Latest / Outside The Therapy Room / Episode 73 - Money & Mental Health with Kathleen Beech

Transcript

Episode 73 - Money & Mental Health with Kathleen Beech · Outside The Therapy Room

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: As well as personal experiences and reflections on the focus of normalizing our human and helping you see that you're not allowed to outside the therapy room.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to outside the therapy room.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited about our conversation today.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am joined by Kathleen Beach.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: She is the senior wealth advisor at Beach and Associates IG Wealth Management, and we will be talking about finances and mental health.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of the times we think like money can't buy happiness, but it can definitely make our lives a lot easier.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so thank you, Kathleen, for being here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: How's your morning so far?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely looking forward to this conversation.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that I feel um there's a lot of questions in this sort of industry and and surrounding finance and how it affects mental health.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're getting better at talking a bit more about it, but it's still, you know, something that a lot of people keep very close to the chest.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it'll be a great conversation today.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And before we get started, we uh outside the therapy room like to give you an opportunity to share a little bit about yourself and your profession.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So what kind of brought you to working in finances?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually a funny story.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you the cool notes version of it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do after high school, and um I took a job at Money Mart, and it was just gonna really work really well for my schedule and allow me to um do my homework and things like that.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to figure out what to go to university or college for and had all these different ideas, and my dad sat me down and kind of talked to me about you know, what do you want your life to look like and where do you want to live and do you want to have a family, and really sort of steering my thoughts around what I wanted to do for a living, around the type of life that I wanted.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that was a really good sort of piece of advice or really big conversation for me because I realized that, you know, there were a lot of things that I wanted to do that sounded fun or, you know, sort of up my alley when it came to the interests that I had.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I also knew that it may take me from, you know, moving away from where all my family and friends are, it may make me, you know, have to work hours that I don't necessarily want to work if I'm raising a family, things like that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't always the strongest in math, but when I started working in an institution where I felt like people were coming in every day and having to take payday loans and cash checks and lose money that they didn't necessarily need to be losing just because they struggled with how to budget and how to get through to their next pay.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it really started to kind of weigh on me and made me realize that I really liked having conversations with people and helping to alleviate some of the stress by giving them little bits of advice.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you just take a little bit less each time, you know, you could probably get out of this in however many pay cycles.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it just started to feel like a natural fit.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and then I ended up applying uh to Conestoga College for the Business Administration Financial Planning Program.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I kind of went from there.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I was hired as a co-op student by a major bank when I was in my second year.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a full-time job during the summer to learn about banking and sort of the ways of the world with when it comes to that.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had a full-time job when I came out of school, which was really nice, and uh yeah, just kind of worked my way through a whole bunch of different positions in the bank.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then um about 12, almost 13 years ago, um, I was pregnant with my daughter and an opportunity came up at the bank to be a financial planner and like a mobile financial planner, and it really aligned with kind of family life and the ability to work from home and things like that and build a business.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I applied for that and I was able to uh to do that for just over 10 years.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I grew my business to a place where I felt really great with the relationships that I had, but I felt like something was missing.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I had more to offer to clients and to do more for them.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so it got to the point where I just decided to um look at sort of what else was out there and I interviewed uh quite a few other firms to see what would be the right fit for me.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh IG was the clear sort of winner after speaking with a bunch of different institutions.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I've been here just celebrated two years, and uh I have a team under me now, and and we work quite closely to take care of our clients and kind of give them that peace of mind when it comes to their finances, and we'll talk a bit more about that.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you really have had like so much experience in this field, especially right out of high school, which is really cool.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that your dad kind of sat you down to really have that, you know, serious conversation.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think a lot of people get that kind of like, hey, where do you want to go in your life?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And just like a very honest conversation, not about what you want to do, but what you want your life to look like when you're older, which obviously in that moment in high school, like you have so many forks on the road that you can take.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's really cool that you have that insight.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what we do also on our podcast is we're outside the therapy room.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we also want to know a little bit about you outside of your profession.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So is there anything you're comfortable sharing with us about about you?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm married to my husband Brian, and um, we have two children.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a daughter from a previous marriage, and then Brian has a daughter, Haley.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we have two girls together, Rowan and Haley, and um navigating a blended family, which is something that I feel like gives me a lot of um a lot of ammo when having those conversations about how that works and kind of the financial impact of bringing two families together.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we love to spend time together.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: We love to go to a lot of sporting events.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're big uh Toronto Maple Leafs, Buffalo Bills, Toronto Blue Jay fans.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So lots of sporting events and kind of traveling around to watch our teams.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: We love going to concerts, um, just spending time with friends and family.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then last year we actually bought a rental property on Lake Huron, uh like a short-term rental cottage.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've been renovating that and uh and renting that out.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's something that's been a little project for us, and also just giving us the opportunity to spend time at the lake, which is my happy place.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I just feel like it's one of the only places where I can go and just fully disconnect from work and life and just relax a little bit and spend time with family and friends and just really give you perspective on life and you know how precious it is.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, just a pretty uh a pretty big proponent of spending time with family and friends and just making the best of the time that you have.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And being by the water is so nice, especially when we get our summers and even into the fall, like right now, it's so pretty being by the water.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's lovely.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you have a lot, again, like I mentioned, financial experience, but also like lived experience of something we're gonna be talking about, which is finances and the family and everything.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for sharing.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I'm so excited for you to be here.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing that I see in my line of work through therapy is how finances impact our emotion.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of financial stress, financial anxiety.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, rightfully so, it can be scary to have to, you know, look at the bank account and feel like, you know, anxiety about how you're gonna pay rent or groceries, especially with things becoming so much more expensive nowadays.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a lot for folks.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what do you see with your clients in terms of like emotions that tend to come up most often when people are talking about money?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: I would definitely say, you know, that the anxiousness of not knowing, you know, I think a lot of people have, you know, they know how much comes in in their paycheck and they know, you know, they've got expenses.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And most people are like, yeah, there's not a lot left at the end of the day for things like savings and investing and and all those things and and having fun doing the things that we really want to do.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, it's it's hard enough to just pay the bills, like you said, and and the cost of everything is just rising like crazy.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, how do you prioritize making sure all your bills are paid and then have anything left for doing things that you want to do?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I would say the the main emotions are are that anxiety, but it's it's a lot to do with just feeling like you don't know where to start and and sort of the unknown and not having as much knowledge when it comes to your finances and how much should be going towards, you know, your housing, how much should be going towards, you know, all of the other expenses that are not necessarily set in stone every month.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would say embarrassment is a big one as well.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people we live in a world where people compare themselves to one another, especially with social media.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the big questions that I get on a regular basis is like, based on, you know, my age, am I, you know, ahead of the norm?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Am I about the same or am I behind?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's kind of funny because there really isn't a norm, right?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: It really depends on what your goal is, it depends on, you know, what you're trying to accomplish.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard for me to compare you to someone else if if those things are are not the same, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, as we know, you know, everyone's different, everyone has different goals.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of just shame and not knowing, a lot of embarrassment and just a lot of fear around, am I gonna have enough?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if that next HX doesn't come, if I lost my job, you know, how would I survive?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of thing.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people in that position.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something we talked about right at the intro of this episode was that money can sometimes be a taboo topic.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's something that is like hush, hush, don't talk about it, don't talk about how much you're making, don't talk about, you know, how much or how you can't purchase something.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much like there's already a lot of shame attached around even having a conversation around finances.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so the comparison piece on top of it, it can just be really hard for folks.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's good that they have somebody like you to kind of talk about and figure out what all these finance stressors are.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm finding too, like a lot of people who maybe are like quote unquote, like financially stable or technically quote unquote, like have enough money, whatever that means for that person, they can still have such an elevated anxiety around things.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so why do you think money can even create anxiety for folks who are feeling like they're stable and like they're they technically have enough?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think most people who feel sort of stable, as you say, with money, probably at some point were in a position where they maybe didn't feel that way.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden, when they get to a point where they feel comfortable, they're like, oh, I remember what it's like to not feel comfortable and I don't want to go back there.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's the fear of will this last forever and am I doing things the right way?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I come into people's lives a lot of times, you know, quite far into their lives and into their sort of investing and savings journey and all of those things.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and, you know, what if you know anything about money, it, you know, the longer you have to save or invest, you know, the easier it is and the less you actually have to do over time.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about timing.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so the more the longer you put it off and the more you stress about it and that sort of fear of, okay, well, I have enough money now, but what does that translate into in the future?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always that question of, you know, what's the magic number?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of hate that question because the magic number for you versus me versus, you know, our friends and family, it's different, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really dependent on what kind of lifestyle you want, where you're gonna live, you know, what you want to do in retirement, things like that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we focus so much on the long term that sometimes we forget to talk about the now.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And are you, you know, making the right decisions now to be able to live the life that you want now, but also setting yourself up for a successful future.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think it's uncommon to have, you know, fear, anxiety, or or stress about money, even if you are in a comfortable position.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there are so many factors at play, right?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like so many individual factors that each person is kind of, you know, going through or goals have goals towards.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um in in my therapy room with clients when finances come up, my question is always curiosity towards how finances were talked about when they were kids around their parents, because I think there's a lot that we learn, obviously, like through all of our episodes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think in our podcast, we've talked about how our early experiences and childhood shape kind of our views and you know, part of who we are when we're older.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the relationship with money can really um kind of start being developed based on how we see money being discussed with our parents, how or like our observation about how finances are impacting our family, conversations about like with our family, about like, no, we we can't afford that or we can't do this, or we can't, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much of that.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, there is already so much that um is shaped by like what we're experiencing growing up, but how much of that do you see in your line of work of the relationship with money being shaped by by what we learned growing up?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that almost all of what we feel about money and how we approach money, especially when we talk to our kids, comes from what we learned growing up.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's one of those things that I don't necessarily feel is something that people are always on the same sort of wavelength when it comes to what their parents taught them.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people go completely the opposite way because they don't like how they grew up and how their parents talked about money and how it made them feel.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a lot of times I find that people tend to go the complete opposite.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: For example, you know, if someone says to me, Yeah, growing up, my parents always talked about how, you know, we don't have a lot and we have to work really hard for our money and you know, we have to be really careful about how we spend our money.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, they get to a point where now they have children and they're like, you know what?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give my kids everything that they've ever wanted, and I'm gonna, you know, let them experience playing every sport under the sun and doing every activity that they want to do, and we're gonna go on all these like great vacations because you know, they have kind of that YOLO mentality where they're just like, whatever, you know, you don't know how long you're on this earth, we're just gonna have a great time and and spend the money now.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that everyone has sort of the idea of how they want their kids to feel about money, and so they they try to instill in them, you know, whatever the the thoughts are that I think there's definitely a fine line, you know, between talking to your kids about money and talking to your and and sharing your anxiety about money with your kids because you know, if your kids are always in fear of, oh well, we don't have enough money to buy groceries, so we're never going to be able to do something, it can, you know, it can cause a lot of anxiety with children.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same, you know, on the same, you know, line there, you you definitely want to make sure that your kids are understanding of how money works.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the biggest issue that I see is that, you know, the next generation comes up and their parents have worked really hard to put them in a position financially where they can have the life that they want to have.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next generation is on a totally different wavelength.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: For example, business owners are a big one where there's like a family business and they've worked from the ground up and developed this business and worked really hard and went through those really, you know, tough years that most businesses go through when they first start out.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's a lot of money going out and not a lot coming in to start to kind of get momentum.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next generation comes in and they kind of just walk in thinking, like, okay, this business is already set, and I'm really just gonna be able to sit here and collect a paycheck because you know, my parents are gonna hand me this business.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you see a lot of businesses fail in that second and third generation because the sort of the background of really building that business is is gone.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I can see a lot of families have a lot of turmoil over that because you know, mom and dad or grandma and grandpa started the business, and then the kids or grandkids don't feel the same way about it and don't necessarily treat things the same way, and all of a sudden things start to fall apart.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, I've seen the other way where the kids come in and they're like, we can make this business a bit more efficient, and you know, we can build this and we can do this and we can do that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's amazing how much our our childhood and how we talk about money really does impact our kids and the fact that we don't learn about finance in school really at all, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: We don't learn about how to make a budget, a basic budget.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: We don't learn about you know the different vehicles that we can use to invest or save and why you should use them or why you shouldn't use them or whatever the case.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when you come out of school and you have all this debt, and then you all of a sudden you're starting to make money, you get a job, you don't typically know where to start and you don't know where to turn and who to talk to, and you don't have that sort of baseline knowledge.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you're just kind of flying blind.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't find someone to talk to that you trust, then it can be really challenging.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, yes, I wish we were taught in school, sometime in high school, like part of the curriculum to like have finances and income taxes discussed.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like when you're an adult, you're like, whoa, what what's happening?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: What is all of this?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it would be good to kind of have that in our curriculum somewhere.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do appreciate you talking generationally about how finances then change because if you, you know, what I've seen sometimes is maybe somebody who comes from a family who's relatively wealthy and good with money, and then that can then create the perception of I'm always gonna be fine or it's it's all gonna be okay, have this finance stability, and then they go and venture out on their own, and they might be very, you know, lucrative with their like they're just you know, maybe using up their money because they kind of have this belief that it's always gonna be there, and then there's always there's also examples of maybe families who maybe didn't have a lot of money, and so that kind of caused their child to then work really hard at making, you know, the money that they need, but also then collecting kind of like all of those nuts for like uh what's it called when you're hibernating, like they're just really, really great savers, but then they are have a hard time like spending on themselves and afraid to spend.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: In the clients that I'm working with is that they actually are fearful of spending the money that they've they've saved.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going, you know, I I can do my job and I can earn you a good return on on that money and I can help you save as much tax as possible and all those things, but I can't force you to spend.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of those things where it's like, if you're not gonna spend your money, then we need to come up with a strategy on how you're gonna gift it to the next generation or you know, what you're gonna do, because there's so many people now that they're so fearful that if they, you know, they spend too much or they, you know, they buy the car that they've always dreamed of or they go on this lavish trip that it's going to affect them.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have a financial plan and you can say, okay, if you make this purchase, this is what it looks like, this is how it impacts your plan.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people, you know, if they saw that it impacted their plan so minimally, they would probably make those decisions.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's where the gold is in what I'm able to do for people is to really take that anxiety away by showing them in black and white, okay, if you make this decision, if you make this purchase, if you gift some money to your kids, if you, you know, you buy that home, you buy that property, whatever it is, this is how it impacts your overall plan.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the impact it has on your tax situation, your estate, your retirement, all of those things, your cash flow.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then they can clearly go, okay, well, now that I have all that information, it's easier for me to make that decision.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think people, when it comes to especially big financial decisions like buying a home, buying a vehicle, you know, buying another property, gifting money to kids, whatever it is, they don't know the impact, it's very hard to make that decision because it's like, I think I'm okay, but I don't really know for sure.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that actually translate to in the future?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if if things don't go the way that we expected.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I think running those what if scenarios and those worst case scenarios is really important because when it comes to finances, it's all about just having the clarity and the confidence to make decisions.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so much going on in your mind based on how your parents have talked about things and what people are what advice people are giving you when they don't know your financial situation that you're listening to.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the amount of times I hear, oh yeah, this guy at work told me that I should do this, or you know, my aunt said this.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking, okay, does your aunt or the guy at work know your financial situation?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do they know how much you have saved for retirement, or do they know that you've been saving for this trip for 10 years?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, do they know what your cash flow looks like?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's hard for someone to give you financial advice based on having very little information.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think a lot of that anxiety is like based on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like those beliefs that kind of came up in childhood through their family, and then just a lot of fear of the unknown.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great that there's, you know, people like you who can really look at the numbers and say, you can go on that trip and you'll be completely okay.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there is, you know, we're we're here to also enjoy our lives and enjoy the money that you've been saving through your work and also save and, you know, have all of that and take care of like all of the responsibility things that you have to take care of.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of the time there is a lot of that like hesitation or fear to even just spend some of that well-earned money.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we kind of, I guess, jumped into our next question, which are these um like stories that people can tell themselves about money.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just really bad with money.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: If we were, you know, again, that can sometimes be a message that's passed on to us from somebody older, a parent, a relative, um, or the message of like, oh, I'll never be able to afford that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Money disappears as soon as I get it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like all of these kind of money stories.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are some common money stories that you have heard from people when they come to see you?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because when I do financial planning for people, we have to make a lot of assumptions.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to talk to them about, you know, when do you think your sort of target retirement date is or what, you know, what do you want to put into the plan to see different scenarios?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to see, you know, 65?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to see 60, 55?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people are like, oh, I'm gonna be working until I'm 70 or 80.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, so what makes you think that you're gonna be working until you're 70 or 80?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because you just want to work till you're 70 or 80?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because that may be a whole other conversation, or is it that you think you're never gonna have enough money saved and then that you need to work that long because in being able to retire at a reasonable age, you know, there's there's so many stories that people tell each other, but I think the biggest one, like you said, is is I'm really bad with money.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think so many people come, you know, to conversations about money and they love to put themselves down.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: They love to say, you know, I'm just really bad and I don't understand it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they just avoid it entirely.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a bit of a coping mechanism to be able to just say, I don't really know anything about it, so I'm just gonna not think about it or not talk about it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is that money affects us every single day.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Every, you know, decision you make, whether you're gonna get a Tim Hortons or Starbucks coffee on your way to work or you're gonna make it at home, all of those decisions typically, even though they're small decisions, have to do with financially what you're able to do, right?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time, people will do things because they feel that they can afford it or they feel like they deserve it, or you know, it's something that makes them happy or whatever the case is.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And finance a lot of times is about small changes rather than huge shifts.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like once people start to prioritize what their money can do for them and why they're spending money in certain ways, and they really get their head around what's the ultimate goal and how am I gonna get there.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And do I need to make a few little sacrifices here and there between, you know, now and when I need this money?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is that something I'm willing to do?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's not, and sometimes it is.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I brought it before things like, you know, having your kids play sports or, you know, be able to take them on vacations and things like that.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are things that are typically sacrifices that you need to make to be able to afford that in a sort of a normal, normal household where two parents are working.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is that, you know, there's not usually a ton of excess money at the end of every month.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, people will spend, you know, pretty close to what they're earning and maybe they have some savings that happens, but there isn't usually this abundance of money where they're just like, yeah, you know, we can spend it on whatever we want.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So then it starts to become, okay, do we let our kids play one sport each or two sports, or you know, do we go on one vacation a year or five, or do we go once every three years?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think people don't necessarily have a plan for that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So they just kind of wing it and they just kind of think like, you know, we're just gonna do it.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: My grandparents grew up, you know, and and raised me and and talked to my parents about, you know, we we may never have that money to go on a trip.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we just borrow a little bit of money from the credit union every every month or sorry, every every year to be able to go on like a little family vacation, and then we spend the rest of the year paying it off.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of just the way that they did it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason being was because they were like, we don't know how long we're gonna be on this earth.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if we wait until we're retired to go on that trip, make family memories, see, you know, the country or see the world, we may never get the chance.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then my grandfather died very young.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And my grandma lived 30 years beyond him.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so if they wouldn't have done that, even though they didn't necessarily have the means to be able to do that, they didn't have the money saved.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was their way of saying, you know what, we know we're probably not going to be able to save this.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just gonna borrow a little bit and then we're gonna pay it off.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was their way of doing it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe it wasn't the most financially, you know, advantageous for them because they had to pay a bit of interest throughout the year on that money they borrowed, but it's something she talked about for years, being able to travel and and enjoy, you know, those trips and have those memories before he got sick and passed away.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've I've really changed the way that I think about money in a lot of sense because, you know, there's different ways to access money and everywhere you look, people are trying to give you money and and have you have you borrow it from them.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there's ways to to structure things as long as it works for you and you're comfortable with it.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's a lot of different ways to to manage your money and and also have it support the lifestyle that you want.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: The main message I hear is oh my gosh, I could never afford that.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the example that your grandparents set of maybe we can't afford it right now, but that shouldn't limit us from being able to explore and sh have like these family memories together, right?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And be being a little creative and taking a little risk to do that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Cause for some people, you know, that that is feels like a little bit of a financial risk.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that's so lovely that your grandpa was able to absolutely yeah, that he was able to kind of have that experience.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, imagine if they waited until retirement to do any traveling or to, you know, spend that time with their kids making memories and seeing, you know, the world and the country, they they wouldn't have had had the chance to do that, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, you're taking a bit of risk, but in that sense, you know, it it certainly paid off because the memories are there and you know, they were able to experience that before he got sick.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there is so many messages that come along, but and then there's ways of being creative, safe, like you know, taking like low, what is it called, like a low risk kind of things to be able to kind of still do the things that folks want to do.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but okay, moving into more practical kind of talk, I guess, when there's so much, there's so much out there, especially on social media about budgeting.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, here's a budget plan, here copy my PDF thing about like how to budget.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think like make a budget is advice I think almost everybody has heard at some at one point or another.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But actually sitting down and doing it can be quite overwhelming.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, like I said, there's so many, there's so much noise around it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone has never had a budget before, what should where should they actually start?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: So Excel is my friend.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've used Excel for 20 years to help people with budgeting because I feel like there's so many things out there.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's apps, there's all these like spending trackers and all these things.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's nice to think that every single day at the end of the day, you're gonna write down everything you spent and all like the reality is is we're busy and we're lazy for the most part.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're probably not going to, you know, track our spending every day.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: We may not even do it every month.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is really important is to just have a very basic spreadsheet or place where you can keep your information that shows what you have coming in.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: So after you, you know, after you're paid and your taxes are taken off, what goes into your bank account, you know, you record that.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And some people have a very, you know, simple, they have a salary, it's the same every two weeks, every, you know, twice a month, every month, whatever it is.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, you've got your expenses.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you write down your expenses, your mortgage, property taxes, or your rent, um, you know, your groceries, all of those things, car payments, insurance, all of those expenses if you have life insurance, all of those things.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of things that are very consistent through the year that are the same every month, or you know, they come out quarterly or whatever it is.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you can you can write those down.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: The thing where people get really bogged down and confused about budgeting is all of the expenses that are not consistent.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're not fixed.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're kind of those discretionary expenses like Amazon, things like that, where you, you know, some months you spend a lot, other months you don't spend a lot.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, those are the ones that are really hard to track when you have a budget because you know, sometimes there's certain months where you have two birthdays and you've got a couple of gifts, and you know, sometimes it's Christmas and there's a lot more expenses and things like that.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's where people get like, oh, well, you know, my expenses are all over the place, so I don't know how to budget.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: What I typically will do is, and what I'll work with clients through is okay, let's do a budget where we kind of we put in what we think we spend.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you have January to December, you put in kind of what your what your net incomes are coming into your bank account every month, you know, both of you or one of you, and then you put all of those fixed expenses in a section where you know those are fairly consistent, and then you put sort of a discretionary expense section where they're gonna fluctuate.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you average it out over 12 months and you think you spend$500 a month on groceries for your family, put that in.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I typically say, however often you want to do it, I like to use quarterly, so you're only doing it four times a year.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't seem like such an overwhelming thing to do.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sit down and go through your bank statements, your credit card statements, and actually plug in how much you spend in each of those sort of areas.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're saying, okay, I think we spend$500 a month on groceries and I think we spend$300 a month on Amazon, and then we have all these subscriptions and all these different things.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we go out to eat maybe twice twice a month, so that's$200 or whatever it is.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: You put all these expenses in and kind of what you think you spent, and then you have a call of what you actually spent.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think a lot of the disconnect is is oh, I think I only spend this, but we actually spend this, which could be less or could be more.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And some months are obviously going to be less, and some months are gonna be more, but then you average it out.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So then next year you can go, okay, well, I thought that I was spending$500 on groceries, but I'm actually spending$720 on average on groceries every month.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: And is that because, you know, we're not looking for sales, or is that because you know, groceries have just gone up so much in price?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like try to figure out what it is that that there's such a disconnect, right?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or if there's things where you're like, oh, we spend more, you know, we spend money on this, but not this, and you're not spending money there, like having fun, you know, entertainment, going to do something that you enjoy.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not spending enough money there because you're spending too much on all the other expenses, well, maybe there needs to be some adjustments where you start to sacrifice a little bit on some of the things that, you know, shifting money from A to B to be able to have fun.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the reality is there's not a lot of ways to add more money to the net income unless, you know, you get a promotion at work or you get another job or you know, you find a side hustle or something like that.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So usually trying to increase the income obviously is is a goal, but it's hard to accomplish sometimes.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: So just working within what you have.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people think it's overwhelming because if they talk to a financial planner, they're gonna say, well, you're only saving$100 a pay to retirement, but in order to retire, you're gonna need to pay, you know, you're gonna need to spend or save a thousand dollars a pay or something like that, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So they think that it's this huge leap that they would need to sacrifice everything that they're doing to be able to have this retirement.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: So they're just like, oh, it's so hard to accomplish, we're just gonna ignore it and not worry about it, right?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a good financial planner is not gonna say to you, yeah, you should be spent, you should be saving a thousand dollars a pay because they know that that's the reality is that's not going to happen.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's where are the little incremental changes that we can make?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe you need to cancel a couple subscriptions, maybe you need to limit yourself to what you're spending every month on Amazon on things that you may not necessarily need, but you just buy it because it's convenient, right?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of things that you can do, but I think having a budget that you put in what you think you're spending, and then every few months going in there and recording what you're actually spending and then giving yourself a little bit of a gut check, I think is is a really great way to see where you are and see where those sort of areas are that can be improved.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a good point.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, it can be really overwhelming for folks to kind of like really schedule the time to sit down and to really go through all of that.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's anxiety inducing.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking at numbers that you know, normally you don't think about because now everything's so accessible, like you're just on your phone and you just beep it and you sometimes you don't even hear how much the total was or whatever it could be.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so actually sitting down and going through the numbers can be a lot, but I it sounds like it can be really helpful to figure out exactly where people are at depending on their goals and how you know how like then you can maybe create a plan for how they can reach their goals.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that brings us to our next question, which is like, how would you recommend someone figure out what they can realistically spend on fun things like eating out, shopping, vacations, or like entertainment after like the budgeting portion?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is a big thing that a lot of people spend money on, but don't necessarily actively save money for or set money aside in their budget for and know sort of how much they should be spending.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is something that I've always really focused on with people is that you do still have to enjoy your life and you do still have to spend money on things that bring you joy.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you just work all day, every day, and then you never get an opportunity to, you know, spend the money on things doing doing the things you want to do, it's just on the things that you have to do, like you know, keeping a roof over your head and and eating and you know, being able to have a vehicle to get you to and from work or your kids to and from school.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's there's things in life that you just have to do, and then there's other things where you want to do.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're constantly just spending money on the things that you have to do, there's not gonna be a lot of enjoyment in your life.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's gonna feel like, well, what's the point in working this hard?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or what's the point in, you know, having this goal if I'm never gonna be able to reach it.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that it's really important, and I think everybody's sort of amount that they should set aside for fun is different because it depends on, you know, how lavish you like to travel, or how many trips you want to go on a year, or you know, what you do find fun.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like some people find you know it really enjoyable to go out for a nice fancy meal, and some people are like, you know what, I just want to be able to buy Starbucks on my way to work every day, and that brings me joy.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many things that really come down to what's important to the individual.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where having someone to talk to that knows who you are as a human being and knows what your priorities are and what makes you happy is, you know, it's really important because if you just try to create a plan over, you know, looking at somebody's budget and balance sheet and tax returns without knowing who they are, it's really hard to make those decisions.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say it's really important, uh kind of a rule of thumb, I would say you want to put 5% of your overall sort of income, your net income, into some kind of savings or you know, investment where you can have some fun with that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's at a minimum, you need to at least put aside about 5% of the money that you get every month in your bank account towards something that you find enjoyable.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And just figuring out what that is for you is is a whole other ballgame.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that that's that's kind of a a bare minimum.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, those are good things to keep in mind.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: And 5% doesn't seem like too much, right?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like doable depending again on what the what the finances are coming in, but it seems doable, which is nice and it can make us feel a little bit more optimistic about saving for those things that are fun for us.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody is living paycheck to paycheck and is maybe really struggling with budgeting, then what's something that you would tell them?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, first and foremost, have a budget and understand where your money is going because a lot of times when people are living paycheck to paycheck, it's because those discretionary expenses are getting a little bit out of control.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Usually, you know, hopefully your your rent and mortgage part of your um part of your pay is is going to obviously housing, and there's nothing we can do about that unless, you know, you're living beyond your means when it comes to where you're living.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of people who, you know, have an idea of what they want in terms of a home or you know, where they're renting, they want a specific type of home, a size of home, or neighborhood, or whatever the case.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times they can't afford it and they stretch themselves thin to be able to afford it.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what causes them to, you know, be living paycheck to paycheck because those fixed expenses, by the time those are all taken care of, there's very little left for discretionary.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you're spending discretionary and then there's none left for savings, it's going to be this vicious cycle and not you're really not going to be able to accomplish anything, and and you're probably going to have a lot of anxiety.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just figuring out what the priorities are.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe do you need to step back and maybe downsize your home or you know, look at having a property that you can have some income from to get you through those, you know, those times when it's a little bit more tight financially.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a lot of ways that you can sort of adjust what you're doing or or change your financial situation by making small changes, but there are, you know, some big changes that some people do have to make.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think our generation is really good at prioritizing, you know, their mental health and and having personal time and things like that.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we're we're still in that mindset of, well, if I want something, I'm just gonna get it.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if I have if the bank's gonna approve me for this amount of mortgage, then I'm just gonna take the whole amount.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I was doing mortgages when I worked at the bank, and people would say, okay, you know, what's the max that I can afford?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I always felt sick to my stomach seeing the amount that they would be approved for.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say to them, you know, this is the amount that you can technically afford, but this is like bringing you right to your limit.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if anything goes wrong, you're gonna be in a bit of trouble.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say you probably only want to borrow like 70 to 80 percent of that max at most because I don't want you to be house for and I don't want you to be in this situation where you know you can't afford to do anything else other than just pay your mortgage.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lot of people out there who just go to their max, and then that right from the get-go puts them in a position where things are are tight.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So just making sure that your your income and and all of your expenses leave you with some space, some breathing room if things weren't to go the way that you thought they were going to.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: If there's like one small financial habit that somebody could start this week, what would you suggest to them that would maybe make a difference?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would say saving systematically, which means saving with every pay, regardless of what you're saving for, just some type of regular savings.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't have an automatic pay yourself strategy every single time you get paid, whether it's to your tax-free savings account for an emergency fund, whether it's to a registered education plan for your kids' education, to your RSP for your retirement, to something that will give you some type of savings.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't get in the habit of that, you will be behind in terms of you know being able to take advantage of the time that you have to save and invest because, like I said, it's all about timing.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the earlier you start, the less you have to do.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing how many people I talk to that are in their 40s and even early 50s that have just started to think about retirement and and how much they should be saving or just starting to save.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they've given up so many years of being able to save a small amount throughout, you know, their the last 10, 15, 20 years.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now they have to save so much more because they've lost that compounding and that time.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it seems like such a stretch to their budget now to start looking at retirement than it would have when they were, you know, 25 or 30 and starting out with even just like$50 every couple of weeks.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden now it's like, well, in order to make up for all that time, we have to save 10 times that, which is, you know, it can be very overwhelming for people.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then it can become a lot together.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are there some financial benefits, credits, accounts, or strategies that Canadians might not realize they're eligible for that maybe they should start thinking about?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of different accounts and different sort of tax savings avenues that a lot of people don't use, or they use them in a way that doesn't really make sense because they don't really have a lot of education on what the benefits are of those things.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: One of the main, I would say that the biggest misused accounts is the tax free savings account.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most people use it as kind of just like a regular savings.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really, a lot of people don't invest in their tax free savings account.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, they'll put money in there every month, but then they'll take it out every Six months or something like that, which is completely fine.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you're not getting the the major benefit of the tax-free savings account, which is you know the ability to invest short or long term, um, but to really grow the money that's in there and not have to pay tax on any of the money that's that's been earned in there.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're just earning, you know, one and a half percent interest, you're sheltering that from paying taxes.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, could you be looking at a more long-term strategy where you might be making eight, nine, 10% a year and that growth is being sheltered?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people are misusing that, but not using it at all, as well as the RESP, so the registered registered education savings plan.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not a lot of people have them for their kids, or if they have them, they're not utilizing the full contribution room.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it can be hard for people to contribute like the full$2,500 every year for each kid, especially if there's daycare expenses and things like that.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: But when you look at, you know, the automatic rate of return that you're getting from the education savings grant, um the 20% that the government will match every year, up to$500.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then the growth on top of that, the ability to take the money out in the child's hands and the students' hands, which can be almost tax-free if they don't have a lot of income when they are going to school.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of benefits there that I don't think people really understand.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if if they really saw what they could get for contributing to some of those accounts, they probably would, you know, reprioritize where some of their money is going.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the newer account that's out now, the first home savings account for first-time homebuyers, huge, huge impact because you can put money in there, get a tax benefit for it right away.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can take it out when you purchase your first home and you don't have to repay it.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've had we've always had the RSP Home Buyers plan where you can contribute to it, get the tax benefit, and then withdraw it for buying your first home, but you do have to repay it.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: So this first home savings account has really sort of changed the game there, where it doesn't create this cash flow constraint when you do purchase a home and it gives you the ability to to use those funds and and not have to repay it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a really nice uh benefit there.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are not taking advantage of that.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of people have a down payment and they haven't used the first home savings account.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, just talking to people about I didn't know about the first home thing.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I mean.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's new, yeah.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's such a great thing for yeah, first-time home buyers.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it helps a little bit because there's, I mean, the house buying world right now is it can be a lot.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's nice that there's at least some support.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that you mentioned was like investing money, and I think a lot of people maybe don't know what the difference is between saving money and investing money.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, really quick, if some if you needed to kind of differentiate it for folks, what would that look like?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there's a lot of overlap.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, saving and investing come hand in hand.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, you need to take some of the money that you have and and you need to put it somewhere.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and investing is really the sort of the next level of choosing where that money goes.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: So saving can be a little bit more basic in a sense where maybe you're putting money into a bank account where it's earning some interest and that's sort of more basic, and you know that you're setting money aside regularly or you know, in lump sums when you have it available.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Investing is really about strategy and you know, doing something for a specific reason.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: So are you investing money for you know the short or long term?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a tax benefit to why we're doing this?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is the end goal?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we don't have those details about why we're doing this, you know, what your comfort level is with risk, how long you think this money is going to be invested for.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very hard for someone like myself to give advice on what types of investments you should be in.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing is figuring out, you know, what the goal is, then figuring out what type of account to use, and then figuring out what type of investment you use within that account.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where people get a little bit confused about like, oh, I have an RSP.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, yes.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you have an RSP account, but what do you have inside your RSP?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have GICs, which are like guaranteed investment certificates that have a set rate, a set term?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's no risk involved, you know, that kind of thing, or do you have something like a stock portfolio or a mutual fund or an ETF or all of these different types of investments, you know, private lending, all of these things.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a plan for what that money is going to be used for?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are we taking the appropriate amount of risk?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have enough short-term savings where, you know, maybe you don't want that in your RSP because you may need to access this before retirement, which I think is one of the biggest things that Canadians struggle with is that they focus so much on long term that they forget about the short term and having money for a rainy day.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's good.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you hear both, obviously, they're they overlap, but there's yeah, for some things they look at investments in a way, and I mean, you know, guilty here too, but like you can look at investments and then think that there's a really high risk or be really nervous about it because sometimes, depending on the investment you're making, you might see kind of your money fluctuating and moving, and that can be really worrisome for some folks.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that's again why it's so helpful to talk to an expert in the field to figure out like what kind of risk is appropriate for us to take here.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: And also just like normalizing that don't maybe don't look at it all the time because we are doing this as a more long-term investment.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: So looking at it every day isn't going to make you feel better, but you can look at it three years from now and see, oh, there's money's grown, right?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be, yeah, it's good to have somebody like you to kind of normalize, bring people kind of back down and be like, it's okay.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's supposed to happen, the fluctuation.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the world we live in with access to you know, being able to see our balances in real time, it's a blessing and a curse because it's enough to drive you crazy and think, you know, a lot of people try to time the market and they go, oh, well, you know, the market's down right now.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Should I invest a whole lot of money?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or, oh, you know, the market's down, should I get out so that if it goes down even further, then you know, I'm I'm not going to be in in bad shape, things like that.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really important to sit down and figure out what the goal is, but it's important for the advisor to sort of preemptively set the expectation that there will be times in the market that are not positive.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you will see, you know, the value of your portfolio drop at some point if you're in something that has any level of risk.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so clients understand that that is part of the plan and that is expected to happen, that it's not, you know, a surprise when it happens.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there are buying opportunities, but trying to time the market is extremely difficult.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a goal and you you know that these are, you know, these times are gonna happen.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they do happen, when you're investing regularly, you're just buying more units of whatever it is that you're you're investing in at a lower cost.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually when the value goes up, you're gonna be in a better position because you own more of those units, those stocks, those mutual funds, whatever it is that you're buying.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to set the tone and set the expectation and let people know ahead that that's going to happen.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I think a lot of people don't do that.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then clients start to panic and they go, oh my gosh, like it's down 10% or 20%, like I need to get out and I need to stop the bleeding.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the worst thing you can do in those moments, right?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that can really negatively impact your plan if somebody doesn't have you know the right advice or makes that that decision to pull out at a time when they they don't really need the money, they're just worried.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to kind of be aligned with the person you're working with, the advisor to really, you know, figure that out together and make the right calls.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, things are so accessible, like there's so many new little like features on your banking app, and it can be really overwhelming if we don't know what we're looking at or, you know, haven't talked about it with an advisor.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now I want to move into relationships because I think money is one of those things that can become so emotionally challenged, challenging between partners.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's a lot of the time, you know, there's again in my profession, there can be a lot of conflict around finances between a couple.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're fighting and fighting about, you know, maybe an extra$200 that was spent, but it's not always about the$200.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's just there's like a mismatch of communication or understanding around the finance piece.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that can often be missed.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: As we talked about, there's so many different beliefs that we have based on our childhood experiences and how money was discussed around us when we were younger.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: That if you're coming from somebody who has become kind of like this hibernating squirrel, really keeping all of the nuts safe, and then you're, you know, they're partnered up with somebody who maybe is a little bit more, you know, I I never got a chance to spend, so now I'm gonna be able to spend all my money.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: There can be a lot of friction around finances between uh this couple that isn't always communicated as, hey, this is my anxiety.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: So part of my work is to kind of like really understand what that is, but in your line of work, you're you have the money, you have all of the spreadsheets out and everything.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you see money becoming such a difficult topic for couples in your line of work?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's I mean, one of the leading causes of stress in relationships and and reasons why relationships break down is because they're on such different pages financially, um, because there's such different um sort of expectations or priorities or goals around money.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it shocks me how many people don't have the money conversation before they get married, not even in a relationship, but before they fully commit their lives to being with this person and they legally bind themselves to this person and they don't know anything.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they might know what they earn as an income, but a lot of times they don't know about, you know, past issues with debts or things like that.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen couples go into relationships with bankruptcies that they don't know.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: So there can be skeletons in the closet, but there can also be situations where somebody is really financially well off and they're worried about telling their partner about that because they don't want that to change their perception of the spending that they're going to be able to do or how comfortable they are and things like that.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very difficult conversation to navigate sometimes when you're not coming in with similar incomes or similar spending habits or views on how money should be spent or saved or treated.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I see a lot of just out of sight, out of mind.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: One person deals with the finances and the other person just trusts blindly that everything's being taken care of, which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing, but I think there's a lot of people that are so in the dark about what they have.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can sit with a couple and you can pretty quickly see who typically will deal with the finances.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you ask them about, you know, budgets or or income, expenses, things like that, usually there's one person who knows a little bit more.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when they both don't know how much they're earning, how much they're spending, that certainly is is alarming and it happens often enough.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's so much anxiety around even just talking about money.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you have two people coming from two different thoughts on money in terms of spending and saving and and that kind of thing, it can cause so many issues.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been in a lot of uncomfortable conversations and I've started to learn about how to help people through that and how to guide them to talk more about it and to kind of step away and do a little bit of homework where they, you know, they maybe go through a budgeting exercise together.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it goes well and other times it doesn't because all of a sudden these things start to come to light and people are like, what you're spending how much on this?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or hey, we're you know, I thought we were saving more or whatever the case is.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a tough thing to talk about, but it is absolutely crucial, especially if you have children and you want to support them into the future, and you know, you want to make sure that if you're doing things combined that you're you're working towards a similar goal.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I imagine it's difficult.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: I when when I had my episode with Cheryl when we talked about real estate, um we also talked a little bit about how she's kind of a little a little bit of a couple therapist, have kind of like navigating the emotions and what they want to do.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm seeing that in your line as well.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: When people are so heightened around finances, you're kind of having to draw everybody back in to like, okay, here's some homework, here, do this, have these conversations because you're right.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a lot of people enter relationships so hopeful and looking at, you know, the other checklists that they have to go through.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: And finances isn't always one that they talk about.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, in my line of work, I'm seeing like, oh, secret purchases or secret credit cards, and there's so much secrecy around finances.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, whoa, that's you know, that can get messy really quickly.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, there's there's so much there that we can kind of oh yeah, dive into.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: But what would you recommend be maybe like the main conversation um about finances before somebody plans on merging their life together, as you said, legally binding, either moving in together or through marriage?
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it needs to be somewhat general, but also a little bit more granular.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people need to have a general conversation about their thoughts around money, how they grew up, you know, learning about money, because that's obviously going to shape how they feel about it, like we talked about.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: But also, you know, what would you do in this scenario?
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of the the worst case scenario, like how would you react?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if you lost your job, you know, do you have some money set aside so that you could get through three months, six months, a year without having income coming in or waiting until EI kicks in or whatever the case is?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what would happen if you were disabled?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you have disability insurance through work or do you need it personally?
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have life insurance?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like who's the beneficiary?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a pension?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have benefits at work?
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of these things that is going to affect your whole family.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's going to be sort of the basis of how you structure things.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of people who say that, you know, you need to combine your finances when you're getting married.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people who say, you know, it's better to leave things separate so that you can each have your responsibilities.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like it depends on the couple.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen it work really well where they've had things separate and they kind of have their own things that they're responsible for financially.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that if they do have very different thoughts on saving and spending, at least, you know, their main expenses are taken care of.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then they can sort of do their own thing when it comes to how they save or how they spend.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it can be complicated when you're building a life together, especially when you're raising children together to have things separate, because then it becomes, you know, well, I have more saved, or you know, you spend more, or whatever the case is.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: And is this an expense for you or for me?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: And how does that work?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then the different income levels, you know, how does how do you navigate that?
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's the most complicated conversation, but people don't have it, and then they're absolutely shocked when they enter a relationship, and then someone feels so differently about money.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can't assume that someone feels similar to you when it comes to money because there's so many outside influences and then internal sort of thoughts and feelings about it.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: That if you don't have that conversation early on and you don't sort of at least level set in terms of what your feelings are about finances, it can be really difficult.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, something I talk about with my couples is you know, have a conversation around your relationship with finances, not present day what you want to spend and versus, you know, what your partner doesn't want to spend on, but really what was the your relationship with finances as a young kid?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think couples having that conversation with each other gives a little bit more of an understanding as to what their perspective may be now around finances.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just understanding and then moving on with their finances with an advisor like yourself to really talk about like the nitty-gritty part of the finances and working towards their goals and their regular responsibilities.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there can be a lot that's learned from each individual person in a relationship when we look at the financial relationship or the relationship they have with finances.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to each other, sit through the uncomfortableness of having that conversation, but it can be really helpful in terms of future planning.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I think we've touched on so many different areas around finances.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked a little bit about mental health, the shame, the embarrassment that comes with finances, the comparisons that we can sometimes fall into with social media or the people in our lives that maybe were noticing that they're spending a little bit more or saving a little bit more.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we also talked about how you can budget while also still enjoying some of the fun things.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're kind of coming to an end, and we also obviously talked about relationships, but if you have somebody today, one of our listeners, maybe really wondering, like, okay, I know I need to get my finances together, but where the hell do I start?
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is just so much.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: What's the first thing that maybe you tell them to practice this week?
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say just really thinking long and hard about what their relationship is with money and what money makes them feel like, what they grew up with and things like that.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you think there's an opportunity to reprioritize even just a few dollars a week or a large sum of money every month on something that might be more impactful for you, either short term or long term.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just find a way to look at your overall money coming in, money going out, and just see if there's one thing that you think you could adjust to make things a little bit less stressful for you or a little bit more positive when you think about where your money's going.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good place to start for folks.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think one of the biggest takeaways from today's conversation has been like relationship with finances.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's a good one to reflect on and to really think about and kind of go from there.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you so much for all of the information.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have so many more questions.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it would be wonderful to have you come back for a part two.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but where can folks find you if they maybe felt like they resonated with something that you said or really want to maybe start working on their finances a little bit more?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: Where can folks connect with you?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you like using social media, I have um a business page.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me at the wealth beach, so beach with two E's.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or you can Google me.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a website, obviously, through IG Wealth Management, or you can reach out by email, kathleen.beach at IG.ca, and just, you know, let me know that you're looking to have a conversation.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: We can book a quick call or virtual chat just to see, you know, if if we're aligned on working together or if there's anything that I can do to provide you with some guidance.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm more than happy to have a conversation and uh and work through a financial plan with you because the best thing about what I do is being able to give people peace of mind to say, you know, you're in a fine position.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to make a few little tweaks, and then it'll really give you that confidence to feel like you're working towards something that you know feels good for you.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then as things arise through your life, we pivot and we make shifts that you know that work in that moment.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think financial planning is something that's constantly evolving.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's always, you know, different avenues to go, where to invest, you know, what to what to focus on at different seasons of life.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so having somebody to really bounce ideas off of, ask questions to, and somebody who's really gonna take the time to get to know you and who you are as a human being before looking at kind of the balance sheet is really important.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm more than happy to have conversations with anyone who's looking for some guidance.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's so reassuring too.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, just kind of how you work with folks.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's great.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not you're not gonna get in trouble.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's no punishment.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's really how can we work to get you to where you want to be or to reassure you of where you are.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're gonna have all of your information in our show notes.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Kathleen.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so informative.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm gonna go into my bank account, maybe make a couple changes.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: This was so wonderful.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so folks, make sure to follow us on Outside the Therapy Room and make sure to follow Kathleen.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we will see all of you next time.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to round two.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Outside the Therapy Room.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you reside in Ontario and are interested in working with one of our therapists, please visit our website in the show notes.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you reside outside of Ontario, click Google Search or Search for Psychology Today.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'll help you find a therapist near you.