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The Real Reason Next Gen Buyers Won't Call You · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
Welcome to the Mortgage Marketing Radio Show.
0:04
I'm your guest host, Katie Shive, and if you have been in this industry for any amount
0:09
of time, then today's guest is most likely not going to be a new name for you.
0:15
Kristen Messerley has been on more stages and more rooms and arguably on more podcasts
0:23
than most.
0:24
And she is talking about next-gen home buyers.
0:29
She is the co-founder and executive director of First Home IQ, and she's been publishing
0:34
the next-gen home buyer report for the last six years, surveying more than 9,000 next-gen
0:41
buyers to get in their minds on what they want, what they need, and what they don't want.
0:48
So the most recent report just launched, and we're going to talk all about that today.
0:55
There's a few data points I promise will probably surprise you.
0:59
And if you stay to the end, we're going to be talking about what she and lots of loan
1:04
officers are doing in just a couple of weeks in DC.
1:09
So without further ado, let's get into today's episode.
1:25
Well, hey Kristen, welcome to the show, it's so fun to have you on today.
1:34
Yeah, so good to hang out with you, thank you so much for having me.
1:38
Yeah, well I know you're a big fan of Jeff and his community, and it's fun when all
1:44
of our circles are people and our circles become friends.
1:47
I know, and I'm a big fan of you, of course, so this is very fun.
1:52
Well, I love it.
1:53
Well, I wanted to actually start off and just share kind of a unique story of how you
1:56
and I know each other.
1:59
And so you and I first met, I don't know if you remember this, but it was 2021.
2:04
And I was buying my first house, well, my first house with my husband, remote, like I did
2:10
pretty much the whole thing remote when we were moving to Montana.
2:13
And I think you and I were talking on a LinkedIn DM or something.
2:17
And you were like, hey, can I interview you?
2:19
And I didn't know then what you're doing and what you're doing now.
2:22
But I kind of love the fact that I was his small data point in your world and now that we
2:27
get to be friends.
2:28
So yes, and I love that it was also at the beginning of formalizing a lot of my research
2:34
because I'd been doing a lot of interviews with next-gen homebuyers and then it was
2:38
right around that time that we had released our newest or the first next-gen homebuyer
2:43
report.
2:45
And then of course, it's been really fun to collaborate with you on that.
2:49
Yeah, I definitely remember that.
2:51
I love that I still made the cut for the next-gen category.
2:57
So that was a nice brush from my ego.
2:59
So yeah, but I remember how passionate you were about the process and it was such a great
3:06
conversation.
3:07
I was like, oh, I hope I get to work with her someday.
3:10
And you know, then we ended up being able to do a lot of lines.
3:15
Yeah.
3:16
I wasn't fast forward just for everybody listening.
3:19
Yeah, Kristen and I reconnected in 2023 and I was looking to get back into some marketing
3:26
stuff.
3:27
And Kristen's like, oh, my gosh, I'll hire you.
3:28
Like, I'm not even going to interview you like, let's like, yes, let's work together.
3:32
And that started.
3:33
Well, that one was like weird because I had thought of you and then you reached out and
3:39
I was like, like just a, yeah, so right.
3:44
Yeah.
3:45
I think I sent you, I sent you a message at a LinkedIn DM at like 11 o'clock at night.
3:52
And I was like, hey, not sure, but and then you responded of like, oh, my gosh, like let's
3:57
get on a Zoom and then, you know, the rest is history.
4:00
So yes.
4:01
I love that we get to talk today about the next-gen home buyer report because obviously you're
4:07
so passionate about it.
4:09
But one of the things I was saying in your intro is you've arguably probably been on the
4:14
most stages in the most rooms and on the most podcasts talking about next-gen home ownership.
4:21
Like there is nobody in our industry that I know that is more passionate so much so that
4:26
you've literally co-founded First Home IQ.
4:30
Everything you're doing is around helping to close that gap.
4:33
So without going too involved with what First Home IQ is, can you just tell us like a little
4:39
bit of your journey of getting into what you're doing?
4:42
Yeah.
4:43
So I grew up in a family of mortgage professionals.
4:47
So my whole family kind of got into it and my dad had a brokerage when I was young.
4:52
So I knew a lot about the industry and was always passionate about, you know, really education.
4:59
And then I started my career as a social worker and I did a lot of education with people
5:03
that were really very distrusting of people helping them.
5:08
And that's where I became very passionate about education and building trust, a lot of
5:12
homeless youth.
5:14
And so that I say that specifically because it led into where I became very passionate
5:20
in this industry around how to build trust with people whom the next generation are very
5:26
distrusting and why it's so important to lead with education and I think those two elements
5:32
are really key to creating a better future of confident homeowners and people that really
5:40
understand how to make smart financial decisions and buy their first home.
5:46
That's so cool because a lot of people that get into this industry obviously start in
5:50
the sales side or sometimes in the ops.
5:53
You completely came in like a wrecking ball like, yeah, I kind of heard around the kitchen
5:57
table like my parents talking shop, but you came at it from a totally different approach
6:03
which was more that psychology and the social work aspect.
6:07
And I think personally that's why your work is so fascinating because you look at it
6:12
through a very different lens and you've seen both sides of the conversation.
6:16
Yeah, I actually, I applied a lot of the, I was trained in trauma informed care as
6:24
a social worker and I applied those models and frameworks around that into the mortgage
6:31
industry and when I started a company called Cultural Outreach which I did for about nine
6:36
years and would work with groups of loan officers on applying those frameworks and that's
6:43
where I think it became really interesting to me to see how important the psychology of
6:47
money was and how important it was to apply some of those empathy based skills and trust
6:54
building skills in the side of finance and mortgage and how much that really translated
7:00
over.
7:01
Yeah.
7:02
Well, and there's no trauma in mortgage at all, like we don't need a trauma informed specialist
7:10
at all.
7:11
No, I would actually argue the opposite.
7:13
So that's really cool.
7:15
Well, let's jump in to the next-gen home buyer report because you've been doing this
7:20
since 2020 consistently, right?
7:23
So the last six plus years and you're, you've interviewed or at least researched more than
7:30
9,000 respondents.
7:32
Is that correct?
7:33
Yeah.
7:34
And I was doing a lot of interviews and research before that as well.
7:38
But in this formalized next-gen home buyer report sponsored by National Mive and doing
7:42
that since 2020, exactly right.
7:45
Okay.
7:46
So, you know, when a lot of loan officers hear the phrase next-gen, I think their brain
7:51
immediately goes to, you know, affordability and rates and down payment and qualification
7:56
because we kind of just make that correlation or that assumption that that's what they
8:00
need.
8:01
But the data, at least from what you're showing, really tells a different story.
8:05
So what are some of the things that are holding next-gen back that's outside of the traditional
8:12
down payment myth?
8:13
Well, to the point of the psychology, there's the belief that homeownership is out of reach
8:20
or that it's not affordable.
8:22
So there's the actual affordability challenge, which is definitely real.
8:26
But then there's a, I think a much bigger challenge, which is that the next generation, Millennials
8:31
and Gen Z, really think that they need a 20% down payment.
8:36
They think they need perfect credit.
8:37
They think they can't buy if they are gig workers and there's a lot of misinformation
8:43
and lack of education that prevents people from actually even entering that process.
8:49
That's crazy.
8:50
So it's not just the actual affordability, but it's the belief.
8:54
So like, where do you think that comes from?
8:56
Like, do you think that they're hearing conversations from their parents that are saying that you
9:01
need that or is that more TikTok and their friends?
9:05
Yeah, I think it's a mix of everything.
9:07
I mean, things get passed down and I do think that it's just like, I mean, we've surveyed
9:13
people the last six years asking them about the minimum down payment required and it's
9:18
really consistent.
9:19
Nothing has changed in terms of like busting that myth and only this year, only 8% I think
9:26
had said that it could accurately identify the minimum down payment.
9:30
And I do think some of that is because of where they're getting information, but I think
9:35
part of why that belief isn't changing is because there's like a lot of people get overwhelmed
9:43
with information.
9:44
So even if they start then going out and looking for stuff on their own and we explored this
9:51
a lot in this year's report, people start to kind of shut down and that's where understanding
9:56
the psychology of money and people's money story becomes so important, but you go to
10:01
chat, you go to YouTube and all these sources and they're trying to become empowered consumers
10:07
and find out more information, but it just kind of like their brain kind of shuts down.
10:13
And for a lot of people that overwhelm prevents them, that's kind of it's like the misinformation
10:18
and then the overwhelm that is another barrier to entry.
10:22
Well, in the overwhelm is a lot.
10:24
I think too, just when you look at AI as a tool, like we've all been excited about how much
10:29
information we can all access, but to your point, you can have too much information.
10:34
And then when you look at trust, it's like, well, what resource do I know to trust?
10:39
And is this accurate or is this, you know, based off of a different scenario that doesn't
10:44
even apply to me?
10:45
Yeah, and I will say I was just talking with a friend last night about her experience
10:51
of buying a home she's closing next week.
10:54
And I was so frustrated because I tried to give her a lot of information about finding
11:00
a good loan officer or evaluating the, you know, contact she had and the process of buying
11:06
a home.
11:07
And all she could think about was rate, like she just wanted to know what is the lowest
11:12
rate I can get.
11:13
And it was like that.
11:15
Yeah.
11:16
Exactly.
11:17
Yeah, exactly.
11:18
And I think for a lot of people, it's really hard to understand the complexity of what it
11:24
really means to go through the mortgage process, what getting a mortgage looks like and
11:29
what nuances are there and working with a mortgage professional.
11:33
And I, this is something I'm actually working on with First Home IQ of adjusting the way
11:38
we talk about and deliver education because it's even if you provide all the information,
11:45
they're not hearing it or it's not sticking, you know, and I think it's a, that becomes
11:51
again another real barrier.
11:53
And this is a smart person, someone that has a great job, you know, all those things,
11:57
but it was just, yeah, very fixated on that one point.
12:01
Well, yeah, I mean, to your point, if you, if you were to take this to another subject,
12:06
like investing or your retirement planning or anything else with money, I think because
12:11
money is so emotionally charged.
12:13
So there's a lot of fear that comes with it, a lot of anxiety, a lot of, you know,
12:17
we're comparing ourselves to you to what your peers are doing or maybe what your parents
12:21
are recommending.
12:23
So if we were to translate that to another topic, like I for sure couldn't tell you what
12:27
the best stock is or what the best strategy is.
12:30
So I think, yeah, there's just a lot, a lot of information to sift through.
12:34
Yeah, I talk a lot about this moment I had when I, I was working with a financial advisor
12:40
because I have so much anxiety around, like, you're just, you know, money, all of that.
12:46
Like you said, it brings emotional, it brings emotion for anybody and, but I have a lot
12:53
of it.
12:54
And I go into this meeting with the financial advisor, he shares my strategy, he's trying
12:58
to be really like, you know, it's straightforward about things.
13:01
And I just, it's like a blackout, like I don't hear anything he's saying.
13:06
By or ring thought I was napping through the meeting, I get literally told me, oh, you
13:10
took a nap during this and I was like, no, I was awake, I think.
13:16
And um, but that's, you know, our body going into this kind of, our brain going into this
13:21
shutdown of like the trauma response, you know, and I think that's why again, that, that
13:28
kind of informed approach is really important because if you put too much information on
13:33
someone or you're not capturing someone through, you know, that kind of, um, empathy first
13:39
approach, you're going to have people just not hear anything you're saying, right?
13:44
And then the, the result is your efforts are actually working against you or they're
13:48
not effective.
13:49
And so you could come back and say I have all of these touch points or these classes
13:53
or this marketing or whatever.
13:55
And again, if you're not connecting in that way first, then you're missing a lot of the
14:00
efforts.
14:02
Um, one of the stats that stood out to me was at six and 10, six out of 10 buyers expect
14:09
the housing system to work against them before they have ever had a single conversation
14:15
with a loan officer.
14:16
I mean, 60% more believe it's rigged than it's helpful.
14:20
So like, talk to me about that part of the, the data and like, you know, maybe what
14:25
were some of the questions asked or not verbatim, but like, what was the thought process between
14:30
unpacking that?
14:31
Yeah.
14:32
So we've been tracking trust since 2021 and seeing that in 2021, we saw that two and
14:39
three felt that lenders were not trustworthy or reliable.
14:43
And that was a big flag of like, okay, we need to look into this more.
14:47
I have been asking a similar question every year.
14:51
And this year decided to do a battery of questions, series of questions that are validated
14:58
to really identify what, what do we mean by that lack of trust?
15:02
And one of the things that came up was just lack of trust in the system itself.
15:07
It's not necessarily the individual, but it's just that the person, the loan officer that
15:11
is working in the system is incentivized to put their interest first.
15:16
And so that's what people, and you look at the other questions and some of the data points
15:21
that's in the report, a lot of the fear is around being taken advantage of that their,
15:27
interests don't align with the loan officers interest.
15:29
And so this is where it becomes so, you know, so important to see how, how you show your
15:36
borrowers or your community that you are putting them first and putting that, you know, that
15:43
person at ease in the conversation.
15:45
But yeah, I think it's a huge, you know, the three areas that I talk a lot about are
15:50
the misinformation, the overwhelm, and then this lack of trust.
15:55
So for any loan officers that are listening right now that are like, cool, this is really
15:59
concerning, which it should, it should concern, it should concern all of us concern us in
16:04
a way to make us be better and to be more effective.
16:08
What are some ways that we, that you're seeing loan officers help build trust?
16:14
So I think I use this framework and in my workshops on trust that the first, first area
16:22
is to tune in.
16:24
So if you are in a one-on-one conversation with someone, just focus on an initial question
16:30
that is, is asking them to bring up the, like, what keeps you up at night?
16:35
Like, what's the anxiety there?
16:37
Let's bring it to light and, and asking that question, what brings you, what, you know,
16:42
what keeps you up at night or even what, yeah, what's, what's most anxious for you about
16:48
this process?
16:50
That allows that person to share and you are then seeing them and supporting them.
16:55
And so if you say, okay, what I'm hearing you say is that you're worried, you're not
17:01
going to be able to, you're going to have too big of a payment or whatever it is, then
17:05
they can iterate on that, say, okay, you know, yeah, but this and, and you validating them
17:12
really allows their brain to go out of this.
17:16
I'm nervous, you're going to take advantage of me and this is kind of anxious place
17:20
to say, okay, this person really sees me, they understand I am connected with them, I'm
17:25
safe.
17:26
And that sense of safety is the, the first, I mean, when I talked about trauma-informed
17:30
care, it's all about creating a sense of safety.
17:33
And so by tuning in and asking that question, it's a really simple way to start a conversation
17:40
that allows the brain to get back online, stop being in that shutdown place and you're,
17:45
you're able to engage it then in additional, you know, conversation and keep things going.
17:50
Outside of the one-on-one conversation, the areas that I think build trust are by showing
17:56
up in your community, aligning and partnering with people that are already trusted and then
18:01
showing your, your market that you're doing that.
18:05
So putting stuff online, showing that you go to, you know, for us, first on my cue, this
18:10
is a big part of our mission and so doing workshops in the community or volunteering
18:16
in a school or going to this National Advocacy Conference, all of those things show your
18:22
market that you're different from the rest, that you put your money where, you know, what
18:28
you say really counts.
18:30
And I think that that's those are some ways that you can do that, but I know you have,
18:34
you have ideas on that too.
18:37
Yeah, well, I think it's just interesting because, you know, talk is cheap, right?
18:41
So it's like, like you're saying, when you get to the one-to-one, I love asking those
18:45
really personal questions because people are going to open up one-to-one in a way that
18:50
they're not, you know, in maybe a group setting or a class setting.
18:54
What I also think is interesting like with the social media strategy is, you know, people
18:59
are looking at your content long before they're ever picking up and, you know, contacting
19:05
your sending you a DM or even leaving a comment.
19:09
So just finding ways even in your approach of like, how do you kind of show behind the
19:15
scenes and maybe getting really personal?
19:17
Like, I don't know about you, but when somebody shares their story with me, I feel a connection
19:23
more quickly than if it was just, you know, not.
19:27
So even talking about what you do and why you do this and yes, I'm so glad you brought
19:32
that up.
19:33
That is the first step that we have as, you know, we, for new ambassadors, it's talking
19:38
about your why.
19:39
Like, we, and it's not because we're trying to get you to share about first home IQ.
19:44
We want you to share your why because it builds connection with your community and it
19:48
creates a sense of mission and trustworthiness and even vulnerability.
19:55
So I learned actually that I used to not talk about the fact that I had all this anxiety
20:00
around money and that, you know, like what that kind of, that challenge for me.
20:06
And then I realized that that was a really important part of my story to connect with
20:10
people and to show, show like, this is why I'm so passionate about this.
20:15
And you can trust this not just because of the data and the research, which is what
20:18
I used to only rely on, but also because it's very personal to me.
20:23
So yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up.
20:25
When we trust, I mean, we trust people through stories.
20:28
It's not just because I heard your story, I'm obviously trusting, but when you're sharing
20:32
a story that is personal and it's, there's conviction and like ownership in that, your
20:38
tone is different.
20:39
Your body language is different.
20:40
So, you know, when I'm talking with loan officers and realtors that are going through
20:44
this process, I always am like, Hey, do you have children?
20:47
Like do you have grandchildren?
20:48
Maybe you don't have kids.
20:50
Do you have a neighbor?
20:51
Do you have somebody that you care about in this bracket?
20:54
Okay.
20:55
When you turn on your camera to record, I want you to picture them on the other side.
21:00
What would you tell them that you wish you had known?
21:03
Or you know, having those kinds of things, I think builds just a layer of trust of doing
21:10
all of that.
21:11
Yeah.
21:12
And I think we can tend to be, like, we try to be efficient with our time.
21:17
And I know I've really struggled with this.
21:19
But one of the lessons that I learned earlier as a social worker was to put down the questions
21:24
that are, you know, like put down, I mean, I had a physical, like, checklist.
21:28
I had to go through and it was, you know, he's clipped boards and stuff.
21:32
And I would set that aside and I realized when I did that and I turned towards my client
21:39
and didn't have a desk in front of me and just started a conversation that I would end
21:44
up getting through those appointments so much more efficiently.
21:47
I had better outcomes, like everything went way, way better.
21:52
And so, you know, applying that to the mortgage industry, when you are having conversations
21:58
with people and connecting, building empathy and trust, that goes a really long way and
22:03
you end up not only having better conversions, but you also are more efficient with meetings
22:08
down the road because they already trust you.
22:11
Yeah.
22:12
Yeah.
22:13
And you don't feel, I mean, the person on the receiving end doesn't feel like there's an
22:15
agenda, right?
22:16
It's not like checking down, but it's like, hey, I really feel like you took time to
22:21
like hear me see me and help me.
22:23
So another data point, excuse me, another data point is that 37% said that they were avoiding
22:32
thinking about home ownership.
22:34
Not, you know, I can't afford it or I'm not ready.
22:38
Like they're just, they've like pushed it out of their brain.
22:41
So talk to me about that.
22:42
Yeah.
22:43
Well, I mean, it's, it's that overwhelm.
22:46
So I think, you know, whenever you think about the bar were today or the next gen consumer,
22:53
they are going to look at information online because they are wanting to get information.
22:59
They don't trust talking to a professional yet, but then they get overwhelmed.
23:04
And they, what happens with overwhelm is that they again, kind of shut down.
23:09
And they're like, I'm going to avoid thinking about this.
23:12
And I can't tell you how many people I talk to that have not bought a home yet because they
23:17
just are worried that they are, you know, that this isn't the right thing for them.
23:22
They're worried that they're going to make a wrong step.
23:24
And so they just avoid looking at it.
23:26
And that avoidance, I do think is a real barrier to entry for a lot of people.
23:33
And if we could improve, like, just turn that knob down just a little bit, that feeling
23:38
of overwhelm and then create a softer entry into conversation around home ownership.
23:44
I wonder how many people would actually enter the market today, not even looking at rates
23:50
or anything like that.
23:51
It just, we need to create a softer path to entry.
23:55
Yeah, completely, because there's just, there's so much noise.
23:59
I'd be curious, do you ever personally go on to Reddit?
24:03
Like, have you ever gone, spent any time down to rabbit trail and rabbit Reddit?
24:07
Do you gain some research for, like, voice to the voice of the customer?
24:10
Yes, I've done a lot of that and actually using notebook LM, chativity and notebook LM
24:17
to pull in a lot of Reddit threads looking at voice of customer.
24:25
So yeah, it's, I look at that typically and before AI on my own, but before going into
24:33
the survey question development for these action home buyer reports.
24:37
Yeah, it's pretty fascinating, too.
24:39
I like to do that every once in a while, you know, just go in on to Reddit and I'll type
24:43
in, you know, for some home buyer, there's different, you know, Reddit threads that you
24:46
can follow.
24:48
And it's really wild because you're getting unsolicited advice, like information, like
24:53
people, there's just a treasure trove.
24:55
So if you're listening and you're a loan officer, Reddit is free, but you can go online
25:00
and literally just type in keywords, you could type in your state, you could type in,
25:04
you know, first in home buyer, what have you?
25:06
I would encourage you guys to spend some time go look at what actually, like real people
25:12
are saying, you'll learn really quickly the fear and not just the stat behind it as
25:18
Kristen sharing, but like what are some of those things that are keeping them up at night?
25:23
Because if you're wanting to create content to speak to that, that's like my, my favorite
25:27
go to is to go find, to go, go find a good Reddit thread.
25:31
Yeah, I think it's really interesting.
25:34
I was just going to look for what I found in this years, but a lot of people were looking
25:40
for mortgage readiness, advice, home buying financials, home ownership strategy, but there's
25:48
just so much conversation around the, like people's experiences and I do think hearing
25:54
from the consumer about their experience or fears can be really valuable.
26:00
Well, and another thing that I've done is almost like secret shopped, right?
26:04
Because they have really strict rules on like, you know, you can't solicit and whatnot,
26:08
but I wanted to see what kind of advice I would get.
26:12
So I actually played a persona and was like, hey, I'm getting ready to think about
26:15
buying my first home and I'm so overwhelmed and I just kind of built this fictitious persona
26:22
and I put it out there and I was so amazed at the wide range of advice that I got and
26:27
how conflicting it was.
26:30
And so it was really cool to kind of be like, hey, what is a persona and then what kind
26:35
of advice would I get and why?
26:37
And then you can start engaging with them.
26:40
That's really helpful.
26:41
Can you tell me more?
26:42
And now you're actually one to one and one to many unpacking more data.
26:48
And I did that right before or right, yeah, when your report came out, because you can't
26:54
just come in and say, I'm doing research.
26:56
So I just played a persona and it worked beautifully.
27:00
That's a really great idea.
27:01
And I think, you know, you can get ideas for videos from Reddit questions or people's
27:08
input and say, hey, a lot of people think this.
27:11
I mean, this is a direct quote from someone and here's how I would respond to that.
27:15
You know, and I think people, you know, back to the storytelling, people really respond
27:19
well to scenarios and storytelling and your advice and input around specific examples.
27:27
Yeah.
27:28
Yeah, go to an Reddit, get an idea and then pair it with what's your advice or what's
27:33
a story or maybe find, you know, hey, I had a client that, you know, or I went on to
27:38
Reddit and I read this and I had a client that walked through this, here's how we worked
27:43
through this.
27:44
So now you're tying a fear and a real story that also helps build trust because you're
27:48
sharing story of how you helped.
27:51
So there's Reddit, Reddit's a gold mine.
27:54
Okay.
27:55
I'm just digging through a couple of these stats because the report was loaded and so
28:00
for everybody that's listening, we're obviously not going to even get through a fraction
28:04
of the report, but I will tell you one, it's designed beautifully.
28:10
And you know, Kristen, I just have to give you props.
28:12
You talk a lot about overwhelm and so much data.
28:16
You even took that feedback into your report and the way that you laid out your report
28:21
from the, the graphics and the minimalism, even visually just reading the report, you
28:27
play to that so beautifully.
28:30
So massive kudos for you because I read it in the car.
28:33
Oh my gosh.
28:34
Thank you.
28:35
This is beautiful design work.
28:37
I'm a big fan of design.
28:39
But that was one of the first things that I noticed was that it felt very easy to digest
28:46
the information.
28:47
Well, that means a lot.
28:50
And also that was so when I finished the report, I was like, man, this is doing the same
28:56
thing that I am kind of complaining about of like I really worried about people feeling
29:02
overwhelmed because there is so much information in there.
29:05
And I am trying to like for at least for our ambassadors, we're creating different presentations
29:12
that they can take a portion of the report and deliver a presentation for, you know, real
29:16
estate groups or whatever, but on trust or on AI and technology and, but I, yeah, I do
29:23
think there's a lot in the report and tried to share a story around it somewhere that
29:29
came through for you, but definitely it takes some time to kind of consume it.
29:35
Yeah.
29:36
Well, it's laid out really well.
29:37
So for everybody listening, we are going to put all of the links in the show notes.
29:42
And for anybody that like loves to deep dive into data, you can go back because they also
29:48
share all of the previous years.
29:50
So if you're like me, I took all of the previous years reports.
29:54
I threw it into notebook LM as I was prepping for our call and I was like, okay, well, let's
29:59
look at some of the trends starting in 2020 all the way through, you know, and was able
30:04
to just get some really good, you know, insights from that.
30:07
So if you're listening, make sure you check out the show notes.
30:11
And then let's, let's touch base really quick on first one, make you because obviously
30:15
this is, you know, started as a passion project, but now it is your full time mission.
30:20
And you started this in in partnership with Dave Savage and in Todd books band.
30:26
Like can you talk just about the gap?
30:28
Like what is the mission for home first to make you and what are you guys actually solving?
30:34
Yeah.
30:35
So our mission is to make homeownership education more accessible for the next generation.
30:40
And our, we do that through equipping loan officers and real estate agents to be the
30:46
education leaders and their communities.
30:49
So right now we have, we have kind of three pillars around this strategy.
30:54
Education is the research.
30:55
So this research has come under the first home IQ umbrella and everything we have created
31:00
really stems out of that.
31:03
And then secondly is the education.
31:06
We have an ambassador program that we have 150 loan officers and some real estate agents
31:14
across the country who are delivering education in their communities, whether it be webinars
31:19
or workshops or social media content, but we give them playbooks and information and
31:25
kind of a program around that.
31:27
And then the last pillar is advocacy and that's our newest pillar as of this year.
31:32
But we really believe that being involved legislatively either locally or nationally is a way
31:40
to build trust and I think overall it's about closing the education gap, but it's also
31:45
about closing this trust gap.
31:47
So we have 50 plus loan officers that are coming from around the country to DC to advocate
31:55
on the hill and then we'll be helping people get engaged locally across across the country
32:00
throughout the year as well.
32:02
That's really cool and that is, yeah, that is a new thing that you guys are doing.
32:06
Why I personally love that is because you guys are, I mean, you're not just talking about
32:12
the problem, but you're like mobilizing.
32:15
And you're helping loan officers who see the real problem because they're the ones in
32:19
the trenches every single day, but let's be honest, like we might see the problem, but
32:24
we don't really know how to solve for even at a policy level.
32:28
So you're partnering with the MBA, is that right?
32:30
Yeah, yeah, we partner with the Mortgage Banker Association to bring loan officers to
32:35
their national advocacy conference and then we'll also partner with them beyond that
32:39
to help loan officers get engaged with their Mortgage Action Alliance and other local
32:46
MBA groups too.
32:47
That's so cool because yeah, yeah, I mean, you're giving them the resources, you're giving
32:51
them the research and the tools on here is how you can partner at the state and the, you
32:56
know, even the local level with us.
32:59
So that's really cool.
33:00
So somebody is listening and obviously I would encourage you, please go check out First
33:05
Home IQ, what they're doing, but what would be the best way that they could get involved
33:09
to learn more and to see if it's a good fit?
33:12
Yeah, so I would love for anyone that's interested in learning about the impact we're creating
33:17
and the resources we have to go to one of our workshops.
33:21
We do them every Monday, 10 a.m. Pacific, at First Home IQ dot com slash workshop, you
33:27
can register for that.
33:28
And we really try to make that that's the first step to becoming an ambassador as well,
33:32
but we talk about, you know, crafting your wise statement and we share the free resources
33:38
that we do have around the research and some of the education.
33:42
We have some games you can use in classrooms and all of that, but then, and then if you
33:47
are interested in becoming an ambassador, then there's a next step from there, but that
33:51
would be a really great place to start getting engaged and just kind of learn some more
33:55
about First Home IQ.
33:57
Well, obviously I have a soft spot for you guys because it's a huge, what you guys are
34:03
doing isn't just to feel good, but like you're actually on a silver platter handing the
34:10
ambassadors every tool that they need to help combat this.
34:15
I mean, you guys have made it so easy from the content that you create from the classes
34:19
and the webinars.
34:20
I mean, you have so many resources that you have curated and you guys, I'm not talking
34:26
just like chat, GPT wrote all these resources.
34:28
This is like over a decade of professional research that Chris and the team have put
34:34
into this.
34:36
And you know, you also have a lot of people in the industry that have helped kind of sponsor
34:40
some of the content, right?
34:42
Yeah, yeah, we have a really great board and and loan officers who helped build the program.
34:48
As you know, I mean, we started with 20 people who said they would help build the program
34:54
basically.
34:55
And so everything that we've created has been based off of someone saying, this is going
35:01
to be helpful for my business.
35:02
This is how I can have better impact.
35:05
And so it's really been an industry wide effort.
35:07
And that is the idea that we are coming together as an industry to solve for the financial
35:12
literacy crisis.
35:14
And of course, Katie, you have been a huge part of that I cannot, we would not be here
35:20
without your help.
35:21
You created so many of the fantastic resources that we have.
35:25
So it's yeah, it's just you are very much present in the in the organization.
35:30
Well, it's a great one.
35:32
I mean, it was just an easy mission.
35:34
It was an easy yes for me back then and it's still an easy yes.
35:37
I mean, we all know we all see the problem.
35:40
And I think, you know, no problem and get solved by one person.
35:43
It gets solved by all of us saying yes, we can play a part of that.
35:46
So for you listening, what does that look like?
35:49
That's you and your local level.
35:50
Do you have a middle school or a high school that you could go teach a class at?
35:55
Maybe you're involved in your church or somewhere in your community.
35:58
How can you figure out a place where you can start raising your voice and giving back?
36:05
And then as Kristen was saying, you know, go join one of their calls.
36:08
You'll learn a lot about what they're doing.
36:11
And don't take my advice for it.
36:13
Go see, like the resources you guys, one of the biggest problems I think people have is,
36:18
I don't know what to say.
36:19
I don't know what to post on social media.
36:21
I don't know what email to send.
36:23
They solve this, right?
36:24
That you guys literally create resources for the ambassadors.
36:28
So, so with that, go learn about first home a kill.
36:34
And for the next gen home buyer report, what is the best way that they can get those resources?
36:40
So you can go to nextgenhomebuyer.com and access all of the past reports,
36:45
including the most recent 2026 annual reports.
36:49
That will also be on our website at firsthome IQ.com.
36:53
But we're in transition on that website.
36:56
That's on homebuyer.com.
36:58
But yes, so go to nextgenhomebuyerreport.com.
37:02
And then you guys, this would be a great topic that you could host a lunch and learn.
37:06
Jeff has classes and has done for you class materials too.
37:10
I know Jeff has actually been a huge partner with first home IQ as well.
37:14
So go teach a lunch and learn class with your agents, get involved, and go learn about
37:20
first home IQ.
37:21
So Kristen, thank you so much for being on the show.
37:23
This was just selfishly, this was really fun.
37:26
But I think the report is so valuable and I hope everybody listening goes and downloads
37:31
it and does something with it.
37:33
Yes, this is so much fun.
37:35
And also, yeah, Jeff has some resources in first home IQ that he's shared with, like
37:40
he said, the lunch and learns and referral partner relationships.
37:43
So definitely check that out.
37:45
But thank you so much, Katie.