Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Sisterhood Through Survival: How Deana Lynn & Lizzie Jane Turned Pain Into Purpose

Transcript

Sisterhood Through Survival: How Deana Lynn & Lizzie Jane Turned Pain Into Purpose · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

• 0:00
  I feel like we do tend to always try to be, especially for really
• 0:03
  nice people. We try to be the nice person.
• 0:07
  We try to not offend anybody. We try to not make them feel
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  bad, you know, So we get into these relationships and
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  sometimes we get into a relationship because they adore
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  us. We haven't even taken the time
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  to really figure out who they are and if we really respect and
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  admire them and if people in their life around them are
• 0:24
  healthy people that respect and admire them.
• 0:28
  We just get really fed by them putting us on a pedestal, which
• 0:32
  is exactly what narcissist and manipulators do.
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  They put you on a pedestal, make you feel like you're the most
• 0:38
  beautiful and amazing person, often way too quickly when they
• 0:42
  don't really don't know you yet. They love, boom.
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  And you fall in love with how much they love you.
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  You don't necessarily fall in love with them, right?
• 0:53
  Yeah, Yeah. You don't even know who they are
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  yet. They make sure to just feel all
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  feel your cup. Just like Lizzie said, You know,
• 1:02
  news flash, we were married to the same guy, right?
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  My, my 27 years, Lizzie's second.
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  And he took her shopping, Shopping and just normal things
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  with the kids and started becoming a family with her like
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  right away filled her cup, figured out what she needed for
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  her personal cup to be filled and.
• 1:24
  Filled it. Hello field podcast audience.
• 1:28
  Welcome back today. I'm your host, Melissa Crook and
• 1:31
  I've got a we've got the the double mint twins here.
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  We got the, you know, if you guys, if you guys are my age for
• 1:38
  you youngers, for you guys, 40 and under, you're like, what is
• 1:40
  she talking about? Ask your aunt's or your mom's or
• 1:43
  whatever. But I've got twice the fun here
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  today. Twice the incredible story
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  actually. And in there on the other side
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  of a journey that was very difficult and had a lot of
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  twists and turns to it. And the way that they came
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  together and, and, and work together now reads a little bit
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  like a Lifetime movie. I mean, there was something you
• 2:08
  might see on Netflix and our friends share.
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  My friend Cheryl Schultz, who's also the friend of Dina's,
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  introduced me. Cheryl and I are in the Fresno
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  County Women's Chamber of Commerce together.
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  And she and I met to get to know each other after I joined the
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  chamber a few months back. And I was weird just to see how
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  we could support each other. And you have also heard from her
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  this season a couple of weeks ago.
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  But she's like, oh, you've got to talk to my friend Dina Lynn.
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  She has got a podcast. She has got a story.
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  She and her friend Lizzie Jane, you got to meet them.
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  I'm like, OK. And so we did a few weeks later.
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  And boy, she was right. And these ladies have, like I
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  said, have quite an impactful story there.
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  Are we the the discussion of abuse will come up today because
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  this is a form of abuse that they were both involved in, in
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  this relationship that they were both involved in at a time in
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  their lives. But they found each other and
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  they supported each other and maybe even rescued each other a
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  little bit. And I will let them tell that
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  story. But I want to welcome Dina Lynn
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  and Lizzie Jane to the Field Podcast.
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  And before I let them get started, I'm going to let you
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  know what their character traits are that they shared with me
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  that they'd like to be introduced by.
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  Dina. Lynn describes herself as
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  energetic, extroverted, empathetic and motivated, and
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  Lizzie Jane describes herself as resilient, compassionate,
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  empowering and wise. Ladies, welcome to the Field
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  podcast. Thank you so much, Melissa.
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  Thank you. We're so glad to be here.
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  Oh yes, you know, I am. I can't wait to get into this
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  and we're going to get right into this.
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  We're going to start with prioritizing self-care in your
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  life, Dina. I'm going to start with you.
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  Talk to me about your journey with that.
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  Now would you like me to start talk about self-care?
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  You know when I was in this toxic relationship?
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  Is that kind of where we want to focus?
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  Yeah. Let's go ahead and do that.
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  And then also just kind of how you've evolved and where you are
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  today. Absolutely.
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  So just to start out, I was married to a very toxic sexually
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  addicted narcissist for 27 years and I had end up having 4 little
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  kids with him. And I tell you, self-care was
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  probably not honestly in existence.
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  There was no time, there was no space, there was no money.
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  He also had a financial problem and definitely a lot of
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  financial abuse in the relationship.
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  So self-care was not a thing that I even had ever heard of.
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  And I remember I did come to a point, you know, during that
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  time more than once where I was on the brink of what felt like a
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  nervous breakdown because, you know, sometimes I work two or
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  three jobs just to try to make up for the income that just
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  wasn't there. You know, it's for little kids
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  in itself is, is very challenging.
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  And you know, I grew up in a, in a home that we didn't, we didn't
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  have any money. There was never money.
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  So I did the best I could and worked as much as I could and
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  made the income that I could. But to be honest, I don't
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  remember really ever having self-care ever, because I
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  didn't. I didn't know how I I was a
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  giver. I was very empathetic, but to a
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  toxic level where I just took care of everybody and everything
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  in my life because it gave me value and people just needed me
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  and they would call me all the time.
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  I remember one time I actually had 52 phone calls in one day
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  from different people and yeah, ministries.
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  And I'd be put in charge of, of women's ministries that, you
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  know, that women were struggling with husbands who had some sort
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  of a sexual addiction. And I mean, it was like, I would
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  just, I couldn't say no ever. So moving from there to finally
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  being done with that relationship after 27 years, you
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  know, I went into another phase of my life where I started
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  realizing how important self-care was.
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  I went through a, a, a, a, a very complete job burnout where
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  I had end up getting a manager position, which was wonderful.
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  Kids were older, so they didn't need as much, you know, at home
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  time with mom. Things had settled down, found a
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  new husband who's love of my life still and things were
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  looking good, but I was giving my all, just like I always did
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  to this job. You know it's salary right?
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  So they expect you to work 24/7 and that's what I did.
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  It wasn't until I completely burned out in midlife and
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  actually had health issues from the burnout that I realized how
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  important self-care was and what it was.
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  I had to actually start searching for what that looked
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  like, what I needed, what did make me feel calm and relaxed
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  and more centered. And so from then to this day, I
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  have learned it is not just something that's nice and and
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  sweet and that you should do to treat yourself.
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  It is literally a lifeline. Especially when you get to the
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  age where your hormones are crazy, you know your body is
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  doing crazy things, it's never done before.
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  You've got joint problems, you might have back problems, you
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  might have migraines, you might have hormonal fluctuations, you
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  might not be sleeping at all. And all these things happen and
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  you've got to do something or you're not going to function.
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  And so self-care for me has become a complete lifeline.
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  And it is a complete myriad of the foofy things like maybe
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  getting a massage, you know, to the other spectrum of I
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  literally have got to learn how to not take on so much in my
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  life, how to give some things up, even if it means it's going
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  to cost me, even if it's going to be a little bit of financial
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  strain. And take control of my life and
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  give it order and that's. And Lucy knows I'm not there
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  yet. You know, now I have 4 kids plus
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  four step kids plus 12 grandchildren.
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  So my life is crazy still, sure. But it came to a point where I
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  burned out so badly in my job that I needed to actually leave
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  work altogether. That was the biggest point of
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  self-care that I have ever done, and it was terrifying.
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  But I tell you what, it brought all my cortisol levels down.
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  It brought all of my health issues into more of a manageable
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  state. Everything got better and I'm
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  able to thrive. So that's my self-care story.
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  Wow. And you've really?
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  Within that, the healthy boundaries piece, which is our
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  next talking point, but that really became you've already
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  really addressed that. That became a part of yourself
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  care journey, which so many times people I'm like, so
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  sending healthy boundaries for your time and yourself and
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  making sure you're not the first one that gets kicked out of your
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  calendar when things come up. That is, those things go
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  together. They do 100% they do.
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  And, you know, even toxic people in your life, I hate to say
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  that, but, you know, I mean, yeah, I, you know, left my ex,
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  but I didn't even realize that I, I was surrounded by toxic
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  people in my life who honestly were there because I was just
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  always there for them. And nobody was giving back.
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  Nobody was feeding into my life. Nobody was there when I called
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  and needed help if I wanted to call in and, you know, chat with
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  them or empty out my heart. And so I started having to set
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  boundaries even on the people in my life.
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  And that's that's really hard too.
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  It is. It is because you find out real
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  quick when you start making yourself a priority.
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  You find out real quick who's just been there to take and
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  who's actually there for you and wants authentically the best for
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  you, healthiest for you. Whatever that looks like becomes
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  real clear. And that can really be hurtful.
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  But it's also if you once you get through that hurtful piece,
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  you realize, Oh my gosh, I have got all this time all of a
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  sudden and the people that are in my life, they're pouring into
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  me too. Exactly, exactly.
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  Your life will look completely different if you can really zoom
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  out and truly take account of who truly is giving back into
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  your life and who's just constantly taking, Yeah. 1000%
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  All right, Lizzie, it is your turn.
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  Well, OK, so my self-care, it does look a little different
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  than Dina's. I think for me, I've been
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  married twice. So my first husband was married
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  14 years. I had four kids with them very
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  young, lots of abuse, and I got out of that after 14 years.
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  I was single for 10, then met my second husband.
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  It was like a whirlwind of a, of a, what would you call a
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  courtship of, you know, helping me get the kids to practice and
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  doing all kinds of stuff. So between that point, self-care
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  was surviving. But when I found out that my
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  second husband, something was off and I found out he was
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  pretty much having a, a double life, so to speak.
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  Actually, I started the divorce process before I found out he
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  was had a double life. And I think through my pain and
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  through that trauma situation, I really journaled.
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  I ended up doing because it I am.
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  This is where Dean and I are really different.
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  She is an extrovert. I'm an introvert.
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  So I need to rejuvenate alone very quietly.
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  So I started journaling. I did journal to God.
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  I did I, but I also in my darkest times, I would put three
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  blessings or three things to be grateful for.
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  And sometimes it was just something as simple as just
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  waking up at night, waking up to go to work or getting through
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  the work day. But I did find that those things
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  helped me with my mental self-care, self-care and it did
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  help me carry through the trauma.
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  And even to this day, I don't, I don't journal every day like I
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  used to for myself care purposes.
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  I do a lot more of like meditation, prayer, and just
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  focus. I have to be quiet.
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  I have to find that through journaling and being quiet, I
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  can really hear my body. I can tell when my body needs to
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  shut down. I can tell when I need to get
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  some rest. I could tell when my body is
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  even fighting something because I can start feeling the fatigue.
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  And I think if I don't have those quiet moments, I won't be
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  able to hear what the needs of my body is.
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  So it's kind of my self-care journey right there.
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  Well, you bet you have. And I'd say the boundaries tie
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  in really nicely here too for you, because you recognize I
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  need to make time for the quiet so I can shut down all the
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  noise. And because there's so much
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  noise in our lives and we can we operate so disassociated from
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  our bodies for so as women so many times for so many years,
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  which is honestly for both of you, part probably played a
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  role, I would imagine. I don't let you speak to this,
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  but I'm in getting into the relationships you got into
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  because you weren't listening to your body in the cues that she
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  was probably trying to send you about this.
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  And we'll let you speak to that in a moment when we talk about
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  that emotional, mental, physical health connections.
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  But that piece took took boundaries.
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  And then, but I think it's such a an important point that you
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  recognize to that because when you've been in a abusive
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  relationships, there's no room for you.
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  You mentioned earlier you were in survival mode.
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  And then classic narcissist. They come in, they sweep you off
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  your feet. They become this Angel helper
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  helping you take care of the kids and run them all the
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  places. Oh my.
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  I bet my night in shiny normal, blah, blah, blah.
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  And then once they've got you, then the mask comes off and
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  you're in it. And, and so all of those, you
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  know, all these things that that would protect you, paying
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  attention and listening to those body cues and having those
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  healthy boundaries around that time don't exist until you're
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  like, you're in it and you're like, oh, shoot, I hate that
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  it's not going. Would you would you say that's
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  true for you? Yes, 100%.
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  And then especially when you get out and you start getting out of
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  that, the brain fog of everything, and you don't get
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  out of the brain fog until you're out of the relationship
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  because then I think you're constantly in that emotional
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  whiplash that's never ending. And some people do choose to
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  stay. But I also believe that it's
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  something you're going to have to understand.
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  You will have a brain fog. You got to understand what
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  you're going through. That's part of self-care.
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  If you decide to stay in a relationship, that's not ideal
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  because we're deed and I both come from our background from
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  church where, you know, once married, always married.
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  So we probably did stick it out longer than the norm, you know,
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  and a lot of these people, women, they, there's some of
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  them still are in it. So self-care is going to look
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  really different. The question is, are they able
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  to realize that what they need is self-care to see through the
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  fog? Yeah.
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  Oh, that's a really good point. Anything else that you want to
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  add Lizzie to the boundaries piece?
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  And I'll give you a chance to Dean as well before we move into
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  talking about that emotional, mental, physical, spiritual
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  health connection. I think for me, boundaries, I
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  had to learn what boundaries were.
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  I think, I think that's part of being when we stay stuck in
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  those types of toxic relationships, no matter what
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  they are, we don't know what our boundaries should look like.
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  And so first, learning that boundaries can help build
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  relationships. Yes, they're doors with locks
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  that we get to manage. And then learning to say no
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  doesn't make you unloving or unkind or not empathetic.
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  So I think that's part of the whole boundary process.
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  But at the same time, you're learning to respect your own
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  internal self and your own mental and health well-being,
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  which will go to the next part. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
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  Dina, how about you? Anything to add?
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  You know, I just want to add that if we, especially as women,
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  because women do tend to be more victimized, there are definitely
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  men that are too. So I 100% have seen that in my
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  own life and family. But we really need to understand
• 17:30
  what boundaries are. And I mean, if you have to read
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  the book called boundaries, if you have to do research, if you
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  have to really understand it deeply because you can't just
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  understand, OK, boundaries are making wise choices for yourself
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  or boundaries are saying no, if you're exhausted and you
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  shouldn't take on that extra task.
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  But it's more important. There are predators everywhere
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  in this world right now, everywhere.
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  And the most insidious predator is the one that wants to get a
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  relationship with you, marry you, become legally bound with
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  you, and then just suck you dry. And if you have children, your
• 18:06
  children are not exempt to being, you know, abused or
• 18:09
  completely drained of anything they might have.
• 18:13
  And so really understand, please be so, so clear.
• 18:17
  What do boundaries look like when protecting ourselves from
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  people that pretend to be one thing and they're not?
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  And that could be people in your church or in your community or
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  at your school. And then training your children
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  also to understand that what are boundaries?
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  What do they look like? Because I, I feel like we do
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  tend to always try to be, especially for really nice
• 18:37
  people. We try to be the nice person.
• 18:40
  We try to not offend anybody. We try to not make them feel
• 18:43
  feel bad, you know, So we get into these relationships and
• 18:47
  sometimes we get into a relationship because they adore
• 18:49
  us. We haven't even taken the time
• 18:52
  to really figure out who they are and if we really respect and
• 18:55
  admire them and if people in their life around them are
• 18:58
  healthy people that respect and admire them.
• 19:01
  We just get really fed by them putting us on a pedestal, which
• 19:05
  is exactly what narcissists and manipulators do.
• 19:08
  They put you on a pedestal, make you feel like you're the most
• 19:11
  beautiful and amazing person, often way too quickly when they
• 19:15
  don't really don't know you yet. They love boom.
• 19:19
  And you fall in love with how much they love you.
• 19:23
  You don't necessarily fall in love with them, right?
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  Because yeah, yeah, you don't even know who they are yet.
• 19:30
  They make sure to just feel all feel your cup.
• 19:33
  Just like Lizzie said. You know, news flash, we were
• 19:37
  married to the same guy, right? My, my 27 years.
• 19:40
  Lizzie's second and he took her shopping, shopping and just
• 19:46
  normal things with the kids and started becoming a family with
• 19:50
  her. Like right away filled her cup,
• 19:53
  figured out what she needed for her personal cup to be filled
• 19:57
  and filled it see. And so again, really
• 20:01
  understanding what do predators do?
• 20:03
  What do they look like? What are some really strong
• 20:06
  science to look for? That would be the most important
• 20:08
  boundary I want to convey to all of you out there.
• 20:11
  Please know what you're looking for.
• 20:16
  Yeah. And what you know, it just goes
• 20:18
  back to that importance of have knowing your value and knowing
• 20:25
  that you don't need Someone Like You may want desire to have a
• 20:30
  relationship and but it but you and it never feels like a need.
• 20:34
  It feels like a choice. It feels like yeah and yes, it
• 20:38
  might hurt if this person left, but I know I'll be OK versus Oh
• 20:43
  my gosh, if they I, I will not make it if they leave.
• 20:45
  I I need them. And and we'll talk about that
• 20:48
  more when we talk about relationships later.
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  But I think you that trusting yourself, listen to your
• 20:54
  intuition. You get talk back to what Lizzie
• 20:58
  said, get quiet, pay attention. And just those clues, Dina, such
• 21:02
  good clues are like, if this is going faster than you think it
• 21:06
  should and then get curious about that.
• 21:09
  And I mean because those are If it seems too good to be true, it
• 21:14
  might be too good to be true. Exactly.
• 21:19
  Well said. Yeah, Oh my gosh.
• 21:22
  I love what you said about you were in love with the way then
• 21:27
  the way they're loving you, the way they're showing up for you.
• 21:29
  You're not actually in. That is such an important point
• 21:33
  as you're thinking about how you feel about this person, Oh man,
• 21:37
  ask yourself that question. That was so good, such a good
• 21:40
  point. OK, Taking care of our emotional
• 21:44
  health, our mental health, our physical health.
• 21:47
  You all have both talked a bit about this a little bit already
• 21:51
  in your journeys, how these impacts have come up for you
• 21:55
  when you've pushed too hard and it started showing up and
• 21:58
  manifesting itself in other ways.
• 22:01
  Lizzie, talk to me about your journey with that and where, and
• 22:05
  I mean, you've already tended to it, that that ability to get
• 22:09
  quiet so you can hear and listen to your body.
• 22:13
  Talk to me about that pivotal point where you you kind of you
• 22:17
  realized that was necessary for you.
• 22:21
  I think when it was when I started to get extremely ill
• 22:28
  constantly, which is not uncommon when you go through a
• 22:31
  lot of emotional trauma, emotional stress.
• 22:35
  Even though I was quiet and listening to myself, I was still
• 22:38
  pushing myself to survive. And I think that that, you know,
• 22:42
  journaling definitely helped with the mental health,
• 22:44
  especially when you realize you've been gaslighted, you
• 22:47
  know, because it kind of let you go back and look at things as
• 22:50
  far as, oh, wait a minute, I did see it this way.
• 22:54
  He's trying to tell me it happened this way.
• 22:56
  I know it happened the way I saw it, but I think all of those
• 23:00
  kind of played into to to fruition for me.
• 23:04
  Like I said, my emotional health, just I think the
• 23:08
  survival because we got to a point where we were also looking
• 23:12
  for the other woman. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:17
  We found out five days after my divorce that he was leading a
• 23:21
  double life while he was still married and living with me and
• 23:25
  something in US told us to search for her.
• 23:28
  Well, with all that stress and tension, I mean, I kept trying
• 23:33
  to survive and go to work and deal with the emotional trauma.
• 23:37
  I was not in a place that I was called would have called home
• 23:40
  because I didn't have a lot of like friends physically
• 23:43
  surrounding me. I probably looked like a nut
• 23:45
  case, right? Because emotional health does
• 23:47
  that when you're going through trauma.
• 23:49
  And through that, I went through a lot of physical health issues
• 23:54
  that just continually dragged me down, including, I mean, we all
• 23:59
  had probably a little form of COVID or lots of COVID, but it
• 24:04
  ended up like compromising my lungs and other issues and, and
• 24:08
  my whole respiratory and, and it took me probably years to
• 24:14
  recover from all of that. But that to me is evidence of
• 24:19
  emotional health and how it breaks down your immune system.
• 24:24
  I don't get sick as often. But I've also, because of the
• 24:28
  the journey, I have learned that if I don't sit quietly and
• 24:32
  really listen to what's going through my body, the
• 24:35
  repercussions, I think even Dina says it knocks me down, not just
• 24:39
  for a day or two, it'll knock me down possibly for a month.
• 24:42
  So it's really critical, especially if you're coming out
• 24:45
  of that type of trauma, to really learn who you are.
• 24:49
  Yeah. Well, it's just that, you know,
• 24:52
  our bodies are not designed to run in hyper vigilant spider
• 24:56
  flight, cortisol levels through the roof all the time.
• 24:59
  We're not, that's not what we're made for.
• 25:02
  We're not, we're not made to be continually running from the
• 25:05
  lion without any brick from the lion.
• 25:07
  I mean, that's essentially what happens.
• 25:11
  Dina talked to me. Yeah.
• 25:12
  OK. Thank you for that, Lizzie.
• 25:14
  So good. OK, Dina, you mentioned, you
• 25:17
  know, one, you're cut. You came out of this
• 25:18
  relationship, but then you went into this burnout from your
• 25:22
  jobs. You kind of had almost Tier 1
• 25:25
  and Tier 2. I feel like a little bit
• 25:27
  happening here with your emotional, mental, physical,
• 25:30
  spiritual health kind of colliding when things weren't
• 25:33
  being tended to. So talk to me about that, those
• 25:36
  parts of the journey. So, yeah, so ironically, during
• 25:44
  the time that I was burning out on my job, it was partly because
• 25:48
  I had a very toxic, narcissistic boss.
• 25:51
  Wow, Rose up to the position over me and and before we were
• 25:58
  the same position. And then she rose up and became
• 26:02
  my boss. And at that point I didn't even
• 26:06
  realize it, but she had decided that I was going to be gone from
• 26:09
  the company. And I'd been there at that point
• 26:11
  for about four years, I would say.
• 26:15
  And you know, I being very naive still, I just did not recognize
• 26:20
  the signs because while we were Co managers, we got along just
• 26:23
  fine. There was no problem.
• 26:25
  I liked her. I like everybody.
• 26:26
  And I always think everybody's got good intentions.
• 26:28
  And I never look at people like they might, they might be evil.
• 26:32
  And so that unfortunately played into all of the the job burnout
• 26:37
  was the fact that there was a target on my back.
• 26:40
  And she was, she was definitely a covert narcissist because the
• 26:44
  things that she did were so sly and quiet that I don't think I
• 26:48
  could have ever gone to HR. Now, looking back now, I could
• 26:52
  have because there was a pattern of many, many, many things, but
• 26:56
  they were like, here's an example.
• 26:59
  I had won an award and my previous director that he was
• 27:03
  retiring and that's why she took his place.
• 27:05
  He was retiring and he said you actually, you know, got the
• 27:09
  highest employee satisfaction awards for your management.
• 27:12
  He's like, congratulations. And I was like, Oh my gosh,
• 27:14
  amazing. Well, next thing I know, I'm in
• 27:18
  a meeting and she stands up and congratulates me.
• 27:21
  So for being most improved. So it was like a compliment, but
• 27:26
  like a slap in the face and then was talking about.
• 27:29
  Like you had. What to do?
• 27:32
  Yeah, like, yeah, she was talking about her team's
• 27:34
  employee satisfaction scores, which they'd only been, you
• 27:39
  know, on her team for about a month.
• 27:41
  And this is something they measure for an entire year.
• 27:44
  But it was just those types of things.
• 27:45
  It was like, you know, it'd be little backhanded compliments
• 27:49
  that were actually slaps in the face.
• 27:51
  It would be little. Oh, you didn't get the memo for
• 27:53
  the meeting with the CFO. Oh, well, that's too bad you
• 27:57
  didn't make it. Like, he was pretty upset.
• 27:59
  It's, it was sabotage, sabotage, sabotage, sabotage.
• 28:03
  I tell you what, once again, I did not know how to process all
• 28:07
  those emotions. I had just come out of my
• 28:09
  previous relationship maybe 2 years prior and dealing with
• 28:16
  him. The previous relationship that
• 28:18
  Lizzie and I shared him filing bankruptcy as well after I
• 28:22
  barely got everything paid off that we had, you know, the debt,
• 28:26
  we split the debt, even though I didn't create most of the debt,
• 28:29
  we split it. I paid my part off.
• 28:31
  My credit start coming up. I was so excited.
• 28:33
  I was so happy. It was like amazing.
• 28:35
  And then he files bankruptcy. So he filed bankruptcy, which
• 28:39
  drug my credit in the toilet, which I had no clue that was
• 28:43
  possible because we've been divorced a couple of years.
• 28:45
  But any credit card or any payment, and that's both of your
• 28:49
  names, if they file bankruptcy, if your name's not off it, those
• 28:53
  creditors are coming after you. So long story, but I'm trying to
• 28:56
  just make a point that I was going through all that at the
• 28:58
  same time. And next thing I knew, I was
• 29:02
  physically crashing. I was shaking all the time.
• 29:05
  My adrenaline system was off the charts.
• 29:09
  I mean, I was, I was starving, my blood sugar was crashing.
• 29:13
  You know, it was just, it was like you said, the cortisol, the
• 29:17
  lion chasing you for too many years.
• 29:20
  It just couldn't happen anymore. So finding those ways to process
• 29:24
  the emotions. I know I love how Lizzie does
• 29:28
  it. I love how she was journaling a
• 29:29
  whole lot back then. And that was her way of I'm not
• 29:32
  really a journaler. Like I'm very ADD so I get
• 29:35
  bored. So I, so for me, it's, it's
• 29:38
  really just probably sitting down and just having a
• 29:43
  conversation like I need to talk things out, you know, I got to
• 29:46
  talk things out. I need someone to just sit and
• 29:49
  listen to me, as you can probably tell.
• 29:51
  And that's what, that's how I, that's how I was able to sit
• 29:54
  down and process. And luckily my second husband is
• 29:57
  wonderful and he would listen to me talk and as I would talk
• 30:01
  about things that were happening at work or things, you know,
• 30:04
  that I was feeling, and he would just validate me, you know?
• 30:07
  And then Lizzie and I we're, you know, not quite friends yet, but
• 30:12
  even now we're such good friends that I can like bounce stuff off
• 30:16
  her and just tell her, you know, just basically vomit all the
• 30:20
  stuff I'm going through. And that helps me hear what I'm
• 30:23
  saying, which is why therapy is so valuable, right?
• 30:25
  Because. It's really.
• 30:27
  Yeah, you hearing what you're saying and you hearing the
• 30:30
  unraveling of your thoughts and emotions to help you kind of
• 30:34
  make sense of it so that you can process it.
• 30:37
  So that's how I, you know, take care of those things.
• 30:41
  Yeah, process it so you don't stuff it and get stuck again so
• 30:44
  you don't end up back to square one.
• 30:46
  Such an important point. All right, we're going into now.
• 30:51
  We're supporting ourselves and other women in Living
• 30:53
  Unapologetically. Part 1, Well, we'll get to Part
• 30:57
  1 in a minute. Part 2 is you all doing this
• 31:00
  podcast together, which we're going to give you a chance to
• 31:03
  talk about at the end. This is really you taking your
• 31:06
  stories together and being like, we can be a source and a support
• 31:10
  and resource for other people and hopefully help them either
• 31:15
  get out of or avoid altogether these situations.
• 31:19
  But to get to that point, Dina, you had to to take some steps in
• 31:25
  realizing this woman might need my help, my support.
• 31:31
  I something. So tell me the story of both of
• 31:36
  you. Start with Dina and you tell the
• 31:38
  story of how you all came together.
• 31:42
  All right, well, here's the story.
• 31:44
  So I had been divorced from, we call him Rex RX.
• 31:49
  I'd been divorced from him for six years.
• 31:52
  And I knew about Lizzie, of course, because she was, even
• 31:57
  though my kids were grown, she was their stepmom.
• 31:59
  And they, you know, would occasionally go visit dad and go
• 32:02
  to her house and, and they would tell me she's a wonderful lady,
• 32:05
  mom. Like she's really wonderful
• 32:07
  lady. I don't think dad treats her
• 32:08
  right, but she's wonderful. And I would feel that kind of
• 32:13
  sting of guilt, like should I have told her?
• 32:15
  Should I have told her about him?
• 32:17
  You know, I mean, the things he did, the things he did, you
• 32:21
  know, in in secret, in the dark. We won't go into their
• 32:24
  disgusting, but there's so many things.
• 32:26
  And he started off their relationship with a complete
• 32:29
  lie, telling her that she that he and I have been divorced for
• 32:33
  two years. We weren't even divorced, you
• 32:34
  know, yet telling her that I was in another state.
• 32:38
  I was right there in his same state.
• 32:41
  And on and on it goes. So when it came time, there's
• 32:46
  there's a day that came and my son called me and he said, mom,
• 32:50
  Lizzie's leaving dad. I'm pretty sure she's leaving
• 32:52
  dad. Like she's she's really upset.
• 32:55
  And he said, I think you should call her and I think you should
• 32:58
  tell her everything you went through.
• 33:00
  I think that would really be helpful for her.
• 33:03
  And, and I'd asked him, you know, Are you sure?
• 33:06
  Because I wanted to make sure that she didn't think I was just
• 33:08
  the crazy ex. And he's like, no, I really
• 33:11
  think she'd listen to you. So I did.
• 33:14
  I reached out to Lizzie and just made open the door for us to
• 33:18
  talk. And that led to us talking for
• 33:23
  hours. I think it was that first time.
• 33:25
  And I remember just sitting on the floor with my back against
• 33:28
  the wall and just telling her everything because I wanted so
• 33:33
  bad to rescue her from what I'd been through, you know, I didn't
• 33:37
  want her to go through another 21 years of this kind of hell,
• 33:41
  you know? And, and so it was really
• 33:45
  cathartic for me. I know for sure for her too, but
• 33:50
  also for me, because it was so validating because after that
• 33:54
  much time in a relationship, even though you're pretty
• 33:57
  positive that they're that's who they are, they're not going to
• 33:59
  change. You do just kind of wonder like,
• 34:02
  like, did I invest all that time and all of that hard work?
• 34:06
  I mean, we went to counseling left and right.
• 34:08
  I mean, we had the work that was put in was incredible.
• 34:13
  And to throw that out, you know, was really tough.
• 34:17
  And so it was really helpful to know that, you know what, he
• 34:21
  would do it to her, and she's a wonderful lady, and he would do
• 34:25
  the exact same thing. So definitely very clear here
• 34:29
  who the culprit is. And it's very validating to you
• 34:32
  that you can truly move on and realize there never would have
• 34:36
  been anything good there. Yeah.
• 34:37
  So. Yeah.
• 34:38
  There was nothing to say and good on your on your side.
• 34:41
  I mean, I think that, you know, that tells me that you raised
• 34:45
  some really, really kind and pathetic kids too, because that
• 34:52
  is not a story you hear every day.
• 34:55
  And, and So what an impact that had.
• 34:58
  Lucy, what was that like when she called you the first time?
• 35:02
  I mean, did the kids give you any heads up?
• 35:05
  You know, we think we you should talk to our mom.
• 35:07
  Or was this a total surprise? No, because he he asked would it
• 35:12
  be OK if I let my mom know? She understands.
• 35:16
  She lived with him for 27 years and she knows who he is.
• 35:19
  But I want to make sure that you're OK with that, you know,
• 35:22
  because he doesn't want to do something and step on my toes or
• 35:25
  whatever. Like do I have to loosen that
• 35:28
  one? Like, because one thing I did
• 35:31
  always feel that Dina was also a very good woman, even though I
• 35:35
  knew that Rex kind of probably woven some stuff in, especially
• 35:41
  like things that kind of fell apart at the end.
• 35:44
  So when she actually she first texted me and she said, you're
• 35:48
  not crazy, you're not alone. She validated what I was
• 35:54
  experiencing because at that point I had already just moved.
• 35:56
  I I moved out like, but I didn't know exactly what I was doing.
• 36:00
  I just wanted I had called the oldest son just to let him know
• 36:05
  that I'd left their father. There was some concerns there
• 36:07
  and I felt like they needed to know because obviously his
• 36:11
  ex-wife doesn't need to know this stuff.
• 36:13
  But then when she he messaged me, it was, you know, game
• 36:16
  changer. And then we talked, I think a
• 36:18
  couple of days later and it's really interesting.
• 36:20
  I'm in a house with nothing. I pretty much walked away with
• 36:23
  everything from everything. And I'm like Dina.
• 36:27
  Dina was sitting on the wall and the floor where is and I was
• 36:30
  sitting in the corner of the house and we were talking
• 36:34
  non-stop and she was telling me things.
• 36:37
  And at that point, I knew that my separation was going to be a
• 36:41
  divorce. Like things started adding up.
• 36:44
  I'm going, OK, you have that much history.
• 36:47
  I already had a horrible gut feeling.
• 36:49
  And I didn't know about the double life at that point.
• 36:52
  But I was like, I spent 14 years of abuse with my first husband.
• 36:57
  I left him probably five times. There was no way I was going to
• 37:02
  go through this my second time around because I've been there,
• 37:06
  done that. And I know Dina was so concerned
• 37:09
  that I'd keep going back because that's what she did.
• 37:11
  But I was like, but I did that with my first marriage, right?
• 37:15
  You know, you learn a little more hopefully with the second
• 37:18
  time around. Obviously, obviously I did learn
• 37:22
  everything. But I did learn that I at our
• 37:26
  age and we were 50, what you know, no.
• 37:31
  So yeah, that's where that all started.
• 37:34
  And it was it was very affirming.
• 37:38
  And I remember telling Dina, we're going to tell our story to
• 37:41
  the world. We are.
• 37:44
  We're going to tell our story to the world, especially when we
• 37:47
  found out about this other person that was had no idea that
• 37:51
  she was with somebody that was leading a double life.
• 37:56
  Wow, wow. I mean, I and your kudos to both
• 38:00
  of you, but I think this is where your kind hearts and your
• 38:04
  empathy won because you were able to show up for each other
• 38:09
  without spite, in malice and all those things.
• 38:14
  And So what I think is so beautiful with the both of you
• 38:17
  is that despite these harmful relationship dynamics, it didn't
• 38:22
  steal your soul. And that can happen in these
• 38:25
  things. It can make you very bitter and
• 38:28
  very disenchanted with life and very angry.
• 38:32
  And I'm sure that some of that is exists that you've had to
• 38:35
  work through that at your core, of course, you were still able
• 38:39
  to stay true to who you are. And I think that's remarkable.
• 38:45
  And I think you hit the nail on the head because even Dina and I
• 38:49
  with this journey, I think when we want to look at what are we
• 38:51
  doing with other women, we are now passionate not just to share
• 38:54
  a story, but to really help people learn how to escape the
• 38:57
  bull. Because I lost a good friend
• 38:59
  from domestic violence and he was never physically abusive.
• 39:02
  It was all mental. And so it's like people need to
• 39:07
  look at these warning signs. And I think it's really, I think
• 39:11
  what does make us different is the fact that we aren't gender
• 39:16
  bashing. We didn't stay in a, we didn't
• 39:19
  stay in a lifetime of anger and bitterness or victim mentality.
• 39:24
  That doesn't mean we weren't there at one time.
• 39:26
  Like you said it, though, I think that was a whole natural
• 39:29
  process to go through. But the, the key element is you
• 39:32
  don't stay stuck there and to find strategies to make sure
• 39:36
  that you can rise up from the, from the pain.
• 39:40
  So that way you can live a healthy life.
• 39:42
  Because I've seen victims from severe abuse becomes live in
• 39:48
  such a victim mentality and so much anger that they're
• 39:51
  uncomfortable to be with. Like, yeah.
• 39:54
  So now they're becoming the toxic, toxic person because
• 39:57
  they're not really facing their issues or their, you know, their
• 40:00
  pain and their trauma. Yeah.
• 40:02
  I mean, hurt people hurt people. I mean, it's it's, it's, it's a
• 40:06
  true fact. Somebody I've heard of a couple
• 40:10
  people say it in this way and it's, it's a very startling, but
• 40:14
  I think accurate visual. Your wounds bleed all over
• 40:18
  everybody else if you're not able to tend to your wounds and
• 40:22
  and so you know, so for the both of you to have that awareness
• 40:26
  because you know what happened, unfortunately for you, Lizzie,
• 40:31
  what happened is not an unfortunate thing.
• 40:33
  You were in a vulnerable state. You come out of this abusive
• 40:35
  relationship, you have these children, you're in a vulnerable
• 40:38
  state. He saw that vulnerability and he
• 40:40
  went right in and took advantage of that.
• 40:43
  And that's not an unusual pattern.
• 40:47
  Dina, you have the heart and be like, no, no, no, we got to stop
• 40:50
  this pattern. Talk to me about jointly if you
• 40:54
  can and you may not be able to and if you can't, that's totally
• 40:56
  really fine too. Your conversation or was there
• 40:59
  ever a conversation with that third woman to or were you not
• 41:04
  able to? Oh, yeah.
• 41:06
  Oh, yeah. We can talk about it.
• 41:07
  Yeah, we can talk about it. Yeah.
• 41:09
  So there was. So, you know, when Lizzie and I
• 41:12
  connected, it wasn't long after we connected and became friends
• 41:15
  that she went to pick up her things from Rex's house and
• 41:20
  found these cards and letters and pictures and dates even, you
• 41:25
  know, of him having this life with this other woman.
• 41:28
  And it took us a little while, but we finally found her on
• 41:31
  Facebook and didn't see him in any of her Facebook pictures.
• 41:36
  But we could tell that she was just a lovely lady, just just
• 41:40
  wonderful. Had grown kids like us a lot of
• 41:43
  similarities a faith-based woman like we are and and so we we set
• 41:50
  out like we know that we know that Rex as soon as Lizzie and
• 41:54
  he divorced. We know that he's going to
• 41:55
  probably if he because you know, we looking at the dates, he'd
• 41:58
  been with her at this point for almost a year and we knew that
• 42:03
  he's going to try to marry her immediately because that's what
• 42:05
  he does dupe you and become a family with you and marry you.
• 42:10
  And so it took us gosh, how long did it take Lizzie before we
• 42:14
  caught up with him or with her? Well, she so we we reached out
• 42:20
  and then how many weeks was it? I don't.
• 42:22
  I can't remember until she reached out back to us.
• 42:25
  OK, so I, I, Dean always laughs at me because I have dates.
• 42:29
  So you're looking at June 2nd she messaged we call her Jane
• 42:34
  and on Facebook Messenger. But it was 5 weeks later that
• 42:39
  she finally saw it. And then do you know that's your
• 42:43
  story? OK, yeah, so, so because we
• 42:48
  couldn't find her, we couldn't get a message to her.
• 42:52
  We tried and tried. I just left her a Facebook
• 42:55
  message. Of course, we weren't friends on
• 42:57
  Facebook, so I might go somewhere weird, but I'm going
• 43:00
  to leave her a message. And in essence, it said, hey,
• 43:03
  listen, Jane, when you find this, Lizzie and I just want you
• 43:08
  to know that we can tell that you're a wonderful person.
• 43:12
  And we don't know if you're still with Rex or not, but we
• 43:15
  want to let you know that we're pretty positive you had no idea
• 43:19
  he was married when you were dating him.
• 43:22
  And when you find this, please reach out.
• 43:26
  And if you want to, you don't have to.
• 43:29
  We're not angry, we hold nothing against you.
• 43:31
  This is literally for your own help and support.
• 43:35
  But if you want to reach out, please do so Then like Lizzy
• 43:40
  said, it was 5 weeks later that she reached out and the phone
• 43:45
  call was pretty crazy because she was completely confused.
• 43:51
  She she asked if it is this Dina and I said yes.
• 43:56
  Now I knew who she was because it popped up on the on the call
• 43:59
  on Facebook. And she said OK And I said you
• 44:05
  know who I am. She said yes.
• 44:08
  And I said are you still with Rex?
• 44:10
  And she said yes. She said I know you're with him
• 44:13
  for this many years. I know you guys have 4 kids.
• 44:17
  She's like, I know all about you, who is Lizzie?
• 44:24
  And she was so confused. So he had just cut Lizzie out of
• 44:27
  the history. Of his.
• 44:30
  Life and told her he'd been single for six years and had
• 44:34
  been making yeah, making a family with her and her children
• 44:38
  and her mom and her and her entire family and this poor
• 44:43
  lady, this poor Jane was so confused as to how in the world
• 44:47
  he could have been married all that time.
• 44:50
  And she started asking questions.
• 44:52
  Now she's getting hysterical. Now she's you can hear just the
• 44:55
  absolute terror rising up in her voice.
• 44:58
  She's like, where does Lizzie live?
• 45:00
  You know what's going on the House.
• 45:02
  She's like, I've driven by his house where he takes care of
• 45:05
  that little old couple. And she's like, was that really
• 45:08
  Lizzie's house? I said, yes, that was their
• 45:11
  house where they live. There's no old couple.
• 45:13
  He's not taking care of an old couple.
• 45:16
  And then she gets like really hysterical and she's like the
• 45:18
  red coat. That the little old lady gave
• 45:20
  me. Is that Lizzie's?
• 45:23
  And I was like. Probably.
• 45:24
  Probably Lizzie. And she's just beside herself.
• 45:29
  And then she's. Then it dawns on her that her
• 45:33
  son is on a motorcycle ride right then and there with Rex.
• 45:37
  They're on a on a road trip together, and she's realizing I
• 45:41
  don't even know who this man is. And by the way, they had just
• 45:44
  gotten married. So we caught up.
• 45:49
  Actually, before Dina keeps going, I just want to say that
• 45:52
  Dina, she sent that Facebook message message.
• 45:55
  If she had seen it on that day, she would have learned the truth
• 45:58
  because she married him the day after that message was sent on
• 46:02
  Facebook. Shoot, but also short enough
• 46:08
  time to get an annulment, but I don't want to assume anything
• 46:10
  happened. Yeah, so that's exactly what
• 46:14
  happened. You know, they, he, Rex was on
• 46:17
  this trip for two more days or so, two more days or so with her
• 46:21
  son. And of course, she's, she's
• 46:23
  literally freaking out and, you know, asking us what kind of
• 46:27
  person this is. And we're reassuring her he's
• 46:29
  not going to harm your son, you know, that kind of thing.
• 46:31
  He's crazy in a lot of ways. And so two days later, by the
• 46:37
  time he pulls back in the driveway with her son, she'd
• 46:41
  been in constant communication with him and telling him that
• 46:44
  she and her mom and all the family, we're going to gather to
• 46:48
  celebrate them coming home from their bike ride.
• 46:50
  They're gonna have a big dinner. It's going to be wonderful.
• 46:53
  So keep me posted, honey, when you're going to get here.
• 46:57
  And this little sassy lady was a hairdresser and she knew
• 47:02
  everybody in her small town. And she, when he pulled in, she
• 47:06
  had police escort him in to the driveway.
• 47:11
  She had an annulment. She had a restraining order, and
• 47:13
  she had a court date. And his car was packed.
• 47:17
  And he gets off that pipe and the police hand him everything,
• 47:22
  and they're like, get out, get out, don't ever see her again.
• 47:27
  And then, of course, he starts yelling toward the house, hiding
• 47:30
  it to tell my side of the story. And yeah, the rest is history.
• 47:35
  Except for the fact that the minute the annulment went
• 47:39
  through, he moved off to another state and married one of his
• 47:43
  sister's friends. Oh my.
• 47:45
  Gosh, he's just a serial. Breather.
• 47:49
  Yes, yes, wow, wow, wow. OK, so let's move into your why
• 48:03
  and your values. You all have very clearly have
• 48:06
  big hearts with a why of caring for others, but you've learned
• 48:11
  how to do it in a healthy way. So talk to me about that.
• 48:15
  That where your why and your values played a role in you all
• 48:19
  deciding because Lizzie, you made that statement at one
• 48:22
  point. We're going to talk, we're going
• 48:24
  to tell our story and we're going to we're going to we're
• 48:26
  going to help people with this. When did you realize that that
• 48:30
  would take the form of the podcast?
• 48:34
  Well, I figured it would be blogs and everything else
• 48:37
  because me as the introvert. You know.
• 48:40
  Speaking or just more of the writing process of everything.
• 48:45
  And then you know, I'm like Dina, you're coming with me.
• 48:50
  We're going to do this together because we'd be a mighty team.
• 48:54
  And we found out that he had a type.
• 48:57
  And no matter what, you know, she's the extrovert, I'm the
• 49:00
  introvert. We have so much in common that
• 49:03
  that's why we could spend hours on the phone.
• 49:05
  That's why we can enjoy ourselves together in quiet or
• 49:10
  doing something. But that was the beauty of it,
• 49:13
  obviously. But then it was Dina.
• 49:16
  She said, why don't we not do a blog, but let's do a podcast.
• 49:20
  And then it was my turn to go OK, because first put me in
• 49:25
  front of the mic. I was petrified.
• 49:28
  I'll let Dina take it from here. And then that turned into
• 49:31
  YouTube. And so she couldn't even be in
• 49:36
  the background, just her voice. Like now we have this thriving
• 49:39
  YouTube channel that we started. So we use all our videos for
• 49:42
  that. Yeah.
• 49:43
  So. Talk to me about the impact that
• 49:48
  that has had for you in your own journeys of healing, but also
• 49:53
  realizing, man, this didn't all go to waste.
• 49:57
  Like we have tools and resources to help other people see this
• 50:04
  now and and get out of this and give that and give them the
• 50:07
  support that they need. It, it was kind of interesting
• 50:12
  because not too long ago someone said, Oh, you found your
• 50:15
  calling. And as weird as it may have
• 50:18
  sound, I sounded, I felt like all of my journey brought me to
• 50:22
  this place because I love what I'm doing and I love reaching
• 50:26
  the beautiful women that we've met so far, even though they're
• 50:30
  they may be in really dark places.
• 50:32
  It's seeing those aha moments or I am not alone because anybody
• 50:37
  that's journeyed through this, that feeling of loneliness, it's
• 50:41
  hard because your immediate circle of who you talk to may
• 50:45
  not understand because they've not been there.
• 50:47
  But the beautiful thing with technology now is we can spread
• 50:51
  it farther and louder. And these people realize that
• 50:56
  there are other women that can connect with them.
• 50:58
  And then but like Dina said, right now, we focus on the women
• 51:03
  it it really rejuvenates. It really makes the journey of
• 51:08
  heartache and pain. I know me sound crazy Worth it,
• 51:14
  worth it. Like I do believe that if we
• 51:18
  really work through all of our hurts and pains and we heal, no
• 51:22
  matter where it is or how it how it comes about, that everything
• 51:27
  we've gone through can be used for a better purpose, even if it
• 51:31
  just helps one person, right? It's worth it.
• 51:35
  Yeah, Dina, do you want to add anything to that?
• 51:40
  Oh God, that was so beautifully said, Lizzie.
• 51:42
  The only thing I'd probably add is that it also, if you allow
• 51:47
  what you went through, like you'd earlier said, Melissa, to
• 51:51
  not make you bitter and angry. And you know, I hate men.
• 51:57
  I hate this. I don't trust that.
• 51:58
  I mean, if you allow this to instead bring out the beauty and
• 52:04
  who you are, because it created so much depth of character and
• 52:09
  it created, you know, pain, I mean, I hate to say it, but pain
• 52:14
  and trauma, if you process it correctly, you can literally be
• 52:19
  a spring of fresh water for people that are just starving
• 52:24
  and they're, they're thirsty and they don't know where to go.
• 52:27
  And nobody can really relate to them unless somebody who you
• 52:30
  know, who's been through it. And so, you know, it can bring
• 52:34
  out this incredible beauty in you and, and this depth of
• 52:38
  wisdom. So, you know, along with what
• 52:42
  Lizzie said, it'll change you as a person.
• 52:45
  And I don't regret going through any of it.
• 52:48
  I really don't. I don't.
• 52:51
  I tell you, the person I am today is nothing like the person
• 52:54
  that I used to be. And I'm grateful that I have
• 52:56
  something to offer, you know? Yeah.
• 53:00
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:01
  OK. So the next point is living out
• 53:03
  of your own expectations versus others.
• 53:06
  You all coming together like you have is definitely defined
• 53:09
  expectations. It is not the normal script,
• 53:11
  which is what I love because this is women supporting women.
• 53:15
  This is women not seeing each other as the competition or the
• 53:18
  enemy. You 2 are modeling that so
• 53:21
  beautifully. If women could criticize all the
• 53:24
  muck because in narcissistic relationships, they want you to
• 53:27
  be pitted against each other. They want you to feel isolated.
• 53:30
  They want your family members and your friends to think you're
• 53:33
  crazy so that you will stay in line.
• 53:37
  You 2 both defied that and you said no, no, no.
• 53:41
  Not only we're going to save each other, we're going to Jane
• 53:44
  and we're going to save her too. And so to already defying
• 53:49
  expectations within that, talk to me about the responses or
• 53:54
  what kind of responses you've had in regards to that and how
• 53:59
  you just continue to honor living out of your own
• 54:03
  expectations by doing the work you're doing today.
• 54:08
  Dina, go ahead and go first with that.
• 54:12
  Well. I think it's definitely been a
• 54:16
  journey of let's just start with the first thing, like we didn't
• 54:20
  know anything about anything. We knew nothing about any kind
• 54:23
  of social media. I mean nothing.
• 54:26
  And so I think at first, if you're going to take your story
• 54:30
  and you're going to try to use it to help other people, keep
• 54:33
  your expectations just really small.
• 54:36
  You know, even if you talk to somebody at the restaurant, you
• 54:40
  connect with someone that you're sitting next to and you tell
• 54:43
  them your story or, you know, you just start a little blog or
• 54:48
  you know, or whatever. But those expectations will
• 54:52
  definitely keep growing. They're going to find their own
• 54:56
  path. I truly believe that we all have
• 54:59
  a path and I believe that we all have a purpose.
• 55:03
  And when you go through something, don't waste it.
• 55:07
  Let it become part of that beautiful purpose and reaching
• 55:11
  other people that maybe you're only one or two steps ahead of
• 55:14
  them. Maybe they're in it and you just
• 55:17
  barely got out of it, but you could be lifeline.
• 55:20
  And so just keeping those expectations to really believe
• 55:25
  in your heart of hearts, no matter how awful it is and no
• 55:28
  matter how broken you feel and worthless and completely
• 55:33
  demeaned because that's what these people do.
• 55:35
  They will demean you to where you feel like nothing.
• 55:38
  Even my narcissistic boss made me really question I'd been in
• 55:42
  leadership for five years and I literally said I must be the
• 55:46
  worst leader in the whole world. I went from thriving and having
• 55:50
  great reviews and all that to literally thinking I am
• 55:54
  completely a failure. So remember that.
• 55:59
  Those are normal feelings that you have to process through
• 56:02
  because somebody else made you feel that way and maybe even
• 56:07
  made you react in ways that made yourself feel that way.
• 56:11
  And manage those expectations that when that healing comes,
• 56:14
  you're going to have so much clarity and things are going to
• 56:18
  be so different and you will be able to then be that spring of
• 56:22
  water for somebody else. Yeah.
• 56:25
  Oh, thank you. So good, Lizzie, How about you?
• 56:28
  Well, I think you both said it so well.
• 56:30
  I'm like, wow, that was beautifully said.
• 56:34
  I think it's really important to remember we're not just one
• 56:36
  story, we're many chapters. And I think sometimes we think
• 56:41
  that whatever we've gone through, that's that's what
• 56:45
  defines us, right? But it's not, it's just the
• 56:49
  beginning, and it's learning to step out of your comfort zone
• 56:54
  and into an uncomfortable place because that's how change in
• 56:58
  growth happens. It doesn't happen because I stay
• 57:01
  rooted where I am. It's because I make that change
• 57:04
  in that step. Like Dina said, just one small
• 57:07
  thing, you know, just one small change that week.
• 57:11
  What's one thing new I can do this week to better myself or to
• 57:15
  help somebody else who may be in these situations?
• 57:20
  I think sometimes we look for the big picture when we just
• 57:23
  need to look at the steps in front of us.
• 57:26
  Yeah, yeah, those, those little decisions you make and how they
• 57:30
  add up, this goes nicely. So good into accepting the
• 57:34
  layered aspects of ourselves because that's what you all have
• 57:37
  done. And when you use the word
• 57:40
  chapters, Lizzie, that's such a good point.
• 57:42
  We tend to want to stay stuck in a layer or a chapter because
• 57:47
  we're scared of what the other ones hold, or we have shape
• 57:50
  around them, or we fear them, or we think it's going to be too
• 57:53
  hard to move through them, or we just want to forget it and move
• 57:55
  on. But we know that's not how it
• 57:57
  works. You all have already shared.
• 57:59
  All these things spill over and these start causing problems in
• 58:03
  other areas of our life if we don't address them.
• 58:06
  But it can be really difficult to acknowledge, and you don't
• 58:10
  even have to love all the layers and chapters, but just a simple
• 58:13
  acknowledgement and, you know, curiosity rather than judgment
• 58:18
  and a lot of empathy and patience.
• 58:20
  You all have both been able to do that.
• 58:23
  It's really remarkable. Do you have anything?
• 58:26
  We'll start with you, Lizzie, that you want to share with
• 58:28
  listeners that have helped you to embrace all those layers, all
• 58:33
  those chapters. I think by just even like you
• 58:36
  said, just saying that I'm a survivor, I'm a mother, I'm a
• 58:41
  grandmother, I'm a leader, I'm a woman of faith.
• 58:44
  I do carry grief, but I also carry joy.
• 58:47
  I have strength, I have softness.
• 58:49
  The layers don't make me complicated, they make me whole.
• 58:54
  Oh oh. My God, that's so good.
• 58:56
  Oh my word, you should write that down.
• 58:58
  That is so good. Wow.
• 59:00
  Wow. Dina, how about you?
• 59:05
  Wow, Lizzie, I know that's a hard one to follow.
• 59:08
  Holy. Cow I know shoe drop mic, drop
• 59:12
  mic, drop a shoe, throw a shoe will.
• 59:15
  Drop a mic will do all the. Love it.
• 59:17
  Perfect shoe mic. A shoe mic drop.
• 59:22
  I guess not too those of us. All right, You know what she's
• 59:25
  talking about. The rest, right?
• 59:27
  You're below 50. Look that up.
• 59:31
  Ask your mom, you know what it this kind of goes hand in hand
• 59:36
  with what Lizzie said, but it's it's it really do the work, you
• 59:40
  know, do the work. When you get out of a
• 59:42
  relationship that is that was toxic, that was, you know, that
• 59:47
  change your definition of you and damage did some damage to
• 59:52
  you and your family. Do the work, like put in the
• 59:55
  work. Like, you know, get books about
• 59:58
  codependency, get books about the narcissism.
• 1:00:01
  But do not focus on that ex person so hardcore what they're
• 1:00:07
  doing. You know what they're you know
• 1:00:09
  who who they're with now you know they're not and you just
• 1:00:14
  don't obsess over them. You have to really let them go
• 1:00:18
  and you have to get to focus on you for a change and put in that
• 1:00:22
  work. And that to me was the most
• 1:00:26
  important aspect of growing into my better self was putting in
• 1:00:32
  the work and really taking a deep dive and understanding who
• 1:00:36
  is this person? I mean, I was just the shadow,
• 1:00:39
  you know, I was just the mom. I was just the, you know, who,
• 1:00:41
  who am I though? Who, who am I and what do I need
• 1:00:44
  to heal? What were some issues inside of
• 1:00:47
  me that I didn't even realize were there?
• 1:00:50
  And it wasn't until I met my, my second husband that I, it was
• 1:00:55
  like a mirror, a very harsh mirror on how much damage was
• 1:00:59
  done in that previous relationship.
• 1:01:01
  I felt pretty OK until that. And boy, I tell you, you know,
• 1:01:07
  sometimes it takes something like that to realize that, wow,
• 1:01:11
  there is work to be done here. There's way more healing that
• 1:01:14
  has to happen, and as hard as it is and as painful and exhausting
• 1:01:18
  as it is, you don't have to do it all at once.
• 1:01:21
  You can do baby steps like Lizzie talked about, but put in
• 1:01:25
  the work to get yourself healthy and reach out to people that are
• 1:01:29
  wiser than you or therapists or a life coach and put the work
• 1:01:34
  in. It's so so, so important to
• 1:01:36
  become, you know, the the higher nature of your best self.
• 1:01:42
  Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you for that.
• 1:01:45
  Yeah. Know your value.
• 1:01:46
  Knowing you, you discard all those lies you've been told and
• 1:01:52
  know your value. So good.
• 1:01:53
  Oh so good. All right.
• 1:01:55
  In in living out, feel, finding empowerment, embracing layers.
• 1:01:59
  The which is the acronym in this whole network that we talked
• 1:02:04
  about here is built around you all have done that work.
• 1:02:08
  Talk to me, Lizzie. We'll start with you about how
• 1:02:12
  that has impacted your relationship with yourself and
• 1:02:16
  your relationship with other people.
• 1:02:18
  And we touched on this a little bit earlier when that
• 1:02:20
  realization of how many toxic people you had in your life are
• 1:02:23
  like, whoops, say we got to do some work here.
• 1:02:26
  There's he was not the only one, but Lizzie, go ahead and talk to
• 1:02:31
  us about that impact once you made these shifts on your
• 1:02:35
  relationship with yourself and with other people.
• 1:02:38
  I think it was learning to be showing up more fully in
• 1:02:43
  situations. It's being completely present.
• 1:02:47
  I think it's so easy to sit there even in a conversation and
• 1:02:51
  maybe let our mind drift, but really be present in these
• 1:02:55
  relationships in the moment of whatever I'm going through,
• 1:03:00
  loving more deeply and no longer shrinking to make others
• 1:03:06
  comfortable. Because when I look at even what
• 1:03:08
  Dean and I are doing, talking about toxic relationships and
• 1:03:12
  abuse is not a comfortable conversation.
• 1:03:15
  In fact, it's kind of the conversations that people don't
• 1:03:17
  want to talk about. It's, it's not one people enjoy,
• 1:03:21
  you know, but yet we know it's critical.
• 1:03:24
  So for me, it's just being 100% present, being willing to feel.
• 1:03:31
  And all that. Yeah, Thank you, Dina.
• 1:03:33
  How about you? Yeah, I love what Lizzie said.
• 1:03:37
  And I would just add to that. Just find your voice, you know,
• 1:03:42
  just find your voice. And that could look really
• 1:03:46
  different than what you think. But it is especially with the
• 1:03:50
  empowerment part. I love that you included that in
• 1:03:53
  that acronym. You know, empowerment feels like
• 1:03:57
  I'm going to be on top of the world and I'm going to be, you
• 1:04:00
  know, successful and and admired and everybody's going to look up
• 1:04:04
  to me. And, you know, it actually could
• 1:04:06
  look a lot different. You could actually be a very
• 1:04:09
  humble, a kind, but smart, you know, wise, a kind but wise
• 1:04:17
  person that you know, it gives, gives of yourself, but only to
• 1:04:22
  people that truly, truly deserve it.
• 1:04:26
  But really, empowerment can be that quiet inner strength that
• 1:04:32
  you've been through something you've come out the other side
• 1:04:37
  and you're going to be a lot wiser and those around you are
• 1:04:43
  going to be much more protected and safe.
• 1:04:45
  I mean, I, you know, I, I submitted my children to this
• 1:04:48
  stuff. You know, I regret that.
• 1:04:51
  Yeah. But definitely take empowerment
• 1:04:54
  and make sure that you understand that that just means
• 1:04:57
  that you've overcome what you've been through and you've overcome
• 1:05:01
  in the best way possible, that you come out grateful and joyous
• 1:05:05
  on the other side with everything that you've learned
• 1:05:08
  and what you now have to give. Yeah, that's so good.
• 1:05:12
  You know, I love how you honed in on that empowerment piece
• 1:05:15
  because I it does shift when you do the work and you be you
• 1:05:19
  become and continue to become throughout your life, the
• 1:05:24
  healthiest version of you, the most authentic version of you
• 1:05:27
  that you were intended to be. And in other words, that come to
• 1:05:30
  mind for me as freedom, choices, contentment, if you can, if
• 1:05:36
  that's that's empowerment, the ability to see your life from
• 1:05:40
  that lens. So, so thank you so much for
• 1:05:43
  that. If you know, explaining that and
• 1:05:45
  really breaking that down, I think that was so, so good, so
• 1:05:48
  wise. All right, we are down to the
• 1:05:51
  rapid fire, so we're going to ask each of you a couple of
• 1:05:55
  questions here. Talk to me first about Lizzie 5
• 1:06:00
  Activities that nourish you. Five activities that nourish me
• 1:06:06
  Praying, journaling, laughing with my family, Dina, Laughing
• 1:06:11
  with Dina videos. Now here's the thing with
• 1:06:17
  everything in my life, the one thing I did not know I'd enjoy
• 1:06:21
  is editing videos and like being creative with the videos.
• 1:06:25
  Like it's become my favorite thing to do.
• 1:06:27
  Sometimes I wish I had more time to do it and maybe dancing in my
• 1:06:31
  kitchen. I love that.
• 1:06:34
  I love that. So good.
• 1:06:35
  OK, Dina, how about you? I.
• 1:06:38
  Just want to give a little shout out to Lizzie first, when we
• 1:06:41
  talked about empowerment and growth and all the things we
• 1:06:43
  talked about watching her, you know, cuz she was a, a ways
• 1:06:47
  after me coming out of this, this relationship and watching
• 1:06:50
  her growth in the last what, 6 years.
• 1:06:53
  Lizzy, we've been friends six years just watching her just
• 1:06:57
  bloom and blossom and find her authentic self and her joy and,
• 1:07:02
  and her her absolutely no, 100% no.
• 1:07:05
  And all of it has just been, it's such a pleasure.
• 1:07:09
  She's such a beautiful soul. Anyway, just had to say that.
• 1:07:12
  I. Love that that is, that is women
• 1:07:16
  supporting women. I love that so much.
• 1:07:18
  Just so proud of her. Anyway, OK, so 5 activities that
• 1:07:22
  nourish me. Definitely friends.
• 1:07:25
  You know 100% man. Getting out with friends, Oh my
• 1:07:28
  goodness. Going out, having a drink with
• 1:07:30
  friends, even better. It's a blast.
• 1:07:33
  Exercise is something that really nourishes me.
• 1:07:35
  I'm, I'm, I'm my, my love coming from healthcare for three
• 1:07:39
  decades is, you know, like holistic health and prevention
• 1:07:42
  and longevity and all those things.
• 1:07:44
  So so health prayer also nourishes me another way that I
• 1:07:50
  can empty out my emotions and it really helps my anxiety when I
• 1:07:54
  feel like someone else is cares and is watching over me and has
• 1:08:00
  a reason for what I'm going through.
• 1:08:03
  Family time travel for sure. And oh, that's probably more
• 1:08:09
  than 5, sorry. That's OK.
• 1:08:11
  I love that you have multiples. That's so good.
• 1:08:14
  All right. And five words on how you want
• 1:08:17
  to feel the next six months. Dina will have you go first.
• 1:08:22
  Well, these 5 words come from the fact that Lizzie and I are
• 1:08:24
  are really, really working to grow our platforms so that we
• 1:08:29
  can monetize and you know, actually have a make this a
• 1:08:32
  career. As well as a wonderful.
• 1:08:35
  Thing to help other people so therefore that's why these words
• 1:08:38
  are my words for right now. It would be successful, healthy,
• 1:08:44
  rested, content and accomplished.
• 1:08:48
  And that's because, you know, we've been at this for a couple
• 1:08:51
  of years and we really have put in a whole lot of work and we're
• 1:08:56
  really hoping to get to the other side to where that work
• 1:08:59
  can pay for itself, for instance.
• 1:09:00
  That would be really lovely. Yeah, yeah, I know that feeling.
• 1:09:03
  Believe me, I know that feeling. All right, Lucy, how about you?
• 1:09:08
  All right, so we got grounded being brave, free, joyful and
• 1:09:16
  resign. I don't want to be able.
• 1:09:20
  To I love that someone I can. Be making a resign.
• 1:09:24
  She means like get out of there, goodbye, goodbye.
• 1:09:27
  I love that. So much All right, Lizzie, tell
• 1:09:33
  people where they can find you. Follow you.
• 1:09:36
  How can people access this? And Dina will let you jump into
• 1:09:40
  after Lizzie. Well, you can find us on
• 1:09:43
  Surviving Toxic relationships.org.
• 1:09:48
  We just rebranded ourselves. We were the Matadoras podcast.
• 1:09:52
  So now, but we still have our emails, still the
• 1:09:55
  matadoras@gmail.com. We just find that right now.
• 1:09:58
  That's just simple until we continue to change.
• 1:10:02
  We've also changed all of our podcast platform, YouTube on
• 1:10:06
  Surviving Toxic Relationships, Matadoras.
• 1:10:10
  And yeah, we're on Facebook. We have a private Group, A
• 1:10:15
  public group. We also have.
• 1:10:18
  There was one more thing I was going to say and I went, oh, our
• 1:10:21
  new channel empowered midlife reinvention and Wellness because
• 1:10:26
  we are passionate. Part of the healing process of
• 1:10:29
  being in toxic relationships is you go through the phase where
• 1:10:34
  you leave the toxic relationship, you go through the
• 1:10:36
  healing portion of it, But the part that people don't really
• 1:10:40
  put power into or think it's important, it's the reinvention.
• 1:10:43
  And since Ian and I are in midlife, we were both divorced
• 1:10:46
  in midlife. But midlife also hits a lot of
• 1:10:49
  people who are just needing to reinvent themselves, whether
• 1:10:53
  from a loss of a spouse or empty nesters or career.
• 1:10:58
  Like, you know, they feel like they're a dead end in their
• 1:11:00
  career. And it could just be that they
• 1:11:01
  just need to look for new hobbies, new communities, and
• 1:11:05
  that's our new passion. I love that so much.
• 1:11:08
  Oh my gosh, Dina, anything to add to that?
• 1:11:12
  Really, she said it all. It's just that, you know, the
• 1:11:15
  surviving toxic relationships is where we've come from and we're
• 1:11:18
  still, our hearts are still 1000% there with women that are
• 1:11:23
  also there. But then the reinvention is
• 1:11:26
  where we're at now. And now we just have this
• 1:11:28
  passion for, well, what about when they get out?
• 1:11:31
  And what about now they have all these things and all these
• 1:11:33
  challenges to face. Like where, where can we help
• 1:11:36
  them there? Because that's, I mean, you
• 1:11:38
  know, we're still reinventing because, you know, I left my
• 1:11:41
  career a couple years ago. She's going to leave her career
• 1:11:45
  and this is what we're going to do.
• 1:11:46
  So the reinvention part is, is huge.
• 1:11:49
  And then of course, you throw in menopause and you throw in
• 1:11:52
  midlife and you throw in, oh, I'm starting over dating now and
• 1:11:55
  midlife and you know, all the things that you don't think
• 1:11:58
  about for this stage of life. And so we're like, there's a lot
• 1:12:01
  to talk about. So we have two YouTube channels
• 1:12:03
  and look us up on either one of those Be great.
• 1:12:06
  We'd love to hear from any of you.
• 1:12:08
  Oh, that's wonderful. All these resources folks are
• 1:12:11
  going to be on our website, embracinglayers.com on the
• 1:12:14
  resources page. Go there to find it all, connect
• 1:12:18
  with it, share this with your friends, share.
• 1:12:22
  Sometimes we don't know. We know people in these
• 1:12:25
  situations, but I'm going to make an educated guess that most
• 1:12:29
  of you listening, if you're not someone, hopefully you're not
• 1:12:33
  someone in the situation, but you are.
• 1:12:34
  You're the resources, but you probably know somebody, so don't
• 1:12:39
  be shy with sharing these resources and letting people
• 1:12:43
  know that Dina and Lizzy are there to support to help, to be
• 1:12:49
  there to show up and and in and to, you know, for that person
• 1:12:54
  that you're like, I'm pretty sure they are, but they don't
• 1:12:56
  maybe feel safe talking about it.
• 1:12:58
  Just hand it off to them. Like, gosh, I listen to this
• 1:13:02
  great thing today and it felt like it should, it would be
• 1:13:05
  really supportive. And so I'm just sharing it with
• 1:13:08
  all my friends, you know, don't, you know, don't single them out
• 1:13:11
  or anything. And just but just be really,
• 1:13:13
  really generous with this information because we just
• 1:13:16
  never know who needs it. And like I said, I guarantee you
• 1:13:19
  just about all of us know somebody who needs this.
• 1:13:23
  And if you are that somebody, here are these resources and we
• 1:13:27
  want you to have access to them and we want you to feel support
• 1:13:31
  forwarded through this. Any last thoughts that you'd
• 1:13:35
  like to leave with our listeners today, Dina and then Lizzie will
• 1:13:39
  let you add in too. I think my only last thoughts
• 1:13:43
  are just remember that no matter how bad things are and no matter
• 1:13:48
  how confused and in pain you are and possibly beaten down and
• 1:13:53
  possibly completely mistreated, you don't have to stay there.
• 1:13:58
  You don't. It might feel completely
• 1:14:00
  overwhelming and that the only answer is possibly to leave.
• 1:14:04
  And that just does not feel like anything you could do right now.
• 1:14:08
  Just start by taking care of you and like I had said, start
• 1:14:13
  growing yourself. I did this in the middle of my
• 1:14:16
  relationship. I finally gave up trying to
• 1:14:17
  change him knowing that that was not possible.
• 1:14:21
  He would never change. I finally got that epiphany, but
• 1:14:24
  I couldn't leave yet. I just didn't feel like I could.
• 1:14:28
  And so I started getting every book I get my hands on.
• 1:14:31
  At that point, I couldn't even afford to go to a therapist, but
• 1:14:34
  I got, you know, codependent no more and women who love too much
• 1:14:39
  and all these types of books that were empowering but also
• 1:14:43
  very revealing about where I was and what I could do.
• 1:14:47
  And instead of buying books for him every 5 minutes, you know,
• 1:14:50
  and can you please read this? Can you please look at this?
• 1:14:52
  Do you understand how you're hurting us?
• 1:14:53
  Do you understand? Can we go to therapy?
• 1:14:55
  I was like, done. So please understand that in the
• 1:14:59
  midst of your pain and the midst of your confusion, start working
• 1:15:03
  on you. It's going to empower you in
• 1:15:05
  ways you would never believe. And you're going to have so much
• 1:15:08
  growth in the middle and it's going to give you peace where
• 1:15:11
  right now you probably can't find any peace.
• 1:15:14
  Thank you. So good.
• 1:15:15
  Oh, so good. Lizzie, how about you?
• 1:15:19
  I that was really good Dina, you got me speechless.
• 1:15:23
  I would say for me, I would encourage you to understand that
• 1:15:28
  you are not alone. No matter what type of trauma
• 1:15:30
  you're going through, you are deeply, deeply loved and find
• 1:15:35
  your people when you're going through any type of trauma,
• 1:15:39
  hurt, pain, and do the work to heal.
• 1:15:44
  Because I promise on the other side, you'll like who you become
• 1:15:48
  and you like the fact that you're starting a whole new
• 1:15:50
  journey to try and do new things that you may have never done
• 1:15:55
  before. Oh ladies, that was so good.
• 1:15:59
  I I'm not even going to add anything other to that other
• 1:16:02
  than just say listeners. There you go.
• 1:16:04
  Take that with, you know, these resources here.
• 1:16:06
  Thank you so much to both of you for joining me today.
• 1:16:11
  Thank you for how well you love each other and other people and
• 1:16:16
  how you have chosen to take this and not let it dampen or steal
• 1:16:22
  your spirit and allowed you to move forward in the ways that
• 1:16:26
  you are supporting so many, probably more than you even
• 1:16:28
  realize that need these resources and support today.
• 1:16:32
  Thank you so much. Thank you, Melissa.
• 1:16:36
  It's been a pleasure. Absolutely, Absolutely.
• 1:16:39
  All right, Field podcast listeners, here are the
• 1:16:43
  resources. Share them, let them know
• 1:16:44
  people, they exist. Take good care of yourselves and
• 1:16:48
  we'll see you next time here on the Field Podcast.
• 1:16:52
  Hello and thank you so much for being with us today on this
• 1:16:56
  episode of the Feel podcast. If you would like more
• 1:17:00
  information on how you can apply these talking points that I
• 1:17:04
  share with our guests in each episode to your own life, really
• 1:17:09
  utilize this Feel framework. Go to embracinglayers.com, fill
• 1:17:14
  out our contact form and let's set up a free 30 minute
• 1:17:19
  consultation to talk about how you can start being your most
• 1:17:24
  authentic, organic, healthy feel fueled life.
• 1:17:28
  Thanks again for being with us today.
• 1:17:30
  We'll be back to you soon with another episode here on the Feel
• 1:17:33
  Podcast.