Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / Toxic Friendships, Social Rejection, and the Hidden Health Cost of Mom Groups - Ericka Sóuter on Motherhood, Connection & Emotional Wellbeing

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Toxic Friendships, Social Rejection, and the Hidden Health Cost of Mom Groups - Ericka Sóuter on Motherhood, Connection & Emotional Wellbeing · hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

• [00:00:00] Ericka: Being in a toxic, stressful environment can, can lead to autoimmune disorders. Mm-hmm. And that can [00:00:05] certainly a affect your health. And when it comes to being in, um, [00:00:10] being rejected, it does open up the same and activate the same neuro [00:00:15] pathways as physical pain. Wow. So you do feel something you, you are experiencing [00:00:20] something that is very difficult and very hard to manage. [00:00:23] Ericka: Staying in these negative, [00:00:25] toxic relationships where you're constantly filled with anxiety and fear has a [00:00:30] detrimental effect as well on our mental health. [00:00:32] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:00:32] Ericka: And that is something that we need to [00:00:35] address right away. And especially with our young girls. I know, I mean, I see so many [00:00:40] teenage girls and they're suffering so badly and. [00:00:44] Ericka: The only [00:00:45] way is to help them become stronger in terms of rejecting being [00:00:50] around those types of people. I'm not saying it's easy. Yeah. But I'm saying it's necessary. [00:00:55] [00:00:55] Dr. Taz: When we talk about stress in motherhood, we often focus on sleep deprivation, [00:01:00] work-life balance, or parenting pressure. But there's another source of stress [00:01:05] that many women quietly carry toxic friendships. [00:01:09] Dr. Taz: My [00:01:10] next guest has spent years researching the emotional dynamics of adult female [00:01:15] relationships and the impact that they can have on wellbeing. [00:01:17] Ericka: I talked to a woman who daughter was just. We [00:01:20] just had a complete breakdown. She was at a party with 15 [00:01:25] girlfriends, and then all of a sudden she realized they've all left her. [00:01:27] Ericka: And she was just crying and so upset. [00:01:30] And I was like, oh, well those clearly aren't her friends. Mm-hmm. And then I talked to the mother a few [00:01:35] days later and I was like, how's she doing? And she's like, oh, it's fine. You know what, you know, her closest friends in the group were like, [00:01:40] oh, we just, we hopped in an Uber and we forgot to text you, so everything's good. [00:01:44] Ericka: I was like, [00:01:45] no, [00:01:45] Dr. Taz: no, no, [00:01:46] Ericka: no, no. [00:01:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:01:46] Ericka: it's not good. And you need to tell her [00:01:50] what friendship looks like. Mm-hmm. Friends don't just believe you. Right. There had to have [00:01:55] been one or two people to stay behind. It's actually research shows that the magic number [00:02:00] is two friends. [00:02:02] Dr. Taz: Erica Ser is a journalist and an [00:02:05] author who explores the intersection of friendship, identity, and motherhood.[00:02:10] [00:02:10] Dr. Taz: Today we're talking about why social rejection can feel so painful, [00:02:15] how toxic friendship dynamics develop, and how women can begin protecting their emotional [00:02:20] wellbeing. Let's welcome Erica Suiter to the show. This episode is sponsored by Whole [00:02:25] plus, a holistic health platform built around education, personalization, [00:02:30] and integrative care. [00:02:31] Dr. Taz: Whole plus blends holistic, integrative and functional medicine [00:02:35] clinics with learning resources like blogs, YouTube videos, and of course, this podcast. [00:02:40] So you're not just treated, you're informed. The platform also includes holistic [00:02:45] health quizzes and a curated wellness shop, helping you make choices that support your body at [00:02:50] the root level. [00:02:51] Dr. Taz: Whole Plus is holistic healthcare designed for [00:02:55] real life. Visit us@wholeplus.co to learn more about the [00:03:00] platform. Again, that's HOL ps.co. Erica, I'm so glad you're here [00:03:05] today because over and over again we talk about women needing to be in a [00:03:10] village and needing to be in a community. It's hard to raise children on your own, but you [00:03:15] can be in a toxic village and you can be in what we sometimes will call a [00:03:20] toxic mom group. [00:03:20] Ericka: Mm-hmm. [00:03:21] Dr. Taz: You have written about this, you have researched this. I think the [00:03:25] question that I personally have, 'cause I have sat with this for many different fronts, [00:03:30] whether it's raising children, whether it's being in the professional environment, whether it's our political [00:03:35] system, right? Or our leadership system. [00:03:36] Dr. Taz: You know, why do women. Almost kind [00:03:40] of turn against each other. [00:03:41] Ericka: Well, I think one of the most surprising things that I've found from [00:03:45] the polls that I do across the country and interviewing hundreds of women is that [00:03:50] we have normalized these toxic relationships. And I find that there are [00:03:55] three reasons why women don't reject, reject them or walk away. [00:03:59] Ericka: One is [00:04:00] proximity. [00:04:00] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:04:00] Ericka: Right. So you have a kid and it's the most vulnerable, uh, [00:04:05] part of adulthood for a lot of women. Right. And, you know, I kind of, I liken it to your [00:04:10] whole identity is like shaken up like a snow globe. So that means belonging becomes that much [00:04:15] more mm-hmm. [00:04:15] Dr. Taz: Important. [00:04:15] Ericka: Right? And so who are you around? [00:04:17] Ericka: You're around other new mothers. You're [00:04:20] around at your kids' school or preschool or in the park. And so those relationships in that belonging [00:04:25] become so important. And then the next thing is that we [00:04:30] are socialized not to, you know, shake things up, not to be rude, not to [00:04:35] reject other people. Most of us are socialized that way, and so we don't wanna rock the boat. [00:04:39] Ericka: So we kind of [00:04:40] don't say anything when we see something amiss because we wanna kind of stay in the fold. We wanna stay a [00:04:45] part of the group. We don't wanna be rejected ourselves. And then. The other part [00:04:50] of it is that, you know, if we blow up our social group, right, or if we [00:04:55] reject these friends, then there is collateral damage in our lives, right? [00:04:59] Ericka: [00:05:00] We don't have those people to turn to, and we don't have those people to go to coffee with or brunch with [00:05:05] or invite to birthday parties or be a part of a mom group. So all of those things, I [00:05:10] think, contribute to why women just don't say anything, even when deep down they know [00:05:15] friendships or friend groups are not good for them. [00:05:17] Dr. Taz: Do you feel like this is an issue just as women [00:05:20] become mothers? Or is there sort of just this underlying, you know, [00:05:25] female issue where. Where we will do these very same behaviors with or without children. [00:05:30] You know what I mean? We may be doing them when we're in a college setting. Mm-hmm. We might be doing them in a professional [00:05:35] setting. [00:05:35] Dr. Taz: We might be doing them with friends. We have that, you know, have nothing to do with having kids. Yeah. Or nothing to [00:05:40] do with having a family. Is this, is this something about the way we are wired and then my follow-up [00:05:45] question to that is, you know, if we are wired this way, what specifically does [00:05:50] motherhood, you know, the act of having a child and having that responsibility, what does that do [00:05:55] to this maybe biology or physiology that we might be carrying innately? [00:05:59] Ericka: [00:06:00] Right. Well, I'll, I'll say this first. Okay. Motherhood doesn't create you. [00:06:05] Create toxic female relationships or toxic mom friends. It just gives you [00:06:10] like a new, um, environment or platform, right? Mm-hmm. Because what I've seen is that [00:06:15] girls, uh, young women and girls are, can be toxic throughout their [00:06:20] lives. [00:06:20] Ericka: Right. I've seen situations where, I'll call them case studies, where three year [00:06:25] olds are mistreating each other. [00:06:26] Dr. Taz: Oh. [00:06:26] Ericka: And I, you know, I have boys and [00:06:30] my boys were not capable of the kind of sophisticated [00:06:35] cruelty that I saw these girls exhibit. And, um, and of course, [00:06:40] you know, and when you're little, it's kind of like, you're not pretty. [00:06:42] Ericka: We don't wanna play with you. We don't like you can't be our friend. [00:06:45] And those things sting. [00:06:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:06:46] Ericka: And rejection, no matter at what age it, um, [00:06:50] neuroscience has shown that it, it activates the same neural pathways as physical pain. [00:06:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:06:54] Ericka: So it [00:06:55] actually, it really does hurt. Right. And so I think that it starts, it can start as [00:07:00] early as three and it can continue throughout our lives. [00:07:03] Ericka: And there are [00:07:05] evolutionary psychologists who believe that it's from the days when, [00:07:10] you know, we needed to outshine other women to find someone to protect us and [00:07:15] to take care of us. So you have to kind of like, you know, outshine your competitor. [00:07:19] Dr. Taz: [00:07:20] Mm-hmm. [00:07:20] Ericka: And so there is an argument that maybe that's some kind of like [00:07:25] genetic reason, or it's somehow embedded in our DNA that we need [00:07:30] to survive. [00:07:30] Ericka: And to be survive, you have to be like at the top of the pyramid. [00:07:33] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:07:34] Ericka: But I [00:07:35] think that it's just, we haven't done the work to [00:07:40] eradicate this behavior. And the reason is, and I've interviewed as many mean [00:07:45] girls as I have, um, targets and victims. [00:07:47] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:07:47] Ericka: There is no penalty. [00:07:50] [00:07:50] Dr. Taz: For being a mean [00:07:50] Ericka: girl. For being a mean girl. [00:07:51] Ericka: There's no reason to stop because there is no penalty. [00:07:55] So I'm advocating for there to be a penalty. But for, but in order for there to be a penalty, [00:08:00] you need what I call the disruptors to step forward, [00:08:03] Dr. Taz: right. [00:08:03] Ericka: And put up [00:08:05] boundaries, reject the behavior and stand up for being kinder. [00:08:10] I'm not saying women have to be nice all the time, [00:08:11] Dr. Taz: right? [00:08:12] Ericka: But you don't have to accept that, uh, [00:08:15] small group, one person or a small group of women are gonna dictate how you treat every other woman in your [00:08:20] life. [00:08:20] Dr. Taz: I've been on a unfortunate front row to, to much of this and much [00:08:25] of it through my, my daughter's experience who's now 18 years old and, you [00:08:30] know, have. [00:08:31] Dr. Taz: Have sort of witnessed how this has played out in her [00:08:35] school friends and in her, you know, in who she's been around over the years and what that's done to me [00:08:40] personally in terms of who that puts me around. Mm-hmm. At the same time. Right. I [00:08:45] think the first thing that I would want my listeners and and viewers to [00:08:50] understand is how do you even recognize that you're in a toxic group to begin [00:08:55] with? [00:08:55] Dr. Taz: Right. So many of us, myself included with everything that I know mm-hmm. We are so [00:09:00] much. Once you become a mom, it is so much about your child, right? So [00:09:05] much of us are just like, okay, anything to make you okay and mentally healthy and happy, and emotionally safe. [00:09:10] What do I need to do? Do I need to go enter this group? [00:09:13] Dr. Taz: Do I need to do this? Do I need to do that? [00:09:15] You know, that, that was a lot of what was in my mind as I've gone through the years and trust me, I've tried [00:09:20] and it's. You know, how does someone know that they have [00:09:25] entered maybe a group or a dynamic that really isn't good for them or for their [00:09:30] child? Right? How do you know? [00:09:31] Ericka: Well, uh, let me say this first. The stakes are higher [00:09:35] after you have kids because you're not just asking, you know. Will they [00:09:40] accept me? It's will they accept my kid? Mm-hmm. Will my kid have play dates? Will she be [00:09:45] socialized? Right. Will she feel happy and have fun and feel a part of something? [00:09:49] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:09:49] Ericka: [00:09:50] So when you're a mom and you're watching this, and then you're also thinking about it for yourself as [00:09:55] well, um, it just raises the stakes and it makes it, it makes belonging that [00:10:00] much more important in your life. [00:10:02] Ericka: Right. So I think one of the first [00:10:05] things that, um. And I think it starts with the mom. Right? Right. 'cause kids, uh, [00:10:10] young girls, they don't learn about friendship from what we tell them. They learn by [00:10:15] what we show them. [00:10:16] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:10:16] Ericka: So if they see you kind of accepting nasty [00:10:20] behavior or, um, merciless gossiping mm-hmm. [00:10:24] Ericka: Or [00:10:25] exclusion, they're going to mirror that. And they may not, you know, say, oh, I'm gonna mirror that. They're not saying that, but [00:10:30] they are, they're taking it in and they're seeing that that's okay. Such sponges. Such sponges. Yeah. But [00:10:35] they're not just seeing it from, it's not just the, you know, we'll call the queen bee or mean girl [00:10:40] that sets the tone. [00:10:40] Ericka: It's all the women in between. Right. So we have call the flying [00:10:45] monkeys. Mm-hmm. Who are, you know, a part of this, you know, mean girl clique. [00:10:50] Or mean mom, click, who kind of keep that, the rules going, right? [00:10:55] Who kind of, um, kind of like the second in command to Yeah. The, the mean girl. And then you have [00:11:00] like the, um, emotional arsonist who kind of fans the flame of the gossip and [00:11:05] the issues, right? [00:11:06] Ericka: But then you have people, um, underneath that, which I call the [00:11:10] stabilizers. Who, so that first group was the Amplify amplifiers. The second group is the stabilizers. [00:11:14] Dr. Taz: So [00:11:15] wait, so you have the Flying Monkey? [00:11:16] Ericka: Yeah. So Flying Monkey, the me, the me, the, let's say the [00:11:20] Queen bee. The queen bee, the flying monkey. Okay. [00:11:21] Ericka: The emotional arsonist. Okay. Those are all the, um, the. [00:11:25] Amplifiers. Right? Okay. They keep that whole culture going. And then you have the [00:11:30] stabilizers who, this will be like the silent person. Mm. Um, the, [00:11:35] the person who maybe wants to a bit of social climber, who doesn't wanna see anything, doesn't wanna rock a boat [00:11:40] 'cause they wanna be a part of the group. [00:11:41] Ericka: But then what to, to change this, you need the disruptors, right? And these are [00:11:45] the women who set boundaries, who call out bad behavior and who [00:11:50] aren't fearful of the consequences. Now, that's a hard. Position to be in [00:11:54] Dr. Taz: Very much. [00:11:55] Yeah. [00:11:55] Ericka: Very hard. [00:11:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:11:56] Ericka: And sometimes it takes a lot of experience and a [00:12:00] lot of hurt to get to the point where you're gonna call it out. [00:12:02] Ericka: Something that I've done, I, I have lived that and I [00:12:05] became what I think is a disruptor. Hmm. And I called out bad behavior and I lost friends [00:12:10] because of it. But I was at a stage in my life where I was like, I didn't want to feel [00:12:15] this endless competition in comparison. Mm-hmm. I didn't wanna leave a meeting with people [00:12:20] feeling not great, less great than or not great. [00:12:23] Ericka: Yeah. And I didn't want to [00:12:25] put other people down to make myself feel good. And it really does take [00:12:30] a mom or a woman asking herself these questions and taking a look [00:12:35] at how she feels when she's with these people. And is that worth it? And [00:12:40] also understanding your self-worth. Like I came to the point where I'm like, you know what? [00:12:43] Ericka: I'm a pretty nice person. I'm a [00:12:45] fun person. I'll have friends, I'll make friends. But I know it's hard to get to that point, but I [00:12:50] want more women to realize that they're gonna find kinship with people who are less [00:12:55] toxic. But it really starts with asking yourself, how do you feel when you're with these people? [00:12:59] Ericka: [00:13:00] You know? And then ask your daughter the same thing. [00:13:03] Dr. Taz: It's so hard. I, I mean, [00:13:05] I hope people are, are listening and sharing this because I think when I entered motherhood. [00:13:10] You know, first of all, if we back up to female friendships in general, I've had the most amazing women [00:13:15] in my life, right. I, I adore them and love them, but we've had commonality in terms [00:13:20] of intellectual compatibility, you know, career maybe goals or ambition or [00:13:25] things like that, you know, character. [00:13:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. And morals and values. There's been some [00:13:30] commonality there. I think when you become a mother, you, I've been on a [00:13:35] journey of being stretched, right? Yeah. Which is a spiritual journey. I think that we all go on as mothers [00:13:40] and we start to dip our toe into environments where maybe all those things don't [00:13:45] necessarily exist altogether. [00:13:46] Dr. Taz: It doesn't mean that anybody is less than or not enough or things [00:13:50] like that. It just means we're stretching and we're stretching into new territory. The, the [00:13:55] health part of this equation though, is it's, it's like when we enter this new dimension [00:14:00] and you're maybe that. Stabilizer or disruptor in a toxic mom group, you [00:14:05] know, is that really good for you to stay in that group? [00:14:08] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Leaving constantly [00:14:10] feeling like you're not enough or feeling like, you know, you're in a lower pecking [00:14:15] order. Mm-hmm. You know, in terms of who's within the group, you know, what does a disruptor do, [00:14:20] you know, and how can one of the other three, you know, the flying monkey, the queen bee, the emotional [00:14:25] arsonist. [00:14:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. You know, how can we help them identify that this is their [00:14:30] behavior? [00:14:30] Ericka: Right. It has to be called out. [00:14:32] Dr. Taz: Ooh. [00:14:32] Ericka: And that is so hard to [00:14:33] Dr. Taz: drama. A [00:14:35] little [00:14:35] Ericka: drama. [00:14:35] Dr. Taz: Where's, where's Showtime now? Totally. We need, we need a show for this. So [00:14:39] Ericka: it [00:14:40] has to be called out and it takes a, an incredible amount of bravery to do [00:14:45] that. [00:14:45] Ericka: But once you do that, and the women that I've talked to that have done that, they're happier on the other [00:14:50] side. [00:14:50] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:14:50] Ericka: But you, but it may take a little bit of, you know, pain in the [00:14:55] process because you're wondering, well, who's gonna still be in my friend who's gonna, you know, still hang out with me? [00:15:00] And. [00:15:00] Ericka: What you'll find is that there will be people who are gonna align with [00:15:05] you and want the same things. I found that for myself. [00:15:07] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:15:08] Ericka: And I think that, [00:15:10] you know, the amplifiers, I mean the, the fine monkeys, the the mean girls, the [00:15:15] emotional arsonists, I have found that they are less likely to change. Mm. ' [00:15:19] Dr. Taz: cause [00:15:19] Ericka: [00:15:20] there hasn't been enough of a penalty. [00:15:21] Ericka: Right. There's no consequence to the behavior because so many of [00:15:25] us are afraid to say anything. Or so many people just kind of like make excuses for them. Oh, well [00:15:30] she doesn't do that to me. Or, or, you know, that's just her personality. Yeah. I'm like, well, that's, it shouldn't be your personality and [00:15:35] if it is her personality, there should be a consequence. [00:15:37] Ericka: So they're not gonna change. But when you [00:15:40] have the stabilizers who are kind of just kind of going along for the ride, happy to be a part of the mix. [00:15:45] They have to realize their own self-worth. Right. And I, I do think [00:15:50] that there's self-esteem issues, their belonging issues, and you know, every woman has gone through it. [00:15:54] Ericka: Right? [00:15:55] Right, [00:15:55] Dr. Taz: right. [00:15:55] Ericka: But you have to get to the point where you realize that your value is greater than how you're being [00:16:00] treated [00:16:00] Dr. Taz: as a holistic practitioner. I believe the journey to motherhood starts long [00:16:05] before that first positive test. It starts with nourishing your body's unique rhythm [00:16:10] and understanding that fertility is a cellular process. [00:16:13] Dr. Taz: While many [00:16:15] focus solely on the calendar, the real driver of a healthy pregnancy is egg quality. [00:16:20] Your eggs are the most energy demanding cells in your body, and that energy [00:16:25] is fueled by mitochondrial health. 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It's about giving your cells the fuel it [00:17:25] your body, the tools to do what it was meant to do. Take the first step today.[00:17:30] [00:17:30] Dr. Taz: Head over to you natural.com and use my special listener code Task 20 [00:17:35] for 20% off your first order. How do we help? [00:17:40] Women with this, how do we help them when they step into a group? Right. And [00:17:45] again, you know, there's so many different ways to paint this, right? Mm-hmm. There are people that enter into [00:17:50] social clubs mm-hmm. [00:17:50] Dr. Taz: For example, and there's a, a purpose in being in that [00:17:55] club, whatever the purpose may be. [00:17:56] Ericka: Yeah. [00:17:57] Dr. Taz: You know, and they are so excited to [00:18:00] be a part of this club that they are afraid to call things out, or they are afraid to [00:18:05] disrupt something that might have been around for hundreds of years and is an institution. [00:18:09] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Right. And again, [00:18:10] we can extract this to our world stage as well. Right. But when you [00:18:15] enter a group of, of moms, right. And, and for the first time, maybe it's a new school, [00:18:20] maybe it's a new activity. And now you've been introduced to this, this new group, you've moved into a new home. [00:18:24] Ericka: Yeah. [00:18:25] [00:18:25] Dr. Taz: Are there things that you can instantly before you're into deep? [00:18:29] Dr. Taz: Because again, I've [00:18:30] been in this situation and it's taken me, you know, to get older and over time to be like, [00:18:35] it's taken me a while to understand that I walk in here and I don't feel good and I should [00:18:40] not be here anymore. You know what I did nine times outta 10? I would say it's me. [00:18:45] The problem is me. I'm this, I'm too nerdy, I'm too in my head, I'm too [00:18:50] cerebral. [00:18:50] Dr. Taz: Like they're just having a good time. You know, I'd make all these excuses Yeah. [00:18:55] For them and blame myself. And I'm like, you know, of course my daughter's gonna have issues with [00:19:00] this. 'cause her mom is like, so like, you know, you know, one foot in front of the other, you know, that type of [00:19:05] person. And so I spent a lot of years blaming myself. [00:19:08] Ericka: Hmm. [00:19:09] Dr. Taz: I wish I hadn't done [00:19:10] that. I wish I had been like, this is not the group for us. These are not the friends for you. Yeah. You know, [00:19:15] you are me and I am you and these are our values and morals and yes, we are cerebral and that's just [00:19:20] one of, yeah, one of the natures of how we're wired. You know, how could I have prevented [00:19:25] all those years of like. [00:19:27] Dr. Taz: I don't even know how to describe it. Just feeling like I'm, it's almost [00:19:30] like you're trying to slide through doors that are closing. You know, how could I have been like, [00:19:35] no, no, and no. Okay. [00:19:36] Ericka: So I think one of the most basic things that we need to do as parents [00:19:40] and, you know, and as individual women who want connection, is we have to diversify [00:19:45] our social groups. [00:19:45] Ericka: We can't rely on one group, and I think doing that for our daughters is so [00:19:50] significant. You know, what I have found is when a, a mom or a family relies on [00:19:55] just the kids in school or just the parents in school, when something goes wrong, then they're left out. They're [00:20:00] isolated, they ostracized. Mm-hmm. But when you have a kid who does ballet and soccer and this and or church [00:20:05] group, and there are lots of ways that she, she has connection or even for a woman and [00:20:10] she has lots of points of connection that aren't in the same group. [00:20:12] Ericka: It gives you, it, it allows you to [00:20:15] see. The the bad parts sooner, right? Yeah. Because you can see like, [00:20:20] oh, you know, I don't like the way I feel with the moms and the PTA, but I love when I'm hanging out with the [00:20:25] soccer moms. Right. Or, I love it when I hang out with my church group or whatever it is, or my co my food co-op [00:20:30] group. [00:20:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:20:30] Ericka: And so I think that one of the basic things we can do for ourselves is diversify our [00:20:35] friend groups, our social groups for our kids and ourselves. [00:20:37] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh, that's such a great idea. It's [00:20:40] such a great idea. But I'm gonna push back on that for a second. [00:20:42] Ericka: Mm-hmm. [00:20:43] Dr. Taz: Because as a mother [00:20:45] and for all the working mothers that are out there. [00:20:47] Dr. Taz: Yeah, right. You know, one of the things that many of us have [00:20:50] talked about is this the load. We call it the invisible load. Yeah. You know, this constant hum. There's always [00:20:55] something to do. There's 50 things to organize their logistics. If you have one kid, it's a lot. If [00:21:00] you have three kids, it's even more. I don't know how people do it when they pass, you know, a couple of kids. [00:21:04] Dr. Taz: [00:21:05] So this idea of diversifying your social groups. I even in those [00:21:10] years was like, this is what we need to do, you know? Mm-hmm. But guess what? I had no time, I had no [00:21:15] time to make those connections, to go out and like, you [00:21:20] know, you know, go find a new set of people mm-hmm. To connect with and be with and things like that.[00:21:25] [00:21:25] Dr. Taz: How can we, how do we navigate that as women that work and have careers, but we also wanna be [00:21:30] present for our children, and we wanna make sure our children are emotionally taken care of. Yeah. Like, you know, is [00:21:35] there, is there a hack? Is there a hack for that to like figure that part out sooner, [00:21:40] faster, and more efficiently? [00:21:41] Ericka: Uh, I think one of the problems that we have is we assume that connection are these [00:21:45] big moments. Oh, let's, we're gonna do karaoke together. We're gonna have, like, you know, we're meeting for breakfast or [00:21:50] brunch Connection happens on very small levels. And it's, it's about, um, the [00:21:55] number of times you connect, not. [00:21:56] Ericka: How long you spend together or exactly what you [00:22:00] do. Mm. It could be texts every other day or once a week, or conversations every [00:22:05] other Sunday, or meeting at, you know, soccer, going to soccer practice on a Sunday [00:22:10] afternoon, or meeting with your, um, whatever activity it is, like if it's a [00:22:15] church group or, uh, a sewing circle or what have you. [00:22:19] Ericka: I think the point [00:22:20] is, is that it's consistency, but it, that [00:22:25] doesn't necessarily mean frequency. Mm-hmm. I, it's hard for me to explain, but it's connection. It's [00:22:30] connection. But connection doesn't have to be these big grand moments and it built over time. And I think a lot of [00:22:35] times people think like, oh, I wanna meet this group of women and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna connect and we're gonna be great. [00:22:39] Ericka: It takes a [00:22:40] while to find your people. [00:22:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:41] Ericka: For kids and adults, it's not gonna be [00:22:45] instantaneous. In most cases. It's going to take a little bit of time and investment, but it doesn't mean [00:22:50] it has to be hours at a time. It could be coffee every other week. It [00:22:55] could be like. A zoom. It could be, there are lots of ways to [00:23:00] build that connection and that relationship. [00:23:02] Ericka: Now, I'm not saying it's easy 'cause I am tired [00:23:05] all the time. Right. But I try to make a point of doing these things. [00:23:09] Dr. Taz: [00:23:10] Mm. [00:23:10] Ericka: Once in a while. And one of the things that I started doing is I, I mean, I don't have time. [00:23:15] I mean, I read a lot of books for work. [00:23:17] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:23:17] Ericka: I do a lot of research and I read like everything on [00:23:20] parenting you can imagine. [00:23:21] Ericka: But um, and people are in book, book clubs. I'm thinking, oh my God, I just don't have [00:23:25] time to like read a book for fun. But what I did was like, I started this club that's [00:23:30] not club, but this sc called bookish and I send. 10 friends the article, and [00:23:35] I'm like, okay, we're gonna get together for two hours once a month and we're gonna just discuss the issues in this article. [00:23:39] Ericka: [00:23:40] And we're, it is, it's really just to like, oh, I love that. Hang out. [00:23:42] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:23:43] Ericka: And it, the pressure's low. Yeah. Like, right. [00:23:45] And people can usually read an article or There's so many articles on audio right now. Yeah. You can like, [00:23:49] Dr. Taz: [00:23:50] yeah. [00:23:50] Ericka: So, and, and everyone's excited and everyone wants to come because they're also, you know, [00:23:55] yearning for that connection. [00:23:56] Ericka: Yeah. So, and this is the other thing, like if you need it, you want it the way [00:24:00] you're feeling. There are a hundred other women who are feeling, that are feeling thing. You're not alone in that. And [00:24:05] sometimes we have this idea of thinking like, ah, I'm the only one who's not doing this, or I can't figure this [00:24:10] out. [00:24:10] Ericka: Everyone around Jews. You know, don't look at Instagram and Yeah. And think that that's real [00:24:15] life. [00:24:15] Dr. Taz: Oh, Instagram. [00:24:15] Ericka: No. [00:24:16] Dr. Taz: It's a whole separate story, but one of the things I talk about from a health perspective mm-hmm. [00:24:20] Over and over again. [00:24:20] Ericka: Yeah. [00:24:20] Dr. Taz: Uh, we talk a lot about the five bodies, right. I've talked about it before on the show. [00:24:24] Dr. Taz: There's a [00:24:25] physical body, there's a mental body, there's an emotional body. There's sort of like this energetic or [00:24:30] spiritual body, which is your relationship, you know, kind of with the universe or God. And then there's this [00:24:35] community body, and it's a part of health. Mm-hmm. Which is why this conversation is so important. [00:24:39] Dr. Taz: I think that [00:24:40] if we don't pay attention to the community that we are existing in, and those [00:24:45] relationships within that community, especially mom groups, which by the way, drive usually the health of the whole [00:24:50] family and the community of the family, right. Because the mom is usually driving, you know, who our kids are gonna [00:24:55] be friends with, even who our husband's gonna be friends with to a certain extent, right? [00:24:58] Dr. Taz: I have one mom friend who's like, oh, [00:25:00] I arrange play dates for my husband all the time, right? Because otherwise men will shut down and kind of do their [00:25:05] own thing, right? Often this universe, so you know, when we think of this in the health [00:25:10] context, right? It's important to have this piece of your health as healthy [00:25:15] as your lab values and your hormones and your inflammation markers, and your mental health and all these [00:25:20] other things that we talk about. [00:25:21] Dr. Taz: But for many women. How much do you think, and I don't [00:25:25] know if you've explored this in your research, I'm curious, like for women that are simply [00:25:30] not healthy mm-hmm. They are tired, they're exhausted, you know, they don't feel [00:25:35] good about themselves, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, how vulnerable are those [00:25:40] women in particular to a toxic mom group? [00:25:42] Ericka: Well, they're incredibly vulnerable [00:25:45] because they're so, it's, you're so desperate for connection. You're willing to put up with things [00:25:50] that you normally wouldn't, or things that you kind of know deep down don't serve [00:25:55] you. But, you know, here's the, here's the one thing I have found about mothers is that, [00:26:00] you know, we will put everyone else's needs above our own. [00:26:04] Ericka: We'll ask, and then we'll [00:26:05] ask, am I being, am I being a good employee? Am I being a good wife? Am I being a good mother? But [00:26:10] we also need connection. And it's not that we need more friends, we need better [00:26:15] friendships. Hmm. And so you have to really ask yourself, you know, am I. [00:26:20] You know, does this friendship make me feel good? [00:26:22] Ericka: Does this friendship serve me? [00:26:25] You know, it doesn't have have to be like, you know, totally reciprocal. You know, like [00:26:30] someone takes you out to dinner. You don't always have to like do tit for tat. [00:26:33] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:26:33] Ericka: But there has to be some kind [00:26:35] of emotional touchstone, like this person, I'll give an example. So I have a friend, a [00:26:40] really good friend, Anita, and sometimes I go through these periods where I'm so overwhelmed and I'm so, and I kind of [00:26:45] like drop out of sight for a couple days. [00:26:47] Ericka: Mm-hmm. And she'd be like, I do [00:26:48] Dr. Taz: that too. Yeah. [00:26:48] Ericka: And she'll be like, Hey, what's going [00:26:50] on with you? [00:26:50] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:26:51] Ericka: You know? And she's that friend who [00:26:55] she will reach out, just be like, Hey, I just wanna see what's going on with you. And sometimes we need that. We can be that for [00:27:00] someone and we need someone to be that for us. [00:27:02] Ericka: But it's not about these big splashy moments. It's [00:27:05] about those little moments where, you know, someone cares about how you feel. You, [00:27:10] not just your kids, not your husband, not, you know. Yeah. But they care about what you are going through. [00:27:15] And I, I think that we need to have those people in our lives, but we also need to [00:27:20] make the effort to be those people. [00:27:22] Dr. Taz: Do you feel like most women neglect this, [00:27:25] like finding people that care about them versus their child [00:27:30] and who their child's gonna play with and, you know, their marriage and, and stuff like that? Do you feel like [00:27:35] most women are not really great at this? [00:27:37] Ericka: Yeah. I think most women neglect their needs. Mm-hmm. [00:27:39] Ericka: [00:27:40] Absolutely. And, um, and I, and that's not just my opinion. I have interviewed hundreds of [00:27:45] women. Yeah. And that is what I have found. You know, that's, I mean, that's why I wrote this book, you know, how to have a [00:27:50] kid in a life. And it's not about like, oh, you know, go shopping, get a mani pedi. I mani, [00:27:55] petties are not self-care to me. [00:27:56] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:27:57] Ericka: At all. Um, I, I think [00:28:00] that what you have to do is you have to ask yourself questions about what you need to find out what is [00:28:05] missing. Right. You know, is my, for some women, it's their relationship isn't, their [00:28:10] romantic relationship isn't serving them, or is their career isn't going in the right direction [00:28:15] or it's, you know, their, he their physical health. [00:28:17] Ericka: But you really have to sit [00:28:20] down and ask yourself, and it could be in the shower, it could be in the bathtub, it could be driving to work. [00:28:25] But you really have to evaluate what is missing in your life and then kind of work to fill that. [00:28:30] [00:28:30] Dr. Taz: I'm curious, so, you know, those of us that are vulnerable maybe to being in, in this toxic [00:28:35] mom group dynamic or toxic friend group dynamic. [00:28:38] Dr. Taz: Are you also vulnerable [00:28:40] to being in toxic romantic relationships and toxic partnerships? Is there an [00:28:45] overlap there? I don't know if your research showed any of that or not. I'm just curious. Super curious. [00:28:48] Ericka: Yeah. You know, I haven't [00:28:50] researched that specifically, but what I have found is that when [00:28:55] women have toxic friendships, it can impact their home life. [00:28:59] Dr. Taz: [00:29:00] Mm. [00:29:00] Ericka: It can affect the way they are with their partners and their children. So when you [00:29:05] have, and I've also seen that when people have chaotic and toxic work environments, 'cause they're [00:29:10] bringing it home and, and, and it impacts how they can sometimes speak or relate or, [00:29:15] um, how they are when they're, when they're not at work, they're still thinking about, they're still obsessing about it and it [00:29:20] still has this emotional impact on them. [00:29:22] Ericka: So I, I don't wanna specifically. [00:29:25] Address, like whether you're more vulnerable to toxic [00:29:30] romantic relationships. Right. Because I think that pathology is different. [00:29:33] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:29:34] Ericka: But I, I [00:29:35] absolutely think having a toxic social group can impact your family life. [00:29:40] [00:29:40] Dr. Taz: Well, one of the things, you know, that I've seen too, and I mean, and you know, we've always, you know, you observe it and then you move [00:29:45] on. [00:29:45] Dr. Taz: But, you know, you'll see a, a mom group [00:29:47] Ericka: mm-hmm. [00:29:47] Dr. Taz: Where one person goes and [00:29:50] gets like a plastic surgery procedure, for example. The next thing you know, they're all getting that [00:29:55] exact same procedure. Or you'll see another group where one person gets divorced and the next thing you know, [00:30:00] all of those people are getting divorced. [00:30:02] Dr. Taz: What's happening in those scenarios of [00:30:05] moms being together? [00:30:06] Ericka: Well, I do think there is a tremendous amount of comparison that [00:30:10] goes on, you know, motherhood is. Was always hard. Right. But now it's [00:30:15] hard and on display. [00:30:16] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:30:16] Ericka: Right. Yeah. And so I think there is a lot of, you know, using [00:30:20] that old phrase, keeping up with the Joneses. [00:30:22] Ericka: Mm-hmm. There's this idea that, you know, I don't wanna be [00:30:25] the oldest looking one in the group, and if so-and-so's getting her eyes done, then maybe I should do it. And [00:30:30] I've seen it with my, my own friends. Mm-hmm. Like it a, a, you know, a lifter or something and they're like, oh, should [00:30:35] I do that? Or should I consider doing that all the time? [00:30:37] Ericka: You know? [00:30:37] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:30:37] Ericka: And I think that there's, some of that is normal [00:30:40] because as we age, appearance, we have issues with like, oh my God, I'm getting wrinkles, I'm getting older. Mm-hmm. [00:30:45] And that, that's hard for everyone. [00:30:46] Dr. Taz: Right, right, right. [00:30:46] Ericka: So I do think that when your [00:30:50] friend does it kind of gives you permission. [00:30:51] Ericka: And it doesn't necessarily have to be a, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. [00:30:54] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:30:54] Ericka: [00:30:55] Un unless you take it to extremes. But kind of like when someone kind of breaks that seal and just [00:31:00] starts it, it can start everyone thinking about it. But I do think there are more [00:31:05] negative, uh, incident that I've seen where, um.[00:31:10] [00:31:10] Ericka: One person decides they hate someone in the group. Mm-hmm. And then everyone kind of falls in line and [00:31:15] rejects that person or ostracizes that person. Yeah. And it's so strange because, and I've seen it personally, and [00:31:20] I've seen it from interviewing people and it's so strange to me. We're like, we're grown women and we kind of [00:31:25] let someone else dictate who we can be friends with. [00:31:28] Ericka: Yeah. And then some of these women are, [00:31:30] you know, a lot of people ask me, oh, you must talk mostly to stay at home moms. Or these must be like housewives or [00:31:35] suburban wives who don't have anything to do. That's not true. It is everyone. I've interviewed everyone from [00:31:40] CEOs to people who are like fashion designers, like all these people who have these big careers, and then in [00:31:45] their personal life with their friends, they allow themselves to be, um, [00:31:50] mistreated. [00:31:50] Ericka: Mm. And it's really, sometimes it's really surprising. But again, it's this, you know, [00:31:55] there is an epidemic of loneliness and we sometimes we feel like we just need people, you know, we [00:32:00] need a group of women around us so that we aren't so lonely, but we are mistaking, [00:32:05] um. The numbers for, you know, true connection.[00:32:10] [00:32:10] Ericka: You know, you can have a group of women around you and still feel [00:32:15] lonely and dejected, and that's not what you want. [00:32:18] Dr. Taz: I'm curious what [00:32:20] neuroscience says about a couple of things. What does the science say about women who stay in [00:32:25] toxic friend groups, toxic mom groups. Mm-hmm. Is there any research around that in terms of, you know, [00:32:30] their stress levels, their levels of inflammation? [00:32:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm super curious. And then [00:32:35] the other part is, you know, let's say you are that disruptor and you are that person who's like, [00:32:40] Hey, wait a second. You know, and you call something out and you get rejected. [00:32:45] That fear of rejection is huge for anybody as a human. Right. And we definitely see it in, you know, in our [00:32:50] kids. [00:32:50] Dr. Taz: What does social rejection do to the brain? [00:32:53] Ericka: Mm-hmm. Well, I'll, I'll [00:32:55] say this. There is, there is research that suggests that. [00:33:00] Being in a toxic, stressful environment can ha, can lead to autoimmune [00:33:05] disorders. Mm-hmm. And that can certainly a affect your health and when it comes to being [00:33:10] in, um, being rejected. [00:33:13] Ericka: Yeah. I mean it's, it's painful. [00:33:15] Like we, we, it does open up the same and activate the same neuro pathways as [00:33:20] physical pain. Wow. So you do feel something you, you are experiencing something that is very [00:33:25] difficult and very hard to manage, but. The long-term [00:33:30] emotional effects to, for like depression and anxiety? [00:33:33] Ericka: Yeah. We're, we are at epidemic [00:33:35] levels for women and girls and I mean e even young men even we see it [00:33:40] with teens and, and, and boys. But staying in these negative toxic [00:33:45] relationships where you're constantly filled with anxiety and fear has a detrimental [00:33:50] effect as well on our mental health. Mm. [00:33:52] Ericka: And that is something that we need to [00:33:55] address right away. [00:33:55] Ericka: And especially with our young girls. I know. I mean, I see so many teenage [00:34:00] girls and they're suffering so badly. And, and even when you see, like, you see someone, [00:34:05] oh, they have friends and they're going out, but you know, behind those closed doors and what their [00:34:10] parents are dealing with, with them is a lot of depression and anxiety. [00:34:13] Ericka: And [00:34:15] the only way. To, I feel like one of the only ways to remedy that [00:34:20] is to help them become stronger in terms of rejecting being around those [00:34:25] types of people or reject or stop being in groups that make them feel this way. [00:34:29] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:34:29] Ericka: It's [00:34:30] hard, right? If it was easy, we would've done, I mean, we would've, we would've eradicated mean girls and [00:34:35] toxicity generations ago. [00:34:36] Ericka: Instead, we're generations end into the same kind of [00:34:40] behavior. But I, I really, it's kind of like, um, it's like a call to [00:34:45] action. Yeah. And that's what I'm pushing for. And with examples of people who did it and [00:34:50] went through the hard parts and came out better on the other side. I'm not saying [00:34:55] it's easy. [00:34:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:34:55] Ericka: But I'm saying it's necessary. [00:34:57] Dr. Taz: What do you want women to do? Like, you know, [00:35:00] I. Uh, what do you want women to do for themselves and what do [00:35:05] you want us to do for our girls? You know, how do we protect them? I, in the clinic, [00:35:10] day in and day out, we see teenage girls suffering from anxiety and [00:35:15] depression. Mm-hmm. [00:35:15] Dr. Taz: I've told you I've had a front row seat to this. And again, I don't wanna, you know, divulge too much to [00:35:20] protect her privacy. Yeah, of course. But, but it is an issue in our home. [00:35:23] Ericka: Yeah. [00:35:24] Dr. Taz: You know, [00:35:25] I know a lot, I have a lot of resources and I feel completely helpless. You know, what [00:35:30] can we do? You know, as mothers, you know, as women, you know, what [00:35:35] is it, what is your call to action for people like us who are, who are truly struggling? [00:35:39] Ericka: Yeah. [00:35:40] [00:35:40] Dr. Taz: To prop their daughters up when everything is on display. Right. You know, it like, [00:35:45] it makes my blood boil a little bit, honestly. It's like I'll go to something [00:35:50] and it's like hugs and kisses. Oh my God, you're so cute. You're so pretty. You're, you're so this. Oh my God, you're [00:35:55] gorgeous. You look so great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:35:57] Dr. Taz: You go home, you're not invited to the [00:36:00] dance, you're not invited to this, you're not invited to that. But guess what? In today's age, you can open up [00:36:05] social media and you can see everybody having a really great time on Snap or Instagram or [00:36:10] wherever you wanna go. [00:36:10] Ericka: Yeah. [00:36:11] Dr. Taz: You know, so that social rejection that somebody experiences [00:36:15] day in and day out is causing a mental health crisis. [00:36:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. You know? So [00:36:20] what are we all supposed to do? You know, both as mothers, both as girls. What do you want people to do? [00:36:24] Ericka: [00:36:25] Well, you have to clean up those relationships in your own life first. Wow. [00:36:30] Um, you really do. And because our kids are watching and they're taking [00:36:35] notes, you know, mental notes. Mm-hmm. So I want, it starts with us [00:36:40] changing how our, our relationships and, and rooting ourselves of those toxic relationships [00:36:45] or categories, being honest about what they are and removing ourselves [00:36:50] from, you know, it doesn't mean you can't have coffee with some people. [00:36:52] Ericka: Right, right, right. Or, you know, go to a cocktail party and chat. [00:36:55] But it's how you participate in those relationships. And I'm not talking about just gossip, women gossip is [00:37:00] actually shown to be kind of like great for us. Yeah. To have a little gossip sesh. Yeah. And have [00:37:05] little fun. [00:37:05] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:37:05] Ericka: So I'm not saying that, but I'm saying when you see true someone, you know, a group of women being, you [00:37:10] know, excluding people being so toxic that they're tearing other people down and you [00:37:15] participating in that, even your silence speaks volumes to your kid. [00:37:18] Ericka: So it starts with us looking in [00:37:20] the mirror and changing the way we. Engage other women [00:37:25] and, and then work with our daughters. So we lead by example, but then we also talk to them. You know, I talked [00:37:30] to a woman who daughter was just. Just had a complete breakdown. She was at a [00:37:35] party with 15 girlfriends. I'm thinking, no one has 15 [00:37:38] Dr. Taz: girlfriend. [00:37:38] Dr. Taz: Right, right. [00:37:39] Ericka: [00:37:40] But she's at a party with 15 girlfriends and she's hanging out. And then all of a sudden she realized they've all left her. And she [00:37:45] was just crying and so upset. And I was like, oh, well those clearly aren't [00:37:50] her friends. And then I talked to the mother a few days later and I was like, how's she doing? [00:37:53] Ericka: And she's like, oh, it's fine. You [00:37:55] know what? You know, her closest friends in the group were like, oh, we just, we hopped in an Uber and we forgot to [00:38:00] text you, so everything's good. I was like, no, [00:38:02] Dr. Taz: no, no, no, [00:38:03] Ericka: no. [00:38:03] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:38:04] Ericka: it's not [00:38:05] good. And you need to tell her what friendship looks like and that real friends [00:38:10] don't abandon. [00:38:10] Ericka: I mean, that's like something I was told, like, and you know. Yeah. [00:38:13] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:38:13] Ericka: You, you don't, [00:38:14] Dr. Taz: especially in [00:38:15] today's world, you, it's safety in numbers, you know? Yeah. [00:38:17] Ericka: And one person needs to stay. Just one person needs [00:38:20] to stay. But the girls came up with an excuse and now her daughter's like, oh no, they're all good. [00:38:24] Ericka: And [00:38:25] I'm like, that's a problem. We can't. Let her, we know we don't want, we don't want our kids to hurt, [00:38:30] but that's not all good. Mm-hmm. Friends don't just believe you. Right. There [00:38:35] had to have been one or two people to stay behind and that's what we have to teach our girls to look for. It's [00:38:40] not about, you don't need 20 friends, you don't need 15 friends. [00:38:42] Ericka: You don't even need six friends. It's actually research [00:38:45] shows that the magic number is two friends. [00:38:50] That it's good enough, it's good enough. Wow. Two, two close friends you can rely on, share [00:38:55] with. Um, open up to be real around, not be prote, you know, and it's, we also [00:39:00] want our daughters to know that they don't have to pretend to be something that they're not. [00:39:04] Ericka: Mm-hmm. And that's, [00:39:05] you know, I see a lot of that right there, there. Our daughters are being performative and we're being [00:39:10] performative. And it's exhausting. Right. [00:39:12] Dr. Taz: If you're listening to this and [00:39:15] thinking, I know something is often my body, but I don't know where to [00:39:20] start. This is for you. That's why I created the circle. [00:39:24] Dr. Taz: The circle [00:39:25] is my private community where I and my team focus on understanding your body [00:39:30] from hormones and stress to metabolic health and longevity with real life guidance that [00:39:35] you can actually use. This is about clarity and consistency and support [00:39:40] beyond the exam room and maybe outside of all the different appointments and [00:39:45] experts that you've been running around to. [00:39:47] Dr. Taz: You can try the circle with a one month trial [00:39:50] using the promo code podcast at Whole Plus do co back slash circle. [00:39:55] Again, that's whole plus to ho l [00:40:00] pls.co/circle. All right, let's jump back into the episode. Do you feel like. You know, I have a [00:40:05] son and a daughter. [00:40:05] Ericka: Mm-hmm. [00:40:06] Dr. Taz: And, you know, my daughter's the one who's been very vulnerable [00:40:10] to all of this. [00:40:10] Dr. Taz: My son has not, you know, what can I continue to model [00:40:15] for my daughter as now she moves into college. Mm-hmm. And she has to make a whole new set of friends. Yeah. And [00:40:20] navigate friend groups and stuff like that. You know, are there things that I should be preparing her for as she [00:40:25] enters a new chapter of her life? [00:40:26] Dr. Taz: Like what are things that as a mother I can do? [00:40:29] Ericka: Right. [00:40:30] Um, I think that she ha she or every kid entering like a new [00:40:35] part of their. Emerging adulthood have to know that you [00:40:40] may not find your people right away. Like that's, we're all so anxious. I know to find everyone right away, to have our [00:40:45] best friends right away. [00:40:46] Ericka: It could take months, it could take till your sophomore year, but, but you also have [00:40:50] to extend yourself to try people out, right? Mm-hmm. You can join a club [00:40:55] I a mock trial, you know, the young democrats, the young Republican, whatever. It's [00:40:59] Dr. Taz: right. [00:40:59] Ericka: You know, [00:41:00] and then test the people out, see if there's someone that resonates with you. [00:41:04] Ericka: See if there's [00:41:05] someone that you can develop a, a connection with. And it's not like right [00:41:10] away you're gonna realize there's gonna be fireworks and you're gonna realize this is your, like, best friend for life. But it could be [00:41:15] after, you know, several meetings or having, going out for coffee or having lunch with the person, [00:41:20] or it's, it's a process. [00:41:22] Ericka: And I think we need, you know, there's so much need [00:41:25] for immediate gratification. Yeah. For our kids and, and us where. [00:41:30] Finding true connection is a process. It's kinda like dating. [00:41:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:41:33] Ericka: Right. I mean, most of us wouldn't [00:41:35] marry someone we met a week ago. Right, right, right. And be like, he's the love of my life. [00:41:39] Ericka: Right. [00:41:40] I think the same things, I think that same thing goes for friendship [00:41:45] and, and keep an eye on how that person behaves, how they treat you, how they [00:41:50] treat others. You know, if you're, let's say, and this is, I, I think a big warning sign. If you're a group of three [00:41:55] and you know, when the third person leaves, the other friend starts [00:42:00] talking about them or saying nasty things about them. [00:42:02] Ericka: You have to think, well, when you're not there, that person saying the [00:42:05] same thing about you or doing the same thing to you, you know, if, are you okay with that? If you're okay with [00:42:10] it, fine. Some people are fine with it. But if you're not, if it makes you anxious. I remember reading in college and seeing [00:42:15] that happened. [00:42:15] Ericka: I thought, oh my God, like if I get up and leave, they're gonna talk about me too. And I didn't want that [00:42:20] anxiety. And I was like, okay, these aren't my people. [00:42:21] Dr. Taz: Yeah, right. I think that anxiety is probably one of the biggest, you [00:42:25] know, I'm, I'm thinking about people walking into situations kind of blind blindly. [00:42:29] Dr. Taz: You never [00:42:30] know who you're gonna meet or who you're gonna connect with. But that feeling, I think is the [00:42:35] barometer, right? Yep. I feel good when I'm here. I feel drained when I'm here. Yeah. I feel [00:42:40] happy when I'm here. I feel anxious when I hear, like I have, you know, some friends and I call [00:42:45] them soul friends. [00:42:45] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I could not have talked to them for three months, [00:42:50] but we'll go for a walk, we'll meet for coffee, you know, they're outta town. They may text or call me [00:42:55] and you instantly feel like completely filled back up. [00:42:58] Ericka: Yeah. [00:42:58] Dr. Taz: You know, like you have, [00:43:00] uh, an energy source that nothing else could give you. [00:43:03] Dr. Taz: Right. But then I've also been in those [00:43:05] situations where you go somewhere and you sit through a dinner and this, this happened a lot, you [00:43:10] know, in, in the years past, but like, you sit through a dinner and you're like, I don't feel good. [00:43:14] Ericka: [00:43:15] Yeah. [00:43:15] Dr. Taz: And I can't, and you sound irrational. Like, I remember going home and telling my husband, I don't, I don't [00:43:20] feel good. [00:43:20] Dr. Taz: Like, something's off. Like, and they're like, I think you're just blowing this outta proportion. Mm-hmm. [00:43:24] Dr. Taz: But [00:43:25] I think one of the things both of us want to really impress upon women is that that [00:43:30] intuitive knowledge. Oh [00:43:30] Ericka: yeah. [00:43:31] Dr. Taz: That like. Brain that's telling you that, please listen to [00:43:35] that. Yeah. 'cause if you don't feel good after a certain situation, there's a hundred [00:43:40] percent a reason Yeah. [00:43:41] Dr. Taz: For all of that. [00:43:42] Ericka: Yeah. [00:43:42] Dr. Taz: And the other thing I loved, and I wanna make sure everybody [00:43:45] really grasps that when you're walking into these situations, some of the behaviors that you should be on [00:43:50] guard for are, I'm gonna let you say them. Like what are some of the key behaviors in these [00:43:55] toxic groups that you should really be on alert so you can extricate yourself quickly. [00:43:59] Dr. Taz: You know, it's [00:44:00] almost like being on a bad date and you're like, okay, I gotta go. You know, but like, what are some of the situations where [00:44:05] maybe after a meeting or two, you know, to get outta there very quickly? [00:44:08] Ericka: Yeah. Well, I, I do, I, I [00:44:10] 100% believe that you feel it here and in your stomach. I could feel it in my mm-hmm. [00:44:14] Ericka: Chest and in my stomach when [00:44:15] something's just not right. And you do have to pay attention to that. But I think that. You have to give [00:44:20] someone a chance, right? I don't believe in just one impression. And then you're like, Ugh, this person like, [00:44:25] is terrible. I, I, you know, I, I've had an instance where, you know, I [00:44:30] was making a new mom friend. [00:44:31] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:44:31] Ericka: And I was like, oh, you know, she's not so, no, she's, this isn't, you know, [00:44:35] she's kind of funny. And, and the third, by the third coffee, [00:44:40] it came out, I was like, this isn't my person. Right. This isn't for me. And it was because there [00:44:45] wasn't, she had no empathy for other people. [00:44:50] And so you have to, you have to teach your daughter or son, but we're mostly like about [00:44:55] daughters here. [00:44:55] Ericka: Um, what is important to you? Right. [00:45:00] And for me, I was like, oh my God. Like that is, the story is terrible. [00:45:05] It's not funny. And it's, oh my goodness, if this happened to my child, I'd be so upset. Like, [00:45:10] and the, the way this person was talking about this other. Mom and daughter, and I thought, okay, [00:45:15] this isn't my person. [00:45:15] Ericka: You, for me, empathy is important. [00:45:17] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:18] Ericka: And [00:45:20] also, um, just understanding that people have different experiences in different lives and make different [00:45:25] choices, and that's okay. [00:45:26] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:45:27] Ericka: But that's, for me, for some people it's [00:45:30] like, I want someone who can be like lighthearted. It isn't talking about politics [00:45:35] in the right, heavy, the end of the world all the time. [00:45:36] Ericka: Right, right, right. Yeah. So it really does, you have to create [00:45:40] your own, um, what's important to you. And I think if we can help our [00:45:45] kids do that, like I tell, I even tell, tell my boys, I'm like, um, do you have fun with them? [00:45:50] Are they nice to you? Yeah. Do you, you know, do they make you laugh? Like those kinds of things [00:45:55] are important. [00:45:55] Ericka: I don't want them feeling they have to be someone that they're, they are [00:46:00] not. And you know, I have one kid who is type A and like kind of wild and the other one who's [00:46:05] kind of quiet and bookish and, and I, you know, the older one, he's like, not a [00:46:10] hard partier. And I'm like, it's fine. [00:46:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:12] Ericka: You know, you don't have to go to all the parties that your friends wanna go to. [00:46:14] Ericka: Right, right. [00:46:15] Where he was feeling all this pressure, even though he was not having fun and it wasn't his thing. Yeah. It wasn't [00:46:20] his thing. And I think our kids can feel this pressure, but we have to also tell them, oh, it's totally fine. [00:46:25] Like, there are lots of people who don't like to do that. [00:46:27] Dr. Taz: So really modeling those behaviors, [00:46:29] Ericka: modeling, but [00:46:30] also asking them how they feel and validating how they feel. [00:46:33] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:46:34] Ericka: And [00:46:35] sometimes I find with parents, especially as our kids get older, we have this idea of who they should be and [00:46:40] what, what fun is. And then we try to push them toward that. [00:46:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:43] Ericka: Like the moms who want their kids to be in the [00:46:45] popular group. Right. Or with the certain girls or whatever. And so we are kind of pushing them in [00:46:50] this direction. [00:46:50] Ericka: 'cause we think that means success. That means they're gonna be happy. And that's not true [00:46:55] for every kid. And so we have to pay attention to who our kids are, who, what our family [00:47:00] values are, and, and help instill that in our kids. [00:47:03] Dr. Taz: Definitely. And I would, and I would add like [00:47:05] that community group impacts the health of the family. [00:47:07] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Right. Because, you know, if the [00:47:10] mom's having an issue, if the child's having an issue, then the entire family dynamic can be disrupted. Mm-hmm. And, [00:47:15] and things like vacations can be not fun because somebody's always talking about somebody [00:47:20] else or worried about Oh yeah. Somebody else's. I mean, all of that. [00:47:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So it definitely comes in, you know, one of the things we [00:47:25] didn't touch upon, and I think this has happened to me as well, is that we can have [00:47:30] friends at a stage of our life. [00:47:31] Ericka: Mm-hmm. [00:47:32] Dr. Taz: But then because people grow and change mm-hmm. And [00:47:35] evolve into different beings sometimes. That turns into it wasn't, but [00:47:40] it turns into a toxic friendship. [00:47:42] Ericka: Oh yeah. [00:47:42] Dr. Taz: How do we navigate that situation? [00:47:44] Ericka: So I think we [00:47:45] have to understand that sometimes we meet people at a certain point in our lives, and that's what we needed at that [00:47:50] point. Right. Especially if you're a new mom and you're tired and you're drained and you want people to relate to that. [00:47:54] Dr. Taz: [00:47:55] Mm-hmm. [00:47:55] Ericka: But then as your kids get older, you may have different needs, you may have different points of [00:48:00] connection. [00:48:00] Ericka: And I think that, I really want women to know that just because their [00:48:05] kids are friends with another child doesn't mean you have to be best friends with that. Mom [00:48:10] and I, women run into a lot of trouble when they create all of their friendships based on who [00:48:15] their kid plays with. And we've all done it. [00:48:18] Ericka: Yeah. We've all, we've all done it. [00:48:20] And, um. So I think that we have to understand that you have to have your own independent point [00:48:25] of connection and not reliant on like who your kid plays with. Because that's, I've seen so many [00:48:30] women who are just devastated. 'cause when the girls start fighting or they're not friends, right? [00:48:34] Ericka: And all of a [00:48:35] sudden this mom's on the outs and that one's talking about her to other moms. Right. It's based on the kid [00:48:40] drama. Right. And um, you know, and I, I remember sitting with two moms who were going through this and [00:48:45] um, and the reason that the drama started was so, it was so crazy to me. [00:48:50] But I was just thinking like, you can't, you can't put all your [00:48:55] eggs in one basket. [00:48:55] Ericka: You can't rely just on these connections from [00:49:00] school. Like, I, like I mm-hmm. I said, we have work friends, we can make connections at work. Having coffee with your [00:49:05] coworker builds connection. [00:49:06] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:49:07] Ericka: Right. And that's someone that you can probably talk about if they don't have [00:49:10] kids or they do kids, maybe you don't have to talk about like what. [00:49:13] Ericka: College, your kid's going to or [00:49:15] what? Like how your kid's doing on the soccer team or whatever. We need different [00:49:20] points of connection at different points in our lives and not [00:49:25] reliant on this one group forever. It's just not, [00:49:30] it's [00:49:30] Dr. Taz: just not realistic. It's [00:49:31] Ericka: not realistic. [00:49:31] Dr. Taz: I think that's the biggest message, and I wish I had jumped into that [00:49:35] earlier, is really, you know, diversifying our friend groups. [00:49:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. But I think I too was suffering from like, oh [00:49:39] Ericka: yeah. [00:49:40] [00:49:40] Dr. Taz: Fatigue and exhaustion and also thinking in this very type A [00:49:45] mentality that it's all or nothing. Like either we're doing the big event, doing the big dinner, and I'm having [00:49:50] people over and I'm making 20 dishes and everything's beautiful, or I'm doing nothing. [00:49:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah. You know, and I think that [00:49:55] kind of thinking is a fallacy when it comes to relationships and friendships for sure. And I think it get, can get you [00:50:00] stuck, you know, in certain, certain patterns. So I can, I can look back and [00:50:05] see myself doing that. Now. You've written a book. Tell us about your book, exploring this, what we [00:50:10] can find in your book and you know, what you want people to walk away with. [00:50:13] Ericka: Yeah. Well, so I wrote [00:50:15] this book, um, how to Have a Kid In the Life, A Survival Guide, because it addressed all the things that. [00:50:20] I needed and I didn't find when I was a new mom and what I found, [00:50:25] there's certain things that, you know, you, when you, so when you get pregnant, all of your friends are like, oh, [00:50:30] you need this stuff. [00:50:30] Ericka: We're gonna go throw you a shower. Right. There's all this like, it's all about these like [00:50:35] things that they think you need for take care of a baby. Yeah. Or Or new motherhood. Yeah. But [00:50:40] there are all these emotional things that we go through. And so I found new motherhood really [00:50:45] hard. You know, I was a full-time working mom. [00:50:47] Ericka: Oh yeah. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed. [00:50:50] And I remember thinking like, how do people keep doing this? Right? How do people have five kids? This is insane. I'm going crazy. [00:50:55] And so I started doing research and started talking to women across the country about their [00:51:00] experiences. And so the book is filled with everything women told me. [00:51:03] Ericka: Hundreds of women, what they told me [00:51:05] that they struggled with the most, what they wish they could change and how. To fix it. [00:51:10] [00:51:10] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:51:10] Ericka: Right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, you, we have things, there's a whole chapter on what happens to your career. A [00:51:15] lot of people think that maternity leave keeps them safe. [00:51:17] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:51:18] Ericka: That is not necessarily true. [00:51:19] Dr. Taz: [00:51:20] Mm. [00:51:20] Ericka: There are [00:51:20] Dr. Taz: meaning, [00:51:21] Ericka: meaning you can be laid off or fired on maternity leave. [00:51:25] Right. And so I think that most women I talk to, they kind of, they feel like they have this job security [00:51:30] when they're, you're pregnant 'cause you're protected. Yeah. That's not necessarily the case. Yeah. I go talk to legal experts [00:51:35] about how you can safeguard yourself or what to do if this happens to you, or what the warning signs are if you're being [00:51:40] pushed out after you have kids. [00:51:41] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:51:41] Ericka: Um, I talk about what happens to your romantic [00:51:45] relationships. Right. People think that, you know, when you have kids. It's, you are never gonna be more in [00:51:50] love with your spouse. Right. Or your partner. And, and it's just kind of like you might hate them more than you ever thought [00:51:55] possible when you have a, a new baby. [00:51:56] Ericka: Mm-hmm. What happens to your body image? Um, [00:52:00] I, there's a chapter on, um, women and or mothers and [00:52:05] alcohol and addiction. Mm-hmm. And that's something that no one talks about. Talked about. Yeah. But it, it's, it [00:52:10] was, when I wrote the book, A growing problem. Like, uh, a lot of facilities are seeing uptick in [00:52:15] new moms needing substance abuse counseling. [00:52:18] Ericka: Um. And it's [00:52:19] Dr. Taz: [00:52:20] just the stress and the anxiety and looking for an outlet. Yeah. All of this. [00:52:23] Ericka: Yeah. And I think the [00:52:25] bottom line was that I found that, you know, if women wanna build strong, happy lives, but they [00:52:30] can't do that if they neglect their self and their needs. Mm. And that is the ultimate message in the [00:52:35] book. [00:52:35] Ericka: And I even have like, you know, once a year to do a check-in with yourself and have a series of questions you should [00:52:40] ask yourself to know, know if you're like on the right track to keep yourself emotionally healthy. Yeah. And emotionally grounded. [00:52:45] And I feel like it's really important because the world tells us that when we're [00:52:50] mothers, it's not about us at all. [00:52:52] Ericka: Right? It's all about, it's about taking care of your baby and [00:52:55] everyone else in your life. But I, I found that women were really struggling trying to keep [00:53:00] up with that model of how to be a, a, an adult woman with children. [00:53:05] So, um. Yeah. I wanted to provide this for, so if your friends aren't [00:53:10] gonna tell you all the hard stuff about parenting Yeah. [00:53:12] Ericka: I was like, you can give this at their baby shower and [00:53:15] it's not you, you know? [00:53:15] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:53:16] Ericka: But it's, it's also, there's a lot of positives. It's like, oh, here's how to work through it. You [00:53:20] know? I even have a section on, you know, so many women told me about once the biggest [00:53:25] arguments that they had with their partner was where to spend the holidays. [00:53:29] Ericka: Right. We had [00:53:30] kids [00:53:30] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:53:30] Ericka: How to discipline and sleepovers. [00:53:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:53:33] Ericka: And so I came with a, a list of [00:53:35] questions that they, women had told me they wished they had talked about before they had kids. [00:53:38] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:53:38] Ericka: And these are just discussions you can [00:53:40] have, because sometimes you're blindsided, but you're like, you know, I, you don't spank, I believe in spank or vice [00:53:45] versa. [00:53:45] Ericka: Or you don't believe in, you know, punish her, or you wanna spend every Christmas with your mother because Christmas is special [00:53:50] for her. [00:53:50] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:53:50] Ericka: All of these things. [00:53:53] Dr. Taz: Are things to navigate [00:53:53] Ericka: are are things to navigate. [00:53:55] And they're not impossible hurdles, they just have to be addressed. [00:53:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:53:58] Ericka: And that's why I wrote it and I, you [00:54:00] know, I love talking to women about their lives and what's going on with them because, you know, [00:54:05] it's, we kind of, we run the world, but sometimes we forget to check in on [00:54:10] ourselves. [00:54:10] Dr. Taz: I wish almost there was like. An objective accountability team for [00:54:15] every new mom. [00:54:15] Ericka: Hmm. [00:54:16] Dr. Taz: You know what I mean? Like you, I don't know who would be on that team, but maybe it's a family [00:54:20] member, it's a professional of some kind. [00:54:22] Ericka: Mm-hmm. [00:54:22] Dr. Taz: And they're almost like [00:54:25] picking at you with like, how are you doing? Yeah. You know, like, where are you and where have you [00:54:30] sacrificed maybe a little bit too much mm-hmm. [00:54:31] Dr. Taz: And compromise too much and all the different scenarios that you're in as [00:54:35] a mom, you know? But, well, [00:54:36] Ericka: in some countries that is some, that's a part of a benefit [00:54:40] for new mothers. They get a, a, a mom group of different mothers mm-hmm. [00:54:45] Come together. And whether it's once a week or every other week where they can point of connection [00:54:50] and there's someone, a facilitator checking in. [00:54:52] Ericka: Now we don't do that. We don't, no. We don't even have [00:54:55] paid maternity leave. [00:54:56] Dr. Taz: Right, right. [00:54:57] Ericka: But I think that you're right. I wish there was [00:55:00] this. Built in support and you know, we have to find it. [00:55:05] We have to find our village. Yeah. But we also have to be picky about who's in that village, who enters, who [00:55:10] enters [00:55:10] Dr. Taz: that village. [00:55:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. And don't make decisions out of fatigue or insecurity [00:55:15] or, you know, [00:55:16] Ericka: well, you're gonna make those decisions out of fatigue and insecurity at first. [00:55:19] Dr. Taz: Yeah. But [00:55:20] then be aware of when to get out. [00:55:21] Ericka: Yeah. Be aware of the exit. Be aware of how you feel, how the, [00:55:25] the, those friends treat other people. Do they have the same morals and values that [00:55:30] you want for your family and for yourself. [00:55:32] Ericka: Like, those aren't silly questions. That's real, [00:55:35] you know? [00:55:35] Dr. Taz: And then the exit plan, I'm curious what you'll, what you have to say here. Is that cold Turkey we're [00:55:40] done? Or is that. A conversation? Or is that, you know, [00:55:44] Ericka: now it [00:55:45] depends on the scenario because there's so many different scenarios. I like the Quiet exit where you just kind of like, [00:55:50] don't hang out as often and you can come up with the excuse, just withdraw. [00:55:53] Ericka: Yeah. We withdraw a little bit. Like, oh, I'm so busy, or [00:55:55] work ramped up, or I have to take care of my mother-in-law, whatever it is. Yeah. The quiet exit is like a [00:56:00] safer exit, but it could be a situation, and I've had this where [00:56:05] the, sometimes the behavior was so egregious that I thought, I'm gonna say something. [00:56:09] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:56:09] Ericka: [00:56:10] And uh, and I haven't regretted it. [00:56:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:56:12] Ericka: And, and I moved on and [00:56:15] I think that, again, there's no. No one's gonna [00:56:20] change if there's no consequence for the behavior. [00:56:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:56:22] Ericka: And I think that's what's, that's a really [00:56:25] important step in helping reduce the level of toxicity or mingle [00:56:30] behavior in our culture. [00:56:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:56:31] Ericka: Um, and you may not change that person, but you can change your [00:56:35] circumstance and you can find different friends and you can find different support. And that goes for adult women, and it goes for girls, it [00:56:40] goes for college students. Mm. All through your life. You can find like-minded [00:56:45] people. You just have to be willing. [00:56:47] Ericka: You [00:56:47] Dr. Taz: have to, [00:56:47] Ericka: to take the step. [00:56:49] Dr. Taz: Well, I wish I [00:56:50] had this book when I was going through the throes of, of new motherhood and navigating [00:56:55] everything with my daughter and all the things. I have a lot of wisdom now. Yeah. But I almost feel like, you know, I [00:57:00] wish I had this from the get go. So, [00:57:01] Ericka: and that's, and sharing it. [00:57:02] Ericka: Yeah. That's like the most important thing. That's what I, I love having these [00:57:05] conversations because if we don't talk about them, people really do feel that they're alone. [00:57:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:57:09] Ericka: They feel like they're [00:57:10] struggling with this and no one's gonna get them [00:57:12] Dr. Taz: very much. And you know what, and I, and I already said this, [00:57:15] but there were many days that I just. [00:57:16] Dr. Taz: I thought it was me. I thought I was crazy. [00:57:18] Ericka: Mm-hmm. [00:57:19] Dr. Taz: I thought I was not good [00:57:20] enough. Exactly. I mean, I, all those negative thoughts right? From wherever they're coming from, [00:57:25] I always blame myself before I was like, no, this is ridiculous. You know? [00:57:30] So, um, so I hope this book helps. Mm-hmm. Women everywhere at whatever stage of motherhood they're in [00:57:35] and whatever groups they're in. [00:57:36] Dr. Taz: I think it's definitely a need, and I think it's gonna be my new baby shower [00:57:40] gift for everybody. How's that? That's amazing. I love that. Well, final question before we [00:57:45] let you go. Actually, two questions. Where can we find your book? Where can people find you if they wanna reach out to you? Yep. [00:57:50] And then what makes you whole? [00:57:52] Ericka: Uh, yeah, we can find the book on Amazon, [00:57:55] Barnes and Noble, pretty much wherever books are sold. Um, and then you can reach out [00:58:00] to me on Instagram, um, LinkedIn, Facebook. I actually do [00:58:05] respond. Yay. Especially if a mom has a question about something that they're going through. [00:58:10] Um, I've even come to like mom groups, like, they'll be like, can you come and talk to a mom group? [00:58:14] Ericka: But if I can get [00:58:15] there, [00:58:15] Dr. Taz: yeah, [00:58:15] Ericka: I can do it. Or I can zoom, which is now, I would do so much of everything these days, [00:58:20] um, because I really feel like conversations are the best way to cut, to heal what [00:58:25] women are going through. And honest, I'm super honest. So be prepared for [00:58:29] Dr. Taz: Mm, [00:58:29] Ericka: love it. [00:58:30] Total honesty. And what keeps me whole, you know, at different points in my life, it was [00:58:35] different things. [00:58:35] Ericka: In my twenties, it was my career. I thought, oh, this is, this is who I am. [00:58:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:58:39] Ericka: Right. [00:58:40] And then, um, once I had a family, um, I. [00:58:45] I think it's like you, you, you do, you want your kids to be happy. Yeah. They always [00:58:50] say You're only as happy as your unhappiest child. Yeah. So when my kids are doing [00:58:55] well and they are happy, that helps completely. [00:58:58] Ericka: But [00:59:00] I have a pie chart of completion. There's my kids, there's my romantic relationship with my [00:59:05] spouse. Mm-hmm. And then there's things that I do that are just for me. And [00:59:10] for me, my career is just for me because I crafted a career that I love. Mm-hmm. So when that pie chart [00:59:15] is, when those things are each doing well, I feel complete. [00:59:19] Ericka: But in real life. [00:59:20] There, something's always struggling a little bit. Yeah, [00:59:23] Dr. Taz: of course. [00:59:23] Ericka: Something's always like nature, nature. Something's [00:59:25] always struggling a little bit, but it's me taking a holistic look at my world and am I working hard [00:59:30] to make all of those sections be the best that they can be? That really does complete me. [00:59:33] Ericka: It's work. [00:59:34] Dr. Taz: I love [00:59:35] that. I love that you like, took a little spin on the word whole plus and basically [00:59:40] you approach your identities and roles holistically. [00:59:43] Ericka: Yeah. [00:59:44] Dr. Taz: I love that. [00:59:45] And that makes you whole, I think. I love that explanation. Well, thank you so much for your time today. [00:59:50] This has been so incredibly helpful. [00:59:52] Dr. Taz: I hope people will take your advice and [00:59:55] all of the research that you've done and be able to move forward in a, in a really healthy way. So thank you. That [01:00:00] community body's important. Our community health is important. It plays into the numbers that we see in [01:00:05] our exam room, so it's all connected and [01:00:06] Ericka: you're not alone [01:00:07] Dr. Taz: and you're definitely not alone. [01:00:08] Dr. Taz: So for everybody [01:00:10] watching and listening to this episode, thank you again. We post new episodes every week, so don't forget [01:00:15] to subscribe. Before you go, take a second to reflect on what stood out for you [01:00:20] today. Then if you can leave a quick review wherever you're listening, it [01:00:25] really helps other people discover Whole Plus and start their own healing journey. [01:00:29] Dr. Taz: And [01:00:30] don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Dr. TAs md. I love hearing how these [01:00:35] episodes are supporting you.