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#52 - Before You Fire Your Marketing Person, Listen to This · Sharp Strategies Sweet Success

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone, and welcome.
• 0:02
  This is your host,
• 0:02
  Tiffany Swedensky,
• 0:04
  and you are listening to Sharp Strategies Sweet Success.
• 0:08
  And today we are going to talk about the structure of a law
• 0:11
  firm marketing department.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sharp Strategies Sweet Success.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been working in legal marketing for the last 10 years,
• 0:31
  and currently I'm a fractional CMO and a fractional CMO is
• 0:36
  still kind of new to the
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: legal marketing space.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a new role overall.
• 0:43
  And the reason that fractional CMOs exist is because a lot of
• 0:46
  small businesses
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: can't afford a full-time CMO.
• 0:50
  And so they need somebody with experience in their field with a
• 0:55
  prior experience in
• 0:56
  managing a marketing department and being a strategic lead for
• 1:00
  a law firm marketing
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: department.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why a lot of fractional CMOs exist in this space,
• 1:05
  because it's a lot more affordable for a law firm to hire a
• 1:09
  fractional CMO and the
• 1:11
  leader than going out and finding somebody who has experience
• 1:16
  but probably comes
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: with kind of a higher price tag because they're a full time CMO.
• 1:21
  And somebody with that level of experience is going to make
• 1:25
  anywhere between,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: and it depends on where you live,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: but 140 to up to $200,000 a year.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a lot of money.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of money for a small business.
• 1:37
  But if you're a small business and your hopes are to compete
• 1:42
  and be one of the top
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: three law firms in your region,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: you definitely need some strategic marketing leadership at your firm.
• 1:52
  Now,
• 1:53
  I say all that,
• 1:54
  but for most small businesses,
• 1:56
  the CMO is actually the business owner.
• 2:00
  Because when you're just starting a business,
• 2:02
  you hold all the C-suite hats.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're the CEO, the CMO, the CTO, the CFO.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a solo just getting started,
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: or maybe you have a few team members,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: but no other leaders,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: you're still occupying a lot of those C-suite spaces at your business.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's totally normal, natural, and fine.
• 2:24
  There are some startups,
• 2:25
  there are a lot of big business startups,
• 2:27
  I guess,
• 2:28
  that
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: launched with a full C-suite and a full marketing team.
• 2:33
  But when we're talking in the small law firm space,
• 2:37
  obviously that's pretty rare.
• 2:39
  And so most people get started where the business owner,
• 2:43
  the lawyer is the CMO.
• 2:45
  And so they're the strategic lead for the marketing and they're
• 2:49
  essentially doing all of it.
• 2:51
  And they hold that position until they hire a CMO or maybe a
• 2:57
  marketing director.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is kind of a gray area between marketing director and CMO.
• 3:03
  Now,
• 3:04
  there is actually a difference between these two titles when
• 3:08
  you look at big businesses.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But for the small law firm,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: difference between a marketing director and a CMO,
• 3:15
  CMO is going to have more experience and the marketing director
• 3:19
  is probably going
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: to be
• 3:21
  doing a little bit more executing and tactitional stuff than
• 3:25
  the CMO is doing.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: these are in most businesses separate and distinct roles,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: but we kind of blur the lines when we're talking to small businesses,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you are the CMO marketing director until you hire that person.
• 3:40
  And here's where a lot of us have been getting this kind of
• 3:44
  wrong for a long time.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: My controversial take,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll put controversial in quotes here,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: is that your first marketing hire shouldn't be,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: it definitely shouldn't be a CMO.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: and even as a fractional CMO,
• 4:01
  I don't work with law firms that don't already have at least
• 4:04
  one in-house marketer.
• 4:06
  And that's because when you're marketing a small business or a
• 4:10
  small law firm,
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  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of work that needs to be done.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's obvious maybe,
• 4:15
  but maybe it's not because a lot of times the thing that law
• 4:20
  firms have been
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: getting wrong for so long is that they'll hire,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: and I called it on LinkedIn the other day,
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  SPEAKER_00: the Swiss army knife marketer.
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  They find somebody who has a huge breadth of experience,
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  and that's not impossible to find.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of generalist marketers out there.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then they bring this person on,
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: and if they have a lot of experience,
• 4:44
  they're at the stage in their career where they're a manager or
• 4:47
  maybe ready to be a
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: marketing director themselves.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're at that stage in their career,
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  that means like they're probably not in a position where
• 4:56
  they've been executing on
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of tasks.
• 4:58
  There is one situation a couple of years ago where the law firm
• 5:03
  was interested in
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: hiring somebody who was a marketing manager for a local private school.
• 5:10
  And they did some really good work as the marketing manager for
• 5:14
  this school and
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: came to the law firm with an impressive resume.
• 5:19
  But as we started to dig into their background and actually the
• 5:24
  HR at that law firm
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: ended up calling the school to interview their supervisor.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wasn't aware of this.
• 5:32
  I mean,
• 5:32
  I kind of was,
• 5:33
  I suspected,
• 5:34
  but I guess like as a rule,
• 5:36
  if you're an employer,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: and somebody calls you with a reference,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: for an employee,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: it's in the business,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: the prior business's best,
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:46
  interest to say at the very least neutral things or hopefully
• 5:52
  like positive things.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so we talked with this,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:56
  a person who managed this marketing manager that we were gonna
• 6:00
  hire and in a very,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: very kind of coded way,
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  SPEAKER_00: they said,
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  SPEAKER_00: They are really great at organizing people,
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: but they are not really great at doing all the little things.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it was,
• 6:14
  it was all the little things that kind of set off a red flag in
• 6:18
  our minds because
• 6:19
  this law firm was looking for somebody who can come on board
• 6:24
  and work in-house and
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: help us organize events,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: organize video shoots,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: take pictures.
• 6:33
  and also execute on a lot of the marketing tactics that this
• 6:38
  law firm uses.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: We had a very limited team at that time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I was kind of that law firm's first marketing hire.
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  They were in a position where we needed somebody who could
• 6:51
  execute and do things
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: because we had the strategic leadership,
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: not just in me,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: but in the law firm owner himself.
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  SPEAKER_00: He had a lot of ideas he wanted to put into play.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so we just needed that boots on the ground, kind of go-getter person.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And with a manager, you're not going to get that.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been in that position where we've hired somebody who's
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: supposed to do a lot of this boots on the ground stuff,
• 7:19
  but they themselves only have managerial experience or they
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  just really don't have
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: much marketing experience.
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  SPEAKER_00: They kind of inflated their resume, which happens.
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  I was in a conversation with somebody on LinkedIn and they made
• 7:36
  a very good point.
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  And I think it's a very good point that most people's
• 7:40
  experience is overrated.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is absolutely true.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's absolutely true from the point of view.
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  SPEAKER_00: I remember being in college and being coached on how to get a job,
• 7:56
  how to be competitive and how to get your resume noticed and
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  all this stuff.
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  And I was coached on that and explicitly coached to like prop
• 8:06
  your skills up in the
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  SPEAKER_00: best light possible.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so that's not even an unethical thing to do.
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  We're just telling job applicants to market themselves and
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  advocate for themselves.
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  SPEAKER_00: And some people do this really well.
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  SPEAKER_00: When they write on their resumes,
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  SPEAKER_00: they're perfectly honest and clear about what their responsibilities are.
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  But for the vast majority of people submitting resumes,
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  I mean,
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  these days,
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  their chat gpt generated and it's kind of a coin flip you know
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  i think if they've
• 8:40
  actually did that duty that they listed on their resume well i
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  mean just people
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  tend to over exaggerate people will lie every if you have a
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  marketing job at a law
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  firm that is very very very very very appealing to a huge
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  number of marketing
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  SPEAKER_00: applicants um and i think we kind of underestimate that
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  I definitely have been in the position where I was somebody
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  with a marketing degree
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  SPEAKER_00: with experience.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'd done a bunch of freelance marketing projects.
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  And with writing experience,
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  I published like a little article in a magazine.
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  SPEAKER_00: All of this I did before I got my first official marketing job.
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  SPEAKER_00: And all of that kind of unpaid experience,
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  I was paid in experience work that I did prior to getting an
• 9:33
  actual marketing role.
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  I was leveraging that the best I could to try to be noticed in
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  job applications.
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  And marketing roles,
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  you know,
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  on Indeed or,
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  you know,
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  anywhere else you might look for jobs.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, 90% of them are actually like coded sales jobs.
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  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  you show up for a marketing job and you end up interviewing for
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  a sales associate
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  SPEAKER_00: and mattress firm or something ridiculous like that.
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  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a marketing applicant and you're looking for marketing jobs,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  a good 70% of the work out there is actually a sales and not a
• 10:08
  marketing job.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so if,
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  SPEAKER_00: if I was somebody,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: the Tiffany of let's just say like 12 years ago or 13 years ago,
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  SPEAKER_00: looking for a marketing job.
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  And I saw a law firm offering a marketing manager role or a
• 10:23
  marketing coordinator
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  SPEAKER_00: role or a generalist role.
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  SPEAKER_00: I would be all over that.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not alone.
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  SPEAKER_00: A lot of other people would be too.
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  SPEAKER_00: It sounds prestigious to your average person.
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  And so I think we tend to underestimate like how competitive
• 10:39
  our own job applications can be.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you have to try to get noticed.
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  You just have to attract the right people with your job
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  description or your job
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  SPEAKER_00: posting,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: whatever you call it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so bringing this back to where I originally got started with this,
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  SPEAKER_00: you need somebody,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: if it's your first marketing hire,
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  SPEAKER_00: you don't need somebody who knows SEO.
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  SPEAKER_00: You need somebody who can log into ActiveCampaign, MailChimp,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm trying to think of another CRM.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Keep, not too many people use that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: ConvertKit, HubSpot, whatever.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever CRM you use,
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  SPEAKER_00: they need to be able to log into that,
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  SPEAKER_00: put together an email newsletter reasonably competently.
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  Putting together a great email newsletter is tremendously
• 11:30
  difficult to do.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Putting together an average one, super easy, and almost anyone can do it.
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  SPEAKER_00: If you want a really, really great email newsletter, consult the pros.
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  SPEAKER_00: But if you need somebody to show up at your office,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: put together the newsletter,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: put the newsletter list on the email and press send or schedule to send,
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  SPEAKER_00: you don't need a marketing manager to do that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: You need a generalist or somebody who's
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: maybe got a year or two experience who's reasonably well,
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: competent with just basic technology.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've said this before on another podcast about hiring marketers,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: but when you are hiring marketers,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: understanding the basics of a CRM is an optional it's essential.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to an attorney recently who said,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: we could hire a digital marketer to figure out Mailchimp.
• 12:28
  And my reply is that you don't need a digital marketer to
• 12:32
  figure out Mailchimp.
• 12:33
  You just need somebody who understands the basic of computer
• 12:37
  applications.
• 12:38
  Because Mailchimp,
• 12:40
  ActiveCampaign,
• 12:42
  some of these are more complicated than others.
• 12:44
  But if you know how to drag a button from one side of the
• 12:47
  screen and drop it on the
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: other side of the screen,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: you should be able to use and figure out MailChimp.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you can visualize some systems in your head,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: you should be able to figure out MailChimp or ActiveCampaign.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And those skills are just the ante to play the game.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're just getting started.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: You are the CMO.
• 13:10
  And you hire somebody with a little bit of marketing experience
• 13:14
  to run your marketing tasks.
• 13:16
  And those basic,
• 13:19
  I think everyone with one marketer should be able to handle
• 13:22
  this list.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is what it is.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Weekly email newsletter,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: monthly print newsletter,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: a thrice weekly or twice weekly social media post and list management.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just making sure contacts are being added to your database.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I would add to that list is manage vendors.
• 13:44
  And when I say manage vendors,
• 13:47
  I've been asked about that a lot in my career.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I better manage my SEO?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get better results out of my SEO vendor?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do I make sure they're doing what they should be doing?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be honest,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: for an SEO company,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to know what they're doing,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: it's in their contract.
• 14:05
  You can look at the contract you signed with the SEO company
• 14:08
  and it should tell you
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: exactly what they're going to do.
• 14:12
  Typically,
• 14:12
  these contracts include publishing articles of a certain word
• 14:17
  count.
• 14:17
  You're going to get either a total word count each month or a
• 14:21
  total number of
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: articles each month.
• 14:23
  so the second thing that most seo vendors are going to do is
• 14:27
  update your old
• 14:29
  content or optimize your old content again it's going to be
• 14:32
  listed in their
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: contract how much of this they're going to do each month and then
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: These SEO vendors usually do technical SEO.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for me,
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: technical SEO isn't something you need to do every month,
• 14:46
  but a lot of SEO companies will monitor and make updates as
• 14:49
  necessary each month.
• 14:52
  That doesn't mean they're doing something for your technical
• 14:54
  SEO each month,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: because if your SEO is if your website is technically optimized,
• 15:01
  It's just technically optimized and there's not often a lot of
• 15:05
  changes you need to
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: go back and make.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: If it's done well,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: maybe like once every three months you find a new issue,
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: you got to go back or a new issue arises.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: You have to go deal with it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And an SEO company is going to do that as needed.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: But.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: assuming that they do it correctly in the beginning,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: they're probably not going to be doing much of that each month.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:28
  So the fourth thing that they usually do is acquire backlinks
• 15:32
  and backlinks.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to explain what those are.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: You probably know what those are just link backs to your website.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so each SEO company has maybe a slightly different way.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: They acquire backlinks.
• 15:43
  A lot of SEO companies use third party white label services to
• 15:47
  do the backlink acquiring.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they're,
• 15:50
  actually paying a company to do work on your behalf,
• 15:53
  to get these backlinks and
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's not unusual.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of companies do it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of companies use these white label services,
• 15:59
  and it's a necessary service for SEO because backlinks are
• 16:02
  still an important piece
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: of the puzzle.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And just like with content,
• 16:07
  they're going to be contracted to do a certain number of
• 16:10
  backlinks for you each
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: month.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so from my perspective,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: when you're talking about managing vendors and vendors are SEO vendors,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: web vendors,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: for the most part,
• 16:21
  I just feel like most of these companies are doing what they're
• 16:23
  supposed to do.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But just like a lot of companies, they have different tiers of packages.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if you opted for the lower or mid tier package,
• 16:34
  you probably shouldn't expect the same results that their top
• 16:37
  tier people who paid
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: more for their SEO are getting.
• 16:42
  you're going to be getting less and that's going to be
• 16:46
  reflected in the kind of
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: results you get and the kind of rankings you get.
• 16:49
  SEO companies will do what they're contracted to do and a lot
• 16:53
  of them will do it
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: exceptionally well.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And for the most part, when I'm working with SEO companies,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know, they're doing, they're putting in the work.
• 17:02
  There's not a whole lot I need to do or I could do to get more
• 17:08
  out of the work that
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: they're doing,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: if that makes sense.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: If all they're gonna do is write four new articles a week,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can make sure those articles are on the right topic,
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: on the right practice area,
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: are properly optimized.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, for the most part, I only work with vendors that I trust.
• 17:25
  And so I'm working with vendors where I know their content is
• 17:29
  good and I check in
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: on it every now and then.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not wondering if they're doing all the right things.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know they're doing the right things.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the reason I recommended that we hired them.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me,
• 17:43
  I feel like a lot of law firms make the vendor management piece
• 17:48
  a much bigger part
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: of the job than it needs to be.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, let's just assume you signed up with a vendor that you trust.
• 17:57
  You signed up with a package that will get you the best results
• 18:01
  without you
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: overpaying and they're doing
• 18:05
  you know,
• 18:05
  what they promised that they would do according to the
• 18:08
  contract.
• 18:09
  You can manage them by like finding issues on the website and
• 18:13
  asking them to update.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: assuming they're doing what they're doing,
• 18:17
  you're not going to push them to get better results than they
• 18:21
  might give another
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: law firm,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: particularly another law firm that's paying them more.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: bringing this back,
• 18:28
  vendor management is just one of those things that your first
• 18:32
  marketer might do.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: But also,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen plenty of junior marketers,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: myself included,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: go on a power trip when it comes to vendors and
• 18:44
  So it's one of the things where if you find that your first
• 18:48
  time marketer is
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: spending a lot of time managing vendors,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: one,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: verify that it's necessary.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Two, hopefully you hired a vendor you trusted.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're doing probably what they can be doing to help you out.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then just check your marketer.
• 19:09
  Let them know,
• 19:09
  like,
• 19:10
  hey,
• 19:10
  you know,
• 19:10
  we hired these guys,
• 19:11
  we trusted them.
• 19:13
  I want you to make sure they keep up with their what they're
• 19:15
  supposed to be doing.
• 19:17
  But we're not going to get to page one of Google by sending
• 19:21
  them an email each
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: month that says,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: why aren't we on the page on Google?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how it works.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you want the SEO work to happen faster and your SEO company more.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's that simple.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the CEO or that's you as a CMO.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this is your first hire, the marketing manager.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of law firms just stop there.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's fine.
• 19:45
  You know,
• 19:46
  a lot of businesses maybe don't want to grow beyond a certain
• 19:48
  point.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so they don't need additional marketing help.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you,
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: and this is not a knock on anyone,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: but if you have yourself as the CEO or CMO,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: your marketing manager,
• 20:04
  and that's it,
• 20:05
  you know,
• 20:05
  maybe an SEO vendor,
• 20:07
  website vendor,
• 20:08
  and that's it.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to grow to a point and then plateau.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't feel like that's radical to say, right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: let's compare,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: a three,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: you,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: your marketing manager,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: your SEO vendor,
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:26
  compare that to a three person team to the marketing teams of
• 20:30
  some of the law firms
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: that I know,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: that I know personally.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one of my clients has myself a fractional CMO.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: We have a marketing coordinator.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: We have a video editor and creative director.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have an SEO company.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have a separate PPC company.
• 20:47
  And now we have a separate local service ads company managing
• 20:52
  local service ads.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just a big team.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, nobody is fighting over territory.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody is saying like, who's doing what, or I used to do that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: the understanding at this law firm is,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: is that we're,
• 21:05
  we're growing the team and everyone's goal is to get better
• 21:09
  marketing results.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: I may be bragging a little bit,
• 21:15
  but your three-person team probably isn't going to outdo our
• 21:20
  five or six-person
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: team.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: I forget how many people I listed.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're just not because we have at least one team,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: vendor,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: person,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: however you want to classify them.
• 21:30
  dedicated to seo and if you have a marketing manager that's
• 21:34
  doing social media seo
• 21:37
  email management and referrals they're just not going to
• 21:41
  compete with an entire
• 21:43
  marketing vendor that has an in-house team probably their own
• 21:48
  external team
• 21:49
  gathering backlinks like you're you're only going to be able to
• 21:52
  do so much as a
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: one-person team that's just fact
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you want to stay with that three person setup,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: which is really common,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: that's great.
• 22:02
  But a lot of law firms will take another step and start hiring
• 22:06
  extra people.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I get a little self-serving.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: but you know,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: at that point you need to ask yourself,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:15
  do I need another person to execute on marketing projects or do
• 22:21
  I need somebody who
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: can lead a little bit?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: and really at some point,
• 22:27
  even if you are the CMO and you plan to be the CMO for the rest
• 22:32
  of the duration of
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: your firm,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to a lot of attorneys who are like that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the CMO.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the star.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the truth, by the way.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: At the Sharp Marketing Seminar in June,
• 22:44
  one of the things I try to teach the marketers is that your
• 22:48
  attorney is the star of
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: the show.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're the star of your marketing and what you do.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just promoting the brand.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: You are promoting them as a person and as an individual.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so part of a marketer's job is to,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: prop up and paint this attorney,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: the star of the show,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: in the best light possible.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so naturally, you know, that's not going to change.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you're a law firm and you're like the head attorney,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: most of these law firms,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: it's the lead attorney's name,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Morris Bart,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: even down in Louisiana.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's the attorney's name.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the brand is built up not just around an abstract colors and logos.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's built around the person.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it makes a lot of sense to me when a lot of attorneys say,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am the CMO and I will always be the CMO because in their heads,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: they're the literal star of the show.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just true.
• 23:48
  And so naturally,
• 23:49
  that's going to be a route that a lot of small law firms take.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I will always be the strategic lead.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I will always say what type of marketing we're going to do.
• 24:00
  I'm going to say if it looks good,
• 24:03
  if it meets my objectives,
• 24:06
  if it strikes the right balance.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And really,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: even if they do bring on a CMO,
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: the attorney is never going to fully disengage with the marketing.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: and I've never seen it because I,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: as I've been reminded a few times recently,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: but you know,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: business owners,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: lawyers start a business because they like some aspect of business.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a huge part of that is marketing and brand building.
• 24:37
  A lot of y'all who started your own law firm,
• 24:39
  part of you maybe love the idea of marketing.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: and just really kind of was drawn to this entire space.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you own a law firm now.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's gonna be actually,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: it's maybe not as rare as it would seem,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: but there are some lawyers I talk to who just say like,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care and I have no idea.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just want more cases.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's fine.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And when I encounter those attorneys,
• 25:08
  actually would prefer that they be more involved i would prefer
• 25:13
  that they give me
• 25:14
  you know a semblance of or some sense of their personal
• 25:18
  identity because as i said
• 25:20
  we are regardless of you know the fact that we have a company
• 25:24
  and a brand name we
• 25:26
  are still marketing around the star of our show which is the
• 25:29
  attorney right
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: and so some attorneys I talked to are just like,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: and I wish they were more engaged.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then, then I talked to a lot of other attorneys.
• 25:40
  I talked to a lot of attorneys who are very interested in
• 25:43
  marketing and I talked to
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: their marketers too,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: who kind of roll their eyes and say,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: my attorney is really interested in the marketing.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you know,
• 25:54
  It happens where the attorney loves marketing so much that
• 25:59
  their meetings are about marketing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Most of their conversations are about marketing.
• 26:03
  And it's probably materially more exciting for them than maybe
• 26:08
  the actual practice law.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not telling anyone who they are.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I talk to those guys, too.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they're always going to be some sort of ring leader.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: and this is where it gets self-serving,
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: almost everyone wants to be the star of the marketing,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: to bring the ideas,
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: to be the leader.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you still need to know how to do these things.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: if you come to your marketers and say,
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I want to implement a Reddit marketing strategy.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about that on a previous podcast, something new.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You go to your marketers and say,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 26:48
  I want to establish a TikTok account that people actually want
• 26:52
  to engage with and
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: follow.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, or I want to do a YouTube.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do an improved YouTube channel.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: where we're publishing content that's entertaining and informational.
• 27:04
  And I saw this guy,
• 27:06
  Jeff Hampton,
• 27:07
  and I want to do exactly what he's doing.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: if you're the business owner,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: you're come to your marketing team and say,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want this.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: They'll do their best.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: They absolutely will.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll probably get a long way themselves.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: But there's only if you've never optimized a YouTube channel,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: if you've never engaged with or reviewed the metrics,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: if you've never built a following,
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: all of it's kind of theoretical to you.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know what you need to do, but you don't know how to do it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you're also unsure about what resources you have,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: what tools you need to get.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking about if somebody's a marketing manager,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: two,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: three years of experience,
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: it's a tall order to come to them and say,
• 27:55
  you may have never optimized a law firm marketing or YouTube
• 27:59
  channel before,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: but I wanna do exactly what Jeff Hampton does.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's really daunting.
• 28:06
  And believe me,
• 28:07
  you're not the only law firm owner asking their marketers to do
• 28:10
  that.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of competition.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone's trying to get better at YouTube, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's knowing what you need to do,
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: and then there's knowing how you need to do it,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: which is a lot of times where I help law firms fill the gaps.
• 28:27
  Their marketers are capable,
• 28:29
  they're intelligent,
• 28:31
  but they've never done this before.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And they're working with tools that,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know if they need something better.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know if there's something cheaper or they don't you know,
• 28:42
  they don't just they don't know how to get the attorney to
• 28:44
  record more videos.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the process for that?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of times I come in,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: and some lawyers want me to come in hot with ideas,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: which we do.
• 28:56
  But a lot of times,
• 28:57
  like the biggest value I give to law firms is,
• 29:00
  you know,
• 29:00
  here.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to start treating the marketing department,
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: not just as,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: arts and crafts of the business,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: but actually treat it as a functioning system,
• 29:15
  like a system within a system that's going to help us get more
• 29:19
  cases and get more
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: leads.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so the theory, like what we need to do, that's everywhere.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: go to one of your competitors and look at their website,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: look at their social media and see what they're doing.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's easy.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just published a Substack article yesterday, 36 marketing ideas.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote that list Sunday morning before 10 a.m.
• 29:42
  before my kids really woke up and got out of bed because that's
• 29:44
  the only time I
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: have time to write.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the ideas are easy.
• 29:50
  I keep telling you all this because a lot of times like,
• 29:53
  oh,
• 29:53
  I need ideas.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I need ideas.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Ideas are everywhere.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the ideas that are the hard part.
• 29:59
  The hard part is how are we going to do it and how are we going
• 30:03
  to do it much
• 30:05
  better than another team can do it or another team with our
• 30:09
  same resources can do
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 30:11
  Because that's the real differentiating factor between a law
• 30:15
  firm that's just kind
• 30:16
  of pantomiming what they see their competitors doing without a
• 30:21
  full understanding
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: of what the competition is doing,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: how they're using it,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: what their goals are.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because in the fog of war of marketing and business,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: it's really easy to look at somebody's stuff from the outside and say,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: that looks great.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: That must be working out great for them.
• 30:43
  And then for the reality is that maybe it doesn't do a lot for
• 30:46
  the business.
• 30:47
  Maybe it's just something easy for the business to do and
• 30:50
  implement that looks like
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: it's working.
• 30:52
  Over my career,
• 30:53
  I've consulted with hundreds of law firms,
• 30:56
  just tons of attorneys.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of them I talked with more than once.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:01
  I was a part of Great Legal Marketing for a lot of years and
• 31:06
  would help organize
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: their conferences and even speak at a few of them.
• 31:10
  And I would see attorneys,
• 31:11
  you know,
• 31:12
  come to each and every event,
• 31:14
  you know,
• 31:14
  every year.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, same law firm was there.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.
• 31:21
  And,
• 31:22
  you know,
• 31:22
  a lot of these law firms that came year over year,
• 31:25
  you could see them grow.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they would grow because they would go back to their offices,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: take what they learned and implement it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: and not calling anyone out specifically,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would also see the same or different attorneys,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: but attend events,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: multiple years in a row.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: and then come up to me and say, I just don't know what to do.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's valid.
• 31:54
  Even though they probably went to the event and sat down and
• 31:59
  heard 20 new ideas
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: that they didn't implement or haven't implemented before lunch.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they, they don't know exactly how to execute on any of them.
• 32:09
  You know,
• 32:10
  they don't know,
• 32:10
  like,
• 32:10
  how do I,
• 32:12
  you know,
• 32:12
  what times do I post on social media?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Can I post links?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need a CTA in this?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like how often should we post this?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of those questions go unanswered when you're at events.
• 32:24
  And so you need to bring somebody in who,
• 32:28
  you know,
• 32:28
  is like a project manager.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want to undersell my role as a CMO.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because CMO and project managers are different things.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're working with law firm that has like three people,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: three people marketing team,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: project management is a big part of what leadership does.
• 32:47
  Setting deadlines,
• 32:49
  setting expectations in terms of what gets done when and who
• 32:53
  does what.
• 32:54
  And then also having this understanding of how long something
• 32:57
  is supposed to take.
• 32:59
  Um,
• 33:00
  you know,
• 33:00
  that's,
• 33:00
  that's something else that's kind of in the marketing fog of
• 33:03
  war.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, how long does it take to set up an email newsletter?
• 33:07
  You know,
• 33:07
  it's just putting words on a page chat to BT could do it,
• 33:10
  do it in two seconds.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: it takes like an hour and a half,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: but you know,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't take half the week or something like that.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:19
  sometimes business owners just have no idea how long these
• 33:22
  specific marketing tasks
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: take.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need like that leadership who not only knows like,
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 33:28
  can you set this email newsletter up today and do it with the
• 33:33
  authority that they
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: know this could be done in a day and you can do it today?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you're running a business and running a law firm,
• 33:43
  it can be hard to stay like plugged in and connected with what
• 33:47
  your team is doing
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: on a day to day basis.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know that from personal experience, trying to do your work.
• 33:55
  And then I have three other employees that I'm keeping up with
• 33:59
  and making sure
• 34:00
  they're doing their work and they're getting feedback from me
• 34:02
  when they need it.
• 34:04
  And I'm giving them direction on what to do next and just
• 34:09
  acting in that role.
• 34:10
  And I only have a three person team,
• 34:12
  and I know some of you law firms have
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: 10 attorneys,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: paralegals,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: case managers,
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: receptionist intake team,
• 34:21
  you might have like a 10 person team at your law firm and a one
• 34:25
  person marketing
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: department.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so for a lot of the reasons I just listed,
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: like telling your marketing department,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: not just what to do,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: but how to do it,
• 34:36
  setting reasonable expectations and project timetables where
• 34:41
  not only they know how
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: long something is supposed to take,
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: or not only do you know what timeline you want to get done on,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: but you know,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: what your team is capable of doing,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: what skills that they have,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: what skills they need,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: what tools they need and are able to give them that guidance.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because unless your first marketing hire is somebody who is a leader,
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: like is a CMO,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: but for some reason has decided to accept,
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: a quarter of what they would usually make to work as a marketing manager,
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: which,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: by the way,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: is probably unlikely.
• 35:16
  then unless they have that built in experience where not only
• 35:21
  they know how to do
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: things,
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: but also what they need to do next.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they also have time to figure out like, what do we need to do next?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can just tell you that's super uncommon.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: The marketers that I know who are running law firms that you know,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: aren't running a department solo.
• 35:43
  They have a marketing team or a network of vendors or a
• 35:46
  combination of both at their disposal.
• 35:49
  And then some law firms have that solo marketer because that's
• 35:54
  all they're
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: they're growing well enough on their own.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And for the lawyers who are really good,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: they themselves at networking,
• 36:04
  they have a strong social media following or they like to go
• 36:08
  and attend CLEs and
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: they get referrals just because they're that type of person.
• 36:15
  Maybe all you need is a one person marketing team because you
• 36:18
  just need somebody's
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: update,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: social media and your email newsletter.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: But,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll bring this back to an earlier point,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: your one person marketer only has so much bandwidth.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every person gets the same 40 hours a week as everyone else.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I,
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: some of the law firms I work with have,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: five or six person marketing team or,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: vendors and team members,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: and they're growing,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: we're looking at who our next hire is and you just have three,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:50
  you gotta set reasonable expectations about like how much this
• 36:53
  one person can do
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: for your business.
• 36:56
  And by and large,
• 36:58
  it's hard to do the executing and the ideating at the same
• 37:03
  time.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times you're just in one green mode or the other.
• 37:07
  And so you're probably not going to get like a leader warrior
• 37:12
  executor on your team
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: unless you just get really lucky.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then if they're really talented,
• 37:18
  they're going to want to move up in their careers and their job
• 37:21
  titles or their
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: salaries.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not growing with them to accommodate them,
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to do their own thing maybe.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you start your business and you're the CML.
• 37:32
  And then you hire somebody who's executing for you,
• 37:35
  your marketing manager.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then at this point,
• 37:38
  you're probably going to bring in some sort of leadership or
• 37:42
  manager to manage not
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: only your team,
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: but maybe the other vendors who are working with you.
• 37:48
  And as somebody who has like the time and bandwidth to manage
• 37:53
  other people,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: give them timely feedback.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: and also like look at your data and analyze it the way,
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: at a pretty high level,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: it,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: you want to,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: you want somebody doing your data analysis,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: who knows what they're looking at.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: and then who you hire,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: like outside of that,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: like for your marketing department,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: just depends on how you're going to market.
• 38:19
  So firms that are going heavy into video and into TikTok and
• 38:23
  YouTube and just want
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: to go dominate their strategies,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's actually really easy to hire an offshore video editor.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: my video editor is offshore and they handle all of my video clips,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: all of my graphic design and creatives.
• 38:39
  And he's really great at what he does and just is really great
• 38:44
  at helping me.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he's editing this video, so I have to be careful when I say.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: But he's just great at cutting all of these things together.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just a piece of the marketing that's handled.
• 38:57
  And it's handled by somebody who knows what they're doing and
• 38:59
  who's dedicated to it.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way,
• 39:02
  if you've never had to upload a video to Google Drive and then
• 39:07
  realize that it
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: takes an hour,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: then understand that video editing just takes a long time.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Video editing is extremely time consuming.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's something.
• 39:16
  you know you want somebody dedicated to video if you're gonna
• 39:19
  do video um but if
• 39:21
  you're not doing video if you're not doing digital marketing
• 39:24
  like ppc or ads or
• 39:26
  something like that maybe you're focusing more on referrals
• 39:30
  then you need a
• 39:31
  marketer on your team who is good at that and actually i kind
• 39:36
  of see it pretty
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: commonly where the marketing director
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: is that person.
• 39:41
  They're also the person who's managing referral relationships
• 39:45
  and they're doing
• 39:45
  like face to face networking with other attorneys and other
• 39:48
  business owners.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I've seen that and it works out perfectly in some cases,
• 39:55
  as long as that person has enough time to manage the other
• 39:59
  people in the marketing
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: department.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: otherwise,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: if,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't want,
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: if you need a dedicated leader,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: because you have a marketing manager doing this,
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: you have a video editor doing this,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: you have your SEO vendor or PPC vendors doing this.
• 40:15
  Um,
• 40:15
  then you,
• 40:16
  if you're,
• 40:17
  you know,
• 40:18
  still want to grow and get more referrals,
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: you probably need at least one person who can do that networking.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah,
• 40:28
  you probably want somebody to like network and interface with
• 40:30
  other business
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: owners,
• 40:32
  but you probably also want somebody who can go to a medical
• 40:36
  clinic and drop off a
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: stack of 15 books and say,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hey,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: we're a law firm down the street.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: We handle car accident cases.
• 40:45
  Here's a stack of books on how to handle a property damage
• 40:49
  claim on your own.
• 40:51
  If you have anybody come in as a patient who was injured in a
• 40:54
  car accident,
• 40:55
  you can give them this book to help out with the property
• 40:59
  damage claim part,
• 41:00
  and maybe we'll be able to help them with their case and
• 41:03
  essentially give them a
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: free resource that they can hand out to their patients at their office.
• 41:09
  it sounds simple but it works you know we we've done this at
• 41:13
  like two law firms i
• 41:14
  work at or i work for and i'm surprised both times this has
• 41:20
  happened but the
• 41:21
  doctor's office gives them all out and calls us up and says hey
• 41:24
  we need more and
• 41:25
  that's great you know and that's expanding our footprint with
• 41:29
  their patients
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: getting the books and reading our materials,
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: but it's also spanning our influence with them as business owners,
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: because now the business owner of this medical clinic knows her name,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: their front desk people know her name,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: their nurses maybe know her name.
• 41:48
  And that's just that many more people interfacing with other
• 41:51
  people who might get
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: into car accidents.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: They know her name, they can recommend us, simple as that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it all starts with just that one person who can
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: hit the streets,
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: hand out books,
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: keep track of relationships,
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: keep spreadsheets updated,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: know who they need to contact next.
• 42:10
  And just generally like is really good at personal interfacing
• 42:16
  being helpful.
• 42:18
  And that is a very important hire for a lot of law firms who
• 42:22
  are kind of rejecting digital.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And even though it sounds simple, managing referrals is a full-time job.
• 42:29
  And I've seen a lot of law firms do this thing where we combine
• 42:33
  it with the intake
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: role or we combine it with the paralegal role.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I run a business and if you need something done,
• 42:42
  it's much easier to delegate to an employee that you have
• 42:45
  instead of like hiring
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: somebody new.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I totally get that.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: But again,
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: like you're not,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: if you went to an event and heard of somebody's super cool,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: complicated referral program process,
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: and you're going to bring that back to your marketing manager,
• 43:01
  who's already doing like a zillion other things and expect them
• 43:04
  to implement it
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: flawlessly on their own without bugging you too much about it.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ain't going to happen.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ain't going to happen.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you need somebody who's,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you want to implement one of those things full tilt,
• 43:17
  you need somebody who's good at managing relationships and
• 43:20
  keeping track of
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: relationships.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people who,
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: were working sales jobs and selling cocoa knives or something like that,
• 43:28
  who would love to break into marketing as an event manager or
• 43:32
  as a as a network
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: networker.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the name of the role is,
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: somebody who's managing those referral and informally
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: sales relationships.
• 43:45
  I guess I'll wrap up this podcast with some responsibilities
• 43:49
  that if you're
• 43:51
  building out your marketing team and you're going to hire more
• 43:53
  than one person,
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: you can hire whoever you want.
• 43:56
  You can do something cool and creative with your marketing and
• 43:59
  hire a video person
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: if you're going to be a specialist in video.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hire the referral person if you're going to go after referrals heavy.
• 44:07
  But maybe you just want to do something totally different and
• 44:10
  you can hire whoever
• 44:13
  you want to fill that role as long as you're clear about what
• 44:17
  that role is and what
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: it's supposed to do,
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: which is key to all of this.
• 44:21
  If you're hiring for a marketing role,
• 44:24
  it really behooves you to understand
• 44:27
  what type of marketer you're hiring and what their tasks and
• 44:32
  responsibilities will be.
• 44:33
  Because one big issue I see is we put out a job description and
• 44:38
  it's so generalized.
• 44:43
  If you want to hire a marketing manager,
• 44:46
  let's say you want to get your first marketing hire,
• 44:49
  I think the biggest favor you could do yourself is go to your
• 44:52
  job description and
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: strike anything about SEO or PPC off that list.
• 44:56
  Because as soon as you put SEO or PPC on a job description,
• 45:00
  you're going to get a ton of spam.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of companies selling that to do that on behalf of your business.
• 45:06
  And then you're going to get maybe people who are really
• 45:09
  looking for a specialist
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: like PPC SEO role,
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: but they see your job and say,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: let's give it a shot.
• 45:18
  And then it happens too often,
• 45:20
  like business owners see,
• 45:21
  oh,
• 45:21
  you're a Google ads expert.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, damn.
• 45:24
  Like I could hire you and you could run all my Google ads and
• 45:27
  we could all make a ton of money.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with SEO.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you have experience in SEO?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, we can bring SEO in-house.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need to pay this expensive agency.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, unless that is fully their job, like unless their job is 100%
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: PPC and I'm even hesitant to say 100% SEO.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you should bring SEO in-house.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you should bring PPC in-house is what I'm getting at.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because one,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: you may find an out of work PPC specialist,
• 46:00
  but I doubt you're going to pay them the kind of salary that
• 46:02
  they would probably
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: get doing this kind of work for an agency.
• 46:08
  And then a lot of PPC specialists could probably make a good
• 46:11
  bit of money as media buyers.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: I did that for a little while.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was a media buyer for hotels.
• 46:18
  And you can make more money doing that than you could probably
• 46:22
  being a PPC
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: specialist for a law firm.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so you end up attracting people who work at your job,
• 46:30
  work at your company for a few weeks and then go on to the job
• 46:34
  that they really
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: wanted,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: which is a full time SEO or full time PPC job.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I would take those out of your job description entirely.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these days I'm
• 46:44
  like not sure in-house marketing team should even bother
• 46:49
  writing blog content
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: unless they're writing 100% original thought,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: no ChatGPT needed,
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: this is unique.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you even need somebody who can write
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: optimize SEO articles.
• 47:04
  I'm just not sure how important that's going to be for an
• 47:07
  in-house team to do in the future.
• 47:10
  Back five years ago,
• 47:11
  even if you had an SEO team,
• 47:12
  you might publish blogs kind of casually.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you just had an idea for an article.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: SEO company didn't have the bandwidth to write at that month.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: You assign it to your marketer and they did it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we did that a lot back in the day.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it made sense,
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: because if you could publish more content on a website,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: then you could have the potential to be more competitive.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: But the game has changed so much with ChatGPT.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And more blog content on your website,
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: particularly if it's blog content written by ChatGPT,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's not going to get you much.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you may not even need your person to do that.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe take off blog writing.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, you know what?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Keep it.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll,
• 47:52
  I'll walk that back because it's really nice to have marketers
• 47:55
  who are good at
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: storytelling.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if they were like writing, I, you know, I like them.
• 47:59
  Like that's just my shortcut to firing good or finding good
• 48:03
  marketing hires is
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: finding people who are really good at writing.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: but you know,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: if you're gonna hire for any type of like niche specialist,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: don't hire for PPC,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: in-house PPC,
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: don't hire in-house SEO.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need those skills in house.
• 48:22
  You can hire an agency with a full team of experts who have
• 48:26
  done this for other
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: people who can do it a thousand percent better than you can.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with SEO.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can grow your marketing team however you want at this point.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: But as long as you have
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: people who can execute, people who can do the work.
• 48:43
  And you also either you're doing it or you have somebody come
• 48:47
  in as leadership and
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: guide your team to completing these projects,
• 48:52
  making sure they get done and also having them internally build
• 48:56
  processes for
• 48:57
  everything that eventually turn your marketing department into
• 49:02
  like an engine,
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: an engine that generates leads for your business.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I was more poetic.
• 49:08
  But the best marketing teams are people using systems and
• 49:14
  processes to get an outcome.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: The architect of those systems and processes,
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: you or your fractional CMO or your CMO,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: is really important because without that architect,
• 49:27
  without the person with the vision who knows how to put it all
• 49:30
  together and how to
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: make it all work together,
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: and also what's working for other businesses,
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's invaluable.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I talked about how to build a marketing department before.
• 49:43
  And if you're interested in listening to that talk that I gave
• 49:47
  at the 2024 GLM Summit.
• 49:50
  So I'm actually going to send you to a different podcast to see
• 49:52
  that full recording.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Go to Brian Glass's Life Beyond the Briefs.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was a few episodes back.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: I could probably look it up,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: but you'll see Tiffany Swedensky's talk from the GLM Summit,
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think is the title.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I pretty much go through the same things I went on this podcast,
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: but if you want a little more information,
• 50:11
  and plus I don't remember exactly all the things I talked about
• 50:14
  at that event,
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: visit the podcast and hear the recording.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been very lucky.
• 50:20
  Since I launched Sharp Cookie about three years ago,
• 50:23
  I pretty much had a full book of clients.
• 50:26
  And in the last six,
• 50:27
  actually in the last like two years,
• 50:29
  I've only onboarded one other person.
• 50:32
  And I basically onwarded new clients as we've had the bandwidth
• 50:35
  to take them.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: And after talking with a lot of attorneys these last few years,
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I really wanted to home in on what law firms need from a fractional CMO.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I actually created a lower tier of my original fractional CMO program.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: In my original fractional CMO program,
• 50:56
  we're only working with law firms that have existing teams and
• 51:02
  we're more plugged
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: into what they do.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm meeting with them weekly, the team members and law firm owners.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing a lot of tracking and reporting each week.
• 51:12
  Then my team helps execute on the tasks that the in-house team
• 51:16
  isn't able to get to themselves.
• 51:18
  That typically includes a lot of technical tasks or video
• 51:24
  editing or specialist
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: things that maybe they don't have the in-house talent to do at the time,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: but we could backfill and do some of that work.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: But that's my executive tier program.
• 51:35
  And a lot of attorneys I've talked to say they'd be interested
• 51:39
  in having us come in
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: and lead their team,
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: but just on a lesser engagement level and cheaper level,
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: to tell you the truth.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I put together a new tier of my fractional CMO program.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the advisor tier.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're actually formally launching the advisor tier this week.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: This episode will be aired sometime on or around August 1st, 2025.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll have opened the program by then.
• 52:07
  You'll be able to visit SharpCookieDev and learn more about our
• 52:10
  fractional CMO
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: programs,
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: the executive tier and the advisor tier.
• 52:15
  And right now we're looking to bring on some law firms on the
• 52:19
  advisor tier.
• 52:20
  And so if you're interested and you want to learn more about
• 52:23
  working with me and
• 52:24
  working with my team and having us coach your team and train
• 52:29
  them on not just what
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: to do,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: but how to do it.
• 52:33
  Me and my team have a library of hundreds of how to guides on
• 52:38
  how to complete
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: various marketing tasks,
• 52:41
  things like from setting up Facebook campaigns to doing
• 52:45
  complicated like email or
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: semi complicated Zapier automations for marketing attribution.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're also continually making marketing plans and programs
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: for our clients.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times we take well,
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: almost all the times we take these programs that we make for our clients,
• 53:05
  these marketing plans and make them available to our other
• 53:08
  fractional CMO clients
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: who need similar programs or similar marketing strategies.
• 53:14
  And so that's one thing that's one benefit of working with a
• 53:17
  fractional CMO that I
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: always like to kind of emphasize is that,
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: yes,
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm somebody working with a few different firms,
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: but also
• 53:26
  you're getting the shared experiences and the shared work and
• 53:31
  the shared planning
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: that we're doing,
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: not just for one client,
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: but for all of them.
• 53:36
  And so if we're working with somebody and we hit on something
• 53:39
  that really works,
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: that everyone should try and that's new,
• 53:43
  we're going to implement it or try to implement it with all of
• 53:45
  our other law firms.
• 53:47
  And so that's what I like about being a fractional is sometimes
• 53:50
  like you just have
• 53:51
  to make one thing and that one thing works really well for five
• 53:55
  or six different
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: people.
• 53:57
  And it's how we can be effective at delivering good marketing
• 54:01
  leadership to the law firms.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so the advisor tier is open.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: We potentially could take on another executive tier client,
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: but at this time,
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: we're mainly open at the advisor tier level.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're interested and you want to learn more,
• 54:17
  I have a handy URL where you can just contact me directly and
• 54:22
  get a time on my
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: calendar.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: talktotif.com, that's T-A-L-K-T-O-T-I-F.com.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that will take you actually kind of to my link tree,
• 54:35
  but you'll find a link there where you can schedule a time to
• 54:38
  talk with me and
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: learn more about maybe how we can work together.
• 54:43
  um otherwise thank you guys so much for tuning in and listening
• 54:46
  this podcast
• 54:47
  episode i hope you hope you got something from it um don't
• 54:50
  forget to follow sharp
• 54:52
  strategies sweet success also you can check out sharp cookie on
• 54:57
  substack that link
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: is also available at talktotiff.com
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want more information like this each week on Substack,
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: I publish a totally unique,
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: totally written by me article.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're never going to find it anywhere else.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: You won't get ChatGPT to generate it for you because I make it.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And go there and you can see all of the new content,
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: all of the new how-tos and informational articles and guides that.
• 55:25
  And honestly,
• 55:26
  I love writing for Substack more than I like writing for
• 55:28
  anything else.
• 55:29
  So if you want to see me at my best,
• 55:32
  visit Substack and get signed up as a subscriber there.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise,
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: thank you guys so much for listening to Sherp Strategies Sweet Success,
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll see you in the next episode.