Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Trends and Truths on Strength and Conditioning For Dancers

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Trends and Truths on Strength and Conditioning For Dancers · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now more than ever, dancers are inundated with content promoting all sorts of improvement methods, from flexibility to turn to strength and conditioning.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you filter through all that noise and find real useful information on how to get stronger safely?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Today on Making the Impact, our guests shared some important tips for dancers and educators alike to think about when searching for strength and conditioning resources.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, we are having a great day of podcasting over here, Court.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: We are.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is such a fabulous fall day in New York City.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: In October, we're enjoying it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Halloween's gonna be here before we know it.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And so will the competition season, which mine actually starts pretty darn soon.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: In about a month from now, we'll be starting my first convention weekend, which is crazy.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, that is so easy.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm not ready at all.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited, but I'm also not ready.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I I just uh am in gonna enjoy these weekends that I still have free for a little bit, but can't wait to see all the talent.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be great.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we have a really awesome episode today.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this one we've been holding out for for these two particular guests for a while, just ready to get them on the episode and schedules um and making sure everybody is on the same page.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we are here today with some wonderful folks to talk about strength and conditioning for dancers.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm just excited to learn from them.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love bringing on experts in the field and just we get to learn alongside our listeners um and viewers.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's gonna be a great chat.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: So stay tuned for that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: But before we jump in, let's hear from our sponsors.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Online dance critiques may be popping up everywhere lately.
• 2:30
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• 2:34
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• 2:37
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• 2:46
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• 2:48
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• 2:52
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• 3:07
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• 3:09
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• 3:10
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• 3:24
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• 3:38
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• 3:41
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• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it actually was like a pivot episode for us in season one because of COVID.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: COVID happens.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: We had so many competition like specific episodes planned for season one, and then there were no competitions.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, well, why are we going to talk about stage presence?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's no stage.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: So we I think that episode was called cross training in quarantine.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: And we talked about how to stay fit while we were all trapped inside.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and obviously we've talked about injury prevention and strength training and other aspects on many other episodes.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: But this one is specifically about strength and conditioning.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually think that it's gotten really popular, especially since COVID, of uh strength and conditioning and incorporating that into studio curriculum.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're seeing a lot of studios now having conditioning style classes weekly.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and the rise of acro dance as well has incorporated more conditioning aspects into um dancers training.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: So we wanted to talk about that today because there's a lot of things that we'd be seeing online and we have no idea what's actually legitimate these days.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: And if that's an exercise I should give a try or put onto my students, or are resistant bands needed, or do we need ankle weights on things?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna cover it all on today's episode with two brand new guests who are joining us on the pod.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: The first guest that I am very excited to welcome is coming to us from Texas.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: And they are the owner of Dancers Who Lift, which I love that, and I cannot wait to learn so much from her.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very pleased to welcome Amber Tacy to the podcast.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Amber.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Courtney.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Leslie.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to be here.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so thrilled to have you.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: And Leslie, I know that you kind of scouted Amber online for all from all of her amazing posts and all of the things that you're doing on social media.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: So congrats on all your success.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it was really cool to just come across your social media because I am a dancer who did not do any of this kind of strength and conditioning growing up.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very short person.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I get bulky really quickly, and that's one of those, you know, myths that a lot of dancers have to fight against is like, well, what if I get bulky?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to get bulky.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you you have so many tips and tricks for doing strength and conditioning correctly and lifting weights correctly so that it benefits you rather than, you know, hinders any sort of progress or uh flexibility or things like that.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just really excited when you said yes that you would join us.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so honored to be here.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love what you guys are doing.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I'm really excited for this conversation.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: It is something that I'm very, very passionate about.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've been doing uh this work for about 10 years now, um, really, but since COVID, especially is when DWL was born and took off.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, all these dancers and very active people are suddenly trapped at home and thinking about what comes next and how do I take care of my body, how do I progress, how do I, how long is this gonna be to when I can transition back into the studio safely?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really honored to ride that wave during COVID and see, you know, now um six years later with dancers who lift, we've we're a global brand.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: We work with professional dancers all over the world in all different walks.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Irish dancers and belly dancers and cruise ship dancers, people on national tours, recreational dancers who just want to show up once a week and not feel afraid to dance.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really, it's a really broad um environment, but I I have a very deep passion to put a barbell and put a weight in the hand of every dancer and and really empower dancers through through this.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's fantastic and congrats on all the success uh with this.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I would love for you to also share a little bit about your background in dance and how you got to this point.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I actually grew up a competition dancer.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was very, very lucky to go to a studio where we just were tiptoeing into the competition world.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: We did a handful of competitions that wasn't our whole vibe.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was a tour assistant on a competition for a while.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I moved to New York when I was 18 to study dance and um specifically dance science, so exercise science for dancers and psychology.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So really figuring out not just how a dancer's body works, but how our brains are working too.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, I danced on cruise ships, I danced in TV and film, I've done national parades like Macy's.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So really um really blessed in my dance career to to see all different environments myself firsthand of what it takes physically to to train hard to show up in all of these different spaces and in a competitive environment uh like New York City.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I really found that as a young dancer, I was struggling with those 6 a.m.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: calls.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was struggling with my self-confidence in the studio, in the audition room.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that changed when I started strength training.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I suddenly felt so empowered.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I felt so connected with my body.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to give choreographers and directors what they wanted because I understood my body better than just beyond my technical abilities.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I knew how to push myself, how to pull back and how to recover, especially for those long days and long nights on sets.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So once COVID hit, I really felt like it was, it was my passion and my job to help spread the good news and spread the word about proper strength training, safe strength training.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, Leslie, cutting down some of those myths and and kind of changing the language that we use around strength training and and from something that's scary and something that's to be tiptoed around towards something that is actually accessible to everyone and will not only um make your dancing better, but can actually make you a better person, can make you more confident, more powerful, and just take up more space in every room that you enter, which is ultimately the sneaky goal of like dancers who lived.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Very sneaky goal, but worthy one.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, uh, congrats again on everything, and we're really happy to have you here.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks for joining us.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Our next special guest is someone who I've been trying to get onto the podcast for probably three years at this point.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it finally aligned for such a long time.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it just kept getting postponed and postponed just due to all of our schedules trying to align and having it be the right fit for the right topic.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: But they are finally here and I can't wait to learn from them.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: They are the owner of Dance Prehab in California.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited to welcome Dr.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: Robert Tsai.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: Hello, hello, thank you so much, Courtney and Leslie and Amber.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_05: Very nice to be connected with you.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: I know before we started, we were talking about how just the internet and social media and the way life is now just connects us all in the small ways.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um but hello, I am uh I'm Dr.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_05: Rob Tsai.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: I am a doctor of physical therapy.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm licensed here in the state of California.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and as Courtney mentioned, I am the owner of Dance Prehab, uh Physical Therapy and Performance.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I love that we started this conversation off reflecting on COVID because I also rode that wave of COVID absolutely when there was, you know, when people had so many curiosities and questions and wondering how to, you know, make it all make sense in the in the context of dance, but also all of us trying to make it make sense in the context of life.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_05: I'm very lucky in my practice now to be a physical therapist that works primarily with um dancers.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_05: And if I were to even niche down a little bit more, we we are here in Orange County, California, which is certainly a hotbed for dance and dance learning studios programs, etc.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: And so we're very fortunate.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_05: Uh I'm very fortunate to have found my way almost back into this community because I used to, when I was working professional in LA, I used to drive down to Orange County to teach.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and this was maybe, you know, 2008, 2009.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_05: And so then to come back in a different capacity and watch how the culture had changed, but also to go through COVID and see how that culture changed.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_05: Some things have changed, some things haven't.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I think there is a I mean, every time I talk about, you know, how how things shift, I find myself going back to COVID and how that was such an unveiling of um, you know, a lot of a lot of different things uh that still need to be talked about.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um we hope that everything would slow down a bit, which everybody did, and everybody came back full force still.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_05: So uh currently um I do support dancers within the rehabil rehabilitative and healing context.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_05: And then through there, it does segue into strength and conditioning.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: My staff and I incorporate heavily strength and conditioning principles as part of rehab.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and that's making sure that the dancers have a very clear understanding of what it means to heal, but also having to, for example, maintain certain performance qualities while they are healing so they don't get, they don't feel like they have to start from square zero when they get back to dance.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and then aside from being a physical therapist and a business owner, I continue to teach.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_05: I think education has always been a huge part of uh what I believe my purpose to be.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_05: Um I chose physical therapy because there was something about remaining connected to movement and education and dance that just kind of hit the bill for me.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: Uh so currently, right now, I mean, I work with we work with studios, we work with programs, um, we collaborate with a few performing arts high school programs out here in California, as well as pre-professional training programs.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um, my wife and I both teach at Chapman University.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_05: I teach dance kinesiology and injury prevention.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then beyond that, also working, I've had the opportunity to work with a few companies as well.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_05: So um I would say something I'm very privileged to be able to say I do is to have worked and continue to work in every stage of a dancer's life.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: So when I'm working with a high schooler, I'm not just seeing them for them in high school dance.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_05: I'm thinking about what came before them.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_05: Where am I in this moment in their life and how are they gonna go off in the future and how can I set them up appropriately?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: And then beyond teaching, I've also had the chance to present at a few uh dance medicine conferences, also some educator conferences, and so kind of everywhere and nowhere, but it's um I think context is a really important to me when it comes to not just healing, but also education.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_05: And so I think there is something about the the wealth of knowledge that is available currently, but what pieces of this are going to make the most sense for this person in their life, in this place, with whatever their goals are?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, a lot of different moving parts, but um, you know, nuance.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_05: Where do we find nuance nowadays, right?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_05: So where, where?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hard to say.
• 15:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: But um, but yeah, I I I'm lucky.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_05: I I came into dance not uh not the way most people in our community do through like the competitive route or even through ballet, jazz, and tap.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_05: I actually I grew up in Taiwan.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: Um I went to an American uh American high school.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_05: And if any of you are familiar with the uh international baccalaureate program, the IB program in high schools, my dance teacher at high school piloted the first IB dance program.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like, oh, crazy.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_05: So you know, sometimes I have I have some friends now that are like, oh, I teach IB dance.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, Wow.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_05: But that's cool.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was just gonna- I was in the IB program in high school and I was like, we didn't have a dance department or a dance section of that.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I, you know, I had to deal with the science and the the math.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I did not get IB in that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I got a certificate.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if there had been dance, like maybe that would have counted towards the whole thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, absolutely.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: How lucky.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, go ahead.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: I think and I yeah, no, I was just gonna say, I think that was very instrumental in the way that I approach conversations on dance and even in the context of health, because we learned dance from a cultural perspective.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_05: Dance wasn't just ballet, jazz, tap, it was movement as an extension of a certain culture coming from somewhere where they're with a specific history.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_05: So right nowadays, everyone's talking about like ballet is not the foundation of dance, and which is, I think, important to acknowledge, but at the same time, these were the types of articles that my teacher was having us read, and this was early 2000s.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_05: So that that the idea of like culture, social energy, geopolitics, if you will, uh is intertwined with art and health for me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_05: And then strength and conditioning.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then strength and conditioning, which very much goes hand in hand with your rehabilitation and injury prevention and all of the things that we have covered many times here on the podcast, but we're gonna talk about all of it a little bit more.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: So let's jump into this wonderful chat with our fabulous guests.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you brought up something, and this was not where I was gonna start, but I told you earlier we're gonna, we're gonna go somewhere.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where that's gonna be.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, Rob, you said something about nuance.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Where do we find nuance?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: We have so much information in the year 2026.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: The internet is there, there's still books, there's a library, there's people, there's you know there's so many places you can get information.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think dancers and their parents and teachers are seeking that information, but we're inundated with it from every which away.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and some of it is not beneficial.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it's there for a click or a like or a money.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how in this particular realm that you guys work in, how do you differentiate?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: How can you advise parents and teachers to differentiate between what is useful information in the strength and conditioning world to help dancers and what is something to throw away?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big question, but I feel like it was important to start there.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Starting off strong.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, absolutely.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I when it comes specifically to if we were to stay within the lens of strength and conditioning, I'm I'm always thinking about who is the person in front of me and what are what are their goals.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_05: And so when I think about who the person is in front of me from a healthcare perspective and with our experience of working pre primarily with youth, adolescent, and young adults, the nuance comes into the growth, the nuance is going to come from the growth and maturation conversation.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_05: So who are you in this person, uh who are you in this moment, not as a dancer, but literally as a human?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_05: Because if you're looking at someone who's 11 years old versus 13 versus 15 versus 18, those are four different people to me.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um four very, very different mechanisms that are happening in their body, um, four very different ways of one learning, but two the body internalizing that learning.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um and we're not even talking about dance yet.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_05: We're just talking about can you tell, can you tell left from right or um up from down, or can you coordinate your body in a coordinated way, whatever we deem coordination to be.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_05: So uh for me, working with dancers, uh, that's where the at least on a one-on-one level, that's where that nuance comes in.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_05: So as a parent, um, and this is great.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: I just uh gave a talk with a group of high school parents last night.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_05: So, and this is nice to be able to talk about not just your child as a dancer, but your child as a developing human who has chosen dance as their preferred way of moving through the world, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_05: Learning about the world, learning about community.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_05: So um, that's more like a one-on-one.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_05: When I think about more like a group setting, the nuance thing comes into um, I always like to think of like it's not just about the person.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: In health, we talk a lot about things like biopsychosocial, where you consider the human, you consider the psychosocial side of uh the psychological side of things, and you also consider social.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_05: The other way of looking at this is uh individual task and environment.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: Who is the person?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_05: What are they being asked to do?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_05: And what are the environmental energies that also affect decision making, that also affect belief, that also affect um choice making, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_05: So to bring it back to the strictly Giddishan conversation, then that becomes about what are we, what are we trying to focus on here and what are our goals?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: Because you can say, right, oh yeah, we need to be strong.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_05: How strong for what?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_05: How?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_05: Are we is this uh medically it's is this a bone thing?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_05: Is this a tendon thing?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_05: Is this a muscle thing?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then developmentally, then you're talking about is this uh is this balance and proprioception, is this power development, is this um injury I I hesitate to say injury prevention, but are we trying to manage injury risk because we can't prevent a hundred percent?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: So yes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_05: I mean we could keep diving in deeper, but I think these are all the moving pieces that are going to inform us somehow of what the nuanced needs of the the human, right?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_05: The human who has chosen dance in front of us.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just there's a cool video, I'm gonna do that exercise and it will help me.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that's kind of where we start.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Amber, do you have anything to add as from your perspective?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm just like vigorously nodding my head with everything that Devon is saying.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so true.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's such a shame that um short form media is our preferred our our like as a as a society, our preferred source of information right now because you simply cannot get the nuance that is inherent to exactly like Dr.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Robert was saying, to the individual, to their environment, to their needs.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't do that in a 60-second clip.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: You simply can't, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um as as a dance educator, as a parent, as a dancer looking to because that's that's what we're all after.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: We want to improve, we want to stay safe.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it's so important to consider the source.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Who is who is sharing this information with us?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are their qualifications?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what are they as they produce this?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are they trying to get out of this piece of content or this piece of information?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think unfortunately, that like maybe sounds a bit cynical as you approach social media, but especially folks with kids or or children, as you should be cynical online.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, looking, looking at is this, is this someone who just needed to post something today to get clicks and to get engagement?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or is this, you know, someone who's genuinely trying to put information out there with, you know, those captions that just go on forever, where and do this and do this.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they're really trying to like add all of the nuance and all of the context that they can to when this exercise that I just posted in a 30-second clip may or may not be beneficial to you and why you may or may not want to do it or add it to your routine.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: So considering the source and also being so specific with our language, um, as you know, as someone who creates a lot of content, and I know um Dr.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Robert does too, I think language is so important.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh are we, are we, what is, what is strength training?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: What is the definition of strengthening?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or exactly are we looking at bone density?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are we looking at force generation?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are we looking at balance?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: What type, what are we strengthening?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there is so much that's getting lost in the sauce right now under the umbrella of this is strength and this is cross-training.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then you see uh you see the video and it's a dancer wrapped up head to toe in yoga bands.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, was it Robert?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Was it on your page?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think around um, I think around April Fool's you posted a video and this video dancers You know the one.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: This woman upside down on a yoga ball, wrapped up in these yoga blocks on her.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's of course that was of course that was a joke.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And but that's that's the context is like this is such an absurd, this is such an absurd thing to consider as as strength training.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So consider the context, consider the source, and and being so specific with our language can help us um kind of comb through where the nuance falls and if what I'm seeing online or what's being shown to me is is valuable to me or my student.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_05: I think that's so funny you bring that up because I actually I mean, with it within conversations and things like that, I mean, there were definitely people that either took it seriously or they they made they made and saw it like really briefly as they were scrolling through, and then they had the thought to be like, I just saw that on Dance Free Had.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like, but I know Rob wouldn't post that.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_05: But also it's there.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_05: Like, is Rob okay?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like we're ex we're exposed to these things, but at this point, we're exposed to so much of this that it's almost like normalized to the point where like people know I am, you know, of sound mind and sound body, but still are like, wait a second, let me do a double take.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_05: When my opinion is that we shouldn't have to, right?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_05: But I mean, that's because that visual that visual is of of complexity is is so it's associated with work.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's associated with um you know progress.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what that's how I feel.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you see somebody doing more and you think they're achieving more.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like if you just pick up a weight, that's doing more than tying yourself up and holding the it's just it's a lot.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like I I I think you're right to to like question the fact that people did have to do a double take because we should be doing double takes.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think Amber, Amber, you you know referenced that.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, you should be cynical, you should be skeptical, you should be taking a step back for a second and waiting.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever been rehearsing a routine and thought, I just wish I could ask a competition judge what they think of this before we compete?
• 27:30
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• 27:31
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• 27:45
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• 27:55
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• 27:57
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• 28:02
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• 28:11
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• 28:18
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• 28:23
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• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's just been interesting to kind of observe and watch how things have transpired over the past just with social media in general.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is obviously we're speaking on that with the short form content, but um, you know, it it's it has so many advantages and disadvantages at the same time because, like you mentioned, Amber, we really sometimes don't know where this information is coming from and why that person is choosing to share this information in the way that they are and what their intentions are behind it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's it's hard to get that read on and like you said, a 30-second clip.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and when I start seeing stuff that I my head kind of goes like this, then I go and I start trying to look up their credentials and I start trying to find the website and find the bio and find where they went to school and what they studied in and to make sure that there's something to back it up because um if not, then anybody can just wrap call other band and you know create some new method.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: So many methods.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: So many methods.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and it's like listen, Joseph Pilates had a method and like, you know, so like the it's real, it's a thing that can happen, but it's like I think, you know, prior to social media, many, many years ago, there were things that took time to be developed, you know, techniques and uh syllabi and things like that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: They took time and testing and things like that.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's all of a sudden I have a method and we're doing this method, and somehow the you see the kids on the video or the people on the video, and this is a whole nother can of worms, but like, did you poach those kids from somewhere else?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Were those kids already that flexible?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Were they already that strong?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now you have them in your method and they look as if they have followed your method and gotten to this point, like a different conversation, but you know, kind of kind of in the same vein.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_05: I think there's something to be said about the if I were to see the silver lining, it's almost like great, the conversation of strength and conditioning has definitely gotten more broad.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_05: You know, Amber, as you were saying, like more and more people are talking about it and how do we implement this?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_05: But I think there's also, you know, why are there so many methods out there?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: Why and how do I say this diplomatically?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_05: I can see, I can see if people are offering experiences where dancers feel seen, heard, edified, and it is a, you know, it is a positive experience for them.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_05: But when we come to the lens of strength and conditioning, I think a really great question to ask for someone who is looking to be more discerning is to ask what adaptations am I trying to achieve?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um, am I and going back to going back to some of the things I said previously, like am I trying to build a strong tendon?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_05: Am I trying to build uh explosive musculature?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_05: And there's there's an entry point to movement through the way that people repackage, I think, this ideal and an idea of strength and conditioning, because you know, you make it look like dance and it's like, oh, I can see that on my body, I'm going to just visually identify with that a little bit more.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_05: But, you know, if you do like uh uh one question I always like to ask, you know, just to get people thinking, is that if you took away all the bands or if you were just look at this exercise routine, um, does it look like choreography?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_05: And if it looks like choreography, chances are it's probably not working the things that they're saying that it does, right?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um if if all of a sudden you have a routine that works on endurance and power and balance at the same time, those are three very different qualities.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_05: So so what are we actually doing?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that just brings it back to the idea of like what adaptations are you looking for and how can you be purposeful and intentional about what your the the the same way we talk about right, nutrition or like what we're consuming.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_05: It's also like, wow, be intentional about what you're how you're trying to train your your your performance, right?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_05: Your performance capabilities.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Amber, I saw more vigorous nodding.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Anything else to add?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love your nodding.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, a reasonable conversation.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I work mainly with adult dancers, um, but some of whom are are young and early in their careers and they're coming from these studios or folks who have taught them these methods.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying, okay, well, when do I, when do I need to balance?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: When am when are we gonna balance on a yoga ball in an Arabas?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: When am I gonna do an Arebas with a a bar on my back?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: When am I, you know, when am I gonna do a devlapet or or my botmas with my my ankle weights?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And like, well, probably never if you're working with me, to be completely honest.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's a difference, there's a difference in a feat of strength versus something that is strength training and something that is strengthening you.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, Leslie, exactly like you said, where did this the the people in these videos or online?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are they strong because they're doing these exercises?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or was this a relatively strong individual in the first place who is able to perform a complicated series of movements or or extreme balance um uh feat?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, this is why I'm over here, and my neck's gonna be sore by the end of this conversation.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just I couldn't agree more.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_05: Great.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_05: I had the physical therapist come on.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Come on over.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm curious to dive into the whole flexibility chat that go that somebody mentioned earlier about being overly flexible and um and then sh with strength and conditioning connected to that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because as we've seen, even in just the past five years, and I think it is again, it seems like this is a social media chat at the same time, is because of the rise of social media and people see, oh, look at this dancer, and oh, I need to be like this dancer, and oh, this dancer does this exercise.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I need to do this exercise to look like this dancer.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of those are stemming from hypermobility, flexibility.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'd love to know where strength and conditioning comes into play for that because I feel like a lot of people want that aesthetic and think that that's what wins.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: And everyone's different with you know how flexible they are.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Some people are born that way, some people can get very flexible based on the type of training that they're doing.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: But should they be adding strength to and conditioning to support the flexibility?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: What what do you recommend?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: What are your thoughts on that?
• 35:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, Amber, I think you're it's it's wild how much these young bodies are being asked to do is absolutely I mean, we we are living in an age of just these incredible athletes who are being asked not only to perform technically complicated dance pieces at younger and younger ages and and higher levels at younger ages, but also being asked to do full tumbling routines and being asked to be contortionists on top of that as well.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, strong strong bodies, though, are resilient bodies.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Muscle is armor.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Being able to control your body through extended ranges of motions, through your end range of motion in particular, is how you stay strong, how you stay safe.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I'll let I'll let Dr.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Robert get into the more technical elements of how that happens and how those adaptations and flexibility can take place.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: But especially when I'm I'm working my older dancers and I'm seeing the results, I'm seeing that that that time that has passed, the wear and tear on the dancers whose teachers sat in them in their oversplits and who were told to hold weights on their shoulders while they're doing a a straddle or all of these really oh, you wouldn't believe it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: All these so dangerous teachers pushing them up against the wall.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just because a body can bend um doesn't mean a body won't break.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And with strength training, um I have I have found that dancers are again more more able to uh build resiliency in their bodies, recover faster, um, they're able to recognize their end range of motion, especially when we're looking at dancers who are hypermobile and don't necessarily know where that end point is by working with weights and working with resistance, you are going to be bit better able to understand, okay, this is actually what a hundred percent feels like versus if I'm hypermobile, 110% of my extension or hyperextension.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've only found weight training to be helpful and help dancers better understand and support their body.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, put on that armor in the amount of things that they are required to now do as triple and quadruple threat performers.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Amber, I really appreciate your commentary on like recognizing recognizing those endpoints because I think you know, we can't talk of hypermobility, um, talk about dancers, and especially when we're talking about younger dancers, right?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I think this is very, you know, you were talking about how you train um adults, um, and earlier we were talking about how because I work primarily with younger humans, younger bodies, strength training is going to mean something a little different to them, but along the same lines of what you're saying, it is also so they can begin to recognize those those endpoints.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_05: They have access to not even just access to strength, it's access to awareness of your strength in those places because then you're working things a little bit more, what we would say, proprioceptively, your sense of self in space.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: Do I know where my leg is?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_05: Do I know, do my muscles know how to lift to that place?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_05: Do they know how to, you know, if I were to throw in some terminology here, my my leg, if I'm lifting it up really quick, I'm accelerating my leg up.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_05: But do my handstrings know to decelerate my leg before it hits like an end range somewhere where we don't want it to hit, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_05: So, um, and especially with like the flexibility conversation, yeah, there is uh people do get affirming experiences for possessing that kind of physicality, for for having those kinds of um abilities.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_05: And I know that people often try to, you know, they're like, oh, that's what we right.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_05: Going back to the COVID conversation, we saw a lot of these flexibility uh training programs kind of swoop in and really kind of, in my opinion, capitalized on the fear of getting left behind component and was able to capture really large, uh not even just like a market, but I mean just draw the attention of a lot of people, but kind of this isn't so diplomatic, but I would probably say like preying on the feelings of inadequacy of of a lot of these younger dancers and families.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: So I would probably say now, six, seven years after COVID, it is not uncommon to see the longer lasting um consequences of having done something like that so early.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, you know, more more of these like cultural social energy conversations, which then once again influence people's decisions, which then influences their health, which you know often brings them into our space, which we hope they don't.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um but I would I also add too that with the flexibility component, um, right?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_05: Flexibility and mobility are gonna be two different things.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_05: Um flexibility is gonna be about just how can you be in that space, and mobility, generally speaking, is gonna be how can you control that space.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um and if you if you have all the ability to um right, if if you have a car that goes really fast, but you don't have the ability to stop it, then then what do we need to be purposeful about?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_05: And if you're a parent listening to this and you're like, well, I need to get into flexibility training, I need um like in order for my child to achieve X, Y, and Z aesthetic, that is a valid thought.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um I think also for us, you know, obviously working in healthcare, we're always gonna respect where the body is.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone's shaped differently.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um and and what are the ways that I know, at least for myself as a physical therapist, and and and especially incorporating strength and conditioning principles, uh, my first and foremost priority is always gonna be safety, right?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_05: We can challenge, but we have to challenge safely.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I would I would say, you know, if if a parent is thinking about working uh with someone like a flexibility coach, then I would be asking questions about well, how do you know this is safe?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_05: Not the exercise itself, but how do you know this is safe for my child?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_05: Do we need to talk to somebody else to get a better idea of where they're at?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_05: So um yeah, some some takeaways for for our listeners here.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think that the flexibility aspect to dance lately has kind of gotten to an extreme.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, obviously dancers need to be flexible.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Not not necessarily.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on what style you're doing, I guess.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, there there to me is like a a level of flexibility, like aesthetically, that is like uh there's a maximum for me.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then I feel like that we're going beyond that.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: We're going way past where we necessarily need to, and for what?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like you said, Amber, it's like we're adding contortionist to the list.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if that's what you want to be, that's great.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: You will need to know how to do X, Y, Z with your back and your hamstrings and all this to be able to get those positions.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: But or are we doing competitive dance?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't need contortion level flexibility for a competitive dance, but for some reason, all of a sudden everyone thinks that that's what the judges want, and every studio thinks that that's what they need to be training in.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I've never done an oversplit in my lifetime as a professional dancer.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just interesting to see how uh things have shifted in training methods.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: And another thing that you brought up, Amber, are the ankle weights and things.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'd like to dive into that a little because Robert, Dr.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Robert, you said that uh strength training and weightlifting will be introduced different for younger dancers, adolescent dancers, than it would be for adult grown humans.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So is the ankle weights the best way to do that?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've seen young, you know, again social media, I have literally seen eight-year-olds in ankle weights doing all kinds of stuff.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: Doing crazy stuff that I've I've never in my life has have ever done.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I have to admit, I growing up in you know, a different era, different time of training, never lifted a weight in my life until I was an adult.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that includes ankle weights.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm curious to know our thoughts on how to incorporate weight training in for young dancers, but also the phenomenon of.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: ankle weights currently.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_05: Where do I start?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_05: There right, we just talked about how like there is no nuance.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: So for the sake of, you know, for the sake of lack of nuance, generally speaking, my recommendation is it's not preferred.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_05: And my rationale for something like this, number one, is that young and developing bodies are still trying to figure out where they are in space.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_05: And so if we suddenly challenge them in a way that they can't be if we suddenly challenge them in a way that they don't know how to control, most of the conversations become about like, well, okay, you're swinging your leg really high and it's really fast and do your muscles, can your muscles like support that?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_05: Number one.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_05: From a from a dance performance and artistic perspective, I would say if you have a young dancer that can't control all of that, how are they finding stability?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_05: They're not just thinking, oh my hip flexor is stable, my core is stable.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_05: They're they're literally probably gripping their entire body to to resist against that force.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_05: So not only are you affecting things in a very sort of like it's not just a hip thing.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's not just a hamstring thing, it becomes a this is how my body understands stability which is my entire body is going to just grip and then how do you unwork that?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_05: And that's af that's actually often something I have to work with some dancers on.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_05: And that's not really like oh here's a specific exercise for that.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah it's about a reorganization of effort and especially if they're younger it's about the coordination side of things.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_05: So if we're trying to challenge dancers, they're generally and especially the younger adolescent dancers, there's going to be a place where it is where you allow their body to organize as best as it can under a certain type of stress.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_05: Now if you just ask them to work as hard as they can, once again they're just like why why yeah why do we tell our younger dancers why do we tell our younger dancers you know don't lift your shoulders up when they're um I mean use ballet as an example with like arms and high fifth, right?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_05: Because they don't understand and maybe they haven't given the experience to be able to separate effort in the legs but openness in the shoulders and the arms because that's a that's a neuromuscular coordination situation.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_05: And then the the conversation with ankle weights is always you know if you had a if you had a fishing pole and you had a longer fishing pole, it's not the the just because you put a five pound weight doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be the same force that's being acted upon, right?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_05: You have to consider the length of in this case the leg or the fishing pole with the same amount of weight.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_05: So you might have the same amount of weight at the end, but the forces that the dancers have to navigate is exponential depending on how how long the limb is right and you talk about someone going through a growth spurt, then that's a whole nother question there, right?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_05: A whole nother set of concerns.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been visual I've never thought of it like that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah well that's literally how my arm feels I put on risk sometimes and walk and it feels like my arm is a fishing pole that is just it's dangling the joints are separating like I feel like every piece so I don't really use them anymore even just for walking around because it did not feel good.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I think about kids bot my or doing a side leap or doing anything I'm like that feels like it would just feel bad.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like not even you know we have to learn as dancers the difference between like pain that hurts you and pain that helps you and like there are there is a difference.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a thing you like you said neuromusk muscularly and like in your brain you have to understand the difference.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like I don't feel that this would ever benefit me.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I put them down poor little kids.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to put them down when a teacher is telling you to put them on.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Amber you were you're not using the the weights for the bat mass literally never the the example that I give is um if you took a bucket and you just started swinging utterly you wouldn't feel your muscles working to swing that bucket of water.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: You would just feel the joint right at the joint just that sheer force grinding away.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And again with with my older dancers and with my adult dancers I'm you know you know I'll I'll work with a you know someone who's fresh out of college and say, you know, is there is there any injuries that we should know about anything.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I had I've had hip surgery yeah yeah and I'm seeing these happening more and more and more.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the dancer is strong.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: The dancer is technically proficient, but I do think that there is an element of overtraining and doing drills and exercises like this where it's like we we lost the plot.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: We lost the point or it's it seemed like a good idea at the time and yeah we got higher off the ground for a season but at what cost?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now this dancer is a year behind because they're recover they're seeing Dr.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Robert for PT and they're you know relearning to move from scratch.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: So no mix the ankle weights it's not it's not worth it.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not worth it.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well I want to bring up something trendy you know yeah it's trendy and it's it's I don't know why it's such a light lift and I say that like pun intended.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know a heavy lift is something that takes work and you know it doesn't feel good sometimes.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know it's it's a challenge to do this.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Slap on some weights you can I could do that on my treadmill.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I chose to do it because it was easy.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was an easy thing that I thought would help me.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes the easy thing is not you know the most beneficial thing to do.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to bring up something that I think it's it's a small part of the conversation but it got me thinking about just longevity.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we we've talked a lot about like humans just we are humans.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're humans who choose to move through the world and dance and I love that way of thinking about it.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: But think about your yourself in 20 years.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Think about myself in 20 years.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is it going to benefit me to be hypermobile if I wasn't supposed to be if my body wasn't already like that if I forced my body at some point to stretch my my leg above my head when I'm 60 do I need that or do I need to be able to pick my groceries up and walk up the stairs?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do I need to be able to pick my grandchild up and carry them down the street?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's the strength I think is the the better goal and it's hard to think about that when you're a child, obviously, you know, even as a 20 something it's like well I have this job to do I have this audition to go to and the girl that booked it last time kicked her face.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: But the strength is just where your life is going to be elongated hopefully you know to be able to have that power and have that um stamina.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to hear Amber you know your your take on how you train dancers with longevity in mind because you are training professionals and people who do want to dance for another years, you know, and you need that strength there.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely absolutely I think I think when we hear longevity the immediate draw is what more should I be doing?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And even even with our kids, what more should my child be doing in their already they're already they're already dancing 30 hours a week what more should they be doing?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know talent can't grow from a depleted artist.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: It cannot grow from a depleted kid.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we're thinking about longevity, when we're thinking about the lifespan of our body of our brain, we have to make sure that we are well nourished we have to make sure that we are well rested and we have to make sure that we are well adjusted.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if we are not well fed, well rested and well adjusted and have our all of these buckets full, talking about anything else is superfluous.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: So so if you're not if you're a dancer who is not eating enough, if you're a dancer who is not sleeping enough, if stay staying up staying at the studio an extra 30 minutes and running your solo an extra 30 minutes that you could be home and sleeping, that's especially for young growing dancers, that is what's going to fill that longevity bucket.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: If your dancer is backstage at a competition and they are crashing out about sequins falling off of their hairbow, that's not a well adjusted dancer.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very stressed young person.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to again ask ourselves what is their what is their longevity look like from that sense?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because like this whole conversation we keep climbing gaps at this point, we are peepers.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: We are we are humans first and those things matter most.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Your body will will your body will adapt to whatever stress and stimulus you give it.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are constantly giving it quote unquote bad stress and you're constantly asking your body to run on fumes and perform when you're tired and run on three, four hours of sleep and my adult dancers are running on 300 400 milligrams of caffeine like buzzing your longevity is on a downward trend.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: You might, you're barely surviving.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, absolutely strength training like I said it's it's armor for our bodies we know that it it helps our our muscles well after after the age of 30, we start to lose muscle mass, we start to lose bone density, you know, all of these things that are very important to think about.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: But again for for the parents who are listening and for the dance educators who are listening, looking at your young dancers and dancers who are early in your career, even thinking about strength training and adding that additional stress into your life is not even necessary if you cannot check off the well-rested, well nourished and well adjusted buckets in my opinion.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think there's so many things.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_05: I think with longevity, you know, how do we make longevity make sense to somebody who hasn't been alive for very long especially working with dancers.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_05: But I I think you know going back to the idea of like strength and conditioning and introducing these ideas in a way that right like makes sense for them or perhaps it's something that they can take with them.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_05: I always tell them that you know I think that's why it's important to teach to teach movement qualities and teach adaptation than necessarily teach exercise depending on the group you're with, right?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_05: Because they they'll they can understand exercise if they understand exercise as a movement, great, maybe that's an entry point but at some point we have to talk about the ability to move quick, the ability to stop fast, the ability to be powerful and my go-to example is I'll I will tell them like hey I'm teaching you guys these things because right now your your dance demand, your life will ask you to move like this because that's what dance is right depend or depending on once again working a highly competitive in a com an environment where many of them do participate in competition dance will ask you to do all sorts of things and so are you training your about your body to are you training the ability to do those things or are you just training like a shape, right?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_05: Different goals.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_05: So I'll tell them you got to move fast.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_05: You gotta move quick.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_05: For you it's about dance.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_05: For me as um I have two young kids a three year old and a three week old and so being able to do those things.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_05: Life yeah but being able to being able to move being able to move that way for me is not about dance anymore but it's about can I keep my kids from running into the street.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's this nice way I think of presenting it in a way where oh yeah this is I'm I'm teaching my body to move this way.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_05: Right now it's about dance but in the future it's going to be about something else.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe that helps give them a little bit of context in the human lens for dance but also for themselves as a person.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah but you know I I think the the wellness in the longevity conversation I mean even outside of dance is getting getting really big and so I'm sure a lot of these younger dancers are seeing their parents also participate in right wellness challenges and um things of the sort and so I think there there are opportunities to to connect these ideas with them and strength and conditioning is absolutely a way I think to to instill these principles for the long term thanks so much for joining us for our episode this week all about the truths and trends in strength and conditioning.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: Huge shout out to our special guests Amber and Dr.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: Rob for joining us on this wonderful discussion.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram you can find Amber at DancerspoolLift and Dr.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Rob at dr.robtie dot video also be sure to check out their programs.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: Amber's online personal training and nutrition coaching for the elite performer is available by clicking the link in her Instagram bio.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: And Dr.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: Rob hosts many educational support workshops for the adolescent artist athlete as well as treats dancers at his Orange County California facility.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_03: Learn more on their website and follow them on Instagram at Dance Prehab don't forget to follow Making the Impact anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: And new for season eight we're on video.
• 57:36
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• 57:46
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• 58:01
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• 58:06
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• 58:14
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• 58:21
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• 58:30
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• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are on a roll in season eight with some excellent episodes coming your way.
• 58:41
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• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: See you next week on Making the Impact