Latest / Doug Has Questions / Episode 42: Shelby Steiner; How A Fashion Designer Builds Gear That Works

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Episode 42: Shelby Steiner; How A Fashion Designer Builds Gear That Works · Doug Has Questions

• 0:00
  Douglas: Welcome to this episode of Doug Has Questions.
• 0:03
  Douglas: Today, my guest is Shelby Steiner, fashion designer, I guess, is the best description for you, Shelby.
• 0:09
  Shelby: Yeah, that's right.
• 0:10
  Douglas: Kind of former Haynes resident for a few years, now back on a visit, and hopefully you continue coming back to grace us with your presence.
• 0:18
  Douglas: Indeed.
• 0:18
  Douglas: So before before we got started, I got a little a small little gift for you.
• 0:22
  Shelby: Thank you.
• 0:23
  Douglas: Have your morning coffee there.
• 0:24
  Douglas: So you have to now you have to have answers.
• 0:27
  Shelby: Oh, I will have answers.
• 0:29
  Douglas: Plenty of answers.
• 0:29
  Douglas: Plenty of answers.
• 0:30
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 0:32
  Douglas: So we we first met, I think you'd been in Haynes a year or so, and you came into the store like, hey, I want to help you redesign the store.
• 0:40
  Douglas: Looking for a job.
• 0:42
  Douglas: And by the time we agreed to what we're gonna do, you had another job and we never got to do it.
• 0:46
  Shelby: Yeah, sorry about that.
• 0:47
  Shelby: Um that's kind of like the story of my life, actually, which is interesting based on where I'm at currently, because I think the main thing I've been seeking is stability, which I had for like eight years in corporate, but then I don't know, post-COVID things went rogue.
• 1:03
  Shelby: I wound up in Haynes, Alaska.
• 1:06
  Douglas: A lot of things went rogue during COVID and post-COVID.
• 1:09
  Shelby: Yeah, so um I don't know.
• 1:12
  Shelby: I think that I've always kind of been open-minded to various roles, and like I've been a hustler since I was a little kid.
• 1:18
  Shelby: Like I was like, oh Mom, you want to pay me to mow the yard?
• 1:21
  Shelby: Give me the money.
• 1:22
  Shelby: I'll stay in the deck, I'll be a lifeguard, I worked at a tanning salon, I worked retail.
• 1:27
  Douglas: Um we'll get into all that.
• 1:28
  Douglas: But that but it was when I was talking to you and you're telling me some of the things that you had done up till then.
• 1:34
  Douglas: Well, like, damn, there's no way that you're old enough to have done all this stuff.
• 1:39
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:39
  Shelby: I think I've always been an achiever.
• 1:41
  Shelby: Which I'm trying to do less of, actually.
• 1:44
  Douglas: Less achievement?
• 1:45
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Douglas: Well, you think it could be a lot already.
• 1:48
  Shelby: It can be problematic, actually.
• 1:49
  Shelby: It can be.
• 1:50
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:50
  Douglas: If you're always trying to get that next that next thing.
• 1:53
  Douglas: That's like one of my always another next thing.
• 1:56
  Shelby: Yeah, biggest lessons, I think.
• 1:57
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:59
  Douglas: And I let's let's go back to we'll get back to this.
• 2:02
  Douglas: Well, let's go back to Jelby's childhood.
• 2:04
  Douglas: Ooh.
• 2:05
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 2:05
  Douglas: Grew up in Iowa.
• 2:06
  Douglas: Right?
• 2:08
  Shelby: I was born in Arizona until I was seven, and that's when I moved to rural Iowa.
• 2:12
  Shelby: Okay.
• 2:12
  Shelby: And um, I think I was just bored.
• 2:16
  Shelby: Um, I mean, actually, I grew up in a town very similar to Haynes.
• 2:18
  Shelby: I don't mean that that's boring by any means.
• 2:19
  Shelby: But I think it was just more like 2,000 people, all we had was cornfields.
• 2:24
  Shelby: There was no fashion, and I would just like I don't know how maybe during my parents' divorce, I became uh obsessed with this concept of being a fashion designer, and it never left me.
• 2:33
  Douglas: And so how old were you when your parents divorced?
• 2:35
  Douglas: Seven.
• 2:36
  Douglas: Seven.
• 2:36
  Douglas: So that was the reason you moved to Iowa?
• 2:38
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 2:38
  Shelby: Okay.
• 2:39
  Douglas: So mom moved back to Iowa?
• 2:41
  Shelby: Yep.
• 2:41
  Shelby: Me and my brother.
• 2:42
  Douglas: Moved back to Iowa with mom.
• 2:43
  Douglas: Is that her hometown then?
• 2:45
  Shelby: Yep.
• 2:45
  Douglas: Okay.
• 2:46
  Shelby: Yep.
• 2:46
  Shelby: Um, Manson, Iowa, where uh Greater Crater Days takes place.
• 2:51
  Shelby: It was apparently was hit by a meteorite that um killed the dinosaurs and was on all the U-Haul trucks forever, and then that was debunked.
• 2:58
  Shelby: But the town is in a crater, so I don't know, like tons of really cool, interesting people.
• 3:04
  Shelby: I mean, like some of my very best friends to this day are from that town.
• 3:07
  Shelby: I think I just had so much spare time that I was just always dreaming and imagining, and like, I don't know.
• 3:12
  Shelby: I went to college in high school.
• 3:14
  Shelby: I was like, so I had a year done of college while I was still in high school.
• 3:17
  Shelby: I don't know.
• 3:17
  Douglas: Were you big into dolls and everything when you're a kid?
• 3:19
  Douglas: Do you think it was that kind of the impetus to get into fashion?
• 3:22
  Douglas: Or is it just something you read in magazines, watching TV?
• 3:28
  Shelby: Great question.
• 3:28
  Shelby: I didn't really have access to anything.
• 3:30
  Shelby: Like there was a town next to ours which it was called it's called Fort Dodge, but they had like a mall, right, where we had access to some things, but like during that era, I think everyone was stoked on like Hollister and some of the like Abercrombie, but we didn't have those stores.
• 3:44
  Shelby: So I think that's where I don't know, our closest thing was like the buckle.
• 3:48
  Shelby: I don't even know if anybody knows what these things are, but Maurice's, there was like Yonkers, like all these kind of Midwest stores, and so I would just kind of like emulate things that I could online um with whatever I could find.
• 4:00
  Douglas: So at seven, does your mom have like a sewing machine and you start playing playing around, starting to make your own stuff?
• 4:07
  Shelby: I was making outfits for Barbies out of wash rags and I don't know, weird things.
• 4:12
  Shelby: I was drawing like elaborate hats and eyelashes and shoes while the other kids were doing stick figures.
• 4:17
  Shelby: Like, I don't know.
• 4:17
  Shelby: That's what my mom tells me, at least.
• 4:18
  Shelby: And I guess my preschool teacher said, uh, if she becomes a fashion designer, tell me.
• 4:23
  Shelby: And so when I graduated high school, um, my mom invited her to my graduation.
• 4:28
  Douglas: Nice.
• 4:29
  Shelby: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:30
  Douglas: So that was just you were all in on that from a very young age that this is what you wanted to be.
• 4:35
  Shelby: Yeah, I think that's why I hauled ass in college or in high school so I could get to college.
• 4:40
  Shelby: And so I already had all my like, you know, I don't know, entry-level like bio or biology, sociology, psychology done so I could start fashion design.
• 4:51
  Douglas: Year one.
• 4:52
  Douglas: Did you do anything?
• 4:53
  Douglas: Did you do any sports, cheerleading, anything like that in high school, or was it all I was bad at all of it.
• 4:57
  Douglas: I'm getting school, I'm getting school done so I can get into what I really want to love.
• 5:01
  Shelby: All of it, and I don't even know why I did it.
• 5:03
  Shelby: I was not invested.
• 5:04
  Shelby: I just was like participating.
• 5:05
  Shelby: But I think I was trying to find my place and I was friends with like everybody, but I was very introverted, which is funny that I am quite extroverted now and I'll talk to anyone.
• 5:14
  Shelby: But it took me a long time to kind of harness that confidence.
• 5:18
  Shelby: And um, I actually think Haynes was a big part of that for me, truly.
• 5:22
  Shelby: Um, and finding myself again because I came here thinking I was going to do other things.
• 5:26
  Shelby: I know I'm jumping the gun on this conversation, but so we can we can bounce we bounce all over the place.
• 5:32
  Douglas: Wherever it goes, we can we can go back and and start doing that.
• 5:36
  Douglas: Yeah, but so you felt you were still introverted when you got to Haynes?
• 5:39
  Shelby: Um I think it was just like a lack of shell a little bit, a lack of self-trust.
• 5:44
  Shelby: And I think a lack of even though like I think that I sometimes people can appear to be confident, I don't know as if they always fully believe that deep down.
• 5:52
  Shelby: I think that's where that achiever mindset came into play for me.
• 5:55
  Shelby: Um I can relate to that.
• 5:57
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Douglas: Always feel that you have to prove yourself.
• 5:59
  Shelby: Yes, and a little bit of imposter syndrome.
• 6:02
  Shelby: And so um, yeah, I think I started writing a book actually after I um left Haynes.
• 6:09
  Shelby: I kind of started it during Haynes a little bit, but I didn't really dive into it because I had a lot of reflections I needed to do, and I think that's when I decided I wanted to coach other women and young designers because and help guide them on a lot of the mistakes that I made previously that I wish I could do differently.
• 6:25
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 6:26
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 6:27
  Douglas: How's the book come along?
• 6:28
  Shelby: I hired an editor who's been amazing.
• 6:30
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 6:31
  Shelby: Yep.
• 6:32
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 6:33
  Shelby: So um he's helped guide me a lot.
• 6:35
  Shelby: Um, but the book is coming along.
• 6:37
  Shelby: I was going to publish in May, but I needed more time because he basically convinced me to write a memoir instead of a playbook.
• 6:43
  Shelby: Because it's called the Apparel Designer Playbook.
• 6:45
  Douglas: Okay.
• 6:45
  Shelby: And uh So I just get a little bit more of the Shelby story and yeah, but I weave in different like life lessons into um each chapter, kind of.
• 6:55
  Shelby: So there's more personal narrative and then also some of the the key lessons.
• 6:59
  Douglas: But so when when do you have an estimated published date now?
• 7:03
  Shelby: I'm not it's not like pressing for me at the moment.
• 7:06
  Shelby: I think it was more therapeutic, and then I was like, oh, this is actually kind of good.
• 7:09
  Shelby: There's something here, but I didn't really know until I kept diving deeper.
• 7:13
  Shelby: And I'm like in chapter 15 right now.
• 7:14
  Shelby: I'm doing 20.
• 7:15
  Shelby: So I'm actually just getting to the part of Alaska in my book.
• 7:19
  Douglas: Okay.
• 7:19
  Shelby: I mean, I wrote some chapters on it, but it's not refined, so yeah.
• 7:24
  Douglas: So I'd uh you graduate high school, you've got a year of college prereqs already done.
• 7:29
  Douglas: Yep.
• 7:30
  Douglas: Where'd you go for design, study fashion design?
• 7:32
  Shelby: I went to Columbia College in Chicago.
• 7:35
  Shelby: I actually was going to go to Iowa State, and I just I went to their fashion show and it just didn't feel right for me.
• 7:40
  Shelby: I think I wanted, I don't know, I had this idea of the city, but I didn't really know what that meant.
• 7:45
  Shelby: And my dad tried really hard to talk me out of it because he was a very smart businessman and he is, and he uh asked me to not take out a massive loan, and I did anyway, which hurt.
• 7:57
  Shelby: And uh so then I was going to go to Minneapolis where I was going to study merchandising, and I was like, I want to do design.
• 8:04
  Shelby: They didn't offer design.
• 8:05
  Shelby: And so my stepdad drove me to Chicago for one weekend.
• 8:08
  Shelby: We were going to visit the sister school of the Minneapolis um location, and convocation, like their big celebration was happening at Columbia College, and we just had been staying on that same street.
• 8:18
  Shelby: We walked past it, and I'm like, I'm going here.
• 8:21
  Douglas: Really?
• 8:21
  Shelby: Yes.
• 8:22
  Shelby: I could just feel it.
• 8:23
  Shelby: That's how you found that's how I found Columbia College.
• 8:25
  Shelby: I'm not even joking.
• 8:26
  Douglas: You didn't know about it before?
• 8:28
  Shelby: No, I didn't go there to visit it, and I just walked past, and it was like they had the runway show going on and all the windows, and and uh they're quite famous actually for photography, film, fashion.
• 8:37
  Douglas: So but you had no plans of being there, you just happened because your hotel was close by.
• 8:43
  Shelby: That sounds so bad, but it's true.
• 8:45
  Douglas: No, it's it's for for me, I like stories like that.
• 8:49
  Shelby: There was no strategy.
• 8:50
  Douglas: It's it's it's it's a reminder to just always keep your head up and look around because you don't know what inspiration, what what your anytime something could strike that's gonna change the rest of your life.
• 9:01
  Douglas: Totally.
• 9:02
  Shelby: And it just felt like I could see people who kind of looked like me, or I don't know how to explain it, but I just felt like I belonged or something.
• 9:09
  Douglas: You found your people.
• 9:09
  Shelby: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:10
  Shelby: So I went for it.
• 9:11
  Douglas: So did you just go knock on the door and say, hey, I'm coming here?
• 9:14
  Shelby: Pretty much.
• 9:15
  Shelby: It was a steep entry fee, and then I used every Nike bonus check and jumping the gun on that too, to pay off my debt after that.
• 9:22
  Shelby: And I was just like, all right, we're getting out of this to move on.
• 9:26
  Douglas: So how is that a four-year program that you're in?
• 9:28
  Douglas: Four-year program.
• 9:29
  Douglas: Four-year program.
• 9:30
  Douglas: And when you go to design school, I know what it's like to study history, to study math, how do you study in design?
• 9:39
  Shelby: Yeah, well, I actually, because I had uh some business curriculum already completed from high school, I decided to make up my own major, which is kind of I don't know, similar to, or I guess it's not a surprise based on how I kind of navigate the world as kind of doing things my own way.
• 9:57
  Shelby: Um and so I I did some like fashion merchandising, which is basically like it could vary from um you're determining what products go into a store.
• 10:08
  Shelby: Um you could be doing merchandising from a retail perspective and determining like the floor layouts.
• 10:13
  Shelby: There's a lot of different aspects of merchandising, but um then I did fashion design where I learned pattern making, draping, uh sewing 101, and then I had to produce a final collection and thesis in the end.
• 10:27
  Douglas: So as far as collection, how many pieces is that?
• 10:30
  Shelby: Uh like six or something.
• 10:31
  Shelby: So you have to hand you have to basically show you that you understand the crafting.
• 10:35
  Shelby: The craft and everything.
• 10:36
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 10:38
  Douglas: And then you're writing a thesis describing how you made everything or how you totally.
• 10:42
  Douglas: Do you have to have like a marketing plan with that as well?
• 10:44
  Douglas: Or is it just the manufacturing part?
• 10:46
  Shelby: Well, it's I think that actually that's an opportunity for universities uh to maybe change some of the curriculum.
• 10:53
  Shelby: I think for more um I think a realistic approach to fashion design, because so much of what I've experienced is um fantasy a little bit, which I think in some respects is really wonderful for your brain to be like, oh, I can make anything.
• 11:07
  Shelby: And even I made extravagant things that no human being would ever wear.
• 11:11
  Shelby: And now I design Gore-Tex gear, you know, and so I think that like actually um challenging young designers to build thorough tech packs, like because basically, like what I do on a day-to-day basis is I'm drawing the computer design, like the black and white sketch, and we're sending it to the developers and the factory to make something one for one with our intention and the measurements and the specs and everything, versus making a garment one of and then not being able to reproduce it.
• 11:43
  Shelby: Okay.
• 11:44
  Shelby: Which is often what a lot of young designers they get stuck, they don't know how to make two, let alone ten.
• 11:49
  Shelby: Okay.
• 11:50
  Shelby: Or a hundred.
• 11:51
  Douglas: Because they're just going through and just making it, but they're not keeping any of the measurements and all the different pieces and stuff as they're doing their first one.
• 11:57
  Shelby: No, not really.
• 11:57
  Shelby: I mean, we had patterns, but like none of the patterns were digitized, they were all handmade, and then some of them were crappy.
• 12:04
  Shelby: Like if things don't match up, you know, then that's where production nightmares happen.
• 12:08
  Shelby: And I've seen a lot of those things occur.
• 12:12
  Douglas: So why do designers make this stuff that nobody's ever gonna wear?
• 12:16
  Douglas: What is that just to create a name for them?
• 12:18
  Douglas: Or because there's some stuff out there, it's like the heck were they thinking?
• 12:22
  Douglas: So is there a purpose behind that?
• 12:25
  Douglas: I think that it really comes down to um I think just I mean, this coming from a guy that's usually in just like jeans and a t-shirt all the time, so I have no fashion sense at all.
• 12:34
  Douglas: So a lot of things that other people would probably wear.
• 12:37
  Douglas: I'm like, what the hell?
• 12:38
  Shelby: No, I mean I think it's a a very valid point.
• 12:40
  Shelby: And I even when I was working for a global company a few years back, like oftentimes people will draw outlandish things.
• 12:49
  Shelby: And I think that's part of the challenge, is like oftentimes like leadership wants to see um something unique, crazy, out there that is innovation, quote unquote.
• 12:59
  Shelby: But actually, innovation could be just making a very thoughtful white t-shirt that has a better fit or a better fabric.
• 13:06
  Douglas: But I think to a lot of people that's not sexy, but that's it probably doesn't get the same press as some something a little more outrageous.
• 13:13
  Douglas: That that's always what I thought is this is more of just uh getting people to speak the name of the brand, and then you have your other portfolio under that that you're actually selling to people.
• 13:22
  Douglas: Yeah, but if they see whatever supermodel or in a magazine, whatever, this crazy thing, they're like, Yeah, I'm not gonna buy that, but that's kind of cool and I like what they're doing.
• 13:32
  Douglas: I wonder what else they have.
• 13:33
  Shelby: That's true.
• 13:34
  Shelby: I mean, I think that it can drive hype and it can drive um interest to a brand where like you might come in because you saw this crazy, I'm just making up like um airflow jersey, but actually you walk out with a pair of socks, but it still brought you into the store.
• 13:49
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 13:49
  Shelby: So I think in some perspectives, like or from one perspective, it can indeed um uh be like marketing hype, but then the things that keep the lights on, like the bread and butter of the business, is usually like 365 essentials.
• 14:05
  Shelby: And so I think that for young designers, like they're not thinking like that yet.
• 14:10
  Shelby: It takes a lot of time to develop those skills.
• 14:12
  Shelby: So oftentimes these kids get pulled out of school, and I mean like self-included, right?
• 14:15
  Shelby: I'm speaking from my personal journey, and you go from making like a chiffon flowing gown and you think you're gonna dress, I don't know, someone on the red carpet, but like that doesn't really happen.
• 14:26
  Shelby: You don't have the connections, you don't have access to any of these people, where you then land a job in corporate America as like a design assistant, and then you have to, you know, basically draw lines like to draw indicate a rib neckline, and and young people are like, well, this is boring, you know, or whatever, impatient because everyone wants to do the sexy stuff.
• 14:47
  Shelby: But that's where you have to learn the skill.
• 14:52
  Douglas: I can see where that would be a huge come down for somebody that's they all want to be the runway shows, right?
• 15:00
  Shelby: I think a lot I mean, not not everyone, but not everybody, but a lot of them.
• 15:04
  Shelby: I think that just comes with age, like and wisdom.
• 15:06
  Shelby: But I think I like I'm I'm surrounded by a ton of amazing designers who who definitely think like me, you know, but I think it's just um I think from the the college perspective into the industry, like that is a big hurdle.
• 15:19
  Shelby: Because I think that it is a little bit of um and and fashion is there's a lot of romance to it, right?
• 15:25
  Shelby: When we look at like Alexander McQueen or Chanel and all of these brands who have built these empires, um, and it's amazing.
• 15:33
  Shelby: It's like this world that you want to be a part of.
• 15:35
  Shelby: Um, but then there's brands like you know, I'm I'm just thinking like when I mentioned the t-shirt, like the car heart.
• 15:42
  Shelby: Like I just want that t-shirt.
• 15:44
  Shelby: It's I trust it, brand like credibility, easy.
• 15:51
  Douglas: It's gonna last.
• 15:52
  Shelby: It's gonna last.
• 15:53
  Shelby: It does what I need it to do, and the price point's great.
• 15:55
  Shelby: Um, and so I think getting younger people to be motivated to make things like that, it just takes time, I think.
• 16:03
  Shelby: And then you wear it and then you start to understand and you want to make it a little bit better, or oh, I wish it was like this.
• 16:08
  Shelby: You know, when when I think when products fail, for me is when I see like brains really ticking and they can um I think affect change, and then they realize, oh, that's at scale, and I can help my friend or my mom or my brother or whoever, and this product can enhance their life.
• 16:23
  Shelby: To me, that is a big motivator.
• 16:25
  Douglas: Alright.
• 16:26
  Douglas: I never thought of fashion that way.
• 16:28
  Shelby: Well, I mean, like I'm looking around the store and there's so much good shit in here, and like someone I have hold on.
• 16:36
  Douglas: I think you're the reason that clothing drives me crazy.
• 16:40
  Douglas: Because every year they come up with for me, I'm like a hard guy that I can order the same skew, it's the same number every year, I know how many to sell, and then like with that jacket, next year they're gonna make some changes to it.
• 16:51
  Douglas: It's gonna have a different part number, it's gonna be different colors and all this.
• 16:54
  Douglas: Yes, and that drives me nuts.
• 16:57
  Shelby: Right.
• 16:57
  Shelby: Okay, no brand affiliation with this jacket.
• 16:59
  Shelby: I just pulled off the rack.
• 17:00
  Shelby: But like, you know, in design, one is determining like the zipper and is this enamel, is it nickel?
• 17:07
  Shelby: Is it you know, this is going to chip?
• 17:10
  Shelby: That's the reality.
• 17:10
  Shelby: But it looks nice when it's dye to match with the body.
• 17:13
  Shelby: And like designers are responsible for choosing the length of the zip attachment, and like the back of this has the you know, kind of uh haptic little uh sensation when you pull, so you have grip.
• 17:27
  Douglas: So what's it what's that up at the top where it covers the zipper?
• 17:30
  Douglas: No, that little where the zipper is.
• 17:32
  Douglas: The zipper garage is the same thing.
• 17:34
  Shelby: It's usually so it doesn't bounce.
• 17:36
  Shelby: Okay, but it's just like a little home for it.
• 17:39
  Shelby: But anyway, all of these choices from like where the seam line goes, is there top stitching, is there this inner cuff, and like how do you how does this even oh there's no thumb hole.
• 17:50
  Shelby: That's okay.
• 17:50
  Shelby: But you know, all of these choices, and then that makes it good or bad.
• 17:55
  Shelby: And so oftentimes I'll just go and study uh anybody's jacket, uh-huh, and I'll be like, oh, I do this differently, and I change this.
• 18:04
  Douglas: So you'll change it and make the improvements and then put that forward and see if you can Yeah.
• 18:08
  Douglas: And is that something too that like on your own designs, once you see it, do you what because I'm guessing it's different from when you first feel it.
• 18:19
  Douglas: Like that first sample comes in after what you drug.
• 18:22
  Shelby: I've seen so many bad samples that's like.
• 18:23
  Douglas: Are you like, okay, we need to change this, we need to change this.
• 18:26
  Shelby: Oh yeah.
• 18:26
  Douglas: I just I think you wear it for a while and you're like, okay, we need to change these three things.
• 18:30
  Shelby: 100%.
• 18:30
  Shelby: But ideally we figure that out before it goes to market.
• 18:34
  Shelby: So usually I'm seeing like up to three prototypes of something.
• 18:38
  Douglas: So when you from when you first have an idea to when it goes to market, what's the time frame on that?
• 18:42
  Douglas: Oof.
• 18:43
  Shelby: Uh usually one year.
• 18:45
  Shelby: For most brands, sometimes two.
• 18:47
  Shelby: One year.
• 18:48
  Shelby: So there's four, usually four seasons that are all going at different paces, right?
• 18:52
  Shelby: So an outerwear takes a lot longer with the lead time and um material development for like something like Gore Tex.
• 19:01
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 19:01
  Shelby: The testing, the approval, everything, yeah.
• 19:05
  Douglas: One to two years from first idea to hidden.
• 19:07
  Shelby: And so many things can go wrong.
• 19:09
  Shelby: It's crazy.
• 19:09
  Shelby: It's like every day is truly nuts.
• 19:12
  Shelby: Like I walk into the office and I'm like, okay, let's go.
• 19:14
  Shelby: What's it today?
• 19:15
  Shelby: But it's also amazing.
• 19:16
  Shelby: Like, I I love um problem solving, and even like I the day I flew here was one of the craziest days of the year.
• 19:23
  Shelby: And the company I work for now, who I just absolutely adore, um, and everything has been so amazing.
• 19:28
  Shelby: Like, I love my team, I love the company, the culture, all of the things.
• 19:32
  Shelby: Um, but we knew in advance that this was like we had to send everything to the factory um that day.
• 19:39
  Shelby: I had a fitting that day.
• 19:41
  Shelby: I had to present to executives that day, and then I flew to White Horse, and then I drove to Haynes Junction, and I like got to the motel that was freezing, and I was like, oh my god, but I'm so happy to be back.
• 19:51
  Shelby: But that day though was just so intense because so many like all these decisions where I'm when I'm passing the factory, all of my choices and all of my call-outs will indicate basically what that prototype looks like looks like.
• 20:03
  Douglas: Uh-huh.
• 20:03
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Douglas: And is that something so as you're sending before you send that to the factory, do the executives, do you have to you lay your pitch, okay?
• 20:12
  Douglas: This is the deal, this is all the changes.
• 20:14
  Douglas: And do they, before you start on a design, do you do they say you need to make a jacket, a vest, a this, or do you totally that's it's all top down on what you need to design.
• 20:25
  Douglas: And you can't go, hey, yeah, I saw this other piece, I want to change this.
• 20:29
  Shelby: Sometimes, yeah.
• 20:29
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Shelby: I think it just depends on the team and also just like last year's business and what are we trying to comp and what are we trying to grow?
• 20:40
  Shelby: Like it could be anything from like launching uh an outerwear program, it could be um expanding tank tops, it could be, you know, it all just depends on the season too, because you're not gonna launch Gore-Tex in July.
• 20:54
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 20:55
  Shelby: So I mean, like a lot of it's common sense, but like let's just say that I'm like, oh my gosh, I really want to make a romper, and they're like, uh, there's no place for it.
• 21:02
  Shelby: But if you really believe in it, we'll give it a shot.
• 21:07
  Douglas: So I mean with it with the different seasons, how many products are you working on at a time?
• 21:13
  Shelby: I remember back in 2015, I had one season of 72 styles, but not all of them were complicated.
• 21:20
  Shelby: Like some of them were um what we would call like badge and borrow, where you're taking like basically a tech pack and you might just be putting it into a new material, but no fit changes, you know, or it could be like a new graphic or something like that.
• 21:33
  Shelby: So I was still responsible for you know overseeing the style, but then at the same time, uh, there was like a Nike Air collection where um it was going to get a lot of marketing support, and so I had to design like a flight suit, which you know is like full zip front, all of the pocketing.
• 21:51
  Shelby: And I'd never designed a flight suit before, and that was one that I really struggled.
• 21:55
  Shelby: I was very young, but I struggled with that a lot.
• 21:57
  Shelby: And my boss sat down.
• 21:58
  Shelby: I remember we sketched together and I I really loved learning from her.
• 22:01
  Shelby: And so, um, that ended up being like a really cool piece for my portfolio.
• 22:06
  Shelby: But I remember just thinking like, oof, I'm I'm over I started to get to my burnout point at that stage.
• 22:11
  Shelby: But at the same time I was learning so much that um and I think sometimes it's hard to know um or to still stay grateful when you're overwhelmed.
• 22:21
  Shelby: And so I think that's something that I I really want to help younger designers with too, or just like stress management.
• 22:27
  Shelby: When you are good at something and I kept saying yes, I'll do more than that.
• 22:31
  Douglas: All of us could use some stress management, not just young designers.
• 22:33
  Douglas: That is a fact.
• 22:34
  Douglas: That is a fact.
• 22:35
  Shelby: Can you broaden that out a little bit and have some stress management for everybody?
• 22:39
  Shelby: True, true.
• 22:40
  Shelby: I think I've just been really like tunnel vision because um I don't know.
• 22:43
  Douglas: Well that's the path you've walked, so you you understand that better than other paths.
• 22:47
  Douglas: So you mentioned Nike several times.
• 22:49
  Douglas: So when you graduated from college, was that your first job?
• 22:53
  Douglas: Was that Nike?
• 22:55
  Shelby: I ended up launching my own clothing line at age 22.
• 22:59
  Shelby: It's so reckless, so stupid.
• 23:03
  Shelby: Um, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
• 23:05
  Shelby: Amazing, horrible, great, like just like when my dog had puppies.
• 23:09
  Shelby: Like it was like the best thing ever and the worst thing ever.
• 23:11
  Shelby: Like you get 11 of these things, you're like trying to care for them, and you're like, ah.
• 23:15
  Douglas: So you what did you write out of college?
• 23:18
  Douglas: What what kind of clothing were you designing?
• 23:20
  Shelby: I basically um I joined the Chicago Fashion Incubator at age 22.
• 23:26
  Shelby: I was defin I was the youngest um member.
• 23:28
  Shelby: They choose six designers each year, help you launch your brand.
• 23:30
  Shelby: So they give you the design mentorship, the um uh business um mentorship, and you're supposed supposed to create one collection that you go to market and you sell.
• 23:42
  Shelby: And so none of us had experience in business making anything, producing two of anything, and we all went for it.
• 23:51
  Shelby: And there were like four bridal designers.
• 23:53
  Shelby: I don't know why.
• 23:54
  Shelby: They're just sort of like everyone was into bridal.
• 23:56
  Shelby: And I was women's contemporary.
• 23:57
  Shelby: I wanted things to be price point like accessible, but I still wanted it to be like a little bit elevated.
• 24:02
  Shelby: And my first season, I was I did way too many things, and I learned from that.
• 24:07
  Shelby: And so I I remember using like um as an example, I created like a dress in purple, but I didn't produce it in black or white.
• 24:16
  Shelby: I created like a green shirt, but I didn't do like any other colorways.
• 24:21
  Shelby: And so I just was make again like kind of doing school again on accident, and so I almost dropped out of the program, but I decided I like got really focused and I needed time, and I I asked for their approval, and I'm like, okay, I know what to do.
• 24:34
  Shelby: I just needed a minute to to recalibrate, and so I ended up designing these Thai tunics with bamboo in black, charcoal, and white.
• 24:43
  Shelby: And then I designed this coordinating bottom, black, charcoal, white.
• 24:47
  Shelby: Then I designed a dress in that same, and I was like, how many things can I do with this one fabric?
• 24:51
  Shelby: And that's how I still behave to this day.
• 24:54
  Shelby: And it was that season where I had $500 to my name.
• 24:57
  Shelby: I've sent postcards, I did research of all the boutiques in the United States that I wanted to sell to.
• 25:01
  Shelby: I sent postcards and said, hi, I'm Shelby, whatever.
• 25:03
  Shelby: And this is kind of like this this weird, I don't know what it was, but it was like I was harnessing this power, this energy where I just it was totally shameless and I was not afraid.
• 25:13
  Shelby: But I had nothing to lose at that point.
• 25:15
  Shelby: Like I had all this college debt, and I was just like, send it.
• 25:18
  Shelby: So um I showed up on their doorstep.
• 25:21
  Shelby: I booked a West Coast trip, LA, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, and I put all the clothes in a suitcase.
• 25:26
  Shelby: And uh I remember landing, I was having a coffee, and I was kind of nervous, and uh, store owner said, Can you come right now?
• 25:32
  Shelby: And I thought, shit, here we go.
• 25:35
  Shelby: So I show up on his doorstep and we went through every style, and he's like, Listen, I'm not gonna buy from you, but I know someone who will.
• 25:40
  Shelby: And he sent me down the street, and it was this woman who carried all women's um apparel, and she bought from me.
• 25:47
  Shelby: And I was like, I was shocked, like I felt seen for like the first time ever, and I remember feeling so blessed and honored, and then I was like, Okay, I can do this, I can, you know, make these things for her.
• 25:57
  Shelby: And then I flew to San Francisco, and then another person bought from me.
• 26:00
  Shelby: Uh-huh.
• 26:01
  Shelby: And then a couple people ignored me.
• 26:02
  Shelby: Like I got rejected by a ton of people.
• 26:03
  Shelby: I remember walking into one store, and I they knew who I was because I was this girl that was like, Hi, hello, I'm in town.
• 26:09
  Shelby: And they were just like, I'm gonna get her.
• 26:11
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 26:12
  Shelby: And I was like, okay, that's fine.
• 26:13
  Shelby: And so then I went uh to Portland, met another woman who bought from me.
• 26:17
  Shelby: And so at this point, I'm like, dang, I think that I'm onto something.
• 26:21
  Shelby: But meanwhile, I was interviewing at Nike because I was so broke, I was so exhausted, I was doing everything.
• 26:26
  Shelby: Like I was doing the patterns, I was doing the prototyping, I was sitting at a booth at a at a market on Sunday after I was working retail doing overnight shifts for Topshop, um, where we I was dressing all the mannequins and the windows, and um I was working for my dad's company.
• 26:43
  Shelby: I was doing like all sorts of things just to get by.
• 26:46
  Douglas: And um that's usually the startup that's that's that's the only way to do it.
• 26:51
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Shelby: I kind of skipped a few things, but I did, I wasn't a fashion show, which helped me get into the fashion incubator.
• 26:58
  Shelby: Okay.
• 26:58
  Shelby: And they that's where I don't even know why they asked me to be in it, but that was kind of like the precursor to launching my line.
• 27:04
  Shelby: They didn't just like choose me out of the blue.
• 27:05
  Shelby: Uh-huh.
• 27:06
  Shelby: I didn't plan to launch my line, but that runway show was kind of the catalyst that um And so that was some of your clothes that you designed for the colour.
• 27:12
  Douglas: I made it?
• 27:13
  Shelby: No, I broke up with my boyfriend, and then I moved into a 200 square foot apartment, and I made everything by myself, like 20 looks, something like that.
• 27:22
  Shelby: It was like 10 or 20 looks, and I remember I just cried at the end of the show.
• 27:26
  Shelby: Like I smoked a cigarette and I cried because I couldn't believe I did that.
• 27:29
  Douglas: But I like just channeled-tears of joy?
• 27:31
  Shelby: Yeah, I think I was so yeah, it was weird, but I was so like proud of myself, but also like what just happened?
• 27:39
  Shelby: Yeah, and that's when they were like, Okay, join the fashion incubator.
• 27:41
  Shelby: And at that point, I was like, okay, well, there's nothing else really happening for jobs.
• 27:45
  Shelby: I tried to get a belt, some job at a belt company, and they were like, Oh, your computer skills aren't good enough.
• 27:50
  Shelby: And so they rejected me, and I was like, whatever.
• 27:52
  Shelby: I didn't even want to work here anyway.
• 27:54
  Shelby: But like, okay.
• 27:58
  Douglas: Um, but again, sometimes sometimes those rejections it pushes it it pushed you in the direction you needed to go.
• 28:06
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 28:06
  Douglas: Right?
• 28:06
  Douglas: That you you applied for it, but obviously that wasn't the job you're interested in.
• 28:10
  Shelby: Right.
• 28:11
  Douglas: And so then they actually did you a favor by saying, yeah, no, totally.
• 28:15
  Shelby: It was not meant to be.
• 28:16
  Douglas: Yeah, this is not meant to be.
• 28:17
  Douglas: You need to go on your your path.
• 28:19
  Shelby: I think a lot of people, like when I listen to my peers who get rejected, that they're just so bummed out and they like give it everything, or they half ass it.
• 28:28
  Shelby: And like you can tell when someone half-asses their resume and their cover letter and they're just sending them all out.
• 28:34
  Shelby: And like every single time that I've applied for a job where I'm super specific and I really take the time to be like you, I get I get the offer.
• 28:43
  Shelby: And I think that that is the um the difference between being all in on something and being like 30%.
• 28:49
  Shelby: Because if you're 30% on something, what how do you how do your results usually come in?
• 28:54
  Shelby: Not good.
• 28:54
  Shelby: Nope.
• 28:55
  Shelby: Yeah, so I don't know.
• 28:58
  Shelby: I think I went all in on the line and I used Nike footwear, my clothing line, I mean, and I used Nike footwear to style all of my bamboo dresses, and then they called me.
• 29:08
  Douglas: And I flew to why why'd you pick pam bamboo?
• 29:12
  Shelby: Uh I was super into sustainability at the end.
• 29:14
  Shelby: Yeah, and I was trying to do all natural fibers.
• 29:17
  Shelby: I did some organic cotton shirting, um, but I didn't want to do synthetic at the time.
• 29:23
  Shelby: I thought it was just more like a space that a lot of like the big brands couldn't really capitalize off of well, and I thought it was more niche to like a um indie designer, which is true.
• 29:34
  Shelby: And I ended up initially I was like styling my models with like or my models had bald heads and they're like super fashion forward.
• 29:42
  Shelby: And then all these like 60-year-old women started buying from me, and I thought it was like I was like, huh, that's interesting, but it made sense.
• 29:48
  Shelby: Like they they were like, Oh, this is cool.
• 29:50
  Shelby: A lot of them had you know the money to they could afford a $120 Thai tunic or whatever, and I I could speak to them very easily, and I don't know what that was, but that ended up being like my core audience, interestingly enough.
• 30:05
  Douglas: Before you went to Nike, you've you've gotten these stores that are gonna carry your stuff.
• 30:09
  Shelby: Yeah, so many things.
• 30:10
  Shelby: It's so hard to follow the story because there's a lot.
• 30:12
  Douglas: Did you did you produce that and ship it to them?
• 30:15
  Shelby: I did.
• 30:15
  Douglas: How was the sell-through?
• 30:17
  Shelby: Uh I think it was successful.
• 30:18
  Shelby: I mean, units were super low.
• 30:20
  Shelby: It wasn't like I didn't really like make money off of that opportunity.
• 30:23
  Shelby: I think it was just more like I think the people that were willing to take a risk on me, like I honestly I'm so grateful and thankful forever to these to these stores because it's a huge risk in every way.
• 30:35
  Shelby: Of like, I don't know.
• 30:37
  Shelby: I I remember like messing up or uh one not for the that specific order, but there was an instance for um the Sunday market where a woman said to me, She did all the um how do I say this?
• 30:51
  Shelby: Like Opti Tex is kind of like the software where you digitize a pattern, and a pattern is the blueprint of the garment.
• 30:57
  Shelby: So it's like you know, how the shirt is cut out, whether it's like upside down and the sleeves and everything.
• 31:03
  Shelby: And she said, I noticed your sleeve is kind of big, can I adjust it?
• 31:06
  Shelby: And I had made the pattern and I loved it, it was just kind of like relaxed and easy, and I thought, oh, she knows better than me, and I put my trust in this person.
• 31:14
  Shelby: And when she did that, she didn't account for the cap, and all of the shirts came out like this.
• 31:20
  Shelby: And so I paid all of these like for the fabric.
• 31:25
  Shelby: I paid for it to be cut.
• 31:27
  Shelby: I was taking like an Uber and carrying bolts of fabric, and then I was getting on the train in Chicago, and then I was picking up the cut and sew stuff.
• 31:33
  Douglas: You're on the train in Chicago, the bolts of fabric?
• 31:35
  Shelby: Oh, I didn't I didn't yes, I did not have a car.
• 31:37
  Shelby: I tried everything.
• 31:38
  Shelby: You did it all, yeah.
• 31:40
  Shelby: So anyway, when that happened, I was just like crushed because I was just like, what a disaster.
• 31:44
  Shelby: And I ended up just like giving them to goodwill.
• 31:45
  Shelby: I couldn't even sell most of them.
• 31:47
  Shelby: Yeah, and I just cut my name out of the tag.
• 31:49
  Shelby: Yeah, but I mean it hurt when I was like so broke, and so I think that's when I was like, okay, I'm gonna go work for Nike.
• 31:55
  Shelby: I need to learn how to do this better, like this whole thing, and then I'll come back.
• 31:59
  Shelby: But I think at the time I was like kind of in Chicago, a big fish in a little pond is what it kind of turned out to be because there wasn't like a major fashion scene there at the time.
• 32:07
  Shelby: And then I arrived to Nike and I was a little fish in a massive ocean, and there's like a thousand designers, and I mean crazy smart people from all over the world.
• 32:17
  Shelby: And I was very overwhelmed because I did not have good stress management skills at that time in my life.
• 32:22
  Shelby: I was so I was 25.
• 32:24
  Shelby: And so I spent eight years at Nike and I did a bunch of different things.
• 32:28
  Shelby: I started in women's sportswear, um, I designed fleece, I received utility patents for some of my designs.
• 32:36
  Shelby: I went to Nike Lab where we worked with all the celebrities and designers, and like um Sakai, a Japanese designer, Claude, Stussy, amongst others.
• 32:47
  Shelby: And like I would help make their vision a reality, which was a whole different skill set.
• 32:52
  Shelby: It's like a whole different way of working, where you're kind of like the concierge in some respects, where I'm just like, I will do whatever you wish, and you want to make a pink bomber jacket.
• 33:02
  Shelby: I'm like, okay, we'll do that, and I'll figure out what you want.
• 33:06
  Shelby: I'll figure out how to make what you want, the vision real.
• 33:08
  Shelby: And then I I was so obsessed with the outdoors, and my partner of 11 years, he taught me everything I know, and I'm so grateful for that too, because um, that's kind of he and I wound up in Alaska together, and I was obsessed with um gear because I had I was a total noob, I didn't know anything, and I learned by doing like I have so many stories of the outdoors of just amateur hour, you know, and like truly, and I was like, I know how to make this better, or like, oh my god, I'm never gonna buy this again, and like this fabric works, this, and so I kept begging my boss, can I please work on Nike's outdoor um line called All Conditions Gear?
• 33:49
  Shelby: Uh-huh.
• 33:49
  Shelby: And um finally they gave it to me after I begged, and that became like my baby for the next, I think I did 14 seasons there.
• 33:56
  Shelby: And ACG had had a many different identities over the years, and um I helped, or at least my aim was uh to take ACG from the street to the summit.
• 34:10
  Shelby: Whereas a lot of other brands start, like say North Face, Arterics, they start at the summit, and all of them have kind of gone to the street.
• 34:17
  Shelby: And so that was really um there were three of us, Christine, Noor, and I.
• 34:26
  Shelby: I mean, they're a huge team of developers and marketing and and everyone, and and we made um products as a system, like the merino waffle base layer to the um Wolf Tree, Polar Tech, midlayer, like Polar Tech 100, 60 Gram Primal Loft, and then the three layer Gore-Tex.
• 34:47
  Shelby: And then every time we went on trips together, we would wear test our products and then we would make new stuff based on where we were at.
• 34:54
  Shelby: So, like we did Hawaii, we did Alaska, we did Iceland, and everyone wore the products.
• 35:02
  Douglas: So, did Nike send you on those trips?
• 35:04
  Shelby: They did.
• 35:05
  Douglas: And so you guys would go out on an expedition and just test it out yourselves?
• 35:08
  Shelby: Yes.
• 35:09
  Douglas: Really?
• 35:09
  Douglas: Yeah, that's gotta be cool as hell.
• 35:11
  Douglas: It was great.
• 35:12
  Douglas: I would think they'd have like labs and other people's like, oh, go test this, but the fact that they're sending the designers out, because you're the ones that are gonna it makes sense to do it that way.
• 35:21
  Douglas: You're gonna you're the ones that are gonna figure out what needs to be improved and be the quickest way to do that.
• 35:25
  Shelby: It was a very magical experience.
• 35:27
  Shelby: Like, I haven't replicated that, I don't think any of us have since that team.
• 35:32
  Shelby: And unfortunately, like the whole team kind of moved on with new opportunities, and like everyone's thriving and doing like my former boss has his own line and he's crushing it.
• 35:39
  Shelby: Like, so everyone is doing what they're meant to do, but there was this synergy, and I think it's like when you feel um the collaboration and teamwork and trust, then good, really good things happen.
• 35:52
  Shelby: And when you're actually experiencing things, there's like a level of camaraderie, I think, that occurs where um I don't know, the output is so superior.
• 36:04
  Shelby: Like when you when there's it's like to me, it's like the team dynamic, or like I think synergy is probably the best word, but no, I got in in any work environment.
• 36:14
  Douglas: If if you have a uh a good team energy and everybody's on the same page working together, the output uh uh just skyrockets when you can hit that that sweet zone with everybody on the team, everybody's pulling together, pulling for each other instead of one or two people trying to going off in a different direction or what have you.
• 36:36
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 36:40
  Shelby: And I think the difference with like how I've seen big organizations, it's it's a lack of rapport.
• 36:47
  Shelby: Like in a small town like this, right?
• 36:48
  Shelby: You you can go and be like, hey, so and so, like, can you help me with that?
• 36:51
  Shelby: Like you know who these people are, but in a huge place like Nike, who can you're like, oh, I wish I could get some help and marketing, but you don't even know who to go to.
• 37:00
  Shelby: But when you're doing those trips together, you can just get on the Slack channel and be like, Hey, Nico, like what's up, man?
• 37:07
  Shelby: Let's go talk about photos over lunch.
• 37:08
  Shelby: You know, like there's just like it's it's um smooth and the rapport, I think, just really strengthens the whole experience and the end product, which is the most important part.
• 37:19
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 37:21
  Douglas: So what was over your eight years at Nike, what was your biggest the biggest thing you learned there, or the best thing that forwarded your whether it's your the way that you design, is it the teamwork aspect and knowing that part?
• 37:35
  Douglas: Is there is there something else that you'd consider is like a huge takeaway for you?
• 37:41
  Shelby: That's a really good question.
• 37:42
  Shelby: I mean, there's so much.
• 37:43
  Shelby: Um you can name more than one.
• 37:45
  Shelby: Okay.
• 37:46
  Shelby: Um I think number one I would say one of my chapters in my book is exit gracefully.
• 37:51
  Shelby: I think when I look back, like it's kind of like um I don't know, if you think about like a sport game, like you could be dominating like the whole game, and like I was in my career.
• 38:01
  Shelby: And then just like the last five seconds you miss the field goal and you lose.
• 38:05
  Shelby: And that's kind of what it felt like for me.
• 38:07
  Shelby: And like I I no matter what, I always tell the truth.
• 38:09
  Shelby: That's one thing about me that I I like a lot about myself, and other people don't.
• 38:13
  Shelby: That's fine.
• 38:14
  Shelby: Um, I'm not afraid to tell the truth.
• 38:16
  Shelby: But um, I think there's there's ways to do it, and even you know, HR told me I had a lot of courage and I was brave because I brought things to the forefront that needed to be addressed, but at the same time, I think it's the how.
• 38:28
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 38:28
  Douglas: Oh, I'm not sure.
• 38:29
  Douglas: Not not the what.
• 38:30
  Douglas: Yep.
• 38:30
  Douglas: It's a lot of times it's how the message is delivered, not what's in the message.
• 38:34
  Shelby: Yeah, because I was a little bit like Chuck Norris.
• 38:37
  Shelby: That wasn't necessary.
• 38:40
  Douglas: It's not always Chuck's not always the best person to follow on things.
• 38:45
  Douglas: Certain situations you can't go wrong with Chuck.
• 38:48
  Douglas: HR issues, maybe, that might not have been the best.
• 38:53
  Shelby: Yeah, but I mean, honestly, like time heals everything.
• 38:57
  Shelby: Like, I had a lot of personal and professional challenges and setbacks, and I think it's really just like for me, it's how you get back up.
• 39:05
  Shelby: Like a lot of the women in who I really respect and value, like Martha Stewart.
• 39:10
  Shelby: I love Martha Stewart.
• 39:12
  Shelby: She's like my number one.
• 39:13
  Shelby: I know it's a weird thing to say, but like this lady just keeps getting back up and keeps reinventing herself over and over and over again.
• 39:19
  Shelby: And she's like, I don't know, unstoppable.
• 39:22
  Shelby: Even though, like being publicly humiliated, going to jail, like you name it, and it's like, that's alright.
• 39:28
  Shelby: I'm still gonna make a badass pie.
• 39:30
  Shelby: And you're probably gonna watch my show still.
• 39:33
  Douglas: And I'm gonna make all these other things that you're gonna buy.
• 39:36
  Douglas: So I'm just gonna carry on with my life.
• 39:38
  Douglas: I'm just gonna keep crushing it.
• 39:40
  Shelby: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:41
  Shelby: Hillary Clinton, same thing, you know?
• 39:44
  Shelby: Like, man.
• 39:45
  Shelby: I think being in the public eye, and I think that's one thing I've been afraid of.
• 39:48
  Shelby: Like most of my life I've been just like, oh, I'm afraid of being judged.
• 39:51
  Shelby: I'm like, I don't care anymore.
• 39:53
  Shelby: I don't really care.
• 39:53
  Shelby: I'm like, I'm working out, I look good, I feel good.
• 39:56
  Shelby: I'm not afraid to like just be myself.
• 40:00
  Shelby: And I think that's where like uh I think it's easy for folks to to point a finger and judge or whatever.
• 40:06
  Shelby: And I think it's more like currently my team right now is like I walk in and I'm like, can you like my team is like, you look so cute today?
• 40:12
  Shelby: And I'm like, you look so cute.
• 40:13
  Shelby: And it's just like all these women just like elevating women, and I love it.
• 40:17
  Shelby: Like I'm here for that energy.
• 40:18
  Shelby: Versus like I've been around like a lot of competitive things where it's easier to like knock someone down than it is to build them up, and like I'm not here for that.
• 40:26
  Shelby: So I'm stoked to be around other people who are like, let's go, let's do this, even when it comes to Haynes home projects.
• 40:34
  Shelby: Like, get on board, say what you're gonna do, or get out.
• 40:40
  Douglas: Well, no, I think what you're bringing up, though, is that thought of what uh or that fear of what other people are thinking, that judgment that comes from the outside.
• 40:48
  Douglas: And sometimes you don't have to wonder what they're thinking, they're telling you what they think.
• 40:52
  Douglas: Yeah, and that judgment aspect holds so many people back.
• 40:56
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Douglas: I know my I I still struggle with that.
• 41:01
  Shelby: It's a lifelong journey for sure.
• 41:02
  Shelby: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:04
  Douglas: That to re to recognize that that you know other people's opinions really don't matter.
• 41:09
  Shelby: No.
• 41:10
  Douglas: That if you're out there, if you're out there doing your best and you're following your dreams and putting a hundred percent on the line, if somebody else has an issue with that, that's more pro their problem, not yours.
• 41:20
  Douglas: Totally.
• 41:20
  Shelby: But I bring that up also because of Haynes.
• 41:22
  Shelby: Like, I I think about um for me, like I came here and I thought I thought I was gonna do a lot of different things.
• 41:29
  Shelby: I thought I was gonna build a house with my partner, I thought I was going to uh I don't know, and I ended up healing and uh I I don't know, like nature and um the kindness of this town and just pristine beauty, like all of the things.
• 41:47
  Shelby: I I had a very wildly different journey than I anticipated, but um the environment had so much to do with my um my growth and my development and and becoming the leader that I always wanted to be because I think everyone wants the title, everyone wants the money, but they don't actually know like what the the actions of being a leader really means.
• 42:09
  Shelby: And I didn't know.
• 42:10
  Shelby: I wanted to be around healthy and happy people, and I wasn't one, and I had to become one.
• 42:15
  Shelby: I think Haynes helped me um find that part of myself again.
• 42:18
  Douglas: How long were you in Haynes?
• 42:20
  Shelby: Uh I started visiting Haynes in 2019, and then I left last August.
• 42:27
  Shelby: Just I went for a one-year project.
• 42:30
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 42:31
  Shelby: Um, but now I gotta fund my house project, so I'm still staying down south for a little while longer because this is spendy.
• 42:38
  Douglas: So when you let when you left Nike, was that to come to Haynes?
• 42:42
  Shelby: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:42
  Shelby: Because my ex and I had bought property here, um, and we knew that this was like we went to all these different mountain towns together, like Jackson Hole, and I don't know, you name it, like we went to Mount Baker, tell your ride, and we were like, we we like this place over this place, this place over this place, and then we did the Alaska backpacking trip, and we were like, this is it.
• 43:03
  Douglas: This is the place.
• 43:04
  Shelby: This is the place.
• 43:05
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 43:05
  Shelby: But I struggled with Haynes a bit because I knew what it will what it really meant.
• 43:10
  Shelby: And I think that for a lot of people who come here once, it's this fantasy kind of land, and um actually being here is a very different thing that I I think most people like I think about my network, and I don't know, I probably on this planet I probably know about 4,000 people.
• 43:25
  Shelby: I mean just like intimately, and I don't know very many people who I think could really hack it here.
• 43:30
  Shelby: And I'm not saying that as like a flex, I'm just saying that like you know, three weeks for Amazon right now in Vancouver.
• 43:36
  Shelby: I get it, I can get it in five hours on my doorstep.
• 43:38
  Shelby: I can go get my nails done.
• 43:40
  Douglas: I can you know mentality here.
• 43:42
  Shelby: Yes.
• 43:43
  Shelby: It's a lot of sacrifice and um and patience.
• 43:47
  Shelby: Mm-hmm.
• 43:47
  Shelby: Groceries come in once a week, is that right?
• 43:50
  Shelby: You know, there's like so many things like that.
• 43:53
  Shelby: That's um a pee in a bucket, right?
• 43:56
  Shelby: Like I'm doing all of those things when I'm here.
• 43:58
  Shelby: And I also kind of love it.
• 43:59
  Shelby: Like it's it's
• 44:00
  Douglas: I don't know.
• 44:00
  Douglas: So how long do from from when you got here, how long do you think it took you to realize that this is you probably realized it was really different at the start, but that hey we can I can make this work.
• 44:12
  Douglas: This is this is completely different from my previous lifestyle, but I can make this work.
• 44:17
  Douglas: I'm tough enough to do this.
• 44:19
  Shelby: I think this first summer I was here, I was truly blown away.
• 44:23
  Shelby: Like it was magical, amazing.
• 44:25
  Shelby: I was shocked.
• 44:26
  Shelby: And I was like, whoa, this is a whole new life.
• 44:29
  Shelby: But I wasn't like, I didn't get it yet.
• 44:31
  Shelby: You know, like I was still coming off of getting emails and answering the factory at 3 a.m.
• 44:35
  Shelby: And I I didn't even know how my my nervous system could settle.
• 44:38
  Shelby: And so I ended up hiring a coach remotely to do bodybuilding stuff with B and she helped me like regulate my hormones and do all these things.
• 44:46
  Shelby: So I did that in Carol Tyneman's house where I was riding my little motor, like my little bike and working out, and that actually helped my mental health.
• 44:53
  Shelby: I didn't know how much I needed working out for my mental health.
• 44:56
  Shelby: Number one.
• 44:56
  Shelby: Number two, um, yeah, Haynes was a glorious summer, and then winter came.
• 45:01
  Shelby: And then I was like, I don't have a ski resort anymore.
• 45:07
  Shelby: I know I sound like such a little snot saying this, but like it's real.
• 45:10
  Shelby: Like, you know, I was going to Mount Hood and totally different.
• 45:14
  Douglas: Haynes in the wintertime is totally different than Haynes in the darkness.
• 45:17
  Shelby: The darkness is the hardest part for me for sure.
• 45:20
  Douglas: And there's a ton of ski terrain, but you don't have a lift.
• 45:24
  Shelby: Correct.
• 45:24
  Douglas: You don't have the the it's it's a lot harder to access it.
• 45:28
  Shelby: Yep.
• 45:28
  Douglas: And it can be hard to look and go, oh man, that'd be awesome to ski.
• 45:32
  Shelby: Yes.
• 45:33
  Douglas: But you can't.
• 45:34
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 45:34
  Shelby: Yep.
• 45:35
  Shelby: And so I also didn't have a network.
• 45:36
  Shelby: I didn't have friends.
• 45:37
  Shelby: I felt very alone.
• 45:38
  Shelby: And I felt very um isolated.
• 45:41
  Shelby: And I mean I did things like playing video games and reading books and like, you know, puzzles and all the things that people do in the winter here, projects, mosaics at the Spencer's, but um I think I I did feel the need to get out.
• 45:55
  Shelby: Like I wanted to go somewhere warm, and I had never actually been on a warm weather trip in like ten years, and then I finally did that and I came back like rejuvenated.
• 46:03
  Shelby: But I did find, I think I wanted to escape, and I don't think it had anything to do with this place necessarily, as much as it was my own self.
• 46:10
  Shelby: Like I didn't know um how to be content.
• 46:13
  Shelby: I was always like looking for change, and um I don't I don't know if I need that so much anymore.
• 46:21
  Shelby: But I at the time, like when I first arrived here, I think I felt like I was in like um uh under a magnifying glass.
• 46:27
  Shelby: And I was the only one thinking that.
• 46:28
  Shelby: Like no one else was like analyzing me and assessing me.
• 46:32
  Shelby: Well, maybe they were, I don't really know.
• 46:34
  Shelby: But I just I felt I felt like I'm just gonna be.
• 46:40
  Douglas: I think there's a lot of us that feel that way.
• 46:43
  Shelby: Yeah, but I think like that's where I just needed the the confidence to, I don't know, walk into a room and be like, what's up?
• 46:50
  Shelby: What's your name?
• 46:51
  Shelby: What do you do?
• 46:51
  Shelby: And like, oh, this person might like pour cement or might be a commercial fisherman.
• 46:55
  Shelby: I'm like, I don't have anything in common, but I'm willing to learn from you.
• 46:58
  Shelby: And I don't know, like Joey Jacobson is probably one of my favorite Haynes people on this planet, but but we think so similarly about like how, even though we're completely different people, as everyone knows.
• 47:10
  Shelby: And I I didn't really plan to give him a shout-out, but I just I was talking to him yesterday, and I I think it's like uh not being afraid to be your true authentic self, you know, being committed to your craft, and understanding people.
• 47:23
  Shelby: And I think that to me is like like really the people who I value most in my like intimate circles and and the people and of Haynes who I really adore are the people who can do all of those things.
• 47:34
  Shelby: And not that you have to be good at every single one, like we're all worked in progress.
• 47:38
  Shelby: I think it's just uh when you quit worrying so much about what other people think, then uh I think it's a lot easier to just have a good time.
• 47:48
  Shelby: And then money follows you and like friends follow you.
• 47:51
  Shelby: I think it's just like when you're like rigid, and I I'm not saying you, but I just mean uh when and it all it all fits for me too.
• 47:59
  Shelby: I've been this person, that's why I'm saying I've been this person, but when you're like when you don't feel confident and you enter a room awkwardly, like other people sense that.
• 48:06
  Shelby: And if you're just like, oh, I'm a weirdo and you're a weirdo, cool, let's be friends.
• 48:11
  Shelby: It's way better.
• 48:12
  Shelby: It's like not as weird.
• 48:14
  Douglas: How how long do you think it was you were in Haynes before you've you started feeling comfortable that you're like, hey, I'm gonna just go out and be me and start meeting people?
• 48:23
  Shelby: I think even I think honestly, like my year in Vancouver was probably the year that I needed leaving Nike.
• 48:29
  Shelby: Like I needed independence, I needed to be self-sufficient, I needed to stop being codependent on partners, and um I I found that in myself.
• 48:40
  Shelby: And even like I entered one corporate sphere and I was out in three months, and I was kind of like shook.
• 48:45
  Shelby: I was like, oh wow, like I'm coming back to Haynes whether I like it or not.
• 48:48
  Shelby: I bought this cabin and like what am I doing?
• 48:50
  Shelby: But I'm like, oh, it's winter.
• 48:51
  Shelby: So I was like, all right, I'm just gonna ski whistler.
• 48:53
  Shelby: So I skied whistler like 25 days and was just ski bombing, hanging out in Vancouver.
• 48:58
  Shelby: And um, I kind of threw a Hail Mary pass to my current employer, and I was like, hey, I interviewed with them long ago.
• 49:04
  Shelby: Uh-huh.
• 49:05
  Shelby: And um, I ended up having an amazing conversation with their leadership team, and I didn't realize that I found my fit.
• 49:12
  Shelby: And I've thought I've talked a lot about fit in the past for various reasons, because I even had a livestock guardian dog when I moved here, and she showed me over and over again who she was, and uh I didn't provide her the home that she actually needed.
• 49:28
  Shelby: And it and I I see a lot of myself in that dog because I was in this these situations and personally and professionally where it was mismatched, and I think when that happens, there's like friction all the time.
• 49:39
  Shelby: Where like she needed to be on a farm, she needed to be with sheep.
• 49:43
  Shelby: And like there were so I have infinite crazy stories, and there's a famous porcupine photo where uh she was like the porcupine slayer of Hanes.
• 49:52
  Shelby: She bit 12 in one year.
• 49:53
  Shelby: There's no vet here.
• 49:55
  Shelby: Yes, killed two.
• 49:56
  Shelby: She learned to kill them, so she would flip them with her nose and go for the belly towards the end.
• 50:01
  Shelby: But I mean, this dog was unreal.
• 50:03
  Douglas: How many quills did you have to pick out of her through twelve porcupine?
• 50:06
  Shelby: My god.
• 50:06
  Shelby: I came prepared with like the whole like gabapentin, trazodone, uh, I don't know, pill popper situation.
• 50:12
  Shelby: You had the whole day.
• 50:13
  Shelby: There was one time where we gave her, it was like 15.
• 50:16
  Shelby: She killed one on Cars Cove.
• 50:18
  Shelby: Sorry if this is like inappropriate.
• 50:20
  Shelby: It was unfortunate for all parties, trust me.
• 50:22
  Shelby: Um and had to go to Whitehorse, was stuck there for a week because we were snowed in and the border was closed on both sides.
• 50:29
  Shelby: And it was like a thousand dollars.
• 50:31
  Shelby: There's this gnarly photo of her like on the operating table with like her tongue pierced and like her chest and her um that dog taught me a lot of lessons about fit more than anything.
• 50:41
  Shelby: And I I tried my best to to provide, you know, a caring, loving home for her, but it was challenging when you could tell, like her instincts were so strong naturally to just do what she was bred to do, genetics, you know, like and um that was beyond like I could not control that, and I could not change that, and not who she was.
• 51:02
  Shelby: Exactly.
• 51:03
  Shelby: And so I think it's really important to find your fit.
• 51:05
  Shelby: And I think that's what I think is so cool about Haynes, is like there's so many different personalities and kind of misfits that all just coexist here in the best way, but like I don't know, like when you find your fit, you just know.
• 51:18
  Shelby: And I didn't think that uh I didn't feel like I belonged here initially, and like when I came back, even on this trip, I had some apprehension, I was nervous about seeing certain people or being judged, and then I don't know, I got to the fair yesterday and it was like and I went to the different restaurants and being greeted, and like so much kindness when I walk in the door.
• 51:34
  Shelby: I'm like, this feels so good, I can't wait to come back.
• 51:37
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 51:39
  Shelby: There's still a part of me that's like a little bit the glam side of me where I like having amenities and I like having running water and I like having like sauna.
• 51:50
  Shelby: I mean, there's saunas here, but you know, like all of the uh city slicker type things.
• 51:55
  Douglas: It it is a it is an adjustment from the city life.
• 52:00
  Douglas: And you were you know, between your time in college in Chicago, then you're in Portland or Beaverton with Nike, you got all that stuff, and Vancouver.
• 52:09
  Douglas: Yeah, but I mean you had you had a significant life experience with all of those things.
• 52:16
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 52:16
  Douglas: And it's it's one thing growing up in Haynes, and then you go out and you're like, yeah, I don't really need most of this stuff.
• 52:22
  Douglas: But when you're used to that, when you're growing up around all of that, right?
• 52:27
  Douglas: And that's a big part of your life, coming here now, all of those things aren't readily available, that's a that's a whole different change.
• 52:34
  Douglas: That's so true.
• 52:35
  Douglas: Because you can you can travel and see all of those things, and for me, it's like how do these places make money?
• 52:43
  Douglas: Why would somebody need there's I could go on a list of probably 50 th stores that I see down south and like how do they make a living?
• 52:50
  Douglas: I don't see why anybody would need that because you can do that in Haynes, you can go get that, you can just do that yourself.
• 52:56
  Douglas: Yeah, it's pretty wild with that amount of people, not everybody can go do it there.
• 53:00
  Douglas: Yeah, and so it's yeah, it's a diff different mindset and different opportunities.
• 53:04
  Shelby: I do think that's part of like what I think is one of my greatest strengths.
• 53:08
  Shelby: Um, entering corporate is like number one, I got Zen and I learned stress management.
• 53:13
  Shelby: A lot of that happened in Haynes.
• 53:14
  Shelby: Number two, like I learned you don't need a lot to be happy, and uh so for me, like on my weekends or whatever in Vancouver, I just value spending time with my dog and quiet and on the trails.
• 53:26
  Shelby: Like, I don't need to go to swanky bars and all those things.
• 53:29
  Shelby: Like, I'm trying to stack my chips, I'm not trying to burn through all the money that I'm making.
• 53:34
  Shelby: Like, I'm trying to throw it into this house project, but um, which is coming along for the record, but it's been a journey.
• 53:41
  Shelby: John Carlson cabinets were delivered this week.
• 53:43
  Shelby: Nice.
• 53:44
  Shelby: Yeah, very exciting.
• 53:46
  Shelby: Everyone's like, How did you get him?
• 53:48
  Shelby: He's in such high demand.
• 53:49
  Shelby: I was like, I don't know, but thank you.
• 53:51
  Douglas: You just gotta put your name in a lot far enough ahead of time and have an interesting project and he'll make it happen for you.
• 53:56
  Shelby: Yeah, I'm stoked.
• 53:57
  Shelby: I'm stoked.
• 53:58
  Shelby: I've had a lot of great help, honestly.
• 53:59
  Shelby: I think it's just um when it comes to any project, and that's one thing I've reflected on a lot, is like it's my baby, it's not someone else's.
• 54:07
  Shelby: And so to get other people to buy in and to be invested is uh an interesting challenge.
• 54:12
  Shelby: Um when everyone absolutely when everyone's in high demand.
• 54:16
  Shelby: And so it's like, you know, here where the main focus is on freedom.
• 54:21
  Shelby: I think that's what everyone wants.
• 54:23
  Shelby: Like people want money and people want to work, but at the same time, like if they get the opportunity to go fishing, like I think they're gonna go fishing.
• 54:32
  Douglas: And the number of people that don't work in September because that's moose season.
• 54:36
  Douglas: Totally.
• 54:37
  Douglas: That there's it's like, okay, we know we we have an opportunity to work with them 11 months out of the year.
• 54:43
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 54:43
  Douglas: Because during moose season, they're not gonna be around.
• 54:46
  Shelby: Yep.
• 54:47
  Douglas: Or fish, you know.
• 54:49
  Douglas: Yeah, I'd love to come over today, but the the bay's flat call, and I need to go check my halibut skates or my shrimp pots and crab pots, and it's like, yep, go do it.
• 54:59
  Shelby: Totally.
• 55:00
  Douglas: So there's there's things that are used for reasons not to show up for work in Haynes that most people everywhere else would be like, you've got no, that is not a that is not a legitimate excuse.
• 55:12
  Shelby: Like in Haynes, it's a legitimate excuse.
• 55:14
  Shelby: I know you don't always have a lot of time to do those things.
• 55:18
  Shelby: I think in in a lot of ways it's been, I try to um always do like a counter script because like sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, this is taking so long, but at the same time, I'm like, okay, well, it slowed down and I have more time to think about it.
• 55:30
  Shelby: So actually, maybe it's a blessing.
• 55:32
  Shelby: Like I ended up pivoting and flipping my bathroom from the west side or sorry, the east side to the west side, and it actually was the best choice, but it took like all the slowdowns in the project to make that decision.
• 55:46
  Douglas: And the that's something I've been working on the last year or two is instead of looking at the problems, looking at the opportunities.
• 55:56
  Shelby: Yes.
• 55:58
  Douglas: Because with everything, there's a plus and a minus to it.
• 56:01
  Douglas: True.
• 56:02
  Douglas: And I've there was a documentary about Garth Brooks several years ago.
• 56:06
  Douglas: I I watched a few years ago on Netflix, and he was talking about you know the blessing and the curses.
• 56:12
  Douglas: It's great having this fame and this money, but you're away from your family.
• 56:17
  Douglas: You're it's just all these sides, the two sides of the coin with everything.
• 56:22
  Douglas: And he went on this whole list, and I was like, that's a much better way to look at it.
• 56:27
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 56:27
  Douglas: Because uh the same thing with the bad things, it's like, well, yeah, you're missing time with, but then you have the money to send them to college without them having any student loan.
• 56:35
  Douglas: You know, it's and then figuring out for yourself which one is more important.
• 56:40
  Douglas: Because then a lot of this stuff you can choose which side of the coin you want to invest in.
• 56:45
  Shelby: True.
• 56:47
  Douglas: That's true.
• 56:48
  Shelby: I think it's easy to get frustrated and discouraged, but I think that's where it's like for me when I start to feel like that pressure tank is building, I'm like, okay, go for a walk.
• 56:58
  Shelby: Go eat, actually.
• 57:00
  Shelby: A lot of the time people are just hungry.
• 57:02
  Shelby: I know that's a weird thing to say out loud, but that's one thing I realized.
• 57:04
  Shelby: Like um when I started doing that bodybuilding stuff, we're in whatever Mud Bay when I was in that house and I first started doing that whole program.
• 57:15
  Shelby: Um she had me eat a full 2,000 calorie meal and I was eating like six meals a day.
• 57:20
  Shelby: I'd never I was like gulping food down.
• 57:22
  Shelby: I'd never eaten that much before in my life.
• 57:24
  Shelby: And then I was like, oh, I'm like calm all the time now that I'm like full.
• 57:28
  Shelby: But I think people really underestimate that, truly.
• 57:32
  Shelby: Like, uh, because so much of our food is not nutritious, it's just filler.
• 57:37
  Shelby: But when you're actually eating like all of the nutrients, it's like giving your brain power, and then you're stronger mentally, more mentally fit.
• 57:45
  Shelby: And I think that for a place like this, you have to be mentally fit to survive living in a place like this, and also corporate America.
• 57:51
  Shelby: Like, there's a lot of parallels, to be honest.
• 57:54
  Shelby: Just having a good attitude, like, oh, cool.
• 57:57
  Shelby: I um literally every room in my house is annihilated and destroyed.
• 58:02
  Shelby: That's okay.
• 58:03
  Shelby: I'm gonna sleep in a sleeping bag tonight.
• 58:05
  Shelby: You know, it's okay.
• 58:06
  Shelby: You got a sleeping bag.
• 58:07
  Shelby: Yeah, exactly.
• 58:08
  Shelby: I have a roof over my head.
• 58:10
  Douglas: A roof over your head, and it's not raining on you.
• 58:12
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 58:13
  Shelby: And I'm going to Thor's gym and showering.
• 58:15
  Shelby: It's great.
• 58:16
  Douglas: And you got John Carlson cabinets together.
• 58:18
  Shelby: Yeah, exactly.
• 58:20
  Shelby: I don't have any appliances or electricity, but it's that'll come.
• 58:23
  Shelby: That'll come in time.
• 58:25
  Shelby: Exactly.
• 58:26
  Shelby: There's a lot of people that are still waiting on cabinets because they're working on yours instead of theirs.
• 58:32
  Shelby: I know, I heard that at the fair yesterday.
• 58:34
  Shelby: There's gonna be some people that are like, dang it, you need reason John hasn't worked on my cabinet.
• 58:38
  Shelby: It's like, come over and take a look.
• 58:39
  Shelby: They look beautiful.
• 58:40
  Shelby: And if you want to feel better about your project, come look at my yard because that is crazy.
• 58:46
  Douglas: Where where do you see your career going from here?
• 58:49
  Douglas: Do you have any like do you have stepping stones that you want to hit?
• 58:55
  Shelby: That is a good question.
• 58:56
  Shelby: I mean, I'm actually surrounded by women um in leadership roles right now who I I've never really had like a mentor, I think, um, in fashion.
• 59:10
  Shelby: I I've I've had some, don't get me wrong.
• 59:12
  Shelby: And like, um, but I think as far as there's one woman in particular who has four kids, she works out all the time, she's beautiful, she's cool, like she kind of commands respect.
• 59:23
  Shelby: Like we all did the personality test, like the color tests.
• 59:26
  Shelby: I don't know if you've ever done that.
• 59:27
  Shelby: But um, but like red is something like be brief, be gone, yellow is do it together, like the social one, green is do it with care, and blue is the details.
• 59:37
  Douglas: Okay.
• 59:37
  Shelby: I'm red yellow, which is uh get it done and get it done together.
• 59:42
  Douglas: Okay.
• 59:42
  Shelby: The social doer.
• 59:43
  Douglas: The social doer.
• 59:44
  Shelby: Anyway, she's the same.
• 59:45
  Shelby: And so it's very it's interesting because I'm like, whoa, like she kind of has, and of course you never know what someone's life is exactly, but I think she kind of has it all from my perspective.
• 59:53
  Shelby: And so for me, like I I don't really have a lot of aspirations uh from a career perspective, other than I want to continue to do what I'm doing and be with an organization who values me, uh, you know, or I feel seen and heard, um, maybe have a family uh down the line.
• 1:00:11
  Shelby: And for me, I think the freedom aspect, like what Alaska and in Haynes specifically has to offer, but I think the hard thing is the importance of being in person for a lot of these roles, and especially with product, like you need to see it on the model and touch it and like flip it inside out.
• 1:00:25
  Shelby: And and so I haven't really figured out what that looks like.
• 1:00:28
  Shelby: I'm hopeful that um I can kind of craft a role where I can be an executive and uh have some flexibility and freedom to kind of merge both worlds.
• 1:00:41
  Shelby: I haven't I haven't figured that out yet.
• 1:00:45
  Douglas: I sense there's a desire, or maybe not a desire, but just seeing your career path of leadership.
• 1:00:52
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  Douglas: Because with your book, trying to mentor others, you will you've you feel like you've been given a lot and you want to give back.
• 1:00:59
  Douglas: You've learned a lot over the years, and you want to give that back and help uplift the people around you, the the younger generation coming up behind you, and even the coworkers that you have now.
• 1:01:09
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:01:09
  Douglas: Is that an accurate statement that very much so, yeah.
• 1:01:12
  Shelby: Yeah, totally.
• 1:01:13
  Shelby: And I mean, like, even when it comes to Haynes, like I'm interested in economic development here in so many ways, because I see so many people with amazing ideas, and really it's just the funding, like for majority of all of the like there's not any bad ideas, but then it's also the commitment and seeing it through.
• 1:01:30
  Shelby: And I think I kind of want to be the catalyst for like some people or like I don't know, whoever wants to listen to me, I don't know.
• 1:01:36
  Shelby: Uh to help push it through because I'm a doer.
• 1:01:40
  Douglas: I think I have a really good idea, but I need a designer.
• 1:01:42
  Shelby: Oh, that's intriguing.
• 1:01:44
  Douglas: So we should we should talk after this.
• 1:01:46
  Douglas: I don't know if I don't know if you think your skill set's gonna be the right kind of designer for what I'm looking for, but we can talk about it and see.
• 1:01:53
  Shelby: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:54
  Shelby: I'm kind of I'm kind of all in on my current venture, but uh yeah.
• 1:02:00
  Douglas: Maybe you can uh point me in the right direction of some way that can help me design this.
• 1:02:03
  Shelby: There we go.
• 1:02:04
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  Shelby: So many ideas.
• 1:02:07
  Douglas: But I I really like I'm so it's one of those when you have great nieces and nephews, and then you're trying to raise them in a store, certain things come up, and it's like, yeah, you can do this better.
• 1:02:17
  Douglas: There's a better way to do this.
• 1:02:19
  Shelby: That's how all great ideas or products start, honestly.
• 1:02:21
  Douglas: And I and I think I've got a good one, but it's I I've had several parents tell me they think it's a good one, too.
• 1:02:27
  Shelby: Great.
• 1:02:28
  Douglas: Yeah, but I need somebody I need somebody to design it for me.
• 1:02:30
  Douglas: There we go.
• 1:02:31
  Douglas: I don't have the design capabilities.
• 1:02:33
  Shelby: That's tricky, yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Douglas: I can tell you exactly what it needs to be, but I don't know how to design it.
• 1:02:39
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  Shelby: Cool.
• 1:02:41
  Douglas: So we can discuss that off-air so nobody else gets it to work in the core less.
• 1:02:45
  Shelby: His proprietary idea, exactly.
• 1:02:50
  Douglas: We'll work on it.
• 1:02:51
  Shelby: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:02:52
  Shelby: I I really do feel like though, like I just want to see young people here too thrive.
• 1:02:57
  Shelby: I really do.
• 1:02:58
  Shelby: Like, I want to see a lot of these empty buildings fill up.
• 1:03:01
  Shelby: I want to see products being offered at the fair.
• 1:03:04
  Shelby: I have a lot of thoughts of like I want to see like Southeast Alaska, like all of these places merge and come together rather than um I don't know, like how do how do we make that happen?
• 1:03:19
  Shelby: That's a great question.
• 1:03:21
  Shelby: There's a lot of money out there, you just gotta find it.
• 1:03:24
  Douglas: Well, that's what I'm that's what I'm thinking.
• 1:03:26
  Douglas: Well, in in your role that you have now, as you're talking to people, is that something that you have in your back of the mind?
• 1:03:32
  Douglas: Is this something that we can is there ways that we can use this in Southeast Alaska?
• 1:03:37
  Douglas: Is there is there ways we can use have a department in Haynes, or is that just totally you're just concentrating on the fashion and this is just your everyday life where you're thinking about economic opportunities in Haynes?
• 1:03:49
  Shelby: I think that my brain's like, yeah, two different worlds.
• 1:03:51
  Shelby: Yes, for sure.
• 1:03:54
  Shelby: But um, I don't know, there's overlap because I mean um like Gore-Tex gear as an example, right?
• 1:04:01
  Shelby: Like you can wear it in Whistler, you can wear it here.
• 1:04:04
  Shelby: Like it's really comes down to brand loyalty of who you're gonna buy it from, right?
• 1:04:08
  Shelby: Because it could be Burton, it could be Nike, Patagonia, like whoever.
• 1:04:13
  Shelby: Um, but at least the name like has the trust.
• 1:04:17
  Shelby: And um, so I don't know.
• 1:04:19
  Shelby: I think it just it comes down to I don't know where you want to spend your dollars.
• 1:04:24
  Shelby: And then I think in reply to Haynes and um future opportunities for for businesses here.
• 1:04:32
  Shelby: I mean I think it's like like Travis with Deer Heart, for example, to me, I think it takes so much courage to number one have the vision, two, he's uh so committed and he's like relentless in his vision.
• 1:04:50
  Shelby: Where I think that that's what makes the authentic experience.
• 1:04:53
  Shelby: And I was so happy that Deer Heart, you know, existed this morning when I came in for brunch, and I was like, I I just I don't know.
• 1:05:00
  Shelby: I I hope that others can like kind of let go of their fear.
• 1:05:04
  Shelby: And and not everyone's meant to be an entrepreneur, but I do think that um for those who are brave enough to try or to align themselves with others who are willing to take that risk, I think is vitally important for like the success and the longevity of of young people of Haynes, because I I do worry and I think I you know, even for myself, like I made money from afar and I could have worked locally, but I just it's it's there's a lot of barriers and it's very nuanced, I think.
• 1:05:32
  Shelby: But I also think it comes down to you know what is your comfort level of what do you need to live off of for a year.
• 1:05:38
  Shelby: And and that means something different to every person.
• 1:05:42
  Douglas: And there's also a lot of risk.
• 1:05:44
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  Douglas: And there's a lot of I've I've had discussions with some people because there's different levels of um different levels of understanding of what it takes to open a business in Haynes.
• 1:05:57
  Douglas: That's so true.
• 1:05:58
  Douglas: Because it it Some you can make money right away.
• 1:06:02
  Douglas: A lot of them it takes a long time to get on the plus side of that ledger.
• 1:06:07
  Douglas: And are you comfortable working six, seven days a week in order to get to that point sooner, or are you gonna hire other people and it takes you longer?
• 1:06:18
  Douglas: You may never get to the profitability because if you hire a bunch of staff and all your money's going out in payroll, and you're you it's totally especially with our seasonal economy where the winter there's not a lot going on, summertime there's a lot going on.
• 1:06:32
  Shelby: How do you how do it's make yeah, like it's a challenge to maximize sales between basically April through September?
• 1:06:40
  Shelby: Like everyone's in that hustle, right?
• 1:06:41
  Shelby: That mindset, and then you're kind of hibernating.
• 1:06:44
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  Douglas: And whatever that means to you, whether you're still enough in those six months of the summer to get through the six months of winter, and that's what I mean by the the barriers.
• 1:06:52
  Shelby: Like there, there's the the weather barriers, there's timing, there's well just the access in the wintertime, trying to get here and in and out of here.
• 1:07:01
  Douglas: And and so what what kind of what I was thinking is what you're talking about with your job is like maybe there's a way to bring that you start your own company and you bring like four or five designers to Haynes.
• 1:07:13
  Douglas: I have that vision business plan that because then you have you have professionals that are here that if they're here year-round, you have a testing environment for multiple seasons that you can do the testing here.
• 1:07:27
  Douglas: You could still go to Hawaii to test your summer stuff or whatever.
• 1:07:30
  Douglas: Totally.
• 1:07:31
  Douglas: But um how do we how do we make that a viable alternative for somebody that wants to start a business?
• 1:07:40
  Douglas: And then and highlight what you learned for your time here, even though you weren't in that role about the self-care, about being out in the out in the nature, going out a little walking along the beach or along the river, um, seeing the northern lights in the wintertime, and and just that quality of life aspect.
• 1:08:00
  Douglas: So you kind of have the core the blend the two of your job in Vancouver and that Haynes lifestyle.
• 1:08:06
  Douglas: Is there a way are there some industries that we can make that mesh together?
• 1:08:11
  Shelby: I firmly believe that.
• 1:08:12
  Shelby: And I actually think um Nomar is an interesting case study who I've read her book, um, The Bag Lady at the end of the road, and she started her business making brailler bags out of a school bus, you know.
• 1:08:24
  Shelby: But I think the thing about being an entrepreneur is like she didn't see overnight success, just like I didn't see overnight success, right?
• 1:08:31
  Shelby: Like I made, I don't even know, like five thousand dollars off of that.
• 1:08:35
  Shelby: I mean, at the end of it, you know, something like after I made all these products and and I had to sell it wholesale and then I had to like ship it all out and I made like no money, you know what I mean?
• 1:08:43
  Shelby: Like it's hard, it's a real kick in the gut because it's like um I'm trying so hard.
• 1:08:50
  Douglas: And I think that's the thing that um yeah, to find the funding, to find the and when people when people think of that too, they look at it that okay, I've got to do all this work for $5,000, or I can go over here and during that same same period of time I can make $30,000.
• 1:09:05
  Douglas: Totally.
• 1:09:06
  Douglas: Why am I investing all this for $5,000 return when I can do six times just working a regular hourly job?
• 1:09:12
  Shelby: Totally.
• 1:09:13
  Shelby: But I think that that comes down to trade-offs, and I think that that's where it's like, you know, I'm currently going to an office about 45, 50 hours a week.
• 1:09:22
  Shelby: Whereas, you know, when I was in Haynes and Alaska's a no-income tax state, and uh I had the freedom to go on hike and do whatever I wanted and go travel and things, but um and I had I had more than enough to be happy here.
• 1:09:36
  Shelby: I did.
• 1:09:36
  Shelby: I think that there was just a part of me that desired I think it'd be I'm 35, and I I just knew that like right now is kind of my time to grind.
• 1:09:44
  Shelby: And I think I also wanted to redeem myself after the Nike chapter, and I I didn't really know what that meant, but I I do actually thrive in um a more s controlled environment because I'm I'm quite feral, and I think that's partially why I wound up here, to be honest.
• 1:10:00
  Shelby: Like I know I look civilized and I talk about this a lot, but um I I am feral and um I'm like okay, structure is good.
• 1:10:08
  Shelby: I'm like, I'm at my desk by nine or whenever, you know, and I I know I need to be here till five.
• 1:10:12
  Shelby: And sometimes I'm like walking around, I'm like, oh, I gotta do this.
• 1:10:15
  Shelby: Well, I do I actually do have time to do that.
• 1:10:17
  Shelby: My mindset has shifted a lot because I think like comparatively when I was younger, if someone asked me to do something additionally, I'd be like, I'd find all the reasons in my head not to.
• 1:10:25
  Shelby: Where the other day someone asked me to design a dress and it was due the next day.
• 1:10:29
  Shelby: And I thought to myself, ooh, I can wear that next summer?
• 1:10:32
  Shelby: That's so cute.
• 1:10:33
  Shelby: And I was like, oh, I'm for sure designing this dress.
• 1:10:35
  Shelby: And and like it just is the mindset that it was like, yeah, it was more work, but didn't actually take me that long.
• 1:10:41
  Shelby: It just required concentration.
• 1:10:43
  Douglas: Well, and what you just said there gets back to a lot of this mindset.
• 1:10:46
  Shelby: Mindset.
• 1:10:47
  Douglas: If you look at the blessing side of it compared to the curse side of it, you look to the benefit to the with the right mindset, you can do just about anything you want.
• 1:10:55
  Shelby: That's a fact.
• 1:10:56
  Shelby: That all comes down to choice.
• 1:10:58
  Douglas: All comes down to choice, and we all have the choice on what decisions we want to make each day.
• 1:11:03
  Shelby: True.
• 1:11:03
  Douglas: Sometimes I make good ones, sometimes not so much.
• 1:11:06
  Shelby: Exactly.
• 1:11:07
  Shelby: And I think that's just being better or trying better the next day.
• 1:11:10
  Shelby: You don't need to be perfect every day.
• 1:11:13
  Douglas: Well, if you're perfect on if you've been perfect on a day, God bless you, because I'm still working for that.
• 1:11:18
  Douglas: Shoot.
• 1:11:19
  Douglas: I've I fail every single day.
• 1:11:22
  Shelby: For sure.
• 1:11:22
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 1:11:23
  Douglas: So do you ever I'm assuming the answer is yes.
• 1:11:29
  Douglas: Wear clothes that you've designed.
• 1:11:31
  Douglas: So you get them, you you go through the whole process, and then they show up and you're like, yeah, I'm taking one of those home.
• 1:11:38
  Douglas: And what is the feeling like when whether you're at Nike, where you're at now, that there's something you designed, it shows up, you're wearing it, and you're like, dang, I did a good job.
• 1:11:51
  Shelby: Um, no, no, no, uh Wow, the cuts a little off on this.
• 1:11:55
  Shelby: I should have done it.
• 1:11:56
  Shelby: Um I mean, or is or you is it a little bit of both.
• 1:11:59
  Shelby: I think there are that well, some for the record, like there are a lot of things that designers can't control because they're it's a team effort, right?
• 1:12:06
  Shelby: So, like, for example, like my main job is I design the chassis or I design the block.
• 1:12:10
  Shelby: So like I would design the exact like sleeve length, the body length, like the details, and then usually someone else will do color, and then someone else will put graphics on it.
• 1:12:20
  Shelby: So that could be where the logo's placed or interior graphics, whatever.
• 1:12:24
  Shelby: And so for me, probably the my best work or probably my the style that I think I've worn the most out of anything I've ever made would be the Wolf Tree Polar Tech 100 half zip.
• 1:12:37
  Shelby: And it has little zippers on the like kangaroo pocket.
• 1:12:41
  Shelby: Um, but that material to me, it just performs in a way that it does everything I need it to do.
• 1:12:48
  Shelby: Like if I want to sleep in it, it's great.
• 1:12:50
  Shelby: If I want to camp in it, hike in it, I mean it's too hot for running, but like for running, there's the I don't know if you know what Polar Tech Alpha is.
• 1:12:56
  Shelby: It's like really yeah, super popular right now.
• 1:12:59
  Shelby: But that to me is like the ultimate fabric for ski touring.
• 1:13:02
  Shelby: So then I would just like swap out the 100 for the alpha if I'm doing like more aerobic sports.
• 1:13:07
  Shelby: So, like for me, yeah, those are the two things that I'm most proud of.
• 1:13:10
  Shelby: But what I'm doing right now, I'm so excited for because I'm in the gym all the time.
• 1:13:15
  Shelby: Where before I was doing outdoor and now I'm doing more like um fitness, like Pilates, and I am a yoga teacher, so like that kind of stuff is really inspiring me because that's what I'm wearing the most of.
• 1:13:28
  Douglas: Okay.
• 1:13:28
  Shelby: Um, where I haven't been doing like a lot of outdoor stuff, minus skiing.
• 1:13:32
  Shelby: That's like I don't really like uh the congestion of all the people everywhere down south.
• 1:13:40
  Shelby: So I haven't done a ton of like backpacking.
• 1:13:43
  Douglas: It's a little hard to get used to that again after you've been in Main for a few years, doesn't it, Shelly?
• 1:13:48
  Shelby: I know, I know.
• 1:13:49
  Shelby: That's why this place is so great.
• 1:13:51
  Shelby: Yeah, I should have done Riley today, actually.
• 1:13:53
  Shelby: Well, the main issue is honestly my dog.
• 1:13:58
  Shelby: I have a Newfoundland and she gets so much attention.
• 1:14:01
  Shelby: Okay.
• 1:14:02
  Shelby: Yeah, one of my hairstylists who I hang out with regularly, she's memorized all the fun facts about her.
• 1:14:06
  Shelby: And she'll be like, her name's Ursa, she's six years old, she weighs 140 pounds, she had 11 puppies once.
• 1:14:12
  Shelby: What other questions do you have?
• 1:14:13
  Shelby: I'm like, wow.
• 1:14:14
  Shelby: Like that is truly like I'm stopped at least 10 times a day in Vancouver about the dog.
• 1:14:20
  Douglas: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:14:21
  Douglas: So what what's next up for Shelby?
• 1:14:25
  Shelby: Woo.
• 1:14:25
  Shelby: Um, yeah, I'm gonna work on my house, obviously.
• 1:14:28
  Shelby: And then um I think for me, I'm moving.
• 1:14:32
  Shelby: I'm moving to uh Mount Seymour, actually.
• 1:14:35
  Douglas: Um is that outside of Vancouver somewhere?
• 1:14:37
  Shelby: Yeah, like Deep Cove area.
• 1:14:38
  Shelby: Okay.
• 1:14:39
  Shelby: So I was in Kitsalano, which is like the beach and lots of like nightlife and things, so I'm going to more quiet area.
• 1:14:47
  Douglas: Okay.
• 1:14:48
  Shelby: Probably as close to Haynes as I'm gonna get.
• 1:14:50
  Shelby: Get in the Vancouver.
• 1:14:51
  Shelby: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:14:52
  Shelby: 100%.
• 1:14:52
  Shelby: Which initially I went out there and I was like, oh, this is kind of weird.
• 1:14:56
  Shelby: And then I'm like, but this makes sense, like because it was just quiet.
• 1:14:59
  Shelby: There's like nothing around, you know?
• 1:15:01
  Shelby: And I'm like, well, for the city, but there's a lot of like you have to use like key fobs to get in everywhere, and there's like you know, all these like rules.
• 1:15:08
  Shelby: So that's like the one thing that I don't like.
• 1:15:10
  Shelby: Like I love just walking my dog off leash and things, like that's unheard of there, you know.
• 1:15:16
  Shelby: Things we take for granted here that are so great.
• 1:15:19
  Shelby: Yes, yeah.
• 1:15:20
  Shelby: But I do I do love both places for different reasons for sure.
• 1:15:25
  Douglas: So, what what have we missed in the Shelby Steiner story?
• 1:15:28
  Douglas: Uh highlights or bumps in the road or anything that we glossed over or went past that we should go back and revisit.
• 1:15:37
  Shelby: Probably just stay tuned for my book.
• 1:15:39
  Shelby: Stay tuned for my book.
• 1:15:40
  Shelby: We're probably gonna talk about a lot of these things just in more detail.
• 1:15:43
  Douglas: So, what's the name of the book?
• 1:15:44
  Shelby: Apparel designer playbook.
• 1:15:45
  Douglas: Apparel designer playbook.
• 1:15:46
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:15:47
  Douglas: Coming soon to a bookshelf near you.
• 1:15:49
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:15:49
  Shelby: It's not just for designers for the record, but that is kind of like I try to talk to my younger self when I write it.
• 1:15:55
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:15:56
  Shelby: But I talk a lot about my personal life and and also professional.
• 1:16:01
  Douglas: I thought we were just gonna talk about fashion, and then we're gonna talk with you about writing a book.
• 1:16:04
  Douglas: That's cool.
• 1:16:05
  Shelby: Congratulations.
• 1:16:06
  Shelby: I think you gotta be a little sick in the head to write a book.
• 1:16:09
  Shelby: I'm like, man, I like I every time I like open my computer, I'm like, oh, I gotta relive that chapter of my life.
• 1:16:15
  Shelby: Oh, but then sometimes I'm like, whew, that felt good, you know.
• 1:16:19
  Douglas: So any anytime I start writing, it I can I can I can write for half an hour, an hour.
• 1:16:25
  Douglas: And as soon as I go back and start reading it, I'm like, that sucks, delete.
• 1:16:29
  Douglas: Well, that sucks, delete.
• 1:16:32
  Shelby: I know.
• 1:16:32
  Shelby: That's the hard thing.
• 1:16:33
  Shelby: I actually one of my favorite things to do is to walk in the forest with my dog, and I'll do a voice memo.
• 1:16:38
  Shelby: Okay.
• 1:16:38
  Shelby: Because then it comes out of my voice, like how I would be talking to you right now, and then I can refine it a little bit, tweak it.
• 1:16:44
  Shelby: But I think the flow of information, it just comes more naturally.
• 1:16:48
  Shelby: And I think when it's a conversation, for me, at least when I read a book, like I'm reading Chip Wilson's book called Little Black Pants or something.
• 1:16:56
  Shelby: Um he's the founder of Lululemon.
• 1:16:58
  Shelby: And um, I just think he I think he's great, even though he's a controversial figure, because if you go to his website, he actually has like six books that he recommends.
• 1:17:06
  Shelby: I've read all of all the books that he recommends.
• 1:17:08
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  Shelby: But he he's um he's a storyteller and he talks a lot about like how he was a swimmer and he started designing shorts with gussets because they were like chafing when he was a competitive swimmer, and like so he's always ideating while he creates, and he's a visionary.
• 1:17:24
  Shelby: I just like I just like entrepreneurs, even if they are a little crazy or they do things that are wrong.
• 1:17:28
  Douglas: It's like well, I think to be an entrepreneur you have to be a little crazy.
• 1:17:32
  Shelby: I think that's true.
• 1:17:32
  Douglas: If you're gonna get ahead of the curve, yeah, you gotta be you're thinking differently than everybody else.
• 1:17:37
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:17:38
  Shelby: And I love Steve Jobs.
• 1:17:40
  Douglas: Yes.
• 1:17:41
  Shelby: I do.
• 1:17:42
  Douglas: Another person that was a little crazy, but you look at what he what he created.
• 1:17:46
  Shelby: Yeah, I went to Reed College partially because of Steve.
• 1:17:49
  Douglas: Really?
• 1:17:49
  Douglas: Yeah.
• 1:17:51
  Shelby: Oh, I did grad school um for a while.
• 1:17:53
  Shelby: Okay.
• 1:17:53
  Shelby: So the political science.
• 1:17:55
  Shelby: I was gonna say, here's the total.
• 1:17:56
  Shelby: But I was gonna keep like dropping more like, okay, we're gonna be filming for 10 hours.
• 1:18:00
  Shelby: No, I'm just fine.
• 1:18:01
  Douglas: So you were wait, political science?
• 1:18:03
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:18:03
  Shelby: Well, it's like Masters of Liberal Studies, but I just became one of my favorite teachers all time, Chris Koske.
• 1:18:08
  Shelby: Um I just tried to take as many classes as I could with him.
• 1:18:11
  Shelby: But I didn't know.
• 1:18:12
  Douglas: Where did the political science aspect come out of this?
• 1:18:15
  Shelby: I was student body president in high school, and I loved politics.
• 1:18:18
  Shelby: Okay.
• 1:18:18
  Shelby: I was just gonna say I also hate it too.
• 1:18:21
  Douglas: I was just like fashion design and political science aren't necessarily thought to be melded together.
• 1:18:28
  Shelby: Uh I'm not an expert on any of that by any means.
• 1:18:30
  Shelby: I think it was just more.
• 1:18:31
  Douglas: You just have a passion for learning more about it, is that what it was?
• 1:18:33
  Douglas: I think so.
• 1:18:34
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:18:34
  Shelby: Yeah.
• 1:18:35
  Shelby: And I think my where I even though I was so um driven in at Columbia to get done, like with my degree, I was always like, come on, like, go to the next thing.
• 1:18:46
  Shelby: I really struggled with writing and rhetoric, actually.
• 1:18:49
  Shelby: And I struggled with communicating my ideas and read college.
• 1:18:53
  Shelby: Uh even though I only I did I think ten classes there, and it was the most intense, the most rigorous program I've ever done in my whole life.
• 1:19:00
  Shelby: Really?
• 1:19:01
  Shelby: And I that helped me, that program helped me communicate when I was at Nike and selling my ideas and presenting in front of executives and things like that.
• 1:19:10
  Shelby: Um even though it was like, yeah, I took stem cell research and regenerative medicine and um anthropology, like what else?
• 1:19:20
  Shelby: There was like so many wild classes, mysticism in the mind.
• 1:19:24
  Shelby: It was like all over the place.
• 1:19:25
  Shelby: It was cre global health during COVID.
• 1:19:27
  Shelby: That was my final paper.
• 1:19:29
  Shelby: So much to unpack.
• 1:19:32
  Shelby: But anyway, I think it's just more of a communicate thinking critically and then being able to communicate your argument.
• 1:19:37
  Shelby: And I think that's so important, no matter whether you're pitching a new fashion design or you're, I don't know, coming up with a new business plan.
• 1:19:43
  Shelby: Like to be succinct, articulate, and clear to your audience, I think is vitally important.
• 1:19:49
  Shelby: Otherwise, like if you're people are confused, they can't follow what you're saying.
• 1:19:54
  Shelby: It's like you're people just gonna drop out or they're not gonna be interested.
• 1:19:58
  Shelby: So I try my best, but I also kind of go, sometimes I'm like, okay, focus.
• 1:20:05
  Douglas: I think all of us have that.
• 1:20:07
  Douglas: So any other any other detours that we missed?
• 1:20:10
  Shelby: Those are all the detours I can think of at this time, but we can check in like a year from now.
• 1:20:14
  Douglas: Check in a year from now, we can do an update.
• 1:20:16
  Shelby: Update when the apparel designer playbook comes out.
• 1:20:18
  Shelby: How about that?
• 1:20:18
  Shelby: All right, yeah.
• 1:20:19
  Douglas: Deal.
• 1:20:20
  Shelby: All right.
• 1:20:21
  Douglas: Well, thank you.
• 1:20:21
  Douglas: Thanks again, and I hope you enjoy your week in Haynes and you make progress on your house.
• 1:20:26
  Shelby: Thank you very much.
• 1:20:26
  Douglas: All right, cool.
• 1:20:27
  Douglas: Take care.