Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / What Level Of Marital "Communication" Is Way Too Fucking Much?

Transcript

What Level Of Marital "Communication" Is Way Too Fucking Much? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today. We are talking about what level
• 0:11
  of marital communication is way too fucking much.
• 0:14
  And the reason I'm talking about this is because a lot of people,
• 0:18
  a lot of couples seem to think that the more you communicate
• 0:21
  the better. And if popular media is telling
• 0:25
  you this, and if even psychologists are telling you
• 0:28
  this, this is not right. Communication is all well and
• 0:32
  good but if you are communicating to a Says, that is
• 0:35
  more harmful than positive and we will discuss that in depth
• 0:39
  soon. Before that though, I will tell
• 0:43
  you to subscribe, subscribe to me everywhere.
• 0:46
  I'm on Tick-Tock I'm on YouTube now, that's just starting but
• 0:50
  certainly subscribe to this podcast because I just had a
• 0:53
  great episode on male biology across the lifespan and that can
• 0:58
  help you understand your husband.
• 0:59
  Or if you are a man, I can help you articulate some things to
• 1:03
  your wife and it also talks about the disparity between male
• 1:08
  and female experiences with aging and why?
• 1:11
  And it's interesting. So, getting to the topic for
• 1:15
  today, so there's something called an emotional check-in,
• 1:18
  and marital counselors will tell you to do it, and I tell people
• 1:20
  to do it. Sometimes it means that once a
• 1:22
  week for like 20 to 30 minutes, you sit down and assess how your
• 1:26
  relationship is doing. That's a good amount of time. 20
• 1:30
  to 30 minutes. One time a week is a good Out of
• 1:35
  time. So now think about what you may
• 1:37
  have. Thought was a good amount of
• 1:38
  time. Now if you're some people you're
• 1:40
  like shit that sounds like a lot.
• 1:42
  If those people don't need to listen to this podcast unless of
• 1:45
  course, they are married to somebody who thinks that three
• 1:48
  to four hours a day is just the tip of the iceberg.
• 1:52
  And I joke a little bit through 24 hours a day, but there are
• 1:55
  many people that get embroiled in multi our arguments and
• 2:00
  because these arguments are not the stuff that they grew up with
• 2:04
  because Listen, you didn't learn to talk this much out of
• 2:06
  nowhere. So, usually people who have the
• 2:09
  multi our discussions about their relationship, grew up
• 2:12
  seeing, multi our arguments about relationship with dishes
• 2:17
  being thrown or crying and recriminations and just dirt
• 2:21
  terribleness. And so, now, if you don't do
• 2:23
  that level of volatility and Chaos, you think that the multi
• 2:27
  our discussions are good. They're not, this is obsessional
• 2:32
  and it is focusing you on The wrong things just on the
• 2:36
  problems in the relationship. They're never going to get
• 2:39
  sussed out by obsessive perseveration.
• 2:42
  They're really not. And so, usually people saw this
• 2:46
  growing up, you're doing the same exact thing except there's
• 2:48
  no plates being thrown. Sometimes people saw the exact
• 2:52
  thing, so they saw parents having multi our discussion
• 2:55
  arguments, you know, and I say discussion because that's what
• 2:58
  the adults say it is. But kids know, it's an argument
• 3:01
  and in the exact same way so it's not any more or less
• 3:03
  dramatic. It's Exactly what you saw.
• 3:05
  And then every so often you have people that never saw their
• 3:08
  parents communicate at all. So then they don't have anything
• 3:11
  to base anything on. So they're like, oh I guess I
• 3:13
  can healthy relationship. Unlike my parents, you do
• 3:16
  communicate for three hours a day about how you feel about
• 3:19
  each other and about any given argument do not do this.
• 3:22
  I mean if you don't have kids, you want to do this yet and
• 3:24
  you're never going to have kids then do it.
• 3:26
  I mean, you know, whatever floats your boat.
• 3:29
  However, and I had a podcast about this, what level of
• 3:32
  marital conflict is too much In front of children and the answer
• 3:36
  is any any real conflict conflict, you know, conflict is
• 3:42
  it's not what the examples are that people give.
• 3:44
  It's like deciding between Chinese and Italian or saying
• 3:48
  out you hurt me when you, you know, hit me by accident with
• 3:53
  that box, you know, I'm sorry that that's not conflict.
• 3:57
  Resolution the, the conflict resolution that your kids can
• 4:00
  see is like at that level like oh like you forgot to Ooh, put
• 4:05
  my my water bottle in the car. And then the guy says, oh well,
• 4:09
  I thought you were going to get it and then the woman says, oh
• 4:12
  well, I thought you were going to get at.
• 4:14
  Well I'll just get it. Yeah, that's some conflict
• 4:16
  resolution for your kids to see, but if it goes like this, if
• 4:20
  it's like you said that you got my water bottle.
• 4:23
  I didn't say I was gonna get your water bottle.
• 4:24
  Will you said you would get my water bottle?
• 4:26
  You literally set it to me. I wish that I had my phone.
• 4:28
  I wish I had my phone to record you sometimes because, you know
• 4:31
  how this is, I think that since your ADHD don't tell me about my
• 4:34
  Ada. Especially not in front of the
• 4:35
  children. I don't even know if I have
• 4:37
  ADHD. What I think is that you told me
• 4:39
  so much stuff to do that? I don't even remember any of it
• 4:42
  now. Of course, I didn't use cursing,
• 4:45
  there is no yelling in this, that's not a discussion, that's
• 4:49
  cool then argument. And that's an argument that the
• 4:52
  children know is going to go on for like the entirety of the car
• 4:56
  ride, whether you're driving across country or whether you're
• 4:59
  driving to your, you know, to dance class or whatever the hell
• 5:02
  you're doing. So these sorts of Discussions.
• 5:05
  And then some people think that they are really cheating the
• 5:08
  system there because they stay so philosophical.
• 5:12
  If it's in front of the kids or the children are in the house.
• 5:14
  Assume every time they were announced, they could hear you.
• 5:17
  They can hear you. If they come upstairs, and they
• 5:20
  listened to your door, or they look at you or whatever.
• 5:22
  And a lot of these people who are doing the discussion stuff,
• 5:25
  they don't even close the door because after all, it's a
• 5:27
  discussion, so it's done in public.
• 5:29
  And then, and it shouldn't be and some people are doing well,
• 5:33
  you know, the reason, That I think that we don't get along on
• 5:37
  this and that topic, your kids don't need to hear that shit,
• 5:39
  why we don't get along on this in this topic.
• 5:41
  And this is the type and the tenor of the conversations that
• 5:46
  people have, now, if you can do. So, let's say, you say, all
• 5:49
  right, well, we don't do any of that.
• 5:50
  For the kids front of the kids, we act nice and normal and then
• 5:53
  after they go to sleep, that's when we have a three-hour
• 5:56
  discussion till 1:00 in the morning about the reasons, based
• 5:59
  in each of our families of origin that we don't get along.
• 6:02
  Okay? Good job.
• 6:03
  No, not Good job. Who can stay up that late?
• 6:06
  I could barely stay up till 9:30.
• 6:08
  You can't stay up that late as an adult and function.
• 6:10
  The next day, you cannot be like, what do you thinks gonna
• 6:14
  happen? How many times have you fallen
• 6:16
  into bed, into each others arms? After a discussion about your
• 6:19
  husband's mother? Being a covert narcissist how
• 6:22
  has this ever ended? Well, it doesn't end.
• 6:25
  Well, that's why. I tell people the discussion
• 6:28
  that we have in couples counseling, 45 minutes or 90
• 6:31
  minutes once a week or every other week that's good.
• 6:34
  You want to do an emotional, check in one emotional, check in
• 6:37
  a week. That's good.
• 6:38
  You don't need to talk about your relationship besides that.
• 6:41
  And if you're doing any fun stuff, like fun, and quotes
• 6:44
  like, listening to my podcast together, God bless you.
• 6:47
  Or you taking a love language quiz, you're doing some shit
• 6:49
  like that then. Okay, do it one more time a
• 6:53
  week, go for it. Unless you're actually talking
• 6:57
  for like, I don't know, 20 to 30 minutes length or no emotional
• 7:00
  check-in just so you could do it every day if it's positive.
• 7:04
  Active. If it's positive, you could do
• 7:06
  it every day. Now what you can do is fake that
• 7:09
  it's positive because like productive.
• 7:11
  So like you telling your husband that is mothers of covert,
• 7:13
  narcissist really is productive. Somehow is going to end up being
• 7:17
  positive. So it's okay.
• 7:19
  That was a three fucking our discussion and it was hardly the
• 7:23
  first time. It's been brought up even this
• 7:24
  month, that is not productive. This is the people I tell get
• 7:28
  your asses in to couples counseling.
• 7:30
  What are you doing to your lives to your sleep, your peace of
• 7:33
  mind to Children that don't go to sleep.
• 7:35
  Quite as early, as you think, it can still hear you talking and
• 7:38
  then don't forget the ones that are talking in front of their
• 7:40
  kids, because they can't stop themselves.
• 7:43
  And I'm not saying I have no empathy.
• 7:45
  I have lots of empathy. If you grew up in a house with
• 7:47
  constant conflict, you are going to be drawn to constant conflict
• 7:51
  and if you moderated into what you call a discussion or
• 7:55
  communication, well then you are you're doing better than your
• 7:59
  parents. You know?
• 8:00
  Who still isn't doing well, though, your kids aren't doing
• 8:03
  well and you you You and your spouse actually aren't doing
• 8:06
  well, you're just maybe not as crazy as your family of origin.
• 8:10
  Good. This is always good.
• 8:11
  Every generation needs to improve, but this constant
• 8:15
  perseveration on the same topics.
• 8:17
  Without getting a third opinion or a safe neutral setting where
• 8:22
  maybe progress can actually be made because there's an
• 8:25
  objective party, because they neither, you are objective.
• 8:28
  Give me a break. I'm who's the objective one in
• 8:31
  the one who's saying. And this is just my example,
• 8:33
  because it's so, Oh, your mother's a covert narcissist.
• 8:36
  And that's why you don't know how to express.
• 8:37
  Emotion my mother isn't a covert narcissus.
• 8:39
  What I think happened is that you and your mother are pretty
• 8:42
  crazy. No.
• 8:43
  So this this this is not helpful communication.
• 8:45
  It's also not by the way helpful communication.
• 8:47
  If your husband has learned not to open his mouth or your wife
• 8:51
  in the alternate, but I don't see a lot of guys ranting and
• 8:53
  raving about psychology, maybe that'll be in the new
• 8:56
  enlightened era, but guys, rant and Rave about other sorts of
• 9:00
  things. You could go back to my men with
• 9:02
  control issues podcast. But but it's usually the women
• 9:05
  that are starting the conversations about these
• 9:08
  psychological topics and then even if your husband doesn't
• 9:11
  open his mouth up once if it goes on for more than 20 to 30
• 9:14
  minutes, it's too much. It's really is too much.
• 9:17
  Now there could be exceptions maybe you go out to date night
• 9:21
  and you decide that you really want to talk about how much you
• 9:23
  love each other. Oh, this is wonderful.
• 9:26
  You know what? I talk about how much you love
• 9:27
  each other, save it. Wait till you get home and talk
• 9:29
  in front of the kids about how much you love each other.
• 9:31
  At least the, you know, the pg-rated But if it's anything
• 9:36
  but seeing how grateful you are to one another, how much you
• 9:39
  appreciate each other? How much you love each other?
• 9:41
  Don't do it. Now listen, this is a very good
• 9:43
  test here. You know, how godman the marital
• 9:45
  researcher that you've probably heard of for my other podcast.
• 9:50
  He says that you need. I forget it's either 5 or
• 9:53
  possibly been seven. In order to be healthy, it has
• 9:56
  to be five to seven. This even say five, let's be
• 9:59
  conservative five, positive remarks for every negative
• 10:03
  remark to maintain, Health in a relationship.
• 10:06
  So I tell you this, if you are going to have think about it
• 10:10
  because it's funny for many people that are embroiled in
• 10:14
  marital conflict, whether that is simmering low level or high
• 10:17
  level, if you're going to have even one conversation that's
• 10:22
  about why we don't see eye-to-eye on this rooted in our
• 10:27
  individual families and yours being worse than mine or you are
• 10:32
  untreated mental disorders. That Difficult for me and the
• 10:35
  kids to live with or whatever the fuck it is.
• 10:37
  You got to have five conversations in front of the
• 10:41
  kids about how much you appreciate each other how much
• 10:44
  you love each other and how grateful you are for one
• 10:46
  another. Now if you can do that then I
• 10:48
  give you your your, your your complete permission to have your
• 10:53
  strange. I really don't because it's bad
• 10:55
  for the children to hear it but but think about how silly it is
• 10:58
  if you kids never hear this shit like it was.
• 11:00
  So so rarely will they hear like a 20 to 30 minutes discussion
• 11:05
  where the parents are like, no, you know what?
• 11:07
  I really like about you, you know, you are just so
• 11:10
  supportive, you know what? I know, I what I really like
• 11:12
  about you though is, you are just so intelligent, please,
• 11:17
  maybe, maybe sometimes like the kids, like for couples that are
• 11:21
  in Conflict, the mother will turn to the kids and be like why
• 11:24
  don't you think Daddy for riding your bikes with you this
• 11:26
  afternoon? You know, he didn't work like he
• 11:29
  usually does, right? I'd be like that's the level
• 11:33
  that we're talking about about pie.
• 11:34
  Sort of stuff. So, if you want to do any
• 11:36
  negative stuff, your answers to do, five times as much positive
• 11:41
  stuff. If you did that alone, by the
• 11:42
  way, your marriage would improve.
• 11:44
  Like not the one that I just made fun of.
• 11:45
  But, wow, guys, you have such a great dad, like he rode bikes
• 11:49
  with you. This afternoon that super fun.
• 11:51
  You're really lucky. I wish that I would have, you
• 11:53
  know, been able to ride bikes with my dad, but he didn't ride
• 11:56
  bikes because he was a fucking asshole, but you don't have to
• 11:59
  go into that part. But either way, the way that you
• 12:02
  could tell your children that the other partner is Is making
• 12:05
  their life good and is in fact healing even some of your Old
• 12:10
  Wounds as a child. I mean, people never say this
• 12:12
  sort of shit like deep stuff that their kids could actually
• 12:16
  learn from, you know, like, oh Mommy, Pig Daddy because like
• 12:19
  he's so stably. So reliable responsible, he's an
• 12:22
  admirable guy, real stand-up, man.
• 12:25
  I grew up in a house that was very chaotic.
• 12:28
  There is like just I really sometimes was not even knowing
• 12:33
  what I would be able to afford to Do sometimes our bills
• 12:36
  weren't paid. So your father he is a man that
• 12:38
  I could never, I could never see anything bad happening to us.
• 12:42
  That would be the sort of thing that's a psychologic minded
• 12:45
  conversation. But is positive and people,
• 12:47
  really often do not say things like that but instead, they will
• 12:51
  let the children over here them saying things like, you know,
• 12:54
  why I picked you? I think because I had really low
• 12:57
  self-esteem in college. Like, come on, Jesus Christ.
• 13:01
  Stop, you know, and so at all. Or they were, the kids will be
• 13:05
  in bed and then the conversation will be just that, but it'll be
• 13:08
  like three hours of it all the iterations of why your
• 13:11
  self-esteem was so low in college that you picked him.
• 13:13
  Come on. Do you really think this is
• 13:15
  useful? It Isn't So to the couples that
• 13:17
  recognize themselves even a little bit, even a hair in what
• 13:21
  I'm describing, couples counseling can help you.
• 13:25
  It can give you a place to say all of your shit and then you
• 13:30
  delineate it. So this is the place where we
• 13:32
  say all these things to each other and the Sometime we really
• 13:36
  focus on not perseverating on our marital dysfunction audibly
• 13:41
  and instead self-soothing, and other mechanisms.
• 13:44
  And the reason I say with other mechanisms and the reason I say
• 13:46
  self-soothing is for many couples, it's become like a
• 13:49
  nervous. Tic, like they have to talk
• 13:52
  about the relationship. They feel a lot of pressure to
• 13:54
  dissect the relationship. They feel pressure to argue,
• 13:57
  they feel pressure to say that they're right, they feel
• 13:59
  pressure to point out what what went wrong in the day and their
• 14:01
  interaction. And they feel like as if they
• 14:04
  Don't then something bad will happen.
• 14:06
  They fit. It's an anxiety.
• 14:08
  It really becomes this level of anxiety when you are unable to
• 14:13
  verbally. Communicate, and you got to
• 14:15
  think about why and if it's because you deeply feel that
• 14:18
  your needs are not going to get met.
• 14:20
  Your needs are not getting met. Now, they're not getting met now
• 14:23
  and I had yet to ever see somebody who can through Myriad.
• 14:29
  Late-night browbeating conversations.
• 14:32
  Convince somebody to meet their needs.
• 14:33
  It's just doesn't happen. If you even remotely recognize
• 14:36
  yourself in these descriptions, then it's probably time to start
• 14:41
  couples counseling. And or if your partner did won't
• 14:45
  go to start individual counseling because there is
• 14:47
  something some anxiety. Some, some fear that it has
• 14:53
  happening that is allowing you to waste.
• 14:56
  The one life that you get to suck it up with hours upon hours
• 15:01
  of - conversation that you convinced yourself.
• 15:04
  If will end up productive but somehow, it never does.
• 15:09
  And if it's even remotely ever in front of the children, you
• 15:13
  heard it here first that, this is just plain out.
• 15:15
  Bat the level of conflict resolution that we are talking
• 15:18
  about. That is good.
• 15:19
  For kids is really calm, really practical sorts of things.
• 15:25
  Even even, you know, I'll even give you like you hurt my
• 15:28
  feelings, when you didn't get my thing of cereal.
• 15:31
  My brand of cereal at the store. Oh honey.
• 15:34
  I'm Sorry like that, that that's like conflict resolution.
• 15:37
  I'm sorry, honey, I forgot it. If it's like, well, maybe your
• 15:42
  ass you get up and go to the grocery store.
• 15:44
  There is no benefit of your kids here, and it ever, ever, ever
• 15:48
  ever. You can ask any of us children
• 15:50
  that ever heard anything like this shit growing up.
• 15:52
  Does it ever help you? It never does.
• 15:54
  It's not conflict resolution, just because eventually both
• 15:57
  partners are too exhausted to continue fighting.
• 15:59
  That is not conflict. Resolution conflict resolution
• 16:02
  is you hurt my feelings? Oh well.
• 16:04
  Sorry, Honey, I didn't mean to. That's the kind of conflict
• 16:06
  resolution. You could do it for a new kids,
• 16:08
  okay? So hopefully this resonated
• 16:10
  hopefully somebody Somewhere Out In The Ether, will start marital
• 16:16
  counseling because they uncomfortably recognize that
• 16:19
  this hit a little close to home and then my work is done and
• 16:23
  I'll talk to you soon. Bye bye.