Latest / She's On The Money / Power of Attorney: Who, what when where and how

Transcript

Power of Attorney: Who, what when where and how · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
0:23
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
0:26
Speaker 2: for millennials who want financial freedom. Today we are talking
0:30
Speaker 2: about power of attorneys, which, yes, sounds a little jargony
0:35
Speaker 2: and intimidating, sounds fancy, real fancy, It does sound fancy.
0:40
Speaker 2: By the end of this episode, we promise you'll know
0:43
Speaker 2: exactly what a power of attorney is, why they're so
0:46
Speaker 2: very important, and what happens if you don't have one.
0:51
Speaker 2: My name is Georgia King, and joining me to help
0:53
Speaker 2: shed a little light on what seems like a rather complex,
0:57
Speaker 2: slash dry topic is, of course, financial as a victoria
1:01
Speaker 2: divine fee. Let's start with the basics.
1:04
Speaker 3: Is pretty dry, That is basic.
1:07
Speaker 2: Let's be real, ah, what is the power of attorney?
1:11
Speaker 1: All right?
1:11
Speaker 3: So a power of attorney is a legal document. I
1:14
Speaker 3: told you it was dry. But that legal document allows
1:18
Speaker 3: a chosen person to make decisions and act on behalf
1:21
Speaker 3: of you, a power of attorney. It could be put
1:24
Speaker 3: in place for lots of different reasons. It could be
1:26
Speaker 3: put in place for an aging or an ill person
1:28
Speaker 3: who needs assistance, maybe because they don't have the ability
1:31
Speaker 3: to make their own decisions. So think maybe Alzheimer's or
1:34
Speaker 3: something along those lines where you go, ooh, you're going
1:37
Speaker 3: to be significantly compromised when making decisions on your own.
1:41
Speaker 3: Less dramatically, they might actually be put in place if
1:44
Speaker 3: you need to go overseas really unexpectedly and you need
1:46
Speaker 3: someone to look after your affairs. It doesn't mean you
1:49
Speaker 3: have absolutely no control though that's a massive misconception. You
1:53
Speaker 3: can still manage your assets and your decisions while your
1:55
Speaker 3: power of attorney can do what you have authorized them
1:58
Speaker 3: to do. So there's lots of different ways that you can,
2:01
Speaker 3: I guess give them power. It's not an all or
2:03
Speaker 3: nothing situation. It is also worth noting though, g. The
2:07
Speaker 3: person you choose to look after your affairs is called
2:10
Speaker 3: the attorney, and they have to agree to act on
2:13
Speaker 3: your behalf. You can't just put that on them, like
2:15
Speaker 3: I can't just turn around one day and be like,
2:16
Speaker 3: g G, you're my power of attorney. Every single decision
2:20
Speaker 3: your responsibility. Now by that we've actually have this, yeah,
2:23
Speaker 3: you have to consent to that. You would have to
2:25
Speaker 3: sign the documentation and go through that process.
2:27
Speaker 2: Interesting, and we will talk about how to choose a
2:30
Speaker 2: power of attorney soon. So maybe I would be the
2:32
Speaker 2: dream candidate to be yours fee, but we will if.
2:35
Speaker 3: There like a matchmaking process that we can go through
2:38
Speaker 3: a blind your dream attorney, like it's better than.
2:41
Speaker 2: The Bachelor exactly. Lord knows, that's getting maybe very true. Okay,
2:47
Speaker 2: So when I was doing a little bit of reading
2:49
Speaker 2: before the show, thanks becoming prepared girl. Well, I always do.
2:53
Speaker 2: I like to, you know, kind of know what I'm
2:55
Speaker 2: talking about the Google. So when I googled power of attorney,
3:00
Speaker 2: there was a lot of kind of different stuff that
3:03
Speaker 2: came up, and it would seem that there's more than
3:04
Speaker 2: just one type of power of attorney. Can you kind
3:07
Speaker 2: of run us through what the deal is?
3:10
Speaker 3: Not many, if any? Actually that reference is completely irrelevant
3:14
Speaker 3: and I'm sure Sam's not going to cut it out.
3:16
Speaker 3: But Gking, you are absolutely correct. There are a number
3:19
Speaker 3: of different types of attorney. General power of attorneys, enduring
3:23
Speaker 3: power of attorneys, and medical power of attorneys are the
3:26
Speaker 3: three main power of attorneys here in Victoria. It does
3:29
Speaker 3: vary slightly from state to state, but this conversation should
3:33
Speaker 3: give you a really good base level understanding. So first
3:36
Speaker 3: things first, we've got medical power of attorney. This allows
3:39
Speaker 3: your attorney the power to make medical decisions on your
3:42
Speaker 3: behalf if you're unable to. However, it doesn't extend at
3:47
Speaker 3: all to any other decisions like where you live or
3:50
Speaker 3: what happens to your finances. The next is a general
3:53
Speaker 3: power of attorney, and this grants somebody else the ability
3:57
Speaker 3: to make financial and legal decisions on your behalf, so
4:00
Speaker 3: again not medical power of attorney. Commonly, people would arrange
4:05
Speaker 3: this if they're gonna move overseas and they need someone
4:07
Speaker 3: to look after their assets or the house or something
4:09
Speaker 3: while they're away. However, a general power of attorney does
4:13
Speaker 3: collapse as soon as you lose the ability to make
4:16
Speaker 3: your own decisions. So if you've lost your ability to
4:19
Speaker 3: make a decision, they don't get it when you're not
4:22
Speaker 3: in a situation where you can just make your own
4:25
Speaker 3: educated decisions on a situation. So I feel like it's
4:28
Speaker 3: really important to understand that that exists. However, an enduring
4:32
Speaker 3: power of attorney. That's where the power of attorney actually
4:36
Speaker 3: continues on if you find yourself in a position where
4:38
Speaker 3: you're unable to make your own decisions when it comes
4:41
Speaker 3: to financial and legal matters. So obviously we have medical
4:45
Speaker 3: that's sitting over there. Then we have a power of attorney,
4:48
Speaker 3: a general and an enduring, and you're able to make
4:50
Speaker 3: the same decisions with a general and and enduring, but
4:53
Speaker 3: one is going to cease if you become injured or
4:55
Speaker 3: unable to make those decisions. Does that make sense?
4:58
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So basically in if during endures after the fact,
5:03
Speaker 2: when you can no longer make your own decisions, and
5:05
Speaker 2: general stops that when you reach that point, V That
5:09
Speaker 2: leads me to my next question, which is when does
5:12
Speaker 2: a power of attorney come into effect? I guess it's
5:15
Speaker 2: going to be different depending on which of the above
5:17
Speaker 2: we're talking about, But look.
5:19
Speaker 3: It is so different, and it is a fickle conversation
5:23
Speaker 3: to have, but essentially you choose. It's completely up to you.
5:26
Speaker 3: It can be immediate, like you can nominate it and
5:29
Speaker 3: then tomorrow, gee, you could take over all my affairs.
5:31
Speaker 3: Should you consent to that, or you can nominate when
5:34
Speaker 3: that happens, and you can request that. A power of
5:37
Speaker 3: attorney comes into effect after an event or a particular
5:41
Speaker 3: date or a particular occurrence like no longer having the
5:44
Speaker 3: ability to make your own decisions. So this is a
5:47
Speaker 3: conversation that I've historically had with clients who have parents
5:50
Speaker 3: who do have really early onset dementia or do have
5:54
Speaker 3: things where they completely have the ability still to make
5:56
Speaker 3: their own decisions, and they want to set things up
5:59
Speaker 3: so that they're completely in control. And it's kind of
6:01
Speaker 3: a way of really continuing that control when you're in
6:04
Speaker 3: a position where you're not in control of your own
6:06
Speaker 3: personal body. If that you can set the rules, like
6:09
Speaker 3: you could set it up and say, all right, well,
6:11
Speaker 3: these are the things that my power of attorney has
6:13
Speaker 3: the ability to do. This is what I want them
6:16
Speaker 3: to act on. This is how I want my affairs
6:17
Speaker 3: to fall out, And George, you're in control of making
6:20
Speaker 3: sure that happens. It's not necessarily saying, hey, George, so
6:24
Speaker 3: when my dementia completely sets in and I'm unable to
6:26
Speaker 3: make decisions anymore for myself, free for all, you can
6:30
Speaker 3: do whatever you think is appropriate. Like I'm in the
6:33
Speaker 3: driver's seat, I get to make the rules and make
6:35
Speaker 3: the strategies, and it can be different for everybody. However,
6:39
Speaker 3: it does need to be outlined in your power of
6:41
Speaker 3: attorney forms, which we will get to and I won't
6:44
Speaker 3: get into a deep dive right now, Okay, sorry, I'll
6:47
Speaker 3: get ahead and you'll be like the flow.
6:50
Speaker 2: Don this the Can you have more than one power
6:54
Speaker 2: of attorney? Gee?
6:55
Speaker 3: How many do you want?
6:57
Speaker 2: Well, you know, maybe a couple. Don't want to upset
6:59
Speaker 2: an of my friends, leave them out.
7:01
Speaker 3: You can have a few. There's basically no limit. You
7:04
Speaker 3: could have as many power of attorneys as you want
7:07
Speaker 3: to have. However, many people believe less is probably the
7:11
Speaker 3: preferred option, so it can allow for more quote seamless
7:14
Speaker 3: decision makings I've written down here, and it can reduce
7:18
Speaker 3: the potential for conflict in saying that. Gee, some people
7:21
Speaker 3: do feel safer knowing that their affairs aren't just in
7:23
Speaker 3: the hands of one person. It is such a personal decision.
7:27
Speaker 3: And a good example of this is kids. So say
7:30
Speaker 3: you're in a position where you can no longer make decisions.
7:33
Speaker 3: But Aunt Sarah is really good with the kids. You
7:36
Speaker 3: adore her, The kids adore her.
7:38
Speaker 2: She's like the og.
7:39
Speaker 3: Aren't you want the kids to go live with her?
7:42
Speaker 3: God damn, Sarah, you are so bad with money. We
7:45
Speaker 3: have a lot of it. So you can split those
7:48
Speaker 3: true things up right, and Sarah could be in charge
7:50
Speaker 3: of the kids and making decisions about their medically, except
7:53
Speaker 3: she's not in charge of the finances because maybe you
7:56
Speaker 3: just don't You don't want to put that on her
7:58
Speaker 3: as well, and you might not tell Sarah that's the case.
8:00
Speaker 3: But splitting it up could give you a bit more
8:03
Speaker 3: peace of mind. If you're electing multiple people, though, you
8:07
Speaker 3: need to make sure they are relatively mature and can
8:10
Speaker 3: be trusted to work cooperatively if that word wants to gee,
8:15
Speaker 3: I'm not even going to fix it if they can
8:17
Speaker 3: work together on your behalf. So I think it's really
8:20
Speaker 3: really important to pick people that you do trust. But again,
8:23
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean you trust them in all aspects of life.
8:25
Speaker 3: Maybe you adore them to look after your kids or
8:28
Speaker 3: you personally because they are the best person to make
8:31
Speaker 3: that decision, because when it comes to power of attorney,
8:34
Speaker 3: it's not little things. If you don't have medical power
8:36
Speaker 3: of attorney. I don't mean to get real morbid, real quickj.
8:40
Speaker 3: But one of the decisions might be about life support,
8:42
Speaker 3: and maybe that person is the right person to make
8:45
Speaker 3: that really deep and personal decision that's in your personal
8:48
Speaker 3: best interests. But you're like, oh, they don't know anything
8:50
Speaker 3: about finances and paying the bills, and I wouldn't trust
8:53
Speaker 3: them because they've had a gambling addiction in the past.
8:55
Speaker 3: But they're my best friend and they know what's best
8:57
Speaker 3: for me, do you know what I mean? Like, just
8:59
Speaker 3: because someone is the perfect person for that might not
9:01
Speaker 3: mean they're the perfect person for absolutely every aspect. That's okay,
9:05
Speaker 3: that's why we have the ability to break it up.
9:07
Speaker 2: Gotcha? Okay, that makes sense. So when I was thinking
9:11
Speaker 2: about today's topic and kind of coming to understand what
9:15
Speaker 2: a power of attorney actually is, naturally, my mind kind
9:18
Speaker 2: of went to Britney's spears and her naturally but her
9:23
Speaker 2: conservativeship because it's kind of a similar thing, but it's
9:27
Speaker 2: obviously not the same. Can you kind of talk us
9:29
Speaker 2: through the differences and what a conservativeship is compared to
9:32
Speaker 2: a power of attorney?
9:33
Speaker 3: So first things first, g Australia doesn't have conservative ships,
9:37
Speaker 3: not a thing. We don't call them that, but instead
9:40
Speaker 3: we actually have what's called guardianship or financial management laws
9:44
Speaker 3: for each state and territory. Again completely different, but it
9:47
Speaker 3: does come into that realm of power of attorney, so
9:49
Speaker 3: we could look at them semi similarly. But when we're
9:52
Speaker 3: talking about a conservativeship, because that's something we know, right, Like,
9:55
Speaker 3: we've all hopefully followed this case pretty deeply and I
9:59
Speaker 3: found it in ridibly interesting over the last few years
10:02
Speaker 3: to see how it's falling out. A conservative ship is
10:05
Speaker 3: much more drastic of an option than a power of attorney.
10:08
Speaker 3: So a conservativeship, like what Brittany lived under for years
10:12
Speaker 3: and years, is a court ordered arrangement which pretty much
10:15
Speaker 3: strips that person of the ability to make any decisions
10:18
Speaker 3: on their own literally, financially, medically, like Brittany wasn't allowed
10:23
Speaker 3: to come off birth control because the conservative ship said that, no,
10:27
Speaker 3: you can't come off it, Like, that's.
10:28
Speaker 2: A bit cooked.
10:29
Speaker 3: So she also wasn't allowed to get married, even though
10:32
Speaker 3: she wanted to get married, and that was something that
10:34
Speaker 3: she you know, obviously had expressed that she wanted historically.
10:38
Speaker 3: To me, there's a lot in that. Again, just want
10:41
Speaker 3: to reiterate that doesn't exist in Australia, but someone else
10:44
Speaker 3: essentially chooses how they live, how their money is spent,
10:47
Speaker 3: and how their assets are controlled, and multiple other personal decisions.
10:51
Speaker 3: In saying that, I don't want to scare people off
10:53
Speaker 3: and think that if you're setting this up, it's a
10:55
Speaker 3: conservative ship, a power of attorney is elected by you personally,
10:59
Speaker 3: and they only ever come into effect when required at
11:02
Speaker 3: a time decided by you, which was not the case
11:05
Speaker 3: for Britney at all in any way, shape or form.
11:07
Speaker 3: Like she didn't have any choice over anything happening to her.
11:11
Speaker 2: So horrible, isn't it? That whole thing?
11:14
Speaker 3: Honestly, I cannot believe that that was a thing or
11:18
Speaker 3: that even happened. Like, it blows my mind that someone's
11:22
Speaker 3: rights can be stripped of them in that way. And
11:25
Speaker 3: I mean, there's probably a lot to that story, George
11:27
Speaker 3: that we don't understand, and that hasn't made it of
11:30
Speaker 3: that other stuff, but oh my gosh, it actually terrifies me.
11:33
Speaker 3: But no, that's not what a power of attorney is
11:35
Speaker 3: here in Australia. A good call out or question or link.
11:38
Speaker 2: Th thank you. Yeah, it just kind of came to mind.
11:42
Speaker 2: But it's good to know that they are completely different
11:44
Speaker 2: and that a power of attorney is a more positive
11:46
Speaker 2: option and it is a decision you're making rather than
11:49
Speaker 2: having any of your decisions strictural you How do you
11:53
Speaker 2: know who to choose as your power of attorney? You
11:56
Speaker 2: said before, they need to be mature, they need to
11:59
Speaker 2: probably find out. If they're looking after your finances, they
12:02
Speaker 2: need to love you, if they're looking after you medically.
12:04
Speaker 2: How do we choose? I agree, it's kind of like
12:07
Speaker 2: a dating profile. You're like, they have to be six
12:09
Speaker 2: foot four. No, I mean Steve's not even six foot four,
12:13
Speaker 2: so it clearly wasn't in my Tinder profile. But moving on,
12:17
Speaker 2: how to choose someone? Obviously, it's completely up to personal preference.
12:21
Speaker 2: You need to, George, choose somebody that you really trust,
12:24
Speaker 2: you believe would always act in your best interests. Which, oh,
12:29
Speaker 2: I sound like a really negative nancy here. It's harder
12:33
Speaker 2: done than it is said. Like it's easy to say, Gee,
12:35
Speaker 2: pick someone that has your best interests at heart. You're like, okay,
12:38
Speaker 2: no problems, but like, oh do they like?
12:41
Speaker 1: So?
12:41
Speaker 3: Friendships sometimes change or fizzle out, or you know, become
12:45
Speaker 3: something that they weren't. So I think it's really important
12:48
Speaker 3: in the same way that I view relationships like personal relationships,
12:51
Speaker 3: like what happens if we get a divorce? Like, as
12:54
Speaker 3: you know, g I'm very excited. I'm planning my wedding,
12:57
Speaker 3: which is far more expensive than I had ever anticipated.
13:00
Speaker 3: But Steve and I, I would say madly in love
13:03
Speaker 3: like I'm obsessed with him and I hope he's obsessed
13:05
Speaker 3: with me, and I can't see a reality for us
13:08
Speaker 3: where we're not together. But that doesn't mean I haven't
13:11
Speaker 3: structured our lives in a way that we understand what
13:14
Speaker 3: would happen if that happened. So I think that we
13:16
Speaker 3: need to sometimes be a little bit dramatic and be
13:19
Speaker 3: like Steve, what happens if we get a divorce, what
13:21
Speaker 3: happens if we separate? And I mean we haven't had kids,
13:24
Speaker 3: but we do have a dog. We've even had that
13:26
Speaker 3: conversation of what happens to our pets, what happens to
13:29
Speaker 3: our house, what would be the outcome? Because I never
13:33
Speaker 3: like living in Limbon. It's not you having a negative
13:35
Speaker 3: conversation because you're like, oh, like V said too, this
13:38
Speaker 3: feels really flat. It's actually about empowering you so that
13:41
Speaker 3: you always know what's going to happen in your options.
13:44
Speaker 3: But again, picking somebody that you trust and hopefully that
13:47
Speaker 3: will always always always act in your best interests. Legally,
13:50
Speaker 3: they do have to be over the age of eighteen,
13:53
Speaker 3: can be a family member, could be a friend, could
13:56
Speaker 3: be anybody. Some people pick their accountants if it's a
13:58
Speaker 3: financial power of attorney. Some people pick their lawyers. It
14:01
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily have to be a friend or family member.
14:04
Speaker 3: If you don't trust them, you can actually nominate a professional,
14:07
Speaker 3: which is kind of cool to understand and know. They
14:10
Speaker 3: do have to want to do it and they do
14:12
Speaker 3: have to accept that. As I said before, Gee can't
14:15
Speaker 3: just force it on you. Also really important to consider
14:18
Speaker 3: the impacts this could have on your family. If you
14:21
Speaker 3: choose this individual, couldn't have any negative consequences. So an
14:25
Speaker 3: example here is you, George, You're a bit older, you've
14:29
Speaker 3: been married once, You've got a new wife, George, and
14:33
Speaker 3: that new wife does not get along with your kids.
14:36
Speaker 3: Are you going to nominate your wife as your power
14:39
Speaker 3: of attorney? Is that something that if you're not there
14:42
Speaker 3: to keep the peace? Is that a good idea? I
14:44
Speaker 3: can't tell you the right or wrong answer in that situation.
14:47
Speaker 3: It's just something you have to think about, and you
14:50
Speaker 3: know there's no right or wrong answer. But we do
14:52
Speaker 3: want to make sure that we are picking somebody that's
14:54
Speaker 3: always going to have your best interests at heart. I
14:56
Speaker 3: can't harp on about that the most, and then I'd
15:00
Speaker 3: be looking for someone g who's pretty organized and able.
15:02
Speaker 3: There's a lot of responsibility when it comes to being
15:04
Speaker 3: a power of attorney. So gee, I reckon you'd want
15:07
Speaker 3: to choose someone who's equipped as well as trustworthy.
15:09
Speaker 2: But that's just me, the dream combo, but the dream
15:13
Speaker 2: combo which I am not a turnative, trust me but equipped. No.
15:18
Speaker 3: I can't even get a whole podcast out without stuttering
15:21
Speaker 3: over my words today. G.
15:22
Speaker 2: What do you do, though, be in all seriousness, if
15:25
Speaker 2: you don't have anyone in your life who is reliable
15:27
Speaker 2: and trustworthy that you would trust with all of your
15:30
Speaker 2: affairs and assets, can you? I guess before you said
15:34
Speaker 2: you could choose an accountant or a lawyer. But what
15:36
Speaker 2: do you do if you don't have an accountant or
15:37
Speaker 2: a lawyer? G.
15:39
Speaker 3: You're right, I did touch on this before. It obviously
15:41
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be a friend or a family member.
15:44
Speaker 3: And if you don't have an accountant that you want
15:46
Speaker 3: to nominate, or financial advisor hint, hint, nudge, nudge, or
15:50
Speaker 3: a lawyer that you really want to elect, then you
15:52
Speaker 3: can actually elect that the public trustee looks after you.
15:55
Speaker 3: So public trustee is a government department, and each state
15:58
Speaker 3: and territory actually has their own and they offer heaps
16:01
Speaker 3: of different services related to power of attorneys, the management
16:04
Speaker 3: of trust funds and deceased estates and wills and stuff
16:07
Speaker 3: like that. You can literally nominate them and they will
16:09
Speaker 3: look after it in line with what you want and
16:12
Speaker 3: what your expectations are. And that's kind of cool. I mean,
16:14
Speaker 3: it is a lot less personal. But sometimes even if
16:17
Speaker 3: you do have a friend or a family member that
16:18
Speaker 3: you trust, maybe you don't want them looking after that
16:21
Speaker 3: and fulfilling your wishes. It is completely up to you.
16:24
Speaker 2: Interesting v Let's prespause there, but we will be back
16:28
Speaker 2: after a very short break to discuss the process of
16:31
Speaker 2: making a power of attorney, and we'll be chatting about
16:34
Speaker 2: what happens if someone you love chooses a power of
16:37
Speaker 2: attorney that you disagree with. Don't go anywhere, choose to
16:41
Speaker 2: see straight back into it. Vikid, No, not Vickid.
16:45
Speaker 3: How long am I going to have to rally against
16:48
Speaker 3: the name VICKI d till I feel heard in this relationship?
16:52
Speaker 2: Algia, mate, you need to prove loves it. It's who
16:55
Speaker 2: loves Everyone calls you Vickid, vd V, the community, everyone,
17:00
Speaker 2: we all talk about it.
17:01
Speaker 3: Fine, you're not at least you're talking about, Yeah, exact.
17:05
Speaker 3: I guess that's.
17:08
Speaker 2: So what would happen if you had an accident? I
17:12
Speaker 2: don't know what would happen, Jase, So you don't be
17:16
Speaker 2: cheeky if you had an accident and you couldn't make
17:20
Speaker 2: your own decisions that you hadn't elected a power of attorney.
17:25
Speaker 2: So maybe you're like quite young and you just hadn't
17:27
Speaker 2: thought about this like you were, well, I mean, you've
17:29
Speaker 2: probably thought about it, but I haven't thought about it.
17:32
Speaker 3: So what you don't have a power of attorney? I mean, yeah,
17:36
Speaker 3: I know I really should organize that, because I do
17:38
Speaker 3: think it's incredibly important. But it's like the plumber who
17:41
Speaker 3: always has a leaky tap, Like you know, I just
17:43
Speaker 3: haven't sorted everything out yet, but it is at the
17:46
Speaker 3: forefront of my mind. When were putting this episode together,
17:48
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, Lordie, like, I probably do want
17:51
Speaker 3: to put that together and organize all of that, because
17:54
Speaker 3: if you do have an accident and you haven't allocated
17:57
Speaker 3: or you know, highlighted a power of attorney and set
17:59
Speaker 3: that up, you don't have actually get to choose the
18:01
Speaker 3: person who is going to be making the decisions on
18:03
Speaker 3: your behalf, which of course is not ideal. The other
18:06
Speaker 3: possible negative is that you could be making things a
18:08
Speaker 3: little bit more challenging for friends and family who are
18:10
Speaker 3: trying really hard to figure out what's best for you.
18:13
Speaker 3: So having a power of attorney actually streamlines that process,
18:16
Speaker 3: and he's likely to reduce the potential for any family
18:18
Speaker 3: conflicts that might arise from you being in an accident.
18:22
Speaker 3: In Victoria, Vcat could potentially get involved and appoint someone
18:25
Speaker 3: to help you. But again, if you've been in an
18:28
Speaker 3: accident and you're not in a situation to make your
18:31
Speaker 3: own decisions, are you in a situation where you would
18:35
Speaker 3: need to nominate someone, or are you in a situation
18:37
Speaker 3: where you're like, all right, well, I don't have that,
18:40
Speaker 3: but my parents would make that decision, and my parents
18:42
Speaker 3: and my partner get along really well and they would
18:44
Speaker 3: work it out. Or I don't mean to do the
18:47
Speaker 3: morbid thing again, but it's my job as a financial
18:49
Speaker 3: advisor to jump to the worst case scenarios. You're in
18:53
Speaker 3: a same sex relationship, your parents don't agree, your parents
18:56
Speaker 3: don't like your partner. You're on life support, your parents
19:00
Speaker 3: have decided that your partner and you you don't live together,
19:03
Speaker 3: so you're not de facto, so your partner doesn't actually
19:06
Speaker 3: have any rights. They don't want your partner to come
19:08
Speaker 3: and see you. Are you okay with that situation. I'm
19:11
Speaker 3: not saying that that's your situation, George, but it is
19:14
Speaker 3: the situation for some people. And if you're in that situation,
19:19
Speaker 3: you might love your parents deeply, but maybe in that situation,
19:22
Speaker 3: because of their biases or their upbringing, or you know,
19:25
Speaker 3: their views on the world, they're not going to operate
19:28
Speaker 3: in the best possible way for you. And I think
19:30
Speaker 3: that that's really important to take into consideration. And thankfully
19:34
Speaker 3: we live in Australia, so we all have the same
19:37
Speaker 3: rights when it comes to facto regardless of gender. However,
19:41
Speaker 3: I think it's really important to think a little bit
19:43
Speaker 3: about family politics, what that means, and how that might work,
19:48
Speaker 3: because if you don't live with your partner or you're
19:50
Speaker 3: not de facto, like there are so many things that
19:52
Speaker 3: come into play, and it can honestly be heartbreaking in
19:55
Speaker 3: a situation like that, especially where it's happening to somebody
19:58
Speaker 3: you love. You're like, I know what they would want
20:00
Speaker 3: and that's not what's currently happening, and you can't do
20:03
Speaker 3: anything about it because the person who has direct control
20:07
Speaker 3: is their parent, or it might be their partner, or
20:10
Speaker 3: it might be a family member. And you know, there's
20:13
Speaker 3: lots of different situations where this has happened. But at
20:15
Speaker 3: the end of the day, it's to protect you and
20:17
Speaker 3: your wishes at a time when you can't make your
20:20
Speaker 3: own decisions.
20:21
Speaker 2: Okay, so this leads me flawlessly actually to my next
20:25
Speaker 2: core question. What do you do if someone that you
20:29
Speaker 2: love has chosen a power of attorney but someone that
20:34
Speaker 2: you don't get along with. So, you know, in a stereotypical,
20:39
Speaker 2: like fictional novel world, I've just finished the Paper Palace
20:43
Speaker 2: and all I can think about is like family drama.
20:46
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, good, I've heard that's a great.
20:47
Speaker 2: It's so good. I love to need to borrow it.
20:51
Speaker 3: You keep on with power of attorneys, though, what were
20:53
Speaker 3: you going to say, so if you hated your stepfather
20:57
Speaker 3: or something like that, and he had all this power
21:00
Speaker 3: when your mother was unable to make her own decisions.
21:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was making decisions that you didn't agree with.
21:07
Speaker 2: Do you have any rights as a daughter or a
21:09
Speaker 2: family member to take any kind of action or do
21:11
Speaker 2: you just have to suck it up and deal with it.
21:14
Speaker 2: Look both absolutely both.
21:17
Speaker 3: So if you believe they're doing something that's absolutely in
21:19
Speaker 3: breach of their obligations or their duties, it's completely possible
21:22
Speaker 3: for you to sue them. But you can't just do
21:24
Speaker 3: that if you don't agree with the decision that they've made.
21:27
Speaker 3: So if they've made a decision and it's actually in
21:31
Speaker 3: line with their obligations and it's just a decision that
21:34
Speaker 3: you don't agree with, Like, let's give an example of
21:37
Speaker 3: painting a room red and you really wanted blue, Like,
21:39
Speaker 3: there's nothing illegal about painting it red, you didn't really
21:43
Speaker 3: like it. There's not a lot that you can do,
21:46
Speaker 3: So I think the important thing here is to have
21:48
Speaker 3: open honest conversations. If they've elected a power of attorney
21:51
Speaker 3: and it might be your partner, I think you need
21:53
Speaker 3: to have that open, honest conversation about how you feel
21:56
Speaker 3: about that and voice your concerns to them. So before
21:59
Speaker 3: that power of attorney is enforced, you get to understand
22:03
Speaker 3: why they might have made that decision and what that means.
22:06
Speaker 3: And if there are any things that you go, oh
22:08
Speaker 3: my gosh, you're catastrophizing. As much as Victoria devine. Does
22:11
Speaker 3: you go, oh my gosh, what if they xyz. That
22:15
Speaker 3: gives your partner or whoever we're talking about, the opportunity
22:18
Speaker 3: to say, well, actually, Georgia, in that situation, i'd want this,
22:20
Speaker 3: and you go, okay, cool. Can you put that into
22:23
Speaker 3: the power of attorney so that your wishes are really
22:25
Speaker 3: well known if you've got any concerns, so you can
22:28
Speaker 3: often and I don't mean get around it as in,
22:30
Speaker 3: you know, circumvent the situation. But if there's something that
22:32
Speaker 3: you're super worried about happening, you can talk to that
22:35
Speaker 3: person and say, super worried in this event this is
22:38
Speaker 3: going to happen. Can we make sure that that's written
22:41
Speaker 3: in your power of attorney so it can't happen? And
22:43
Speaker 3: your partner or whoever this might be might go, yeah, okay,
22:46
Speaker 3: no problems. I just want you to have peace of
22:48
Speaker 3: mind as well. However, a better option than just being
22:51
Speaker 3: really dramatic and suing someone if you're in Victoria, would
22:54
Speaker 3: be to reach out and get in contact with VCAT
22:57
Speaker 3: and hear their advice to hopefully resolve that is. Obviously,
23:01
Speaker 3: you can get in touch with your state's equivalent for
23:03
Speaker 3: the same service However, I'm not going to list up
23:06
Speaker 3: them all. You can just look them up on Google.
23:08
Speaker 3: I promise it is super simple. But basically, if someone's
23:11
Speaker 3: doing the wrong thing, there can be consequences. Like this
23:14
Speaker 3: is a legally binding document, there are legal consequences to
23:17
Speaker 3: doing the wrong thing. But if they're not, it's not
23:20
Speaker 3: very easy to take action. And that's why I really
23:22
Speaker 3: recommend having conversations and being honest about your wishes and
23:26
Speaker 3: what you want, especially if you know that someone has
23:29
Speaker 3: a power of attorney that you don't particularly fancy.
23:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, gosh, it's so interesting how messy things can
23:36
Speaker 2: get when it comes to affairs and finances, you know,
23:40
Speaker 2: Like it's reminded me of the conversations we've had about
23:42
Speaker 2: wills and what happens when people don't have them. It
23:45
Speaker 2: can be really scary. Yeah.
23:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got a friend whose parents went through, you know,
23:50
Speaker 3: a nasty situation where where one of them, you know,
23:53
Speaker 3: had a dad that needed a power of attorney but
23:56
Speaker 3: it hadn't been granted and their dad wasn't in control
23:58
Speaker 3: of their own body or their mind anymore and needed
24:01
Speaker 3: the best thing to be done. But their daughter, who
24:04
Speaker 3: had a drug addiction was still living with the dad
24:07
Speaker 3: because she lived with them, was granted it immediately because
24:11
Speaker 3: that was the default because they already lived together, and
24:13
Speaker 3: that absolutely well and truly was not in the best
24:16
Speaker 3: interests of that father. So I think it's a really
24:19
Speaker 3: complex situation and the best way to circumvent it dolls
24:22
Speaker 3: have these conversations early, really understand what they are and
24:25
Speaker 3: put these things in place. And that's not a luxury
24:28
Speaker 3: that is often afforded to most people because often you're
24:31
Speaker 3: only thinking about a power of attorney when you're like,
24:33
Speaker 3: oh my god, this big, massive thing happened and it's
24:37
Speaker 3: so bloody horrible and no one's thought about this what's
24:41
Speaker 3: going to happen. So it's honestly a really beautiful thing
24:45
Speaker 3: that we can have these conversations now and be like, hey, George,
24:47
Speaker 3: is this something you need to think about. You might go, nah,
24:49
Speaker 3: I'm all good for now, thanks, though, yeah, Like, I
24:52
Speaker 3: just want you to have the education to make the
24:54
Speaker 3: educated decision so that you do what's right for George,
24:58
Speaker 3: not the default. Because you didn't know there was any options,
25:01
Speaker 3: and you didn't know there was something that you needed
25:03
Speaker 3: to be doing. You hadn't even ever had the topic
25:05
Speaker 3: brought up to you.
25:06
Speaker 2: Literally, I had no idea what this was until it
25:08
Speaker 2: came up on our list of episodes to research. Sorry,
25:13
Speaker 2: no love, I feel like I've learned a lot already.
25:16
Speaker 2: Can you change your mind? If you've chosen a power
25:18
Speaker 2: of attorney and then.
25:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, you can just take it back
25:23
Speaker 3: and be like, yo, I don't want you any more.
25:25
Speaker 1: Thanks.
25:26
Speaker 3: Though, if you've appointed somebody and you're like, amore, yeah,
25:30
Speaker 3: you can kick them out. You can revoke it so
25:32
Speaker 3: long as you are mentally capable of making that decision.
25:35
Speaker 3: So first you'll need to inform the person as soon
25:38
Speaker 3: as possible and do it in writing. And that piece
25:40
Speaker 3: of documentation is called a recovation of power of attorney,
25:43
Speaker 3: so you need to tell them is it recovation, revocation, revocation?
25:49
Speaker 3: Do you know what? Leave that in two sand turns
25:52
Speaker 3: out I can't talk. But from there there are actual
25:55
Speaker 3: copies of the power of attorney document that are in
25:58
Speaker 3: possession of the attorney or the person you nominated, FYI,
26:01
Speaker 3: and they need to be returned and any organizations who
26:04
Speaker 3: have been involved need to be notified too, because often
26:06
Speaker 3: you'll tell people, hey, here's the information. This is my
26:09
Speaker 3: power of attorney. If George King contacts you, she can
26:12
Speaker 3: actually talk to you about me or my behalf because
26:14
Speaker 3: she's legally allowed to. You need to pull those And
26:17
Speaker 3: then finally, if the power of attorney was registered, it
26:20
Speaker 3: needs to be completely unregistered. So yes, you can take
26:23
Speaker 3: it back whenever you want, as long as you're mentally
26:25
Speaker 3: capable of doing so.
26:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So you can't just commit to it and
26:29
Speaker 2: then when you're not in the right state, you can't
26:31
Speaker 2: take it back because that's why it was put in place.
26:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why it was put in place. But if
26:35
Speaker 3: you're completely mentally stable and you're like g King and I,
26:39
Speaker 3: we always fight. V always talks over G SO.
26:43
Speaker 2: And vice versa. In terms of setting yourself up with one,
26:48
Speaker 2: do we need a lawyer involved, you need a financial advisor?
26:52
Speaker 2: How do we actually go about doing You.
26:55
Speaker 3: Can do a little DIY. You can quite make a
26:57
Speaker 3: power of attorney yourself. However, I would obviously always recommend
27:01
Speaker 3: getting some legal advice so that you are completely aware
27:04
Speaker 3: of all the consequences of what you are doing and
27:07
Speaker 3: to make sure that it's completely legal in a binding way.
27:10
Speaker 3: You can either get in touch with your own private
27:12
Speaker 3: lawyer or go buy the state trustee. Again, they have
27:15
Speaker 3: the ability to organize a heap of stuff for you.
27:17
Speaker 3: You don't need a private lawyer for this. But basically
27:21
Speaker 3: you need to just fill out a form which details
27:23
Speaker 3: all the info like your name, your address, the person
27:26
Speaker 3: you are going to elect as a power of attorney
27:28
Speaker 3: and the powers you want to give them. It's all
27:30
Speaker 3: pretty straightforward. Then you need to sign the form and
27:34
Speaker 3: it needs to be done in the company of two
27:36
Speaker 3: adult witnesses, one of whom needs to be a registered
27:40
Speaker 3: medical practitioner or authority to witness affidavits, which g king.
27:46
Speaker 2: Is that you I I've got hang on, so do it?
27:50
Speaker 2: Are you a doctor or you are?
27:53
Speaker 3: No, I'm an authorized person to witness an affidavit?
27:57
Speaker 2: So does that come with being an authorized financial advisor? Yeah?
28:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, fancy financial advisor perk. And it didn't used to
28:04
Speaker 3: be a fancy financial advisor perk. It used to only
28:06
Speaker 3: be extended to like lawyers and accountants and pharmacy people.
28:10
Speaker 2: No, girl, that's me interesting.
28:13
Speaker 3: I can certify your document you bring in your passport,
28:16
Speaker 3: I'll say it's a certified copy. No need to pay
28:19
Speaker 3: two dollars at the pharmacy anymore.
28:21
Speaker 2: Gking, it's handy. You're welcome. Good to know, well, money,
28:24
Speaker 2: we a line of all of us coming to you, don't. Oh,
28:27
Speaker 2: you're welcome.
28:29
Speaker 3: If ever you run into me in the shops, I
28:31
Speaker 3: really need someone to certify this copy of my driver's license.
28:35
Speaker 1: Girl, I got.
28:36
Speaker 2: You, brilliant. Okay, So with all of this in mind,
28:40
Speaker 2: be would you say that people our age all of
28:43
Speaker 2: the millennials that are currently listening, Is it something that
28:47
Speaker 2: they need to be looking at doing sooner than later. Yeah, okay, you're.
28:51
Speaker 3: Welcome, but I do think so genuinely wrap it from here.
28:54
Speaker 3: But just as I've recommended we all get our wills
28:57
Speaker 3: done when we are young, I think it's really important
29:00
Speaker 3: to do the same thing when it comes to power
29:01
Speaker 3: of attorneys, so that we can ensure that all of
29:04
Speaker 3: our hard earned assets and plans and life goals and
29:08
Speaker 3: things can stay in place with the people we want
29:11
Speaker 3: them with. Like you know, as I said, this topic
29:14
Speaker 3: can be quite morbid because at the end of the day,
29:16
Speaker 3: these things only really come into play when you are
29:18
Speaker 3: ill or you are completely incapacitated. But I just know
29:22
Speaker 3: that if I was in that situation, I don't have
29:26
Speaker 3: any control. I am very type A, so I like
29:29
Speaker 3: to control what I can and I want to know
29:33
Speaker 3: that I've set myself up with the right people around
29:35
Speaker 3: me and the right outcomes. And I've had conversations about
29:39
Speaker 3: what my expectations are and that could be things from
29:43
Speaker 3: you know, I want my parents to manage my finances
29:46
Speaker 3: and my partner to make decisions about my health all
29:49
Speaker 3: the way through to I want to make sure that
29:51
Speaker 3: if ever I am in a situation where I need
29:53
Speaker 3: to be resuscitated, I might not be. And I'm not
29:56
Speaker 3: saying that that's what I want personally, but these are
29:59
Speaker 3: the types of things that a power of attorney can
30:02
Speaker 3: help you make a decision on. Another example of that
30:05
Speaker 3: is life support. Do you want that turned off or
30:07
Speaker 3: do you not? Is that a conversation that you want
30:09
Speaker 3: to have. Is that something that you know you want
30:12
Speaker 3: to give that person the power to do and what
30:15
Speaker 3: does that mean to you? What are your boundaries on that?
30:17
Speaker 3: And I think that that puts you in the most
30:20
Speaker 3: powerful position. And also I know that this is not
30:24
Speaker 3: what the episode is about, but a power of attorney
30:27
Speaker 3: often lifts a lot of guilt from other people who
30:30
Speaker 3: are in a situation where you haven't set that up
30:33
Speaker 3: that they might harbor. So, G, if you said to me,
30:36
Speaker 3: these are my wishes, this is what I want if
30:38
Speaker 3: I'm ever in situation ab orc and I go, okay,
30:40
Speaker 3: no problems, Georgia, this is what you want. That conversation
30:44
Speaker 3: when it comes to it and we're talking to doctors
30:46
Speaker 3: and everybody's stressed and so upset, I go, no, that's
30:50
Speaker 3: what G said she wanted. We're doing what G wanted.
30:52
Speaker 3: Not Oh, I don't know. Are we're doing the right thing?
30:55
Speaker 3: Or I will talk to her parents. Maybe her parents
30:57
Speaker 3: can make that decision and then they feel guilty for
31:00
Speaker 3: doing what they believe is best for me. I have
31:02
Speaker 3: told you what is best for me because I know me.
31:06
Speaker 3: So I think it's a really powerful position to be in.
31:08
Speaker 3: And I didn't mean to leave this episode on a
31:10
Speaker 3: negative kind of note, but I think it's really important
31:13
Speaker 3: to do. And if you haven't listened to our episode
31:16
Speaker 3: about wills, I would strongly encourage you to go back
31:19
Speaker 3: and have a bit of a listen to that, because
31:21
Speaker 3: whilst these subjects might seem a little bit dry or
31:23
Speaker 3: a little bit mundane, organizing our affairs can save our
31:27
Speaker 3: loved ones a lot of work and it takes a
31:29
Speaker 3: little bit of effort today to make the world of
31:31
Speaker 3: difference tomorrow. So that's probably where I want to leave it.
31:34
Speaker 2: George.
31:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, go listen to one of our Friday
31:37
Speaker 3: episodes to pep you up a little bit in the
31:39
Speaker 3: movie in the Mood. But I do think this has
31:43
Speaker 3: been a really powerful topic to cover and an education
31:46
Speaker 3: point that I wanted you guys to really absorb. So Gee,
31:49
Speaker 3: hopefully you've learned something. Hopefully everybody listening has learned something.
31:53
Speaker 3: I love you all, but unfortunately that is all we
31:57
Speaker 3: have time for today. So just before we head off,
32:00
Speaker 3: we'd like to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal
32:03
Speaker 3: and Torres Strait islander peoples. They're the traditional custodians of
32:07
Speaker 3: the lands, the waterways and the skies all across Australia.
32:11
Speaker 3: We thank you for sharing and for caring for the
32:13
Speaker 3: land on which we are able to learn. We pay
32:15
Speaker 3: respects to elders past and present, and we share our
32:18
Speaker 3: friendship and our kindness. See you next week, guys, See
32:22
Speaker 3: you guys,