Latest / The Tech Matchmaker / When AI Sells the Product, Advisors Sell the Outcome | Ronnell Richards

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When AI Sells the Product, Advisors Sell the Outcome | Ronnell Richards · The Tech Matchmaker

• Gina: Hello everybody. Today we're chatting with Ronnell Richards, who is a best-selling author of Shut the Hell Up and Sell. And if you don't know his name yet, you're about to the book, the LinkedIn, the learning courses, your podcasts, coaching, all of it built around one idea, which is stop pitching and start connecting. I'm so grateful to have you here, Ronnell. So welcome to the Tech Matchmaker. RR: Gina, thank you so much. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. It's been what, maybe a month and a half and in and coming. Gina: Yes. RR: And and so yeah, I'm I'm excited. Gina: Awesome. So let's start with basics. Why don't you tell everybody who doesn't know about you a little bit about yourself and your background? RR: Yeah. I think you already did a great job. Like you laid it all out. but but here's what I will say, you know, I'm known for participating in a lot of different things from a business perspective and you know, a lot of the things I'm involved and involved with. But at the end of the day, everything kind of comes down to one kind of core concept, which is re relationship centric. I'm all about how do we build deeper relationships, how do we do better business. And I think that it's more poignant and more important today than it's than it's probably been in our whole lifetime, you know, with the disruptions that we currently have with technology. I think it challenges the way that a lot of people are selling. And and those that understand how to build those those deeper relationships and understand what what relationships really are, in terms of getting away from some of the superficial stuff and bringing real value to their connections or the ones that are going to continue to strive Those are the ones that are going to continue to to see the success that we've had in the past in the technology sales. So yeah, I that's how I'll sum it up. All those little accolades. Thank you. by the way, and Gina: Yeah. RR: the the resume stuff. at the end of the day, I'm just I'm just a sales guy who believes in in in in building some really good relationships with people. Gina: I love it. And I do always like to ask people, what's one thing for our customers to get to know you a little bit better that they might not find on LinkedIn? RR: wow. See, I've got a go-to for that, Gina. I've got a go-to. My my go-to is that I grew up in Utah. And you see, see, it always works. It always works. That is the look. So Gina: Ha ha. RR: when I'm when I'm giving speeches, I sometimes I like to weave that in because when you say Utah, they certainly don't envision me. but yeah. Gina: No. No. RR: Growing up in Utah, the way that I did now I'm originally from Ohio, which is why you see those those buckeye helmets behind me. But Gina: H I O RR: growing up in Utah taught me so much. it was in challenging in a whole in a lot of ways, trust me. growing up in the eighties and nineties there. But it also built some tremendous character. And I I think is part of the reason why I value relationships so much as well. kind of all goes back to to that experience and kind of understanding and and feeling what superficial relationships kind of were and and and really valuing those deep connections that I that I had with with folks. And that just has kind of like been just foundational to how I view life. So it's it's it's it's even beyond business. And the good thing is is that it's it's really good for business too. But it's but it's even better for you know how you live your life. Gina: I love that. Now you alluded to the pace at which technology is evolving in in your opening there. And I was just with AI and the announcements we get on a weekly basis about new models and everything else, and it's evolving at a pace I don't think anybody could have predicted. but what's interesting to me, and I I know you share this, is like the view across the field is we're still not seeing the success being reported the way everybody had anticipated. Like I think the stat was 80% or something like that of AI projects failing. And then it's even higher for generative AI projects. And so I love your take on what separates the projects that actually work. RR: Yeah. Yeah. So thank you for asking that question. I recently delivered a webinar for one of my clients, and this was the focus of it build versus buy, because this is something that we're all challenged with, whether we are, you know, one-person shops or we're, you know, global organizations, global companies. It's what do we choose to build versus buy from a from a provider? And so to to make this simple as possible, the conclusion is that. If it's simple SaaS, it's simple application, build that all day, right? Anything that has some complexity, you should probably buy it. Now I gave the example during this webinar. I shared my own personal story, which when I was eleven or twelve years old, my dad and I worked on refinishing our basement, right? When my dad had this idea that he was like, okay, we're gonna finish the basement. So we spent that summer working in the basement every day when he got off work. And at the end of that summer, well, the basement was done. What do you think that basement looked like, Gina? Gina: Yeah. Yeah. RR: Exactly. It looked like a basement that was done by dad and his 12-year-old son, right? Like it was fine. It had walls and paint and all that, but there were all those little those imperfections. The wall wasn't perfectly level, just all those different things, right? And so a few years later, when it was time for my dad to sell that house, well, the real estate agents, the first thing they said, well, we we gotta fix this basement, right? We gotta do this, do that. So for my dad, what I said shared in the webinar is that. For my dad, maybe it was worthwhile to do that to teach his son a lesson, right? So the fact that when he went to sell the house, that he had to pay money to fix what what we did, maybe again, it was worth it because he taught his son a moral lesson. But in business, we can't afford to teach moral lessons, right? We have to the Gina: Yeah. RR: that the teaching a moral lesson or attempting to could cost you your job. Or your business. So what I what I share with that audience is that projects like patching holes, right? Like a patching hole, I can go watch a YouTube video for 15 minutes. I can buy $20 worth of supplies, and I can do a pretty good job in patching that hole, pretty close to professional, right? Without Gina: Mm. RR: paying a thousand bucks to a professional to come out and do that. That's the sort of project you should be doing. All day, right? And we call that simple SaaS stuff, right? But the more complex stuff like building it, like building a basement or refinishing a basement, I don't recommend it for someone that doesn't do this every single day. Because what you ultimately end up with is a project that or a product that looks like something that someone doesn't do every day, but it but it's even that much more dangerous in this world of coding and all this, because there's some Gina: Yeah. RR: other things that we're dealing with. We're dealing with how once you build something, there is the maintenance and the upkeep of that. Like it doesn't just stop once you build it. You have to continue to invest time. And then there's another part of that, which is the gamification of the platforms. Gina: Mm-hmm. RR: People don't think about that. Claude, Chat lovable, whatever the whatever platform you're using, these are usage-based platforms. The more you use it, The more it costs. So they've Gina: Mm. RR: gamified them, and they're going to continue to gamify them that much more to encourage you to put more prompts. Do this, do that. And before you know it, you've spent thousands of dollars trying to create something that you probably should have just invested in, purchasing it from someone that's already has that institutional knowledge and has the team to support it. Gina: And and if we were to give examples in a contact center kind of context, like I actually just had a customer where they were doing, we built this CRM and I'm like, and you've got one person that knows it to your point, right? One person that knows it. What happens when they win the lottery? Right. And and walk out that door. So RR: Yeah. Gina: I look at it as CRM would be a little bit of a complex one. What would be one of the easy ones that you would say go ahead and build? RR: Ooh, good question. I have an internal I because I build a ton of things. I have an Gina: Yeah. RR: internal presentation tool that that that we've created, proposal tool, right? And so what that proposal tool tool does for me is I spend a lot of time talking to talking to companies about their their challenges and and and really trying to uncover where there's great alignment for for me to help them, right? So if I'm sitting on the call with the prospect, what I don't want to be doing, one, is I don't want to be thinking too much about taking Gina: Yeah. RR: notes and thinking about what I need to say and everything. So what I've done is I've created a process and created a platform that one takes my my notes, takes my fathom notes, and it digests them based upon criteria that I've put into it, right? So that it thinks like 70% of what I think, right? And then from there, it it gives me an output of an SOW, of some some key takeaways from that conversation, right? And then what I do is I add a personal video to each of to each each one of these proposals, right? So again, it takes all the information, it automates it, it distills it down, and it gets me 70% of the way there. Then I just Personalize it. That is a great tool. I don't have to pay someone for that. In fact, not only do I have Gina: No RR: to not pay for someone for that, if I were paying someone for that, I wouldn't get the same level of output that I get from the tool that I built for myself, right? So that's an Gina: Yeah. RR: idea of a simple tool. It's not super complicated. It doesn't have to plug into a whole bit of a bunch of different things or communicate with a whole bunch of other platforms. It just takes my data and And it distills it in a way to where I can now present something that's really palatable and personalized for each one of my prospects. Gina: Love it. And so if we go to that complex scenario, in your experience, what does it usually look like for a company that, you know, they're okay, we've got to buy technology on this? They walk out there and they're like, we can do this on our own. They're fielding, you know, pitches for vendors who do it every day. They're doing this maybe once a year, once every three to five years. Where does that tend to go wrong? RR: Yeah. so the first thing I'll say is just because you can doesn't mean you should. Okay. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. so Gina: Love it. Love it. RR: where where it goes wrong in s in so many places, it goes wrong from right at the outset, right? And just in terms of the amount of time that has to be invested into building something that is not part of your core job responsibility. You don't just get extra time. So that's the first thing you have to think about. Like, what is my job? What am I responsible for? And now, if I'm taking this time to invest in building something, well, it you're taking away from something. What are you taking away from? What is your time worth? Right. That's the first issue. That's the first challenge that people don't often think about. And one of the reasons they don't think about it is because it's fun to create stuff, Gina. Gina: Mm-hmm. RR: It's fun. I'm creating this and and there's and it the dopamine's hitting and all that good stuff. And so you just keep going down that that rabbit hole. Meanwhile, your core responsibilities, they're still sitting there. They haven't gone anywhere. So that's the first mistake that people make is underestimating the amount of time that it takes to build something. And then once you've built it, again to the point that you had previously made, who built it? Is it you? Someone else? Like. Like, is it all in your brain? Is it all in that or someone else on your team? It's all in their brain. What happens when they go? Who's going to Gina: Yeah. RR: support that? And the last thing is, it doesn't stop with the build. Technology is moving so quickly. There's these platforms have to be maintained. They got to be maintained. Who's going to maintain them? Who's going to keep keep the iterating of it because there's no there's no platform out there that you just put out and once it's there, it's done. No, there's Gina: Yeah. RR: an evolution, there's iteration that has to keep happening. And if that's the case, do you have the institutional or foundational knowledge to be able to do that in the best way possible? And most people don't. Here's the last thing I'll say. While all of this is viewed as negative, and it is for the reasons that I've just mentioned. It's also sneakily positive, too. Let me explain to you why. Because so many people are out here creating stuff, right? What it's done is it's taken the line down or the price down on the other platforms, right? Because Gina: Yes, yes. RR: so, so the there's the good part of it. Because the barrier to creating stuff has become pretty low. So many people are creating things, and a lot of people are creating bad stuff. But it's still impacting the overall market because the good stuff is now coming down in price and being a little bit more approachable. So there's Gina: Yeah. RR: there's a good side to it too. But don't, I would just say to your viewers and listeners, don't you be the don't be the person that makes that investment in in building and end up regretting it because of all the time and resources that you've invested in it. We've just put you on game, okay? Now you can go. Gina: Yeah. RR: Work with Gina and get the right platforms for your business. Gina: Well, and I think you brought up a really great point that a lot of times customers overlook, which is internal time invested. And I think that's one of the benefits of using a tech matchmaker RR: Mm-hmm. Gina: like Think Forward is you're saving like 70% of your time from you're not a procurement. Even your procurement group doesn't have the CCaS experience that we do out in the field, right? And so I always look at it as, you know, customers when vendors are coming in. And they they sell every day, right? They know exactly what buttons to hit. They're not looking always at what does the customer need? And if a customer is having to field all those vendor queries and everything on their own, that's a huge time suck that takes them away from doing what they're actually supposed to be focused on. That's my RR: Agreed. Gina: thoughts anyway. Now, Ronnell, aside from being father, husband, and a philanthropist, you have become very vocal in the channel about women in the channel. And I RR: Mm-hmm. Gina: think it is no questions asked is the bracelet. And I'd RR: Mm-hmm. Yep. Gina: a for one would like to thank you for being a voice for us. And two, would you talk a little bit about how that started and the impact and why you feel it's important? RR: man, it is that is layered and it is it is long. I will say the first thing that I'll say is I thank you. I received that, but I throw it back to you because what I am doing and what guys like I am doing is exhibiting a a little bit of courage. Like the operating in an environment where you are such a minority and there are there are Threats all around and oftentimes threats from places that you don't even expect, that takes a lot of courage, right? So the least that we can do is exhibit a little bit of courage to show that we support. so where it came from, partially Gina's my own ignorance. I you just don't know what you don't know. So I built some pretty successful companies in channel sales, but in my own little world, right? So, like this larger world of technology channel. while I I did my very first deal in what we would call the channel back in 2001 and started my first company, RD Direct, in 2004, I operated in my own area. We were pretty big ATT solution provider. And and worked some other successful campaigns with a few other carriers, but I ran my business very isolated. I didn't attend events. I wasn't, and when I started building my business, what we know of today didn't exist. Like the the TSD model didn't exist the way that it the the that it exists today. The the all of the Marketing stuff and the events and everything didn't exist to the level that it does today. So that's how I came into this business and just running my own thing. I didn't, we ran everything direct, didn't have any TSD relationships, and they were called masters back then. We didn't really have any of those relationships, did our own thing. And so I stayed in my world. And in my world, these sorts of things that happened in that world didn't exist because that's not how I was raised. Gina: Mm-hmm. RR: I was a big fish in a small pond. So the way that I ran my business, that just these sorts of things would never be acceptable. Like it's it's crazy to for me to eat it would be crazy for me even to even think. Like my and my offices were primarily women and ethnic minorities. And there was a level of respect because that's what I demanded. It's how I operated. There's a level of professionalism. That I demanded, and that comes from my parents. It didn't just start with me. growing up in Utah influenced that drastically. I was taught that I had to be not as good as everyone, I had to be better than everyone. Gina: Mm. RR: And and I was. That was the expectation. And so when I started my business, and I come, that's what our expectation was, because you know, there weren't a lot of leaders that looked like me. And certainly not offices that look like mine, but I can tell you one thing: anyone that walked in our office, we were best in class. So once I started to build this larger influence in our industry, as you know, when I launched my consulting firm in 2016 and started to grow my impact or whatever on the world through social media and all these sorts of things. My world just kind of got bigger in that respect. And I learned things that I just never knew before. And and it just not acceptable to me. and I'm not the type of person. I grew up in Utah again, right? I was the g I was growing up there as a teenager, I can remember, you know, marching on the Capitol to make Martin Luther King Day a a holiday. Like I'm that kid that was not afraid to stand up. And, you know, my mother has a nice scrapbook of the articles that were written about me when I was a kid and everything. So it's just part of who I am to stand up to bullies, number one. And number two, just not accept bad behavior. And so that's where it initially comes from. It's just who I am and who I was raised to be. And I'm also a businessman, right? I believe that aside from it being, of course, bad character, it's bad for business. It's just and if if we want to continue to be legitimized, which this industry had a hard time becoming legitimized. Like early Gina: Yeah. RR: on, people looked at this world like they looked at the multi-level marketing world, but it's, you know, and so like we had a long road to be legitimized. By the companies that now come in droves into the technology channel and want to get into the technology channel and want to tap into this talent. So by not recognizing that for what it is and that issue for what it is and working towards making this a better environment, we're putting all of that hard work at risk. And so I'm not a guy that's just gonna sit back and say that's that's okay. So so there's two things for me. And that's and that I always mention that, Gina, because I don't I trust people. I know what motivates me, Gina: Mm-hmm. RR: but I trust people to do what's in their best interest. I'm very much driven by things like social social impact and things of that nature mean a lot to me. I don't trust that it means a lot to everyone else. I trust people to do what's in their best interest, and if what's in their best interest is also the right thing. Great, right? So, Gina: Yeah. RR: like, that's why I try that's why when I'm having these conversations, like when I'm talking to you, you get it. I don't have to do the business impact, but when I'm talking to the peoples whose minds and hearts that I'm trying to change, I have to bring in the business impact as well. So they understand, well, it's not just, you know, the right thing for me to not be an asshole, but it's and make people feel uncomfortable, but it is right. for my business and for the welfare of my business and of the industry. So anyhow, I digress. As you can see, I get a little I get a little Gina: No. RR: passionate about these things. Gina: I love it. I absolutely love it. And I think it's it's much needed in, as you said, the male dominated industry that we work in. So as we wrap things up for now, is there anything that you'd like the audience to know that I haven't asked you today? RR: wow. what I would like them to know. I'd like them to know that we are in a very challenging time period in technology sales and technology business and a lot of people aren't really paying attention and i'm not one for hyperbole i'm not one for you know evangelizing for things that that just for the sake of it are bringing attention to things just for self-promotion but i see a lot that people just Just aren't paying attention to. As as great as AI has been in so many ways for us, it's transformed my business. It's transformed the way that I'm able to serve my my my clients and the way that I'm able to teach my students. But it's also the biggest threat that I've ever seen to sales. And here's why. Because it is a better transactional seller than any one of us could ever be. And in technology, a lot of folks have been transactional selling for a very long time. They just don't think that they are, but they are. Because if your if your sales process is centered around product information and product assumed value props that now you're connecting a client with, that's transactional selling. It's not real solution and consultative selling. AI can do that better. I just shared a post today, in fact. this gentleman, person has famously lost like twenty million dollars in commission. Twenty million. What's the biggest deal you ever lost, Gina? Gina: Yeah, no, not not twenty million. RR: 20 million, there was a $400 million yacht sale. Okay. And this broker was going to make $20 million off of commission. Well, here's what happened. The guy that wanted to buy the yacht went around the broker. He went around the broker by going to ChatGPT and saying, hey, who owns this boat? Well, it's a yacht, I'm sorry. And ChatGPT because it's public information, said, such and such. So what he did is he went to such and such, said, Hey, look, I want to buy your yacht. Give you, I'll give you X amount. And guys, okay, cool. And so that salesperson was sitting in the middle and now taken out, now they've lost $20 million in commissions. Now, I know your audience is sitting there and they're thinking, well, $20 million, that's that's just an isolated thing. And it is not because the buyer journey is changing, not is changing, has changed. Buyers are more informed. They're all using Chat, they're all using Claude to make their buying decisions. So if your what you think separates you is your subject matter expertise, it does not anymore. Because before I ever talk to you, I've gone to Claude and Claude has given me in 10 minutes everything that I want to know. So what do I need you for if you're just going to bring product knowledge? Well, I can go around you and go straight. To the provider of those services, right? And here's the thing: the providers, the carriers, the software companies, they all know that too. So Gina: Yeah. RR: now they're building journeys, digital buying journeys to connect customers directly to themselves that are buying transactionally. So here's what that means: it's not all doom and gloom. It's definitely doom and gloom for a lot of people. But it's not all doom and gloom because The prov the the trusted advisors like you, Gina, that are experts in business and experts in outcomes and understand the outcomes that we're trying to present. Well, you are going to be poised to be more successful than you've ever been because you're outcomes focused. You're more concerned about that client's business and the outcomes that they're trying to get from the product and service than your product and service. So people that are going to be that are great at discovery and that again have that focus on what matters the most to the client and prospect at the end of the day. we'll continue to crush it. But the majority of of companies and sellers and everything that are out there that are just transactional selling focused on products, you're in trouble. Gina: You know, that's so refreshing to hear on a couple of notes. One, because I am on the operational side, it is the business outcomes. That's where my 30 years have been spent, right? And I remember when I got into this side of the business, Ronnell and I was so worried that I didn't have the product knowledge, right? RR: Yeah. Gina: And it's like, they're gonna think this. And it's I have found it is so not important, right? Like that's why RR: Right. Gina: you have all the different vendors, it's really about. Let me listen to what your problems are. And because I've spent 30 years in contact centers, I've seen it before. I know how to solve it, whatever the case may be, right? So great RR: Yeah. Gina: to hear. to wrap things up, I've always been a fan of James Lipton. And so we do a little bit of rapid fire at the end. So my RR: Okay. Gina: first question for you is what noise or sound do you like? RR: What? What noise or sound do I love? Wow. Gina: Yes. RR: That one is out of left field. Gina: Ha ha ha ha. RR: I would say. Maybe a swoosh like a basketball through the net. All net. Swoosh. Gina: awesome. All net. Love it. What noise or sound he hate? RR: Ooh. You know, I want to go deep cut because I feel like everyone will default to something like nails on the chalkboard or something like that. Gina: Definitely have heard it. Yeah. RR: Ooh, like whiny valley girl voice. Yeah, that one. Gina: And what profession other than your own would you like to attempt? RR: if I could? Gina: Yeah. RR: Meaning like no limitations? my god. Who wouldn't Gina: No limitations. The world is your oyster. RR: want to play in the NBA? Yeah. Gina: Yeah, love it. Ronnell, I am so grateful for your time today. Thank you for your wisdom and for sharing RR: It was my pleasure. Gina: with us. We're gonna put your book link and everything below when we post this. So thanks again for joining us and sharing your time with us. RR: Thanks, Gina.