01
  didn't miss. Yeah, federal case involving the
• 27:05
  fake Warhols. Yeah.
• 27:08
  The prosecution's theory into the Anna's death is that there
• 27:15
  were just serious money problems at home.
• 27:18
  There was a life insurance package naming Brian is the sole
• 27:22
  beneficiary there. There are some allegations of an
• 27:28
  affair, like court filings say that Anna had been in an
• 27:31
  extramarital relationship in DC for several months before she
• 27:35
  went missing. Prosecutors say Bryant suspected
• 27:38
  the affair and had his mother hire a private investigator to
• 27:42
  surveil Anna. Anna in late 2022.
• 27:49
  So in just again in November, in December, just so we can
• 27:56
  remember this case just a little bit, Anna actually traveled
• 28:00
  abroad with her boyfriend around Thanksgiving and on Christmas
• 28:07
  Eve she was in DC with him and heads back to Massachusetts for
• 28:11
  Christmas with Brian and the kids saying that she missed a
• 28:14
  flight. I she said that she like drove
• 28:19
  to Boston because she had missed her flight.
• 28:21
  I think probably she was just with her beau and she arrived on
• 28:27
  the evening of the 25th. Prosecutors say she later tells
• 28:32
  her friend Alyssa that there was a big fight over Christmas, that
• 28:35
  she gave Brian an ultimatum about resolving his federal
• 28:39
  case, even if it means jail time.
• 28:42
  So the family can be together now.
• 28:44
  Then there's some searches that Brian makes on his computer.
• 28:48
  Again, this guy. Not the sharpest tack in the
• 28:51
  shed. Is that how the not the tarp,
• 28:55
  sharpest tool in the shed, Not the sharpest tack in the what?
• 28:59
  I can't remember. That doesn't matter.
• 29:00
  OK, He was he was doing searches on his devices.
• 29:06
  So dumb. So on the 25th he did a search
• 29:10
  tied to the DC boyfriend's name. On the 27th he was searching
• 29:15
  about divorce. What is the best state for a man
• 29:17
  to divorce in? Also on the 27th, there's a
• 29:23
  search about a porn title that includes a cheating wife
• 29:29
  scenario, which prosecutors argue go to his knowledge and
• 29:32
  suspicions about the affair. It's the 28th through the 30th
• 29:37
  that he hires a private investigator to follow on NDC.
• 29:40
  On the 29th, there's a dinner in DC with Alyssa Kirby.
• 29:45
  Anna has this dinner where Anna allegedly talks about the
• 29:48
  Christmas fight and about wanting to the family together
• 29:51
  in DC. This is this is going to go to
• 29:56
  the state of mind evidence that was discussed in the hearing
• 30:00
  today. We'll get to on the 30th, Anna
• 30:03
  flies back to Boston from DC for a New Year's weekend.
• 30:08
  Never, never to return to DC. So let's, I mean, if there are
• 30:16
  any questions that you guys have or comments, let's see what you
• 30:18
  guys are talking about. Let's see.
• 30:28
  Yeah, Pammy is agreeing with me. Believe, believe the threats.
• 30:33
  Believe the threats. Judy Studios says truth about
• 30:41
  threats. My daddy was only alive a brief
• 30:43
  moment of my life. But the one piece of advice was
• 30:46
  if a man is mean to a cat, he'll be mean to a woman.
• 30:50
  Totally. Totally.
• 30:53
  Yeah. That is such, such good advice.
• 30:58
  Yeah. And our Tina says when people
• 31:00
  tell you who they are, believe them and listen, this I, I want
• 31:04
  to extend as much understanding as grace as possible in this
• 31:07
  one. I know it's hard.
• 31:10
  I know it's hard. And I mean, but the, the, the
• 31:16
  number of women that we cover on this channel that end up dead
• 31:20
  man, Yes, indeed. OK, let's see.
• 31:31
  Yeah. Joe.
• 31:32
  Joanne Marie says there's absolutely no humor to someone
• 31:35
  threatening your life. If they can say it, they're
• 31:37
  capable of doing it. I believe that.
• 31:39
  Not the sharpest crayon on the box.
• 31:41
  Maybe. ML Loftus says I hope when all
• 31:47
  is said and done that it only takes the jury 30 minutes or
• 31:50
  even less for guilty. I Yeah, Bonnie says.
• 31:56
  I walked away from a toxic relationship.
• 31:57
  My father helped me. Good on your dad.
• 32:00
  Good on your dad. He was a controlling, horrible
• 32:03
  man. Don't let those horrible men
• 32:05
  know you are going go to anywhere he can't find you.
• 32:08
  Ask for help. Yeah, Yep.
• 32:11
  They're, they're, there's an organization that I am loosely
• 32:18
  aware of because I know one of their executives that has made
• 32:25
  an app that they do not advertise.
• 32:31
  It's only made known through women's shelters where because
• 32:37
  women who are in relationships like that, some women tend to go
• 32:43
  back and forth. They leave, they go back, they
• 32:45
  leave, they go back, right. So women at shelters can get
• 32:49
  access to this app that is not traceable.
• 32:52
  Like an abusive partner wouldn't be able to know that you're
• 32:59
  talking to somebody who is a a therapist or a psychologist or a
• 33:05
  social worker or something like that.
• 33:07
  So, yeah, just got to be just got to be so careful, guys.
• 33:11
  OK, this this brings us. OK.
• 33:14
  So in a pretrial hearing like this, this actually is an
• 33:19
  indication to me that trials going forward, this I would be
• 33:23
  shocked if we got to December 1st and there was some sort of
• 33:28
  plea deal. I would, I would just be
• 33:31
  absolutely shocked because in this hearing, which lasted, I
• 33:37
  think when, when I was in looking at the video, from the
• 33:42
  time that he was escorted in to the time that the judge left the
• 33:46
  bench was like an hour and 31 minutes, something like that.
• 33:53
  There were during the hearing. This is basically the last
• 33:59
  conference, unless there's some huge argument between the sides,
• 34:05
  the last conference where the judge is going to make rulings
• 34:10
  on motions called motions in lemony.
• 34:13
  They pronounce it lemony. It's limine, right?
• 34:17
  I, I think that if the law is going to use Latin, they should,
• 34:22
  they should pronounce Latin. But doesn't matter, doesn't
• 34:26
  matter. OK, these motions in lemony just
• 34:29
  kills part of my soul to say that the judge is going to rule
• 34:35
  on these things and give, give boundaries within which the the
• 34:41
  trial can proceed. Because remember, the judge is
• 34:45
  the judge of the law only, not the judge of the facts.
• 34:50
  In a trial, the judge of the facts, the judges of the facts
• 34:54
  are the members of the jury. So the judge is setting up the
• 34:59
  boundaries with within which they must behave during court.
• 35:05
  So I have pulled out five short clips from the hearing that I
• 35:12
  think are important for us to watch.
• 35:16
  So the first one is only about 2 1/2 minutes long.
• 35:20
  And this has to do with opening statements and I guess evidence
• 35:28
  or or anything that might be presented, any visual aid that
• 35:40
  might be presented to the jury. OK, And I'm going to warn you
• 35:45
  for those of you wearing head bud, earbuds, head buns,
• 35:50
  headphones, earbuds, whatever, I have bumped up the sound on this
• 35:55
  and the judge did a very good job of speaking into the
• 35:58
  microphone. Nobody else did.
• 36:00
  So I've had to bump up the audio.
• 36:02
  You may want to back off on the audio just a little bit on your
• 36:06
  on your device so that it doesn't blow your eardrums out
• 36:09
  because it's highly compressed. When the judge speaks, it never
• 36:12
  goes above 6 DB down, but it's highly compressed.
• 36:16
  So I just want to give you that little warning.
• 36:18
  I'm going to mute my mic and let's watch this short clip.
• 36:23
  Paper #188 is Commonwealth motion in the lemonade #2 It's
• 36:28
  to notice of any visual aids Defense intends to display
• 36:32
  during opening statements. The defendant objected to that.
• 36:36
  Is the defendant still objecting to that?
• 36:38
  It is, we are. The motion is allowed.
• 36:41
  As to opening statements, I want to see any chalks that you're
• 36:46
  intending to use. It's for your own good because
• 36:50
  if I, if I determine that there's something on that chalk
• 36:55
  that is inadmissible, you are not going to be able to use it
• 36:58
  because you're not going to be able to turn it around.
• 37:03
  Go ahead. Go right ahead and state your
• 37:05
  objection on the record. Well, Judge, I would just like
• 37:08
  to explain something. By the way, a chalk is just a
• 37:12
  term that they use in court to say a visual aid, a chart, a
• 37:17
  photo, or whatever. They refer to them all as
• 37:20
  chalks. I object to it for for a very
• 37:23
  simple reason. I've been doing this for 20
• 37:25
  years. I've never had an objection in
• 37:27
  either my openings or my Closings when I've used visual
• 37:30
  aids. Secondly, I only include visual
• 37:33
  aids that I know are going to be exhibits that are admitted.
• 37:36
  If I have any question about anything that I would use
• 37:39
  visually for the jurors, I approach the DAS, I approach the
• 37:43
  court, make sure that we're all in agreement.
• 37:45
  That's an exhibit I don't use. Then why are you objecting to it
• 37:48
  then? Because it gives, if I give it
• 37:50
  to the Commonwealth before I make my opening, they have a
• 37:54
  road map, they have a preview of what we're going to say.
• 37:56
  Everyone's supposed to be getting a preview of the
• 37:59
  evidence. Not of my opening and not of my
• 38:02
  thoughts. Right.
• 38:03
  I'm not going to engage in a discussion about this.
• 38:06
  Any chalks that you intend to use that are not not agreed to
• 38:11
  exhibits need to be shown to the court and to opposing counsel.
• 38:16
  OK, Judge, just so I understand. And it can be the morning of,
• 38:19
  but it's going to be before you're holding something up in
• 38:23
  front of 16 jurors that we spend 2 weeks picking a jury for not
• 38:27
  happening. And I don't want it to happen,
• 38:29
  but let me just clarify something.
• 38:30
  I understand the court's ruling so far chalks, but not what we
• 38:34
  know to be exhibits. If you have and I know you have
• 38:37
  agreed to exhibits, then you don't need to address that.
• 38:41
  Those are agreed to. You know it's agreed to.
• 38:43
  You can show those if you have chalks, different thing that you
• 38:49
  want to put in front of the jury.
• 38:51
  I am not letting you stand up before the jury without me
• 38:54
  seeing it first and the Commonwealth see it first.
• 38:56
  It can be the morning of, but I do not want you showing a chalk
• 39:01
  to our impaneled jurors without me seeing it first.
• 39:05
  I understand you. I thought, I mean, it got a
• 39:12
  little heated, right, But I think that's perfectly
• 39:15
  reasonable and kind of in I, I don't know, it just seems like
• 39:22
  commonplace, right? It's kind of commonplace.
• 39:25
  I don't know why. I I have no idea why he would
• 39:29
  object to that. In fact, that, you know, I kind
• 39:34
  of got down on Massachusetts courtrooms in the whole Karen
• 39:42
  Reed trial debacle. I was like, oh man, what are
• 39:46
  they doing up there in Massachusetts?
• 39:47
  These people, these courtrooms, what is going on?
• 39:51
  But this judge, what is the name of this judge?
• 39:55
  Brian Walsh. Judge name.
• 39:56
  Brian Walsh Judge name. What's her name?
• 40:06
  Judge replaced and giant Diane Ferneri, right?
• 40:12
  Yeah, I think that's correct. So I'm I'm really.
• 40:20
  Pleased with this judge, I think that she's not taking any
• 40:23
  nonsense in her court. I think that she wants a fair
• 40:25
  trial. She did say hey, this is for
• 40:28
  your own good right does not want objections during the
• 40:32
  opening or closing statements that that seems perfectly
• 40:35
  reasonable and I have I have no problem with that at all.
• 40:40
  Tell me your comments in the in the live chat.
• 40:43
  I'd really love to love to hear what you guys are thinking on
• 40:47
  that. But to me it just seems OK.
• 40:50
  All right, next clip that I want to show you has to do with
• 40:55
  reputational testimony and this is this is pretty good.
• 40:58
  Here we go. Paper #190 is Commonwealth #4
• 41:03
  notice of any proposed reputation testimony.
• 41:07
  It also relates to. I haven't in my notes.
• 41:12
  See paper #193 below. 193 refers to any bad character, bad
• 41:21
  reputation of the victim or any of the witnesses, and alleged
• 41:25
  prior bad acts of the victim or any witnesses.
• 41:28
  The defense is objected to that, arguing that it intends to he
• 41:35
  intends to bring in evidence of general reputation evidence.
• 41:39
  Is that right? Your Honor, at this point we
• 41:42
  don't have any notice of specific reputation evidence
• 41:44
  that we'd either offer through cross examination or in any case
• 41:48
  in chief for us, OK. The concern I do have is the
• 41:51
  Commonwealth has indicated they expect to introduce evidence,
• 41:56
  quote UN quote, that Anna Walsh was a loving mother who would
• 41:58
  never have abandoned her children and was a dedicated
• 42:01
  employee. My mute button.
• 42:06
  I just don't want to wear headphones.
• 42:07
  But this is really interesting that they're objecting to, I
• 42:14
  guess, positive reputational testimony about the victim, but
• 42:19
  they don't have any negative reputational testimony that they
• 42:23
  want to bring, which I I find super interesting.
• 42:27
  So I'm sure the government is aware of the restrictions on how
• 42:30
  this evidence will come in, but that may or may not be relevant
• 42:34
  and so I'd ask the court to revisit this before they seek to
• 42:38
  put this information in. All right, Commonwealth.
• 42:44
  Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, the Commonwealth
• 42:46
  does plan to call witnesses who will testify as to their
• 42:50
  observations of the victim at her employment.
• 42:54
  Her employer will testify as well as her former employee or
• 42:58
  her former employer who was the New Year's Eve guest will
• 43:01
  testify as to. Her Mr. Met.
• 43:02
  Is it Metlu or Mutlu or how do you pronounce his last name?
• 43:06
  Mootlu, Your Honor. Mootlu.
• 43:08
  Mootlu. OK.
• 43:09
  I'll try to remember that. Thank.
• 43:11
  You. Ron Commonwealth will be
• 43:13
  introducing evidence to those persons regarding the the
• 43:17
  victim's work ethic and. Observations or interactions
• 43:22
  with the children. Yes, your honor, observations
• 43:25
  and interactions with the children.
• 43:27
  All right. I'm not going to give you any
• 43:30
  firm rulings on it. You raise your objections at the
• 43:33
  time. I will tell you generally that I
• 43:35
  probably will allow observations of her not to not to an
• 43:41
  excessive amount, whatever that in my mind becomes excessive,
• 43:46
  but general observations as to the victims interactions with
• 43:50
  their children is permissible. You know, I would just add that
• 43:53
  the the law is clear on this. They they can't have specific
• 43:57
  acts. So an observation would be a
• 43:59
  witness giving their opinion or testimony on a specific act.
• 44:03
  And so that's not admissible what they're.
• 44:05
  Allowed. You're right.
• 44:06
  Opinion or testimony? So, observations.
• 44:09
  How are observations of her with her children relevant, which I
• 44:12
  suspect may or may not be relevant once we start?
• 44:15
  And it can't just be a limited number of people.
• 44:18
  So one person from her work saying that she had a good work
• 44:21
  ethic. The case law says you cannot do
• 44:23
  that. It has to be the general
• 44:24
  reputation of a community. And so I guess we will just
• 44:28
  raise the objections at the time.
• 44:29
  I just wanted to put the court on notice that any of this
• 44:32
  testimony could just be inflammatory and prejudicial and
• 44:35
  invoke sympathy of the jury to hear that she was a great mother
• 44:37
  and a great employee. All right.
• 44:40
  I, I hear your objection and I encourage you and I, I know that
• 44:44
  you don't need any encouragement to make the real time objection
• 44:49
  at the time of the trial. And I'm just trying to give you
• 44:52
  some basic guideposts of what I, my present thinking is with
• 44:56
  regard to that evidentiary issue.
• 45:00
  The anyone want anything more on that particular motion?
• 45:07
  OK, so the IT looks to me like the defense here is going to be
• 45:14
  working very hard to maybe not not paint Anna as the cheating
• 45:23
  spouse, but also not allow her to be painted as the doting,
• 45:28
  caring mother. Which I mean, I don't know.
• 45:35
  I don't know if that is, it's just interesting to me, I guess
• 45:43
  the Melissa says, I like this judge never thought I'd be
• 45:47
  rooting for the Commonwealth. Judy Studio says that Mark where
• 45:53
  he put something in his jacket is about 1:40-ish right at the
• 45:56
  end when they have the sidebar. OK, I'll I I don't have that in
• 46:00
  my clips, I don't think, but I do.
• 46:05
  I'll go back and and take a look at it.
• 46:08
  Dashiell Bailey, Reese or Rice says please don't involve the
• 46:11
  children. Yeah, Mooney.
• 46:15
  So defense seems to only want victim blaming, nothing
• 46:18
  positive. Got it.
• 46:22
  Let's see if there's anything else.
• 46:27
  Pammy, go. I know you don't need
• 46:29
  encouragement to make objections.
• 46:31
  Is a very clever shade throw OK, I I don't know if it was shade,
• 46:37
  but but she she definitely said it.
• 46:41
  Let's go to the next one here. This one, if I remember
• 46:44
  correctly, is about oh, showing videos and images of Anna.
• 46:48
  This one lasts about 5 minutes. This this has to do with it's
• 46:52
  it's very interesting to me the rules of the courtroom right
• 46:55
  like you'll, you'll hear her say in this.
• 46:58
  I think it's in this clip. You can show pictures, but don't
• 47:01
  show too many. Show a reasonable amount of
• 47:03
  pictures. Don't overdo it.
• 47:05
  Which I found very interesting. Let's have a listen.
• 47:09
  Paper #11 of the Commonwealth's motion and lemonade to admit
• 47:12
  photos and a short video of Anna Walsh as she normally appeared.
• 47:17
  The defendant objected so. I haven't seen the video, does
• 47:32
  the Commonwealth have a way to show me the video?
• 47:37
  I believe we can e-mail it to Your Honor.
• 47:39
  I'm at like right now, yeah. Honor.
• 47:41
  I have it on my computer. If you can give me a moment, I
• 47:43
  can walk up to the bench. That'd be great.
• 47:49
  Yeah. Generally, what is the video of?
• 47:51
  It's her, with her three children on a rug in the living
• 47:54
  room of the home. And why is it important?
• 47:56
  The rug An identical rug was found in the dumpster outside of
• 48:00
  the defendant's mother's home. John, I can approach, but just
• 48:03
  what might make it easy is the video is unnecessary.
• 48:08
  They could do a screenshot of the video which portrays the rug
• 48:11
  in question about an approach and I can show you.
• 48:15
  That yes, sure. I think I do an edit here so
• 48:22
  it's not totally long. What's good that you?
• 48:34
  There is no reason that the video needs to be played, so
• 48:38
  just take a shot of it. Show the shot.
• 48:41
  Now with regard to the other photos you need to use, it's
• 48:48
  sort of like autopsy photos in my view.
• 48:51
  Use the least number you can use to get.
• 48:55
  I understand that's one picture she's wearing a necklace and one
• 48:59
  more picture she's showing the watch or something else, but use
• 49:04
  the least number that you can use.
• 49:08
  If I may, Your Honor, yes. So I agree with that.
• 49:11
  And we tried to cull it down. So there's one with with a
• 49:14
  jacket, there's one with a watch.
• 49:17
  A black jacket. Yes, there's one with a watch
• 49:21
  and there's one with a necklace of the.
• 49:24
  We can probably take away one or two from what we submitted
• 49:29
  because I believe that there's one where she's with Mr. Mutlu
• 49:32
  wearing the watch. So maybe we can delete that one.
• 49:36
  So we're talking probably about four.
• 49:39
  Your Honor, the other issue is those photos can also be cropped
• 49:43
  and there can be a stipulation that the cropped photograph
• 49:47
  showing a person wearing the necklace, the coat is in fact a
• 49:51
  photograph of Anna Walsh. They, the defense really just
• 49:55
  does not want Anna Walsh like humanized.
• 49:59
  And it does seem like the court is sympathetic to that.
• 50:04
  Like they she finds it may be prejudicial to the jury.
• 50:13
  I'm not sure how I feel about that though.
• 50:14
  The judge is judging on the law, not on the sentiment of it,
• 50:18
  right? But it does feel to me like the
• 50:20
  defense is going listen, crop it in, don't show her, show the
• 50:26
  necklace, show the watch, show the jacket, crop it in so that
• 50:30
  the jury doesn't come to the radical conclusion that our
• 50:34
  victim here was a lovely person. And I wonder I OK this I just
• 50:40
  wonder about this. OK.
• 50:44
  One of the reasons that I think that cases like Anna Walsh's hit
• 50:50
  so hard with us is because we value beauty in our society and
• 50:58
  she was a beautiful woman. And so I, I wonder if this idea
• 51:05
  that the, I mean, look, look at the difference between these two
• 51:11
  people. OK, just look at the difference
• 51:14
  between these two people. 1st we have Anna, then we have Brian,
• 51:23
  right, We have Anna, we have Brian.
• 51:29
  Maybe they are full ongoing. Listen, there's a it's
• 51:32
  disadvantageous for us to keep showing our victim as this
• 51:36
  beautiful woman and her assailant.
• 51:41
  Wow, her assailant as the chubby, schlubby dude that he
• 51:47
  is, right, Federally convicted art.
• 51:52
  You know, fraudster that he is. Maybe that's what they're going
• 51:57
  for. They're saying it's prejudicial
• 52:02
  to show Anna as this beautiful person when the jury has to look
• 52:07
  at at this guy in court. So they have sent a a parade of
• 52:12
  photographs. I think that there's other ways
• 52:15
  to serve that purpose and some might be stipulations.
• 52:19
  So this. Well, I'll let you work out
• 52:21
  whether you have any stipulations.
• 52:22
  But even if you if you want it that way, doesn't mean that the
• 52:25
  Commonwealth wants it that way. And Commonwealth gets to hold on
• 52:30
  one second. Excuse me?
• 52:33
  I did a jump on this one so we don't have to wait for it.
• 52:40
  I'm going to take a break, OK? All right, was the.
• 52:44
  Session so I did that at it. All right.
• 52:52
  I think I was saying that you may be able to reach a
• 52:55
  stipulation. I don't know if you can if you
• 52:57
  can't, but I was, I think I was just about ready to say that the
• 53:01
  Commonwealth gets to within the bounds of the evidentiary
• 53:04
  bounds, gets to present their case.
• 53:09
  I appreciate the analogy to autopsy photos, and so let me go
• 53:12
  back and see if I can do something that's more palatable
• 53:15
  to the defense. That's frankly how I, I see it,
• 53:18
  see it. I mean, I understand the
• 53:19
  significance of the various items that we've just listed to
• 53:22
  the Commonwealth case, or I think I understand generally
• 53:24
  what the significance is to the Commonwealth case.
• 53:27
  So I'm inclined to let them have the photos that they're going to
• 53:30
  need to to make those arguments, but they don't need to be
• 53:35
  inflammatory. And so, yeah, just look through
• 53:38
  the lens of an autopsy photo. Thank you, Ron.
• 53:41
  I appreciate that. And I'll I'll work on it.
• 53:44
  All right. OK, so I'd love, I'd love your
• 53:49
  comments on that. I, I just love your comments on
• 53:52
  that. See what anybody Sharky Sharona
• 53:58
  is saying, he is creepy AF. Pammy saying she's beautiful,
• 54:03
  strong, ambitious, smart, kind, hard working.
• 54:09
  Yeah. Defense does not want anything
• 54:11
  to come in unless it helps them. Only.
• 54:13
  Sure. But you know what?
• 54:14
  That's what the defense should do.
• 54:17
  That's that's what they're arguing for.
• 54:19
  They want to be able to, they want to be able to get their
• 54:26
  client off, right? That's their job, Mooney says.
• 54:32
  It feels ick to me. Don't humanize the victim.
• 54:35
  Yeah, a little bit. Terry asked.
• 54:37
  Since her death, who has custody of the children?
• 54:39
  Has this man received the life insurance policy?
• 54:42
  Has there been a trust set up for the children?
• 54:45
  Did he set up how these children would be cared for?
• 54:47
  Now I believe, and yeah, I believe that Anna's mother or
• 54:56
  parents have the children. About the financial things, I
• 55:00
  don't know. I do not think that a life
• 55:04
  insurance policy would be paid out to a beneficiary who
• 55:07
  committed murder of that policy insured that that insured
• 55:13
  person. Oh, just Ducky saying State has
• 55:18
  the children. Her mom is trying to get them
• 55:20
  but is having visa issues. OK, so we're going to have to
• 55:23
  let me do a quick search on that, see if we can get an
• 55:25
  answer for it. Who has custody of Brian and
• 55:34
  Anna Walsh's children? Yeah, they are in the custody of
• 55:45
  the DCF, the Department of Children and Families, and I
• 55:52
  don't. The children were initially
• 55:57
  cared for by Brian Walsh's mother and a local relative
• 56:01
  before being placed with the DCF.
• 56:04
  The DCF has not provided specific details on the
• 56:07
  children's current location or foster placement due to privacy
• 56:11
  laws. And I don't see anything past
• 56:18
  like 2003, 2023, sorry that say specifically where where they
• 56:28
  are. So yeah, great question.
• 56:35
  Let's see, the kids were born. I think we found out it was
• 56:38
  2017. No, let's see, 2015.
• 56:46
  I think between 6:00 and 10:00 I think is where we are.
• 56:54
  Yeah, yeah. Sad for the kids for sure.
• 57:01
  The whole thing, the whole thing is just terrible.
• 57:04
  This guy, this monster, right? You think about that.
• 57:08
  Not only did he take away their mother, but through his actions,
• 57:14
  he took away their entire their entire life.
• 57:21
  You know, everything, everything that's normal to them is now
• 57:26
  gone because of his actions. And he thought he was smart
• 57:30
  enough thought he was so smart cut her up, take her to
• 57:35
  different places. It's just just wow, my goodness,
• 57:43
  so bad, so, so bad. All right, let's go to the next
• 57:50
  clip that I prepared. This one has to do with the
• 57:55
  federal monitoring. Remember he he has AGPS monitor
• 57:59
  from being federally indicted. I think here we go.
• 58:05
  Commonwealth's motion #12 to admit evidence concerning the
• 58:08
  defendant's federal charges, and the defense is opposing in part.
• 58:17
  I'll hear from the Commonwealth first on this one.
• 58:20
  Your Honor, we have actually attempted to develop a
• 58:23
  stipulation that Commonwealth had sent it to the defense and
• 58:26
  we haven't. I heard back as to whether that
• 58:28
  is something they wanted to stipulate to.
• 58:30
  We had been working on potentially reaching an
• 58:32
  agreement as to what information about the federal charges would
• 58:35
  come in. All right.
• 58:37
  Well, to aid you in your discussions, it, it seems to me,
• 58:42
  and this actually overlaps with regard to the one of the other
• 58:47
  motions with regard to the interviews.
• 58:54
  I understand the importance of the federal case in terms of the
• 58:57
  Commonwealth's argument with regard to motive and
• 59:05
  particularly the timeliness of certain information vis A vis
• 59:08
  the time that the Commonwealth indicates that they believe the
• 59:14
  defendant did the accident he's charged with.
• 59:17
  And the one area that I wanted to probe so that I have the
• 59:23
  information firmly in my mind, whether the what the evidentiary
• 59:27
  significance of it is, the weight of it versus the
• 59:31
  prejudice is the GPS. So it it my memory from prior
• 59:42
  proceedings on this case is that the GPS was not the way that the
• 59:48
  Commonwealth found out that Brian Walsh was at various
• 59:52
  places. That is correct Your Honor, it
• 59:54
  was not AGPS bracelet. What was it?
• 59:58
  It was in radio frequency bracelet that would go off if he
• 1:00:01
  went in a certain distance from the home and he would have
• 1:00:04
  allotted amount of time to leave the home to perform errands and
• 1:00:07
  drive the children. OK, so there's no evidentiary.
• 1:00:12
  There's nobody coming in and saying based on his bracelet, he
• 1:00:16
  was at XY and Z. They found that from the phone,
• 1:00:18
  right? That is correct.
• 1:00:19
  You're on. They found it through the 2
• 1:00:20
  phones. So that seems to me to be both
• 1:00:24
  in the transcripts and also just to the extent that it's in any
• 1:00:29
  of the federal papers as a condition of lease, highly
• 1:00:33
  prejudicial. And I'm not inclined to let the
• 1:00:36
  jury hear about that. It's not relevant to their
• 1:00:39
  decision making. And they may even if I give them
• 1:00:42
  a limiting instruction, may make it difficult for them to accept
• 1:00:49
  the limiting instruction doesn't have any evident true value.
• 1:00:54
  So anything with regard to both in the interviews which I know
• 1:00:59
  we were tabling for later on and or in the federal records, that
• 1:01:05
  seems to me to have very little evidentiary value to the
• 1:01:08
  Commonwealth and has a potential for prejudice to the defense.
• 1:01:13
  So that won't be in. Understanding you've made a
• 1:01:17
  ruling, can I make an attempt to change your mind?
• 1:01:20
  Sure. All right.
• 1:01:21
  Thank you, Your Honor. I appreciate, I appreciate you
• 1:01:23
  giving me this opportunity. So with the defendant's ability
• 1:01:28
  to have windows of time that allowed him freedom to leave
• 1:01:31
  from the house, it allows the Commonwealth to show the
• 1:01:37
  premeditated nature of this crime and that he had windows to
• 1:01:40
  clean up after the crime was occurred.
• 1:01:42
  That's a different thing though, the fact that he has windows of
• 1:01:47
  time that he or or certain parameters that he has to be at
• 1:01:51
  home. And that comes up in the
• 1:01:52
  interview at one point when Attorney Minor makes mention of
• 1:01:56
  that. And I don't know what we're
• 1:01:59
  doing with that yet, but but putting that to the side, I
• 1:02:03
  don't think that what you just said about Windows is the same
• 1:02:06
  thing as I'm saying about being on an electronic bracelet.
• 1:02:10
  OK, OK. Because I, I have think there's
• 1:02:13
  different prejudice that attaches to those two things.
• 1:02:16
  The fact that he had restrictions, that he was on
• 1:02:18
  federal supervised release and that he had some restrictions is
• 1:02:23
  going to be known to the jury. It's integral.
• 1:02:25
  So the case, but the fact that he's on an electronic at
• 1:02:29
  electronic monitoring bracelet is a different thing in my mind.
• 1:02:34
  Thank you, Ron. I understand your role.
• 1:02:36
  But keep on objecting as I know you will.
• 1:02:40
  But that's sort of the the dividing line that I'm drawing
• 1:02:43
  in my mind's eye right now. And keep on working on the
• 1:02:53
  stipulation. So I I think that she's I'm, I
• 1:03:01
  don't know, I think I think this is setting this case is being
• 1:03:05
  set up to favor the defense. If I'm going to be honest,
• 1:03:12
  that's what I think is happening here.
• 1:03:17
  I don't know. She probably has some legal
• 1:03:19
  reason, you know, some, some case law or something like that.
• 1:03:25
  But it does seem like this is this is favoring the defense as
• 1:03:31
  it goes along. Paper #199 is Commonwealth's
• 1:03:35
  motion eliminate number. This is my last clip, by the
• 1:03:38
  way. Then we'll do some final
• 1:03:39
  thoughts. 13 It's to admit the victims out of court statements,
• 1:03:46
  evidence of her state of mind and the defendant's motive to
• 1:03:49
  kill her Defendants is opposing it in part.
• 1:04:00
  I'll hear from the Commonwealth first.
• 1:04:04
  Thank you, Your Honor. The Commonwealth would seek to
• 1:04:05
  introduce the victims out of court statements to Alyssa Kirby
• 1:04:12
  and to Mr. Moutloo and to Mr. Fastow as to her state of mind,
• 1:04:22
  which was known to the defendant, Your Honor, certainly
• 1:04:25
  the defendant. The evidence will show that the
• 1:04:29
  victim had a meeting with a friend, Miss Kirby, on the 29th
• 1:04:34
  of December and told her about the big argument they had over
• 1:04:37
  Christmas. Give me a timeline because I
• 1:04:39
  want to have this in my head. She comes home on Christmas Day.
• 1:04:45
  Yes, Anna comes home on Christmas Day.
• 1:04:47
  She drives because she missed the flight.
• 1:04:50
  She spends much of the day driving and then she gets there
• 1:04:53
  on the afternoon evening of the 25th.
• 1:04:57
  Yes, Your Honor, I I believe it'd be around 8:00.
• 1:05:00
  When did she drive back? She leaves on the 26th of
• 1:05:08
  December. OK.
• 1:05:10
  And she drove back to DC. And she drove back to DC.
• 1:05:14
  And then she returns back to Boston by flight on the 30th.
• 1:05:18
  On the 30th. All right, that's helpful.
• 1:05:32
  All right, go ahead. Your Honor, on the 29th, when
• 1:05:34
  she's still in DC, the night before her return to Boston.
• 1:05:38
  Just so we know, driving from Boston to DC or vice versa is
• 1:05:44
  about a 7 hour drive. She goes out to dinner with her
• 1:05:49
  friend Alyssa Kirby and talks about the big fight that she and
• 1:05:52
  the defendant had and gives tells Alyssa.
• 1:05:56
  She'd been home for Christmas. Yes, over the Christmas break
• 1:06:00
  or, or the the day, the day that she's home, she tells her about
• 1:06:03
  that big fight, that she gave the defendant an ultimatum, that
• 1:06:06
  she had learned that the reason the children weren't with her
• 1:06:09
  was because of the defendant and his attorney.
• 1:06:11
  And that she had told him essentially to just resolve the
• 1:06:14
  case, even if it meant taking jail as a as a result.
• 1:06:17
  And I, I know Your Honor has reviewed the paperwork and it is
• 1:06:20
  a little more detailed, some of the grand jury.
• 1:06:23
  Your Honor, I would suggest that this is admissible because
• 1:06:25
  certainly it shows the victim's state of mind that she is
• 1:06:28
  prepared to do what she needs to do to take her children down to
• 1:06:31
  DC to be with her. She had a very highly
• 1:06:34
  compensated job. And I know Your Honor is
• 1:06:36
  familiar with the circumstances of her moving to DC without the
• 1:06:39
  defendant and the children. I suggest that that is certainly
• 1:06:42
  known to the defendant. He acknowledged and alluded to a
• 1:06:45
  big fight over Christmas in one of the in the recorded
• 1:06:48
  interviews and indeed said that he had learned after fighting
• 1:06:52
  with the victim previously over Christmas.
• 1:06:55
  And I believe he said Thanksgiving that he was not
• 1:06:58
  going to fight with her over her alleged need to return to
• 1:07:01
  Washington, DC for a work emergency suggests this is
• 1:07:04
  highly probative of the victim's state of mind and the
• 1:07:07
  defendant's motive to kill her. It also shows that he is aware
• 1:07:11
  of this. He's searching Mr. Fastow's
• 1:07:14
  name, he's searching for divorce, and he is conducting
• 1:07:19
  those searches in between. I believe the search for Mr.
• 1:07:23
  Fastow was on December 25th, and then he's searching for divorce,
• 1:07:27
  I believe on the 27th. His brother then hires the
• 1:07:30
  private investigator to investigate Anna's, whether
• 1:07:34
  she's behaving appropriately for a married woman.
• 1:07:36
  That's on the 28th. Certainly suggested.
• 1:07:38
  All of this is highly relevant to the victim's state of mind
• 1:07:42
  and the defendant's motive to kill her and what happened in
• 1:07:45
  that home on the 1st of January. And with Mr. Mutlu, there is
• 1:07:49
  some testimony about Anna. Walsh had had some conversations
• 1:07:54
  with him, I believe, on the 28th.
• 1:07:56
  And Mr. Mutlu's testimony is a bit indicating in some of his
• 1:08:01
  statements that some of it he might have learned from other
• 1:08:03
  people, but some of it he did learn from Anna.
• 1:08:06
  And certainly the Commonwealth would be very careful to make
• 1:08:08
  sure that we were only eliciting what he learned from Anna, not
• 1:08:11
  something he had heard from somebody else.
• 1:08:13
  And I suggest that that should all be admitted in this case.
• 1:08:16
  All right, defense, thank. You judge, the problem I have is
• 1:08:20
  the Commonwealth is also cherry picking parts of these
• 1:08:22
  conversations. The dinner that they're speaking
• 1:08:25
  about, her and her friend were out until 1:30 in the morning, a
• 1:08:29
  night that ended at a karaoke bar.
• 1:08:31
  So there was probably copious amounts of alcohol I would
• 1:08:34
  assume. But that goes to the way the
• 1:08:36
  jury chooses to give to it. But.
• 1:08:38
  In the context, I think it's important.
• 1:08:40
  The other thing that the Commonwealth didn't seek to
• 1:08:42
  introduce is the fact that Alyssa Kirby at the grand jury,
• 1:08:48
  excuse me, at her grand jury testimony, said that they had a
• 1:08:52
  very open and honest relationship and that Anna
• 1:08:56
  wanted him to do whatever he had to do so the family could be
• 1:09:00
  together. And further, she didn't say that
• 1:09:05
  she wanted a divorce or was going to leave him with this
• 1:09:07
  ultimatum. Specifically, Anna supposedly
• 1:09:10
  said to Alyssa Kirby that she wanted him to choose life
• 1:09:13
  because he had been so depressed.
• 1:09:16
  And even if he had to go to jail, that will be waiting for
• 1:09:19
  you when you get out. So I think they're not only
• 1:09:22
  cherry picking what portions of this conversation they want to
• 1:09:25
  put in, they're overstating the relevance, especially in light
• 1:09:27
  of the case law. When you look at the cases that
• 1:09:30
  talk about state of mind, they cite Castano.
• 1:09:33
  That was a situation in which the witness had told the
• 1:09:37
  defendant in that case that she wanted to end the relationship,
• 1:09:41
  that she had rejected his anniversary presence, not only
• 1:09:45
  was ending the relationship but has packed up his bags and when
• 1:09:48
  the police responded to the scene, there was in fact a
• 1:09:50
  packed suitcase of the defendant's items at the door.
• 1:09:54
  That is not what we have here, let alone to that level.
• 1:09:57
  In Martin, the the statements that the government was seeking
• 1:10:01
  to introduce were basically a statement in history of physical
• 1:10:06
  abuse, violence, of her trying to take the children from him.
• 1:10:09
  That is not what we have here. Half of the conversation to Miss
• 1:10:13
  Kirby was how she wanted her family together.
• 1:10:15
  They had an open relationship, couples fight so to say.
• 1:10:18
  They had a big fight on a date. She was late for Christmas and
• 1:10:21
  they had three children. This was not earth shattering
• 1:10:24
  motive to kill information. So I don't think it's fair that
• 1:10:28
  these conversations with Alyssa Kirby come in.
• 1:10:31
  And certainly if the court does see value in those statements as
• 1:10:34
  the case develops, then the doctrine of verbal completeness,
• 1:10:37
  Wood forest the court to allow all those statements to come in
• 1:10:41
  because this was one conversation.
• 1:10:44
  So that would be our position with respect to Alyssa Kirby.
• 1:10:47
  With respect to Jem, I think there needs to be either a
• 1:10:50
  Vladir or clearing up of what he heard from other witnesses and
• 1:10:55
  what he specifically heard from Anna.
• 1:10:59
  And again, Mr. Mutlow was with them on New Year's Eve into the
• 1:11:05
  1st of January until about one 1:30 in the morning.
• 1:11:09
  And he's also described the night is joyous, that they had a
• 1:11:13
  happy marriage. The federal case had been going
• 1:11:15
  on since 2018. They had been weathering this
• 1:11:18
  storm. And so again, if they're seeking
• 1:11:21
  to introduce statements, I think that the full conversation would
• 1:11:25
  come in to show the context. And we need to figure out what
• 1:11:29
  exactly Mr. Mutlow heard directly from Anna.
• 1:11:33
  All right, So let me give you some guideposts.
• 1:11:42
  The defense and its opposition sites to Qualls, which is sort
• 1:11:47
  of one of the earlier and Seminole cases on state of mind
• 1:11:50
  evidence. And but I'm not persuaded by the
• 1:11:56
  defense's argument with regard to what Qualls stands for in
• 1:12:00
  light of Castano and in light of which, for the record, Castano
• 1:12:04
  is at 470-9478, masks, 75A2017 case.
• 1:12:09
  And also look at Commonwealth versus bins, BINS that can be
• 1:12:15
  found at 465 masks 348 A 2013. This is like the first time
• 1:12:21
  where they're like, hey, check this case law, check this case
• 1:12:24
  law, check this case law. I actually, again, I do think
• 1:12:33
  this does end in the defense's favor, but this judge seems
• 1:12:37
  very, I guess, reticent to have anything prejudicial in front of
• 1:12:45
  this jury. In case at head notes 17 through
• 1:12:48
  22 under that case law and other cases that I looked at, it is
• 1:12:57
  very likely that I'm going to allow Anna Walsh's statements to
• 1:13:01
  Alyssa Kirby, the limited purpose of establishing her
• 1:13:05
  state of mind as is relevant to the defendant's motive to kill
• 1:13:10
  his wife. To the extent that such state of
• 1:13:13
  mind, state of mind evidence includes statements describing
• 1:13:20
  his defendants prior bad acts as federal case on his statements
• 1:13:25
  will be admitted and with a limiting instruction that it is
• 1:13:29
  limited to show the defendant's motive and not to show that he
• 1:13:32
  had a bad character or propensity to commit any other
• 1:13:35
  criminal offenses, there's limiting instruction.
• 1:13:38
  Which is really interesting because he did have a bad
• 1:13:40
  character and he did have all sorts of things to show that he
• 1:13:44
  had a propensity to this. That is posited by the court,
• 1:13:51
  the SJC and Benz on the bottom of top of page 419.
• 1:13:57
  Take a look at it. That's what I'm likely going to
• 1:14:00
  give you. I think that the parties need to
• 1:14:06
  do a little bit more work with Jim and they will as the
• 1:14:10
  Commonwealth gets ready to preps him for his trial testimony and
• 1:14:14
  obviously be in touch with the defense with regard to what that
• 1:14:19
  pretrial work reveals with regard to statements that were
• 1:14:23
  made directly to him from Anna as opposed to 3rd party, other
• 1:14:28
  evidence that would not be admissible.
• 1:14:30
  Yes, Ronna, with respect to William Fasto, there's one
• 1:14:34
  notable exclusion or sustained. You're going to hear the
• 1:14:43
  statement that she makes to Mr. Fasto about she doesn't know
• 1:14:47
  what the defendant would do if you were to find out about the
• 1:14:52
  affair, is not her state of mind evidence and is not admissible
• 1:14:57
  and is prejudicial. So don't go there.
• 1:15:01
  Yes, you are. And then, of course, with regard
• 1:15:05
  to the doctrine of completeness, I think the defense has an
• 1:15:07
  argument there. And so I'm inclined to let them
• 1:15:11
  bring in the other statements, and you can oppose it if you
• 1:15:15
  want, But that's sort of the guideposts that I'm setting
• 1:15:18
  right now. Understood.
• 1:15:23
  I think paper number. One oops, I think that's that's
• 1:15:25
  about it. So I think what I take from this
• 1:15:28
  guys is that the defense got they're being set up to be able
• 1:15:34
  to rigorously and successfully defend their client.
• 1:15:37
  Now I'm hoping that a jury will see see all the evidence and go,
• 1:15:46
  no, no, you're guilty and you need to go.
• 1:15:51
  That's what I'm hoping. Let's see a couple more comments
• 1:15:54
  from you guys and then we will finish up with three questions.
• 1:16:00
  Let's see. Julie asks.
• 1:16:03
  I hope or says I hope you will come to crime Con in Vegas.
• 1:16:06
  Would be fun to meet you. I have applied to come to the US
• 1:16:10
  Crime Con. I have.
• 1:16:13
  I've applied a few times before and I haven't made it in for
• 1:16:17
  some reason. I, I don't know.
• 1:16:20
  I've got some people behind the scenes, including my buddy
• 1:16:23
  Cheryl and Dale, that is, that is kind of advocating on my
• 1:16:29
  behalf. So hopefully, hopefully I will
• 1:16:32
  be at Crime Con. Julie Martino also says as a
• 1:16:36
  jury, I wouldn't care if she had an affair.
• 1:16:39
  Yeah, a lot of people share your share, share your thought there.
• 1:16:51
  See if a couple more that come in that the one place I don't
• 1:16:56
  want to visit in the US is Vegas.
• 1:16:57
  Yeah, I Las Vegas is my least favorite place.
• 1:17:00
  I used to have to go there at least once a year and I just, I
• 1:17:06
  just don't really like it. However, I would like to go to
• 1:17:08
  crime con so and I'm not sure where they're holding it in
• 1:17:11
  Vegas that makes a difference. Let me take a look at it.
• 1:17:16
  Crime con Vegas venue. What's the venue?
• 1:17:22
  It is Caesar's Palace. I mean, I'd almost rather be
• 1:17:28
  shot, not dead, just like a flesh wound.
• 1:17:30
  But I, I will go if they if they are keen to let me be there,
• 1:17:38
  Tiff says. Are they able to get in his art
• 1:17:41
  fraud? I believe so, yes.
• 1:17:43
  Yes, that is going to happen. Las Vegas Medi Petty Spa says
• 1:17:50
  Vegas is good to me. Yeah, I just I just it's not my
• 1:17:54
  favorite place in the world. Now I lived in Reno.
• 1:17:57
  We did our whole family. We lived in Reno for three
• 1:18:00
  years. Loved it, loved it.
• 1:18:01
  And we've got family in Vegas. In fact, John Fish Jewelers
• 1:18:04
  there on Sahara was founded by my great uncle, my great uncle
• 1:18:09
  Jack and I love going to see my dad's cousins and plus I kind of
• 1:18:14
  wanted John Fish watch. So anyway, let's see.
• 1:18:20
  You can do what Chris McDonough did and not have a booth.
• 1:18:23
  They just walked around and met everyone.
• 1:18:24
  Maybe I do something like that. Maybe I do something like that.
• 1:18:27
  That actually, that actually sounds nice not to have to be
• 1:18:31
  tied to the table. So maybe Kimberly and I would
• 1:18:33
  would do that, see if anything, let's see Judy is done with
• 1:18:42
  crime Con. Wow.
• 1:18:46
  OK, Anyway, who? All right, let's let's do three
• 1:18:51
  questions, shall we? Here we go.
• 1:18:54
  It's three questions with Gavin Fish.
• 1:19:03
  Pow. OK, let's see our three
• 1:19:06
  questions. By the way, three questions with
• 1:19:07
  Gavin Fish. You can send your questions to
• 1:19:11
  three questions at gavinfish.com.
• 1:19:13
  This is just something we like to do fun at the end of the live
• 1:19:17
  stream just to talk about stuff. Hopefully that's a little less
• 1:19:24
  deflating than murder. And maybe we we talk about
• 1:19:27
  things that are that are a little bit more uplifting.
• 1:19:32
  I can't remember what our questions were.
• 1:19:34
  First question, what things little or big do you feel hold
• 1:19:37
  your beautiful long term love story together?
• 1:19:40
  What has gotten you through you 2 through challenges?
• 1:19:43
  Well, OK, first of all, professional quibble here.
• 1:19:47
  That is 2 questions. That's a two-part question, but
• 1:19:51
  I'll allow it. OK, so the question is what
• 1:19:56
  things little or big do you feel hold your beautiful long term
• 1:19:58
  love story together? What has gotten you 2 through
• 1:20:01
  challenges? OK, sure.
• 1:20:05
  Our secret to a long and happy marriage is very simple.
• 1:20:08
  And this, this is something that we do with our children.
• 1:20:10
  OK, so we have basically 2 batches of children.
• 1:20:16
  We have our olders and our littles.
• 1:20:18
  That's what we call them. There's a little less than a 10
• 1:20:21
  year gap between child #3 and child #4 So we have 3 olders, we
• 1:20:26
  have two littles. So we've done it, but we've done
• 1:20:28
  the same with both of them. So what we would tell them is
• 1:20:33
  like, let's take our littles, right?
• 1:20:34
  If our littles are fighting, we have a little boy and a little
• 1:20:38
  girl. And if they're fighting, we will
• 1:20:40
  stop. And we will say, hey, we'll say
• 1:20:42
  to our son, what is your job? And he goes, they hate that
• 1:20:49
  question. What is your job to make her
• 1:20:52
  happy? OK, then we go over to our
• 1:20:54
  daughter. What's your job to make him
• 1:20:57
  happy? OK, we'll do your job.
• 1:21:00
  That's what we do and that's, that's what Kimberly and I do.
• 1:21:04
  We just my job is to make her happy.
• 1:21:07
  Her job is to make my make me happy.
• 1:21:10
  And we both work hard at our jobs.
• 1:21:12
  We're and then like in order to receive forgiveness and grace
• 1:21:24
  from other people, you have to extend that, right?
• 1:21:28
  So when I'm not at my best, she remembers what I look like when
• 1:21:34
  I am. And when she's not at her best,
• 1:21:37
  which hardly ever I, I can't even think of a time.
• 1:21:43
  But if it does happen in the future, I will just remember
• 1:21:47
  that what she is like when she's at her absolute best, when she's
• 1:21:52
  at her worst. Did I say that right?
• 1:21:54
  Anyway, you know what I mean? Just like don't just extend a
• 1:21:58
  lot of grace, a lot of forgiveness and be happy
• 1:22:01
  together. We laugh a lot.
• 1:22:03
  I am a big tease. And she is someone who can take
• 1:22:10
  it and just rolls her eyes and kind of goes with the punches.
• 1:22:15
  Yeah, we, that's how our relationship is.
• 1:22:18
  We just, we just have a lot of fun together.
• 1:22:20
  We like to spend as much time as we can with one another.
• 1:22:23
  We do kind of each one of us has expectations of ourselves and
• 1:22:30
  each other in our relationship and we hold ourselves to those.
• 1:22:37
  And then when we when we mess up or we don't quite live up to it,
• 1:22:41
  the other is just very forgiving and it's that easy.
• 1:22:44
  My job is to make her happy. Her job is to make me happy.
• 1:22:47
  She's very good at her job. I do OK and it's that easy.
• 1:22:53
  It is that easy. What has gotten us to through
• 1:23:00
  challenges, you know, when we lived in Reno, we, we had a
• 1:23:06
  really hard time because we had, we had gotten to Reno.
• 1:23:12
  I don't want to like I'm not going to give tons of details on
• 1:23:15
  this, but what had happened is we had sold a business, we had
• 1:23:18
  sold a couple homes and we had lots of cash and we had lots of
• 1:23:23
  credit. And we used that to start a
• 1:23:26
  business in Reno. And that that business was
• 1:23:31
  unsuccessful very quickly and got us, it didn't get us.
• 1:23:35
  We got ourselves deep into debt. So we went through all of our
• 1:23:39
  cash, got ourselves deep into debt.
• 1:23:42
  That made me have to look for a job.
• 1:23:46
  And the only thing that I could find at the time was like
• 1:23:49
  mortgage banking. And you know, she was her, her
• 1:23:55
  craft is fitness, but you can only teach so many classes in a
• 1:23:59
  week without I mean, your body has limits, right?
• 1:24:02
  So, but she, she got a job waitressing at Denny's.
• 1:24:07
  So she's working 2 very demanding physical jobs.
• 1:24:12
  And then I got a second job, first as a cab driver, then as a
• 1:24:15
  limo driver. At night I was working.
• 1:24:20
  During the day I was working five days a week, and at night I
• 1:24:23
  was working 4. I was getting something like 4
• 1:24:26
  1/2 to five hours of sleep a day, maybe another hour during
• 1:24:29
  my lunch break, and she was working, I mean, almost, almost
• 1:24:35
  as much. It was very, very tough.
• 1:24:38
  Now I don't know what we did to get ourselves through the
• 1:24:42
  challenges other than depend on one another.
• 1:24:46
  What she was doing was super important.
• 1:24:48
  What I was doing was super important and we just worked
• 1:24:50
  hard together. And you know, the same thing is
• 1:24:53
  kind of happened out here in Pennsylvania when, when COVID
• 1:24:57
  hit, you know, my, my clientele withered away because they were
• 1:25:04
  forced to close their doors. And we had to, we had to think
• 1:25:09
  quickly. And we started this YouTube
• 1:25:12
  channel and I went to work as a reporter and Kimberly, who is
• 1:25:17
  teaching a lot of lot of fitness classes, went back to
• 1:25:20
  waitressing. And we just, you know, it's just
• 1:25:22
  been in the last maybe three or four months that we're able to
• 1:25:26
  finally have our noses above water.
• 1:25:28
  But we just work well together. We depend on one another.
• 1:25:32
  My job is to make her happy. Her job is to make me happy.
• 1:25:34
  And together, hopefully we make our kiddos happy.
• 1:25:38
  That's, that's it. That is it.
• 1:25:44
  Question #2 What's the hardest truth you've ever had to accept
• 1:25:47
  about yourself? Oh, wow, is surviving the
• 1:25:55
  survivor here tonight? Oh my goodness, you guys look at
• 1:26:02
  this. Thank you so much, Joel and
• 1:26:05
  Carm. You guys are amazing.
• 1:26:07
  Thank you very much for that. OK, so the question is, what's
• 1:26:11
  the hardest truth you've ever had to accept about yourself?
• 1:26:14
  OK. So I am a pretty introspective
• 1:26:17
  person, and I try really hard to be honest with myself and
• 1:26:22
  understand. I mean, today Kimberly and I had
• 1:26:24
  a conversation about, about, you know, the stuff that we're doing
• 1:26:29
  together, the the hard work that we're doing and what does, what
• 1:26:32
  does success look like and everything.
• 1:26:34
  And it was one of those moments where I had to have like, oh, my
• 1:26:37
  goodness. Yeah, which are very difficult
• 1:26:38
  for me. I think when I was a young man
• 1:26:40
  though before before learning to do my weekly.
• 1:26:45
  I call them self inventories before learning to.
• 1:26:51
  Do that. I do them every Sunday night.
• 1:26:53
  I do self inventory. I kind of.
• 1:26:55
  Check to see who I am, See if I like who I am.
• 1:26:58
  See the kind of things that I want to improve.
• 1:27:00
  Give myself attaboys for the things that I like about myself.
• 1:27:04
  But before I started doing that or was taught to do that, I
• 1:27:08
  really was kind of a cocky full of myself, really too confident
• 1:27:17
  for my actual abilities kind of a kid.
• 1:27:19
  Now that was by design a little bit my my parents always said
• 1:27:23
  that it's way easier to bring your kids down a couple notches
• 1:27:27
  than it is to build them up. And so they worked hard to build
• 1:27:30
  up our confidence, all of us kids.
• 1:27:33
  And, and they're right, I mean it, it is way easier to to knock
• 1:27:39
  a child down than it is to build a child up, right.
• 1:27:42
  So I was cocky and arrogant and self confident by design my
• 1:27:51
  parents designed. It that way and they did a very.
• 1:27:55
  Good job of it. Now when I finally actually was
• 1:28:01
  probably at Reno, it's probably in Reno when that company failed
• 1:28:05
  that I experienced my very first actual failure.
• 1:28:10
  And we've talked about this on the channel before that it's not
• 1:28:12
  that I'm just good at everything.
• 1:28:14
  It's that I'm fearful of failure so much that I tend not to do
• 1:28:18
  anything that I that I don't believe that I will do well.
• 1:28:23
  And that and that is a personality flaw for sure.
• 1:28:27
  But I think it was in Reno when we had that giant, colossal
• 1:28:31
  failure that I realized not you're you're you're just not as
• 1:28:38
  cool as you think you are. I think that's.
• 1:28:43
  Yeah. So the hardest truth I ever had
• 1:28:45
  to face is you're not as great as you think you are.
• 1:28:47
  Gavin, pull her back a little bit, will you?
• 1:28:52
  Last question of three questions.
• 1:28:54
  And remember, send them to three questions.
• 1:28:55
  At gavinfish.com, I love these questions.
• 1:28:58
  If you could erase 1 memory, would you?
• 1:29:00
  And if so, which one? Ah, no.
• 1:29:05
  I don't think I would erase any memories.
• 1:29:08
  I think there are things that I and, and I was about to say,
• 1:29:13
  there are things that I regret. I don't regret anything.
• 1:29:16
  I grieve some things I with regret.
• 1:29:22
  It feels like that is an emotion that is wasted and there's
• 1:29:26
  nothing you can do about it anyway.
• 1:29:29
  So just learn from that mistake and do better next time.
• 1:29:33
  That's that's how I think about. However, there are some things
• 1:29:35
  that I grieve that I wish I would have done differently or I
• 1:29:40
  wish I wouldn't have done or I wish I would have done.
• 1:29:43
  There's a lot of that stuff. Some of them I I still grieve,
• 1:29:49
  right? I'm, I'm really sad at my
• 1:29:52
  behavior. And you know, there's, there's a
• 1:29:54
  person that I'm really hoping someday I'll be able to have a
• 1:29:58
  conversation with. And if that person ever, ever,
• 1:30:04
  like asks for a defense of my behavior, all I'll be able to
• 1:30:10
  say is that there is no defense other than the del holidness of
• 1:30:14
  youth. Right.
• 1:30:16
  I'm, I'm really sorry for the way I behaved, but I I don't
• 1:30:21
  want to erase the memory. Never, never, never.
• 1:30:24
  Yeah, a couple comments before we call it a day.
• 1:30:29
  Let's see. Thanks again to.
• 1:30:32
  Joel and Carm and the. Coe doesn't look like, yeah, it
• 1:30:39
  doesn't look like anything else came in.
• 1:30:41
  So pretty great. I mean, Dashiell said.
• 1:30:45
  Gavin, I love that. I think you're talking probably
• 1:30:47
  about the what is your job? Yeah, that's that's what I like.
• 1:30:55
  That's how we do it. Let's see if there's anything
• 1:30:59
  else. My best failure was a three
• 1:31:03
  series. Was a three series.
• 1:31:07
  OK, Mooney, you're most welcome. I guess that's it for tonight,
• 1:31:12
  guys. And we've been going for a
• 1:31:13
  while. So let's call it.
• 1:31:14
  Thank you very much for being here.
• 1:31:16
  Thanks for surviving the survivor for joining us tonight.
• 1:31:19
  Joel, by the way, I sent you an e-mail a little bit earlier
• 1:31:23
  today. I hope that you see it and maybe
• 1:31:25
  we can chat about that in the next few days.
• 1:31:29
  Karen says, hey Gavin, it's my 59th birthday today.
• 1:31:33
  Karen, happy birthday. That is terrific.
• 1:31:38
  And I'm looking at your little little, and I'm not just saying
• 1:31:41
  this. I'm looking at your avatar, your
• 1:31:45
  icon there. And you may be the most
• 1:31:47
  beautiful 59 year old I've ever seen.
• 1:31:50
  Wow, just stunning. I hope you have a terrific day.
• 1:31:54
  I hope it has been awesome surviving the survivor says I
• 1:32:01
  got an e-mail back already. Sweet.
• 1:32:04
  Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
• 1:32:06
  All right guys, Happy birthday to Karen.
• 1:32:09
  May you all just have a terrific evening.
• 1:32:11
  We will see each other again tomorrow night, 7:30 PM Eastern
• 1:32:14
  Time right here on this channel. Remember Wednesday, we are not
• 1:32:17
  going to be together. Please remember to head on over
• 1:32:20
  to gavinfish.com if you ever want to reach out to me for
• 1:32:23
  anything other than three questions for three questions.
• 1:32:26
  It's three questions. Again, I didn't do the ultra,
• 1:32:28
  it's 3 questions. How I need a better outro?
• 1:32:39
  I need one to be an intro, one to be an.
• 1:32:40
  Outro. But anyway, head on over.
• 1:32:42
  To gavinfish.com, if you ever want to reach out to me, there
• 1:32:45
  is this little icon right here. And of course, you can interact
• 1:32:48
  with me over on the Fish tank on Facebook.
• 1:32:50
  If you're on Facebook, you are cordially, hereby cordially
• 1:32:54
  invited to join us in the tank. With that, I bid you, I do.
• 1:32:58
  Thank you very much for being here.
• 1:33:00
  Thank you very much for watching this video.
• 1:33:03
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• 1:33:06
  And if you have any questions or comments, please leave them
• 1:33:09
  below.