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The Last Victim with Tracy Hall · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello.
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Speaker 2: My name is Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order
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Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
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Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
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Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
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Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
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Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
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Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
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Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
0:31
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
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Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to a very different episode of She's
1:00
Speaker 1: on the Money. I'm Victory de Vine and I usually
1:03
Speaker 1: bring you all the info, tips and tricks to educate
1:05
Speaker 1: you and set you on your journey towards financial independence.
1:09
Speaker 1: But sometimes even with all the knowledge in the world
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Speaker 1: and the know how and the emergency fund and the
1:14
Speaker 1: investment portfolio, things just don't go to plan. This is
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Speaker 1: exactly what happened to Tracy Hall in twenty sixteen. Tracy
1:22
Speaker 1: signed up to a little dating app after separating from
1:25
Speaker 1: her husband. This is where she met Max ta Vita.
1:28
Speaker 1: Max was a great listener, adventurous, and came into her
1:31
Speaker 1: life at exactly the right time. That was until one
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Speaker 1: day in twenty seventeen, she missed a call from Max.
1:38
Speaker 1: When she called back, no answer. The pair usually spoke
1:41
Speaker 1: several times a day, and when she didn't hear from him,
1:44
Speaker 1: she grew really worried and called the police to do
1:46
Speaker 1: a welfare check on him. After she placed the call,
1:49
Speaker 1: she received a message from a friend telling her to
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Speaker 1: check out a link to a video and call her
1:54
Speaker 1: straight away. That moment is when Tracy's life turned upside down. Tracy, Hello,
2:00
Speaker 1: Hi Rick, Tracy's joined us in the studio to share
2:03
Speaker 1: her story. Welcome to She's on the Money. Thank you
2:06
Speaker 1: for having me. I'm low key very excited about this
2:09
Speaker 1: story because it's a little bit of a different twist
2:12
Speaker 1: on She's on the Money. But let's start at the
2:15
Speaker 1: very start. How'd you meet Max? Like you said, I
2:18
Speaker 1: had separated from my husband about a year before, and
2:21
Speaker 1: I decided that I was ready to meet someone. I
2:24
Speaker 1: wanted some companionship in my life, someone to do the
2:26
Speaker 1: things that I like doing, with similar interests and values
2:29
Speaker 1: and morals, and so I decided to go on the
2:32
Speaker 1: dating apps. I met my husband on a dating app, so, like,
2:35
Speaker 1: there are some good stories on that when you're a
2:37
Speaker 1: bit nervy, like coming out of a marriage and going
2:39
Speaker 1: on a dating app. Because when I met my husband,
2:42
Speaker 1: dating apps didn't exist. No, it would have been in
2:44
Speaker 1: your world. Yeah, it was a whole new world. And
2:46
Speaker 1: obviously I was in my early forties, so it was
2:48
Speaker 1: just a bit. It doesn't looked like you're in your
2:50
Speaker 1: early forties, so you want a dating app, you would
2:54
Speaker 1: have been hot property. I reckon. Did you go on
2:57
Speaker 1: a few dates before meeting Max or yeah? A few?
3:00
Speaker 1: It was fun. I mean it was slim Pickings and
3:02
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a jungle, so it's wild out there.
3:05
Speaker 1: It is pretty crazy, and my friends and I had
3:08
Speaker 1: you know, we got some great content. We had a
3:09
Speaker 1: few laughs, and you know, they were following along my journey.
3:12
Speaker 1: But I guess I knew that, yeah I did. You know.
3:15
Speaker 1: I knew that I wasn't going to meet some great guy,
3:17
Speaker 1: you know, if I was sitting in front of my
3:18
Speaker 1: TV on a Monday night, So it was the only
3:21
Speaker 1: way I was going to meet someone. And I swiped
3:24
Speaker 1: right on Max and he looked pretty normal compared to
3:27
Speaker 1: some of the other looking guys, and for a little
3:30
Speaker 1: dream he had a beautiful smile and blue eyes, and
3:33
Speaker 1: his photos were just things he liked doing, like surfing
3:36
Speaker 1: and running and paddle boarding and things like that. So
3:38
Speaker 1: I just thought he looked pretty normal, sounds like a
3:40
Speaker 1: dream boat. So that's what drew you to him, Like,
3:42
Speaker 1: you went on a date, How did it go after that? Well,
3:45
Speaker 1: it took us a while to go on a date
3:47
Speaker 1: because I sort of was on a limited schedule because
3:49
Speaker 1: I was a single mom. And we went on a date.
3:51
Speaker 1: We went for dinner and it was pretty low key.
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Speaker 1: It was not a very long dinner. He didn't really drink.
3:57
Speaker 1: I was working really long hours at the time, and
3:59
Speaker 1: I was quite tired. I think I yawned at one point,
4:02
Speaker 1: Oh my god, which is awful. That is what it is,
4:05
Speaker 1: awful behavior. But he said, oh, you look really tired.
4:07
Speaker 1: I'll get you home. And he was just really caring
4:10
Speaker 1: and he was a great listener. He was very engaging.
4:13
Speaker 1: He was funny, kind of like an Aussie Larakan in
4:15
Speaker 1: a way. We had a similar upbringing in Australia, so
4:18
Speaker 1: we had a lot in common. It sounds like a
4:19
Speaker 1: dream so far. Like it was pretty I mean, as
4:22
Speaker 1: far as first dates went, it was pretty good. Yeah,
4:25
Speaker 1: no good, he got you home, you were tired, amazing.
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Speaker 2: Ye.
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Speaker 1: Were there any red flags at all? I mean throughout
4:31
Speaker 1: the time we dated, Yes, of course, But because I
4:35
Speaker 1: feel like I'm the kind of girl like I went
4:37
Speaker 1: on a few dates before meeting Steve, and like there'd
4:40
Speaker 1: be red flags that whenever real red flags, I just
4:42
Speaker 1: think they were because you know, you're being quite picky
4:44
Speaker 1: at the very start. Yeah, you're watching out for those things.
4:47
Speaker 1: Like he came to pick me up in the city
4:50
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to double park or park in
4:52
Speaker 1: the no parking zone and come in and meet the
4:54
Speaker 1: friend I was having a drink with after work because
4:57
Speaker 1: of the parking situation. But when we got to the restaurant,
5:00
Speaker 1: he parked in a no parking zone and he was like,
5:03
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, I'll just pay the fine. I was like, yeah,
5:05
Speaker 1: but ten minutes ago, like this in my head, I'm like,
5:07
Speaker 1: ten minutes ago, you didn't even want to come in
5:09
Speaker 1: and meet my friend. Oh, that's really weird. So it
5:11
Speaker 1: was just weird, But at the time, you know, things
5:14
Speaker 1: move on really quickly, and you just kind of like
5:16
Speaker 1: people do weird things anyway, Like I would do things
5:19
Speaker 1: on a first date that people might think of strange,
5:21
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm just weird. Like you've got to balance
5:25
Speaker 1: it out. Everyone's got their own cooks, So you go
5:27
Speaker 1: all right moving on. And I was like, it's your cart,
5:30
Speaker 1: it's your license, it's your money. That's really It's okay,
5:33
Speaker 1: so nice. So all of it was going really well.
5:36
Speaker 1: You were dating for a while. Obviously, you know there
5:39
Speaker 1: are some red flags, but nothing to kind of like
5:42
Speaker 1: draw so much attention that you need to like get
5:44
Speaker 1: a private investigator on your new boyfriend, right and suspect anything. No, no,
5:48
Speaker 1: of course not. And then you got a miss call.
5:50
Speaker 1: You'd flown back from a trip to Byron Bay and
5:53
Speaker 1: he was driving back down. But after you received the
5:56
Speaker 1: missed call from him, you didn't hear from him again.
5:58
Speaker 1: What happened that day, Well, this was nearly eighteen months
6:01
Speaker 1: after we first started going out, and I spent the
6:03
Speaker 1: whole day trying to get in touch with him, and
6:06
Speaker 1: there was no answer, and I started to get really
6:09
Speaker 1: worried and spent the night looking for people he knew.
6:11
Speaker 1: His family, trying to get in touch with him, and
6:14
Speaker 1: I woke up super early the next morning and I
6:16
Speaker 1: called Bondi Police because I hadn't heard from him, and
6:19
Speaker 1: I would honest, yeah, it's eighteen months, like I know
6:23
Speaker 1: that if you're like twenty eighteen months feels like forever,
6:26
Speaker 1: like when you're a single mum as well. That's a
6:28
Speaker 1: serious relationship. Was a serious relationship. We were very close,
6:31
Speaker 1: we were very intimate, and we'd just been away for
6:33
Speaker 1: a weekend and it was just very very unusual. We
6:35
Speaker 1: spoke multiple times a day, like either text or what's
6:38
Speaker 1: up or whatever, and I didn't hear from him. So
6:41
Speaker 1: I asked Bondi Police to do a wellness check on him.
6:44
Speaker 1: Gave them all the details of him, and in the meantime,
6:48
Speaker 1: I received a call from a girlfriend of mine and
6:50
Speaker 1: she said, how are you And I said, haven't slept
6:52
Speaker 1: a wink. Something's happened to Max. I'm really worried. I
6:55
Speaker 1: don't know what's happened. I haven't heard from him. And
6:58
Speaker 1: she said, I'm going to send you a link and
6:59
Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, he's dead. There's been an accident.
7:01
Speaker 1: He accident link or something or like a shark attack
7:05
Speaker 1: or he's been like something's happened while he's been so good.
7:07
Speaker 1: I would have felt so sick. I felt ill, and
7:09
Speaker 1: she said he's not dead. Just opened the link and
7:11
Speaker 1: called me straight back. And I opened the link and
7:14
Speaker 1: it was the video of him being arrested outside of
7:17
Speaker 1: his apartment, and his face was all blurred out, but
7:19
Speaker 1: of course I knew it was his body. Yeah, and
7:21
Speaker 1: you know his apartment. I knew it was him. And
7:25
Speaker 1: that's when the world turned upside down for me. That's insane.
7:30
Speaker 1: So when you saw that video and you finally saw
7:34
Speaker 1: a crime stoppers video and realized that was your boyfriend,
7:37
Speaker 1: were you like what the hell? Obviously you had no
7:40
Speaker 1: idea what's he being arrested for? Like what conclusions did
7:43
Speaker 1: you jump to it that? Well, the headlines were, you know,
7:46
Speaker 1: Bondai businessman forty seven, superannuation fraud with these types of
7:50
Speaker 1: broad headlines, and I was like that it's this must
7:54
Speaker 1: be something wrong because Max is forty two. You know.
7:57
Speaker 1: These were the weird things that were going on my
7:59
Speaker 1: head because I was like, he's wrong, like at some point,
8:02
Speaker 1: how dramatic, Yeah, just so bizarre. And I called back
8:05
Speaker 1: Bondi police and I said, you don't need to do
8:07
Speaker 1: a wellness check. The man that lives at that address
8:09
Speaker 1: has been arrested. And they said, yes, we know, but
8:12
Speaker 1: the person who lives there, his age, he's everything about
8:15
Speaker 1: that man is not the man who lives at that address.
8:17
Speaker 1: And I said, but it is, because who you're looking
8:19
Speaker 1: forward to, Racy, And he said the policeman said, it's
8:23
Speaker 1: not that person, it's a different person. I said, well,
8:25
Speaker 1: who is it? What's it? You know, what's his name?
8:28
Speaker 1: And they said, you need to deal with investigators that
8:30
Speaker 1: are on the case, and they couldn't tell you any information.
8:33
Speaker 1: So you've just found out that your boyfriend isn't who
8:36
Speaker 1: you thought he was, and you're on the phone to
8:39
Speaker 1: someone who's like, yeah, also, Tracy, I'm not telling you.
8:41
Speaker 1: You can go find out from someone else. Yeah, And
8:43
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of a legal case at that point,
8:46
Speaker 1: so you know they understand. But at the same time,
8:49
Speaker 1: your shell shot. Yeah, my brain was just going crazy.
8:51
Speaker 1: And then not long after, I received a text from
8:53
Speaker 1: his brother in law, who I'd been trying to get
8:55
Speaker 1: in touch with, and it's said in the text, Tracy
8:58
Speaker 1: called me on this number urgently. Chris and brackets. He
9:00
Speaker 1: wrote Hamish's brother in law and I called him immediately
9:04
Speaker 1: and I said, Chris, who the fuck is Hamish? And
9:06
Speaker 1: he said Hamish McLaren And I said, well, who is
9:09
Speaker 1: Max Tavita? What is going on? You know? And I've
9:11
Speaker 1: heard of Hamish No, And of course, armed with his
9:15
Speaker 1: real name, I could look on the internet and find
9:18
Speaker 1: out everything about him. Oh my god, this is wild,
9:21
Speaker 1: and I know it actually gets juicier. So let's go
9:23
Speaker 1: to a really quick break and on the flip side,
9:26
Speaker 1: we're going to hear more about Tracy's guard reaching story.
9:33
Speaker 1: Welcome back to today's very special and very different episode of
9:37
Speaker 1: She's on the Money without very special guest Tracy Hall.
9:40
Speaker 1: Now Tracy. After a call to the police asking for
9:43
Speaker 1: a welfare check on your boyfriend, finding out that he
9:47
Speaker 1: wasn't who he said he was, You've got this video
9:49
Speaker 1: of your boyfriend being arrested. You got a text message
9:52
Speaker 1: from a brother in law stating that your boyfriend's name
9:55
Speaker 1: was actually Hamish and not Max. Where's your head at?
9:59
Speaker 1: I don't know? It was doing circles. And I then
10:03
Speaker 1: had a conversation with the investigators who were working on
10:06
Speaker 1: the case. Who could confirm that Max Stevina was in
10:09
Speaker 1: fact Hamish McLaren and he had defrauded multiple people out
10:14
Speaker 1: of a lot of money, and that I needed to
10:16
Speaker 1: get to the police station immediately. Now, if somebody called
10:19
Speaker 1: me and said, Victoria, your husband has defrauded multiple people,
10:24
Speaker 1: I would deny till I die. Like I'd immediately be like,
10:28
Speaker 1: absolutely not, Like that is not the person. I know,
10:30
Speaker 1: that is not what happened, Like I would die on
10:34
Speaker 1: that hill, Like I just unequivocally know that. I would
10:37
Speaker 1: immediately go. I don't know, faced with some proof, I
10:41
Speaker 1: think I'd just be in a whirlwind of confusion. What
10:44
Speaker 1: did you do next? I was in a cafe with
10:47
Speaker 1: a girlfriend. My head was spinning, and I was looking
10:50
Speaker 1: up who Hamish McLaren was on the internet, and prior
10:54
Speaker 1: to even this case and this arrest, there was a
10:57
Speaker 1: lot of misconduct over a long period of time, and
11:01
Speaker 1: there had been a lot written about him, and so
11:04
Speaker 1: armed with his name, I could look at these articles
11:07
Speaker 1: on the Internet and start to realize pretty quickly that
11:09
Speaker 1: I was dealing with something way worse than when I
11:13
Speaker 1: originally thought. And so that's when I just went straight
11:16
Speaker 1: to the detectives and I sat down with them, and
11:19
Speaker 1: they explained things to me very broadly, like I didn't
11:22
Speaker 1: know how many victims there were, I didn't know how
11:24
Speaker 1: much money. But they asked me to gather all of
11:28
Speaker 1: my information, and I literally had to put together nearly
11:31
Speaker 1: eighteen months of my life that had happened, every statement,
11:35
Speaker 1: every email, every room wants up message, yeah, every memory,
11:40
Speaker 1: every document he had ever provided me, every everything. And
11:44
Speaker 1: I had to work with them over the next ensuing
11:46
Speaker 1: weeks to kind of put together that puzzle and explain
11:51
Speaker 1: to them how Hamish had sort of deceived me in that.
11:53
Speaker 1: And that's when I started to realize that he had
11:56
Speaker 1: stolen my life savings. He'd stolen three hundred and seventy
12:00
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of your money. Is that right?
12:02
Speaker 2: Yeah?
12:02
Speaker 1: Everything? Absolutely everything. How was your mental health throughout this?
12:07
Speaker 1: Because I can just imagine being told, as I said before,
12:10
Speaker 1: I'd be denied till I die. But then you get
12:12
Speaker 1: like confronted with some facts. Yeah, and I feel like
12:15
Speaker 1: you have to flip the narrative and go hold on,
12:18
Speaker 1: I think these guys are correct. Did you hear from
12:21
Speaker 1: Hamish slash Max?
12:23
Speaker 2: Yeah?
12:23
Speaker 1: I did. He had called me from jail a few times,
12:26
Speaker 1: and then he sent me some letters that was in
12:29
Speaker 1: sort of the two to six months after he was arrested.
12:31
Speaker 1: So that went on for quite a while. But I
12:34
Speaker 1: pretty quickly realized that I was never going to get
12:36
Speaker 1: the truth from him. It was all just a I
12:38
Speaker 1: don't know, like a three hundred and seventeen thousand dollar
12:41
Speaker 1: carrot that he was dangling in front of my face
12:43
Speaker 1: to get me to go and see him. And I
12:45
Speaker 1: was never going to see that money again. I was
12:47
Speaker 1: never going to get the truth from him. So I
12:49
Speaker 1: decided never to do that. Yeah, and I think you
12:52
Speaker 1: sound so level headed, like you sound so well rounded
12:56
Speaker 1: talking about this, because I think I would have gone
12:58
Speaker 1: into a spin, like if you've got three hundred and
13:00
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand dollars of my money, I'll go see you,
13:03
Speaker 1: I'll work it out, like how did you work out
13:07
Speaker 1: what to do? And it sounds like you've done absolutely
13:09
Speaker 1: everything right. I'd be the person that did it wrong,
13:12
Speaker 1: Like I would be going to jail and being like,
13:14
Speaker 1: what did you do? Please tell me, and like probably
13:16
Speaker 1: believing parts of it. I was so tempted, because of
13:19
Speaker 1: course I was thinking that maybe there's just a way
13:22
Speaker 1: that I can get a piece of information, or he
13:24
Speaker 1: can tell me how to get my money back. It
13:26
Speaker 1: was so tempting, of course, but I mean, I just
13:29
Speaker 1: had to look at the facts and look at the
13:31
Speaker 1: past sixteen months of my life and my relationship with him,
13:34
Speaker 1: and know very quickly that everything was just a lie,
13:36
Speaker 1: that why would he suddenly start telling me the truth?
13:39
Speaker 1: And I just had to work with what I had.
13:42
Speaker 1: I had to face the facts. I was kind of
13:44
Speaker 1: dealing with this sort of duel thing. So there was
13:46
Speaker 1: like all of the very practical things that I had
13:48
Speaker 1: to do, working with the police, untangling a non compliance
13:51
Speaker 1: superannuation fund, looking at a tax refund that may or
13:54
Speaker 1: may not have been fraudulent, you know, pulling together all
13:57
Speaker 1: of this information. And then of course I had all
13:59
Speaker 1: of the very emotional things to deal with, which was
14:02
Speaker 1: essentially this man that I've been in love with. I
14:04
Speaker 1: had to fall out of love with him in like
14:06
Speaker 1: a hot minute, like less than twenty four hours, and
14:10
Speaker 1: it was like a death. So I was grieving a relationship.
14:13
Speaker 1: But then I felt bad for grieving a relationship because
14:15
Speaker 1: he was a con man and it wasn't a real relationship.
14:18
Speaker 1: And then of course I had my daughter to like,
14:21
Speaker 1: life just had to carry on, and I had a job,
14:24
Speaker 1: and I thank my lucky stars that I had that
14:26
Speaker 1: job because it is what pulled me out. And I
14:29
Speaker 1: think my lucky stars I had my daughter because she's
14:31
Speaker 1: what pulled me out as well. My god, So you're
14:33
Speaker 1: three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars down. I'm an ex
14:37
Speaker 1: financial advisor and this just sends me into a spin.
14:41
Speaker 1: I know that Hamish McLaren is responsible for stealing millions
14:46
Speaker 1: of dollars from people, but even to get your hands
14:49
Speaker 1: on three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars, how did that eventuate?
14:53
Speaker 1: Because you are a smart woman, you've clearly got your
14:56
Speaker 1: head screwed on, and to be honest, you're dealing with
14:58
Speaker 1: this at this point way better than I ever would have.
15:01
Speaker 1: So how does he get his dirty little mits on
15:04
Speaker 1: your money? It was the way I explain it. It's
15:06
Speaker 1: like he created a movie. So he created this life
15:10
Speaker 1: over a period of eighteen months or nearly eighteen months,
15:13
Speaker 1: where there were sets, there were scenes, there were characters
15:16
Speaker 1: that he created to present himself as a chief financial
15:19
Speaker 1: investment officer for a family office. I overheard conversations. There
15:23
Speaker 1: were the Bloomberg monitors, there were the fake reports, there
15:26
Speaker 1: were the investment accounts. He set this whole world up
15:28
Speaker 1: for me to believe that he was who he actually was,
15:31
Speaker 1: and this is what course of control and grooming looks
15:33
Speaker 1: like in this situation. And by the time it got
15:38
Speaker 1: to sort of a year down the track, and he
15:39
Speaker 1: was asking me about my superannuation and what I was
15:43
Speaker 1: doing and how much I was paying in fees. Everything
15:46
Speaker 1: that he had said to me previously was lining up,
15:48
Speaker 1: and I thought he was the perfect person to help
15:50
Speaker 1: me invest Why wouldn't my money exactly. And it's kind
15:53
Speaker 1: of like if someone says to me, I've worked in
15:55
Speaker 1: marketing for twenty five years, someone says to me they've
15:57
Speaker 1: got a small business, and they go, you know, I
15:59
Speaker 1: need to help with this, or what would you do here?
16:02
Speaker 1: People would listen to me, because you know, the difference
16:04
Speaker 1: is I don't have ill intent. But he presented himself
16:07
Speaker 1: as someone who wanted to help me be more financially independent.
16:11
Speaker 1: This was his line of work. I'd overheard countless conversations,
16:15
Speaker 1: so by the time we got to that point, there
16:18
Speaker 1: was not a shadow of a doubt in my mind
16:19
Speaker 1: that he was the right person to do that. So
16:22
Speaker 1: he convinced me to set up a self managed super fund,
16:24
Speaker 1: and he groomed me through that whole process, and I
16:27
Speaker 1: took my twenty two year career superannuation savings and funds
16:32
Speaker 1: into out of my fund and into a self managed
16:35
Speaker 1: super fund. And then there were some other things like shares,
16:38
Speaker 1: and I'd work for tech for a long time, US
16:40
Speaker 1: tech companies, and he had every commentary about you know,
16:45
Speaker 1: Trump's antics and how that was going to impact the
16:47
Speaker 1: US economy and that's why I should take my shares
16:50
Speaker 1: out right now and do this. So he just groomed
16:52
Speaker 1: me through the whole process, really, and I trusted him.
16:55
Speaker 1: I loved him. I thought were building a future together.
16:58
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you, Why wouldn't I didn't suspect anything. And that's how,
17:02
Speaker 1: in the end, how he got my life savings. And
17:04
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where so many people will
17:07
Speaker 1: think that could never happen to me, Like they get
17:10
Speaker 1: on their high horses and say, nah, like that's so dumb,
17:13
Speaker 1: like how could she believe that? But I'm not saying
17:16
Speaker 1: it's easy. But those things make sense, Like if you've
17:20
Speaker 1: got a couple of hundred thousand dollars. Even if you
17:22
Speaker 1: google it, you go, what should I do with this
17:24
Speaker 1: self managed super fund? Like basically everything he would have
17:27
Speaker 1: been telling you. You could have looked up and been like, Okay,
17:30
Speaker 1: well that seems like a logical step. Like a self
17:32
Speaker 1: managed throuper fund. Yep, they get a little bit more control.
17:35
Speaker 1: I get to do ABCND All right, no worries. What
17:38
Speaker 1: are you doing with my shares? Okay? Yeah? Like the
17:40
Speaker 1: dude has a Bloomberg monitor up and you're seeing this.
17:44
Speaker 1: I think that the best description that you've given it
17:46
Speaker 1: is like that movie. Like he's setting all these scenes
17:49
Speaker 1: so that you remember them hystorically, and that just plays
17:51
Speaker 1: into that level of trust you have for this individual.
17:54
Speaker 1: It's manipulative, it's gas lighting, but on steroids. Yes, like
17:59
Speaker 1: to me, this definitely could happen to you. Can you
18:03
Speaker 1: tell me before we get into I guess how to
18:06
Speaker 1: avoid it? Can you talk me through what that fallout
18:08
Speaker 1: has been like for you? Because your life savings are gone? Yeah,
18:11
Speaker 1: so of course I lost all of my life savings.
18:14
Speaker 1: I ended up in a position in my early forties
18:16
Speaker 1: where I just had my monthly income. I'm on my
18:19
Speaker 1: own I'm a single mum. I had no backstop at home,
18:21
Speaker 1: so I just had to double down. And it's not
18:24
Speaker 1: lost on me that I had an incredible job and
18:26
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for that. And I always say to women,
18:29
Speaker 1: especially in all the seasons of our lives, just try
18:33
Speaker 1: and have your own income, Try and hold onto work,
18:36
Speaker 1: try and work, you know, and that gives you choices,
18:38
Speaker 1: It gives you options, it gives you some freedoms. And
18:41
Speaker 1: thank god I had that, so, you know, obviously, the
18:43
Speaker 1: financial piece was one thing. So I had to work
18:46
Speaker 1: out really quickly how I was going to rebuild financially.
18:48
Speaker 1: And my future is going to look very different to
18:51
Speaker 1: what it otherwise would have. But I worked with a
18:53
Speaker 1: financial advisor, a registered financial advisor when you could look
18:57
Speaker 1: up on as sick and actually and I did. I
19:00
Speaker 1: did all my due diligence around the person I chose,
19:03
Speaker 1: and she's wonderful and we essentially visioned my life and
19:06
Speaker 1: she said, what do you want your life to look
19:07
Speaker 1: like in two, five and ten years time? And we
19:10
Speaker 1: wrote it up on a whiteboard and she, you know,
19:12
Speaker 1: figuratively held my hand and she said, you're going to
19:15
Speaker 1: be okay. What an angel she also, what a step
19:18
Speaker 1: for you to make I feel like so many people
19:20
Speaker 1: to just buried their heads in the sand and like
19:22
Speaker 1: not trusted a thing that this woman was saying. Yeah,
19:25
Speaker 1: but I had to because my brain was not working
19:29
Speaker 1: because I was in grief, I was in shock, I
19:31
Speaker 1: was in shame and embarrassment and guilt and all of
19:34
Speaker 1: those things. And I was working really hard because I
19:36
Speaker 1: couldn't lose my job. So all of these things coupled together.
19:40
Speaker 1: I knew I had to get some support. And she
19:42
Speaker 1: was one of the people that helped me through that.
19:44
Speaker 1: And she's still my financial advisor today. I love that.
19:47
Speaker 1: A lifetime relations moving for I love her, and she's just,
19:51
Speaker 1: you know, my right hand person when it comes to
19:53
Speaker 1: rebuilding my finances and asking any questions and dotting all
19:56
Speaker 1: the eyes and crossing all the teas. And I'm pretty
19:59
Speaker 1: disciplined and I'm pretty vigorous, and I just do what
20:01
Speaker 1: we say we're going to do and then flying. When
20:05
Speaker 1: I was a financial advisor. Yeah, so that was the
20:09
Speaker 1: fallout financially. But I do believe that if you have
20:12
Speaker 1: the right mindset, the right work ethic, you know, just
20:14
Speaker 1: the right energy about you, you can always make money.
20:18
Speaker 1: I love this. I do believe that not only rebuilt,
20:20
Speaker 1: but you're like, hey, I started from scratcher getting my forties,
20:24
Speaker 1: I was on the starting lilt, an inspiring story in isolation.
20:28
Speaker 1: It's also to have been completely screwed over, Like there
20:32
Speaker 1: was the emotional side that was there's a lot of
20:35
Speaker 1: therapy that I think that you're going to need to
20:36
Speaker 1: be in for a little while. Yet there's a lot
20:39
Speaker 1: the emotional side is hardest because money you can make,
20:43
Speaker 1: but learning to trust yourself and building your own self
20:46
Speaker 1: confidence back and thinking about the world in a different
20:49
Speaker 1: way to what you always have, having that within you
20:52
Speaker 1: again and that that's been the hardest. Can we talk
20:56
Speaker 1: a little bit more about red flags? So the start,
20:58
Speaker 1: you didn't really have any, And I mean we trust
21:02
Speaker 1: people implicitly, like I know, I've got girlfriends who write
21:05
Speaker 1: people off when they're dating them because you know, they
21:08
Speaker 1: walk funny, or they said something funny, or they held
21:10
Speaker 1: their fork the wrong way. Like as women, we do
21:13
Speaker 1: some pretty rogue things while dating and red flags can
21:17
Speaker 1: often be really red, like full crimson, or we might
21:21
Speaker 1: categorize them as red flags when they're really just us
21:24
Speaker 1: getting the beige. Yeah, they're they're beige flags. But were
21:28
Speaker 1: there red flags along the way that, in hindsight you
21:31
Speaker 1: look at and go I wish that I had delved
21:34
Speaker 1: a bit deeper into that. Yeah, I think it's funny
21:36
Speaker 1: the conversation around red flags, because it makes you feel
21:39
Speaker 1: like you should have seen them. No, you should. They're
21:41
Speaker 1: actually invisible flags. Right at the time, they're invisible and
21:44
Speaker 1: it's not until you're in retrospect that you can look
21:47
Speaker 1: at them. But the red flags, I mean, definitely he
21:50
Speaker 1: was quirky, Like the stories when you put them all together,
21:53
Speaker 1: even though they came in drips and jobs throughout the
21:56
Speaker 1: whole relationship. When I recount those stories in full, their crazy, like,
22:00
Speaker 1: oh my god, Like I can't believe I believe them.
22:04
Speaker 1: But that's the way grooming and coursive control works. Things come.
22:07
Speaker 1: It's like death by a thousand cuts, right. But the
22:10
Speaker 1: big things were around, you know, when he presented me
22:13
Speaker 1: with these ideas about you know, investments and things like that.
22:18
Speaker 1: I'm not ashamed to admit that I didn't think critically enough.
22:21
Speaker 1: I trusted him. I believed he had my best interests
22:23
Speaker 1: at heart. But what I've realized is that you know
22:26
Speaker 1: your money and your heart are the most important things
22:28
Speaker 1: you can protect, and I probably didn't have as much
22:32
Speaker 1: agency as I do now around my money. And what
22:35
Speaker 1: I like to encourage in telling this story is like,
22:38
Speaker 1: especially for women, just leaning harder because it's not always easy,
22:41
Speaker 1: it's not always accessible. Sometimes it is hard, but it's
22:45
Speaker 1: harder losing your life savings and having to start again
22:47
Speaker 1: at forty. So learn it. Like and this way I
22:50
Speaker 1: love what you do V is like educating people around
22:52
Speaker 1: financial wellness, financial advocacy and you know, resilience, all of
22:57
Speaker 1: those things that you're encouraging the female community that you
23:02
Speaker 1: have to lean into. I probably didn't think critically enough
23:06
Speaker 1: about them, you know. And I don't think I could
23:09
Speaker 1: have critically thought my way out of the fact the
23:11
Speaker 1: man that was spooning me at night was also plotting
23:13
Speaker 1: to destroy me. And I think that's the wildest thing.
23:17
Speaker 1: I think. We assume that we'd be able to see
23:19
Speaker 1: these things coming. And like when I asked you about
23:22
Speaker 1: red flags, I actually assumed you'd be like, no, not really, because,
23:25
Speaker 1: like you know, it was so choreographed that when it
23:27
Speaker 1: came up, well, why would that be an issue? Well,
23:30
Speaker 1: he had an answer for everything, too, because of course
23:32
Speaker 1: he'd been doing this his job. He'd be doing it
23:35
Speaker 1: for thirty years, and you do anything for thirty years,
23:36
Speaker 1: and you get get really good at it, you know.
23:39
Speaker 1: And throughout the book, I do use the red flag
23:41
Speaker 1: as a you know, just as a pullout in real
23:44
Speaker 1: time to go. You know what, if I had really
23:46
Speaker 1: thought about this, it probably would have done a side
23:49
Speaker 1: eye on it or something like that, you know. But that,
23:52
Speaker 1: of course, that's so easy to do in retrospect. But
23:54
Speaker 1: hopefully my lessons can be someone else's lessons in advance.
23:58
Speaker 1: And that's why we're bringing you on the pot and
24:00
Speaker 1: sharing this story. And I think there is this juxtaposition
24:04
Speaker 1: at play when people are in these circumstances, right because unfortunately,
24:09
Speaker 1: you're not the first person I've spoken to who has
24:11
Speaker 1: had a partner still their life savings. Honestly, not to
24:15
Speaker 1: the level of Hamish McLaren. Pretty extreme, that's very extreme,
24:19
Speaker 1: and it is a wild story, sadly true. But people
24:24
Speaker 1: go through these things, and this juxtaposition is at play
24:27
Speaker 1: because you've got the logical and then you've got the
24:30
Speaker 1: emotional and I, you know, am grasping at straws or
24:34
Speaker 1: claiming here that I'm assuming your emotional relationship with him
24:37
Speaker 1: was great, Like you're spooning this man at night, Like,
24:40
Speaker 1: how great is this. I've come out of a divorce,
24:42
Speaker 1: I've got a child. I'm just I'm so happy. Yeah,
24:45
Speaker 1: And when you're in that bubble, like why would things
24:49
Speaker 1: look red? No, And we were planning on our future together,
24:51
Speaker 1: We're looking at property and Byron bay like he and
24:54
Speaker 1: I were very very close and intimate talking about our future.
24:57
Speaker 1: So it didn't feel I didn't suspec anything, and it
25:00
Speaker 1: didn't feel like that. But of course you know he's
25:03
Speaker 1: kicking eye in the background. Yeah. So I know from
25:06
Speaker 1: our community, sadly that most women going through situations of
25:13
Speaker 1: coercive control and grooming, they don't realize, and then when
25:16
Speaker 1: they come out the other side, or someone brings it
25:19
Speaker 1: up or they've realized themselves, there's a lot of guilt
25:22
Speaker 1: and shame that they carry around this and it actually
25:26
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with you in a way, like
25:30
Speaker 1: these are the actions of somebody else that's got nothing
25:32
Speaker 1: to do with your intelligence or your emotional intelligence or
25:35
Speaker 1: being able to read a situation like it makes you
25:37
Speaker 1: second guess yourself when you're in these circumstances, you're like,
25:40
Speaker 1: am I actually the worst judge of character in the
25:43
Speaker 1: entire world? Like? Am I cooked?
25:45
Speaker 3: Like?
25:45
Speaker 1: What's going on here? But speaking to our community, what
25:50
Speaker 1: would you like other victims to know and to feel
25:54
Speaker 1: after hearing your story? I think, in telling my story,
25:58
Speaker 1: I want people to know that doesn't how well educated
26:01
Speaker 1: you are, what family you come from, how well traveled
26:04
Speaker 1: you are, how great you think your intuition is, these
26:08
Speaker 1: things can happen to anyone. There's not one thing that
26:11
Speaker 1: someone could say to me about this experience that I
26:13
Speaker 1: haven't already said to myself in the worst possible and
26:15
Speaker 1: most disgusting, degrading way. And that is I think a
26:19
Speaker 1: natural reaction. But another part of telling this story is
26:22
Speaker 1: to release people from their shame, because if I can
26:26
Speaker 1: tell this story, and what I've realized is a lot
26:28
Speaker 1: of people have come forward to me and said that
26:30
Speaker 1: happened to me, or that happened to my parents, or
26:32
Speaker 1: I haven't told anyone about this situation. An older woman
26:36
Speaker 1: came to me, she's seventy five. She had told anybody
26:39
Speaker 1: that she'd lost her divorce settlement when she was forty.
26:42
Speaker 1: Not even her children barely knew and she sat across
26:44
Speaker 1: the table crying, and you know, she said, I haven't
26:47
Speaker 1: told anybody, and I'm like this, poor woman, thirty five
26:50
Speaker 1: years she's held on to that's a lot. And I
26:54
Speaker 1: know that feeling I held onto mind for just over
26:57
Speaker 1: a year before I started talking about this situation the
27:00
Speaker 1: podcast who They Were Say, miss And you know, it
27:03
Speaker 1: wasn't until that moment that I released the shame because
27:05
Speaker 1: you know, did I want the story to own me
27:08
Speaker 1: or did I want to own the story? And for me,
27:10
Speaker 1: it was important to own this story. And I do
27:12
Speaker 1: know that there were things that I could have done differently,
27:15
Speaker 1: but to be ashamed and embarrassed about that when this
27:19
Speaker 1: is somebody who has clearly taken advantage of your kindness
27:22
Speaker 1: and your empathy and your compassion and your love, then
27:26
Speaker 1: there is nothing to be ashamed about. And I hope
27:28
Speaker 1: that just in telling my story, if anyone else has
27:30
Speaker 1: felt anything similar to this, that they can realize that
27:34
Speaker 1: as well. It's to me while that people could abuse
27:40
Speaker 1: that level of trust like it makes me feel sick.
27:43
Speaker 1: But the best thing that's come out of this is
27:46
Speaker 1: you are now an advocate for women in situations like
27:49
Speaker 1: this Like this is now your life's work. Yeah, And
27:51
Speaker 1: I mean it's cost you three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars,
27:54
Speaker 1: so it was actually a lot more expensive than just
27:56
Speaker 1: going to UNI and getting a degree and like going
27:58
Speaker 1: down the career route. Dramatic from you, but you're in
28:03
Speaker 1: this position where you're kind of releasing these women from
28:06
Speaker 1: these situations if we have been through this and we're
28:10
Speaker 1: still holding a lot of guilt and shame, or we're
28:12
Speaker 1: just not sure if we're in that situation because financially,
28:16
Speaker 1: abusive relationships are really hard to identify, and often when
28:21
Speaker 1: I speak to people, and you know, research tells us,
28:25
Speaker 1: they're very hard to identify ourselves because we don't know
28:29
Speaker 1: that that's abuse. We don't know that that's somebody grooming us,
28:33
Speaker 1: we don't know that we're in a situation where someone's
28:37
Speaker 1: using coercive control, because often it actually looks like them
28:40
Speaker 1: quote trying to look after you, caring for you. It's
28:43
Speaker 1: so nice of him to have come in and like
28:45
Speaker 1: set you up and put you in the best possible position.
28:48
Speaker 1: What a great guy. Even when friends and family might
28:51
Speaker 1: identify it and say, hey, Tracy, did you realize you
28:55
Speaker 1: are going to deny what is going on? Because at
28:59
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know him, you trust him.
29:01
Speaker 1: They're not the ones that go home with him at night.
29:03
Speaker 1: They're not the ones that you know, roll over at
29:05
Speaker 1: three am to this, you know, gorgeous man in your bed,
29:08
Speaker 1: like what is going on? Yeah, but this is your
29:11
Speaker 1: life's work now and honestly, I'm glad to have you
29:14
Speaker 1: on my team. But talk to me about what resources
29:17
Speaker 1: exist out there for people who might suspect that they're
29:20
Speaker 1: a victim to a scammer. There are so many resources,
29:23
Speaker 1: so they're ScamWatch, dot gov, dot AU. You can go
29:26
Speaker 1: and research. The banks are putting out a lot of
29:28
Speaker 1: information at the moment, not only just on scams and fraud,
29:32
Speaker 1: but on financial abuse and coersive control in this space.
29:35
Speaker 1: ASIK have incredible resources on their website where you can
29:38
Speaker 1: look up the financial advisor that you're working with and
29:41
Speaker 1: checking their AFSL. You can tell oh, you can check
29:44
Speaker 1: whether they are actually qualified to advise you on what
29:47
Speaker 1: they're advising you on. You can see if they've got
29:49
Speaker 1: any red flags against an AMCs are all very very
29:51
Speaker 1: quick lookups. You can do a reverse image search so
29:55
Speaker 1: you can put a photo Internet. I love twenty twenty four.
29:58
Speaker 1: In some ways it's been so you can check if
30:01
Speaker 1: I had have done that, then Hamish McLaren would have
30:04
Speaker 1: shown up on it wouldn't have been maxed to. At
30:06
Speaker 1: the same time, why would you be looking up your partner.
30:09
Speaker 1: I know that's that side of romance fraud, but I mean,
30:14
Speaker 1: there are just so many resources that you can, you know,
30:17
Speaker 1: look at. There are domain URL lookups, so if you
30:21
Speaker 1: get what you think might be a dodgy email about
30:23
Speaker 1: a BSBN account number or something, you can look at
30:26
Speaker 1: the extension of the domain, put it in and see
30:27
Speaker 1: when that domain has been set up. You can see
30:30
Speaker 1: what country that domain is registered in. If it's a
30:33
Speaker 1: Caribbean country, you know, somewhere where there's no tax, you
30:36
Speaker 1: could probably assume that it's a bit dodgy. And these
30:39
Speaker 1: are some really easy things you can do. I've got
30:41
Speaker 1: them all listed on my website, so people we can
30:43
Speaker 1: be putting your website in our show notes and people
30:45
Speaker 1: can go straight there because it's also a fantastic website
30:48
Speaker 1: learning more about your story about what's going on. I mean, Tracy,
30:52
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I am grateful to
30:54
Speaker 1: have you on the podcast, but the reason you've come
30:56
Speaker 1: on the podcast is because you're doing the media rounds. Yes,
30:59
Speaker 1: because you have written a book. Yeah, tell us about that. Well,
31:03
Speaker 1: the book is Got the Last Victim. And I think,
31:06
Speaker 1: as we've sort of had in this conversation, it's such
31:08
Speaker 1: a nuanced story. It's so detailed, and I felt that
31:12
Speaker 1: I needed eighty thousand words to describe the insidious nature
31:16
Speaker 1: of this type of fraud so that people could really
31:18
Speaker 1: understand and try and learn from it. So I wrote
31:22
Speaker 1: a book, It's Got the Last Victim. It's about my
31:24
Speaker 1: time before, during, and after my relationship with Hamish. You know,
31:27
Speaker 1: it is not just a sad Sally story where it's
31:29
Speaker 1: it's juicy. It's juicy, it's got humor, and the final
31:33
Speaker 1: part of the book is really about how do you
31:35
Speaker 1: rebuild your life after something really traumatic happens and you
31:37
Speaker 1: don't have to lose your life savings to a comment
31:40
Speaker 1: in the way that I did. But we're all going
31:41
Speaker 1: to go through things. We're all going to have our challenges,
31:44
Speaker 1: and that's where the human spirit really has to lift
31:47
Speaker 1: and we have to kind of find a way through.
31:49
Speaker 1: So I talk about how I did that as well.
31:51
Speaker 1: I am obsessed with this book. Everyone on my podcast
31:54
Speaker 1: already knows I'm a true crime girl. Like I don't
31:57
Speaker 1: want to tell people this, but like they know that
31:59
Speaker 1: I go to bed at night listening to crime podcasts. Right,
32:02
Speaker 1: I feel like that is a reflection of my instability.
32:06
Speaker 1: But we can have that conversation another day. My favorite
32:11
Speaker 1: thing is true crime. So when this Who the Hell
32:13
Speaker 1: Is Hamish podcast started coming out, I was obsessed and
32:17
Speaker 1: I remember hearing you and being like, she's so well spoken,
32:20
Speaker 1: Like obviously I'd never met you. I didn't know your
32:22
Speaker 1: story at that time. That was the first piece of
32:25
Speaker 1: content that you existed in and I just remember going wow,
32:29
Speaker 1: Like as of finance at the time, I was an advisor.
32:32
Speaker 1: I was like, this guy took her for a ride. Like,
32:36
Speaker 1: how did it feel having content like that come out
32:38
Speaker 1: and you being a part of it, but it not
32:41
Speaker 1: being your story? Like I just love that you've taken
32:42
Speaker 1: it and made it positive? Yeah, because how did it
32:46
Speaker 1: feel having stuff like that come out? Because it's obviously
32:49
Speaker 1: not the positive story about you that your book is. No,
32:52
Speaker 1: And that's why I wanted to write the book as well.
32:54
Speaker 1: Because the podcast was about Hamish and uncovering the life
32:57
Speaker 1: of Hamish and all of the things he'd done that
32:59
Speaker 1: were both included in the case that was investigated in Australia,
33:03
Speaker 1: but as well as his global Shenanigan. Should we say yeah,
33:07
Speaker 1: because I didn't just like defraud a couple of people
33:10
Speaker 1: here in Australia, this guy went global. There's a lot
33:14
Speaker 1: that is being said about that. So in essence, the
33:17
Speaker 1: podcast was about Hamish and what he had done and
33:19
Speaker 1: uncovering all of that and being a part of that.
33:22
Speaker 1: I was really probably scared to do in the beginning
33:24
Speaker 1: because I was so ashamed and embarrassed about what had happened,
33:27
Speaker 1: but then realized that if in telling my story I
33:29
Speaker 1: could help someone else or uncover more of what had happened,
33:33
Speaker 1: then that was going to be positive. And then of
33:35
Speaker 1: course it took off like no Tomorrow, and then you know,
33:38
Speaker 1: the book off the back of that is really my story,
33:41
Speaker 1: And yes, Hamish is a part of my story. He's
33:44
Speaker 1: not the only thing that's ever happened to me. It
33:47
Speaker 1: won't be the last tricky thing that I go through
33:49
Speaker 1: my life, so it's just a part of it. But
33:52
Speaker 1: I really wanted to use the opportunity to educate women,
33:55
Speaker 1: especially about this type of fraud and scams and fraud
33:59
Speaker 1: more generally, because it's everywhere right now. And I think
34:02
Speaker 1: we work so hard for our money and we've got
34:04
Speaker 1: a hold onto already behind, Like as women, we're already behind.
34:08
Speaker 1: I think my favorite thing about your book is like
34:10
Speaker 1: it's awesome, it's inspiring, But obviously this was so significant
34:15
Speaker 1: and to be allowed to delve into your life, like
34:19
Speaker 1: to know what life was back before, what life was
34:21
Speaker 1: like during, and now how you've rebuilt yourself. I think
34:25
Speaker 1: that we can all take a leaf out of that
34:27
Speaker 1: book and just go Wow, if she can do it,
34:29
Speaker 1: anyone can. And I think you were saying at the
34:32
Speaker 1: start of this episode, like we can all make money,
34:34
Speaker 1: Like we can all put ourselves in the best possible position,
34:37
Speaker 1: Like we just have to pull our fingers out. And
34:39
Speaker 1: we talk a lot on this podcast about people having
34:42
Speaker 1: their heads in the sand about finance because it is overwhelming.
34:45
Speaker 1: It is really scary. Yeah, this stuff is going to
34:49
Speaker 1: stay scary until you become educated. Tracy, what's life's like
34:53
Speaker 1: today you've started to rebuild. How's your daughter? Oh, she's
34:58
Speaker 1: great because she's fourteen, so that's good time. But she's
35:03
Speaker 1: fantastic and Yeah, life's busy. There's a lot of sport,
35:07
Speaker 1: there's a lot of activities. I am doing this full time.
35:10
Speaker 1: So I'm working with corporates and writing workshops for retirees
35:14
Speaker 1: to help protect them against scams and fraud when it
35:16
Speaker 1: comes to technology. So I am just delving deep into
35:19
Speaker 1: this world and you know, working with banks and government
35:22
Speaker 1: on advocacy. Yeah, it's I'm loving it. So life is
35:25
Speaker 1: someone just come along and helped you sweep it under
35:28
Speaker 1: a rug and rebuild again. And you're like, I see that.
35:31
Speaker 1: It doesn't define me, but I found a purpose and
35:34
Speaker 1: I'm going to put so many people in a better
35:36
Speaker 1: position because of my life. I'm obsessed. Yeah, and it is.
35:39
Speaker 1: It's very purposeful. And I think sometimes we strive our
35:42
Speaker 1: whole lives to find our purpose, and when you've worked
35:45
Speaker 1: in corporate a long time, that doesn't always kind of correlate.
35:50
Speaker 1: And now I'm in a place where I can use
35:53
Speaker 1: all the skills I've built over my twenty five year
35:55
Speaker 1: career and put it to good use and hopefully help
35:58
Speaker 1: people and help make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.
36:01
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. I have so much gratitude for you and
36:05
Speaker 1: the work that you're doing in this space because it
36:06
Speaker 1: is so essential. I know that I'm really quickly running
36:09
Speaker 1: out of time with you. I have one last question.
36:11
Speaker 1: It's a little bit pervy. Oh okay, well you ever
36:14
Speaker 1: get back on the dating apps? Never back on the
36:17
Speaker 1: dating apps?
36:17
Speaker 2: Never?
36:18
Speaker 1: You're like, absolutely not. That didn't work out for me
36:21
Speaker 1: to start. God for life, scar the Live. I think
36:24
Speaker 1: there are you know, some things I am happy to
36:26
Speaker 1: try again, but definitely not that. But no, I do
36:29
Speaker 1: have a beautiful man in my life. He's amazing. I've
36:32
Speaker 1: known him for twenty four years. So oh, I love
36:35
Speaker 1: the We do a proper ID check, yes check, get it,
36:38
Speaker 1: get the Hundle points of ID. Yeah. No, I've known
36:41
Speaker 1: him for a long time and we were sort of
36:43
Speaker 1: bestiaes when all of this happened. So yeah, But anyway,
36:47
Speaker 1: so yeah. Isn't it funny how the world works out?
36:49
Speaker 1: It's just the universe is just finally delivering. I love this.
36:53
Speaker 1: Thank you Universe, and thank you Tracy. This story is
36:57
Speaker 1: honestly so trash, but if you have changed it into
37:01
Speaker 1: something that is aw inspiring, and I'm just so proud
37:04
Speaker 1: to get to say that I know you and we
37:06
Speaker 1: are backing absolutely everything that you do. Guys, if you
37:09
Speaker 1: haven't read it yet, the Last Victim is out now
37:12
Speaker 1: and I have got my hands on a few copies,
37:14
Speaker 1: so we will be announcing on socials how we're going
37:16
Speaker 1: to give those away. But if you want to go
37:19
Speaker 1: and pick one up, we will link to Tracy's website
37:21
Speaker 1: and where you can purchase it online in the show notes. Tracy, again,
37:25
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing your story. Thanks for
37:27
Speaker 1: having me Bee. The advice shared on She's on the
37:35
Speaker 1: Money is general in nature and does not consider your
37:38
Speaker 1: individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely for educational
37:42
Speaker 1: purposes and should not be relied upon to make an
37:45
Speaker 1: investment or financial decision. If you do choose to buy
37:48
Speaker 1: a financial product, read the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate
37:52
Speaker 1: financial advice tailored towards your needs. Victoria Divine and She's
37:56
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