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Party Drugs · Millennial Mental Health Channel

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, well I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go get
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: some quailudes. Just kind of get Lucy Gusey for tonight.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: That sounds lovely.
• 0:10
  Speaker 3: Welcome to MMHC, your go to mental health podcast.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Eddie Koreo, a licensed professional counselor.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: And I'm Justin Romano, a Board certified Child and Adolescent psychiatrist.
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  Speaker 1: We created MMHC to give listeners evidence based information directly
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: from professionals who work in mental health.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: We're not influencers, We're not trying to sell you anything.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: We just want to bring love, empathy, and understanding of
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  Speaker 3: mental health into this world.
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  Speaker 1: And we really think that learning about mental health should
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  Speaker 1: be fun, interesting, and most importantly honest.
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  Speaker 3: So thanks for tuning in. This is a show by
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  Speaker 3: two millennials, but it is intended to be for everyone.
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  Speaker 2: We hope you enjoy the show.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia. I Heart
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Welcome Back to the Summer of Substances, the hottest in
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: all of the United States.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: The series is trending. I don't know if you've seen
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: them on the Twitter or anything. It's yeah, we're doing.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It's hotter than Love Island. Right, Oh my god, love
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: what I don't even know Love Island.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know what that is. It's fucking
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the Facebook groups are just loving this series. Let me
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: tell you.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, summer substances. Today we are talking party drugs. Let's
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: let's party, Eddie. Got any shout outs for me before
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: we get out?
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  Speaker 1: Shit? I mean, I think, shout out to all the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: school staff, teachers, counselors, admin, anybody else that works in
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the school. We're starting to get people back to work,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and so I feel for you. I remember a couple
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of years ago, I watched his TikTok with this guy
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: was just telling us about like I'm going in. You know,
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  Speaker 1: my sentence has been confirmed. I got to pack up
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  Speaker 1: my things and I'm going in and tell my family
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I'll see them in about ten months to a year.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: And he was talking about going back to work as
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: a teacher. So it feels a little dramatic, but it's
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I feel for you guys. I'll be there in a
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  Speaker 1: couple of weeks too. So, yeah, shout out to the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: school staff that are going back to work.
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  Speaker 3: I wanted to give a shout out to all the
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  Speaker 3: therapists out there that work with young people. Have been
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: spending a lot of time at my work with the therapists,
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  Speaker 3: the pediatric therapists, and they're just fun.
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  Speaker 2: They're just good people. They're good to be around, and
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  Speaker 2: they really care about kids.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd like to think we do exactly. Hell yeah,
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  Speaker 1: thanks for the shout out to them. You mentioned party drugs,
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  Speaker 1: so let's just jump right into it. What's the worst
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  Speaker 1: party drug you've ever done? I'm just kidding, don't. I
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  Speaker 1: feel like that could go bad, so we're not going
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: to do that, but yeah, party drugs. Justin brought this
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  Speaker 1: up the other day when we were brainstorming on like
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  Speaker 1: some good kind of substance use topics and party drugs
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  Speaker 1: is I mean, I shouldn't call it a fun one,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: but it is kind of a fun one to just
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: to think about and to go back. And I was
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  Speaker 1: telling Justin before we started recording, I learned a lot
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: look over the notes and just doing some research. So
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: we mentioned party drugs. You probably think of like the
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: main ones like ecstasy or cocaine, but really the culture
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  Speaker 1: of party drugs goes way beyond that. Did I tell
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: you that I've been watching The Sopranos. I mentioned that
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: to you. You did, yes, Yeah, the summer it's been
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  Speaker 1: good and now it's clicking. I just finished I won't
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: spoil it, even though it's been out for a long time.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I just finished season three where one of the young
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  Speaker 1: men was getting into the ecstasy selling game and it
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  Speaker 1: didn't go well for them. So anyway, party drugs will continue.
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  Speaker 1: When you think of the use of party drugs, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: we can probably all agree really the point of them
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  Speaker 1: is to alter our consciousness, right, We're enhancing the experience
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  Speaker 1: that we're having in that moment. I think about our
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  Speaker 1: own generation. I think about we've had a lot of
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  Speaker 1: friends and we've even gone to like a rave together
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  Speaker 1: where people will take certain drugs and you know, enhance
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  Speaker 1: the experience they're about to have. But really, this is
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  Speaker 1: where we want to dive into a little bit of
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  Speaker 1: the history, really how it comes into play, and just
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  Speaker 1: to really look at you know, people have been altering
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  Speaker 1: their consciousness for fun for thousands of years at least
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  Speaker 1: according to research. That's what we want to start with.
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  Speaker 1: I do want to ask you justin before we really
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  Speaker 1: jump into it. You hear the term party drug, what
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  Speaker 1: pops into your mind?
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  Speaker 3: What do you think about For me personally, the thing
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  Speaker 3: that pops into my mind the most would be molly
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  Speaker 3: or like the pure form of ecstasy, because yeah, my
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  Speaker 3: wife was really into electronic music, and so we would
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  Speaker 3: go to some of those concerts, and that's what everyone
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  Speaker 3: always talks about, is molly is the main party drug there.
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  Speaker 2: How about you?
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  Speaker 1: I think the same thing, like MBMA ecstasy, molly. If
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  Speaker 1: we think like pop culture wise, when you and I
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  Speaker 1: were in college in grad school, there are tons of
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  Speaker 1: songs about molly, and like, yeah, it just kind of
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  Speaker 1: drugs in general. I can think of like some medium songs.
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  Speaker 1: I think there's like a Tiger song that's just called Molly.
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  Speaker 1: Molly's mentioned in a bunch of different music. That's probably
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  Speaker 1: the main one I remember hearing from uh, not just
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  Speaker 1: like Dana, but from our other friends in undergrad going
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  Speaker 1: to raves and stuff, and like also sharing about like
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the the aftermath of like you know, how these things
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  Speaker 1: would work after you take some of the drugs or
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: the substances, and how that impacted people and learn about.
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  Speaker 1: I think when I researched it, it was like the
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  Speaker 1: depressive Tuesdays or something like that, depressive Wednesdays, like after
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  Speaker 1: coming down from from a high and so something I read.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, party drugs, probably ecstasy, probably m molly. That
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  Speaker 1: kind of that range kind of signifies our generation.
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  Speaker 3: Who does that one song that's like percoset Molly, percosets.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's future.
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  Speaker 4: That's huge, Okay.
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  Speaker 2: I heard that all the time.
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  Speaker 3: We went to the Gorge for that big EDM festival
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: up there they have, and I heard that song was
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: everywhere that year.
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  Speaker 4: It's the dude, Yeah, it's.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a banger. So if you're interested, go
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: check out futures.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even remember which one it is.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Let's come on, let we have this is this Look,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: we do have the internet.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: It's time mask off.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Mask It was mask Off yep.
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  Speaker 2: That I would not have guessed that.
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  Speaker 1: Oh man. It came out in like twenty seventeen, so
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: we're all well into grad school around that time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, in the prime of our lives.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I've been down there since then. Just kidding. All right,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick history lesson. Let's ancient history. The
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Odyssey is out right now. That's a big movie going on.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I'm actually trying to read The Odyssey right now. There
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: is a there's I'm not going to my own horn
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: about it too much. There's actually like a more modern
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: translation of it. I believe the author is Emily Wilson,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: where she uses like words and phrases that your boy
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: can understand, so it's way easier to read than the
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  Speaker 1: high school version. Let me actually confirm her name so
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: we could yep, Emily Wilson, Yep, that's her translation. She
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  Speaker 1: apparently is pretty critical on the Odyssey movie too. So anyway,
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  Speaker 1: I'm digressing a lot. But if we look back at
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  Speaker 1: ancient history, one era that we want to start with,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna butcher a lot of names today. What is
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  Speaker 1: the I had it earlier? L e Ucinian L Eucinian
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  Speaker 1: mysteries or yeah, we'll go with that. So this is back.
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  Speaker 1: It was an annual spiritual gathering that happened among the Greeks,
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  Speaker 1: and apparently they're very inclusive to all. This was not
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  Speaker 1: just like only the rich could participate. It was like anybody.
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  Speaker 1: Anybody could participate. Ancient Greece around sixteen hundred BCE before
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  Speaker 1: Common Era till about three ninety two Common Era, so
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  Speaker 1: essentially thousands of ancient Greeks would gather annually near Athens
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  Speaker 1: to participate in a secret but inclusive night long ritual
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  Speaker 1: where they drank a psychoactive potion called kai Kon. We'll
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  Speaker 1: go with that. Yeah, Yeah, we'll go with that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, We'll go with Kaikon.
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  Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy eight, f No botanists are Gordon Wasson
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  Speaker 3: and chemist Albert Hofmann, who actually discovered LSD. Scholar Carl
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  Speaker 3: Ruck published The Road to Eleusius. They argue that kaikon
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  Speaker 3: was made from barley infected with Claviceps.
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  Speaker 2: Perpohea or iergot.
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  Speaker 3: A fungus containing ergot alkaloids, which is actually the chemical
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  Speaker 3: precursor to LSD. It's the name that may have been
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  Speaker 3: the first actually documented history of people using psychedelics.
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  Speaker 2: Yeahrow LSD psychedelics.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, hell yeah. Some other instances that we have include
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  Speaker 1: events that go throughout the Americas, Asia and Africa. Here
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  Speaker 1: kind of similar thing. There was groups that had altered
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  Speaker 1: states of mind and it was used for communal cohesion,
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  Speaker 1: healing and decision making, long before recreational nightlife like we
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  Speaker 1: know it today existed. So one of the instances was
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  Speaker 1: the rig Vita. The texts. This is in India again
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  Speaker 1: around fifteen hundred PCE before common era. There's an entire
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  Speaker 1: book of ancient Vedic hymns that's dedicated to Soma. Again,
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  Speaker 1: I'm butchering a lot, but we're okay. It's a sacred
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  Speaker 1: psychoactive drink consumed in group rituals. While its exact identity
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  Speaker 1: is debated, there's some theories. They range from that this
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  Speaker 1: was amanita muscaria mushrooms to ephedra. These are the theories
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that range, but the text explicitly describes feeling invincible, connected
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  Speaker 1: and filled with light after drinking this, this psychoactive drink
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  Speaker 1: in these group rituals.
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  Speaker 2: Which it's funny.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a bit of an ethnobotanist myself, but amanita
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  Speaker 3: buscaria is how we get like muscarinic receptors, because we
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: realized that that much shroom gave us like altered our
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  Speaker 3: muscarin receptors. And I believe that's why, like some people
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  Speaker 3: take benadryl because it gives you kind of a similar
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  Speaker 3: anti muscarinic effect that kind of makes you feel high.
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  Speaker 3: And ephedra is a stimulant similar to methamphetamine amphetamine. So yeah,
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  Speaker 3: it makes sense that a lot of these things are
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  Speaker 3: more of the natural forms of some of the drugs
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  Speaker 3: that we still use today.
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  Speaker 1: So fucking board certified child and adolescent psychiatrist and board
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  Speaker 1: certified eth no botanists, let's fucking go.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Let's go. And for the record, I am not an
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: ethnobot no.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I already said this is confirmed. There's no take bacsies.
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  Speaker 3: We're just kind of fascinated by how these different substances
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  Speaker 3: affect the human.
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  Speaker 2: Body and what it's actually going on in your brain.
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  Speaker 1: Before you hit the next line, you said the receptors. Yeah,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: talk about that a little more and enlighten me.
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  Speaker 3: So muscarinic receptor are actually a G protein coupled receptor
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: because everyone remembers that from their biology days. That control
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  Speaker 3: the neurotransmitter aceal coaline. So yeah, they control your major
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: parasympathetic functions like your heart rate, your digestion, your gland secretion.
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  Speaker 2: So there are lots of.
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  Speaker 3: Different muscarinic receptor receptors in your body, and yes, this
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  Speaker 3: mushroom can alter some of those. Now let me really
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: check myself and does Bena drill have muscarinic activity? Yes,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Benader has significant muscarinic activity.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, so maybe I am in.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: A baby added to the bio.
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  Speaker 3: I like it, well, in Mesoamerican archaeology, Mushroom stones in
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Guatemala dating back to about one thousand BCE and ceramic
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: vessels showing peote and psilocybin mushrooms show that collective ingestion
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: was tied to community bonding, harvest celebrations, and war prep.
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  Speaker 3: So yeah, dating back to one thousand BCE, people were using,
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  Speaker 3: especially psychedelics to.
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  Speaker 1: Connect to each other altered states. Interesting, We're gonna scoop
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: ahead up about to the nineteen twenties to the nineteen sixties.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: This is a semi more recent era and this was
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: highlighted with alcohol prohibition, jazz clubs, and amphetamines. So when
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: alcohol was banned during the prohibition times, nightlife moved and
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: went to underground, like to the underground, essentially in the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: form of speakeasies that we're all kind of familiar with.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: This forced music, mostly jazz, into unregulated spaces where everyone
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: started to experiment with these substances because they were trying
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: to stay up all night and party. This is also
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: where the what is it benza dream, benzigrin and haler
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and amphetamines came into play. Correct me if I'm wrong.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I think there was Essentially the inhaler didn't have amphetamines,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: it had something in it.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think benzdrine is itself a stimulant similar to amphetamines.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: After that, we shift a little bit to post World
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: War two and the nineteen fifties, and this is where
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: we also see a rise in the use of infenamene
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: tablets with soldiers who served and then used them to
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: stay awake in war. So similar to what we talked
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: about last episode, where cigarettes were given in the rations
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to soldiers and they came back with the dependence of cigarettes,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of soldiers also returned home with the dependence
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: on amphetamines and needing these tablets to kind of keep going.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: And so while people like to blame club culture speakeasy
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: culture at the time for the use of these drugs,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: technically some of this was government issued, so something to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: think about.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: I did a report when I was in junior high
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: on Charlie Parker, the jazz musician in like the thirties
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: and forties, and a lot of my report was about
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: how his music was likely influenced by the drugs he
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: was using at the time. He was really into the
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: bebop era of jazz, which was all incredibly fast, incredibly intellectual,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: very musically complex. They're using a lot of like old
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Churt progressions that hadn't been seen since like some of
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: the really intense classical music days, and so I think
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: it's really interesting that these substances actually shaped the music
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: of the time too, and gave us such a unique
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: form of jazz that was almost like frenetic, this high pace,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: this energy. Plus I know we talked a little bit
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: about World War two and how we may have mentioned
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: this on the show in the past, but the blitz Krieg.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Have you heard about this?
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a familiar term.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is something I have heard once before. So, actually,
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the Germans were giving a lot of their soldiers amphetamines
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to get them to sleep, or not sleep, stay up
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: through the night, so that they could invade Poland incredibly fast.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: And that's why they call it the Blitz. It's fast
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: because they were all on a bunch of amphetamine. So
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I think the United States at the same time wanted
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: to be able to keep up with the Germans and
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: were giving their soldiers stimulants as well.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: They're high as fuck. That's crazy.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, I love talking about psychedelics.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: We hit the psychedelic boom of the nineteen sixties. In
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: the early nineteen sixties, Harvard professor Timothy Leary, which I
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: know we have mentioned that name on the podcast before,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: began researching psilocybin and LSD. His main slogan turn on,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: tune in, drop out, which helped pull psychedelics out of
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: the clinical lab and into the counterculture youth movement.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Around the same time, we had these The Human be
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: In and the Summer of Love right around nineteen sixty seven,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: these massive outdoor galleries in San Francisco and Woodstock, which
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: brought tens of thousands of people together to experience collective
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: trips accompanied by rock music. So the Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I just think of, Yeah, the hippies, I guess is,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, is what I kind
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: of associate with that time is just like this, like
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: chill out man, like expand your mind, like just just
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: love like that. That's kind of what I put This
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: might be too stereotypical and too much of a generalization,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: but that's that's what I think of with that era.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. I liked your hippie voice too, that
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: was pretty good.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Too nap Man.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Have you ever have you ever seen the documentary I
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: think it's just called Woodstock that kind of goes through
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: and shows some of the different performances. It's so funny
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: because it shows a lot of the performances Jimi Hendrix,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Crosby Stiel's a Nash. But in between shows there's always
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: this guy that walks up to the stage and he's like, uh,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: there's a batch of bad brown acid going around. If
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: you see the brown acid, it's your trip band.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: But just be careful, buddy.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: I remember watching it when I was like fifteen.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like, WHOA, what a weird time.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: He's just walking up on stage, like careful for that
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: brown acid.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: You're gonna say, well, the owner of the white suv
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: please move firely. Well. After this time, we moved into
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the disco era, so the seventies and eighties, and this
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: was a time of escaping reality, partying hard, and having
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: symbols of status. So this was very contrary to the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: expand your mind man of the sixties. Here we see
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the rise of queludes, which I think we've talked about before,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: and in my research, every I kept seeing it described
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: as having a more loosey goosey high, so you just
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: kind of let loose and just kind of just just
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: let let the music and the vibes take over. But
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: at the same time, we saw a rise of cocaine,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: which became pretty much a status symbol because of its
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: high cost and they if you wanted to really simplify it,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: cocaine essentially equaled Wall Street, Hollywood, and high end nightlife,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: which I think Wolf of Wall Street's probably around that.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: At same time, there's a lot of cocaine. I remember
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: everyone was taking coayludes in that movie.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: I know, I know, I keep just giving you like
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: my own pop culture connections to these drugs.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: My brother had like an old TI eighty nine calculator.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: The calculator there were games on it, and one of
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: the games you can get was like you learned how
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: to deal drugs.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So what you.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Bought drugs when they were cheap and then you sold
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: them when the prices went up. And I remember like
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: buying a bunch of kay ludes on there.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: That's so fun. All I remember from the t I
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: eighty nine was Block Dude.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, Block Dude was the popular one and arguably the
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: better game but what Okay, well we're over using Google.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: I gotta see what the name of this game was.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: It could have just been something.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Oh it's called drug Wars.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: What the this sounds fake? Okay, Oh my god. Yep,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I typed in drug Wars and the thing that came
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: up was t I eighty three. That's hell of funny. Wow,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: right here. Gameplay legacy. The goal borrow money from a
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: loan shark, trade items across different city locations, and turn
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: a profit to clear your debt. Mechanics highly reliant on
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: simple text, random events, and basic numbers, making it easy
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: to share via graph link cables during high school math classes.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: And apparently you could customize it. Wow. Okay, dude, there's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: a Wired article about it that makes sense. The title
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: is the Wild Spread of Drug Wars from your calculator
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: to your phone. Oh.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I'm glad it made the leap to modern technology because
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: that was actually a really fun game and taught me
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: a lot about economics.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, my mind is blown. I had no idea
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: this was happening. Mm hmm okay, well I just wasn't cool.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: You just didn't have a sketchy older brother.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: That's really that's really what it was.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: This takes us on to later in the eighties and
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: nineties and what we kind of know is the main
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: party drugs, and we're starting off with MDMA. It was
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: first synthesized all the way back in nineteen twelve. It
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: was resurrected in the nineteen seventies by chemist Alexander Shulgin
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: and used in marriage counseling in PTSD therapy because it
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: lowered fear response.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: By the late eighties in the UK and their early
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: nineties in the US, MDMA or ecstasy, escaped the lab
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: into warehouse rays, birthing the PLUR culture. Do you remember
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: what PLUR stands for? Don't look at the notes.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I don't. I've never heard of plur.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Really, peace, Love, unity, and respect, PLUR, said plur Man.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: In the two thousands and the twenty tens, ecstasy pills
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: shifted to Mollie, which was a more powder crystalline form
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: marketed as pure MDMA. Those street samples were frequently cut
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: with speed or caffeine.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Got to make the product extend a little further. Yeah,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: which is bad now because then like now they're using fentanyl,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: which is anyway, okay, present day, I just mentioned it
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: brings us to things like ketamine, fentanyl, and then also
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: an attempt at harm reduction. So ketamine has developed in
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two as a safe battlefield slash veterinarian and esthetic.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: It then hit then the nineties and the two thousands
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: club scene as a disassociative called k hole. Today it's
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: both a popular festival drug and an FDA approved clinical
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: breakthrough for treatment resistant depression. That's how I know it
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a little more as the for treated depression.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, and the one that treats depression is mostly like
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: a nasal spray that you take in the presence of
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: a doctor or someone who can monitor you to make
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: sure that it's okay. Yeah, it seems to work pretty well.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Did I tell you about the time I got offered
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: kenmy No?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: When was that?
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I was in college at a concert at Red Rocks
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: and someone like this, this dude in front of me
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: turned around and was like, hey man, you want a
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: little ketymine? And I thought about it for a second
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: and I actually looked at my now sister in LAWA
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: I was like, should I do it?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: And She's like, no, don't do that.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Not the time or place to drop yourself into a
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: k hole, is what she told me, Like, yeah, hell yeah,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: hard to enjoy the music when you're completely dissociated.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, So that's.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: When I avoided is I never did academy?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Good for you. One thing we wanted to bring up
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and mentioned, like with harm reduction. Unfortunately, our current generation
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: of party drugs is marked with additional danger. So modern
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: party drugs, things like cocaine, fake adderall molly, are frequently
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: contaminated with synthetic opioids like fentanyl, which is turned recreational
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: use into a high risk gamble. Alongside that, if you
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: remember the DARE program for some reason, in when I
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: was in elementary school, we had DARE, but then I
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: had a shirt that said yield. I don't know when
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: they shifted, but whatever, but it was the just say
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: no movement, which, as we know, failed because when you
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: try to tell a young person not to do something,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: that kind of incentivizes them to do it anyway. So
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: because of this, we've had to get creative with how
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: we can keep people safe. So we really tried to
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: shift to a harm reduction standpoint with things like narcan
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and testing kits being common pieces of the party scene.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: So it shifted a lot. I'm sure there was some
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: type of harm reduction or trying to take care of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: people in previous generations with these different drugs, but right
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: now it is it's a pretty high risk gamble when
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: it comes to people like drugs being cut with a
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: synthetic opioid. So that's it. That is our brief history
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of party drugs and getting to learn a little more
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: about where we've come from. From ancient Greece to right now,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: it's all been the same.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think humans are always looking for that escapism.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: But also, like you said, a lot of these things
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: throughout history have been used to connect to other people.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: You saw how the ancient Greeks, how some of the
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: people in Bezoamerica use them. It was it was a party,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: It was a way to connect to other people. It
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: was a way to celebrate after something big happened. And
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: this young generation gen Z is one of the loneliest
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: generations in history. And also it seems like they're drinking
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: and doing a lot less.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Drugs than everyone else. Yeah, you know, so is it correlation?
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Is it cause? But maybe they just need to do
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: a whole lot more drugs.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: That's that's gonna be the one clip this just two
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: more drugs kids.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: I take that back immediately. I can't be saying that
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: kind of stuff, But I think it is a little
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: bit connected. I think previous generations we're looking for ways
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: to connect to each other, and now that young people
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: are just on their screens and their phones all the
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: time and that's how they connect and not in person.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: That there is less connection through screens than there is
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: through being with people in real life.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: So I think they're just they're.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: By themselves more than any other generation in history, because
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: most of these kids are hanging out in their rooms
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: on their screens and so they're not around.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: They're sketchy. Friends who have drugs.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Can't pass a k hole to somebody through the screen,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: so you gotta do it a red rocks.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: But for the people who do struggle with drug addiction,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: I've talked to lots of young people who have four
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: or five different drug dealers or what the kids call
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: plugs these days on Snapchat, like they can get anything
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: they want whenever they want, as long as they know
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: the right people on Snapchat. So it's easier to get
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: but it's not being used as much. It's I think
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: it's probably like what we used to describe the alcohol market,
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: how like what ten percent of people drink ninety percent
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: of the booze? Like the alcoholics are the ones that
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: drink most of it. I think that's kind of how
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: it is with drugs now. Not everyone is using and
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: trying drugs, but the ones that are using and doing
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: them are doing them a lot are.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Using and doing Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Well, I
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: think both of us learned a lot just kind of
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: doing research for this. But I mean, how do we
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: go about better educating the public on party drugs, their effects,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: how to use them safely? Is there a way to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: do it? I feel like there's pushback with something like this,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: But what do you think?
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: You know, I think it's really important to teach kids
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: about this stuff in school. Yeah, which, you know, the
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: emphasis should be on abstinence.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: It should not be on.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Let's never do it and never do drugs. It should
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: be on harm reduction and like, hey, let's teach you
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: how this works. Let's teach you ways to keep people safe.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Let's teach you some warning signs if people are overdosing
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: or need help.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And honestly, a lot of the young people that I
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: work with.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: I know I have a bias because I work with
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: people who are coming to see the psychiatrist, but a
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: lot of them do know a lot about this stuff,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: and they aren't afraid to take people to the hospital
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: if they're having a bad reaction to a street or
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: a party drug. So I'm glad that this younger generation
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: isn't doing as many drugs overall, but they still seem
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: relatively educated on it.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the way we try to, at least
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: on our school try to approach like psycho education is
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: kind of like the I want you to be the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: best consumer possible, and not that I want you to
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: take as many as possible, but I just want you
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to know, like I want you to have an idea
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: of how this stuff works and what's going on, and hope,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: my biggest hope is that you make the most informed
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and educated decision. Hopefully that means you don't use and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: that you don't participate, especially at a young age, but
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: if you do, you're at least educated and can kind
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of know exactly to your point of like what happens
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: if things go sideways, or like what can I do
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: to make sure I'm okay. I think that's the biggest
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: thing because coming in and I know you're the last
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: question on here is asking if we did theare I'm
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: sure you did because I did something similar, But having
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: a police officer come in with a case of drugs
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: and showing them to me and saying, don't do drugs.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: It was kind of a weird way to do it.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: In retrospect, maybe it was.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of like, yeah, that didn't work,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: so we should try some different.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Overall, our world is moving towards a more evidence based
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: educational system, which is.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: A good thing.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: But for for years, so much of culture was shrouded
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: in politics, and so much of it was shrouded in and.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Some racism and racist policies.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: That had that had happened. Like I've looked up on
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: the history of cannabis in the United States, how people
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: kind of saw that as a Mexican drug and so
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: they wanted to ban it so that they could pretty
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: much frisk and arrest Mexican people anytime they wanted to.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of that in there.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: What was that old propaganda movie from like the sixties, Oh,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: refer Madness. That's the one where yeah, it's.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Like you know where your kids are at night.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: It was fear mongering, right, It was, Oh, if your
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: kids smokeswed, you're gonna murder you with an axe, So
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: they're gonna jump out of a window and kill themselves.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Like it was hyperbole.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: It was more propaganda than it was anything else. And
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: so I'm hoping that we're moving away from that and
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: more towards like what you mentioned, like, Hey, we're gonna
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: teach you exactly what it is, what it does to you,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: and what to know about it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: To stay safe.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: You mentioned this reef for madness. It made me think
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: about the above the influence ads they used to come
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: out here. Yes, do you remember the one the girl
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: that was just flat on the couch and it was
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: basically like she didn't used to be like this, but
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: ever since she started smoking weed, now she's lazy and boring.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: I'm curious if they have any data on whether that
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: worked or not.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they do it. I'm sure it's not good.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: That's my biggest guess.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: When we were growing up, there were lots of commercials
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: about smoking's bad, drugs bad. Do we see those anymore?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I I feel like we watched cable TV a lot
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: less than before, right because a lot of people are
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: cutting the cord and they're they're doing the streaming service.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: But I and maybe we're just not the target audience.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: But you know, there used to be the one the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: fried egg, Yes, bring on drug rugs and uh, they'd
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: always make fun of it and uh, what's his name
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: is it? Mister Garrison or one of the characters in
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: South Park? Like drugs you're bad?
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, just.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Like that, it's just like not, I don't know, Yeah,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: maybe it's just not a thing anymore.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I'm even just look at the quick Google search and
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: it's mostly talking about the old drug campaigns. But apparently
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: there's one called one Pill Can Kill, which was trying
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: to really warn about like fentanyl.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So yeah, they're still doing this stuff, but it.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I've ever heard of that. Yeah, it was all over.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt like a little more prominent than it
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: is today.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: But buzz driving is drunk driving.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: There you go. I still see a lot of those,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and you know, a lot of billboards.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: I guess the other piece to it is when we
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: have harm reduction, right, like that's an initiative and We've
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: talked about it. Why do you think there's so much
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: push back on harm reduction in our country?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: You know, that's a really good point. I think it's
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: just lack of education. There's this mindset and it we
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: try not.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: To get too political, we say that, but we do.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: But it's usually the conservatives and the right that don't
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: like harm reduction strategies.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: And the argument that I've heard is.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Well, we're giving them a free pass to do drugs.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: And sorry for the bad Southern accent to represent Republicans,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: but yes, it's this mindset of oh, we're giving them
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: a free pass. I've heard the same argument for birth control.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: I don't want my kid on birth control because then
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: she's gonna have too much sex. And it's like, well,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: it's about harm reduction. It's like kids are going to
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: make decisions both good and bad, and if we can
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: prevent some of the really bad outcomes, that wouldn't you
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: want that? So I think the more you learn about
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: harm reduction, the more you learn about how much it
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: saves money for society, the more lives it's saves, the
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: more you realize like, oh, this is very much worth
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: the investment. But I don't think a lot of people
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: take the time to actually know that and learn that.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: I think it's the the fear of the unknown, and
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: just when you don't know things, you assume the worst sometimes,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: and it's hard to We are a stubborn society. It's
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: hard to convince us of other things, you know, even
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: if you have data and evidence. And yeah, I think
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: all of your points exactly. All right, Well I'm gonna go.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get some quayludes, just kinda get Lucy
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Goosey for tonight.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: That sounds lovely.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't even know where to start.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: Where does one get a kuaylud these days?
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Oh well, that's our party drugs episode. Thank you all
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: for being here. This has been great. We've we've got
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: at least another one or two in the Substance You
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: series that will have for you. But yeah, thank you
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: all for listening, Thanks for being here. You know what
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it is, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts.
• 34:02
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• 34:03
  Speaker 1: five star review. We would love that and appreciate it.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: On social media at MILLENNIALIMHC and at our website MILLENNIALIMAC
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: dot com. And remember, don't take your quayludes, but make
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: sure you take care of y'all mentals.
• 34:15
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• 34:18
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• 34:21
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• 34:27
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