Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Lever 7: Social Connections & Stress Management | Thrive A/F Ep. 8
Transcript
- Lou Fratto: I don't know if this is true, but this is it was a really cool metaphor. Do you know the difference between how a herd of buffalo deals with a approaching storm versus a herd of cows? Keith: I have no idea. Lou Fratto: Again, I don't know if this is true, but I heard this. Buffalo will charge directly into the storm and will keep running that direction and therefore will blast out of the back of the storm and be involved in the storm less time than cows who run away from the storm. And then of course the storm catches up to them and now they're running with the storm, so they're in it longer. So it's kind of a Keith: we're gonna have to look this up and see if this is true. Is that where we Lou Fratto: But Keith: get is that where we get the term cowardly? All right, welcome back. This is Thrive AF, Thrive After 40. This is episode eight. I am Keith Kalija, one of your podcast hosts, one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus in Atlanta, Georgia. And I am here with my good friend Lou Fratto. Lou, say hello to the fans, to the nation, to the audience. Lou Fratto: Hey guys, Lou Ferrato here, owner of Delray Care Physical Therapy in Delray Beach. And I guess I wrote the book Thrive, a physical therapist guide to longevity that we're still talking about. So we're on another chapter today. Keith: That's right. Yeah. Episode eight, but lever seven, right? I got Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: that right. And the lever we're going to talk about today is relu relationships and emotional well-being. So another, I think, interesting topic and a little bit different than what we talked about last week, which was technology. but no real preambles today unless you want to give the standard disclaimer for the audience. Lou Fratto: Yeah, well, as usual, this is really just intended for educational and informational purposes only and again as always hopefully entertainment as well. But Keith: Yes. Lou Fratto: but yeah, it's not meant to be medical advice or you know, or or to replace what your mental health person is telling you or your your physician is telling you. So just keep that in mind. Keith: Perfect. Sounds good. So I guess to kick it off, what I I was thinking about this this morning before we recorded. and wanted to see if you could talk a little bit about how you got the inspiration to actually include this in the book as one of the levers, I'm just wondering if you remember where you got the inspiration to include this since it's not really directly related to things like physical therapy or physical fitness. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I think just on a personal note, I I even though I'm probably kind of right in the middle of extrovert versus introvert, you know, I can be happy by myself, and I can be happy with with people. I just find that in my own life, you know, when I am hanging around quality relationships, people that I I love, you know, friends and family, I'm just It just makes me happy, you know. So I think just from a personal standpoint, I I knew intuitively that it's important. But then also when I started to want to write the book, I did a lot of research and just in in reading other books that were out at the time on longevity and looking at different studies, you know, it kept coming up. And so Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: there's just no doubt that the research supports it that if you have quality relationships in your life, it helps with your emotional wellbeing. So the two are really you know, closely tied and it also helps you live longer as well. You know. Keith: Yeah. Do you want to get into some of the key points about the relationships and emotional well being and and that connection to longevity and f physical health long term? Lou Fratto: Yeah, I think that just sort of on a global basis, you know, you we need people in our lives that are gonna help us when we have challenges in our life. You know, there's nothing better than having a community to support you. You know, we can't handle everything alone as well as we can with people who are gonna help us out, you know, when we have those tough times. but also I think that It's great to have people to celebrate when you're having some good times too and when you're enjoying some wins in life, you know. So it's just as important either way. And I know you had kind of sent the some information along when we were kind of going over the this beforehand, and they were talking about how even just your casual relationships of people that you see ever, you know, on a weekly basis, maybe at the gym or maybe in a you know, card group that you're in or something like that is really important because those are, you know, you tend to have positive experiences with them. You know, you're you're laughing, you're saying, hey, how's it going? And just enjoying the moment. And that's I think really helpful just on a continual basis as well. Keith: Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that, you know, I'm at a stage where I'm talking with my parents, for example, about what the next stage in their life is gonna be. And as part of that, we've been looking at they live on their own right now, but eventually they'll probably move into some sort of community for older adults. And we have been looking at different you know, places around here. And one of the things that I noticed is if you talk to people in in in communities like that, both the staff and the people that actually live there, a big thing that comes up is how much they are trying to reinforce the idea of engagement with the community because it there's this direct correlation, I think, between especially as you get older, Isolating or isolation can be a real challenge to a person's health and fitness. And the more that they can do to get people to engage with each other, building social activities and opportunities within within the community like that is a big part of the focus. And I would I wasn't say I was surprised by it, but I was it really reinforced the fact that it's become pretty standard, I guess, knowledge that you need to keep people active and engaged to avoid some of the dangers of being isolated, especially as you get older is if you can. Lou Fratto: Right. And to me, I mean, that's part of that's makes life worth living, right? Is you know, is it enjoying and having s occasions and special times with people and those communities are great for that. I I have a lot of patients who are in those communities and they they have a more active social life than I do. I mean, it's amazing all the different things that they're doing continually, you know. Keith: Yeah, no, it's great. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I know my grandmother when she went into a community finally, she was living with my parents and they did a great job and they really turned around her health with helping her with what she was eating and managing her medications and of course she had a lot of quality family time. But then eventually she started falling a lot and they just couldn't pick her up and they just couldn't they didn't feel like they could keep her safe. So she went into a community that was just down the street. But Then COVID hit and you know there was they weren't able to visit her and and I remember my mom asked her, she said, you know, would you like to come back home? You know, where we'll make it work. And she said, No, you know, I'm I actually have a lot of friends here and I'm having a a really good time. She was really enjoying it. So she didn't even Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: want to leave. Keith: Hey, good for her. That I mean Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: that that's better than the I guess better than the opposite. were there any specific examples either from the book or from the research that you did that went into the chapter on this that you wanted to talk about and kind of bring up as examples of how this has a impact on overall longevity and health and fitness? Lou Fratto: Well, there's one study where and I I don't know the people to give credit to, I apologize for that, but there was a study where they said that loneliness was equivalent to smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. And again, I can't give much detail on it, but that's a perfect Keith: Wow. Lou Fratto: example of just how detrimental isolation can be to your health, you know. I wish I had the citation for that, but Keith: Well, maybe we I can look it up afterwards and put it in the show notes, but that's a pretty Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: stark statistic on the impact that that it can have. to maintaining relationships takes work. I mean it takes effort. And I think that's another piece of it that becomes maybe a little bit more challenging as you maybe as you get older. and you have to be deliberate about the way that you maintain and kind of foster your relationships, just like you do any other lever or aspect of health and fitness, you know, that we talked about. And I think that's one of the things that I'm finding with my own life. is putting the investment into making sure that you're taking the time to you know stay engaged and invested in the relationships that you have is just as important as taking time to go to the gym or you know spending time thinking about more things like nutrition and Maybe that's a realization. I don't know if that's something that you talked about in the book in terms of the the investment that you need to put into it, but was that something that you came across as you were researching the topic as well? Lou Fratto: Yeah, well it's definitely true. You have to be proactive, you know, and you have to get out and get involved. You know, I have several patients or have had several patients over the years that are just they're struggling they struggle with, you know, being able to find relationships or get involved and and just having to help them, you know, and speaking with other patients who seem to be doing really well at it, they make Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: the effort. You're right. They go out and they get involved in these groups or they get involved and they play cards, you know, every week. They just make sure that they're doing something on a regular basis. You're right, it does does take work. And it seems like the older we get, the more work that you have to put into it. Keith: Yeah. was there a relationship between stress management and relationships that you came across when you were working on or was that just part of emotional well-being overall? Lou Fratto: Yeah, I just put it in there because the two seem to be so linked, you know, and and again, just knowing from a you know, intellectually that when if you have people to help you go through tough times that can help you manage stress. So I think that's why I put the two together is that they're very closely linked. So if you have a community to help you out, that's incredibly powerful. and I've you know, and then also something we should talk about is dealing with loss. And this is something that is amiss from my chapter. I did not include this and I really should have, because as we get older, I think that's more of a thing that we have to deal with, you know, and just seeing the some patients who just lost. have lost spouses that they were married to, you know, for decades and just how difficult that is. And seems like they got a lot of benefit out of professional help, you know, whether it's counseling, there's definitely no shame in that, or bereavement groups. And then one patient in particular, after she nursed her ill husband for really years and he and he passed away. She had kind of a rule where she said, I'm not gonna say no to anybody who asks me to do something. You know, and she said no matter how sad I felt, or you know, maybe didn't feel the desire to do it, she said yes anyway. And as a result, you know, now we're a few years away from that, she has a really good base of friends and she's very active and she's involved and I think I helped her out a lot and she would agree with that. Keith: No, good story. you mentioned a Harvard study in the show notes here from somebody named Kelly McGonacle. Do you wanna talk a little bit about the what that study was and kind of what the findings were? Lou Fratto: Yeah, that goes back to s the stress management and sort of how you frame it. And the study was that if you have a kind of a threat mindset, so they put these people in a deliberately stressful situation. And if the people had a threat mindset where like, okay, they viewed the stressful situation as a big threat, and my God, am I gonna be able to handle this? their physiology reacted in a much less healthy way than if they framed it as, okay, this is a challenge, but I'm gonna survive this and I'm gonna get through it. And their body responded, those people's body responded differently than the people who looked at it as a threat. So that was really interesting. So in other words, I think some of the details are like their heart rate went up in both groups. But in the group that looked at it like a threat, their peripheral you know, vascular arteries and capillaries and stuff constricted. And the other side of the group that looked at it more positively, yes, they had an increased heart rate, but their peripheral vascularization stayed open and so it wasn't as detrimental to their heart and their physiology. So That's just some of the details, but it was very interesting. Just just the way you look at a challenge is very important on how stressful it is for you. Keith: you included some information, I guess, about different techniques that you might be able to use to deal with stress management. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Lou Fratto: Yeah, so some of the techniques can be, you know, appropriate or helpful in an acute situation, like breathing techniques. You know, there's different there's all kinds of breathing techniques out now. It's it's finally getting the attention that it deserves. But some of the key ones that are I find really helpful are like the four, seven, eight. Technique, you know, it's where you breathe in for four seconds, then you hold for seven, and then you exhale for eight. And so if you're feeling just really stressed or frustrated, let's say you're running late and you're trying to get to work and you're at a red light, you know, or at a train or something, that's a great technique to do a couple of those, and it just helps to calm you down. the Navy SEALs actually use a technique called box breathing. And an example of that would be you inhale for four, you hold for four, you exhale for four, and then you hold that for four, and you just keep doing that. And that seems to also sort of interrupt the stressful physiology and can help you out sort of in the moment. And I also talked about meditation. And to me, meditation is something that can help make you a little more resilient. to stress if you do it on a regular basis. So you want to hopefully develop a meditation routine that when you do have a stressful situation that hits, you're better able to handle it having done the meditation preemptively. Keith: So you're doing the meditation when the stressful situation hits, or you're doing the meditation practice as a way to just keep yourself even like you do it every day. Lou Fratto: Yeah, so it it can help when the situation hits, it can kind of calm you down. But it's all I think the real benefit comes from doing it on a daily basis, especially in times when you don't need it, so that you build up the strength and the resiliency for when stress does hit, you handle it much better having done the meditation ahead of time. Keith: You mentioned on a previous episode that you had up like a protocol that you use regardless of day or situation, is that and that was part of your protocol as well, right? A personal protocol. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. Right. I try to do some meditation every day. and it's and I've been doing it for years and it's it can be difficult, you know, but it's it's it is I do find that I'm just much more even keel if I've been doing it regularly than if I've, you know, sort of slacked off on it. Keith: Yeah. Yeah, I had a situation recently where I've never really been consistent with things like breathing techniques. But I I don't remember what happened, but I it was similar to what you're saying about a stressful morning, traffic, and a lot building up. And I just used one of the apps. it might have been the Whoop app, actually. you know, and realized that my heartbeat wasn't coming down as it normally does after I left the gym when I got home. So I just put on a breathing technique, which I don't haven't really done a whole lot of in the past and did it for I think five minutes. And it actually helped. And you Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: know, I'm not say was skeptical of breathing techniques. I just really not had I had not invested that much time into it. And you know, I so I think there's definitely something to it. calming yourself and trying to go through something like that, you know, seems to have a pretty direct and immediate impact if you have the time to kind of invest in it, even if it's only five minutes. Lou Fratto: Yeah, and and even like you said on an acute situation with the breathing techniques, if you focus on what you're doing with your breath, it helps you br bring you into the present moment, you know, because usually when we're stressed, it's a because we're thinking about something in the future or lamenting about something in the past and it just helps to bring you right into the present moment. So just even that in and of itself is extremely helpful. Keith: how did you get into meditation and where did you go to kind of learn a tech the technique that you use? Was it self taught Lou Fratto: it goes back to my sleep issue. and I just having the trouble with the sleep and getting back to sleep after waking up in the middle of the night. I had heard somewhere, this is years ago, probably eighteen, twenty years ago, that people who meditated could could get back to sleep faster. than than those who did. So I thought, wow, okay, maybe this can help me out. So I actually went to a meditation class and learned some techniques there. And then the guy back then had a C D. So I bought the C D and I had this little C D player next to my bed and I'd have some earphones. And when I'd wake up in the middle of the night, I would put the earphones in and listen to the C D and it did seem to help me get back to sleep quicker. And so I just kept doing it. And then just through the years it evolved into, you know, a just a regular practice. And I learned, you know, more about it and how it works and why it works and and different techniques. started off probably, I guess you would call it sort of similar to transcendental meditation, which is where you repeat a certain saying or a certain word, and then evolved into just mindfulness, which is where You're not repeating a word. You're just focusing on something like your breath going in and out. And that to me is actually more challenging because you don't have that word to sort of anchor you. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: So it's now turned into more of a mindfulness type of meditation. Keith: So I guess the equivalent today to the CD on the bedside table might be something that you could do on your phone. Like we talked about Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: technology in the last issue. I know my wife actually bought a sleep mask that has Bluetooth, you know, headphones built into it. And sometimes we'll put that on when she's having trouble getting back to sleep and play a meditation or, you know, another something, an audio. something to help her get back to sleep. So might be a little bit more comfortable than the old the old C D headphones that we still wear. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. The things have evolved. It's I definitely will use the phone with some earphones now, but the it's funny because you you you know, you don't want to be on your phone at night, but yet if you Keith: Right. Lou Fratto: gotta get to a breathing app, you kinda have to get to your phone. So it's like a sort of a little bit of a, you know, yeah, yeah, but Keith: Yeah. Catch twenty-two. Yeah. Well hopefully you don't look at your email or your text while you're trying to find your meditation app. Lou Fratto: Right. Gotta avoid that. You don't wanna get any interrupted announcements that you just got a, you know, stressful email or something, but Keith: Yeah, that would be cross purposes, I guess. well cool. what else can we talk about when it comes to relationships, emotional well being, stress management that you either covered in your book or we just want to hit? Lou Fratto: Well, there's a really cool term called antifragile. Have you heard of that? Keith: I read it in your book, but I hadn't heard about Lou Fratto: all right. Keith: it until then. Lou Fratto: Well, there was a book written around c the time of when COVID first hit called Antifragile by Nassim Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: Tap Nassim Talib, he's the one that wrote it. I think he coined the term and it's an it's a neat term because if you take three words and compare and contrast them, okay, so one would be fragile, one would be resilient, and one would be anti-fragile. Okay. So now this is according this is his definitions. All right. So Fragile is when you you know you get kicked around by life and you fall apart, right? Resilient would be okay, you get kicked around, but you bounce back to where you were previously. But anti-fragile is all right, go ahead, kick me around because I'm gonna come back stronger than I was before. You know, so it's a really cool concept. And if you so if you frame life's setbacks as challenges that are gonna that you can utilize to make you stronger and a better version of yourself. I don't know, I find that it it helps me deal with the setbacks and challenges better. You know, so I think I did Keith: And that kind of aligns with the stoicism Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: topic we talked about, right? With Ryan Holiday and Obstacle is the way, the whole point I think of that book is obstacles are opportunities and just opportunities for you to kind of be anti-fragile as the way you defined it and to come back and you know view them as Things that actually make you stronger. And also inevitable. Lou Fratto: Yeah. And inevitable end you should actually seek them out. I think there's plenty of people that say that, you know, move towards them rather than away from them. I don't know if this is true, but this is it was a really cool metaphor. Do you know the difference between how a herd of buffalo deals with a approaching storm versus a herd of cows? Keith: I have no idea. Lou Fratto: Again, I don't know if this is true, but I heard this. Buffalo will charge directly into the storm and will keep running that direction and therefore will blast out of the back of the storm and be involved in the storm less time than cows who run away from the storm. And then of course the storm catches up to them and now they're running with the storm, so they're in it longer. So it's kind of a Keith: we're gonna have to look this up and see if this is true. Is that where we Lou Fratto: But Keith: get is that where we get the term cowardly? Lou Fratto: Maybe my gosh, maybe Keith: I doubt it. We might have just stumbled upon something that is just hidden, forbidden knowledge. The you know, the coward and cowardly and cows running away Lou Fratto: Who knows, man? Keith: from the storm. Lou Fratto: Maybe, but th think about even if that's not true, what a great what a great story. Keith: Yeah. Well, what was the, I guess the quote if you're if you're walking through hell, you know, keep walking or something like that. I don't know if you've heard, but heard of that, but exactly. Lou Fratto: Keep on going, yeah. Keith: So get through it as quickly as possible. All right. So we'll have to look up the legend of the the buffalo and the storm. See if that actually true. That is a good metaphor though. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah, see if that's real. Right. So let me look at the page here to see if anything else comes back. well, of course the other thing is focus on gratitude too, right? I think I have that in there. Try to focus Keith: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: on what's good in your life and remind yourself of that, you know. Keith: Yeah. there was a book that I just remembered as you were talking about the Buffalo story. have you ever heard of the book Bowling Alone? The col Lou Fratto: No. Keith: so I guess the concept, and I've heard people talk about it on other pod podcasts and you know, specifically talking about things like loneliness and the loneliness epidemic. but it's called Bowling Alone: the Collapse and Revival of American. Community. And it was published in 2000. And it takes the, you know, sort of small example of decline of what used to be very common, which is bowling leagues, as an opportunity for people to get together and have social interactions. And the way that communities have changed. So as people started moving further apart from each other, out into suburbs, into less dense areas. bowling leagues are one example of a thing that kind of went into decline. And it makes a lot of connections between just broader changes in society and the way that's imp impacting our relationships and our opportunity to be in social situations like that. So that might be an interesting one for for people to look into. I'll put a link to the to the book in the show notes. Lou Fratto: Yeah, that's interesting. it also kind of reminds me of you know, like you said, changes in society, just how technology can bring us together, like you and I right now talking, you're in Atlanta, I'm in Florida. But Keith: Right. Lou Fratto: I think for a large part also it's it's pulling us, maybe isolating us more. Keith: Yeah. I mean it's a good point. Texts have kind of maybe replaced phone calls, which have replaced Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: some part of actually getting together face to face with people. So again, I I think it goes Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: back to the fact that it takes it takes work to maintain these relationships, you know, and it takes effort and intent. I'm finding it like professionally trying to keep my professional network up, because I've have gone through a job change in the last year. but I'm trying to make a more take a more proactive approach of actually inviting people that I used to work with or people that I know through my professional network to actually go out and have lunch, you know, which used to be something that was fairly common, but changed a little bit, I think, during COVID. And you Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: know, it it it takes a little bit of effort to reach out and actually put that put a lunch on your schedule and go meet with people Yeah. Lou Fratto: And for the most part, you end up you always feel better after those things. You know, you always have fun. Keith: I was about to say the same thing. Like, you know, like you said before, you never feel worse after going to the gym. And, you know, it's rarely, if ever, do you feel worse after, you know, connecting with somebody, having lunch, sitting down, or going to an event and actually interacting with with people, making Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: that intent. So and then you you Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's Keith: wonder why was it so hard for me to to just do it, you know. Lou Fratto: I know, it's kinda like it's just inertia, you know, the Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Newton's laws, you know, object in motion stays in motion and an object at rest stays at rest. That's how I find myself. It's like once I get going, it's so much easier to stay moving and Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: going than that first initial step, you know. Keith: Yeah, yeah, for sure. You mentioned too that you're kind of more on the introvert scale. And you know, one of the things that I understand about being an introvert versus an extrovert isn't necessarily that you don't like being around people if you're more introverted, but you get energy from different things. So introverts tend to need time away. From people to recharge where extroverts actually get a lot of energy from being around more people. And it's not that you can't sort of, you know, teach yourself or force yourself if you are introverted to do public speaking or be in an event or go to a trade show where you have to talk to a lot of people all day. It's just that it might sap your energy more than if you were more extroverted. So That's maybe Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: another reason why it can be a bit of a challenge. Lou Fratto: Yep, I would totally agree. I can I I get energy from both. Like I get energy when I'm around people. I love it. But Keith: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lou Fratto: then I also need time to recharge too. It's like I Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: there's a certain point I'll hit where I'm like, okay, wow, I just, you know, need to need to decompress or whatever, you know. So I need Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: a little bit of both. Keith: Yeah, I think that's pretty common. All right. Well, was there anything else you wanted to cover? Lou Fratto: I think that's pretty much it. It's a pretty simple topic, but if super important and like you said, it takes work, takes an investment, you know. Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's simple but also I think profound in a lot of ways, you know, and could be a little bit complicated. But that idea of anti fragility is an interesting is an interesting concept and also just the idea that we get so much out of these relationships with other people, that maybe we don't think about consciously, but It does a lot of good for us, health wise, longevity wise, and just in general. Lou Fratto: Yeah, and I don't mean to I think what I meant was the relationship part is is a simple concept. and the stress part of it is that can be really challenging for for people and then we all go through times in our life where we have more stress than others and I know that that's definitely can be super challenging, so I don't want to you know minimize that at all. Keith: No, no, for sure. For sure. All right. Well, I didn't I've only got two shout-outs this week. So I don't know if you've got any, but maybe we can we can go through them real quickly. Lou Fratto: Okay. Keith: at least the ones I had. One is for an old gym buddy of mine, Brian Bobian, and he put a comment on our last episode on YouTube. And the episode was about technology. and he just said he really loved the episode and the podcast. So thanks, Brian. Appreciate Lou Fratto: Cool. Keith: it. he was part of our old morning crew. so when I told the story last week about my friend Neron, who also commented, Brian said he misses the old CrossFit morning crew and loved hearing from Neron and so many others as we were figuring out life on the f on the fly. Lou Fratto: cool. Keith: and he said keep up the good work gents so thanks Lou Fratto: All right, thank you. Keith: thanks Brian thanks for listening appreciate it hopefully we can run into each other soon the other shout out was just a quick birthday. So Daniel Truman is another one of our coaches at CrossFit Terminus. He had a birthday. I think he is just on the cusp of 50, if I remember correctly. Lou Fratto: All right. Keith: So he is a really a really good coach, really great guy. He is a big UGA fan. So during football season, he really likes to bust my chops, but good naturedly. I think he forgets that I have, you know, that my wife went to UGA and I have a kid that attends UGA. So I'm not as militant about it Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: as I used to be. But that might change if our football team ever gets better again. And we're actually have a competition. But Lou Fratto: Exactly. We we have we have not been able to say anything to UGA fans for quite a few years, so Keith: Yes. That's been really fun living in Atlanta and having family at the school. But yeah, I've I've I've actually come around to be able to kind of root for UGA almost when we're not playing them, but it's tough. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I can imagine. Keith: Yeah. so those were the only ones that that I had. Did you have anything that you wanted to bring up, Chad out to folks? Lou Fratto: well, I would just yeah, I would just like to mention Trisha. She is the Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: guest contributor this week for our email stories. She wrote a personal story, her story about beating cancer. And I know her and I knew her during that time, and she was amazing how she dealt with it and just how brave she was. And it's it's a really related to this topic today because talk about dealing with stress, you know, and dealing with Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: a challenge and then reframing it to to actually fight it and come out of it on the other end stronger. I just encourage everybody to read that that email. and it's yeah, just what an amazing story. And thank you for sharing your story, Trisha, and for you know, just being such a great person and and you know making it through that battle with such Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: classes to honor to know her. Keith: That's great. Yeah, it's a really good story. And for those of you that are not subscribed, what Lou's talking about is the Substack, which is essentially email subscription platform. And you can get to it at thrive-af.com and there's always a link to it in our show notes. It's pretty easy to subscribe, it's totally free. we send out an article once a week, typically midweek. sometimes we have guest contributors and sometimes it's just information from me and Lou. So go ahead and subscribe. I guess the other plug is follow us on Instagram and I'll put a link to our Instagram account, our growing Instagram account, which has been fun. Mostly Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: clips from the show, but sometimes other stuff. So kind of learning our way back into social media and seeing how that goes. That's been good. Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: all right. Other than that. I don't have my notes for the sign off, so I've Lou Fratto: Go. Keith: I'm gonna have to rely on you to lead the charge. I remember the first part and the second part. So we're gonna try it again. Lou Fratto: Go Yeah, go ahead. Do you do the first part? Keith: Okay. Thanks for listening and until next time. Lou Fratto: Keep challenging yourself. Keith: Keep growing and keep thriving AF. Lou Fratto: And keep thriving AF. Hey, that was a better. Keith: That's not bad. You have you you have got a lot like slower in the pace in the in the final part. Lou Fratto: have I? Keith: Well, I have gotten faster, but Lou Fratto: Again, we have never rehearsed this. We sh probably should put some effort into rehearsing it. Keith: Yeah, I don't know. Lou Fratto: Sorry guys. Keith: At least it feels organic when we screw it up. Lou Fratto: It's definitely organic. All right. Good seeing you, man. You two. Keith: All right, but have a great week. Yeah, you two and we will talk again soon. Thanks everybody. Lou Fratto: All right. Bye. Thanks for listening.