Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / The Truth About How People Disappear (Not What You Think) | Where are Nancy Guthrie & Amy Hillyard?

Transcript

The Truth About How People Disappear (Not What You Think) | Where are Nancy Guthrie & Amy Hillyard? · True Crime with Gavin Fish

0:02
So we've got two women who are missing, and on the surface they
0:10
look completely different, right?
0:12
One of them octogenarian grandma in her bed when at least one
0:19
terrible person but I think multiple people come in the
0:22
middle of the night, take her from her bed.
0:26
The other 52 year old successful business owner in the Bay Area
0:30
of Northern California who it appears now may have just walked
0:35
out of her life. 2 very, very different cases, but both of
0:43
them kind of lead me to the same question, which is how in this
0:51
day and age, here we are in 2026, how does one just
0:56
disappear? And I'm not, I'm not talking in
0:59
theory, I'm not talking in the movies, I'm not talk.
1:01
I'm talking like in real life, in real neighborhoods around
1:06
other people. How do people just up and
1:12
disappear? And of course, these cases are,
1:16
well, they look completely different on the surface, right?
1:20
But they lead me to the same question I've been asking over
1:24
and over again. How does somebody just
1:28
disappear? So we're going to get into that
1:31
and a lot of other news that happened in the world of true
1:34
crime. Hope you stick with me.
1:49
This video contains mature themes and discussions intended
1:52
only for adult audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
1:58
Hello there, my friend. Welcome back to another true
2:01
crime conversation with me, Gavin Fish.
2:04
I am so glad you're here. I'm so glad you came back.
2:07
And if if you're new, I'm glad you're here.
2:09
For the first time, I I'm let's play the GLAAD game.
2:13
I'm Pollyanna today. For those of you who are at
2:16
least my age, thanks for being here.
2:21
Thanks for tuning in. Wherever you're tuning in from,
2:24
be sure to tell me where you're watching from or listening.
2:29
You know, because Gavin and Javi Wanda, we are not just a single
2:34
platform show, right? Yes, it's true.
2:38
We live stream on YouTube, but we upload to Spotify as well and
2:43
you can watch the video on Spotify.
2:45
Our viewers can watch in there and you can listen wherever you
2:49
get podcasts. And those of you who are Spotify
2:54
viewers, man, does that help me so much.
2:58
And I'm just going to, I'll, I'll lay it out for you.
3:01
Spotify pays so much more than you too.
3:05
So if you're in the Rewatch crew and you have a Spotify account,
3:07
please go over to Spotify to watch and listen.
3:12
There's always a link in the description here on YouTube.
3:15
I invite you to do that. OK, quick recap quickly,
3:20
quickly. OK, push the right buttons.
3:24
Hobby knows the right buttons to push, but I've got pretty good
3:27
at practice. OK, this is Nancy Guthrie that
3:29
you're seeing on your screen right now.
3:31
Nancy's 84 years old. Nancy went to dinner at family
3:37
members, a family member's home, her daughter's home, son in
3:41
law's home. She was there with her children,
3:44
her grandchildren, and they dropped her off at her Catalina
3:48
Foothills area of Tucson home on the night of January 31st.
3:53
On Sunday, February 1st, she was supposed to be at church.
3:57
She was an avid, an active member of her congregation and
4:02
didn't show up. That was a red flag.
4:05
They called the family. The family checked in on her.
4:08
She was nowhere to be found. We found out later that she was
4:13
abducted. People came to her door, took
4:17
her out of her home, took her out of her bed, spilled her
4:20
blood on the ground and she's not been seen or heard from
4:25
since. It has been coming up on 2 1/2
4:29
months. That is a sad, sad case.
4:35
Now, this case, this is Amy Hilliard.
4:40
Amy Hilliard is a business owner.
4:43
She owns a small chain of coffee shops in the Bay Area of
4:46
Northern California, one in San Francisco, one in Oakland.
4:51
And on the 25th of March, if my memory serves, I'm going to
4:56
bring this up. Yeah, the 25th of March, she was
4:59
last seen walking near her house on the 500 block of Radnor Rd.
5:04
in Oakland, CA, wearing a white short sleeve shirt, light jeans,
5:09
white sneakers with black stripes.
5:12
And she was then seen in the area of Diamond Park a couple
5:15
hours later up in the the Oakland hills.
5:20
And then beyond that, we know nothing.
5:23
She's gone now. There is a little bit of an
5:28
update, there is a bit of an update that I want to bring you.
5:33
Let me let me do it here courtesy of the San Francisco
5:37
Chronicle and then we will get into what I've really prepared
5:41
for you guys. But this is important and this
5:44
is germane to the conversation that we are going to have.
5:48
This written by David Hernandez in The Chronicle.
5:52
Husband of missing Oakland coffee shop owner, reveals new
5:55
details. And here's a new picture of Amy,
5:58
52 years old, blonde, Hazel eyes, about 5 foot.
6:03
What is it? 5 foot four year, 5 foot four
6:06
year, 5 foot, 4 inches tall. About £120.
6:10
If you've seen her, call 510-238-3641.
6:16
OK Amy Hilliard, the beloved owner of a Bay Area coffee shop,
6:19
was working through mental health challenges when she
6:22
vanished last month, her husband said Thursday, but he remained
6:25
hopeful that she would return home.
6:28
Quote We won't stop searching for Amy until we have answers,
6:32
her husband, Chris Hilliard, said in an exclusive interview
6:35
with The Chronicle. Continuing the quote we We
6:38
believe she's still alive. When she disappeared, he said
6:42
she was recovering from depression and anxiety stemming
6:46
from the death of a close friend, close friend and one of
6:50
the family's dogs, as well as extensive caretaking of close
6:55
relatives. Yeah, I'll continue.
7:03
Amy Hilliard's March 25 disappearance shocked the Bay
7:06
Area, and family, friends and law enforcement agencies have
7:09
been searching for her since then.
7:11
The Oakland couple Co own Farley's Coffee, which has a
7:14
location in Oakland and another in San Francisco.
7:18
The mother of two is also known for her community service.
7:21
She serves as the board president of the Piedmont East
7:24
Bay Children's Choir, according to its website.
7:27
Quote At this time, there's no evidence to suggest foul play,
7:30
the Oakland Police Department said in a statement, Continuing
7:33
the quote, at present, there is no evidence of abduction,
7:36
kidnapping or any crime associated with her
7:39
disappearance. On the day she disappeared,
7:42
Chris Hilliard said he and his wife had breakfast together at
7:45
home before he dropped her off at a Bart station near their
7:48
Oakland home. She was headed to a therapy
7:50
appointment in Walnut Creek. Walnut Creek is over the hill
7:56
from from Oakland over the hills.
8:00
She texted him around 1:40 PM to say she was home and her credit
8:04
card was charged for the Bart trips to and from Walnut Creek,
8:08
her husband said. About 5 minutes after arriving
8:10
home, she took their dog for a walk, talked to a neighbor on
8:13
her way back side and Chris Hilliard said, citing
8:17
surveillance footage from neighboring home.
8:20
When he returned home around 3:15 PM, the back door was open.
8:25
Chris Hilliard said his wife's belongings were on the kitchen
8:28
counter, including her car keys, cell phone, wallet and handbag.
8:32
Surveillance video later showed Amy Hilliard in the area of
8:35
Diamond Park, located at the base of Diamond Canyon and it's
8:38
hiking trails, around 4:30 PM the day she disappeared, Oakland
8:42
police said. The agency did not provide
8:44
further details. OK.
8:46
And this last one, I just want to.
8:48
In the past few months, Amy Hilliard was dealing with a lot
8:52
of loss and intense feelings of sadness related to the death of
8:55
a close family friend, Chris Hilliard said, as well as
8:58
intensive caretaking of close relatives and the loss of one of
9:00
their dogs. Amy prides herself on being
9:03
there for others, taking care of others, and all of these
9:06
stressors took their toll, he said.
9:09
Overwhelmed, Amy turned to a professional and was prescribed
9:11
medication for depression and anxiety, he said.
9:14
His wife, he said, was working on recovering and doing all the
9:18
right things to heal when she went missing.
9:22
OK, so that that's all new information.
9:26
This article is LinkedIn. The description of this live
9:32
stream, it'll be on Spotify too, if you want to read the entire
9:37
thing along with all of the links from articles that we're
9:41
going to read today. But this reinforces the
9:47
difference, right? The difference between Amy
9:51
Hilliard come on my, my stream deck doesn't want to work there
9:59
we go Amy Hilliard who no judgement by the way, she's
10:05
doing all the right things according to her husband, right?
10:08
She was dealing with profound loss.
10:10
So I, I mean, I, I, I feel for and she, it appears, at least
10:18
from what I'm reading, that she just walked away from her life.
10:24
That is a very different situation from Nancy Guthrie,
10:28
who was taken in the night, Right.
10:33
But the common thread between the two cases is that even
10:40
though we have surveillance footage, we have GPS tracking,
10:46
we have digital forensics, we have all of this amazing
10:52
technology that helps law enforcement and 1st responders
10:58
and investigators find, you know, and track down missing
11:05
people. They still in today, in today's
11:11
technologically advanced world, can just disappear.
11:17
They can just disappear. And how does that happen?
11:20
How does that happen? We're going to get into it
11:22
first. I asked you to tell me where
11:25
you're tuning in from. Let's see where you are.
11:29
Let me let me just refresh my screen over here.
11:33
What do we have? What do we have we got?
11:38
Oh, Guthrie is misspelled in the title.
11:41
Gavin, you know what you are a professional.
11:45
How how did you do that? Let's.
11:48
Oh, I sure did. I did it with AY instead of an
11:51
IE and now it's 1 character too long.
11:54
That's OK, we can use an ampersand.
11:56
Thank you for letting me know about that.
11:59
What else do we have? Mooney says great blue shirt.
12:02
Yes, I do love the humble button up Oxford shirt.
12:07
I I like it. Thank you very much.
12:10
Autumn says everyone has cameras until you need them.
12:13
Seems like it. Teresa's checking in from
12:15
Oregon, Michelle from Pennsylvania.
12:18
We've got Nitro Racer from Raleigh, NC Jules and me also
12:23
thinks that I look good in this blue shirt.
12:25
Thank you very much. Appreciate that.
12:27
Debbie is checking in from Ohio. Cindy is checking in from the
12:32
Lone Star. Part of the Arc Latex.
12:37
I love it, I love it. Indian Springs, Maryland is with
12:42
us. Newcastle, Australia.
12:43
Thank you very much for being here.
12:45
I appreciate that. Cooler by the Lake says
12:49
unfortunately people don't pay attention to what's happening
12:51
around them, walk around with their noses and their phones.
12:55
That is a terrific observation. I think I am guilty of that
13:00
myself sometimes. I mean, you know, I went to a
13:04
media conference yesterday in my day job and it had to do with
13:08
construction that's happening here in western Pennsylvania.
13:12
It was a PennDOT thing. And one of the guys was like,
13:16
hey, pedestrians, It's not just the drivers that need to be
13:20
safe. Pedestrians, you know, put your
13:23
phone away, take your earbuds out of your ears.
13:26
And I, and I went, I am an earbud Walker.
13:30
That's, that's who I am. So, yeah, I and we're going to
13:33
get into, you know, paying attention.
13:36
We're going to get into that. Thank you very much for bringing
13:38
that up. Emmy is going to be in Death
13:43
Valley tomorrow. That it that is the favorite
13:46
spot of my photography teacher, Mr. T, who was constantly going
13:51
to Death Valley. He loved it.
13:55
What do we got? Dee Lander says.
13:57
Such a fan here. You are amazing.
13:59
Thank you. Your voice is soothing and your
14:01
Curiosity match is mine. Currently in New York, but 4th
14:04
generation native of California. East Bay.
14:07
All right, awesome. So you know the area very, very
14:10
well. Casey Daking checking in from
14:14
the train station. Glad you are here.
14:16
Thank you very much for being here.
14:20
Robin says. It's crazy because I've lived in
14:22
Walnut Creek and ridden Bart Small world.
14:24
Yes, Walnut Creek's a beautiful area.
14:27
So, so were the Oakland hills. El Sobrante.
14:33
OK, got man. Oh, Debbie, Debbie, Debbie.
14:39
I did go to the post office last night with my snuggly bear, my
14:44
sweetie pie, my one and only. And thank you very, very much
14:47
for the big deal pocket knife. I should have.
14:51
I should have had it with me to show you everybody on.
14:54
It's a cute little Swiss army knife that's green that says big
14:59
deal with a personal note. Thank you very much.
15:02
I appreciate that. Manitoba's here.
15:05
San Jose is here. Fredericksburg, VA is here.
15:08
Thank you so much. Canon City, Co.
15:12
The cheese state is here. Who?
15:16
OK, guys, I, I, I have to stop, but thank you very much for
15:19
checking in. I appreciate that.
15:22
OK, back to the question at hand.
15:25
I did. I went back, You know, last
15:28
night's live stream was fun for me because I was falling.
15:32
I had a hard day yesterday. I I was angry.
15:36
I was angry at the kind of people who might who do
15:44
victimize people who are already victimized, like the Guthrie
15:49
family, right, that are just they victimize them by sending
15:56
in ransom notes and and saying that they it was just disgusting
16:01
and I was upset about it and it was it was healing for me to do
16:07
a little bit of research. And so today as I was thinking
16:10
about Nancy Guthrie a little more, I want to know where she
16:13
is. And I got to thinking, well, Amy
16:15
Hilliard is missing too. And these are only just two
16:18
women out of many, many, many, many, many hundreds of thousands
16:23
of women, girls, men and boys who are who are just vanished.
16:30
I did see an article who a few days ago about a young woman who
16:40
disappeared in the 90s and is alive and well and said I, I was
16:46
never, I was never missing. I knew where I was the whole
16:49
time. So that was good news.
16:52
But yeah, for 30 years, people have no idea where she is.
16:55
Right. OK, so I did some research.
16:59
I dug in a little bit. I've got my notes up here on the
17:02
screen. I I want to go through it a
17:05
little bit. We're going to start with
17:07
routine activity theory. This is something that is, is
17:13
something that I think we all intuitively understand.
17:17
Sometimes, sometimes my wife will go on walks and one of the
17:21
things that I will tell her is switch up your, your walking
17:26
path, right? Switch up where you're going,
17:30
what streets you're going to be on the time of day, all that.
17:32
Just switch it up because intuitively I go, what about
17:36
people who are watching? So in the 1970s, a couple of
17:42
criminologist that we talked about last night, Lawrence Cohen
17:45
and Marcus Felsen, developed this theory called routine
17:49
activity theory that fundamentally changed the way,
17:53
and this is germane to our conversation.
17:55
We're, we're going to go the long way around.
17:57
But anyway, it changed the way that experts viewed crime
18:05
instead of focusing on who the offenders were and, and think of
18:11
the timing on this. The 1970s, right?
18:13
The 1960s and 1970s we have in the United States, we have a
18:19
huge explosion of serial killer activity.
18:24
I think it's tied directly to the Interstate system that was
18:27
kind of finished up in the late 70s where people could, you
18:32
know, criminals, killers could get in and out of a, a place
18:36
very quickly for the very first time.
18:38
And so it, it was the, the perfect environment for that to
18:43
happen. So a criminologist, researcher,
18:47
researchers are going what the devil is going on?
18:50
And this routine activity theory by Cohen and Felson, they, they
18:56
stopped focusing on who the offenders are that would drive
18:59
them to offend and instead looked at when and where crime
19:02
happens. And so they found, as we said
19:06
last night, that three things have to come together in order
19:08
for crime to happen #1 is a motivated, I'm sorry, a
19:13
motivated offender, somebody who's like, yeah, I'm down,
19:16
we're going to do this #2A suitable target, right?
19:22
And #3 what they called the absence of a capable guardian,
19:28
meaning, I mean, if if a victim is a child, for example, that
19:33
would be literal the absence of a capable guardian.
19:38
But it also could mean that, you know, there's no one there to
19:43
notice, no one there to intervene, no one there to stop
19:47
what's happening. So these three things, according
19:52
to, again, Felson and Cohen, have to exist in order for this
19:57
theory to work. So what this tells us is the
20:01
crime, you know, including disappearances actually don't
20:09
really require elaborate planning like we see in the
20:12
movies, right? It it doesn't require usually, I
20:17
mean sometimes it can this like extraordinary skill, this team
20:23
of, you know, Danny Ocean style, you know, criminals.
20:29
To to pull off crimes, it just requires those three elements to
20:38
align even briefly and sometimes, like we're talking
20:42
about seconds, we're talking about just brief moments, not
20:47
not hours, for example. OK, so again, 3 components.
20:51
A person who's willing to do a nefarious deed, a vulnerable
20:56
target and nobody there to stop it.
20:59
So the, I guess instead of just asking what happened to, you
21:10
know, Nancy Guthrie or what happened to Amy Hilliard, I, I,
21:15
I'm really hoping that we can ask a deeper question and maybe
21:18
find it while we're discussing it.
21:24
The, the question is what actually has to go right in
21:29
order for somebody to just disappear?
21:35
Because I think if we understand that, then well, we can prevent
21:42
ourselves and our loved ones from being victims.
21:45
And by the way, I think I should pause on this real quick
21:48
because, you know, we're talking about the 70s, Felson and Cohen,
21:55
we are much safer now than we were in the 70s.
22:01
I'm talking societally speaking, right?
22:05
It was a very dangerous world in comparison to the way it is now.
22:10
So I don't want to make us all feel worried that, you know,
22:15
there are criminals just waiting for the right opportunities all
22:18
around us. We, we just need to understand
22:24
that what? Well, we need, we need to be
22:28
aware, right? So, OK, so let's break down this
22:34
framework, right? Oh, there was another thing I
22:37
jotted down. It doesn't take a mastermind.
22:39
It just takes the right moment, right?
22:41
It takes those three things to come together.
22:44
The opportunity, the victim, nobody there to see it.
22:48
Those three things need to come together in a moment.
22:52
OK, so routine activity theory tells us when a crime can
22:57
happen, but but there's another theory that actually tells us
23:04
how it breaks down or, or how it how it plays out.
23:09
And that is called rational choice theory.
23:13
This comes from a couple of researchers, criminologists in
23:19
the 1980s named Derek Cornish and Ronald V Clark.
23:24
It focuses on how offenders make decisions rather than who they
23:29
are, right? And you can see a theme here.
23:32
You can see a theme with with Felson and Cohen, They're like,
23:36
you know, rather than focusing on who offenders are, when and
23:40
where do crimes happen. And then later on with Clark and
23:44
Cornish, they're saying rather than looking at who offenders
23:46
are, let's let's think about how their decision making matrix
23:53
works. Right.
23:56
So the theory, rational choice theory suggests that people who
24:01
commit crimes aren't always acting impulsively, but are
24:06
making calculated choices based on perceived risks and rewards.
24:11
And this aligns. I mean, if I can kind of pat
24:13
myself on the back, it's not me crying out loud.
24:15
Gavin, Javi, if Wanda, do you have a wah wah?
24:19
Now that would be Javi question. You have a wah wah sound.
24:22
That was dumb. It's not me, but I bring up this
24:28
all the time. Ever since I read Freakonomics,
24:30
I'm always, always, always interested in the dynamics of
24:35
incentives, right? What incentives exist that cause
24:40
humans to behave one way or another?
24:44
And sometimes we call them disincentives, but really
24:46
they're positive incentives or negative incentives, right?
24:49
And that's what the rational choice theory is looking at.
24:52
They're going why or, or what are the rational choices that
25:00
criminals are making based on their perceived risk and reward
25:04
or positive and negative incentives?
25:08
So they consider factors like how likely are they to be seen?
25:12
How quickly can they act, and what can they stand to gain
25:16
versus what might happen if they're caught.
25:18
It doesn't mean that offenders are perfectly like rational or
25:24
that they even think everything through like we see in the
25:27
movies, right? Mark Wahlberg getting the right
25:30
cars with the right engine, with the right suspension, the
25:34
computer guy that can check to see where things are going.
25:37
And you know, yeah, it it's not like it's not like that
25:41
typically. And and all of this decision
25:46
making can decision making can happen in a moment.
25:50
So it doesn't mean that they think everything through in
25:55
detail, but it often does mean that their crimes are the result
26:00
of a decision making process. And so in the context of
26:04
disappearances like Nancy's and like Amy's, this helps explain
26:13
why certain moments are chosen right.
26:17
And and it could be that the moment is chosen by, if it were
26:23
a crime, the person who we would call the victim, right?
26:28
Or like, like Amy or the an actual victim of a crime, right?
26:34
They, they, it, it does explain why those moments are chosen.
26:43
Yeah. Because they they offer the
26:45
lowest Rick and risk and the highest chance of success.
26:48
In the case of Nancy Guthrie, middle of the night in a dark
26:51
neighborhood. In the case of Amy Hilliard,
26:55
middle of the afternoon, husband not home, dog is already walked,
27:00
right? People see her doing these
27:02
activities all the time. It's like broad daylight.
27:07
That is a result of a decision making process, a rational
27:13
decision making process. So rational choice theory says
27:19
offenders make decisions, Not perfect ones, but decisions
27:22
based on risk and reward. They ask questions like, is
27:25
anyone watching? How quickly can I act?
27:30
How likely am I to get caught? So even when something might
27:34
look random, it often isn't. And, you know, it's somebody
27:40
choosing the moment when there is the lowest risk.
27:44
So disappearances like Nancy's, like Amy's, don't just happen.
27:49
They are chosen. OK, so we've talked about
27:54
routine activity. We've talked about rational
27:57
choice. Now now comes into now we need
28:04
to add in another theory into the equation called
28:06
environmental criminology. This gets complex man, but fun.
28:11
Before we get into that though, let's see what you guys are
28:13
saying over here. I feel like I am just talkie
28:15
talkie, talkie talkie. What do we have here?
28:19
Just Ducky is getting us started with the Super chat.
28:21
Thank you very much. Just Ducky.
28:23
I deeply, deeply appreciate that.
28:27
Thanks for getting the party started.
28:28
And Sharky Sharona says says I love being part of the fish
28:32
tank. Thank you so much, Sharky.
28:35
I deeply appreciate your support.
28:37
Thank you very much. Yeah.
28:41
Elizabeth Mcmasters, Esquire. McMaster, Esquire, says Gavin.
28:45
For one, we no longer hitchhike. That is true.
28:48
That is true. Cooler by the lake.
28:51
Situational awareness is so important.
28:54
It is. It is indeed.
28:57
Debbie says the past two lives have been extremely informative
29:01
and interesting on the criminal mind.
29:02
Thank you for the deep dive. Well, I am glad to do it.
29:07
Glad. Glad to do it.
29:09
See if there's anything else that I missed.
29:12
Guys taking care of me. Debbie, you're.
29:19
This was before we talked about. You're driving me nuts.
29:22
Not picking up. You think you got it?
29:23
I picked it up. It was great, so great.
29:26
I have it down in the kitchen. It's actually in our little
29:29
silverware drawer because it's a useful gift.
29:32
Thank you very much. Oh, let's see, one more super
29:35
chat came in. Thank you very much for Diddly
29:37
Squat says I'm at least your age, not old.
29:41
We're just mature as we experience life.
29:43
Hi, Gavin, I've missed your live streams this week.
29:45
Just here to say I appreciate you.
29:47
Thank you for showing that appreciation and expressing it.
29:50
And I appreciate you too. Just on a bit of a tangent,
29:55
We're we're going to have to, we're going to have to do a
29:57
tangent, OK. As I am getting older, more
30:06
mature, as diddly Squat would say.
30:09
Kimberly and I, my snuggly bear, my sweetie pie, my one and only,
30:14
we are getting ready to purchase a car.
30:19
Probably not a new car, probably 1.
30:21
You know, that's a year or two old, something like that, new to
30:24
us, right? But I think I've reached the age
30:31
where Buicks are tempting. I think a Buick is tempting me,
30:38
though. Everywhere I drive, I'm seeing
30:40
these Buicks and I'm going, man, that's a good looking
30:44
automobile. And is this what my grandfather
30:48
felt? Is this what Kimberly's
30:50
grandparents, who always drove Buicks felt like?
30:55
I, I, I, I think I've, I've passed the threshold of a very
31:00
important stage of my life. And that stage is whether I do
31:06
or do not like Buicks. And I think I like Buicks.
31:14
OK. Thank you very much.
31:15
Diddly squat for taking care of me.
31:17
You guys are the best. See if there's anything else
31:20
that came in. OK, we're good.
31:24
We are good. All right, let me get back over
31:26
to my notes. All right, so environmental
31:29
criminology. OK, so again, this is a branch
31:34
of criminology that developed in the 1970s and 80s.
31:39
Seems like this was a a section of time where, Oh my, there was
31:45
just so much research going on. Paul and Patricia Brantingham
31:50
were were I I guess are pretty well known for this part of
31:57
criminology, but they're certainly not the only ones.
32:01
This theory focuses on how crime is shaped by everyday
32:06
environments, right? So where you are movement
32:13
patterns, the spaces people occupy, and then when you
32:18
combine environmental criminology with the routine
32:22
activity theory from Cone and Felson, A clearer picture
32:27
actually begins to emerge. Crime doesn't just depend on
32:30
people, right? It doesn't it it?
32:36
Nor does it just depend on where and when.
32:41
I'm, I'm sorry, when, right. It doesn't depend on people.
32:45
It doesn't depend on timing. It also depends on where place.
32:53
OK, so environmental criminology shows that offenders and victims
32:56
move through predictive activity spaces.
33:00
Like we like our homes, right? Our work, our travel routines.
33:05
My goodness, as I start to think about this, you know, my first
33:08
real job, my first like career defining job, which I've shared
33:13
with you guys before, was when I worked for Packard Bell NEC.
33:17
In the beginning I was like a customer service agent with my
33:20
little headphones, looking at the guy across the sea of
33:24
cubicles that had the cooler headphone than me.
33:27
But it didn't take me long before I worked my way up and I
33:31
had a career style job. They were training me, teaching
33:34
me, you know, different things. They were having me travel.
33:39
My goodness, I was going. I, I had a routine that was so
33:43
predictable every day, get up at the exact same time, get dressed
33:48
in similar clothing, get into the exact same car, take the
33:51
exact same route to work, spend the exact same amount of time at
33:56
work and then do it in reverse and then go.
34:00
It was usually I go play tennis, right?
34:03
Or I go meet up with friends or I go on a date, right?
34:08
It was just so entirely predictable.
34:10
And I think that if you think about your life, your life is
34:13
probably pretty darn predictable too, as mine is now, right?
34:17
As I go through the, my memory of my stages of life, the way
34:22
that I move through space tends to stay the same as I, as I
34:27
move, as you know, I travel through time in those stages.
34:34
OK, so we have predictable activity spaces like home and
34:37
work travel routes, and then crime tends to occur where those
34:42
paths intersect under the right conditions.
34:45
So in other words, disappearance are not just about who is
34:49
involved, but where they are and how they move through the
34:53
environment. The layout of a neighborhood,
34:55
for example, the presence or the absence of lighting in the in
35:00
the, you know, like for example, Nancy Guthrie's her neighborhood
35:07
is specifically absent of streetlights because they want
35:12
to be able to see the stars out there, right?
35:15
That that is part of the environment.
35:20
Even how often people pass through an area, They all either
35:26
create or reduce opportunities for crime.
35:30
So together, these theories, the routine activity theory, the
35:33
environmental criminology theory, they tell us that crime
35:37
isn't random, it's patterned. Those patterns are often hidden
35:40
in plain sight within everyday life.
35:42
Now, law enforcement officers, probably prosecutors, you know,
35:49
investigators, they, these are all things that they learn in
35:53
school. This is nothing that I went to
35:55
school for, right? But I think it's important for
35:58
you and me to recognize these things and educate ourselves on
36:03
these things so that we don't put ourselves where and when,
36:08
you know, we we don't put ourselves where all these
36:10
theories intersect and cause ourselves or our loved ones to
36:14
be victims. So these moments, by the way,
36:20
right, they're everywhere and every when, what is the name of
36:24
that movie? Everything, everywhere All at
36:27
once. That's where these moments are.
36:31
They're everywhere. So criminology shows that crime
36:34
is shaped by everyday routines, where people go when they're
36:37
alone, how predictable their movements are.
36:39
So, for example, walking from your car to your front door,
36:43
stepping outside for a minute, grabbing your mail, leaving at a
36:47
different time than usual, being alone when you normally wouldn't
36:50
be. These are all examples of things
36:54
that could make or create opportunities, right?
36:59
And again, we're talking like moments here.
37:02
We're talking about seconds in some cases, not not hours.
37:06
It does not take long for a person to disappear.
37:11
I mean, I think Amy Hilliard is a poster child, sadly for this.
37:16
It doesn't take long for a person to disappear, whether it
37:19
is them that want to disappear or somebody else who wants to
37:23
disappear them. It does not take long.
37:29
Let's go back to crime opportunity theory.
37:31
We talked about this a little bit yesterday.
37:33
I think, Oh, I kind of glossed over this because I only wrote a
37:42
sentence about it. But you know, when we were
37:45
talking about routine activity theory, you know, and the, and
37:54
the components, the three components, you know, basically
37:59
a motivated offender, a suitable target, the absence of a capable
38:02
guard, a capable guardian. The three components are a
38:06
person willing to act a vulnerable target, right?
38:08
No one there to stop it. We get back to where I, I was do
38:16
do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do that.
38:22
That's target suitability and the perception of normalcy,
38:26
right? If something looks normal,
38:29
people don't question it. If something looks normal,
38:34
people don't question it. The most successful
38:38
disappearances don't look like crimes.
38:42
Now, in the case like for again, for example, Amy Hilliard,
38:47
right? This one we don't think is a
38:49
crime, but it's a successful disappearance.
38:52
In the case of Nancy Guthrie, Let me bring Nancy back up.
38:59
Actually, let me bring up this picture, right?
39:02
With the exception of like this, the back door being propped open
39:07
and stuff like that, it, it didn't really look like a crime.
39:13
I mean, Savannah Guthrie said in her interview.
39:17
They had to tell the police she she can't walk to the mailbox.
39:22
She has a bad heart. She has a bad back, right?
39:24
They had to tell police this in order for police to go, OK,
39:29
we've got a crime here. So, yeah, if something looks
39:34
normal, people don't question it.
39:35
And that is that makes it perfect for a crime to take
39:38
place. OK, let's move on to crime
39:40
opportunity theory. This is a perspective in
39:43
criminology developed again by Ronald V Clark, but not solely,
39:50
certainly other researchers. It emphasizes that crime is
39:54
driven less by deep motives and more by opportunities available
39:59
in a given moment. The theory says or argues that
40:03
when opportunities for crime increase, crime itself tends to
40:06
increase, and when those opportunities are reduced, crime
40:10
decreases regardless of who the offender is.
40:13
Again, going back to my Freakonomics thing, right,
40:17
Positive and negative incentives, you know, how likely
40:22
am I able to get away with this thing?
40:26
You know, that's So what Clark is saying is exactly that crime
40:31
increases when opportunity increases.
40:33
Crime decreases when opportunity decreases.
40:37
Does not matter who the offender is.
40:39
In other words, it's not just about bad people doing bad
40:42
things. It's about situations that make
40:44
crime easier, less risky, quicker, right.
40:52
This includes factors like lack of supervision, no guardian,
40:58
nobody watching out right, easy access to a target, poor
41:02
lighting, environments where no one's paying attention, and in
41:05
the context of disappearances like Amy Hilliard, Nancy
41:08
Guthrie. The theory helps explain why
41:11
events that seem shocking or complex can actually unfold in
41:15
very, very simple ways. When the right opportunity
41:18
presents itself either to the person looking to run away or
41:24
the person looking to kidnap somebody, even if it's for the
41:27
briefest moment, it can be enough for somebody to act.
41:31
And that moment can be all that it takes for a person to just
41:35
vanish. So movement, you know, in opera,
41:43
in crime, opportunity is actually everything that again
41:46
going back to the 1970s in this like explosion of serial
41:51
killings when people had the ability to move quickly, that
41:57
increased the opportunities for crime, therefore crime
42:00
increased, right? So movement is everything.
42:02
And on the case by case level that we're talking about moving
42:06
movement into a vehicle into or out of a building into or out of
42:12
an A specific area, out of the immediate area, right?
42:16
Being able to get in and get out very, very quickly, that
42:20
increases the ability or the, the crime opportunity, right?
42:25
And, and speaking about getting out of an area, when somebody is
42:29
removed from the environment where the crime took place, that
42:34
is when the trail starts to break.
42:36
And that is where we're, we start to find the answer to how
42:41
in today's day and age, can somebody just vanish?
42:46
And the answer is distance. That's the answer.
42:52
I mean, we've gone through all these different criminal
42:54
theories to get to, and I'm not finished, but to get to 1 major
43:02
thing. And that is distance.
43:06
If a criminal can get far, far away, that is what breaks a
43:13
trail, right? And I I've been thinking a
43:16
little bit about like Ashley Buzzard, the mom accused of
43:23
murdering her beautiful little girl Melody.
43:26
I've got a got a picture of Melody right here, right.
43:32
She chose distance. She traveled pretty much half of
43:37
the United States, but she went back to where she, she, she
43:45
started, right? And that caused people to be
43:48
curious about it. And fortunately, talented,
43:53
talented investigators were able to piece things together.
43:56
Plus with a little bit of luck of those people discovering
44:02
little Melody's body, they, it appears they were able to solve
44:06
that crime. And she's allegedly right.
44:08
She's accused of it only, but nevertheless that distance is
44:17
where we start to break trails. So the first few minutes or
44:24
hours decide often whether someone can be found or not.
44:30
There's also geographic profiling.
44:32
Here's something that surprises just a lot of people.
44:34
Crimes like disappearances, like kidnapping and and maybe it's
44:39
not a crime, but running away actually usually don't happen
44:44
over long distance. They usually they don't happen
44:48
far away. This is a field called
44:50
geographic profiling. It shows that offenders actually
44:54
tend to operate within areas that they already know.
44:58
So when we're thinking about Nancy Guthrie, for example,
45:01
right? And we have people claiming that
45:05
oh, oh, she's in Sonora, Mexico. While it's not impossible for
45:12
that to be the case, the likelihood is it's more likely
45:17
that the offenders are operating in the area, places that they
45:24
know, places that they've seen before, roads that they're
45:27
familiar with, areas they feel comfortable in, because
45:30
familiarity reduces risk. And remember that risk reward
45:34
paradigm, right? If, if we have more
45:37
opportunities and it's less risky, crime goes up.
45:40
If we have fewer opportunities, it becomes more risky, crime
45:43
goes down. So yeah, the place where someone
45:48
disappears, it's usually not random.
45:50
It's usually familiar. OK, so then I started to like a
45:59
little research, you know, OK, so the trail gets broken, right?
46:03
Because of distance. Why is there no trace?
46:09
And when there's no trace, that's when somebody truly
46:11
disappears. And we live in a world where
46:14
people have phones, we have instant messaging.
46:17
We we don't really call it instant messaging anymore.
46:19
Gavin. That is an old term for AOL and,
46:22
and things like that. But, but you guys know what I
46:24
mean, right? We have texting and direct
46:26
messaging, we have digital transactions, we have GPS, we
46:31
have cameras. And but when all of that just
46:34
suddenly stops, it's not normal. It means a chain of information
46:38
has been broken, which means, you know, a disappearance isn't
46:43
just somebody being gone, it's the sudden absence of everything
46:47
that they leave behind. So when you take all of this
46:52
opportunity, timing, perception, movement, location, you start to
47:00
see patterns. And this is what investigators
47:03
are looking for. And what's interesting, at least
47:06
to me, hopefully to you, is that this exact same pattern can
47:12
apply to two completely different situations, right?
47:21
One which appears to be a runaway and one which appears to
47:24
be a kidnapping. So let's talk about Nancy here
47:29
real quick. Let's bring up this picture.
47:35
Investigators, including the FBI, have reportedly been
47:39
focused on activities and dates before she disappeared.
47:42
Right there. They've gone through, they've
47:45
asked the neighborhood, the neighbors for cameras on
47:48
specific dates. So what are they looking for?
47:55
Well, if somebody was watching Nancy, if somebody was studying
47:58
her routines, somebody was lying in wait for that right moment,
48:04
then what investigators are looking for is that development
48:11
or the engineering of an opportunity, right?
48:16
The convergent moment there, a convergence moment when the
48:20
offender, the well, the planning of the convergence moment, right
48:25
when the offender, the target, the absence of guardians, all
48:28
align, the planning of that little window, the short moment
48:32
where she's alone or she's exposed, right?
48:38
You know, looking at the perception that something might
48:42
be out of the ordinary, looking for strange movements, that sort
48:48
of thing. So even if Nancy Guthrie's case
48:52
was planned for weeks that it was kind of a Danny Ocean kind
48:55
of a thing, it still came down to a few moments when those
49:04
three things aligned right. The, the person with the right,
49:11
right motivation, the motivated criminal, the available target
49:18
or the vulnerable target and the lack of, of a, of a guardian,
49:23
right. So the question for me now
49:27
becomes, was this somebody who knew her routine?
49:32
And this is something that may be intuitive to a lot of people
49:36
and might be the reason why people have been going, Oh, I
49:40
think it's a member of the family, right?
49:42
Because your intuition says it's somebody who knows her routine.
49:46
And if that if your intuition is telling you that according to
49:51
all the research that this layperson with no bona fides,
49:55
but spent some time researching all of this research points to
49:59
that, right? That this is somebody who knows
50:03
her routine, either somebody who knows her or who spent time
50:08
getting to know her routine, right?
50:11
Somebody who learned it. Now, if we go back over to Amy,
50:20
this case, you know, there, there's a real possibility,
50:26
according to the the article that we read from the Chronicle
50:31
earlier, that there's no crime here, right?
50:34
That that she just walked away. But everything that we just
50:42
talked about still applies right now in missing persons search,
50:46
there's a category called voluntary missing, right?
50:50
So runaways, voluntary missing people who leave on their own,
50:54
It's often tied to stress, trauma, mental health crises.
51:01
But what's fascinating, at least to me, is that even when
51:04
somebody leaves voluntarily, the disappearance can follow the
51:09
exact same pattern that we've been talking about, right?
51:12
The the time gap, the the behavior, you know, leaving when
51:19
everything looks normal, nothing looks suspicious at all the
51:22
environment and everyday setting.
51:24
It's part of what I do nothing standing out the movement to get
51:29
away from the area to break the, the trail right.
51:33
The information breaks. She left the phone, she left her
51:36
keys, she left everything behind.
51:39
It's it's a very, it's a very similar thing.
51:45
The difference isn't the difference is what caused it,
51:51
not what happened. That's the difference.
51:55
So one scenario is someone taking control of another
51:57
person, the other is someone losing control of themselves,
52:03
something like that. So the part, the step stood out
52:07
to me, and I hope that you've enjoyed this.
52:10
Is that the mechanics? Well, that's what I would call
52:15
it, the yeah. The mechanics of disappearance,
52:19
whether it is voluntary or involuntary, don't change.
52:24
So if somebody is taken away or if somebody walks away, certain
52:29
things still have to happen. A break in routine, a moment of
52:32
vulnerability, a, a gap before anyone reacts, you know, loss
52:40
of, of information. That information break right
52:45
there has there have to be those three things, a somebody who's
52:49
willing to act either themselves or a criminal, a vulnerable
52:55
target and no, no guardian, right?
53:00
All of those things have to have to occur.
53:04
How do we apply this to ourselves, right?
53:07
We don't want to be walking on pins and needles the rest of our
53:10
lives, but we want to be aware of, I guess, signals that would
53:19
signal that, hey, we're we've reached a level of danger here,
53:23
right? We need to be maybe a little
53:25
more vigilant. So, yeah, these cases feel
53:32
similar. They're they're completely
53:34
different, but they feel similar and and how many how many
53:37
disappearances aren't all that dramatic, right?
53:42
How many happen in ways that are just completely ordinary, like
53:46
Amy? How many happen just right in
53:50
front of people don't even know what's going on.
53:53
They don't even realize what they're seeing right.
53:56
So I guess how would I close this?
53:59
We, we started by the, you know, just asking the simple question,
54:05
how does somebody just disappear?
54:07
I think I, I do think we have an answer.
54:10
The answer is they don't disappear all at once.
54:14
They disappear in pieces. And there has to be an
54:17
alignment, right? There has to be an alignment of
54:23
timing, environment, breaking, routine, opportunity.
54:31
It all has to line up. It doesn't have to be perfect.
54:35
It just has to line up just enough and just for a moment.
54:45
So yeah, cause of disappearance can be completely different, but
54:50
the way it happens usually or often at least isn't doesn't
54:55
require a mastermind. It doesn't doesn't require some
54:58
elaborate plan. It just requires that moment
55:01
where everything aligns just enough and for just long enough
55:08
and nobody realizes it. Yeah, let's see what you guys
55:14
are saying over here. I think I did See.
55:19
Let me let me just go back here Christine Meadows, thank you
55:23
very much for the Super chat. I really appreciate that you
55:26
guys taking care of me. I, you guys are so awesome.
55:29
I appreciate it so much. Let me scroll up to making sure
55:37
that I get everybody's comment. I don't want to miss people's
55:41
comments. Here we go, Barb Olson says.
55:45
I drove a 1972 Buick LeSabre, which was a hand me down from my
55:49
mom and Kimberly's side of the family, her her grandparents
55:57
used to buy a new car every three years.
56:02
I think is I think there was a pattern to it.
56:04
Speaking of patterns, right? And her grandma would drive the
56:09
new car and then the three-year old one would be her grandpa's
56:16
car. And then the next three years
56:20
that would become a hand me noun.
56:22
They, they were so generous. It was awesome.
56:25
But yeah, they to kids and grandkids, whoever needed a car,
56:30
you always knew it was a great car.
56:31
It was only 6 years old, had low miles, but it was a Buick.
56:40
It's funny. I, I don't know, though.
56:41
I don't know those Buicks are speaking to me.
56:45
Debbie says test drive a bunch of used cars before you buy.
56:48
Last week I bought a a used Chevy Traverse and just love it.
56:52
Awesome. And he says look at the post by
56:57
sort your life out regarding Amy Hilliard.
57:00
OK, I will maybe Robin or Mooney or autumn.
57:05
Could you, could you make a note of that in in Slack for me?
57:11
I'm sure that I will forget. Cabling says as you get older,
57:16
Gavin, it gets more predictable. Trust me, I know.
57:19
As the elder in the chat, life becomes more predictable.
57:24
Yeah, Debbie says. Gavin, sorry, but I'm not going
57:29
to just believe this husband. To me, he is a suspect until
57:32
he's not. I hope that that is exactly how
57:35
the police have been treating this.
57:37
You know, I think your skepticism hat is the right hat
57:41
to put on. Mine is behind me in my desk
57:45
there. My my skepticism hat is a tidy,
57:50
delightful little bowler. Yeah, he should be.
57:56
Everybody who, starting with the husband, should be a suspect
58:01
until they're not. Right now, according to police,
58:05
or at least the way the police are saying it publicly, he's
58:10
not. But let's all listen to Debbie
58:13
here. What we read in that article is
58:16
what the husband said. It's not necessarily the truth.
58:21
It might be the truth, could be, but it might not be as well.
58:25
So yeah, that's good. That's good.
58:31
I I can't. I don't think.
58:33
I don't think she left in a car. No, I don't.
58:38
Let me keep on scrolling on down.
58:43
Debbie also says I'm not convinced Amy is missing on her
58:46
own. Just saying.
58:47
Yeah. And you're calling me out, which
58:50
you're right to do because in in this presentation anyway, I have
58:55
presented it as if Amy did go out on her own.
58:59
But really we don't know that She may have, she may not have.
59:05
But I thought that juxtapositioning 1 where we know
59:11
there were criminals and one where at least we suspect that
59:15
there weren't was a good way to, to look at it.
59:18
But thanks for calling me out on that.
59:19
Appreciate that. Scrolling on down, of course it
59:24
refreshes. Robin says.
59:28
My step kids mom was missing for 31 years until they identified
59:32
her body with DNA. Oh my goodness, that matched
59:34
with her daughter. They submitted her DNA to the
59:38
BCA. It's never closure but a
59:40
conclusion. Wow missing for 31 years.
59:46
So sorry to hear that, Meredith says.
59:49
I think Amy ran away and I, I hope hopefully we will find out.
59:55
Hopefully she'll be found and you know, if Amy did go away on
1:00:00
her own, there might be pressure that she's putting on herself to
1:00:11
not want to be found because there's so much attention being
1:00:14
paid. But I hope if, if that is the
1:00:19
case and Amy is watching me and others that are, that are just
1:00:24
reading others that are covering her case, I hope that she can
1:00:28
come to the realization that it's OK, it's OK, you can come
1:00:35
back. There's no there, there's
1:00:38
nothing to be embarrassed about. Like I honestly feel this way.
1:00:42
This is not just me blowing smoke.
1:00:44
It's OK, you can come back. People are concerned it it's
1:00:51
like the the parable and I don't want to wax religious here
1:00:56
because I I keep this channel a religious apolitical, but this
1:01:00
is apropos the the parable of the of the prodigal son, right
1:01:07
in the New Testament, where he just felt so much shame, didn't
1:01:12
want to come back. And what happened when he came
1:01:14
back? His father fell on his neck,
1:01:16
kissed him through a party, right?
1:01:18
That's the way people will feel for Amy.
1:01:21
If she is indeed gone voluntarily.
1:01:27
I hope that she voluntarily comes back.
1:01:30
I don't know. Was that interesting to you?
1:01:34
Was that fun for you? It was fun for me.
1:01:37
It's fun for me to get into that and fun to do something where
1:01:40
we're doing something more than just reading news articles, but
1:01:45
actually trying to learn something new and deeply.
1:01:50
Speaking of learning something new and maybe deeply, it's time
1:01:54
for three questions. Let's do this.
1:01:56
It's three questions with Gavin Finn.
1:02:04
Okey dokey Mezami, the three in the three questions segment.
1:02:11
You can send questions to me to this e-mail address
1:02:15
threequestions@gavinfish.com. It's spelled out THREE questions
1:02:20
at gavinfish.com. It's easy to remember 3
1:02:22
questions at gavinfish.com. I solemnly promise that I shall
1:02:27
answer each question that comes in to that e-mail address.
1:02:32
I grabbed them. I put them in a little
1:02:34
spreadsheet and have them all organized, which ones I've
1:02:38
answered and all that stuff. But here's the deal.
1:02:42
I only answer 3 at a time. You can send in one question,
1:02:44
You can send in 1000 questions, but I'm answering three at a
1:02:47
time and I get to choose the order.
1:02:49
But I will not dodge. I will not dodge at all.
1:02:53
Question number one comes to us from Tina.
1:02:58
Why is that? Let's let's drag this over so it
1:03:01
looks a little better. There we go.
1:03:04
Gavin, what is the most physically challenging sport
1:03:07
activity you have completed? Now, this is one of my favorite
1:03:10
kinds of questions and three questions because you guys can
1:03:14
answer these questions too. And, and bonus points if you
1:03:17
make me giggle, like, have you tried to climb Everest?
1:03:22
Have you guys do we have overachievers in the audience?
1:03:25
I want to know. I am not an overachiever when it
1:03:28
comes to sporting activity. When I was a young man, I
1:03:31
enjoyed tennis. I enjoyed baseball and softball.
1:03:36
I really, really enjoyed volleyball.
1:03:40
In fact, volleyball is probably my favorite sport and the one
1:03:42
that I did the best at. But I'm really not a sporty
1:03:48
person either. Maybe 15-18 years ago, my dad
1:03:58
had recently been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and his doctor
1:04:04
advised him that he should get exercise.
1:04:07
So to encourage my dad to exercise, I agreed that I would
1:04:12
go on a walk with him every morning and we'd do it early.
1:04:14
I think we met at like 5:30 in the morning.
1:04:17
I am not a morning person by the way, and we would walk for an
1:04:20
hour. It was great.
1:04:23
It was like father son time, you know, I was a grown adult, I had
1:04:27
kids and everything, but it was father son time.
1:04:29
It was fun to go out on a walk together and and it and it did
1:04:34
help both of us with our health. But we started to get a little
1:04:40
cocky and we thought, hey, what if we did like a walk for type 2
1:04:44
diabetes where we walk the width of the nation, We walk like Hwy.
1:04:49
50. We raise money for diabetes
1:04:53
research or something like that. So and of course, we had a type
1:04:58
1 diabetic son and dad was now type 2 diabetic.
1:05:01
So you know, we were anyway, so we decided to test this.
1:05:05
We thought that in order to do it, we would have to, we'd
1:05:08
basically have to walk a marathon every day.
1:05:12
So we're like, all right, let's, let's train up and let's walk a
1:05:14
marathon. So one Saturday we get up, we're
1:05:17
in the Sacramento area, we go out to the American River Bike
1:05:21
Trail. We start at at Folsom Lake and
1:05:28
we walk, you know, the 13 plus miles down the trail, turn
1:05:33
around, walk 13 miles back. We do it all day.
1:05:38
It killed us just walking for an entire day.
1:05:45
It was so long. It was, I think it was, I think
1:05:48
it was 9 hours is what it took. It's just a walk, an entire
1:05:52
marathon and it killed us. I, my body was achy just from
1:05:58
walking for a day. My body was achy for like a week
1:06:03
and a half, two weeks. And I was pathetic about it too,
1:06:07
man. So that's my, my answer.
1:06:10
What's your answer? Diana asks.
1:06:13
Hey Gavin, why is there fuzz on a tennis ball?
1:06:16
I actually know the answer to this question.
1:06:18
As a tennis aficionado, as somebody who loved the game as a
1:06:23
young man, I haven't played in years, but something I I'd play
1:06:26
with my dad and my brothers and later my friends.
1:06:30
Fuzz is on a tennis ball in order to create more drag on the
1:06:35
ball in order to slow it down, to make the game more fun and
1:06:39
more interesting. And it also has the benefit on
1:06:44
hard surfaces of gripping the surface a little bit to do
1:06:48
things like English and stuff like that.
1:06:50
So that's number one. But I would add from this now 50
1:06:57
year old, once mischievous kid, it is also there to so that you
1:07:04
have enough material to soak in enough gasoline so that when you
1:07:10
stuff a tennis ball, a tennis ball into a potato gun and
1:07:15
ignite it at night, the ball will be a flaming ball that you
1:07:21
shoot up into the air into the night sky.
1:07:24
You can only do that a couple times though.
1:07:26
You can do it with lighter float.
1:07:27
You can do with gasoline. You can only do it a few times
1:07:30
though, because the, the fuzz singes down and then it doesn't
1:07:34
get as tightly compressed into that potato gun.
1:07:37
I know that these days people make them with PVC and like BBQ
1:07:44
lighter BBQ, you know, igniters and stuff like that.
1:07:47
No, we, we taped together Campbell's soup cans and used
1:07:52
matches. But and we just, we just shoot
1:07:56
those things up into the air. They would come, it was so high,
1:08:00
it was so much fun. Sometimes we would hold the
1:08:02
cannon and shoot the ball down the street, not a flame, but
1:08:05
shoot the ball down the street and the rest of us would be like
1:08:08
there with baseball mitts to try to catch them.
1:08:11
So those are the two reasons in my life for Fuzz, the scientific
1:08:15
reason and then the mischievous reason.
1:08:17
I would love to know what you think and what, what mischievous
1:08:23
deeds, what, what mischief did you manage as children?
1:08:28
I'd love to hear that. And question #3 from Angela
1:08:33
Gavin, are you good at cooking? And which dish do you like to
1:08:37
prepare, prepare the most? Angela, I don't know.
1:08:44
I don't think I am really a good cook.
1:08:48
I don't think I am there. There are things that I can
1:08:54
cook. I, I, I actually before our
1:08:57
daughter was diagnosed with celiac, I had become a pretty
1:09:01
talented bread Baker. But no, I'm I'm really not all
1:09:09
that talented. I have a pretty simple palette,
1:09:12
but lately as I have been focused on nutrient dense foods,
1:09:18
foods that are satiating that satisfy me for long periods of
1:09:22
time. So high protein foods, I have
1:09:26
actually started to play around with cheesecakes and making them
1:09:30
in a way where not only are they delicious, but they're full of
1:09:35
protein so that I can have sweets and and still not break
1:09:42
the calorie bank on the daily basis.
1:09:45
And I'm doing pretty good. In fact, we had an Easter.
1:09:51
Well, it was the week before Easter.
1:09:53
We had a gathering at our house. We had like a week before Easter
1:09:55
brunch for friends and family to come over.
1:09:58
And I made a couple of of my cheesecakes and they were
1:10:02
popular. They were, they were well
1:10:04
received. So that's what I'm doing these
1:10:07
days. But my, yeah, I'm not really
1:10:12
that good of a cook. Kimberly's a good cook.
1:10:15
Kimberly is a very good cook. Yeah, those are your three
1:10:18
questions. Now, I would like to know what
1:10:21
your answers are to these. These were great questions.
1:10:25
I want to know what your answers are.
1:10:26
And while you are using your little thumbs on your device or
1:10:30
your clickety clacking on a keyboard to tell me your
1:10:35
answers, remember to put GF in the comments so I can see it on
1:10:37
my end. Let's get into some headlines.
1:10:47
True crime headlines. Okie dokie.
1:10:51
I know that we've talked about it quite a bit, but I just want
1:10:54
to reiterate that Amy Hilliard is still missing.
1:10:59
She's been missing since March 25th.
1:11:01
She's a 52 year old female in Oakland, CA 5 feet 4 inches
1:11:06
tall, 120 lbs, blonde hair, Hazel eyes.
1:11:10
If you've seen her, please call 510-591-4857 or the Oakland
1:11:15
Police Department at 510-238-3641.
1:11:20
OK this written by Patrick Jordovich.
1:11:26
I don't know how to say Patrick's last name.
1:11:28
I did my best Patrick. Thank you for any grace that you
1:11:32
can extend my way. This from News Nation DNA expert
1:11:36
tells Brian Anton new tech could identify DNA in the Nancy
1:11:40
Guthrie case Renowned DNA expert CC Moore believes investigators
1:11:45
should return to Nancy Guthrie's home in a bid to recover more
1:11:48
DNA samples. In late February, Pima County
1:11:51
Sheriff Chris Nanos said DNA found at Guthrie's Tucson, AZ
1:11:55
home was mixed, meaning samples have genetic material for more
1:11:58
than one person. We've gone over how that looks
1:12:02
on this channel before. Subsequently, investigators have
1:12:05
had a more difficult experience running the DNA through national
1:12:09
databases to identify potential suspects.
1:12:11
I think they're probably, I mean, you got to go through the
1:12:15
national databases, but it's probably genetic genealogy.
1:12:18
It's going to going to break this.
1:12:20
OK, more Join News Nation senior national correspondent Brian
1:12:24
Etten on Brian and Investigates to discuss how that and new
1:12:27
technology could crack the case. Quote.
1:12:29
I think there are a lot of efforts to be able to improve
1:12:32
our ability to deconvolute DNA samples because we run into that
1:12:37
so often with essays. Or as the technology becomes
1:12:41
more sensitive with transfer DNA, the ability to detect the
1:12:44
tiniest amount of DNA that someone leaves behind really
1:12:47
increases the likelihood you're going to get a mixture, right?
1:12:51
Like on a doorknob, for instance.
1:12:54
But many of the companies that are working with law enforcement
1:12:56
to create these profiles are using whole genome sequencing,
1:13:00
and right now there's really no good techniques to deconvolute
1:13:04
on those, she added. Still, Moore believes there's
1:13:08
hope of a definitive outcome. A quote.
1:13:12
If they have not been successful in finding a good source of his
1:13:15
DNA at Nancy's home, my hope is they'll get another chance.
1:13:18
Now the really sad part of that is if they find her body, if
1:13:22
she's deceased, that gives them another opportunity.
1:13:25
And so I don't think it's the end, Moore said.
1:13:28
And you can read the rest. There's a link in the
1:13:31
description down below. I found this interesting.
1:13:35
This from the New York Post written by Kevin Sheehan and
1:13:37
Jorge Fitzgibbon jail boss reveals eerie trait that sets
1:13:43
Gilgo Beach killer apart from other infamous inmates like John
1:13:47
Gotti. Suffolk County Sheriff Errol
1:13:50
Toulon has come face to face with everyone from mob boss John
1:13:54
Gotti to killer gang bangers and cold blooded cop killers, but
1:13:58
none creep him out like Rex Heuerman.
1:14:00
Toulon has been guarding dangerous inmates for 44 years
1:14:04
is now in charge of keeping tabs on the twisted Long Island
1:14:07
serial killer until he gets shipped to state prison in June.
1:14:12
Quote I've seen so many people when you talk to about John
1:14:16
Gotti, cop killer Larry Davis, the four people that killed
1:14:20
Eddie Burns, accused subway vigilante Bernard Getz.
1:14:24
You know all these people, Joel Steinberg, Robert Chambers.
1:14:28
I was able to look these men in their eyes, the sheriff said.
1:14:31
And there is just something different about this guy.
1:14:34
I feel he's very calculating. That is the best word.
1:14:38
He's talking to you, but I feel like he's very calculating.
1:14:41
He's sizing you up each and every time.
1:14:43
Each and every time I walk in there.
1:14:45
So you can continue that article on the link down below.
1:14:51
This is finally an update in the Lincoln Snelling case on
1:14:57
people.com written by Chris Spargo.
1:14:59
Beauty queen accused of killing newborn after giving birth in
1:15:02
bedroom pleads not guilty to manslaughter.
1:15:07
There is a recent photo of Lincoln Snelling.
1:15:10
Snelling appeared in a Kentucky courtroom on Friday morning and
1:15:13
pleaded not guilty to manslaughter.
1:15:15
The 22 year old beauty queen is accused of killing her newborn
1:15:19
child after giving birth in the bedroom of her off campus home
1:15:23
during the first week of classes at the University of Kentucky in
1:15:26
August of last year. Snelling arrived in court
1:15:28
flanked by her two lawyers and said nothing during her brief
1:15:32
appearance, with one of her lawyers entering a plea on her
1:15:34
behalf. She previously pleaded not
1:15:37
guilty at her September arraignment to three additional
1:15:40
charges. A grand jury indicted her on in
1:15:42
March abuse of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence
1:15:46
and concealing the birth of an infant.
1:15:50
During her Friday court appearance, Snelling left the
1:15:52
courtroom after just a few minutes and is scheduled to
1:15:55
return on May 14th for a preliminary hearing and again on
1:15:58
June 12th for a status hearing. So and then it just talks about
1:16:03
the case, which we have covered at length, but at least we have
1:16:07
an update now we've got a lot. 1 more from headlines.
1:16:14
Wrong button. This in the Tyler Robinson case.
1:16:20
Tyler Robinson, of course, accused of assassinating
1:16:25
conservative What would you call him?
1:16:29
Conservative activist Charlie Kirk written by Emily Shapiro
1:16:36
for ABC News Alleged gunman Tyler Robinson wrote in letter
1:16:40
opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, according to court
1:16:43
documents. Charlie Kirk's accused killer
1:16:47
back in court blah blah blah. Tyler Robinson, the man accused
1:16:51
of killing conservative activist Charlie Kirk, allegedly told his
1:16:55
boyfriend, Quote, I had the opportunity to take out Charlie
1:16:58
Kirk and I took it. According to newly unsealed
1:17:01
court documents, on September 10th, 2025, the day of the
1:17:04
shooting, Robinson allegedly sent his boyfriend a message
1:17:07
that said, quote, drop what you were doing, look under my
1:17:10
keyboard, according to the search warrant affidavit.
1:17:14
Robinson's boyfriend told police that he found a handwritten
1:17:17
letter under the keyboard, the document said.
1:17:20
ABC News first reported of the existence of the letter in
1:17:23
September. Police said they reviewed the
1:17:26
boyfriend's photo of the letter, The note read, according to the
1:17:29
documents. If you are reading this per my
1:17:31
text then I am so sorry. I left the house this morning on
1:17:34
a mission and sent and set an auto text.
1:17:38
I am likely dead or facing a lengthy prison sentence, the
1:17:42
letter continued, according to court documents.
1:17:44
I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and took it.
1:17:47
I don't know if I will have succeeded, but I had hoped to
1:17:51
make it home to you. I wish I could have lived in a
1:17:54
world where this did not feel necessary.
1:18:00
So, Tyler Robinson, update there.
1:18:04
Those are your headlines. But wait.
1:18:06
But wait, guys, there's more. Do you know why?
1:18:09
Because we're trying on this whole good news thing.
1:18:12
We're trying on the good news thing.
1:18:14
And so I found a piece of good news that isn't a sales pitch
1:18:19
like yesterday. That one bothered me.
1:18:21
It was good news, but it bothered me.
1:18:27
This one coming from goodnewsnetwork.org, written by
1:18:33
Andy Corbley. 12 year old girl named a hero for running into
1:18:38
burning home to save brothers. Oh, this makes me feel good.
1:18:43
Oh, I love this. In fact, you know what?
1:18:45
Hey, Wanda, can we just get some transition music before we get
1:18:49
into this? Let's just let's just get some
1:18:53
weekend Caribbean vibes going. Well, that's that's good, Wanda.
1:19:02
In fact, I'm just going to turn that down into the background.
1:19:06
I'll bet set. No, we'll Wanda, why don't you
1:19:10
go ahead and stop it. All right, Thank you.
1:19:12
That was a good transition, though.
1:19:14
Thank you. Wanda, a Georgia preteen, saved
1:19:17
her older brothers from potentially perishing in a fire
1:19:20
that consumed the left side of the family's two-story home.
1:19:24
She's been hailed by family and community as a hero who saved
1:19:27
the most important things the family had while everything else
1:19:32
was destroyed in the fire. Each other.
1:19:35
The Johnson family of 6 had only moved into the house a few
1:19:38
months before the fire started last Monday in their garage as
1:19:42
it raged across the ground floor.
1:19:45
Macy arrived home on the school bus and saw the fire.
1:19:48
WJCL News didn't say whether she knew her two older brothers were
1:19:52
in the house, but in any case, she ran to the door and began
1:19:54
screaming that the house was on fire.
1:19:56
Quote, my oldest son was preparing to go to work.
1:19:59
He was in the shower. Again, had no idea until she
1:20:03
started screaming, said Macy's mother, Lisa Johnson, who said
1:20:06
her second oldest son was asleep in his room over the garage.
1:20:11
She's an incredible girl and I'm very proud of her.
1:20:14
Firefighters from Richmond Hill and Bryan County arrived quickly
1:20:18
and stopped the fire before it consumed the entire house.
1:20:21
The cause of the fire is under investigation.
1:20:24
Quote, hard as it is to know that we've lost almost
1:20:27
everything, we have a lot of memories, a lot of good things.
1:20:31
We have each other and we have God, Missus Johnson said.
1:20:34
And I have faith in him and there's a reason for everything.
1:20:37
Good on Little Miss Macy Johnson saving her brother's life lives.
1:20:44
And that is terrific, terrific news.
1:20:48
And guys, those are your headlines, true crime headlines.
1:20:58
Okie dokie. Let's just make sure that I am
1:21:01
refreshed so I can see all of your comments.
1:21:05
Money says very informative Gavin good, good, good, good,
1:21:08
good. Jules and me says I missed the
1:21:11
pow at the end of the three questions intro graphic Jingle
1:21:15
three questions with Gavin fish pow.
1:21:17
I I didn't why did I stop doing that?
1:21:20
I don't know. I don't know, Maybe I need to.
1:21:22
Maybe I need to to power it up a little bit.
1:21:27
Sort out your life. Says I walk 20,000 steps every
1:21:29
day. Whoa.
1:21:32
Not to brag. OK, that's pretty awesome.
1:21:37
Do you know how many steps now I have injured my knee?
1:21:40
I tried to get 6 to 8000 in a day. 6 to 8000.
1:21:45
I I live a pretty sedentary life sitting in front of a computer
1:21:48
all day long. Today I have walked 2087 steps,
1:21:55
exactly 110th, almost exactly 110th.
1:21:58
What sort your life out does on a daily basis.
1:22:02
Good for you. Scotch's mom says Zumba.
1:22:05
I can't do anything physically challenging sports anymore more
1:22:08
because it will induce A migraine.
1:22:10
But Zumba good for you. That is awesome.
1:22:14
Debbie says whitewater rafting on Level 3 and 4 Rapids for the
1:22:17
first time. It was scary.
1:22:20
I peed in my rented wet suit. Oops.
1:22:27
That's awesome. Elizabeth McMaster, Esquire.
1:22:30
Gavin, I did several of those mud climbing courses.
1:22:33
One was called Warrior Dash half marathons as well.
1:22:36
Good for you. My wife has done that.
1:22:39
They they're called Tough Mudders out here and and she's
1:22:42
also done marathons and half marathons.
1:22:45
My wife's amazing, amazing. And so are you, Elizabeth.
1:22:49
Thank you very much, Robin says. I walked miles during one day at
1:22:53
the Ryder Cup. Miles to parking, than miles in
1:22:56
line, miles on the course. I also needed a knee replacement
1:23:00
at the time. Nobody would have stopped me.
1:23:01
Good for you. Just stuck, he says.
1:23:04
I did marching band for four years.
1:23:06
Much more physical than it looks.
1:23:08
Oh, yeah? Oh, I'm sure it is.
1:23:10
I was in the best shape of my life, you know, marching band.
1:23:15
Marching band is cool. And I love, I love like the high
1:23:19
schools that have a good marching band program, not just
1:23:24
going out, you know, on the field and playing, but actually
1:23:27
marching. It's cool, it's cool.
1:23:31
I love it. Let's see.
1:23:35
Hive mind eyes wide open. Thank goodness it's Friday.
1:23:39
Everybody from the spa, city, dog, dog track, casino,
1:23:43
amusement park, gangster museum and wax museum.
1:23:46
Any ideas, Gavin? I'm Vegas.
1:23:50
I don't know. I don't know.
1:23:53
Scotch's mom says I'm an OK cook.
1:23:56
I cook a pretty good baked chicken.
1:23:59
Nice Angel. Oh.
1:24:03
Angela King says I'd love to hear more about the cheesecake
1:24:07
ingredients. Maybe.
1:24:09
Yeah, that's something I can put in the tank.
1:24:11
And you guys know that you can join us on Facebook in what we
1:24:17
call the fish tank. If you go to my website,
1:24:19
gavinfish.com, click on the little fishy icon up in the
1:24:22
corner. That will take you to the fish
1:24:24
tank. I will.
1:24:26
I'll put my recipe up there. I'll try to remember.
1:24:29
Try to remember. Yeah, I will do so.
1:24:35
It's it's a faux cheesecake. It's not like a delicious New
1:24:39
York style cheesecake, but it is delicious.
1:24:41
It's very, very good. It's just a little different,
1:24:46
Robin says. I make a mean chili and use
1:24:49
steak, use steak meat slow cooked in tomatoes, onions and
1:24:53
chili powder. It's fall apart meat and tasty
1:24:56
noise. Noise, Robin says.
1:25:01
I'm telling you, Gavin, we need a chat cookbook online.
1:25:06
Maybe we maybe we need to to make a little cookbook.
1:25:10
That's a good idea. Yeah.
1:25:13
Diddly Squat says Plus in the 70s we didn't have cell phones
1:25:16
to catch license plates, etcetera.
1:25:18
Yeah, you'd have to like look and remember it.
1:25:22
True, true, true, true. What a great conversation.
1:25:25
You know what? We have the best chat on
1:25:27
YouTube. Thank you very much for for
1:25:30
joining me tonight. And this week.
1:25:33
We're going to take the weekend off.
1:25:35
Last two, last two, yeah, live streams have been especially
1:25:39
enjoyable for me. I hope they've been enjoyable
1:25:41
for you as I've dug deep into, you know, what makes criminals
1:25:47
tick when answering the questions, how do people
1:25:50
disappear and why do people victimize victims?
1:25:54
You know, that's it's been really enjoyable for me.
1:25:57
I hope it's been enjoyable for you too.
1:26:00
Thank you for sticking around to the end.
1:26:02
Thank you to my patrons, to my Spotify viewers and listeners,
1:26:06
to everybody who gave a super chat or super sticker today.
1:26:11
You guys are awesome. Thank you for watching, liking,
1:26:14
subscribing, doing all the things you guys are making my
1:26:17
dream come true and can't do without you.
1:26:21
Thank you so much. So I will see you on Monday
1:26:25
right here, 6:00 PM Eastern. And until then I bid you, I do
1:26:31
and I really hope to see you then.
1:26:33
Until then, how many times can I say then and at the end of this
1:26:38
here outro then, then, then, then, then, then, then, then,
1:26:42
then take care of yourselves. Thank you very much for watching
1:26:46
this video. If you liked what you saw,
1:26:48
please consider subscribing and if you have any questions or
1:26:52
comments, please leave them below.