Latest / The People Run Podcast / #9: 20 Years of Sub 2:40 Marathons - Who Is Jerry Faulkner?

Transcript

#9: 20 Years of Sub 2:40 Marathons - Who Is Jerry Faulkner? · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've gotten a lot of dust collectors uh in my past.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten a lot of dust collectors.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: So winning the Oklahoma City Marathon, that was an awesome blast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've won the Oklahoma City half three times.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: That was a blast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've won Tulsa Marathon.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I used to have the course record.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Ran 227.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was a blast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um won Rochester Marathon.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was a blast.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I still have the course record.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've ran 96 New York Roadrunner races.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, 96 of them.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh also I've made world US team for uh Masters, and I've made a worlds team for Duathlon, and I got runner of the year for New York for USATF.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I've gotten a lot of accomplishments, but the thing is.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the People Run Podcast.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Fitz.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, appreciate you for hopping on.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is the People Run where we talk about runners, everyday runners, all kinds of runners, whether you're uh going to school, mom, parent, you're trying to be a pro.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: But today's guest has been doing it consistently for such a long time, which is why I wanted to have on.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have the pleasure of having Jerry with me on today.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's a pretty fast runner.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll get into it in a minute.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you, Jerry, for hopping on.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's done Iron Man also as well, two times 70.3 Iron Man.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I got loads of questions.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even more so, he's been running at a very high level consistently for years.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, just a sneak peek.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen he's been running around 230, 220 for almost two decades now, which is mind-boggling just to think about.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to do it at such a high level and consistently, you know, usually there's injuries involved and whatnot.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: But uh Jerry's Jerry's got the sauce in his figure out.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jerry, welcome on.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, how you doing, my man?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, man.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Doing really, really well.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Surviving this uh New York summer right now.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're in high uh deep training, like heat training right now.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like training like altitude level, but you know, more New York style where it's really humid, but you get a good sweat on, and then getting ready for the fall for marathon season.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you got lined up for the fall?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a big, big race.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh New York City Marathon is happening, and I'm in it, and they're making it a uh World Majors Masters this year.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the uh best of the world masters level is going to be competing at the New York City Marathon.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um that throws some names in my head immediately.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I didn't know they were doing that, but uh Bekele comes to mind right away.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's gonna be a pretty fast, pretty fast field, and like it'll bring about the best fittest masters runners out and everything because it's a world championship, and New York Marathon is perfect for that because it's such an international race.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's gonna be cool, man.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious because um New York was my first uh marathon.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: As we chopped it up, I'm I'm originally from New York uh before this for anyone listening.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: But somehow New York became my first, and the reason I bring this up, it's it's it's a hard one.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: As I'm sure you know, you've ran it a couple of times from what I've seen, and uh I think it brings an even playing field.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm curious.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm eager to see it now.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's definitely gotten a lot bigger.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, with the pan before the pandemic, it was doing really, really well.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was really one of those big majors, but now like after the pandemic, and now the running boom is on.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like such a high demand of doing this race.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So many people want to do it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so New York Roadrunners just has to like figure out how to provide great great event for everybody.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I mean, they usually get about like the year that last year that I ran it was in 2017, and they had 65,000 runners, and I think they last year they had 64, and eventually they want to get back to like they used to do 68,000 runners, so it's it's a pretty big deal, and it's a really awesome race.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: The race, the great thing about the race is it goes through all these different boroughs and different cultures and different running communities, and the city welcomes it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's more as a celebration, it's still as a race, but it is a big time of a celebration event.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with that, man.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when I did it, I remember saying, well, one, I was dying after the Queen's uh borough bridge and whatnot, but uh I I felt like an Olympian, uh, even just being a regular runner.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: What year did you end up running the marathon?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: 23.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: 23, yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I'm talking about.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: The vibes are insane, man.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, as you alluded to, you know, you go through one borough, it's one kind of music.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: You go one through another borough, it's one kind of cheers.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm also Spanish, so you know, I believe it's mile 20 something, you get all the Spanish people out there.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely a vibe, man.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, talking about that, you brought it up.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious for someone who's done it uh for so long, and and we'll get into some background right after this question, I guess, is um what's your take on the new boom, you know, with running?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I we all see it, running is becoming used, these races are getting ginormous.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, New York broke the record the year before, London just broke it again.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I'm sure you've seen a lot through these years.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's definitely has changed.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when I took up, when I started running, there was uh barely any social media.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: There was like, I would say Facebook was just now starting, and then there was MySpace.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then GPS was really, really small back then.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was like only two brands that actually did GPS was Garmin and Polar.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And they had a little bit bigger watch facing, and it wasn't that time yet where you can actually sync up the GPS to your smartphone because there was only one smartphone that was around that you can actually use.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, it was like 2000, 2000, where they started like 2001, 2002, when they actually, Garmin actually brought out a GPS watch, and then Nike came into Nike Plus.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the running community was a little bit more smaller, it was a little bit more uh, it still is, it was very competitive, and this was before the super shoe movement and also the community movement, and then 2000, I would say 2017, 2016, the super shoe movement came evolved, and also everybody had smartphones, all these running apps were starting to be developed.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I remember uh I was friend with one of the people that was like working for Strava, and they were about to go bankrupt because people weren't using the app at all.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: People weren't using the app, people were using Nike Plus, uh Adidas Runners Club, and also uh map map my run from Under Armour.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So people were using those apps, such as the full-on competitive distance runner or the full-on competitive athlete, was not using the traditional GPS apps.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: They were still using Garmin and they weren't using it as a social media platform.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So Strava was slowly, slowly getting better, but they were starting to hit, they were starting to hit some like turbulent water.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then when COVID happened, all the races got shut down, and so only the community was was the social media community, the platform community, and that's where everybody started taking up running and starting to use Strava, and Strava's numbers went straight up.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Same as with Peloton and Swift, their numbers went straight up because uh people were starting to use the the uh like the apps to be able to communicate, but also to be able to make a community.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And now having that big running community right now after that pandemic is just double doubled in size, especially the running shoe companies and even the app companies, the the active communities are really trying to work on getting the community based.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're really focusing more on the community instead of the competitive, if you notice that.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they're really trying to get people to be more involved, be more active, instead of just focusing on the elite side of the sport.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, being out here in Colorado, I see that often.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we chopped it up here and spoke before this about being Colorado.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely see that.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh funny enough, just yesterday, one of the clubs out here had uh New Balance, and and I see all the Masics, uh Ultra, like all the brands eventually come out here.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I'm close to Boulder and I'm in Denver where like you do see a lot of elites, but most of the focus I see often is like the run clubs, the everyday, like average, you know, or like more like just not elite level, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's getting in that community and having people try on shoes or or just being involved in local races and whatnot, which you know, even just looking back and digging history, I'm more of a neuron compared to you.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: But like back then it was more like, hey, this shoe is for your two hours and something math on.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now we have all kinds of shoes.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, funny enough, I was looking at your stuff earlier today, and you you have one of my favorite shoes, but I believe it's because you're an Adidas stripe guy from what I saw.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so I I uh end up, I'm like I'm a tech rep for Adidas, so I'm a specialist, I'm a product educator for Adidas.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So my job, what pays the bills, is I uh go into running shoe stores and I educate the sales associates about the story behind Adidas, and then I represent Adidas, and then also I do marketing with Adidas in the running community as well.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I have all Manhattan and Long Island and Connecticut and New Jersey and New York.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So those are my territories that I cover, and my job is to promote the stripes and being able to get stripes on feet.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's so awesome, man.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I was curious and I wanted to ask you, I just happened to segue this way, but like I I saw in all your running and going through all your stuff, you've been rocking Adidas for a long time, and that's awesome you get to do that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because in my opinion, and I'm not saying this to hype you up or anything, but it's one of the shoes I'm wearing most.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I love Adidas right now, and it's funny.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: You probably know this as a as a fellow New Yorker.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, we'll get into Subacter in a minute, but like usually we're more Nike people.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: But ever since I got into running, man, and more consistently, like right now, Adidas is is is killing it, and Evo SL is my favorite shoe right now.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: That shoe's awesome.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: The shoe's awesome.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just just to like a little background behind my my experience on like being in the city, and especially you talking about the check, you know, um I've lived in New York for about 14 years, and I actually I mean, I moved from Oklahoma.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I moved from Oklahoma, Oklahoma.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've lived there for 30 years, managed a running shoe store, very local competitive runner, won the uh local marathons there, and then me and my wife, we ended up selling everything and moving to New York.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I actually worked for the Czech for three years.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and it was a great experience.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I worked for the check for three years, and then I ended up getting an opportunity to work for Fitbit and then worked for Fitbit for about six years, and now like when the pandemic happened, I ended up switching and going to the stripes, and I've been with the stripes for three, three and a half years.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I've learned a lot being in that retail market, especially in the health community retail market.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just so much fun, and it's just this the city, the city loves, they love like people being active, they love the culture, they love sports, and that's a great thing about New York.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, that's a great thing about with living in New York is they love running.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, agreed, man.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're always gonna see runners no matter what time of day is out there, and uh even some conditions.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, getting into that, I want I want to get into some of your uh your backstory.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: You share a little bit there.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: You grew up um Oklahoma, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh um, or you lived there at least for 30 years.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um something I didn't share earlier, but you have won the Oklahoma race out there and several others.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, share a little bit about your background, how you started into running and and some of those early win races, uh, although I I know there's plenty.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's crazy.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I started running in uh early 2000 as a college walk-on.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: The crazy thing is I went to school, this is called a university called St.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Gregory's University.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a small NAI school in Shawnee, Oklahoma.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's more uh southeast of Oklahoma City.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you ever go to Oklahoma City, if you want to go to Shawnee, it's southeast, it's the southeast part of Oklahoma City.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I went there to actually play golf.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't a big fan of running at all.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was not because it's a little bit different in the Midwest culture.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Running is not as popular.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just the reason why is because a lot of kids do sports and they use running as a training, not as a passion.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I used to play ice hockey, I used to play soccer, I used to play baseball, and I used to play basketball.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing was, if you didn't do good or compete at that day, you would get punished to go run.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, by the way, you guys didn't win the game last night, you didn't make your free throws.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do our practice, you guys are gonna do some laps.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna do this is even the funniest thing is I always hated doing suicides, especially in basketball.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted you to go do suicide.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if you ended up missing a layup or missing a free throw, you had to do a suicide.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And same as if with baseball, if you had errors and we didn't play really well, we'd have to do laps, or if we're not listening to the coach, have to do laps.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then same same as with the ice hockey is like if you guys didn't play well, we would have to do laps or suicides.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so running became more of a punishment.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more like it's more of a punishment like in the Midwest culture, because if you didn't do or you didn't succeed or didn't win, or if you didn't perform the way that you wanted to perform, no, like there was no success on that.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh when I was in college, I wanted to do something different, and so my friend from uh college, one of my best friends, he ended up talking me into joining the cross-country team.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up becoming a walk-on on the cross-country team.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the crazy thing is, my first 8K was at OSU Jamboree, and it was brutal.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: That was a super hilly course, and it's just like any run that you first do, like any, like if you're a beginner runner, everything hurts.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Everything hurts.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: The first two years, everything hurts.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you ever feel that way when you've started running?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: All the time, man.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's funny I share it now, even with new runners, but just going back to me, man, I I still to this day remember those first few runs.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was in Florida, which already makes it you talked about heat and humidity.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was summer, but man, my shins hurt.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it feels like every run, now that we know more now, is is lactate too.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, zone two no matter what, you know.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're brutal.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: But so I was running in a pair of Prestos.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you guys even if there's for your sneaker heads, so I was running in a pair of Prestos.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, they just looked cool.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every running shoe says running, running is running, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Running is running.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: This shouldn't be that technical.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I end up getting shin splints and also having a really bad poor diet, getting shin splints and side stitches, because always, you know, if you have a bad diet and you're not getting enough oxygen, you're going to get a cramp.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got that, and I got the first part of like learning to run, and it's just really, really difficult.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was always the last place guy on my team.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this was my freshman year, and then I went into a running specialty store, got the right pair of shoes.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is, my coach was so hesitant of actually getting me a pair of shoes, he found the cheapest pair, and he got me a pair of uh these running shoes for$15.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So so my first pair of shoes was$15.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a clearance shoe that was from uh the 1993.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was the 857 old New Balance shoes.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So even worse, very retro.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um had the had the felt on it, you know, the felt that's now that you can get those shoes at Journey or uh what is it?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um what is those sneaker shoe stores?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a more of a lifestyle shoe, not really a running shoe.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was coming from the like like eight, late 80s, early 90s.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up running in those, and then I worked my average the summer, and I ended up going from 33 in an 8K to all the way to 29 minutes for an 8K.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So going from seven-minute pace, this is from seven minutes to all the way to 550 pace in one year, in one year.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a huge difference.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Big jump.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the jump, what the trick was is just staying consistent.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I did is like this is for beginner runners.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: What I did was I trained three times a week.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I did mostly easy mileage and I did time on feet.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Time on feet.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what really helped was I I never like I never knew that I can actually do it.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so every time I went running, I would look back how far I went.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, sh, I ran that far.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really it's really an achievement.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you can look where you've ran from and say, I ran five blocks, that's a big deal, especially if you're somebody that's never really like believed yourself that you could do it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started adding on and adding on, and then I came back my sophomore year, and I ended up running 1630 for 5k, and then started running 27 minutes.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I came from 550 to 520, and then it just started adding down.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then I got to my senior year, and I was running 1430, and then I was running 30 for a 10K, and I was like, let's go, let's go.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it was awesome, it was awesome.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and this was like before Garmin.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I was writing everything down in a runner's journal, using a Timex watch, going on time, not worrying about posting on social media or anything like that.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was just keeping my own records.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then got done with college.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, is the difference between from smaller states to bigger states.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, in New York, there's a lot more community after college.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, like they have track meets for runners that are done with college where you cannot, you don't have to go up to the marathon, you don't have to do road racing, you can actually do track for a little bit longer, or you can compete with the club, such as when I was in Oklahoma.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: After college is pretty much it, you can't do track because a lot of the college wanted to keep it more amateur, they don't want older runners running in their mates, so it was really hard to get in.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up taking up the marathon, and I ended up running my first marathon in uh 2005.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a great video if you guys find it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is the marathon is just way, way, way different than any other sport.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's so, so different.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's so challenging, but also it's so mental.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: The crazy thing about it is so I ended up running my first marathon.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up doing 70 miles a week, and I end up running my first marathon going out super hard.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up going through 72 through halfway.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Have you like so so if if you ever ran a marathon and you go completely out and you're just like, okay, this is nothing.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this was before gels or goose or anything like that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: They only had Gatorade and water.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so went out super hard, and then I was like, okay, I'm just gonna treat this like a long run.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I go through 72, 112 through the halfway, and this was before super shoes.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was wearing, um, I was wearing a lightweight new balance racing flat that probably was like almost like a it was like a 10, it was like 10 millimeters and maybe a six offset, so not very much cushion.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's going through halfway.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, all right, I'm leading the race, I'm leading the Oklahoma City Memorial Marathon, and I'm like, all right, all I have to do is hold this pace, run 520s, make it as a long run.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I get to mile 20, I start running 630 pace, and the wheels start slowly falling off.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: The wheels start slowly falling off.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the news truck is right in front of me through the whole race.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have the the local news recording me from start to all the way to mile 20.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I get to mile 25.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm running 7:30 pace.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I come from 6:30 to 7:30.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I am completely hitting the wall.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: The news people are trying to interview me, and I am dying.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am completely dying, and I'm like, all right, I just gotta hang in there.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I got a mile and 200 meters to go.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just hang in there, Jerry.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hang in there.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I get about 200 meters left into the race.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this guy comes right by me, flies right by me.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I thought it was a relayer, but it was end up the second place guy ends up catching me with 200 meters to go, passes me, he ends up running 231.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I end up crawling it in and running 232 for my first marathon and getting second.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I led all the way till 200 meters left in the race, and I end up blowing up and everything.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a good experience, and it drove me, it gave me more motivation to grow my running career.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And my first marathon, I ended up running 232, and then I've ran, geez, I've ran like 26 marathons, and they've all been under 240, and my personal best is 221.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: The previous, then the next year, I come back and I end up winning it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I end up running.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I end up leading the whole thing again, but I end up taking in nutrition better.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I end up going out slower, going, doing it a little bit more smarter.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't say until you run 10 marathons, you have an idea of how to run the marathon.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a beginner runner that's running a marathon, really run on cautious, run within yourself, and just give it a shot.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So is that the same type of like what you have experienced as well?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, man.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So much to unpack there, man.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: One, you punked me up.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go run right now.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Just the way you told that story about your first race, man, and then coming back to win it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I will say there's some differences there from like my first to yours, not being speed, but you were way faster.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what I'm getting at is I I think it's different, and I want to touch on this after this.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But um, since I started running later and the advent of the Stravas, the tech, social media, and that stuff, there's so much information, whether it be good or wrong, but I I think I've been able to um, and I believe most runners now are able to at least take advantage of some of the information is out there.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't what I I say that to say I didn't go out super hard on my first one.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, granted, you I I still, for me, I cramped up around mile 18 at New York, but I didn't go super hard knowing that you know there's people like you and before you that came to say, hey, you know, don't start out too fast in the marathon because you will, you know, catch mile 20, you're gonna hit that that wall.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I did feel decently compared to, say, you know, someone 10 years ago when we didn't have social media or people telling you, hey, take this gel every 30, 40 minutes.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it went a little better in that regard, just because nowadays there's so much information and tech out there, whether it be YouTube, social media, podcasts like this, uh the advent of sneakers, you know, my shoe wasn't a 10 mil flat.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I still made some mistakes.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: For example, Vaporfly was my first marathon shoes.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't have probably been doing that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Great shoe, but not uh not for a first marathon.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I still made it work, but you know, there's definitely some advantages of you know learning from those before us.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um that I I didn't have that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: What I want to ask you though is that that's crazy um for you to go just Gatorade in water.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: That that just sounds nuts to me.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And just the the shoe stacks, you know.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So many years of doing 220, 230, 240.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like you touched on it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: You worked on nutrition some, but like what I guess what I want to ask you is what's some of the things you've seen over the years that you've worked on, some of it that makes sense, some of it that doesn't make sense.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll I'll leave it at there before I go into other stuff.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would say something that makes sense is definitely if you are taking up the marathon or just working on your running, mileage is so important.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is it's got to count on what you're trying to do as an athlete.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you're somebody that's trying to run a marathon and you have a goal, um, I would say a goal and hit like that's what you're shooting for, the long run and the mileage is going to do it the most.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's three characteristics that's going to help you succeed: rest, nutrition, and then less stress.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't stress as much, you're going to put less stress on your body, you're going to have a little bit better balance.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then sleep.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sleep is huge, especially as an endurance athlete.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have that time to get off your legs to recover.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: You at least need eight, eight to nine hours, even seven hours of sleep in between your runs just to be able to for your body to bounce back.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then nutrition protein, protein, protein, protein.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because protein helps muscle recovery.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Also, protein helps bone growth.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that's a little bit different with distance running between cycling and swimming.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Such as with distance running, you build bone density.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's one great thing about distance running, is you build bone density.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Such as with swimming and cycling, you don't build bone density at all.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because the thing is your body is not taking the pounding.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing is, if you're a cyclist and you're taking up running, you have a higher chance, even a swimmer, you have a higher chance of getting a stress reaction just because your bones are not used to that pounding, also that bone density.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm saying, like, on what type of sport and how you're trying to go at it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you're a beginner runner, is being able to run within yourself to be able to set certain goals, to be able to achieve, not to compare yourself to other athletes, but to be able to help yourself because everybody runs different.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: That that's perfect, man.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's that's good insight on the bone density.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to ask you.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: So when you told your story about the previous racing and how you got into running, you know, there wasn't a Strava, there wasn't a um an Instagram, and and you know, Garmin, we used Garmin, but not to the level of today, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the way you told your story, it kind of feels like, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that there were some benefits to that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned time on feed and going five blocks and stuff, and and just trying to hit that pace.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, you didn't have the best fueling in your marathon.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel with what we have now versus like how you came up running that there are some advantages to that, meaning like, hey, look, I just ran and went fast and I didn't know any better of like trying to focus on zone two versus this and trying to do too many things at once?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think it's it just counts on what you're trying to do and then what type of person you are.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Such as when I was starting to fall in love with running, it was nothing about purity.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was not about like social media, it was not about connection, it was not about you know, trying to get followers.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was not about trying to get a brand sponsor, it was just about trying to be competitive with myself and to achieve goals, just to be able to run fast.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that you'll meet some of the local, local legends like Bill Rogers, Dick S Bick, Dick Beardsley.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, those athletes, they didn't have social media back then.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: You just ran fast and you trained and you wrote it down, and and at the end of the day, it just counts on who can run the times and being able to put it down.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Such as now, people uh, you know, it counts on how many followers, how many people you have, or how big of influence you have.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're one of the elite lead guys, like the gold medalist, it's kind of like how do you follow them, and now how do you like you know have a documentary?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because right now, I would say there's a lot of social media influencers that actually have like camera crews that follow them.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: They actually have a camera crew uh that follows them.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have like the best of the best runners will have a follow uh camera crew.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: You may have the beginner beginner running runner uh that may have a camera crew.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's really a lot about there's a lot of noise out there, but the thing is there's a lot of resources out there that could help you.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is it just counts on how you take it in and how you take in social media and how do you take in the environment.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, on that subject, what are some of your current or consistent you know training philosophies?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like how do you train now?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know you mentioned you started running and eventually you did get up to higher mileage.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do you train now?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's been consistent over so many years and such success in marathon and just running in general?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, is mileage.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about mileage.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you go from go from the greats, the people that have won gold medals to people that have ran record times.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the elite guys that have run 209, it's all mileage.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's really much mileage and strength.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I started running, I was doing about 55 miles a week in college, 55 to 70.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And usually 70 is the magic number for a college athlete, just because it's enough to make you stronger, but also to increase your VO2 max.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a good VO2 max or a high VO2 max, it's easier to produce oxygen and be able to take in oxygen.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you're able to run faster, quicker.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the thing is that as a beginner runner, usually the first two years is gonna be tough.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: The third year, your body's gonna be adapted to it and you're gonna start, you know, you start getting addicted to the endorphins because your body is no longer going through shock because it's adapted to the I would say the strain, the uncomfortability.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So usually I tell people that are beginner runners, it's playing, say it's gonna be, it's gonna at least take you about two years to actually enjoy running.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And when you after past that two years, you're going to enjoy it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing 55 miles a week, and usually 55 miles to 43 miles is usually a lot of high school kids are doing that mileage, and that's how they're like trying to stay healthy.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start getting into college, you start doing more mileage, and then after you when you get out of college, you could start doing like when you're about 23 to 20, 23 to, I would say 23 to about 35 is the magical number where you could start doing about more than uh, you know, more than 70.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can get to up to 100 to 120 miles a week.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even there's some people that do 150 or 200 miles a week.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: But those people that do that high mileage, you gotta have time to recover.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And those people are usually don't have a full-time job.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're usually professionals that are doing, like, for example, Kachogi usually does 150 miles.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's a professional athlete.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Usually professional athletes will do 150 to 200 miles a week.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Such as I would say our local or competitive elite, we'll usually do about 90 to 120 miles a week.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say more of your amateur, your beginner runner is usually most beginner runners are people that are doing marathons to try to get the Boston marathon time.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're usually doing about 70 to 60 miles a week to trying to qualify for Boston.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then your beginner runner, if you're building a beginner marathon plan, would probably about be 55 to probably about 40 miles a week because you just want them to stay healthy to get over to that line.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's different thresholds of levels of um, I would say, intensity that you got to build to be able to achieve.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And is that the same way that how you have uh focused at your marathon training?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays I would say yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would say when I first started, um no, you kind of just wing in it, you follow, you know, you touch on this beautifully and elegantly.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say, like, there's so much noise out there that you know, I followed plans, I went online and did all that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: But nowadays, um, you know, I've done research.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I even I uh last year I became a certified coach, not to coach, but just because I wanted the insight and it was something a passion.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I learned from there, and more that rabbit hole has grown into learning about the Kipchogis, the different countries and how they train.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even on this podcast, asking different types of level runners how they train.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I say that to say, like, yeah, it's evolved now because, for example, I I recently looked up, or I should say beginning of the year, like your average runner for Boston, I believe the statistic was 66 uh miles per week was the average.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, some do higher, some do a little bit lower, but it's somewhere gonna be in that ballpark and not much variation.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and I have a lot of friends who are newer runners or people who I've coached, and you know, depending on time work commitments and whatnot, and their goals, like you mentioned, they might be in the 40 range, 30, 40 range.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it really depends.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: But what I do see consistently, and you touched on this, is depending on that level of runner, that mileage is somewhere in a ballpark.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sub-elite's gonna be in close to 100 or some even 100.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've noticed Europe does a little bit different depending on, okay, maybe I'm just like a like a three, three and a half hour, and not to put anyone in a box, but there's some some consistencies that happen within those times.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like your your average 330 is gonna be somewhere in the 50, 60, where versus your sub three is gonna be in the 70s, 80s, you know, and then it keeps going up and up and up.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the really fast are gonna have high mileage.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's almost oh I've there out there are outliers, but I've seen very few who are doing and knocking on that door of sub-elite or or are sub-elite or elite that aren't doing high mileage.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different, there's there's different ways of training, but uh it just counts on the individual and the athlete.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's there's there's a program that's called the Hansen program where they don't do long runs, they do more threshold and intensities.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, for example, instead of just doing your traditional long run, and what the thing is about a traditional long run is the long run is to be able to build um build more heloglobin and build more blood cells.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, for example, you've gone through a whole week of training where you've broken your body down.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what the long run is meant to do, the long run is not meant to be as a time trial, it's not meant to be as an intensity.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: The long run is meant to be as to learning to run tired while running comfortable, and so that's why a lot of people will preach, especially all the elite people, uh, the people that have ran marathons, saying the most important run out of your whole training cycle is the long run.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not your tempos, it's not your fartlicks, it's not your two-day runs.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: It is actually your long run, because the long run is mostly teaching your body, but also teaching your muscle fibers to be able to endure that distance for a long period of time.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to be on your feet for about three hours, being on your feet about two hours, learning how to be uncomfortable, to be able to go the distance.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't have that long run in the bank and you don't have any long runs in your in your uh bank on depositing, yeah, on race day, your body is not adapted to be able to go that distance.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Also, mentally, just having your mind wrapped around that to be able to feel that fatigue for a long period of time, it's a little bit difficult.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: But there's people that have done it.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot of triathletes, uh a lot of multi-sport athlete people that mostly spend that time during on a bike, even during on a swim, just to learn to get that fatigue in and all that stuff.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just there's different ways.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I would say a handsome project's a good one.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very different way of training.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll have like some traditional like 16-week programs, 14-week program training programs.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even the crazy thing is if you're really, really, really busy with work, you'll have a 10-week program.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say the most prepared you could be if you're somebody that's really focusing on the marathon and trying to be able to focus on a time goal, is usually a 14-week program.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Usually your beginners are going to do a 16-week program, but a 14-week program, if you have some base under you, you should be good.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's what you probably would do when you uh lean your athletes to that, right?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I focus more on um, like it's depends on the time, you know, they give me, right?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, I would prefer in most cases, if it were up to me, that we have 14, 16 weeks.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even better if they have some kind of base, because then you can kind of jump into things right away and like be a little bit more gradual and strategic with the plan versus someone who comes off, hey, I have marathon, I'm coming off the couch in 14, 12 weeks, and it's like, yeah, whoa.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's uh there's a higher risk for injury.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's might be no base in most cases, unfortunately, there.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you make it work as a coach, but it's not the ideal situation for one to coach, more importantly, the athlete, longevity, injury.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just really tough for you to go and let's say you try to build a base in the first four weeks, then you're left with eight weeks to try and get in.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's get some two, two and a half hour long runs in.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Where someone doesn't have that base, those are gonna be, no matter what you do, they're not gonna be, they're gonna be in threshold no matter what you do, nine out of ten times.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Or too slow because you're trying to get in that zone too, and you just don't have that fitness under you.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very difficult, it's really, really tough.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it's not really good for your health, too, if you're not training right properly, because you know, if you don't train the right way, you can actually do a lot of damage to yourself, like immune system, heart rate, all that stuff.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very important to really, really do it the right way.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, heart rate, muscle, and and some of that, I don't make it as a negative.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy this exists, but I think some of it's a knock on just the boom of running right now.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you wouldn't go into a gym and say, hey, I'm gonna go a bench 225 in four weeks.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's not gonna happen if you're coming from you.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, to your point, similar to the triathlones and whatnot, if you have some kind of fitness from somewhere else, then maybe because you have some strength for something built up before, but running.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this has been said on a few of the podcasts so far, and I've heard a lot.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: You you gotta respect the distance.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's something that the marathon requires, and and and you'll see whether you do or not, the mile 20, 18 or whatever, it'll hit you.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: It will hit you, it'll hit you.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say that's one thing that's a little bit different than any other sport is running, is whatever you put in is what you get out.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you put in the time, you get that back into your your competition, you're able to see the the results blossom.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: So agreed.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's what I love most about it, man.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: You you you put in a lot of work, you'll get a lot out of it.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um some sports you won't, some you will.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so talking about we talked about mileage, but specifically you like uh you're getting high mileage, mileage is king, it sounds like, which is good.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, in between mileage, like what is your style?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you more effort-based?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are you really into the data um threshold?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you just, hey, I just go for my runs and go off field.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious to ask you one based off that, but also you have so many years, you know, 20 plus years of running at a high elite level, that I'm sure it might be a lot different than what we're seeing or hearing, and you're doing it at a high elite level.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just mostly learning about recovery and running within yourself.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what what I did like in my early 20s, there was some workouts that I really mostly kind of did like the flow track type of thing.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what the flow track thing is, is like if you ever go into flow track and you watch team workouts, you watch team workouts, the funny thing is they're gonna say it's a workout, but it's actually a race because they race the workout.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because the reason why is because they have a cameraman, this is gonna be on social media, yeah, and they want to make it look as fast as possible.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: But reality-based, you're racing the workout, you're not doing a workout to be able to feel benefit, you're actually taking a withdrawal from your bride and beating your body up where you're not able to recover as quick enough to be able to be stay consistent.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: So my early 20s, I had to learn that way because some of the workouts, I was overdoing it and running way faster than goal pace.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: So doing like kilometers.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: If I was trying to run marathon pace, I was running 5k pace.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was way over my head, and I wasn't able to recover.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that really put a lot of strain on me when I was going to do on race day.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: If I was going to race that day, I was maybe not up to that 100% effort to be able to perform because I just spent so much racing my workouts through the week.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: So learning to run within yourself.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Also, another thing, too, is there's different ways of like competing, but also different ways of training.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, with me right now, being as a master's runner, I do majority of my workouts by myself, or I do my workouts with my high school student that I coach.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why is because my high school kid is at my level of athletic right now, such as like my other teammates that I race against or race with, they're a little bit more a higher level.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're running with somebody that's a little bit higher level, it's good to run with them for a little bit.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're overdoing it and running somebody else's pace and you're not running your pace, that's where you knock on the door of injury, you knock on the door of burning out.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it counts about training.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, the best thing to do when you're training is to really focus on your pace, focus on your effort.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if you focus on your pace and effort, you're able to run within yourself.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to run with other people as well, but it's not always good to run with the training group or to be able to run times that are really really outside your limit, but you're just going to do it because you feel good that day, promise you it will come back and bite you the next two couple days because you may have a little bit of soreness on your Achilles.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: You may have a little bit of soreness on your hip.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the overstraining efforts that come up.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to really play that game, the long game, with running within yourself, believing that if you stay consistent and you do the right stuff, not the wrong stuff, you will see results.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: The the right stuff may feel easy right now, but eventually it's designed to feel easy so you're able to compete at a higher level during race day.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now you probably have experienced that as well, right?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why I keep going, yep, like preach.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I it's funny you say that.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now that I live in Colorado and have access to I'm in Denver for those listening, and Boulder's really close and I go to Boulder a lot.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: My first year here, I was like, oh, I'm gonna take advantage of all the groups.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't run with as much people anymore, currently, right now, because in the past year the running coach certification happened.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've been delving into a lot of coaches and just like I I nerd out and love that stuff now.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's Made me realize I don't.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of I'll get there at some point.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm getting to is like I don't run with people as much for that exact reason you mentioned.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, do I want to run a threshold pace?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: At I'm not at seven-minute pace yet for a threshold, but I know if I run with that group, I'm gonna hang on and I'll do it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: But at what cost?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I might feel something, and that's not the pace I'm shooting for.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I could probably run that on race day, maybe, you know, knock on wood, that's something I'm aiming for, but it's not the time now.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great to run in group, but you also want to run the paces for the fitness you're at.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the best way to put it.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if you're constantly running with groups that are faster, I think you should for sure every now and then, but don't do it every day, which I think is what a lot of people, and I myself, I'll just speak for myself, have done.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's like, yeah, let me run with the group on my long run, on my speed day, on my threshold, and I'm always over-indexing, I'm always at threshold, I'm not running easy enough.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is not my actual pace.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna sustain on race.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, to your point, you know, I'm running 5Ks when I have a marathon.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um they don't correlate.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure, you want your turnover, but like you're not gonna run 5k pace on the marathon unless you're Kichoghi.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you're on something, but I mean, just like just like what you're talking about, like you're in you're in Colorado.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, you have less air, you gotta be able to really keep your efforts a little bit more slower than if you were at sea level.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta be able to adapt a little bit better, but also it's like also you gotta get a lot more protein because you're in a higher elevation.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing is, is like some days you just gotta get out and go run.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you can't say, Hey, I need to run this pace every day.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you're just like, I just gotta get just get out the door.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So even another thing is it's not bad running by yourself.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing to do is to run by yourself because if you're running by yourself, when you're doing a race, you may be by yourself.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta learn to run by yourself.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So like some people are always like, hey, I gotta have somebody to run with.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, it's a race, and you gotta be eventually being confident and like mentally ready to run by yourself because at the end of the day, you're going to do this for yourself.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, uh that's that's a perfect example.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I run a lot of loops lately, which people think is crazy, but uh I do it for that specific reason.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's you got to build that mindset, you know.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Out there, like I I don't know about you if you run with headphones.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't run with headphones anymore.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: I used to, but it's it's that race day.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've been on a race and my Bluetooth doesn't work.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, music cut out now, like what I'm gonna do, but I'm training in that condition and running those loops, and I'm by myself.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they yeah, you're lucky if you have a group, but you can't kind of count on that.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just a bonus if it happens on race day and and running and building that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta build a mind just as much as you build the legs, the minds, and the muscles and stuff.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's an interesting conversation.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like when I was when I took up running, um, there was no earphones back then.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: No earphones, no earbuds.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And also, um USA track and field and world athletics has rules that you cannot wear music while running.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're doing a world major marathon and you're competitive, if you're an elite runner, you cannot wear earphones at all because the thing is, is it's an unfair advantage, but also you could have, you know, it people do think people do cheat.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: People do cheat.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you had somebody on a corner that's on a race course, like scoping out for people, or having somebody on a corner saying, Hey, you can cut this corner, there's nobody here that's cheating, and also it's just as a health thing, too, because um, you know, if you're running and you have earphones and you're not listening, and somebody ends up jumping out of the crowd, or a car ends up coming by, it's just insurance stuff.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: But now, like, I see a lot of people wearing earphones to run now.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is, like these days, it's like a lot of people are wearing that to as as to get away, but also to focus on running as well.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit different, but I would say like early 2000s, late 2000s, you weren't allowed to now, but a lot of majority of races now, everybody's wearing earphones, so it's a different thing, a different mindset.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: I do listen to music when I run only to treat myself if I'm running four or five miles easy and I just want to zone out.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: Such as you know, long runs, long runs and speed workouts are always good to run just because you can be clear to think, but also it does help to have music too.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I just counts on what type what you want to do.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're using running as more as a stress reliever, it's great.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you're using it as more as like competition, competing, I would say run without music because you know your mind has to be super sharp and super ready on race day when the gun goes off and you don't have the you know, three doors down blasting in your ear.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be able to zone out and be able to focus.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for me, it just became a personal choice.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: I felt um I was more in tune with with a lot of things, my body, the foot strike.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was I've been working on cadence and stuff just to get better mechanics, and those are things that I can do when I don't have my headphones on versus like I I like to listen to high-energy music.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm focused on that, my heart rate shoots up and I can't focus on those things.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I might run faster and have fun.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's more of a personal choice.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I know there are people out there who podcast long run.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can't listen to Yeah, I mean it's just it counts on your preference.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, counts on your preference, but also it just counts on safety as well, too.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because usually when I'm running running in the park in Central Park, a lot of people are listening to music, they won't hear me come right on their side and they'll sway over, and I'll end up running into them.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Even even with cycling, cycling is even worse because you'll have somebody that's listening to music on their bike and you want to pass them and they swing right into you, and you're like, Oh, you gotta pay attention, you gotta pay attention.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's dangerous on a bike.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can only I I've ridden road bikes, I I can't do that.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: That that would scare me.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to so touching on uh we you spoke a little bit, like nutrition and and you know being strong out there, what do you do yourself for nutrition and strength training?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, knock on wood.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if you've been injured, but for 20 years of great and plus more of strength uh strong running, you're doing something right.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would say uh strength, strength training is super important.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Also, flexibility and being able to like open open the hips, you gotta have your hip flexors really flexible because you got to have that extension and also being able to extend and push and pull.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, when you're running, when you have that extension with your hip flexors, when you're up in the air, when you have a full extension, when you're falling forward, you have a better chance of hitting on the ball of your foot to be able to push off.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, as runners, to be a fast runner, you're going to be able to have to dorsiflex.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And dorsiflex is what is hitting on the ball of your foot and being able to spring off as quick as possible, to be able to push off the ground as quick as possible.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: So strain training is hugely important as a distance runner.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: And now, like a lot of a lot of elite guys, a lot of performance guys are all doing straight training.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Also, dynamic movements, dynamic movements helps the reins of motion, but also helps with uh just flexibility and being prepared to be able to put your body through strain like that.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say I do lift weights.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: I lift weights about three times a week.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: I try to lift three times a week, and then dynamic movement and dynamic training.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Dynamic movement is where you're using body range of motion, where you're doing hurdle stretches, high knees, um uh what else?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Knee bends, karaoke, those are going to help with range of motion to help you when you're doing your workout.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even on easy runs, you want to do that to help to get the legs moving, to get you out of that like sluggish uh stride.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I usually do that every day, do dynamic movements, and then weight training I do about three times a week.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: And weight training is going from working on lower body, because lower body is already warmed up, because you use your legs, go from lower body, core, and then finishing up with upper body and really working on your upper body because upper body is going to help with posture, upper body is going to help with muscle fatigue.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: Also, upper body is going to help with your running technique.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're having a good upper body movement and you're moving your arms and your posture is really good, and your legs in front of you, not under you, that's gonna be more efficient.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: If your legs are behind you, are completely under you, and you're hitting on your heel, that's where you're going to have more stress.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: You get 3% more body shock when you hit the ground.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you hit on your heel, you get 3%.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you hit on the ball of your foot, you get 1%.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we say is strength training is so important because when muscle fatigue happens, that's where you start putting stress on your body.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you start slowing down, and that's where your shoulders start getting tight.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing that gets tired is your shoulders.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: Second thing that gets tired is your arms.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Third thing that gets tired is your chest.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then after that, is your legs.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when your legs are done, you start walking.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, race is over.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to put it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: I often hear that from people when they do their first couple races, or they're in you, or it's like, oh, I'm not sure why my shoulder was uh sore.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you've been running for like 20,000, 30,000 steps, and you've been doing this the whole time.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it's gonna give, uh, and strength training comes into play at that, or or or the chess, you know, and then then you start leaning forward a little bit more than you should, and then the forearm is shot, and then it just goes down the hill from there.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just like if you look at your race day photos, like you'll see at the beginning you're nice and not so tight, you're smooth, you're smiling.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you get closer to the finish line, you may see yourself hunched over, side leaning, or you know, you're you're too tight, your arms are up here, too tight.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very, very important to definitely work on strength training, such as runners definitely need good strength training.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed, yeah.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: What's your uh food nutrition like?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know you like protein.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I do so I do a lot of protein, but usually I'm more on an Asian diet uh because I'm like I'm like married to an Asian woman, so I'm more on an Asian diet.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I eat a lot of rice, so simple carbohydrate.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: I eat a lot of rice, white rice, a lot of simple carbohydrate.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I would say vegetables, 100%, lettuce, uh, tomatoes, uh, onions, bell peppers, cucumbers, anything that's green and colorful, I definitely consume.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I definitely consume uh fish.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: I eat a lot of red meat.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just try to get in a lot of calories because as a distance runner, I mean, you burn about, I say you burn about 15 to 3,000 calories a day when you're running.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: About 1,500.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: It just counts on how the weather is.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, it's super hot in New York.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: So in New York, it's gonna be 85, and then I'm gonna go out there and do about an hour or two-hour session run.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna at least lose about you know 10% of water out of my body.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna lose like at least 10 pounds out of my body from sweating.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then also my metabolism burning what the uh glycogen that I have, all the glucose that I have.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna be at least about 1,200 to even about it, just counts on how long you're out there.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you're out there about two hours, you're burning about maybe 2,000 calories.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're out there three hours, you're about 5,000 calories, but you at least need 5,000 calories as an endurance, a competitive endurance athlete, you need about that many calories throughout the whole day because your metabolism also you need to be drinking water because you're trying to keep your core down.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing when you're in a colder climate, too.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be drinking water because the thing is your body's not going through dehydration because the thing is the temperature is cool, but you are losing water, you are burning calories.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a hotter climate, you need to be eating a lot more protein, also hydrating a lot.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: And same as in a cooler climate, you need to be eating more calories because you're trying to keep your body warmer.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: It just counts on how much effort you're doing.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I do I usually eat three times a week, and I try to get in the most calories I can.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: I do snack, I do eat grapes, I do eat apples, I do eat a lot of bread, I do uh do gels a lot.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um the gels that I do like, I do morton, and then also I do some goose, but so I usually do uh regular gel without any caffeine uh through my workout through every 30 minutes.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: So every 30 minutes I'm taking a gel through hard effort.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say probably if I'm going for a long bike ride or a long run and I'm into two-hour effort, I'll do a caffeine gel.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: A caffeine gel is just going to help uh stimulate the body, but also prevent soreness or fatigue.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna just gonna give you a little bit of a stimulant, such as a regular gel.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Regular gel is more preventing from the bonk, preventing from hitting.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I will usually take a little bit of the gel between 30 to 15 minutes.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't take the whole gel, I keep it with me, but I take a little bit of it.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't take the whole thing.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people think that you have to take the whole gel through the whole 30 minutes.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of sugar, that's a lot of calories.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: So your body is trying to perform is it's trying to keep blood and oxygen through the limbs, and if you're putting too much calories in your stomach during exercise, you're taking all that blood to your stomach.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta balance it out.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you like sip it slowly through like the next 10-15 minutes after it's open?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and I feel like a lot of people get a misunderstanding where they have to take the whole thing for the first 30 minutes, and that's where they get nauseous after that after that 30 minutes.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: So their body's like gets this bolt of sugar and their insulin levels go straight up high, and then they bonk and they get sick.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm sure anyone, everyone, including yourself, has experienced that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I have heard that more on an elite level.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but to hear it again, that's awesome to like sip it slowly, and it makes sense.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just like a kid eating a bunch of candy in one shot, insulin goes through the roof and crash.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you're running.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it just counts on what climate you're in.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in a hot climate and you have that hit you quicker, that's going your heart rate's gonna go.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: If your heart rate goes up to a certain level, you're completely done for.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, as an ad as an endurance athlete, you want to control your heart rate.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you're that's why we're talking about zones.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you always want to control your heart rate.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you control your heart rate, you're able to get better oxygen, but also you're not able to spike so quickly, so you're able to be more efficient and go longer.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious, do you do caffeine pre-runs or no caffeine?
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tea?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: No caffeine.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: I usually just mostly go on like like I would say water or orange juice or something like that.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit of sugar, let's some sugar, not so much caffeine, because caffeine kind of dehydrates you a little bit.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to stay pretty much hydrated into the run.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I usually do a simple carbohydrate, super carbohydrate, to have something in the stomach because the thing is you have enough glycogen for about 18 miles when you wake up.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, your body stores enough glycogen to get you about 18 to 16 miles without taking anything, and this is without eating for nine hours.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you have enough glycogen in your body for 18 miles.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I usually do like a banana, or I usually do a bagel, or I do like a pastry or yogurt.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's very simple carbohydrate.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy, you'll burn through it, and then throughout the run, that's when you take it.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say, I would take caffeine right at the end, because the thing is, your body is going to have enough calories and hydration during that longer period that caffeine is not going to really shock your system too much because you're mostly almost to the end of the effort or the workout.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a good one.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people drink, including myself, a lot of caffeine.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the dehydration that makes sense.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um want to ask you, um, well, actually, let me backtrack.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_01: No fasted runnings, I take it then.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Facet runnings, no fasted runnings.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: No fasted, okay.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, no fasted.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: I asked that because I feel like some elites do that, or you hear more about it, like Kenya and stuff like that.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: So always fuel your runs if you're hearing that, people.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: For those listening, fuel your runs.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the thing is, is they've done so much studies that that you have to take in liquids, you have to take in calories, you just can't fast it.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the body, just like I was telling you, you only have this so much glycogen in your body to be able to do it.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the crazy thing is, is so many people have that's why we have the wall.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's why the wall is comes into play, is because your body has stopped breaking down glycogen, and that's where you start going into your main storage where you start breaking down muscle.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about that, going into racing, any treats you treat yourself with, you know, we've talked about all the healthy stuff, but uh what's your go-to meal after a race or or every now and then you're training hard and you're like, I want to treat myself.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, always a beer, man.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's the great thing about distance running is getting the beers in and then uh just just being good to yourself, like eating whatever you want and just taking some time to take a break.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if you have a big race, it's good to give yourself a break, but also if you're in a training cycle that you're competing, it doesn't hurt to break that that cycle of like good nutrition, but have like something that just rewards yourself because you're so fit, your body's just going to absorb it, and then you're going to go on with it.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: So going out one night for partying or celebration doesn't hurt yourself at all because you'll be right back on it.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's the consistency of training, consistency of diet, consistency of sleep, that's how you win.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: The one night, the two nights, or anything like that that break up the consistency, that's not a bad thing.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_00: But over time, breaking up that consistency, having an unhealthy diet, unhealthy sleep, unhealthy training program, that's how you fail.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you get injured, that's how you burn out, that's how you quit the sport.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, for those listening, you heard it.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: Have some fun, but stay consistent.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um it won't do that bad if as long as you're on it.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're hearing it first.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, Jerry, what do you do for fun like when you're not running, training, coaching, uh working at Adidas?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you want a break.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, running is my passion, and it's and it's something that I love.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I love being active and I love being healthy, and I feel like that's our culture as athletes.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: We love to enjoy and be active and feel good about our health.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing I love to do.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, things to love to be recovery, if we talk about more recovery, is more like watching Netflix, relaxing, uh, sleeping in.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love spending time with my wife, going to go eat at good restaurants, not talking about running, uh, not talking about any sport, you know, just connecting, connecting.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I would say I really enjoy running and I really enjoy being healthy, and I feel like that's more my enjoyment, and I try not to overdo it.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have some similars, especially the food part, man.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: I swear I don't talk running when I go eat.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about what what delicious meals can we figure out?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, me and my girlfriend all the time.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's kind of our thing.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great thing because the thing is, is it we if you enjoy what you do, it's an enjoyment.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we we like it, we want it, we desire to do it, and we want to enjoy what we're doing.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask you here before I pivot on some awards.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: I saw uh New York Roadrunners.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: I saw it was the year before and then this recent year.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, talk to me about that, man.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: That seems so awesome, and early congratulations or congratulations.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to us about that.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've gotten a lot of dust collectors uh in my past.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: I got a lot of dust collectors.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: So winning the Oklahoma City Marathon, that was an awesome blast.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've won the Oklahoma City half three times, that was a blast.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've won Tulsa Marathon, I used to have the course record, ran 227, that was a blast.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um won Rochester Marathon, that was a blast.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I still have the course record, I don't remember, but they don't have the marathon anymore.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: They only have a half now.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I've ran 96 New York Roadrunner races, and yeah, 96 of them.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh also I've made a world tamp uh world world US team for uh Masters, and I made a world's team for Duathlon, and I got runner of the year for New York for USATF.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I've gotten a lot of accomplishments, but the thing is, this has been a great journey.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then running for New York Athletic Club has been amazing.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I've ran for a club for about 12 years, a New York Road Runner.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: The community, the culture, the racing has gotten even better.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: And as coming from as a as elite to a sub-elite runner to now as a master's elite runner, it's just gotten so much enjoyable.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing about running is running changes your life.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: So for example, I never knew that when I took up running back in college, that it would change my life, where I would be living in New York, working for Adidas, promoting running, talking to the new runners, talking to the competitive runners, talking to the community.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's been a blessing.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: Running is a blessing, and it's my religion.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the same as for you.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: You probably say the same thing, right?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed, man.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's running has done for you?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: Man, uh, funny enough, this is gonna be one of my questions for you, right back at you in a little bit.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, for me, man, it's been everything, but man, running was like the big difference.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this podcast started because of running, we're meeting because of this uh podcast.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've met so many friends.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, running is one of those things.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: Every time someone asks me, I feel it's one of the communities left in the world where um this is the best way I can think of it because I've thought of this question a lot.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_01: Running is one of the places where everyone in the community, no matter who you are, where you're from, people are still human, right?
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's a connection.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you go to an expo of any race, 5K, 10k, I don't care what, the bigger it is, the more you're gonna feel this.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it feels like you can vibe and talk with and get to know everyone.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: No one cares what the hell you're from, what you're doing.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, oh, let's vibe.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give you a hug.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: What'd you eat?
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go have some food.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've been able to travel uh all across the world, man, but like I've been traveling more since running.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: You got you got races across the overseas.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: So traveling, many friends, man, and the humanity in running is just incredible, man.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh running is for sure, like you said, you couldn't, I couldn't have said it better.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_01: It changed my life for sure.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I feel continue will continue to do so.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's just it brings the community together, but sport always brings the community together.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that's one great thing about sport is like it makes everybody human.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure, man.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone it's impeccable what running does, man.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it makes you healthier, you live longer, um, you know, you get more fit, you can eat more.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: If if you drink, you can drink and be okay.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's an amazing thing, this thing.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: I probably wouldn't have never moved to your point.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: You said New York, I probably would have never moved to Colorado if it weren't for running, because I didn't know much about Colorado before running.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, on that, what's what's your favorite race, or if you can't name one, because there's been so many, what's some of your favorite races you've done?
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just say me and you both have this in common.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'd have to say New York.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: New York.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that's my favorite race.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's my best race.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've I mean, I've done races over in Asia, I've done races over, I did the Mexico Marathon last year.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've done races everywhere, but my favorite race is New York because it's the community, it's the city, the city comes out for the public, comes out for the community.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so amazing.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much fun.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like you run your best there.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: You definitely run your best.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say probably my second favorite race is probably Oklahoma City Memorial Marathon because we're running for something bigger than us.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually running for the uh bombing that happened in 1995.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: So huge race.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great one to do.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: They had about uh 20,000 people showed up this year to do it.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you guys are anybody that wants to run a local marathon that has meaning that's not too expensive, go run Oklahoma City.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's the last week of April.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say Oklahoma City and New York are my favorite.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh agreed.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: For now, I mean I'll see.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have more races to do.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm more in my beginner phase of marathon, but uh New York still, I I think it's gonna be up there a while.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I said, man, you feel like an Olympian, uh, regardless of where where you're at.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the the vibe and energy is is freaking insane.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a great event, and it's just it's a perfect time of the year, too, cuz it's always in fall, and the best time to come to New York is the fall time.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, agreed.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, it's not uh hot.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's not gonna be the cold winter of January yet.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect timing, you know, sweater maybe, or maybe not sweater, but you're gonna feel great.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Jerry, what's I know you touched on it, you got New York later in the fall, but what's next for you?
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So trying to get a title for the New York City Marathon, and then Cross Country Worlds is going to be in Florida next year for uh for World's Cross Country.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm hopefully making a master's team.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So just growing my master's career and being stronger, and then hopefully maybe do some triathlons next year as well.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, and just keep keep on hammering, keep enjoying the sport.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: How about you?
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I have Indy in November.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's a good marathon.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_01: The week before you or after you?
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: New York is the first weekend, correct?
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so right around the same time.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's November 5th, 6th for Indy.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I have Indy coming up.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, almost recovered from an injury I have now, and uh it's summer here too.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: The difference of Colorado, I'll tell you.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you've ever been up here, well, I invite you to be up here.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get the heat, but we're not gonna get the humidity.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I can't tell you which is worse yet because I've lived both in Florida and New York, and that humidity is atrocious.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it's brutal in Florida.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, home is home.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: New York is always gonna be home for me.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: But that said, like the humidity and altitude, man, here is it's it's something.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there's not much shade.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, I'm looking forward to doing that, and and the goal is definitely a PR only because uh some of the things we alluded to in this episode I want to start doing, which is definitely more mileage, and I'm getting up there.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some some new training philosophies I've kind of adapted that I want to test out for myself first, and then you know, eventually to like some athletes.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh looking forward to a fun time indie, nice flat course, man, great weather.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no hills, no hills.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm doing it with some friends and coaching some people there too.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So just having fun with running, man, similar to you.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm already even looking at like next year.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm focused on indie, but with these races filling up so quickly, some international races, it doesn't have to be a major at this point, just the way things are going.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: But some races next year, um, maybe some cycling as well.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have friends who do Ironmans as well, too, and they keep trying to get me into it.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm in my running phase for now.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Get get that running phase in.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: You could do it.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to get, I don't know if I'll ever get to your times, but I do want to get a lot faster.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and now that we're acquainted, I might ping you for some ideas here and there if that's okay.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would love that.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would love that.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for everyone listening, uh, thank you for tuning in.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you, Jerry, for hopping on.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this has been the People Run Podcast, man.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of gems dropped on this one, man.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, check out Jerry.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna share his uh socials and everything on this podcast description.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you liked it, um, comment, give us a rating.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let us know what you thought of it.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, everyone.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: This has been the People Run Podcast.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.