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Overcoming Uncertainty: A Special Solo Episode with Reno · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:09
  Welcome to another episode of the Gay Men Going Deeper podcast. I am your co host, Reno, and today is a special solo episode.
• 0:20
  And I haven't actually recorded a number of solo episodes. This might be my first solo episode on the podcast and I'm coming to you from a bathroom in beautiful Bali.
• 0:36
  And I'm a bit sick as well. And all of this just seems so fitting given the content of today's conversation. You know, this is a great context, given the content of today's conversation.
• 0:52
  Why? Because we're going to have a conversation about navigating times of uncertainty and instability and tapping into our innate wisdom and well being and insightfulness and discernment and intuition and courage and audacity and creativity and resourcefulness.
• 1:16
  And I guess I'll set the stage by saying that, you know, this is.
• 1:22
  This conversation may be informative and educational in the sense that you will potentially learn something from this conversation if you haven't already within the first 90 seconds or so.
• 1:37
  But it's not meant to be educational necessarily. Like, I'm not speaking to you as an expert now.
• 1:46
  Maybe some would say, oh, Reno, this is so your arena. You really are an expert, and thank you for that. But I'm not coming from that place. I'm speaking from lived experience. Right. So let me start by saying, forgive me, as I mentioned, I'm a bit sick. You can hear it. I'm a bit congested.
• 2:06
  And also, as I'm recording this episode, I'm actually recording it later than I had intended to because upon arriving to Bali, my laptop stopped working, I got sick, and then I'm. I'm sick again now, and I really had to pivot multiple times. There were just a number of different curveballs and unexpected things that have come up. And I want to talk a bit about that because I don't know about you, but it seems as if, and not just seems it. I would say we are living in uncertain times. We are living in unstable times. We are living in challenging times, whether that's like, personally and individually or as a collective. You know, we hear so much about the wars that are happening in the world and, and the atrocities that are happening in the world and, you know, the backsliding that's happening around LGBTQ rights, for example, the economic instability and the uncertainty around the future and the futures of each of us. Now, let me say this isn't new, right? Because if I were to speak from a spiritual perspective, what I would say is that if we really look at life, the only thing that is certain is this moment right? And there is an ephemeral and impermanent nature to existence, right? Through the cosmos, through the entire universe. There is life and death, you know, and birth. There's, you know, we have spring and then we have summer, and then we have fall and then we have winter, right? We have the seasons.
• 4:02
  Stars are born and then they explode and implode, right? People are born and then they pass and the sun goes up and it goes down, and days come and they go, and moments come and they go. And let me invite you for just a moment to slow down and reflect on the number of times that you've been in a situation that is unfamiliar or a situation where you are uncertain of how you're going to get out of it or navigate it or move through it, or move beyond it or deal with it and look at where you are now.
• 4:38
  I often speak to and point to this through line of grace in each of our lives. And we may not see it in the moment, but if we look back on our lives, what we can see, see throughout our lives, there have been many moments, many joys and many challenges.
• 4:56
  And within each of those moments and those experiences, right? We found a way through.
• 5:02
  And you're here now listening to this conversation, right? Engaging in this conversation. We are here together in this moment because you made it through and you continue to make it through. And I really think that that is worth not discounting and in fact, really appreciating and taking the time to reflect on. And I say that because I think so often in these moments when we're presented with adversity and uncertainty, we forget how powerful we are, and we forget that there are forces working in our favor to grow us through these moments of uncertainty and instability and adversity, to guide us through these moments, to support us through these moments and to bless us through these moments, you know, and we needn't look any further than our own lives and our lived experience to see that that has been the case. And I'm not denying that your situation may be uniquely challenging.
• 6:15
  I'm not denying that there's grief and pain and suffering and adversity and atrocity in the world.
• 6:23
  This isn't an attempt at being delusionally optimistic or positive, right?
• 6:33
  The invitation here is to really look at how far we've come and what we're capable of.
• 6:40
  You know, there are generations, like, through. Let's just look at the HIV AIDS epidemic, right?
• 6:48
  Or let's look at movements like slavery or, sorry, feminism, or situations like slavery and anti Anti slavery movements, right? I mean, the list goes on and on and on.
• 7:02
  But what we've seen throughout time, what we continue to see throughout time is that we prevail. You know, we find a way, we find a way to move through adversity, we find a way to move through adversity and we find a way to overcome and become greater as a result of these experiences that we, that we find ourselves having these difficult experiences.
• 7:31
  So I'll share a story. I'm in Bali for the third time and the first time I was here for 12 days for a retreat. I met an Australian. We became close and he had invited the group of us to a house he had found because he had gone on the retreat the year previously and wanted to invite people back to a house if they want to stay longer. And so he found this beautiful house and I stayed in it for three days and I thought, oh my God, this is amazing.
• 8:03
  I get what you're up to here. And someone had said, how do we live like this forever?
• 8:09
  And so we went over to the chalkboard and we wrote that question on the chalkboard and I already had the answer in my mind. I thought I knew exactly how to monetize this, how to extend this experience, but I have to go back to Canada and so I'll do that. But I will also help curate and create this vision. Right, Because I got it right away. I said, I see what you're trying to do. So I came back a second time and we ran this experience called the Thrive Hive. And it was this co living, co working experience in Bali. We ran that for a couple of months, but I was here for a total, I think a few months actually. But I was here for a total of six months.
• 8:55
  And so it wasn't until maybe about nine or ten years after that, just recently, I finally returned to Bali. And I've been here for nearly two months now.
• 9:08
  And as I mentioned earlier, upon arrival.
• 9:13
  So let me actually backtrack a little bit here because I was thrown some curve balls even before I got here, right. There were things that I had to sort out and deal with with regard to the house that I was living in and my housemates and, you know, booking flights. And to be honest, that was fairly simple.
• 9:36
  I sold off my furniture and downsized to a few bins and packed my luggage and, and said goodbye to this place that I had lived in for the last four years that had, you know, for all intents and purposes, it was the first place that I really felt was ever my home.
• 9:55
  And I think there's something important in speaking to that experience as well. Because if we're talking about uncertainty and adversity and instability and change, and, you know, someone who is curious about that experience and that process or who's considering it might ask, like, well, how the heck did you do that? Like, what was it like? And what I can tell you is that I am ever skilled in following my intuition and listening to my body.
• 10:25
  And so when my intuition said, it's time to go, I said, okay. And I don't always do it, but I do it more often than not.
• 10:37
  And so the process began.
• 10:40
  And it's not for the faint of heart. It takes courage. Because ultimately what's happening is if you've experienced this, you're getting this sort of, like, sensation, this pull or something. Like, maybe it's a vision or a feeling or maybe it's audible, but you're getting something, some sensation, some occurrence within you that is guiding you in a direction that your mind immediately tries to rationalize but can't because it doesn't make sense because it came from some deeper other place.
• 11:15
  And then in that moment, you get to decide, like, to say yes or no. And what I've seen is often when I ignore it, it's to my detriment.
• 11:26
  So I say yes.
• 11:28
  Now, what it also asks of you is that in a way, you either suspend rationale and rationality, if you will, in the traditional and conventional sense, that is because this is actually the most rational thing you can be engaged in and up to, and that you. You trust in what's there and you enter into the mystery.
• 11:56
  And so that's what I did.
• 11:58
  I said, okay, let's go. And I. I started selling my things and downsizing my life. And again, you may ask, well, what was. Okay, so you've done that now. Like, what was that like? What does that look like? It's like, oh, well, you put them on Marketplace and you start selling them, and you start saying goodbye to them. And.
• 12:18
  And you.
• 12:19
  You know, you navigate the letting go of comforts, and you. You take deep breaths and you cry and you talk to friends and you process and you feel as you let go of thing after thing after thing, down to your final plant, the one you bought because it reminded you of the place you're going. Bali. And you cry because you love it and because you're finally going. You know, that's what it looks like. You grieve and you feel and you breathe and you.
• 12:55
  You be and you reach out all of those things you know, and you dig deep.
• 13:02
  And so, you know, I sell off my things and I narrow my life down to a few bins, and I giggle because there's. There's more to come.
• 13:16
  And the day that I'm leaving finally comes. And that day was beautiful and difficult. I spend the majority of that day with one of my dear friends, and, you know, we're sort of exploring and enjoying food and connecting and, you know, moving through Vancouver a little bit before I go. And then we go back to the house, and, you know, the grief and the anxiousness starts to set in a bit because I'm like, I'm leaving tonight, you know, and in my final moments, I'm scurrying about to make sure everything's in order before I go.
• 13:49
  And I'm having to breathe through that process. And in the moments when I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm having to stop and just sit and take a breath, you know, slow down to speed up, right? And maybe ask for help or just someone to be around me, you know, in the space with me as I figure things out. To be honest, I was alone, more alone than I thought I would be as I'm planning this departure. And that was also really sort of beautiful and poetic and difficult because you know what? It helped me realize what I saw was like, oh, we are so alone and so not alone all at once.
• 14:34
  And so in that I had to sit with and be with myself and everything that came up as I reached these final moments in this house I had lived in for four years with these people I had lived with for a year or a number of years, right? Some of them were new, some of them were older and feel everything that I was feeling. The excitement, the nervousness, the grief, the sadness, all of it. And then say goodbye.
• 15:06
  So I. I get to Bali, right? I fly. I fly to Bali.
• 15:11
  And of course, on my way here, like, I'm in new territory. I land in China, and I'm there for a layover for, like, 17 and a half hours. And so, you know, I find the VIP lounge, and I. I, like, hang out there, eat there, rest there, read there, you know, and I'm in this new territory. So, like, I don't speak the language. And, you know, there's all this. It's really edgy, like, I don't know about you, but even when I travel, sometimes it's like I think some pretty dark thoughts as far as, like, things that could happen to me. And, you know, I grew up and still to this day navigate obsessive compulsive disorder. And so one of the. One of the aspects of ocd, which is, you know, like, stems from trauma, is repetitive, irrational, and really kind of scary, like, thoughts of things happening.
• 16:07
  And so I've just learned to live with that. And so there are situations, especially where there's instability or uncertainty or insecurity that will, like, trigger it. Because, in essence, that's kind of where it comes from. It comes from me having grown up in an environment that was, like, really unstable and sometimes unsafe. And that's a whole other conversation. But I think that's part of what has made me so resilient and has strengthened my capacity to live the way that I do unconventionally and intuitively and resilient, resiliently, is that, you know, everything was constantly unstable and constantly changing and frequently unsafe. And, you know, I just.
• 16:56
  I figured out how to be here in all of that, and it became my superpower, you know, one of my superpowers.
• 17:06
  And so that's what you tap into when you're on these adventures, you know, when uncertainty rears its head, when instability rears its head. And so that's what I was tapping into as I'm leaving Canada and I'm in China, and then I'm in Bali, and I arrive, and my laptop stops working.
• 17:32
  So I'm like, how am I going to work?
• 17:36
  And then I get sick.
• 17:38
  So I'm down and out for, like, two.
• 17:41
  Two days, three days, right? With a terrible stomach ache. Like, just. I mean, I was practically sleeping in the toilet the first night. You know, it was. Oh, it was terrible.
• 17:54
  And then I had a situation with my tooth. And so I've been having dental work done here.
• 18:00
  And, you know, my laptop still didn't get fixed. And so, you know, I had to find a way to pivot around that. And luckily, I have a friend here who provided me with a desk space and computer to be able to use.
• 18:13
  And so, again, like, we just pivot. We figure it out, you know, and if this wasn't available to me, I would have found another way. Right?
• 18:23
  Because we do. We do what we need to do. And here's what I want to say. This is really important, because if you think that doing what you need to do and figuring it out needs to come from you and, like, your will and you making it happen, I think sometimes that can feel really overwhelming and burdensome. And so I'm not saying that that isn't the case, but what I'm inviting you to reflect on is that there's a possibility that these solutions and this place from which we are able to move through and overcome adversity isn't actually so much something we do or make happen as it is like a, A place within us that emerges and is activated in the face of its counterpart or something like that. Right?
• 19:19
  And so I think this is helpful because if you find yourself wondering, well, what if this happens? How are we going to deal with this? And it's like, well, well, from a spiritual perspective and even a human one, what I'm pointing to here is the fact that you probably wondered that same thing every other time something came up and then something inside of you arose and helped you get through that thing and the next thing and the next thing. And that's what I'm pointing to in this conversation, you know, on this podcast.
• 19:53
  And even after we're recording, sometimes me and the guys will talk and we'll have these conversations about, like, I don't know, just we'll reflect on the podcast and the conversation.
• 20:04
  And one of the things that comes up frequently is that I'm so meta, right? Like I, I'm always taking like a hundred foot view or I'm often speaking from a real sort of spiritual place and also like a human grounded one for sure, right? But I, I bring a lot of unique perspectives that are not so critical and more spiritual.
• 20:26
  And I gotta be honest, like, it's this awareness, this spiritual awareness, this capacity for spiritual discernment that has really been at the, almost at the core of, of why I'm able to navigate and deal with such uncertainty and unconventionality and instability of my life.
• 20:51
  And don't get me wrong, like, it's a bit much for me even sometimes I'm like, oh my God, what is my life? It's just constantly surprising me and there's constantly so much happening, like, what, what is this? I would like a break.
• 21:07
  And I do, I do. I get those breaks. I do get those breaks, right? And also, like, I'm built for this.
• 21:14
  And I see that, and I see that you are too. And again, you might ask me, well, how do you know? Well, because you're here.
• 21:22
  Because you're here, my love.
• 21:24
  That's how I know it's really that simple for me. You know, I see it, I see it. I see you.
• 21:32
  I see you day in and day out, waking up, beginning anew, showing up, listening to these podcast episodes and showing up to the, you know, our group calls and doing the work, you know, doing the work, excavating your life and your history and your inner world to have a more optimal experience of this life, right? Like I. I see you, you're here listening right now because you value growth, because you are built for this life, you know, And I could say I believe in you and that that is true.
• 22:16
  And more than that, I just know what I've seen.
• 22:20
  I just look at what I've seen.
• 22:22
  I point to what makes sense to me, and what occurs to me. And what occurs to me is that we are here, you are here despite and in spite of perhaps adversity, you know, and everything you've been through.
• 22:39
  So let me slow down here for a second and just check in and maybe you do the same. Like, what have you taken from this conversation so far? What stands out to you?
• 22:50
  Where are you feeling in this moment and what might need your attention or be calling you that maybe you're more willing to say yes to now, given the fact that you've become more aware that you are built for this, that you are built for whatever calls you and is calling you.
• 23:10
  You know, the theme this month is emotional intelligence. And I'm very energetically intelligent, right? Like, emotion is energy in motion. And I'm very emotionally aware, very emotionally intelligent. It's how I operate. Often say, say I'm feeling my way through life more than I'm thinking it.
• 23:31
  And, you know, people will often ask me, like, well, how did you. How did you know? Or how did you. How did you. And I'm like, well, I felt, you know, I'm feeling my way through life.
• 23:42
  And sometimes that means that, I don't know, I come across, like, delusional or something like that. And I'm. I'm okay with that because I don't need to know. And I do know. I just know in a different way, right? And we often discount the intelligence of our. Our emotions, of our energy, of our feeling. And I, I think, again, that's to our detriment.
• 24:09
  My body has told me when it's time to leave a situation or enter one, when it's time to exercise or slow down, when it's time to push or not.
• 24:25
  And I can recall many moments where I would disregard that and I would learn, you know, what do they say? Fuck around, find out.
• 24:35
  So I would fuck around and I would find out, you know, and what that looked like was, let's say, for example, I would push myself when my body was saying stop. And then my back would give out and I wouldn't even be able to work out for like the next week or two, right? And it's like, gosh, well, there we go. I better listen. Or I would get like this prompt to do something or not do something. And I would. If it was to do something, I would maybe not do it. Or if it was to not do something, I would do it. And then there would be repercussions. And I don't believe in a punishing universe or punishing God or whatever you believe in, Right. Like, I believe that we are learning and, you know, those things don't happen as a punishment. Like, oh, you didn't listen. And therefore, you know, you are being punished. No, no, no. It's just information.
• 25:32
  We give it that meaning, but it doesn't have to mean that. It can just mean we've experienced something and we've learned something and we're figuring things out as we go. You know, it doesn't have to be, oh, you're being punished, you know, so I'm going to slow down again.
• 25:53
  I think the invitation here is to consider that there's an intelligent force at work in the universe.
• 26:02
  It's the same intelligent force that would have an acorn become an oak tree, right? And have that blueprint for the oak tree exists within the acorn and have nature, being an intelligent expression of that greater intelligence, come together and conspire to grow that acorn into that oak tree, right? It's the same thing that is responsible for birth and life and death and, you know, nature and all of these things that we miss, the mundane things that are actually, like, so miraculous and magical in everyday life, right? Like, if you really slow down and look around you, you're living in a miracle, and you are a living miracle. And I think that is really what I'm wanting to point to in this conversation is that there's an intelligence at work in everything, including you and transcending you, right? In the universe, this intelligence includes and transcends you.
• 27:14
  And when you remember that, when you're aware of that and attuned to that notice, like, I describe it as a feeling or a sensation akin to when you're lying in the water.
• 27:28
  Like, imagine so I'm next to saltwater right now.
• 27:32
  And when you lay in the ocean, you take a deep breath and you lay back, you can float and you're carried by this, you know, this. This water and this breath. And it feels a lot like that. This knowing feels a lot like that. Like, wow, there's something here.
• 27:54
  That despite adversity, despite uncertainty, despite instability, despite everything that's happening in the world right now, there's an okayness that I can connect to within myself.
• 28:10
  There's an intelligence at work that includes and transcends me.
• 28:15
  And I want to speak to the okayness as well, because that's something we cultivate.
• 28:22
  And really what I want to say is it's something we cultivate, but it's something that exists. What we cultivate is the journey to that place, let's call it home.
• 28:33
  And if we're speaking sort of scientifically, right, it's like. Or clinically even, there are neural pathways.
• 28:41
  And so as we practice that return to that okayness, with every moment we're pulled out of it or we're shaken or instability or uncertainty arises, we become even more equipped to return to that place.
• 28:58
  Our capacity to meet those moments becomes deepened and strengthened.
• 29:03
  And so, you know, when they arise, we get to see them as blessings in disguise, right? Because what happens is it's like these moments come up, and then we breathe and we meet them. And that intelligence and, you know, all of that which you are, that includes and transcends you, presents itself and moves you through that moment, and you find yourself on the other side of it, and you are greater because of it, you know, and you have once again walked that path home. So you're like. You're beating a path, and neurologically you're doing the same thing. You're kind of like rewiring and creating new neural pathways. Right? It's scientific. It's not just spiritual.
• 29:45
  It's all connected. This is all connected. You know, I know I'm a bit all over the place in some ways, but this is why we practice, you know, this is why we practice breathing and breath work, why we meditate, why we go for walks, why we spend time in nature. Revering. Right, Revering nature and its intelligence and beauty.
• 30:09
  This thing that functions with beautiful harmoniousness and intelligence and grace and also like grit. It's wild and raw and, you know, but we're part of that. We're part of that. And when we remember that and when we practice, it becomes so much easier because we're not. We don't lose sight of that which we are.
• 30:35
  And in those moments that we do, again, they're a blessing in disguise because they're an invitation to remember who you are and where you are and where you come from, where you've been, what you've been through and how you got here.
• 30:51
  Growing up, I come from a family history of addiction, and there was addiction in my family, abuse in my family, physical abuse, sexual abuse.
• 31:01
  You know, like, we were poor in different moments, I've had the utilities, like we had the utilities cut off. We didn't know where food was going to come from. I mean, there have been moments, you know, and really beautiful ones too. This isn't. There's a lot of love in my story and my family history. And there's also a lot, a lot, a lot of trauma and adversity and difficulty. And as a child, you know, I experienced a lot of difficulty.
• 31:31
  There's the stuff that was happening at home and then when I left home, there was, you know, everything I had to deal with. Out in the world is this sensitive, queer, black male bodied person and who felt more like a, I don't know, a little princess than a prince or a king or, you know, I also felt like a warrior. I definitely had that fight in me because I had to. You know, I was just crying the other night at dinner with my friend because, you know, I was sharing that. Sometimes I felt envious of people who could be so, so sensitive and so like an advocate for their needs.
• 32:14
  And I don't know, like, it was hard for me to see because I thought, like, how nice for you. I just had to kind of get by, you know.
• 32:23
  But what that's helped me realize is that it's actually okay for me to be sensitive. It's okay for me to advocate for my knees. It's okay for me to be human, to feel.
• 32:37
  But the reason I bring all of this up is because, like I said, I've been dealing with adversity and uncertainty and instability in my entire life. And you know, I could, I could make that mean that the universe is malevolent and, and just out to get me. And everything is out to get me. And trust me, sometimes I slip into that, you know, sometimes I slip into that. But mostly I'm focused on the benevolence of this world and this universe and the grace and the fact that someone like me, who kind of easily been a statistic and in some ways you could say, has no business living the life that I've lived. And being in Bali right now, is in Bali right now and has lived the life that I've lived, you know, become the person that I've become.
• 33:29
  And the same is true for you in your own ways.
• 33:33
  Look at where you are, look at how far you've come. And you may have reached a point in your life where things are still difficult and they may have been difficult and also look how far you've come.
• 33:45
  Where do we go from here? You know, And I Think, really looking at that, you know, how far you've come and then also like where you'd love to go.
• 33:56
  Not the default circumstantial version of your life or answer to that question, but like in your heart of hearts, what is the more beautiful life, the more beautiful world, the more beautiful you, your heart knows is possible? And how are you keeping that up? And how can you begin to shift your focus and your attention in the direction of that, trusting that even if you don't know the how or you're concerned, some part of you is like, oh, but what if this and what if that? Well, just like everything else, you'll figure it out. It'll figure itself out, right? Because you are that intelligence I speak of that emerges. Can you trust that? Can you surrender to that and let that do its thing beyond your limited thinking and capacity, your perception of your capacity. Right.
• 34:53
  So I'm slowing down now to see if there's anything else that I'd like to say to complete lead the conversation.
• 34:59
  Just that that I hope this conversation has. Has been of value to you and that you've taken some things away from it and that you. That you know again that there is a grace and intelligent force that includes and transcends you, that you are, and you are part of that is at work in your life right now and in every moment.
• 35:23
  And that it. It exists for your evolution, in service to your evolution and your enjoyment, you know, joys and challenges.
• 35:32
  And that it has been at work and it will be at work, and that you are that.
• 35:38
  And when you begin to see that and settle into that, that grace, life gets really interesting.
• 35:47
  Life gets really interesting. You know, I'm speaking from experience. I mean, look where I am. And I'll be in Australia on Friday, and then I'll be in Thailand after that. And it's been wild. Oh, and I left out an important part, which is my house burned down and the bins that were in the house are torched. The entire house burned down.
• 36:11
  So all I have now is what I have with me. And I can't believe I almost forgot to mention that, because the time so important. It's like, well, I've grieved, I've cried. That was really hard. And I will begin again and I will build again, you know, wherever that is. And for now, it's right here. I've learned to find home in myself and in wherever I am and to work with what I've got, which is, you know, my phone and my little mic and my regular podcast. Mic went up in the fire and so did my neon light and all these other keepsakes and clothes and things. Like, you know, the bins that I had left, they're gone. I have what I have. And did I cry? Yes. Has there been grief? Yes. Has it been difficult? Yes. And also, we are built for this, right? We carry on. We carry on, and we don't bypass the feelings. We don't bypass the grief and the difficulty. You know, we share it, we nurture it, we honor it, and then we continue, right? And that is continuing honoring it.
• 37:19
  So I think that's a great note to maybe end on. Like, I know it's a bit, like, a bit edgy, but I'm okay, you know, and so.
• 37:30
  So too, will. Will we be. As usual, thank you for tuning in. This community would not be what it is without you, you know, and so if nothing else, like, know that you are impactful simply by being here, you know, in this world and in this community and listening and tuning in, and you are doing the work by being here, and you are contributing by being here and listening and being a part of this community. So we love you. We value you. I love you. I value you. And, you know, until next time, please, you know, continue listening, continue showing up to our free meetups, and, you know, become a member of the community, whatever it is you need to do to get the most out of this experience. Engage, interact, share, connect, you know, and spread the love.
• 38:22
  And until next time, we are here, you are okay.