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The NAR Settlement: Winning Strategies for a New Reality · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  Welcome to this episode of the mortgage marketing radio podcast. Hey, before we get started,
• 0:16
  I got a question for you. Are you looking for more ways to be more valuable to real estate
• 0:21
  agents? Are you wondering what the impact of the NAR settlement is really going to be
• 0:26
  across the board, the impact of agents to commissions to your strategy around real estate
• 0:31
  agents? We'll stay tuned because my special guest and I unpack that exact scenario and
• 0:36
  more in just a few moments. But before we get into that, hey, hey, hey, if you've been
• 0:39
  listening for a while, you know what I bring you. Most often I'm bringing another win
• 0:43
  of the week, right, from our members in my agent classes. What is that? If you haven't
• 0:47
  heard by now, look, the bottom line is, right, you need to reach more agents because there's
• 0:52
  a shift going on, right? As you'll hear in a moment from my special guest, there probably
• 0:55
  is going to be a thinning of the herd. As my special guest talks about in a moment, he's
• 0:59
  going to talk about why the likelihood is you probably will be getting more referrals
• 1:03
  from less agents. And of course, there's the listing side of the equation as well. But the
• 1:09
  most important point is like, you know, I've been lately playing with this word this term
• 1:13
  15 mile famous. And the question is, in a 15 mile radius, how many referral partners
• 1:19
  agents others would know your name? Like if the call came, the email, if you're post from
• 1:24
  social media showed up in their feed, how many of them would recognize, oh, that's right,
• 1:29
  so and so. They're the person who fill in the blank. What are you known for? And if you're
• 1:36
  not known for anything, well, if I don't know, you exist, right? If I can't find you,
• 1:41
  if you don't show up in, right, the conversation, how relevant can you be? So what's the point
• 1:49
  of all this? The point of all this is, look, I don't think you would argue moving forward
• 1:53
  that the most important thing to have in any business is a personal brand. One that has
• 2:00
  an identity, one that stands for something and is known for something, right? If you think
• 2:04
  about it in the context of you trying to get attention from real estate agents, the brand
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  most originators have is that of solicitor or vendor. If you have the brand of partner
• 2:14
  and peer, and that's what we help you do in my age and classes. We help you build a platform
• 2:22
  like you're running for office. You need to create awareness. You need to run on a platform.
• 2:27
  You need to engage with your constituents. You need to be known for something, right?
• 2:31
  So that people can connect with you on whatever is your running on your principles. You know,
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  what you know what I mean? And in this case, it's you lead with education and value that
• 2:41
  helps your agents solve problems. The tool of the platform by which we do that is leading
• 2:47
  with educational classes, primarily delivered in person and over zoom as a means for engaging
• 2:52
  with your constituents so they can vote for you. You can create connection, engagement,
• 2:56
  and conversation that leads to referrals. You heard the success stories on here multiple
• 3:01
  weeks after week after week. What are you waiting for? Now is the time to grab market share.
• 3:09
  Now is not the time to retreat. Now is the time to advance. Is this right for everybody?
• 3:13
  No. Could it be right for you? Maybe. I'm not sure. Right now, there's only one way to find out.
• 3:19
  And that is commit to 30 minutes with me. If you're a mortgage originator and you're hearing
• 3:24
  the sound of my voice right now and you've been in the business at least three years and you're
• 3:27
  closing a minimum of three transactions plus per month, ideally more. And you're looking to save
• 3:35
  time. You're looking to reach more agents in less time without the struggle without the chase.
• 3:41
  Well, hey, it cost you 30 minutes. Mortgage marketing.pro. Go check it out.
• 3:48
  Okay, my special guest this week. I'm a big fan of a thousand watt and who is a thousand
• 3:53
  watt. They are a marketing and branding agency that specializes in real estate and mortgage.
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  They work with a lot of brands names, high level teams, boutique agencies and brokerages.
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  To help them articulate their value and position their business for for the future,
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  ultimately telling better stories. So things are happening fast, right?
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  In this industry, as we know, with the recent NAR settlement and more,
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  the conversation I have with Brian is really thought provoking because we really kind of unpack.
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  First of all, some of the if you will, historic issues and challenges that most real estate
• 4:32
  agents and companies have from a brand perspective standpoint. And then we get into some really
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  interesting data, which impacts the impact that's impacted impact in one word. Can I say that?
• 4:43
  Which kind of reveals the impact to the NAR settlement and Brian gives his take on, you know,
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  what is the impact on the buyer agent side? What are some of the changes that are coming
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  on a real practical level in the field? What to prepare for in the summer months as you'll hear him
• 4:59
  describe when you listen to the podcast. And that's very important for you to hear. And then
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  lastly, most importantly, how do you as a mortgage professional show up? This is your opportunity.
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  And so I think this conversation hopefully creates some confidence for you in that the future
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  is bright for those who know how to articulate their value and those who take action. And I highly
• 5:19
  recommend you subscribe to ThousandWats newsletter. It's called The Dose. And there's a link in
• 5:24
  the show notes. It is full of great content and data that I use a lot for having conversations
• 5:30
  that make me look smart. Frankly, it's all their content that makes me look smart. And then
• 5:34
  they do have an upcoming event, a brand and marketing summit coming up in Dallas on June 25th through
• 5:39
  27th. And if you are so inclined, check that out as well. The link is in the show notes. But I think
• 5:46
  you'll really find this to be a meaningful conversation. And if you do find it to be meaningful,
• 5:49
  hey, look Brian up on Instagram or on LinkedIn. We'll link them up in the show notes and just let them
• 5:54
  know what your key takeaway was from our conversation here today. So without further ado,
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  let's get into this week's show. Brian, welcome to the show. Hey, Jeff, thank you. I'm excited to
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  be here. This is a long time coming as I said. And it's only because I've been a fan of your
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  content remotely for quite a while. But for those who may not be familiar with yourself, ThousandWats,
• 6:16
  consulting, what do you want to tell the listeners about who you are and what you guys do?
• 6:21
  Sure. So my company ThousandWat co-founded it about 16 years ago. And we're a strategy and creative
• 6:29
  firm that's just focused on housing. So we work with real estate brands, real estate brokerage companies,
• 6:38
  prop tech companies, do some work with mortgage companies, title companies, but housing is our thing.
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  And what we do really is to help good companies get really clear about their value and their truth
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  and then help them express that in the world. And that's marketing, advertising, design, all of that
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  stuff. Yeah, and that's not an easy task either to take real estate agents and help them get
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  religion, I guess if you will, in regards to understanding that your brand isn't,
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  I sell houses, I open doors, I have a list of properties. To what degree, I don't know,
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  from what I can tell from the engagements of the company brands that you feature through
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  your newsletter and such forth, it looks like you already are working with some forward thinking
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  savvy companies. So it makes me curious is how much of that is a chasm that you have to help agents
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  cross, if that makes sense? Yeah, look, I think, and you probably heard this saying before,
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  it half the thing is companies when we work with them can't really live an inside perspective,
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  you know, as the saying goes, you can't read the label from inside the box. And you know,
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  what we help is with is getting companies to kind of look at their unique value,
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  their differentiators, what they bring to their customer from a fresh perspective,
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  and then we put that out in the world because, you know, one thing, and I'm sure you've seen
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  this, Jeff, it's whether you're on the real estate side of the mortgage side, it is a big business
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  that is really undifferentiated, right? Mortgage companies, right? I hear this all the time,
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  we sell a commodity product, well, that's only if you lit it be, real estate agents, there's a million
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  and a half of you, you all say the same thing, maybe you should stop doing that. So that's kind of what
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  we do, we work with good companies, good brands to help them create the territory and the difference
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  that they really should be creating. You know, I think it maybe it speaks to you, the types of
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  people who are attracted to work with you are the ones who want to be better than the norm, right?
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  They want to be quote unquote the best. Yes, I mean, I would say the types of companies that we work with
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  really value positioning, framing, brand development, and creating defensible difference.
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  And you know, that's not every company, you know, just talking about real estate brands, for example,
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  you go into any major metro and there's the red brand, the blue brand, black and white brand,
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  the green brand, okay? We recognize those as different colors, but they don't really have any
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  meaning to us. And a brand, if it's going to truly be a brand, needs to carry some meaning
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  into the world to connect with the people that it wants to connect with.
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  Do you find that that that is the more the boutique brands who embrace that than the larger
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  franchise names that we all know? Generally speaking, yes, but not always. And I think
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  that is a function of command and control, meaning if you're a small, let's say, 150 or less
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  real estate shop, or for that matter, you know, a mortgage lender, right? You can create
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  difference and are able to enforce that with your agents or your elbows in a way that
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  escapes you once you get to scale, right? So my observation has been that boutique's kind of
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  find it easier to create a differentiated brand because they have greater command and control
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  over their operation. So it just becomes more difficult as you scale upward. It doesn't mean
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  that it can or shouldn't be done. Before we get into some of the discussion around the NAR
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  settlement and the impact alone officers, we're going to have a really cool conversation around that.
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  You said something a moment ago that stood out for me, a defensible difference. If you wouldn't
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  mind, I'd love to unpack that a little bit. What does that mean? What it means in a nutshell is
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  what's your unique value proposition? That's a term we all understand. But more specifically,
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  it means what are the things that you deliver to your ideal customer profile,
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  the unique things, and they can be both emotional or functional. What are the things that you
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  deliver to that ideal customer profile that you are better at than any of the other alternatives
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  your ideal customer profile has, i.e. your competitors, right? So that can be any number of things.
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  And really, the challenge is to dig deeply enough to find those things that are actually
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  credible and defensible. And I'll give you an example of how that kind of sometimes just falls
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  apart, right? So you may hear a real estate company or a mortgage company say, well we deliver high
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  touch service. Well, what do you mean by that? Give me specifics. Why am I to believe that? Give me
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  another construct that we use often in our work is the reasons to believe. And otherwise, in other
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  words, proof points. So if you're going to claim that you deliver customized high touch service,
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  you need to give me the reasons to believe that claim. Okay. And would reasons, an example of reasons.
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  Yeah, I'm trying to think through this. I'm envisioning an agent or a loan officer sitting in front
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  of you, the prospector referral partner. And does that mean you've got to actually perhaps have
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  a defined process you articulate that includes like testimonials that includes I've got a unique
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  process, all those things. Yeah, you can substantiate a claim and a reason to believe can be any one
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  of those things. It could be quantitative, right? Here's, you know, specific statistics that
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  justify our claim or it can be qualitative. This is just like a case study, right? Here's a story
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  of two borrowers that we health. And in the course of telling you that story, we are going to show you
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  how we deliver high touch service. Got it. So back to what we all know is we should be making our
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  clients the hero, not ourselves. Well, we should be at least speaking to them very specifically
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  and understanding them. One of the things that I've noticed both in real estate and mortgage is
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  that there's a lot of talk about the consumer, but not a lot of systematic listing to the consumer.
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  And I think it starts there. Who's your customer? How do you understand their psychology, their
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  emotional and functional needs really, really well? And until you have that understanding, you cannot
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  really create a connection with them that you hope to have. And, you know, it's, this is
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  marketing and brand building fundamentals, but it's something that, you know, I mean, look,
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  people are busy. They have a lot going on. The markets, the markets weird to say the least. And
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  sometimes you ever look the basics. Yeah, exactly. Because we get so busy and kind of like
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  force through the trees, we can't see it. But that's why it's good to have someone like your firm
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  who comes in a fresh set of eyes that can look at it externally and identify, right, those areas
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  of optimization, if you will. Okay, let's transition to the hot topic of which I'm sure you've been
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  busy talking a lot about over the past several weeks. And that, of course, is the an error settlement.
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  And I've been looking at some of your data. And as I told you before, we hit record. We've been
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  because it's so good. You know, my main thing with what I thrive on is helping educate real estate
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  agents going way back to a background. We don't even have time to get into, but it's just a passion
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  project for whatever reason for me to educate real estate agents on how to be better marketers,
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  better, you know, articulators of value and things like that. And I think your data helps,
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  helps reveal some truths around that. And so the NAR settlement, let me ask, this is kind of
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  the opening question I've been asking people like yourself to start off with is I know it's a
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  little bit hard to crystal ball and see around the corner. There's a lot of noise about what ifs
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  and all that. Do you have any hot take on what you think the actual impact will be to business as
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  usual from the real estate agent side of things? I always hesitate to predict things because
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  I don't really know. I do not know how this is going to put me on. But I will, since you, I will
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  give you my long simmering tape. I have, I do suggest that we've thought a lot about this,
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  1000 lot. And we've done a lot of research as you cited. And we've done a lot of research in the
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  past six months. In the midst of all this change, trying to understand buyer's mindset, how they
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  think about developments from the lawsuit verdict in October to the settlement just a month and a
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  half ago. And so we've done a lot of thinking about this. And I would guess my best guess
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  was, well, my best guess is that this summer is going to be the summer of real estate chaos.
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  I will say that. And I'm pretty sure about that. And what I mean there is that there are probably a
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  good third of all real estate agents, a good third who could not effectively or consistently
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  fill out the paperwork that exists today and manage the process that exists today. I'm not kidding.
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  I love real estate agents. My wife's a real estate agent. But the sad reality is that probably a third
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  could not effectively navigate the process for writing offers and dealing with buyers.
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  Usually the listing agent would have to cover for them. A good listing agent.
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  So like you're dealing with our reality and we're barreling towards this big change in August
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  where we have to talk about compensation upfront. We have to ask for money. We have to do
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  new paperwork. And we don't know how we're going to get paid because there's new offer of
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  compensation inside the MLS anymore. So what I know is that that's going to hit like a ton of bricks
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  and you're going to see chaos. You're going to see lots of agents paralyzed. And you're going to
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  see lots of agents, frankly, doing some pretty dumb things that are going to get them in their
• 18:00
  broker suit. And sadly, that's what I'm pretty sure is going to happen over the summer. There's
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  going to be mass chaos. So look, if you're a mortgage lender, a loan officer out there,
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  if you have any way that you can support your real estate agent partners through this summer of
• 18:21
  chaos and confusion, do it because there's going to be a lot of need out there for help and guidance.
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  So that's number one. What I think is going to happen over time,
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  vis-a-vis the consumer is that we will probably see in the coming months and years moderate
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  commission compression on the buy side. I think moderate commission compression.
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  And I think that is going to be the product of a couple of things. First of all, I don't think
• 18:53
  a lot of agents are going to handle the value proposition conversation with buyers well.
• 18:59
  And they sit down and they have to say, listen, Mr. and Mrs. Buyer, this is how much you pay me,
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  and I just don't think that muscle has been developed with buyer agents like it has been with
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  listing agents who have done that forever to sit in living rooms and ask for a paycheck.
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  Secondly, I think that this creates a window of opportunity, this moment for new entrance to come
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  in and do real estate compensation differently, that it's a unique moment in time. We've always had
• 19:36
  alternative models. We've always had flat fee shops when you observe a shop, rebate shops and
• 19:41
  real estate. That's always existed. But what has happened in the last six months is our popular
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  mind has become aware of the mechanics of the real estate industry in a way it never has before.
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  So what I mean by that is the real estate industry has crossed over into popular culture.
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  Nobody, nobody in backyard barbecues has been talking about real estate commissions and the
• 20:12
  news about a real estate cartel that they read from something in the last six months they had.
• 20:18
  And I think that will probably create an appetite for new services that will have the net effect
• 20:25
  over time of compressing commissions moderately. Okay. So what you, let me ask this first,
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  some time ago, I forget exactly when this was in your newsletter, there was a survey you put out
• 20:40
  that asked respondents who was aware of the NAR situation, but I believe that was some time last
• 20:47
  year, correct? No, we've done a few different studies and the one we did released just a couple
• 20:57
  weeks ago, one of the questions that we asked. And we asked this of experienced real estate
• 21:04
  consumers nationwide, meaning people who have both bought and sold the home in the past five
• 21:10
  years. So these are people who have been through it, they're sort of vested in the real estate
• 21:16
  world. And the first question we asked all of them was, have you heard about last month's
• 21:25
  national settlement from the National Association of Realtors to settle legal claims?
• 21:32
  Okay. 36% said yes, which is interesting. That means 63% had not heard of it at all.
• 21:43
  Right. But when you get to, to have affluent consumers, that goes up to well over half. So
• 21:49
  affluent homeowners who have bought and sold the home, they know a lot more as do boomers.
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  Awareness of this whole issue among boomers is significantly higher than the average.
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  So you can look at that one of two ways and say, well, you know, more or less half of people
• 22:08
  aren't aware of it. But on the other hand, that's kind of a lot.
• 22:14
  And what people have heard is what they've seen all over the place, which is real estate
• 22:19
  social. Exactly. Unfortunately, they saw the media sound bites, which are by and large
• 22:24
  or in correct or half true. I mean, they are what they are, right? I mean, they're noise.
• 22:33
  Yeah. I mean, they have, that stuff has permeated the popular mind.
• 22:39
  Okay. So you think that to your point earlier about the backyard barbecue, this is now,
• 22:43
  we know, water cooler, whatever. Now these are talking points, whereas perhaps less so prior to
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  the NAR settlement, which means, and I don't know if you, if you're in any of the groups and
• 22:54
  threads where, you know, there's agents posting their recent in market conversations or transactions,
• 22:59
  are you seeing some of that bubble up too? Like it's already where the sellers are putting their
• 23:06
  feet in the ground saying, oh, if I don't have to, you know, you see the flip side of that as well.
• 23:11
  And I think this all comes back to full circle. Like you said, and this might even be a quote for
• 23:15
  money or studies, which is, you know, those who know how to articulate value will win, right? But
• 23:21
  yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's just to tell you what I mean by that, Jeff.
• 23:32
  On the by side of the transaction, for decades, the real estate industry as a whole,
• 23:41
  and down to the individual agent, in most cases, we created a vacuum of understanding around
• 23:47
  what a good buyer agent does. We've done surveys where over half of people who have bought a house
• 23:55
  recently say, my agent didn't even tell me how they were to get paid. Didn't even bring it up.
• 24:03
  And when we talk with consumers, they have only a very basic idea of like what is really important
• 24:08
  that a buyer agent does versus like what is sort of trivial, like open the door to showing?
• 24:14
  So we created this vacuum where people didn't really understand the real value of a buyer agent,
• 24:19
  because compensation is sort of baked into the cake with the MLS agents could avoid that hard
• 24:25
  conversation and asking for money upfront. We all know tons of real estate agents. So it was
• 24:33
  kind of relationship based and somebody would pick you because you're their kid's soccer coach
• 24:38
  or they know you from church or from the neighborhood, whatever. And unlike the listing side,
• 24:43
  where it always came down to that conversation in the living room where you had to give a listing
• 24:48
  presentation and talk about compensation and talk about the marketing plan, none of that happened
• 24:52
  on the by side. So this is a vacuum. And of course, we all know nature of course a vacuum, so
• 24:59
  eventually gets filled. And what we've seen over the last six months is that vacuum got filled
• 25:04
  with a lot of things that those in the real estate industry don't like, right? But we created
• 25:11
  the darn vacuum. So you can't complain too much about the media here.
• 25:18
  Yeah. So for the states that have already had buyer broker agreements in place, I'm not an expert,
• 25:23
  maybe you can comment on this better. But the one missing piece from that though was the upfront
• 25:29
  compensation, is that correct? Yeah, there are several states that required a buyer broker agreement
• 25:35
  always did, right? So they have less changing. But even in those states, there's no
• 25:43
  blanket offer compensation in the MLS. Like that was the whole sort of, you know, deer that
• 25:50
  was in our hands. It wasn't part of the agreement, therefore, right? That the buyer.
• 25:58
  And this was really the lawyer's argument and the federal government's argument with the whole system.
• 26:04
  You have the seller setting the compensation in advance for the agent representing the buyer.
• 26:11
  And that is wrong for all kinds of reasons. And you know, we won't get into that. But that was
• 26:16
  the premise of the argument. And it just kind of made it easy for practitioners. I think arguably
• 26:22
  it was probably good for consumers too. But you know, it was just all that was baked into the cake.
• 26:28
  And now it has to like, you know, like make the recipe from scratch every time you meet a buyer
• 26:33
  and talk about that. And whatever your fee is, let's say you're going to charge two and a half percent
• 26:38
  of the less price of the home your buyer buys. You're going to have to say, this is what I charge.
• 26:48
  And this is what I do to earn that fee. And maybe in the course of negotiating with a seller,
• 26:53
  we can get some sort of credit where they can help pay for that. But maybe not. And you're going
• 26:58
  to have to come out of pocket for that. That's a really wonky thorny conversation to have. And I
• 27:04
  think a lot of agents are going to struggle with that. Yeah. I'm trying to play it out as well in my
• 27:11
  head because, you know, then you know, you get into situations where you let's just face a lot of
• 27:18
  first time home buyers. They're not going to be able to pony up for some of that money. So then
• 27:21
  what do you do as an agent? Do you do make this a nonverbal or grab? I don't know. Maybe the buyer
• 27:27
  says, well, I don't want to maybe the agent advises them. Well, then we're not going to look at any
• 27:31
  properties that don't have compensation included in that. Well, the agent, the agent can't specify
• 27:38
  that, right? I mean, that's part of what got us into trouble. And the first question was that
• 27:45
  agents were steering. And I'm only going to show you the houses that offer at least two and a half
• 27:49
  or preferably three percent. So yeah, it's awkward. And look, the situation such as it is right now
• 27:57
  is pretty, pretty bad for, you know, starter home buyers, low-income home buyers. It's bad for
• 28:06
  veterans who, you know, can't deal with the commission as part of their loan. There's some folks that
• 28:14
  have been left in the cold, at least for now, with this settlement decision. And it's going to
• 28:19
  cause a lot of difficulty for people. And, you know, that's a serious thing. And who knows
• 28:26
  how this will evolve over time. But right now, there's just going to be a lot of
• 28:31
  buyers confused and stuck and challenged. And a lot of agents who are going to be confused and
• 28:38
  stuck and challenged. Okay. Let me pull up this piece of data real quick. Because I also like to
• 28:45
  provide some good news to real estate agents when I'm talking to them. And this is one of your surveys
• 28:51
  that asked if you were buying home today for half a million bucks. That was your budget.
• 28:55
  How much would you be willing to pay for the services of an agent? And what you guys articulated
• 29:00
  in there is that over 20 percent of the respondents would pay at least the equivalent of a two and a
• 29:04
  half percent commission and another 37 percent would pay at least 2 percent. So are you saying that
• 29:12
  it's not that people don't want to compensate buyers agents. It's just a matter of how.
• 29:17
  Yeah. It's interesting, Jeff. So we in a lot of our work have tried to get
• 29:27
  at in lots of different ways, people sentiment about compensation to real estate agents and what
• 29:34
  they really think. Okay. So we'll ask like the same question 10 different ways. And what we have
• 29:39
  generally found is that people do not have kind of an inherent objection to how and the amount
• 29:50
  in which real estate agents have been paid. Like there's no like native outrage about that.
• 29:56
  However, there's two caveats to that. When the sale price gets up above a million dollars,
• 30:03
  people start to question it. Right. The median home price in the United States of America now is
• 30:09
  about 400 grand. The gets up to a million. People are like, okay, 2.5 percent of a million dollars
• 30:15
  while I was kind of spending, right? And people also understand the connection between the massive run
• 30:22
  up and home values over the last four years. Most 10 years really, but really in the last four
• 30:28
  years and that commission like, my god, you're getting paid 40 percent more to help me buy this house
• 30:34
  and you did four years ago. That's where people start to waver on it. And the other thing we noticed
• 30:39
  is that even though people generally are cool with realtor compensation, if you frame things a little
• 30:45
  bit differently, you can easily change their feeling and perception. I'll give you an example.
• 30:53
  So if you say, and we literally use this language of people, we say, you don't walk into a car
• 31:01
  dealership with a buyer representative to help you buy a car. You buy the car from the person
• 31:09
  and the company selling the car. And you negotiate directly with them. There are laws that protect you,
• 31:17
  lemon was in the case of cars that give you a cooling up period, all that type of stuff.
• 31:23
  Do you think that that would be a better way to buy a house? And then we offer, you know,
• 31:30
  I agree with this. I don't agree with this. And when you frame things like that, then you're going to
• 31:35
  get a majority of people saying, yeah, you know, on second thought, why do I want to have two agents
• 31:40
  in the deal? And why do I want to pay for this representation? Well, I can just buy from
• 31:46
  in our real estate case, the listing agent. So it's this weird contradiction, Jeff, people,
• 31:53
  you know, on its face, they're like, yeah, cool. That's how real estate agents get paid,
• 31:58
  cool. But if you start to frame it differently, you can get different outcomes.
• 32:06
  And then of course, yeah, that can vary based on individual experience or whatnot. But
• 32:11
  and then there was, so the sentiment is changing somewhat because I remember I was doing some
• 32:16
  research and I found an older study from you guys from 2022. I think that was, I know,
• 32:22
  bam, next was putting that out. And that was saying that in, you know, in general,
• 32:26
  all people don't really care what agents get compensated. Perhaps that's now have evolved because
• 32:32
  of all the attention around this. Well, it's evolved. And again, if you if you ask the question
• 32:39
  differently, you start to see where people waver in that assessment. No, like you said. Yes,
• 32:45
  the sits your trial verdict at the end of our settlement and the media and social media
• 32:54
  explosion that that caused have had an impact on consumer sentiment consumers are more likely
• 33:01
  to question the value and the compensation of a realtor right now.
• 33:05
  Okay, most of them are still okay with it, but that sentiment has grown in light of recent events.
• 33:12
  And isn't part of the answer to this? Like, why are we reluctant to sign a buyer agreement?
• 33:19
  Well, because I don't understand it. I don't know what I'm getting into. And or, you know,
• 33:23
  I'm reluctant to pay for something if I don't associate a value to that, right?
• 33:28
  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, for for the majority of agents who never used a buyer broker agreement
• 33:38
  and didn't talk explicitly about how they were going to pay, my question is, well,
• 33:43
  how are people supposed to value something that they proceed to be free? And in fact,
• 33:47
  and maybe you've seen this, Jeff, on online forum, you see it's all the time.
• 33:51
  You see where agents promote their services on the buy side is free. They always did that.
• 33:56
  You know, my services are free to you, the buyer. Well, how much of the value that which is free?
• 34:01
  This is where the industry really should have tried itself in the foot in my view.
• 34:06
  All right. Good point. Good point. All right, with a few minutes we've got left, I'd be
• 34:09
  curious to get your take on the intersection of mortgage professional and real estate agent on either
• 34:16
  side, buyer of the side, but what recommendations or what do you see as opportunities for the
• 34:22
  mortgage professional to be more valuable to the agent? Well, I think, look, as much
• 34:33
  support and guidance in terms of information that you can provide the better.
• 34:39
  I do think that you're going to see, I hate to be hyperbolic, but I really believe that,
• 34:44
  I think chaos this summer, and I would say going forward,
• 34:50
  Ellos and mortgage companies are going to still get referrals from realtors,
• 34:58
  but you're going to get more referrals from fewer realtors.
• 35:02
  Because what's going to happen here is it is going to drive consolidation within the business
• 35:08
  in the real estate side. There are going to be a significant number, perhaps hundreds and thousands
• 35:15
  of agents who cannot navigate the change that is unfolding right now.
• 35:20
  And so my guidance to Ellos would be to really, if you haven't already, figure out who the best
• 35:28
  most capable agents are in your marketplace and cultivate them like you've never cultivated them
• 35:34
  before. Because I suspect that you are going to get, you're still going to get referrals,
• 35:41
  but they're going to come from fewer agents. Interesting. Well, that goes back to
• 35:48
  just those that are more willing to adapt, right? Are the ones who survive?
• 35:55
  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think we're kind of in this survival of the fittest moment
• 36:01
  in the real estate business. It's like, you know, high school biology, we all learned about
• 36:07
  natural selection, right? The environment changes and some animals adapt and some don't.
• 36:14
  And those that adapt and survive become stronger. And I think that's going to happen in
• 36:19
  realtor world. And, you know, I think it's just good from mortgage professionals to understand
• 36:25
  that reality. And to make sure that they are, you know, keeping their really productive,
• 36:32
  professional, realtor friends close. And to support them in any way that is legitimate,
• 36:41
  because it's going to be a wild ride. And I wish that they would be good.
• 36:50
  Yeah. I'm just thinking about more than once. Obviously, you've referenced the word chaos.
• 36:54
  And I think about like one of the things where we're coaching our people around is to be that
• 36:57
  lighthouse in the storm, right? Where people go to get, yeah. And I'm helping or at least advising
• 37:05
  that you as a mortgage professional, this is a huge opportunity to integrate yourself into
• 37:11
  that adapted buyers agent, the person who understands they need to pivot but might need some help.
• 37:17
  And so as you know, with financing and seller buy downs and, you know, perhaps adding the buyer
• 37:22
  agent commission to the purchase price and the appraisal gaps. Yeah. I see like the lender role
• 37:28
  for me just got put on a pedestal. I think that's a valid observation, Jeff, and a good one.
• 37:38
  Because, you know, you're right. A lot of what a lender can do is going to be relevant to the
• 37:45
  complexity that is going to, you know, happen here very shortly. And yeah, I think if you're able
• 37:52
  to be that lighthouse, you stand to do well. And, you know, for example, all of these statistics
• 38:02
  that you're citing. So we do this research and I'm going basis, right? You know, we have a membership
• 38:08
  program. You can be a member of a thousand lot. And you get this research and you get marketing,
• 38:13
  actionable marketing based on the research. And if you're an L.O. that's sharing that information
• 38:18
  with your realtor partners to help them kind of get their bearings in a really weird time,
• 38:23
  then you're, you know, establishing value that's relevant for the moment.
• 38:29
  Yep. Yep. Simply being like we said, being that lighthouse helped them help guide them.
• 38:33
  Speaking of your membership and some resources you have, let's, we've only got a couple of minutes
• 38:36
  left. Let's make sure we tell people about those. You have this wonderful newsletter called
• 38:41
  The Dose. I want to make sure we're going to put links in the show notes to that. But that,
• 38:46
  for me, has been a wonderful insight into some of this data and, you know, psychology and
• 38:52
  that you guys put out there. Anything you want to say about that real quickly?
• 38:57
  Yeah, I mean, it's free. It's, you know, a mix of like our take on industry stuff.
• 39:04
  We share a little bit of our research. And then also some like marketing, branding, creative
• 39:10
  inspiration. So it's a really unique newsletter. Just go to our site thousandbot.net. It's free.
• 39:16
  And then the membership program is a subscription program. You can also access that through our
• 39:21
  website. Then you get all kinds of research, marketing concepts. You can share. It's pretty robust.
• 39:28
  Yes. It definitely is. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. And then for, by the way,
• 39:32
  some originators listening to this will probably share this episode with real estate agents.
• 39:36
  So they, if they're listening to this right now and you got this, this episode from your mortgage
• 39:41
  professional, please make sure you circle back and thank them. Make sure you go to the website to
• 39:45
  check out the dose, the free newsletter. And then one more thing. You do have a pretty cool summit
• 39:49
  coming up. I love the, it's a branding and marketing summit. I love the headline here,
• 39:54
  which is answering the wake up call, the real estate event for those who want to meet the moment
• 39:59
  with confidence. What would you like to tell the listeners about that event?
• 40:03
  Yeah. Well, you know, we're doing this event in Dallas June 25 to 27. We launched it about six
• 40:13
  months ago because we thought marketing and messaging and branding are always important,
• 40:19
  but they have never been more important in the real estate and mortgage world. I would argue
• 40:23
  that they are right now. So that's the focus of the event. Like things are changing. How do you
• 40:30
  project a new story out into this marketplace and connect when things are weird? And that's actually
• 40:38
  an opportunity. It's sort of glib to say, you know, when everything's crappy and the market's down
• 40:42
  and all this weird stuff is happening that there's opportunity, but there is. And that's what we're
• 40:50
  going to focus on during those three days in Dallas. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, if your content,
• 40:56
  your data is anything right, representative of what that couple of days is going to be like,
• 41:01
  then people listening should strongly, strongly consider it. You got to get educated to be able
• 41:05
  to adapt appropriately. So we'll link that up in the show notes as well. I know we're up against
• 41:09
  the clock. Brian, thank you so much, man. This has been very, very enjoyable and I think the listeners
• 41:14
  have learned a lot. Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. I enjoyed the conversation and it's an interesting time
• 41:24
  to be in this business, isn't it? Yeah. And I guess the other takeaway is we will get through it,
• 41:30
  you know, adapt and thrive. But as you, I think might have said in one of your newsletters,
• 41:34
  right, those who can articulate value will always do well. Yes, I believe.
• 41:42
  All right, listeners, you know what to do. If you're listening to this, your mortgage loan officer,
• 41:45
  please share it with a real estate agent that you think would find this valuable. Check out the
• 41:49
  newsletter, the resources in the in the show notes. And please subscribe. I think you'll find a
• 41:54
  valuable just like I have. And thanks for tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now.
• 41:58
  All right. Well, thanks for tuning into today's episode. Hey, I got a question for you. Are you
• 42:02
  struggling to get engagement and referrals from real estate agents and feeling like you're constantly
• 42:07
  fighting for business in a crowded market? What if I told you there's a way to attract agents to
• 42:12
  a provide unique value that helps them grow their business and generate referrals on demand,
• 42:17
  helping you become the dominant loan officer in your local market? Look, I was an originator for
• 42:22
  over 10 years. I understand the frustration of feeling like you're just another player and a
• 42:26
  sea of competitors and you're struggling to stand out and get noticed by the agents that you
• 42:31
  want to attract and engage with. What if I told you this way to flip the script and position
• 42:35
  yourself as the go to lending your market attracting agents, not chasing, not paying for leads,
• 42:40
  not cold calling, but actually generating referrals on demand. And the best part,
• 42:46
  you don't have to ever make a cold call or chase leads again. You don't have to work with
• 42:49
  weeny head agents if you don't want to. This is what we help the originators do at the my agent classes
• 42:55
  membership. What do you get? You get exclusive access to our private community of like-minded
• 43:00
  law officers where you can network, share best practices, get ongoing support to grow your business,
• 43:05
  and you get a turnkey platform that helps you build your personal brand that moves you from
• 43:10
  solicitor and vendor to partner in peer. You attract agents, you increase conversations and you
• 43:17
  increase your referrals. All without chasing, without begging, playing the game, paying for leads,
• 43:24
  you just by doing what you love to do, which is help other people solve problems.
• 43:29
  So how do you learn more? Go to mortgagemarketing.pro. What could call with me? And I'll take you
• 43:34
  through the library. I've done for you agent classes that you can use to just plug and play
• 43:38
  and follow our proven system of train the trainer. You don't have to be the subject matter expert.
• 43:43
  Think of yourself like the nightly news reporters just sharing the news. You also get access
• 43:47
  to our marketing automation platform that will attract, engage, and convert agents to referral
• 43:53
  partners for you. Scripts, checklists, downloads, automated email, SMS, text messages, done for
• 43:59
  you landing pages, and more. You also get our market maker content, which is the social media
• 44:04
  images that help you promote your class online. And again, every Friday at our mortgage marketing
• 44:09
  mastermind call, you get access to top L.O. speakers, coaches, connect and collaborate with what's
• 44:14
  working right now in today's market to help you grow your business. So you don't have to struggle
• 44:18
  and try and figure it out all on your own. Don't miss the opportunity to learn more about what's
• 44:23
  helping so many originers succeed and become the go-to lender in your local market. What could call
• 44:29
  with me now mortgage marketing doff, bro? We'll see you on the other side.