Latest / MaxValue Podcast / Building Bridges, Not Just Businesses Ft. Jarrod and Wayne (CONVO)

Transcript

Building Bridges, Not Just Businesses Ft. Jarrod and Wayne (CONVO) · MaxValue Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Communication is the backbone of any business.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: But we want to make money by generating impact.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Without impact, what even is the point?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: That became months of complex architecture and planning and development.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it would have been nice to have some investors come in, but we knew the moment investors came in, it would radically alter the way we wanted to do things.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: There was no design consideration, there was no thought of an interpreter as a consumer, as a deaf person as a consumer, or even the hearing person that receives it all as a consumer.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is the legacy that you guys want on both the innovation behind it, the creativity behind it?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Max Value, the show for business owners and their trusted advisors who are on a mission to maximize their value with business valuation, exit planning, strategy, and maybe even rethinking the nature of communication.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Ben Town, and today we have a first.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not just one, but two guests, Jared Musano and Wade Betts Jr.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Jared is a successful business person with a real estate background and is the co-founder and current chairperson of Convo Communications.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wayne is also a co-founder of Convo Communications and is an Emmy nominated filmmaker, most recently lauded for his producer credit on the film Deaf President Now.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out on Apple.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, it's really great.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do check it out for real.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Both of our guests happen to be Deaf.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually have four guests today because we are also joined by sign language interpreters Ralph Blank and Bobby Loffler.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Both are great guys.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when you hear the voice of Jared or uh or of Wayne, it'll be either Ralph or Bobby talking.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, those guys are helping me uh facilitate to translate uh back to uh Jared and Wayne.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm super glad that this uh video is going to be on YouTube as a uh video podcast as well as an audio one.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's a lot of uh lot of intro there.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um but let's get into it, guys.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you run Convo Communications, uh, which in the in the deaf and hard of hearing community, basically anybody who's in an English-speaking country knows about you guys.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, it's it's a it's a very well-known, high-profile company, and actually, you know, a few uh you know hearing people may have heard of you as well.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit, in your own words, about what Convo does and why why I think this is such a cool uh uh interview?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wants to go.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, thank you, Ben, for having us here.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Really delighted to be on this podcast.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um first of all, when it comes to Convo, I mean, it's an amazing company.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was when from its establishment, it was deaf-led, deaf-owned.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means in this industry, um, frankly, in this industry, it's uh largely owned by venture capitalists and uh who are interested in the bottom line, finance, money, we're here about the impact.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, since we were founded, um, we thought that there would be no better way of providing services to deaf people than being deaf ourselves.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: We understand what people are missing out on, we understand where the gaps are, we understand the conversations that we are missing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so when Wayne and I met, we come from very different backgrounds, but we have the commonality of both being deaf.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there are many uh gaps in communication that we've experienced throughout our lives.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Growing up into early adulthood when we did meet, we understood one another.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that uh led to us wanting to set the example for the world, really, as to how to address the problem of those gaps in access and in conversation.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so Convo was founded.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: We started very small, and in those days we had no idea where we would go.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: We had enough passion, I think, to feed that growth.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: But today we're 700 employees strong, we're present in five countries, and we operate in 16 different time zones.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: We've supported 20 million conversations since uh the founding.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll with that, I'll turn it over to the founder.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Ben, it's a thrill to be here.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if I had to explain what it is we do at Convo, um it really basically is this.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: We started as a video relay service.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and in the United States, there is a federal program that is uh run by the FCC that allows for telephony conversations.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: But how do deaf people even join in on telephony?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so they established a program under the telecommunications relay service and it's and it's funded.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they open the competition to a number of different businesses, and they have interpreters and technological platforms, video platforms that you can access through an application on your smartphone or through hardware that's you know docked on your TV.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it allows deaf people the same functionality as a phone.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: I dial a phone number, I pull up an interpreter, and it allows me to call anyone in the world that has a phone number.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was the concept behind the initial founding of Convo.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: We were one of uh a number of video relay service providers.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And as Jared said, back in the day, um, you know, the technology, the infrastructure, the operations of scaling interpreters was really interesting.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Back then, a lot of companies had venture capitalists, had private equity firms, or had backgrounds with technology or interpreting agencies, and then became into what they were as video service, video relay service providers.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was in the industry from day one and uh with a different company, and it was a text-based communication, you know, it was text relay, and it wasn't natural because it's not the first language of a lot of deaf people.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so we eventually made our way into video relay service, which was a much more natural language for us.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And in the beginning, it was really interesting to see how awkward uh people were on it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so wait, how does this work?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Through a video platform?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And in my experience, I saw a lot of decisions being made that made sense from a business perspective, from a fiscal perspective, from a revenue generating perspective, but there was no design consideration, there was no thought of an interpreter as a consumer, as the deaf person as a consumer, or even the hearing person that receives the call as a consumer.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: None of those individuals were centered.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so we thought, what if we were to take ownership, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: To allow deaf people to own, you know, the conversation.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that became central to the organization, right?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: We became user-centric, we became more intuitive, more natural, and that's eventually what led us to be the convo we are today.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Quick story.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember working in the real estate business, and um this was 99, 98.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was excited.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was my first job getting out of college.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was ready to work, and uh I went to work for my father, who owns a real estate business property management in New York City.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got started to work.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Here was an opportunity, and I'm I'm really assertive and I wanted to get going.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I immediately came to realize that most of the business was managed over the phone.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Collecting rent happened over the phone, uh, repair orders over the phone, legal matters addressed over the phone.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Everything took place over the phone.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what value did I contribute as a deaf person?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: He was his demeaning.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be able to contribute.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be able to support the business and really contribute and bring value.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I looked into uh bringing in interpreters and found that they were very expensive, practically the equivalent of my own salary.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so naturally, we weren't gonna hire someone uh to be able to interpret, and so I'd be at a loss.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: When VRS came up on the scene, it was very fragmented, it was uh expensive.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is, the interpreting industry, it's based on a very stayed and antiquated model.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's about 50 to 75 years old, and it stayed the same, even though times have changed, the economy has changed, technology has shifted, but the industry has not.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so Wayne and I, and our aspiration with Convo was to seek how to disrupt the industry, and to do that, we had to be bold, and in being bold, we had to be innovative, we had to be willing to take chances to perhaps make things uncomfortable for everyone, to make people uncomfortable.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: But we thought it was worthwhile.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we sought to establish a mindset, a culture, first of all, so that people understood the value that each person brings, that each person contributes as deaf people to society, to be productive and not just be set on the back burner.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was our value proposition that we established from day one.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And as people joined the company, they came to understand our value proposition and nurture the culture that we built here.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I almost didn't want to interject with anything that I'm I need to say, just because you guys could go on for an hour, and I mean that in the best way possible, and just tell the story.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that would be that would make great content all of its own.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one thing I do want to uh uh point out here, based on I think something that uh Wayne you had said, most hearing folks do not understand, and I didn't until recently, understand that written language is so different from spoken language and from American Sign Language.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it truly is a foreign language, a written English is a foreign language to a uh an ASL primary language person.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that that that's one thing to uh to definitely get our heads around as as uh you know the other part of the the population.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think Jared, what you were talking about, yeah, communication is the backbone of any business, and there are multiple uh uh vectors for that usually, and you're so much more restricted if if you don't have the ability to just pick up the phone.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it's a teletype service.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was the uh the the previous technology, if you can even call it a technology, where you had to uh uh it came out as a script, essentially, or as as a narrative text, uh, and that was painful at best.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh I I think that was even before before my time in business, but in any case, thank you for that.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um you guys are mission-driven people and mission-driven company.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, over time has the exigencies of business you know, frayed at the mission, made it evolve, made it change, uh, anything like that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly, certainly.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think, you know, in the beginning, you know, we it was easy to see us as a VRS company, you know, we were we had our competitors and what we did differently um, you know, was easy to see.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: But as we scaled, new challenges arose because we had to, you know, foster connection, regardless of where they were happening in the world.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Human connection with one person being deaf and one person being hearing should happen anywhere.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that idea in and of itself is huge.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we have a finite amount of interpreters.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have an interpreter pool that is just plentiful, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's funding involved.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Who pays for it?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's a number of different challenges that come into this.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: But for the journey that Jared and I were on with the company, with our people, as long as we remained true to what our point of view was, to what our center was, to have this idea of being able to access a conversation anywhere, we had to start with the deaf individual.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wherever they went, we needed to be able to build connections.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's the most sustainable way to look at it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Using the same technology, you know, the same practices that we used in video relay service, which was a great model because it already centered the deaf person, but we had to look at different outside funders, right?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, the FCC was just supporting the telephony peats.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: But what other opportunities are out there that would be willing to support some different areas?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: What other countries globally could we look at to get a better understanding as to what we could do with the technology, how we could streamline operations and really get out there more and more?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, it is a constant challenge.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: We are constantly trying to figure out every step we take.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: But as long as we keep deaf people centered, we'll be good.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think the important thing uh for our business was we were always thinking about how to do it sustainably.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, every company uh has good years, bad years, financially speaking.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we wanted to envision a place where the cost of interpreting the cost of technology would be viewed more as akin to a utility bill for a company, that it wasn't such a massive spike in costs.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Companies want to control for costs on a monthly basis, and typically, you know, they put things like that in the budget.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't, it becomes an outlier expense.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so that has been our observation.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: When a company does well, when it comes to uh accessibility, communications, they're ripe for being cut.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And who loses?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: The deaf individual.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we want uh, you know, the we know that the more people are able to engage globally, the more people would be able to offer.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wayne is a is a filmmaker, he's Emmy nominated.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's just one example of what's possible.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Think of all the many deaf people around the world who lose out on those opportunities because they don't have the opportunity to meet or converse with people who could lead them into those opportunities or the, if you will, the promised land.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're always thinking on a daily basis on how to refine uh the way to do this, uh to uh become the experts in conversations within our own company, which was an interesting experience.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Initially, we're all deaf people, all the founders were deaf, and we forgot how to have conversations with hearing people like yourself.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so as we expanded internally, we brought in external talent.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And wow, uh, some of the talent out there being hearing people, not deaf, but uh their learning curve to understand the business, the culture, the people, how to communicate, communication norms, cultural norms would take some of them six months, a good six months to really be able to get into the work.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Those are some of the challenges that we uh experienced.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so Wayne and I often said if we can solve that problem here, we can solve that problem globally.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that is one of the keys that I believe has led to Convo's success.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was everything that we've experienced through that period.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a really good point.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: That there's of course there have whenever there's a culture integration, there's always learning that has to be done on both sides.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you don't really bridge the gap.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you guys are, as you said, a deaf-led and deaf-founded company.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, your current CEO, uh, Amanda Montgomery is deaf as well.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um now, what is that what does that do?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Give us hearing people a an insight into what it's like with day-to-day operations where you have the mix of you know of hearing and deaf people.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: All right, uh, let me lay some of the groundwork as to what the company looks like because there's uh you know a number of components.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have our leadership team, we have our operations team, we have our uh product RD, our technological prep uh platform team, engineering, DevOps, all of them.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then in each country, you have your own community outreach team.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh each team is based locally in each country.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Each country also has their own set of interpreters.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: They have a team that is supporting uh that team of interpreters to make sure that they can operationally have the tools they need to be able to provide the interpreting services.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have our finance team, marketing, product design.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so just imagine all of those components as to what it takes to run the business on the day-to-day.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And we often say that we are a vertically integrated company, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: From your experience to interacting with our application, you know, and all of the layers that go within that are all in one company.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now you talk about people that come from a variety of cultures, and it's not just hearing in depth.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's multiple layers to that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about different countries, different languages.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Here in America, we use ASL, American Sign Language.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: In Australia, they use what's called Auslan.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously, Commonwealth countries, so we have spoken English being shared, but obviously the sign languages are completely different.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: It took myself, Jared and myself years to finally begin to be able to sign in Ausland, in British Sign Language.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's those nuances, those layers.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: We work with quotas, children of deaf adults who understand, who grew up in the culture, who understand the context, work hand in hand with us as professional interpreters, as leaders, as a in a variety of roles in the company.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Add to that folks who are outside of the community, who are new to the community, but have a wealth of experience in a number of different industries that they're bringing to the table.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we find a way to make those connections by having a common goal.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I noticed, especially in the beginning, we were very US-centric in how we frame things.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it was it was easy, it was simple.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have things that generally we could depend on, you know, some of the iconic things that are in America in in relation to business.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And now, as we started to go global, you know, some of the things that are common sense here are not shared in a perspective in some of the other countries we work in.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the idea of the North Star, for example, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: That is a very northern hemisphere idea, like being able to look up in the sky and see a North Star.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Australia will look at me and say, Well, what are you talking about?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have a North Star.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so having to take in a multitude of perspectives is important.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the when from the company perspective, when you shut yourself off from a creativity pool and a tally pool, you you do hobble yourself.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you know you you don't exp expose yourself to that, you know, uh different thinking, different perspective of the world, uh, then you you aren't getting quite as rich of an experience such that you can come up with even more and better creative ideas on how to uh attack a problem or I even identify a problem that nobody ever really knew existed.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh frankly, I never knew that this problem existed that Convo directly addresses.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I just it just never crossed my mind one way or the other.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, just to be perfectly, you know, perfectly frank, it's kind of the you know, Mr.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Average out there.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I'm you know, that that's one of the things that attracted me to, you know, to Convo and to you guys is it's a really great thing that helps people across the the world.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um when one one thing.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, well, one thing when when you're talking about solving a problem, uh before I before I forget uh and lose track of it, um sometimes you have to be open to trying new things, you have to be willing to experiment, to test things out, find the right business partner, someone who can work with you.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, we just uh contracted with the MTA and the Port Authority, as well as uh uh well, yeah, the Port Authority and the MTA.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we did talk about testing out uh QR code access in their subways and airports so that any deaf person.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Who needed to get directions or other resources would be able to, with a click away, scan a code in a way that is simple, fast to have a conversation.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a killer when you have to wait too long.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And a minute can be a very long time when you're just standing there staring someone in the face, waiting for an interpreter to have a conversation.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: It gets awkward, it doesn't feel natural.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So at Convo, we thought very hard about the experience that supports the natural uh feel of a conversation.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Human connection is important.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: The way we connect is important.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: When you raise your eyebrows and lift your hand to get someone's attention, you want to interact right away.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't necessarily work that way when you have a deaf hearing engagement.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've worked very hard to shorten the time that you've had to wait.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have interpreters available 24-7.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: We have a constant cue.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: We understand the need to balance that load in various times throughout the day.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh there are a variety of different things that we have done to work towards breaking through the communication and conversation barrier that exists.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: We work very hard.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I guess that's really the point that I want to drive at in following up on what you just said.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say, Ben, uh you know, kind of as you mentioned, there's a lot of people out there that just don't know.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: They they don't know, and I completely understand that.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're such a low-incidence population, we are a minority group.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so naturally, there isn't much exposure out there.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm so happy to see that film and media is having an increased awareness.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Deaf President Now documentary is an example of that on Apple TV.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it's great because it's just furthering the exposure.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this conversation, having us here, does so much for our community.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so, as Jared said, you know, we completely understand and accept the fact that we are a low incidence population and we're trying to solve a huge problem.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And as we get volume, it's easier to scale, right?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Trying to solve a global problem with just a few resources, cost becomes such a huge factor.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why being innovative, as Jared has mentioned, is so key to the company.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of interpreting agencies, a lot of other providers out there that do work on a global scale.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, companies like LanguageLine, um, as an example, huge company.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all of those company providers, you know, represent a billion-dollar industry.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen that industry sort of balloon and grow.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: But my experience as a deaf person has quite frankly sucked.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: In the real world, I don't have much access.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: If I go to a store, it's more likely that I'm not going to be able to have a tool to access communication.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have to pull out a pen and paper and write back and forth.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, what does that say?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: If this is a billion-dollar industry and I still have the same level of access as I did 30 years ago, where's that money going?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, Jared and I very much wanted to say, how do we make this scalable?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: The QR code was an example of that, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a material, it's a printed material.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a device, it's not a tablet that we have to provide to you because that's how the industry does look at it, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we're building a bridge between these two worlds.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And Jared and I have bucked at that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're not building a bridge.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to figure out how I can connect with anyone such as yourself, and how do I connect with you?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Just figuring that out and making sure that it's got an efficient cost.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So if I can give you a sticker that has a QR code on it and you can put it anywhere, and I, as a deaf person, can use my personal device.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now that idea is much more sustainable, much more possible.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the reason uh they think it's building a bridge, or they want to they they want to charge you to train you, they want to charge you for the devices, they want to charge you for the interpreters, and that's why it comes to the tune of billions of dollars in this industry.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the deaf person gets minimal service, minimal access because nobody really wants to talk to them because they know there's a cost involved.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so Wayne and I, when Conva was started, it was tough.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it would have been nice to have some investors come in, but we knew the moment investors came in, it would radically alter the way we wanted to do things because they're driven by the bottom line, which I get it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Business people need to make money, but we want to make money by generating impact.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Without impact, what even is the point?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: We just become another one of them, and so we had to fight, we had to fight through 16 years of bootstrapping this company, and it wasn't easy.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've had a few scares uh along the way, but um we are resilient, we got tough, we figured out ways to make it, and uh the people here in this company have been a major part of that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've rallied and gone through difficult times, which has taken us to where we are now.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So after 16 years, when I ponder how far we've come, realizing it's because no one else out there really understands that in the climate of this business, how we can be best supported.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a tough journey, but here we are.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, I want to take a second here to share something about who we are and why we make this show.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably here because either you or a client of yours is thinking about buying or selling a business, bringing in investment, or planning an eventual exit.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that is why we call this show Max Value.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: We provide you with information and insights about how to maximize the value of your business.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Our team at Town Advisory guides business owners through the crucial, often once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to exit their business.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: We use our trademarked exit builder program to help business owners prepare early, protect the value they've built, and obtain maximum value through an exit.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the secret is our clients define what value means to them.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Taking the right steps now can make all the difference in creating a successful outcome for yourself, your family, and your work team.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you think you're ready for the next step in understanding and increasing the value of your business, make a comment, send me a message on LinkedIn, or send me an email.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: All those links are in the show notes.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the that metaphor of a bridge is real is really telling.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Building a bridge really focuses on the otherness, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, and I don't want to be too fluffy about this whole thing, but hey, these these people over here are different from us people over here, and we need a bridge to to in any way access these people and their own world.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, this is our world altogether.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we just have there is a you know, it's it's not a river, it's not a you know, it's not the Mississippi, it's a it's a it's a little ditch that we need to hop over to communicate.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ben, not to interrupt you, but I gotta say one thing if you don't mind.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I frankly hate the the term access or accessibility uh to be blunt.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um it feels like a dirty word to us, uh at least for Wayne and myself.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: We just want to have a conversation.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need help to do our jobs, we don't need help to do things.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we just want the ability to have a quick conversation with you.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so over the years, he and I have noticed that uh we're talking about it less.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sometimes we do have to explain that to other people.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, yes, sometimes we have to say yes, this is an accessibility tool.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that's the only way some companies can understand this.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: But for us, it's about a seamless, easy to use, one button-click solution.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we've worked very hard to figure out how to eliminate all the steps involved towards achieving that.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely awesome.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if if there's a central message for the deaf and hard of hearing community that that you're trying to communicate through your vision, it is there that one central message out there for that one.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny, as you say that, I am reminded of a campaign uh that we used to have, and it it it really does kind of imply our message to the world, and it was B you.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Just B you.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Two basic, simple words, but it carried so much weight, right?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: I I come with all of these needs, whether they're communication, uh, I have needs that I need to educate these people on.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, you don't need to explain all that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: Just you know, human nature craves connection, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: If if you have a deaf child that has hearing parents, it means you know that they can't communicate, there's nothing there.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, there's love there, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: And there needs to, there can be communication at a deeper level, but if people can just be themselves, allow human nature to take its course, that that will work.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so our message when we come to work every day, our goal is to give deaf people the tools they need to just be themselves and go out in the world.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and to remain deaf-centered, like uh we had uh Wayne, you want to speak to the hang-up campaign?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good example.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that there's some things that we really miss on how things work in the world.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's funny in regards to the technology and the architecture when we when we built it out.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, back when we founded Convo, you know, kind of like as I was explaining, the the perspective we use, the put POV as a deaf consumer, walking through the day in the life of the shoes of a deaf consumer.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I didn't even realize, even being in the industry for a few years, I didn't realize things that happened, right?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: From an architecture, you know, point of view, from the telephony perspective, right?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because video relay service connects you to the phone system, which means you need to have the full functionality of being able to dial a number, call a person, have that interpreter come in and connect and facilitate the conversation between the hearing and the deaf.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: But what we didn't know that when we started combo, that when a deaf person hangs up the phone, like when they turn off their video, you know, they say goodbye, they push the button, and the video turns off.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: My thought was that the deaf person the hearing person would hear a dial tone.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I thought.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: But in actuality, that was not the case.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: When I turned off my video, I just ended the video section with the interpreter.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: The interpreter was still connected to the hearing person.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that line was still going.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then the interpreters, you know, they have a script.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: They would say the deaf user has just disconnected.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Have a good day.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then they both hung up in terms of the ending the conversation.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't even realize it was like, wow, how many use cases where the deaf person is in control of this conversation, is angry at this person and is hanging up on this person, but the hearing person hears all of this being yelled at, being accosted, and then hearing the deaf user has disconnected.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Have a nice day.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Goodbye.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just a major disconnect.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was one of the things that we realized at Combo was like, oh, this is so simple.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: How do we move this into the conversation where if a deaf person hangs up, the hearing person hears a dial tone?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: That became months of complex architecture and planning and development.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: And we eventually got to the point where we made it work, where it was an authentic point of view experience through and through.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and that and that was major in terms of how it impacted the deaf community.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was a real sense of empowerment where deaf person is, oh yeah, right.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is my conversation, this is my call.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I should be in charge just like anyone else is.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm in a call and I have the right to be emotional, happy, sad, it could be just a monotone uh conversation.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter, it's my call, it shouldn't be under someone else's control.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: But people have been um accustomed to this all our lives.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: We've had interpreters as part of our lives, and so we've always had three-party conversations.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: So finally, deaf people felt they had more control over their own calls.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: That was a major turning point for Convo as a company, where people got to believe, okay, I see where we're heading.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that actually engendered a very loyal following.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Who we have people who have stayed with us throughout 16 years.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: If it works, it works.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that it it is very cool to make sure that the the principal party, the principal to the conversation, has the agency over the conversation.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: That absolutely makes sense because I the you had said when you you know the the equivalent of slamming down the phone.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something that you we don't have anymore so much with you know video call or uh on our cell phones.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I maybe I maybe we could make a slamming sound or something through the through the cell phone uh to make that uh to make that corollary, because there is something extremely satisfying about putting down a handset on the receiver uh when you're just done with a conversation, even if you're not you know trying to send a message to the other person.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just that's I'm done.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: But um what one of the things I wanted uh to uh to say was that you know the the deaf and hard of hearing community is whatever it is, 70 million people or so.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but it does also impact so many more people.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, literally everybody that they interact with.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys had you know mentioned uh Coda, children of deaf adults.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think I think both our interpreters are, right?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh, you know, my uh one of my cousins, uh uh Denisha, her mom is is deaf.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it just is a ripple pattern, right?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's you know, and sometimes you're not you know affected very much, uh, but it does affect people, you know, on a on a rippling, you know, rippling basis.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not literally just X number of million people around the globe.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's again, it's our globe, all of us together.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's really um that's the thing that touched me about about Convo.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I had asked you about what about your vision you wanted to make sure was communicated out to the the deaf and heart of the hearing community.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's let's turn that around though.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and what part of your mission do you want the hearing community to know?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I'll go.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think for my part, I want the hearing community to understand how they can work with us as a company, um, and how together we can make this sustainable.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: We get the nature of business, and uh, things can get very, very expensive, and we don't want this to be expensive for them.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: We understand that uh the more deaf people have opportunity, and there are amazing people out there who are incredibly talented at what they do.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the sad truth is there is talent out there that can't be leveraged due to the simple lack of a conversation.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we want the hearing world to know that talent is a rich resource available in the deaf community, but for the lack of opportunity.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: With those opportunities, i.e., conversations to be had, we can disrupt the industry.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not by having to utilize an interpreter agency or other resources, but by services like Convo in a way that's sustainable, with greater volume, that is, more partnerships that we have.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Costs are driven down to where it gets to the equivalent of a utility charge, at least for their purposes, but they're getting incredible value that they're delivering to deaf individuals because you believe in the value that's inherent there.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Costs can become problematic.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why we're striving to do things differently.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned, Ben, 70 million deaf people, deaf and hard-of-hearing people worldwide.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think it's really nice to emphasize, you know, kind of what that 70 million represents.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's 70 million deaf and hard-of-hearing people who use assigned language, you know, all over the world.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's more.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you talk about individuals who have hearing loss, who are late-deafened, uh, that number really balloons.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, whether it's through old age, whether it's through a work-related accident where they have hearing loss.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, there are folks who have you know some you know hearing still left and they could use hearing amplification devices and it works.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: But 70 million represents signers in the world, right?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the relationships that we've built in Convo, even within Convo, with my hearing colleagues, you know, has been growth for not just the hearing individuals, but for myself, right?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's mutually beneficial.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I learn new perspectives.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: My thinking, you know, is becoming and and hearing people, their thinking becomes more spatial, right?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so my perspective of the world is different, but as colleagues, we still align, we still have human value, but I just provide a different perspective.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I've noticed that in a lot of work in our UX UI, in our design, there's all of these unique perspectives that provide greater value.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And as Jared said, you know, it's if there's a complicated process of having to bring in an interpreter, if there's an exorbitant cost, if the technology is too complicated, you know, an already fragile light goes out very quickly.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes sense, right?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so our goal is to make this as sustainable as possible.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Anybody can, you know, get this turnkey solution, allow human nature to take it course, take its course, and everybody will benefit.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Wayne, you're you're a heck of a storyteller.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I can say that.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so let's spin a story.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Looking 20 years ahead, what is what is the legacy that you guys want, Convo, the innovation behind it, the creativity behind it.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: What do you what legacy do you want to leave in 20 whatever years?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it's only easy to to look forward if you look back.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I constantly think about how the past helps us shape our vision in the future.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's two key points in the past that I think of.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um now, this this is back when you know film technology was really coming about, you know, the the idea of using the chemicals and film strips, new novel technology, right?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: The you know, the the Chicago World Fair.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: There was a moment in time where there was a group of deaf leaders, uh, the you know, with the National Association for the Deaf, NAD, that was established because they were really excited about the political uh landscape, the policy landscape shifting to ensure that everybody learns how to speak and how to read speech because they believed that sign language interfered with intellectual ability, with reading ability.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so naturally, you know, people felt like our natural language as a deaf community was going to be non-existent.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you think about the time, it it the technology was new.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't something that was mainstream yet.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: They had to go to Chicago.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they raised the funds to go to Chicago.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: They found a few people who had the technology available to film, and each of these individuals got up and started signing.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the one of the earliest documented sign language messages in history.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: And what that message was was a message to deaf people in the future.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: The basic idea that this was a time capsule, that in the future we wanted to ensure that there was the preservation of sign language.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this film was documentation.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we hope that this finds you in the future so that you understand that there was one sign language and you can once again bring it to life.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was the message of that very early film.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what made me think you know, how much control that those people did not have.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: But the idea that if they could document it beyond themselves, beyond the generation in which they live, for a far away generation, hopefully this message.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Could last.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Jared and I have that same thinking and the same comp the same as the 700 employees.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we think the same way.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have a deaf zone, but everybody has their own connection.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: How can, when I am gone and buried, I don't care about how I'm viewed and what my legacy is, but I have established the building blocks to a world where everyone can be themselves, can have instant connection, can interact without going through a formal process, having a budget in place, just being able to be a comp to have any kind of conversation as a person.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I want for my son.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Really well stated.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm completely aligned to what Wayne shared.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think also in terms of a legacy, uh, you know, at the end of the day, making money is important, but life is short.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll be fortunate if we live at least 80 years.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the impact that we generate, for me, it goes back to my father, his business in the real estate industry, that moment where I came in and felt helpless and could have no value, that I shouldn't be there, just standing there in my own dad's office, where everything was run off of the phone.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want any other deaf person around the world to have that same feeling where they cannot succeed, they cannot perform, they can't do anything, and are viewed as talentless because they can't hear.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: There are new languages and new ways of communicating in the future that what we have laid will benefit all of humanity.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Period, right?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is opposable thumbs and complicated language, complicated uh communication.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, how much different are we than uh I guess I'm getting a little controversial here, but I mean, you know, how how would we have uh gotten to where we are today?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's for sure.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um right, guys.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, you're so uh open and generous with you know your your stories and you know how you got here.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I think that's that's all I got in terms of the you know the the real questions, but I do have some uh softball questions that I want to lob at you just to get to know you a little bit better, or at least to get the uh the audience to get to know you a little bit better.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I'll start with Wayne because I have it uh lined up right for him.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: So can you tell me something that's not on your IMDB profile or your LinkedIn profile?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's something I'm never gonna have in IM IMDB profile.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's not a softball, that's a curveball, then it's slow.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm throwing a slow.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: A knuckleball.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh I know that people you know know me as a filmmaker, as a storyteller.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: But in actuality, my storytelling, you know, didn't start until I was a college.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: When I was at the Rochester Institute of Technology, um, I found out that I couldn't get into film school.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, in the time that I was waiting until the program opened up and I could enter, um, I was like, what do I do?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I made some extra credit, I did some extra credit so that it could apply to a potential film degree, and it was theater.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, theater, not my foray.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot imagine myself standing on a stage signing.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I like being behind the camera.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I ended up you know joining the theater department, and that lasted almost five years where I was up on stage, but that is not on my resume for sure, but it absolutely helped me build the confidence to stand in front of an audience to present an idea with clarity to a larger audience.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: That it had that played a huge part in how I do that.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've seen uh seen you on your uh TEDx talks, so that's that's absolutely a fruit of that particular labor.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And how about you, Jared?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's something that we don't know about you?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will say on your profile picture, you don't have that beard, and that's a little different.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: But um but but what else?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think something about me, um for me, I'm I'm all about continuous learning.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm hungry for more all the time.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I went from real estate into the communications business, and now that I'm chairman, um I I want to learn about more business models out there.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's really something that you'd necessarily not know about me, but but I am continuously learning.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I feel like uh once you stop learning, that's when the problems kick in.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm never really gonna retire, ever.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a definite thing.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid of retiring because I feel like the moment I retire is a sign of getting haven't getting old.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: But and he's he's an average golf player.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say that.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: He's okay.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's so cliche.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: You have become the chairman now, now you spend your days playing golf.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I you you you can you can absolutely beat me, except maybe maybe I can get you at mini golf.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll see.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe I can put around a little bit, but uh I really love uh your answer, Jared, particularly because that tees up the next question, which is we're all trying to learn all the time, and a lot of us do that through reading.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: What are you guys reading?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, or meant to be an easy one, sorry guys.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, Invent and Wander by Jeff Bezos.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, cool.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I started now reading uh a number of different strategy frameworks, a number of different memos, and things that looked at how companies grew, right?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's easy to tell the startup story because there's so few people in the room, but now how do you deal with it when you scale, when you're at that size?
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been reading into how other companies have done this.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: Invent and Wander by Jeff Bezos.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Very interesting read.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm reading a variety of books like uh KKR, Private Equity, How They Got Started.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm learning about private equity in general.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking to learn the various business models that exist out there.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's how I'm spending my time when I'm reading.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that I can learn to better support the company and the entities that we have in five countries.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to be able to support them in a way that's sustainable as we scale.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm really learning new things, new business strategies, tactics.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also looking to shift more into real estate.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: I come from the real estate industry, shifted to telecommunications, and I feel like I'm turning full circle and uh getting back into some real estate, learning a lot about the energy sector right now.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um of course, there are current challenges that we have in our infrastructure when it comes to energy.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: AI definitely plays a major part, and they're having to build out the infrastructure and data centers, but we don't have the energy to support it all.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a brand new real estate market that's come on the scene to be able to provide adequate energy resources to sustain this new infrastructure.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's the new way that's coming in.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I find it extremely fascinating.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I look forward to having that follow-up interview with you about your sustainable energy company in a couple of years.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that'll be great.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Although please, let's let's talk before a couple years elapses.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: So really to wrap up, if you guys want to be found, what's the best way if somebody can find you?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: For our entire journey, the story, the business, uh, our website is the best place.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is low is located there.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Convo.io.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: You can get started there and start your journey.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Muscle on LinkedIn.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: And just say, hey, I saw you on that podcast.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh if you open that way, I'm more likely to respond and we can connect.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Number one.
• 54:20
  unknown: Okay.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guys, this is awesome.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I have been looking forward to this for well, weeks, weeks and weeks anyway, uh, to get to do this uh episode with you.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I've really enjoyed it.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully it's it's added a little value to your lives as well.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: But Jared and Wayne, thank you so much for coming on.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: And Bobby and Ralph, thank you very much for being here and being, you know, the life of the party.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ben, thank you so much for having us both here.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: We've really enjoyed being on the podcast, and uh we wish you much success.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, thank you.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, guys.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a wrap.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: You've been listening to Max Value Podcast.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if this episode provided any interesting information, hit that subscribe button, match like, and drop a comment below.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ben Town Account Advisory, and I'll catch you next time.