Latest / Legal Late Night / Broadway Trivia, Legal Ethics, & The "Mr. Hankey" Christmas Special

Transcript

Broadway Trivia, Legal Ethics, & The "Mr. Hankey" Christmas Special · Legal Late Night

• Jared Correia (00:00:00): Hello everybody. We've got a show that promises to be at least mildly interesting for your listening and watching enjoyment. I'm your host Jared Correia. I'm the CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting. From my monologue, I have a list of quirky Christmas characters to make sure your stocking is chock full for the holidays. In the interview, I've got father-daughter combo Keith and Kara Shannon. He's a paralegal instructor. She's an actor. They're related. In the counter program, I let Keith and Kara take over so I have no earthly idea what the fuck is going to happen. I guess we'll all find out together. Now, let's do Weird Christmas. (00:00:45): I want to talk to you about weird Christmas movie characters or shows. So I pulled together a list. In no particular order, I've got eight. But first, I wanted to mention the movie The Family Stone from 2005, which I've never actually seen. I was talking to my friend Josh Nofki the other day and he suggested that an underrated Christmas movie character would be Thad Stone from the movie The Family Stone played by Tyrone Gordano, who I'd never heard of before. He's a deaf gay man in this movie. And he is actually a deaf actor, which is pretty interesting. You don't see that too often. Kind of like Theo from Only Murders in the Buildings who's also deaf. But I looked up this movie and I don't know if it's good, but it's got a crazy cast. It's got Rachel McAdams, Regina George herself from Mean Girls, which came out in the same year as a notebook, which I didn't realize until I was looking this up. (00:01:43): And she also played Irene Adler, a secondary antagonist in the Guy Richie Sherlock Holmes movie sequel, A Game of Shadows, which is a great fucking movie if you haven't seen it. It's got Sarah Jessica Barker, Carrie Bradshaw and Sarah Sanderson from Hocus Pocus. The recently deceased Diane Keaton of Woody Allen godfather and hat wearing fame. Then you got Craig T. Nelson, Coach. Mr. Incredible. The Dan on Parenthood. Luke Wilson. Richie Tennenbaum himself. Mitch from old school. And then for the back row, Paul Schneider, who played Mark Brandanowitz from Parks and Recreation. Remember that? He was on the show for two years and then they booted him and then the show got good. And he also played a guy named Dick Little in the assassination of Jesse James by the cow Robert Ford. Dick Little Yikes. Dermot Maroone, Claire Danes, Elizabeth Reeser. Maybe I'll watch this. (00:02:42): Number eight. On my official list of weird Christmas characters. Mr. Hanke, the Christmas poo from South Park. Appearing many years ago in season one, episode nine. Mr. Hanke voiced by Trey Parker with his catchphrase, Howdy Ho, as he crawls into the toilet bowl. He's a recurring character. Wikipedia describes him as a sentient piece of feces. I guess that covers it. They've got the part that he wears Sand Claus hat. He's the conductor for a perverse version of the Polar Express train made entirely of shit called the Poochew Express. He has family of other poos. His wife is an alcoholic who occasionally reveals that Mr. Hanke suffers from erectile dysfunction. Don't ask. Sometimes he's nutty. Sometimes he's corny. He can be brown or greenish brown, but if you eat fiber on Christmas Eve, he might come to your town. Number seven. Matt Trent played by John Ham, Don Draper himself from the White Christmas episode of Black Mirror, one of my favorite shows, season two episode four. (00:04:01): This is a 2014 Christmas special of Black Mirror. And if you want a real downer, you should watch this episode. It's three stories in one. So the first story is Don Draper playing the Sereno de Bergerac type of character where he's using this Google glass device to lead this wayward gentleman in his quest to find a real lady. So he gets the girl, but unfortunately she kills him and herself in a murder suicide plot. So that does not go down well. In the meantime, Matt is also working in training human clones who become digital assistants to the humans that they were cloned from. Yes. Black Mirror is kind of a fucked up show if you haven't figured that part out yet. So the third story, which ties everything together is he's punished by the authorities for his little kind of hitch game that he's running, where he's trying to help these other guys find ladies and one of them is killed as mentioned. (00:05:15): And so he's with another guy and he is trying to get this guy to confess to a murder. They're using his skills to do that. So he gets him to do that. And in the end, he is awarded with no prison time, but he is blocked by everyone he knows in his life through a technology that turns people that don't want to see you into black grayish blobs before your eyes. Gray forums as it were. So we've got some allegory of the cave shit going on. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't even attempted this because it sounds so weird, but just trust me. If you watch Black Mirror, I won't sound like as much of lunatic. All right. Let's get to something I can actually explain. Number six, Gremlins. 1984. The Gremlins. You know Gizmo, not Rudolph, The Good Gremlin and Stripe, the leader of the bad gremlins. (00:06:20): But what about the other gremlins from the movie? Does anyone remember the Flasher Gremlin? Yes, he's a Gremlin with a trench coat that he opens to reveal an entire lack of anatomy. Yes, he's penisless as a Ken doll. Then who could forget the three caroling gremlins? They come to the old lady's house. They're fucking terrible singers, by the way, but they're just a distraction so the gremlin in the house can rig the lady's chairlift to shoot through the upstairs window to her death. And then the gremlin that got microwaved by the main character's mom. I remember that vividly. It was really a traumatic incident from my childhood. Gremlins is a deeply fucked up movie, by the way. Don't get me started on what happens to Phoebe Kate's dad, but it is decidedly a Christmas movie. Of course, that was just the start because the sequel to Gremlin ... Gremlins. (00:07:16): Gremlins two. They had all these new crazy ass Gremlins. And if you haven't seen it, there's an amazing key and peel sketch about the pitch for Gremlins too, where they just run through all the wild characters they come up with that is definitely worth the watch. It's only like a couple minutes long. Number five, my next character, weird character in a weird or undersun Christmas movie is Jesper Johansson. Do people remember Klaus from 2019? This character in the movie was played by Jason Schwartzman. And I'm not a really big Jason Schwartzman guy usually. I find it to be annoying, frankly. But this is one of the finest animated movies of the 21st century, and it should have won the best animated feature over Toy Story four, which is the worst of the Toy Story movies. So you got JK Simmons in Santa Claus. That's really good. (00:08:09): Or he's called Klaus in this movie. You got Rashida Jones as Schwartzman's girlfriend. This works out better than when she was Jim Halper's girlfriend, by the way. And this is like an alternative Christmas origin story. So Jesper's a postman. He needs to deliver letters to prove himself to his father. He can run a good post office. So this is basically like the male version of Billy Madison. Male, M-A-I-L. So he gets the local's letter writing because he finds a toy maker that the kids can ask him to build toys for them. You can kind of guess where things go from there. The post office thrives, but Jesper refuses the eventual promotion so he can live amongst the previously feuding town folks. The twist that's really ruffle here is that Klaus was making toys for children that he and his wife were not able to conceive. (00:09:02): This is kind of like the beginning of Up. In the movie, he's a widow, but his wife comes back at the end to call his spirit away. And then his spirit returns every year to deliver toys as you get to Santa Claus. Really good movie. He should check it out this holiday season. Another reason to love this movie is because this was Norm McDonald's last film that was released in his lifetime. He's a fairyman in the movie. And he's delivering Norm McDonald style lines like, ah, Young Love takes me back. The intense looks, the palpitations of the heart, the whimpering and the soiling of the pants. Number four, the Heat Miser and the Snow Miser from the year without a Santa Claus. This is one of two Rankin Bass publications that I'll have on the list here. And this is one of the trippier Rankin Bass productions. (00:09:55): Santa Claus is played by Mickey Rooney, who's ... Santa Claus is played like a real bitch here. He doesn't want to do anything for Christmas because he feels like people don't love him. This is like if Donald Trump was Santa Claus. That leads to something of a shaggy plot involving the recovery of a missing reindeer and a crooked small town mayor. Essentially, Mrs. Claus needs to make it snow in a southern town. Don't ask. It's better if you don't ask. So the story eventually involves the heat miser. He controls the northern or the southern hemisphere where it's warm. And the snowmiser, he controls the northern hemisphere where it's cold. They are feuding brothers and the sons of mother nature. And in retrospect, that was not an accurate description of how temperatures work on the globe. So the snowmiser has a top and the bottom and the heat miser has the middle. (00:10:54): So these characters actually have become queer icons over time. They've been described as bitchy gay uncles, which is pretty accurate if you've seen the movie. And Elliot Smith, the '90s singer, founded a band called Heat Miser, which features an openly gay front man. Yes, it's a queer, coded and very campy Christmas movie. I bet you didn't even know that existed. Plus, the Snow Miser and the Heat Miser songs, they're actually insanely catchy. Stan ends up coming back in the end to deliver toys, but no one gives a shit because he's an asshole. And that's the end of the movie. You should check it out though, because of the Heat Miser and the Snow Miser. Two really unique Christmas movie characters. Next, number three, Home Alone three from 1997. Just to be clear, I hate Home Alone three, but my daughter loves it, so I have to watch it all the time. (00:11:49): And I think this is a generational thing because a lot of people younger than me think Home Alone three is the best Home Alone. It's at least the third best Home Alone, but that's just me, an 80s kid talking smack about them, the 90s kids. One thing they changed in this version was to add more groups of criminals. So you don't have two criminals like in Home Alone one and two. You've got four criminals. You've got the ringleader. You've got one girl. You've got two dip shit. Henchmen. And I have to admit, as I watch this more and more, a lot of the gags have been growing on me. I'm a simple man. So when somebody gets hitting the balls with a crowbar and bleach out, you smacked my winky. Yeah, I'm in. That is absolute cinema to me. Number two, we've got Paul Hunum. (00:12:42): I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. Played by Paul Giomati in the new Christmas classic, The Holdovers from 2023. This is a more recent Christmas movie that Friend of the Pod Jess Birkin recommended to me. And it's a really funny comedy about a professor who has to babysit one of his students who's been left behind by his parents over Christmas break. He's held over at a prestigious New England private school. As if there were any other kind of New England private school. A lot of people love this movie and it's kind of, as I said, this new Christmas classic. So you got Divine Joy Randolph who won the Best Sporting Actress Award as the emotional core of the movie. Her son died in Vietnam. And the comedic parts of the film center mostly around the student professor relationship. So Dominic Sessa plays a student and he's really great. (00:13:31): He actually went to a New England prep school like the kid in the film. And he's actually playing Anthony Bourdain in the upcoming biopic. But Paul Giomatti playing the professor is pretty much perfect in this role as this curmudgeonly old man. He's the anchor of many humorous scenes, but none funnier than one of the last scenes in the film. After the headmaster of the school fires him, he lets him know he's been waiting so long to tell him that he views him as penis cancer in human form, which is such a fucking great line. Sorry, I ruined it, but it's just too good not to ruin. Now we come to my last character, weird character from weird Christmas movie. It's somebody who you're not going to know. Elisa from 1979's Jack Frost. This is another rank and bass production. So here's what happens in the movie. (00:14:23): Jack Frost wants to become human because he falls in love with this girl, Elisa. Elisa, I don't know. So he risks it all, he gives up all his powers and Father of Winter is like, "Okay, you can become human so you can go get the girl." So he goes down to earth, he meets Eliza and then it turns out Elias is in love with somebody else already. So Jack Frost is just like, "Oh, well, fuck it. " So instead he decides to become Jack Frost again to defeat the bad guy who is randomly some Kosak version of Santa Claus. And so he's like, actually forget it. I guess I may sexual from here on out. Really weird. The Jack Frost movies are always bad. Sorry. But perhaps to Elisa who saved the town by friend zoning Jack Frost into eternity. Jack Frost may be immortal again, but he ain't never getting his dick wet. (00:15:13): Next up, it's the Shannons, Keith and Kara. We're talking paralegalism, acting, AI, and musicals. Oh my God, musicals? I just vomited in my mouth. It's cool. Let's hold it back down. (00:15:32): Well, I've effectively run out of things to say, which is awkward because it's a podcast. So I'm just going to sing show tunes for the next 60 minutes. No, I'm just fucking with you. I don't even know a single show tune, at least not right now, let alone enough to fill an hour. So we'll just do the guest interview instead. Okay, everybody? I mean, why not? I've already booked the time in my calendar. Our guests today are Keith Shannon, a paralegal technology instructor at Central Piedmont Community College in North Carolina and Kara Shannon, who is an actor in New York City. As you might have guessed, these two share the same name and that's not just a coincidence. They are related. It's a family affair today on Legal Late Night. Keith, Kara, welcome to the show. Kara Shannon (00:16:21): Hey, thanks, Jared. Thank you for having us, Jared. Jared Correia (00:16:25): Now I feel like an asshole because I blew Keith off last week. I went to Charlotte and never called him. I feel bad. You can cast the gate me live Kara Shannon (00:16:33): If you want. He's a busy man too. He's working and doing this with me. I Jared Correia (00:16:40): Probably would've called and he would've been like, "Sorry, I can't hang with you. I got a million things going on. " Keith Shannon (00:16:45): I'm busy. It's tough. Kara Shannon (00:16:46): I got to go talk to my daughter. That's what he does all the time. Keith Shannon (00:16:49): Yeah. But yeah, that is how we are related in case people were wondering. She is my daughter. I'm her dad. And we do a theater podcast together. Jared Correia (00:16:59): Oh, good. I wanted to ask you about that. Keith Shannon (00:17:01): Yes. Jared Correia (00:17:01): Hey, you're not taking over the podcast quite yet. All right. Keith Shannon (00:17:05): Here, Jared Correia (00:17:06): I ask the questions here. Okay. Okay. Keith Shannon (00:17:07): Sorry. Jared Correia (00:17:08): What's your podcast about? Tell me about it. Fourth row center, what does that mean? Is that like the best seat in the house for a show? Kara Shannon (00:17:17): Well, it's actually, isn't it third row center, dad is the best seat or something like that. Fifth row, something. Whatever it was. Fourth row center Keith Shannon (00:17:26): Is the best seat, but someone else is sitting in it. Kara Shannon (00:17:32): Yeah. That's awesome. So we took the next best thing and it was fourth row center was the name of Keith Shannon (00:17:38): The Kara Shannon (00:17:38): Podcast. And I came up with it. Thank you. Keith Shannon (00:17:40): Yeah, we were struggling and she said, "I'm a third row center." And I researched it and someone is in Jared Correia (00:17:46): The- That's a great name. Someone has it in fact. Keith Shannon (00:17:49): So we moved back a row. It's still a great seat. Jared Correia (00:17:52): Still good seat. It's Keith Shannon (00:17:53): Still the best seat in Jared Correia (00:17:54): The house. Keith Shannon (00:17:54): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:17:56): Carol, why did you decide to do a podcast with your dad? My daughter is 10, and if I was like, "Would you like to do a podcast with me? " She would be like, "Go to hell. You're an old Kara Shannon (00:18:06): Loser." Well, I think I would have said that when I was 10 too. It's growing up. It's maturing. That really does it. No, well, I wouldn't be in theater without dad. He's the one who started off the whole love for theater. He grew up with it with his mom working in his community theater and then passed it down to me and my sister. And as we got older, we've been talking about theater all our lives. And one day dad just goes, "This would be interesting if people actually heard what we were talking about, because we just throw out names, we throw out songs, we throw out musicals all the time and just talk nonsense for hours." So he said, "Let's start a podcast." I said, "Okay." And now the real trouble is since we're in opposite parts of the country, finding time to record a podcast, but we have a couple of episodes out there. (00:18:58): It's fun. We like it, right, dad? You like it, right? Keith Shannon (00:19:03): Do you like it? Yes, yes. We've interviewed some Broadway folks and I've got a few contacts in the Broadway world and my older daughter has Kathleen also works in New York and- Jared Correia (00:19:20): Who refused to appear on the podcast today? I just Keith Shannon (00:19:22): Want to say that. Kara Shannon (00:19:24): Never. Jared Correia (00:19:24): She's shameful. Keith Shannon (00:19:26): Yeah. Kara Shannon (00:19:28): We're just complete opposite. She got the brains of the operation and dad and I are the faces and the stupidity of the operation. Keith Shannon (00:19:39): So you see, she does think the same way as your daughter thinks about you. Oh, Kara Shannon (00:19:45): Yay. It sticks around. Keith Shannon (00:19:49): Well, my wife is a physician and so as the girls were growing up, she's like, "Ah, science, math." And I'm a lawyer and she's like, "Okay, let's send them on their way." And they both go, "Entertainment." Jared Correia (00:20:06): All right. So how did you get into the Broadway stuff, Keith? Because I don't know Keith Shannon (00:20:11): If I know that. Jared Correia (00:20:13): You were in a Vaudeville family. Go ahead. Keith Shannon (00:20:16): Yes. We juggled and tap danced. No, it's kind of a neat story. So like Kara said, my mom was in community theater. We grew up in the mountains of Eastern Kentucky, so far in the mountains that if they do news stories where they go back and interview people where I'm from, they have to faunt the language so that some people can understand it. I mean, it's that thick. But there is this little amphitheater with a state park where I grew up near Prestonsburg, Kentucky. And during the summers, my mom and then my siblings were all involved in the theater. So I started working there really just to have someone to pay attention to me as a kid. And the guy that managed it, what was really good. He later became Tennessee Williams literary agent, Jared Correia (00:21:12): Which is- I thought that was going to be, he later became Tennessee Williams full stop. No. But go on. I was like, damn, all right. Keith Shannon (00:21:22): But he was good at spotting talent and Kara has heard this story a million times. For example, in the first summer I was there, I was working on the tech crew and we were doing a play called Carnival and the guy that had one of the character leads in it was Jim Varney who- Ernest. I don't know if you ever saw- Yeah, Ernest. Yeah. Very good. Let's go. Ernest goes to camp. I'm a fan. Are you really? No. Well, and he also did the voice of the Slinky Dog in the two of the Tory Story movies. That's right. Before Jared Correia (00:22:01): He died, right? Keith Shannon (00:22:02): Yes. He is deceased, but he taught me how to juggle. And I have taught the girls how to juggle. So Jim Varney is alive and well in the Shannon household through our ability to juggle. Then the next summer, Ron, at the time, his name was Ron Pellillo, but he later changed it to Ron Palillo. He was Horseshack and Welcome Back Cotter. I don't know. Jared Correia (00:22:25): Do you remember Keith Shannon (00:22:26): Him? I Jared Correia (00:22:26): Know Horshak. Yeah. I loved Welcome Back Carter.That was a great show. He was there. Keith Shannon (00:22:31): Yes. Yeah. Good. I'm right here Jared Correia (00:22:34): With you. We're vibing right now. Keith Shannon (00:22:35): Yeah. And then there was a Disney star who was there. His grandparents, I think, had lived in Eastern Kentucky and it was Tommy Kirk who was in Swiss family Robinson. Old Yeller. Did you ever watch Old Yeller? Jared Correia (00:22:53): Yeah, kind of sad. I'm still depressed by Old Yeller. Keith Shannon (00:22:56): Yeah, there you go. And then later on he did one called Mars Needs Women. This was as his career was winning. Jared Correia (00:23:06): Later his career. Keith Shannon (00:23:08): Yeah. And it is priceless. You occasionally see that one on mystery science theater 3000. I worked at this theater for years and actually even acted a little bit. I was in a show where my character got killed at the end of the first act. And you could hear the entire audience sigh with relief when I finally got killed because my talent as an actor is marginal. So over the years, lots of people have come through that theater, even when I wasn't working, who have won Tony's and who have gone on television and Broadway. And we keep in touch. We actually have reunions of the theater group. Yeah. Jared Correia (00:23:53): Kara, let me ask you, what is it like to be an actual working actor? Kara Shannon (00:24:01): Oh, well, I'm not. It's the thing. Jared Correia (00:24:05): How would you imagine it would be like that? Okay. Yeah. So talk to me about what you do. Because I know what your dad does. I want to know more about what you do. But Kara Shannon (00:24:12): We'll come back to you, Keith. He's got loads of stories. I'm sure he'll do the most of the talking. But my life is very boring. Jared Correia (00:24:22): Not a great lead in for a podcast interview, but please go on. Kara Shannon (00:24:26): I'm so sorry. It's just real life is what it is. I live here and I do send in audition tapes. I do all of that. I went to my first actual real life audition the other week, which was fun and exciting. Oh, Jared Correia (00:24:41): How'd it go? Kara Shannon (00:24:42): Horrible. It was the worst thing I've ever done in my life. But anyway, but otherwise I'm a server as all actors do. You have to work in the service industry. You have scripts Jared Correia (00:24:57): And you're like, maybe I'll see somebody who's important and can- Kara Shannon (00:25:01): Exactly. You always have a headshot on you. Maybe someone famous will walk into the restaurant, you can whip it out. But that's Jared Correia (00:25:08): Basically- Maybe someone famous is listening to this show right now. That's so true. Kara Shannon (00:25:13): Hire me, Jared Correia (00:25:14): Please. Manuel Miranda is like doing his weekly listen to Legal Late 90. It's true. That's a fit for me. Kara Shannon (00:25:23): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:25:23): He needs a role. Kara Shannon (00:25:25): Hi, Lynn. We love you. Please listen. Keith Shannon (00:25:29): She doesn't live far away from him actually. Kara Shannon (00:25:32): No, he's right. I could throw a rock and it would hit his window. Jared Correia (00:25:35): Just mak sure you wrap your script around it. Yes. Exactly. All right. So when you were younger, was your dad ever like, "You should be a lawyer. It's great." Kara Shannon (00:25:46): Absolutely not. Jared Correia (00:25:47): Really? Kara Shannon (00:25:47): Never. Jared Correia (00:25:48): Okay. Kara Shannon (00:25:48): Well, also I don't have ... I'm just not that person. My sister, on the other hand, my sister would be an amazing lawyer. He was the one who would look at her and be like, "You would be great." And then he'd look at me and he'd be like, "You should go outside and run around if you laughs." You need to tone it down. Jared Correia (00:26:09): Whatever you do. Don't be a lawyer. Don't Kara Shannon (00:26:12): Go into any field other than acting, please. We can't destroy any lives here. Jared Correia (00:26:20): Did you have any interest in it at all? Or were you always like, from the point in which you were younger, like the beeline is to acting? That's what I want to Kara Shannon (00:26:27): Do. No. Yeah. Well, I mean, I wouldn't say I never wanted to be a lawyer, but I have a master's in marketing as well. That's also a fallback of mine. And so during that, you have to take business law and those classes. And so that was where it became interesting because I had something other than theater to talk to him about. And so that's where my interest lies was in different classes like that that I take. And then when some documentary comes out where someone got arrested for something and I'm calling him up being like, "Hey, tell me more about this. What am I missing?" Stuff like that. It's just for pop culture references really. But otherwise, no. Jared Correia (00:27:12): So Keith, you're the pop culture reference in case any information is needed when someone's listening to serial or something. But you also are a paralegal instructor. Can you tell me a little bit about that? What is that like? Keith Shannon (00:27:31): Well, you're a recovering attorney as well. So I had practiced and then I ended up being an at-home dad to Kara and her older sister, Kathleen. And I was actually going out between the two kids when Kathleen got a little older and Carol was not here yet, I started doing seminars with Skillpath seminars. I was going all over the country doing time management- Oh, Jared Correia (00:28:00): Live stuff. Oh, that's cool. Keith Shannon (00:28:01): Yeah. Yeah. I would do six hour seminars alone. Oh my God. Yeah. So I learned how to pending. Jared Correia (00:28:09): Somebody asked me to do something for over an hour. I'm like, no, I'm out. Keith Shannon (00:28:15): I got really good at keeping people's attention and I would do magic tricks and jokes and stuff. It was whatever I could juggle, anything I could do. So then Kara came along and ruined that because I needed to be home Jared Correia (00:28:33): Because Keith Shannon (00:28:34): I was going out every other week all over the country. Jared Correia (00:28:36): Oh my Keith Shannon (00:28:36): Gosh. Jared Correia (00:28:37): That's a lot, man. Keith Shannon (00:28:39): It was tough. I Jared Correia (00:28:41): Would've needed just like piles of cocaine to accomplish that. Dad, Kara Shannon (00:28:47): Is that what you needed too? Yeah. Something to share with the class. Oh Jared Correia (00:28:52): Boy, Christmas dinner is going to be interesting this year. Yeah. All right, please go on. I won't interrupt again, I promise, but I Keith Shannon (00:28:59): Won't. I was an at-home dad to Kara, and then as she got older, I thought, well, I'm pretty good at teaching. So I applied at Central Piedmont in their paralegal department. That's 23 years ago. That's a long Jared Correia (00:29:12): Time ago. I was going to say, yeah, that's the only place you've been, right, as an instructor? Keith Shannon (00:29:16): Yeah. And it's funny, you think you can do it in the first two years you realize, well, this is like everything else, it's harder than it looks, but I love teaching and I love paralegals because we get ... And as you know, Jared and anyone who's a lawyer Jared Correia (00:29:32): Knows- The backbone of the legal industry. Keith Shannon (00:29:35): That's right. And they don't teach ... In law school, they teach us to sit around and think deep thoughts. They don't ... It's like draft a will. No, no, no. We're not going to teach you how Jared Correia (00:29:48): To do that. What? Keith Shannon (00:29:49): Yeah. Yeah. The business stuff. So we teach and we are ... I'll blow our own horn. We're an ABA certified program I am, which means they come in every few years and look at everything. And so it's very practical. The people, actually the students pick up real skills, how to draft. I teach civil litigation and legal research and writing because I've got a background in journalism and teach ethics and law office technology, as you know. Jared Correia (00:30:22): That's a pretty big course load, frankly. Keith Shannon (00:30:24): Yes, it is. And that's the thing about community colleges. We look at university professors who are teaching one seminar and I mean they have to publish. Yeah. But we're actually, we're teaching a lot of stuff, but I love it. And it's fun to, like with the technology, man, you can't rest on your laurels. It changes every week. So you got to keep up. Jared Correia (00:30:52): Especially now. Okay. So yeah, that's one of the things I wanted to ask you about. AI. How are paralegals feeling about this? Both the students you work with and the graduates that you keep in touch with, are people afraid that they're going to lose their jobs? Are people like, "Oh, this is amazing. I can work faster." What's going on in the industry? Keith Shannon (00:31:11): Well, as near as I can tell, and I think we've talked about this before, it looks to me and to them like someone's got to run the AI. Someone's got to put the stuff in there. Someone has to learn the prompts. And as an older gentleman, I think I can safely say it ain't going to be us. It's not going to be the partners. And maybe it'll be the associates, but the associates are getting paid a whole lot of money to put in prompts. So if you can train your paralegal to do that, then the paralegal probably has job security. It's going to be a different job. And I just read some poll that talked about actually how many partners are using AI per week. And it was more than I thought. They weren't using it. Jared Correia (00:32:13): Yeah. Not as aggressively as they could be, obviously. Keith Shannon (00:32:17): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:32:19): So in your experience, it sounds like both your students and the paralegals that have graduated are actively using AI right now. Keith Shannon (00:32:28): Well, depends on who the graduates are working for. Some of them aren't just because their firms, I guess their firms are afraid of it. They don't really know exactly what to do. And they're cautious about the confidentiality aspects of it. What's going to happen if you do a prompt and accidentally put some information out there that shouldn't be out there. So now the eDiscovery, I've been going to some seminars and they've got kind of walled off AI that is, which they've always kind of had anyway with predictive coding and that sort of stuff. Jared Correia (00:33:11): Right. Keith Shannon (00:33:12): But- Jared Correia (00:33:13): That's interesting. I think lawyers are reticent to have policies. And I'm probably going to talk about this in a future episode, but if you don't have policy, that means everybody's using it already. Right. So get your policies out there. But that's good to know that paralegals are kind of embracing it and being like, "This is a new job role." I think that's good. I wish lawyers would take notes from that, frankly. Keith Shannon (00:33:39): Yeah. I think lawyers are just, and being, again, as being one of the old guys, lawyers are just hesitant to start using anything new, I think. Jared Correia (00:33:51): Oh yeah. This has been the case with everything, like the cloud and for it and probably email and websites. Keith Shannon (00:33:59): Yeah, the even email. There are still attorneys out there who print out all of their emails. It's crazy. Jared Correia (00:34:10): Kara, let me ask you, so AI is obviously an interesting topic in acting as well. Jared Correia (00:34:17): Yeah. Jared Correia (00:34:18): How are people feeling about this in the movie, TV show, theater, industry? Is this a hot topic conversation? What are people saying? Kara Shannon (00:34:29): Oh, definitely. Well, that AI actor just was released a few months ago where I don't know if you guys heard about her, but she has a name. She is this random AI person that can go in any movie and can say any line, feel any emotion, and it's in there. And the TV film industry went crazy. It was a whole thing. But I think the good thing about the acting community and the theater community as a whole is that they're very much anti-AI in everything, whether it's writing scripts, writing music, anything like that. I Jared Correia (00:35:08): Feel like I'm in the wrong industry. Kara Shannon (00:35:12): Well, come on over. Listen, we need more people. That's right. But no, I think you can see by the response from that AI actor that people are just outraged by it. So no one even wants to touch it. I could use it, but I don't because I'm highly against all things AI. Even ChatGPT, I'm sorry. I refuse to use it. It's so pointless to me. I mean, I think this next generation coming up and no offense to your kids or anything, but- You Jared Correia (00:35:40): Can make fun of my kids. In fact, I Kara Shannon (00:35:41): Encourage it. No. I mean, I just feel bad for them because they're not going to ... If they do have access to this AI, it's like, how do you think? How do you use your mind? How do you be creative? Jared Correia (00:35:52): Yeah, I Kara Shannon (00:35:53): Think that's a problem. And so that's how the actors feel. We hate it. Jared Correia (00:35:59): So are people in the industry using it? And then does that leave you with a difficult choice to be like, "I'm not going to take on this project because there's AI usage in it. Kara Shannon (00:36:12): " Well, the thing is, if they were using it, and I have no idea, I'm sure people probably are, but if they were, they wouldn't tell anyone because they'd be scared. Jared Correia (00:36:22): Yeah. Kara Shannon (00:36:22): And that's the honest truth. I don't think anyone would admit that they use AI for anything. Jared Correia (00:36:27): All right, this is good. I think this is the right choice. Kudos to the theater and acting community. Well done. Yeah, there you go. So Carol, I'll come back to you in a second because I got one more big question for you. Kara Shannon (00:36:40): Take it over, Keethi. Jared Correia (00:36:44): Keithi? I get no Kara Shannon (00:36:45): Respect. Yeah, you can call him Matt. Jared Correia (00:36:49): Holy cow. So we do have lawyers listening as well, probably the primary audience. So I want to know if I'm a lawyer, how do I work with a paralegal in the most effective way possible without being a total dick? Keith Shannon (00:37:08): Well- Jared Correia (00:37:08): Because that happens. Keith Shannon (00:37:10): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first of all, don't be that way to anybody. That's a good Jared Correia (00:37:18): Point. That's a good starting point. Keith Shannon (00:37:19): Yeah. I mean, occasionally a student will do they'll go to work for an attorney, they'll graduate and they'll call and they'll say, "Oh, this person's horrible." They're just a horrible human being. But the thing to think about with a paralegal is that, and I just had a guest lecturer who's an attorney, like a civil practice defense attorney. She handles 18-wheeler defense cases and she was talking about how she uses her paralegal and she looks at it, and this is one way of looking at it, at billables. Look at the reason that an attorney's billable rate is higher than a paralegal and concentrate on those things. So you can ... A paralegal, I mean, we teach them how to draft documents and you're not going to have the final version of it, but if a paralegal, and this is one way to effectively use a paralegal, at least in a plaintiff's practice or in a defense insurance defense practice, be sure that they're involved from the beginning. (00:38:36): And she said that she likes to bring on the paralegal and have them interact with the client as early as possible for two reasons. First of all, the paralegal is going to know the facts, is going to have a feel for how truthful and how effective that client could be as a witness or a potential witness, but also the client is not going to feel like ... If the paralegal has to have contact with them in the future, the client is not going to feel like they've been handed off to somebody. If it's a team thing, then the client is like, "Oh, that's the paralegal. This is the person who's been here from the start." And at some point, and I come from plaintiff's personal injury and the defense side of things, at some point in the process, especially with, well, both plaintiffs and defense type things, at some point, the paralegal is going to know more facts about the case than anybody else on earth. (00:39:39): At some point in the discovery process, they will know that. Very Jared Correia (00:39:42): True. Keith Shannon (00:39:42): And they need to be in touch with that client to work on initial drafts of interrogatories, initial drafts of answers to interrogatories, going through the production of documents and things like that. So the most efficient and effective way to use a paralegal is to get them involved in a matter early on and not assume that they're going to be intimidated or that they're not going to have the knowledge to be able to handle things as they move along because you want the paralegal. If you're going to get ready for trial, you need that paralegal to know everything from stem to stern, all of the discovery, all of the depositions, all of that stuff. And then bring them ... She said that she doesn't bring her paralegal to trial with her usually because it's a billing sort of thing. The client doesn't want to do that. (00:40:37): But she said plaintiff's firms will bring the paralegals to depositions and bring the paralegals to court. Jared Correia (00:40:43): That's smart. Keith Shannon (00:40:44): So I think that was good advice. Jared Correia (00:40:48): Same question for paralegals. If I'm paralegal and I want to work effectively with an attorney, what do I do? Keith Shannon (00:40:55): Well, you can't be ... As a matter of fact, at one point when I was practicing, my paralegal was intimidated by me, which makes no sense. I mean, you've seen me, but ... Jared Correia (00:41:09): Yeah. It's not the vibe, I get. Keith Shannon (00:41:12): Yeah. But she was very shy and she wouldn't talk. And that just wouldn't work because if you've got a question, you've got to be able to come to me. There's got to be open communication. I solved that problem actually by giving her a lot of grief. And then she would ask me how the day had gone and I would tell her things that were obviously blatant lies and then she would ... And I will use my Eastern Kentucky accent. I knew that we had turned the corner when she looked at me and she would say, "Oh, hesh up your line thing." I knew- Wait, what did you just say? ... we were where we needed to be. The Kara Shannon (00:41:54): Thing is, I understood it perfectly. That's what's horrible. Jared Correia (00:41:56): Okay. I need a translator. Keith Shannon (00:41:59): Yeah. But the first thing really is communication and the paralegal needs to be sure that he or she makes it clear that they want to be able to communicate with the attorney and also when you're given an assignment, make sure that the attorney knows that you are going to confirm that in writing. So get as much feedback as you can when you're given some sort of a task so that the attorney knows that you know what you're supposed to be doing. And I think it's all a matter of communication and making sure that the attorney knows what you can do, but also maybe what you're not willing to do. If the attorney says, "Oh, just sign these." Maybe not. Jared Correia (00:42:47): Yeah. Don't do that. Keith Shannon (00:42:48): I also teach ethics. Jared Correia (00:42:53): You put some notes together on ethics. Tell me some ethics stuff before we finish up. Keith Shannon (00:42:57): Oh, well, let's see about ethics and about Broadway, right? So in our ethics class, one of the things that we look at at the very beginning is the tension between ethics and morals, the ethics rules versus morals and- Different things. Why have the Broadway show for you? Jared Correia (00:43:21): Oh, okay. Keith Shannon (00:43:22): It's Stephen Sontimes Into the Woods. Jared Correia (00:43:24): I already hate it. Go on. Keith Shannon (00:43:28): Did you see Cara light up when I said that? Kara Shannon (00:43:31): I know. Jared, I think you ripped our hearts out a little bit with that. We love into the woods. Anyway, continue that. I Keith Shannon (00:43:39): Don't even know what it is. Go ahead. That's okay. Well, when I describe it to you, it's not going to help. It's a musical about fairytale characters. It's about a baker and his wife, and they end up ... Their neighbor is a wicked witch. They meet Jack and the Beanstalk and his cow and his mom, and they also meet Cinderella, and they also meet Rapunzel and a couple of princes and who else- Wait, is this Shrek? Is what it sounds like. Kara Shannon (00:44:13): It is. All the people that are in Shrek, yes. Little Red is in there. Keith Shannon (00:44:17): Oh, that's right. Little Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf and the grandmother. We meet all of us. And the Baker and his wife have to go on this kind of a scavenger hunt to find something for the witch in order for her to reverse a spell. And the whole point of it really is what is a good person. And Kara, you can chime in and see if you agree with me, but the whole idea is being a good person, being nice, are morals relative? Because at some point, the witch, just before she gets ready to leave, she points out and she's correct. She's angry at everybody, but she says, "You're all liars and thieves. You're not nice, or you are nice, you're just not good." And the thing is, as audience members, you're actually rooting for all of these people, but all during the show, they are liars and thieves. (00:45:16): And so it's like, wait a minute, crap. Are they good? Are they not good? What is goodness? And so it makes you kind of examine that question. Correct, Kara? Kara Shannon (00:45:29): Correct. That was great. Wow. Jared Correia (00:45:34): You landed the plane. Kara, I got one more question for you before we talk about Broadway. Kara Shannon (00:45:38): What's Jared Correia (00:45:39): Up? I was literally just talking to an attorney before we got on and recorded this and she was like, "Should I leave this all behind to become an actor?" Should she? Kara Shannon (00:45:50): No. Absolutely not. Because Jared Correia (00:45:56): Look where I am. Keep practicing law, everybody. Kara Shannon (00:46:00): Look where I am right now. You look very comfortable. I have a theater degree, but I have a backup plan. I have a master's in marketing. I worked in marketing. I'm a server now. I'm also a dog walker on the side. I got to make ends meet. Listen. But no, I mean, the good thing about theater and acting, there are always community theaters. There are always things around you to do no matter where you are. Even if where dad is in South Carolina, you can do theater wherever you are. So that's the good thing. You can find that community wherever you need it. Jared Correia (00:46:38): Maybe a side hustle. All right. Will you come back for the next segment? There's no fucking way in hell I'm doing it. Anyway, can we come back for the next segment to talk more about theater? I hope you'll return. Keith Shannon (00:46:51): Oh yes. We got some stuff. Jared Correia (00:46:55): You need to return because I don't have anything planned. All right. We'll be back in a moment, everybody, with Kara and Keith. Welcome back everybody. That's right. The Counter Program is a podcast within a podcast. This is a conversational space where we can address usually unrelated topics that I want to explore at a greater depth with my guests. Expect no rhyme and very little reason. And that's all I've got because as I've said many times on the show, if you've got something unique and interesting to bring to me for this segment, I will happily see the floor to you. And Keith and Kara have something planned for me. I don't even know what it is, but I'm ready to go. Let's do it. Keith Shannon (00:47:40): Okay. All Kara Shannon (00:47:41): Right. Dad, do you want to take us away? Keith Shannon (00:47:43): Yes. Well, first of all, I did, believe it or not, Jared, I've been thinking about what it would be to be like to be in your brain because you would say- It's ugly place. Yeah, you do need to clean it up a little bit. It's just crowded in there and most of the stuff is not needed. Have Jared Correia (00:48:05): You seen Inside Out? No. Keith Shannon (00:48:12): And you've made it known that you hate musicals, right? So before we start, we've got some questions for you, but before we start, I wanted to let you know my vision of how it sounds inside your brain. Oh, interesting. Okay. And I think we have a musical piece that I have found from inside your head. So if Evan can go ahead and start that, we can listen to it. Imagine yourself standing on a stage in a spotlight, a suit with a briefcase, and you sing this. Jared Correia (00:48:56): I object to the music. Why can't we just speak? Must we sing through the play? No justice in key. I love for the silence. Jared Correia (00:49:45): Oh, wow. Yeah, that's you. See, that was fucking terrible. It's precisely why I hate musicals. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate the artistry. However ... So my favorite part was why can't we just speak? That is like my whole thing with musicals. Just talk to each other. We didn't have to sing to each other. Keith Shannon (00:50:14): Well, but when it gets to the point where words just won't express what you feel, it's music. You need your music. You Jared Correia (00:50:22): Have to sing it. I don't know. I never get to that point. It's funny, when my kids come home for dinner, I'm not singing a song to them about clearing the dishwasher or anything. Oh, Kara Shannon (00:50:31): Wow. Jared Correia (00:50:31): Anyway. Kara Shannon (00:50:32): That was my entire childhood. Jared Correia (00:50:34): Yeah. See, that was- Kara Shannon (00:50:36): We even had a song to send the dog to the crate to go to sleep. We had a song. Jared Correia (00:50:41): Oh yeah, I forgot. Yeah. I think I just grew up in the wrong household. Anyway, continue. I don't want to bogart your segment. Keith Shannon (00:50:47): Oh no, that's okay. So we do ... And I think you're going to be singing a different tune before we're done. Jared Correia (00:50:53): All right. Keith Shannon (00:50:54): So we've got some trivia questions that like you do, multiple choice. They're theater, musical, trivia questions. Jared Correia (00:51:01): Thank God it's multiple choice. Keith Shannon (00:51:02): And we will educate you about theater as you answer these questions. So- Jared Correia (00:51:08): Don't give me the multiple choice first of all. I want to see if I can guess them. Kara Shannon (00:51:12): Okay. Jared Correia (00:51:12): Okay. Kara Shannon (00:51:13): We can do that. Keith Shannon (00:51:14): Okay. Yeah. So I think I've got the first one. We'll trade off of these things. Jared Correia (00:51:20): Okay. Keith Shannon (00:51:21): So the first one is what characteristics about a New York play or musical musical qualifies it to be considered as being quote on Broadway? Jared Correia (00:51:35): Oh, I don't know. I need the multiple choice. Keith Shannon (00:51:40): Okay. So one- It's a terrible idea. In retrospect. A, B, C, D. A, the location of the theater within a certain radius of streets and avenues in Manhattan. B, the number of seats in the theater where the play is performed. C, the percentage of actors in the cast who belong to the Broadway Actors Union, or D, the number of individuals in the cast. Jared Correia (00:52:08): As someone who designs these games as well, I feel like I should go with my gut. And my answer before multiple choice was going to be location in the city. Is that correct? Keith Shannon (00:52:19): Ah. You would be wrong. Really? Jared Correia (00:52:25): Yes. Oh my God. Keith Shannon (00:52:25): Everybody answer. Everybody thinks Broadway is a place. Me too. Kara, do you want to- Kara Shannon (00:52:31): Yeah. Yeah. So the answer is the number of seats in the theater. Really? Keith Shannon (00:52:35): It Kara Shannon (00:52:35): Has to be 500 or more in order for it to be a Broadway theater. Jared Correia (00:52:41): That's crazy. Does it have to be in New York or could it be ... Keith Shannon (00:52:46): Yes. Jared Correia (00:52:46): Anywhere. Kara Shannon (00:52:47): Yes. Yeah. Wow. It's Keith Shannon (00:52:48): Got to be in New York, but it doesn't have anything to do with- Kara Shannon (00:52:51): It is confusing because there is a street called Broadway. Keith Shannon (00:52:54): Yes. Kara Shannon (00:52:55): But technically there are only ... How many theaters on Broadway, dad? It's like between four and seven, but there's so many more Broadway Keith Shannon (00:53:02): Theaters. Kara Shannon (00:53:03): The actual Broadway. I think Keith Shannon (00:53:04): It's Jared Correia (00:53:04): Four. Street. Kara Shannon (00:53:05): I Keith Shannon (00:53:06): Don't know. Jared Correia (00:53:06): That's cool. Okay. This part I like because I'm learning Keith Shannon (00:53:09): Something. Yes. There you go. Kara Shannon (00:53:11): All right. Dad, do you want to do question two or go to three? Keith Shannon (00:53:14): I'll follow up because question two. I mentioned the Broadway Actors Union. So this is a follow-up. What's the name of the union for Broadway actors? And I've got choices if you need it. Jared Correia (00:53:30): If it's not the Broadway Actors Union, I'm probably going to need some choices. Keith Shannon (00:53:35): That's one of the choices. Jared Correia (00:53:36): Okay. Keith Shannon (00:53:36): The Broadway Jared Correia (00:53:37): Actors Union. I would say not that one. That's too obvious. Keith Shannon (00:53:41): Okay. The Actors Guild of America, the associated dramatists and actors, actors equity, or I threw in the Teamsters. It's Jared Correia (00:53:52): Definitely the Teamster, it sounds. Keith Shannon (00:53:54): Yeah. I'm Jared Correia (00:53:54): Going to say actors' equity. Nicely done. There Keith Shannon (00:54:00): He is. That is it. Jared Correia (00:54:01): Yes. Keith Shannon (00:54:01): Actors equity. Jared Correia (00:54:02): I'm one for two. I'm feeling pretty good about myself. Good. Why is it called Keith Shannon (00:54:05): That? Okay. Oh, uh-oh. Carol, take this. Kara Shannon (00:54:09): No earthly idea. Look at this. Now you're going to teach us stuff. See, this is a Jared Correia (00:54:13): Good thing. I'm not going to teach you anything because I was like, this sounds weird. I don't know why it's called that. All right. I'm feeling better now. Kara Shannon (00:54:21): Okay. This next question is a question that I came up with. Thank you. Jared Correia (00:54:25): Okay. Kara Shannon (00:54:25): The creators of the TV show, South Park also created a Broadway musical. It is- Jared Correia (00:54:31): I know this one. The Book of Mormon. Kara Shannon (00:54:33): There we go. Nicely Jared Correia (00:54:35): Done. I know that Kara Shannon (00:54:36): One. I knew we could do this. I knew you could ... Yeah. Jared Correia (00:54:39): I've never seen that. Your dad told me about it. Oh, did I? Keith Shannon (00:54:45): Did I tell you about Jared Correia (00:54:46): It? Geez. Not recently. Previously.That's how I came to know about it. So you Keith Shannon (00:54:51): Remember stuff. Well, I Jared Correia (00:54:53): Like your- I've never seen Keith Shannon (00:54:54): It. Your other choices, Kara, your choices were ... And you would think that this was made up, but the second choice would have been Titanique. Kara Shannon (00:55:05): No, it's Titanique. Keith Shannon (00:55:06): Titanique. I'm sorry. Titanique. And that is- All right, that's good. That's not on Broadway. Kara Shannon (00:55:12): No, it's off Broadway. Keith Shannon (00:55:13): Is that a real show? Kara Shannon (00:55:15): It absolutely is. And it's hilarious. It's wonderful. Keith Shannon (00:55:18): People love it. Yeah. They have ... What's the woman that sings the song? I can never remember. Oh, Jared Correia (00:55:24): Celine Dion. Kara Shannon (00:55:25): Celine Dion. Keith Shannon (00:55:26): Selenia. They have a Celine Dion. Kara Shannon (00:55:28): Impressionist. Who Keith Shannon (00:55:30): Comes in and they will improv parts of the show supposedly. And then your other ones- Jared Correia (00:55:35): Feel free to go through your other choices. I don't want to deprive the people of the movie. That's Kara Shannon (00:55:40): Right. They were just to throw you out. It's like The Drowsy Chaperone, which is the funny one, and then Something Rotten, which just sounds like a skin. Jared Correia (00:55:46): Are those all real place? Kara Shannon (00:55:48): They're all real. They're all real musicals. Yeah. Jared Correia (00:55:50): The drowsy chaperone. Yeah. Kara Shannon (00:55:53): That is a great show. Keith Shannon (00:55:56): Yeah. It had the original Broadway cast head. Did you ever watch Mary Tyler Moore? Jared Correia (00:56:04): Not live. Keith Shannon (00:56:06): Young. Oh, okay. I've Jared Correia (00:56:07): Seen reruns. Keith Shannon (00:56:08): It had ... Oh, now I can't remember the name of the character that she played. There was a ditzy blonde character on Mary Tyler Moore, Jared Correia (00:56:18): And she Keith Shannon (00:56:18): Was musically- Jared Correia (00:56:19): I'm not going to be able to pull that Keith Shannon (00:56:21): One. You would like Something Rotten, because it's about William Shakespeare. Jared Correia (00:56:27): I was going to say, is that a Hamlet thing? Yeah. Keith Shannon (00:56:30): Well, it's Omelet is the way.That's Jared Correia (00:56:34): Kind of funny. Why can't people Kara Shannon (00:56:36): Just like- Yeah, it's a Jared Correia (00:56:37): Funny one. Could there be Broadway plays for me that are musicals where people just talk? The music?That'd be great. I don't know that they'd do very well, but I'd be a job. Kara Shannon (00:56:45): I'm sure there's some plays out there that are like that. Keith Shannon (00:56:49): The music, there's what? The music man, Trouble in River City is all talking, I think. So you'd like that one. Jared Correia (00:56:57): Okay. Keith Shannon (00:56:58): Oh, we have another audio segment. Jared Correia (00:57:00): Oh, great. Okay. Let's Keith Shannon (00:57:01): Do it. This one is ... The question is, what actress is featured in this famous mid-show meltdown over someone taking pictures in the audience? Jared Correia (00:57:23): Stop. Stop taking pictures right now. You heard the announcement. Who do you think you are? How dare you? Who do you think you are? Just come out. I won't continue with this taking pictures. Get them out. Three times. Three times you took a picture. You heard the announcements in the beginning, you heard the announcement on intermission. Who do you think you are? Kara Shannon (00:58:03): Every time. Jared Correia (00:58:04): Is that real? That's not part of ... Oh yes. Kara Shannon (00:58:06): That is real. It's real. Jared Correia (00:58:08): Really? Yeah. I have no idea who that is. I'm going to Keith Shannon (00:58:11): Need some help. For a refund. Okay. Your choices are Patty Lupone, Ethel Merman, Beth Levell, or Elaine Stritch. Jared Correia (00:58:25): Okay. I only know who some of those people are. Okay. There's one person I've never heard of before, which may or may not be made up. I'm going with Betty Level. Betty Level. Keith Shannon (00:58:41): It was Beth Level, but that's not ... I guess it doesn't Jared Correia (00:58:46): Matter. Keith Shannon (00:58:47): We've never heard Kara Shannon (00:58:48): Of Betty Level either. Keith Shannon (00:58:49): Yeah. But yeah, all of these people are real. They are. But that is ... Yes. Yeah. But as a matter of fact, Beth Level won a Tony, didn't she? For Drowsy Shaper. For Drowsy Kara Shannon (00:59:03): Chopra. She all comes together. Oh my Keith Shannon (00:59:04): God. Yes. Yeah. It's when she won her Tony, as a matter of fact, I was watching TV and said something like, "Oh, she seems like a shrew." And then later on, we stagedored drowsy chaperone and she and I almost went out for dinner together. It was crazy. She was so much fun. Yeah. Jared Correia (00:59:19): I would have said she seems like she's on the level. Thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the veal. Keith Shannon (00:59:24): Nicely done. Yeah. Tip your waiter.That was the famous and sometimes infamous Patty Lapone. Have you ever heard of Patty? Jared Correia (00:59:37): Yes. I do not know her. Is she known for being crazy or is that like a totally Kara Shannon (00:59:42): Out of character? She is known for being crazy. She has always been wild and Keith Shannon (00:59:47): Usually not successfully sued Andrew Lloyd Weber? He dropped her from Sunset Boulevard, I want to say in London. I mean, it takes some nerve to sue and Andrew Lloyd Weber, but she did. And she is known for ... She's had meltdowns. She grabbed someone's phone from them once in the audience. At one point gave up her- Jared Correia (01:00:12): Just a point of etiquette, is it wrong? Are people not supposed to take pictures during shows? Is that like a thing? Kara Shannon (01:00:19): No. No, Jared Correia (01:00:20): You're Kara Shannon (01:00:21): Not supposed to. She said while she was screaming at people, she said, "Did you not listen to the announcements?" At the beginning of every single show you go to see, there's an announcement that says, "Please turn off your cell phones, unwrap that candy and settle in, " which is also the beginning to our podcast. On Jared Correia (01:00:39): Movie stuff. Yeah. Kara Shannon (01:00:40): Exactly. Yeah. Jared Correia (01:00:41): I feel like I'd just be taking pictures of her after that just because I'd like to Kara Shannon (01:00:45): See. Well, clearly someone got their phone out and recorded it, thank God. Keith Shannon (01:00:49): Yeah, that was the irony of that. And actually in some places they don't want you taking pictures of the setup of the show when you walk in. The ushers will yell at you if you just take a picture of the stage. Kara Shannon (01:01:09): Dad recently came to New York and went to a comedy club and even for there, they made him put his phone in a little Ziploc bag that shuts and doesn't open until the show is done. So they've done all of that now too. Okay. Dad, I think this should probably be last question, right? Keith Shannon (01:01:25): Our last question, let's do it. Oh, man. I like my time on these Jared Correia (01:01:29): Things. Okay. Kara Shannon (01:01:31): Okay. Let me do number five and let's do number six because this is fun. Okay. Jared Correia (01:01:35): Okay. Kara Shannon (01:01:36): These are musical composers who have written musicals as well. So there is one that has a show coming out in 2026 and the choices are Sting, Dolly Parton, Bono, or Cindy Lauper. Jared Correia (01:01:52): Oh, really? I'm going to take a wild strike here and go Cindy Lauper. Kara Shannon (01:01:58): Actually, yes. Jared Correia (01:01:59): Yes. Kara Shannon (01:02:00): This is a trick question because Dolly Parton also has- Jared Correia (01:02:03): That seems Kara Shannon (01:02:04): Unfair. I know. I'm sorry. But you got it. You can take the W on that. Jared Correia (01:02:09): Good job.What is the name of Cindy Lauper's show? Girls Just Want Have Fun? It is, isn't Kara Shannon (01:02:15): It? No, the movie Working Girls, she's turning it into a musical. And so it may not come out in 2026, but it's coming to Broadway at some Jared Correia (01:02:25): Point. Is that a musical movie, Working Girl? Working Girls? Kara Shannon (01:02:29): I think it's just a movie and then she's making it. Jared Correia (01:02:32): Okay. Kara Shannon (01:02:32): She's writing the music. Jared Correia (01:02:33): All right. And what was the other one? Who else is coming out with one? Dolly Parton. What's her is going to be about? Of course. Kara Shannon (01:02:40): Her own life. Jared Correia (01:02:42): Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Keith Shannon (01:02:44): Interesting. Kara Shannon (01:02:44): All right, dad, round it up here and then we'll rest. Let's do it. Keith Shannon (01:02:47): Let's do it. I'm very proud of this question, so I've got to ask it. It's got to be hard. Which of the following plots is not a plot of a musical that has played either on or off Broadway in New York? So the first plot. An alleged UFO abductee attempts to convince his family and friends of his extraterrestrial experience only to be shonned and ridiculed by everyone other than a neighbor kid who may or may not be an extraterrestrial himself. Jared Correia (01:03:18): I like it. Keith Shannon (01:03:18): So that's the first one. I Jared Correia (01:03:19): Miss that. Keith Shannon (01:03:20): The second one. A half human, half bat creature is discovered in a cave and taken into the home of a local veterinarian facing prejudice from the town's people and jealousy from his adopted family. (01:03:32): The third one, "Conjoin twin sisters. Seek fame and fortune as stage performers in a circus side show, but their dreams of success collide with their desire for a normal life and the complexities of dealing with their unique situation with one another and with the outside world." And finally, a man who discovers a cave on his neighbor's property and begins to try to develop it as a tourist attraction becomes trapped in the cave. He's able to speak with friends and neighbors at the entrance of the cave and his plight gains national attention, ironically turning the cave into, you guessed it, a tourist attraction. Jared Correia (01:04:12): Okay. I'm eliminating B and C because I think those are real things that actually happened. What was B? The Siamese twin one I know is the thing. That was on American Keith Shannon (01:04:22): War stories. Okay. B was the half human, half bat creature. Jared Correia (01:04:25): Yeah, that's Batboy from National Inquirer. I bet they made a play about that. And then A and B. Keith Shannon (01:04:32): A was the UFO aboutD and then D is the cave guy. Jared Correia (01:04:38): I like the cave one. The cave one sounds so specific that I feel like it has to be real and I feel like the alien one is too generic. So I'm going to go with A as the false plot. Keith Shannon (01:04:49): Nicely Jared Correia (01:04:50): Done. Yes. How's that? Keith Shannon (01:04:52): Very good. Not only Jared Correia (01:04:53): Do I deliver trivia questions, but I answer that shit also. Keith Shannon (01:04:59): You are very good. Yeah. B was Batboy the musical. C was something ironically called side show. Get it. And then D was based on a cave in Kentucky and it's called Floyd Collins. And Kara saw that one. Jared Correia (01:05:19): Okay. Keith Shannon (01:05:20): So nicely done. Jared Correia (01:05:21): Thank you. I think I was three of five. I'm pleased. Keith Shannon (01:05:24): Yes. No, it was Kara Shannon (01:05:25): Very good. Keith Shannon (01:05:26): Really good. So you really are. The only thing you need to do is to get someone to convince you that musical theater is a thing. How can we do that? Kara Shannon (01:05:37): I have an idea. Keith Shannon (01:05:39): Okay. Kara Shannon (01:05:40): Should we do it? Keith Shannon (01:05:41): Sure. Kara Shannon (01:05:42): Okay. Hey, Jared. I'm going to need you to do something for me really fast. Let's Jared Correia (01:05:47): Do it. Kara Shannon (01:05:48): Okay. Say this line for me. There's no business like show business. Jared Correia (01:05:55): That I've heard before. There's no business like show business. How's that? Kara Shannon (01:05:58): All right. Now I want you to sing it in this tune for me. Jared Correia (01:06:02): Okay. Go. Kara Shannon (01:06:03): There's no business like show business. Jared Correia (01:06:07): Can I do jazz hands? Kara Shannon (01:06:09): Yes, of course. Jared Correia (01:06:10): There's no business like show business. How was that? Kara Shannon (01:06:15): That was gorgeous. Jared Correia (01:06:16): Thank you. Thank you. Kara Shannon (01:06:17): Wow. All right. Well, I think you just admitted that- Clip that and blackmail me. No business. There's no business like show business, my friend, and you just admitted it and you sang it. And I think it's time for you to make an appearance on Broadway. Jared Correia (01:06:31): I think so too. Here you go. Let's do it. Kara Shannon (01:06:32): I think you got the role. It's Jared Correia (01:06:33): Great. I want to be in the Bat Boys show. Yeah. I want to be Batboy. Keith Shannon (01:06:39): Oh, well, thanks.This worked. You showed quite a bit of knowledge about Broadway without even knowing it. Thank you. Yeah. Jared Correia (01:06:48): Dude, you don't have to be Batman, so I must be Batboy. (01:06:52): Just because I don't like musicals doesn't mean other people shouldn't like musicals. Go forth and watch musicals. There you go. Thanks to our guests, Keith Shannon of Central Piedmont Community College and Kara Shannon, a New York City based actor. To learn more about Keith and Central Piedmont, visit cpc.edu. Listen at convenient. CPC.edu. Now, because I'll always be a 90s kid or maybe just a 90s teen who hates Home Alone three, but his true passion is burning CDs for anyone who would listen. I'm now just doing the martyr version of that, which is creating Spotify playlist for every podcast that I record where the songs are tangentially related to an episode topic. This week's playlist is on stage. That's right. It's my favorite show tunes and is sponsored by Monkey Pod Kitchen. No way, it's not. It's like 11 degrees here, so I couldn't possibly be in Hawaii. (01:07:56): Join us next time. When I question why the hoppists just don't shave their feet, honestly, it's weird. They for sure have razors in Middle Earth.