Latest / Raising Daughters / Why Parents Need to Value Play More

Transcript

Why Parents Need to Value Play More · Raising Daughters

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hello, friends. Thank you so much, as always, for stopping
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: by here to listen to these podcasts. This podcast is
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: called Raising Daughters, as I guess you probably know if
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: you've signed in. And I'm going to start with a
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: story today about a little girl one night. Not little,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: but she was 16 years old, but she wasn't very
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: big at the time. And she was at Amateur Night
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: at the Harlem Opera House. She's this awkward, skinny little girl.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: And she goes onto the stage. She looked like she
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: was scared to death. And the announcer says to the crowd,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: our next entertainer is going to dance for us. And
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: then he stops because she's tugging on his coat. And
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the guy says, well, hold it, hold it just a minute.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: So he looks down and says, what's your problem, honey?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: There's a pause as this little girl whispered to the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: man something. And then the man stood up. He said,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: there's been a correction, folks. She's changed her mind. She
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: is not going to dance. She wants to sing. Well.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: The audience started clapping and then she sang her song
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and then the audience went crazy. They demanded three encores
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and this shy 16-year-old girl won the first prize that
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: night at the Harlem Opera House. And with that experience,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Ella Fitzgerald began her illustrious singing career. She was called
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to her fate that night, I think. I wonder what
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: would have happened if her mom had been there or
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: her dad had been there and they would not have
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: probably let her sing because she was supposed to dance.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Because of all the rules, right? But somehow, Ella had
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the courage to go for what she wanted. To follow
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: her heart and her passion. I heard a wonderful story
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a while back. I may have said this before in
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: a previous podcast, but it's worth repeating. About these two
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: little girls. They were sisters and they were out playing
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: one day away from the house. Out in the woods.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And the older sister fell into a well and couldn't
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: climb out. It was a deep well. So this other
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: little sister, who was not very big at all, found
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: a rope. She put it down into the well and
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: she slowly but surely pulled her sister to safety. It
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: took her a long time, but she did not give up.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Once her older sister was up, the two ran back
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: into the village and they told everybody what had happened.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And all the people gathered around and nobody believed them.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Because all of them said, how could that little girl
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: have pulled her out of the well? We don't believe you.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: We think you're lying. We think you're making up the story.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So they finally, the whole village, went to see the
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: local wise man. And they told him the story. And
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the girls told him their version of the story. And
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: then the old wise man said, I believe them. And
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the villagers said, why do you believe them? And he
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: said something very important. He said, I believe them because
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: there is no adult there to tell her she couldn't
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: do it. And I think that is a story that
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: resonates so well with what's going on, I think, in
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: our families today, in our culture today, with our kids
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: being so over-monitored and so over-watched and so protected. And
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I think it's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because in the past,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: we didn't underestimate our kids' abilities very much. We let
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: them go out and about, and they're out doing their
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: own thing. And that was my generation. I told someone
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the other day, and they couldn't believe it, like that
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: girl with the well, that my first two years of college,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm from St. Louis. I went to college in
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: San Antonio, Texas. My first two years in college, my
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: roommate and I hitchhiked home. No big deal, right? This
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: is back in the 70s. I'm aging myself. different time.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Because we are underestimating our kids
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and we're depriving them of freedoms, we're depriving them of
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: opportunities to take care of themselves, to take control of
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: their own behaviors and their emotions and their safety and
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: taking care of themselves and each other. Because of that,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: because we are depriving them of those opportunities, they're not
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: developing those skills. which makes them look a lot younger
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: than they are, a lot more anxious than they need
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to be, I think. I've read some evidence that said
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: that kids in the country, in the U.S. today, pay
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: less attention to what's going on around them. And therefore,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: they're not learning as much through observation that kids in
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the past did. And the reason that they don't need
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: to look around as much as they used to is
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: because they expect adults to take over, adults to help out,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Adults to solve their problems so they don't need to
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: be as aware. And again, another self-fulfilling prophecy, which means
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: they are less able to take care of themselves. Not
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: because they're limited in their abilities, but because we haven't
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: let them. I think kids having the opportunity to play,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: especially play that has some degree of physical risk, I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: think it's so important because it teaches kids how to
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: look after themselves and each other. Kids will take on
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: the responsibility for their own safety when they're actually responsible
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: for their own safety, as opposed to relying on the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: adults hovering around them, telling them what to do and
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: what not to do, telling them, be careful, don't do that,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: not too close. I think, you know, I think parents
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: in the past, all of us, we experience a lot
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: more freedom, a lot more unstructured, unsupervised playtime. And I
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: think we were a lot better off for that. There's
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of reasons for this. I could go on
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and on about that, and this is not the place
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: or the time, at least in this podcast. By the way,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I read a book a while back called Free to Learn.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the author, but anyway,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: you could look it up, Free to Learn, that describes
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: all this in great detail and lots of research. I
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: think one of the reasons in this day and age
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: that that we're doing too much for our kids and
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: we're overly supervising all that. It's because of the uncertainty
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: about their futures because things change so much. Uncertainty about
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: their future employment. It's impossible to predict what jobs might
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: be available in the future or what job skills are
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: going to be required because things are changing so fast.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: That was not true 50, 80, 100, whatever years ago.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: And parents are worrying about their kids' abilities to make
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a living, I think more so than they did in
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the past. I think this is contributing to their tendency
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: to view childhood as a time of resume building rather
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: than a time of play and a time of growth.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Reviewing childhood as a time of resume building, I think
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that really resonates. The girls I work with in my
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: retreats and my camps and things, my counseling practices, There's
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: so much pressure on them about their grades and about
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: going to a top college, about getting a good job
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and making a lot of money. There's this whole mantra,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: which I've talked about in previous podcasts. Somehow I think
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: parents have been led to believe that they can get
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: their kids into the right adult-directed extracurricular activities and volunteer
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: activities and motivate them and push them to achieve high
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: scores on their tests and and get them into a
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: prestigious university, they can protect their child's future. It'll be
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: all set up for them. But I don't think that's
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: how life works. I actually think it almost works in
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the opposite. I think when times are uncertain and the
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: future is uncertain, I think that means that our kids
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: are going to need to be more personally responsible, more
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: independence of thought. They need to have more self-assertion, flexibility.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: They're going to learn how to be creative thinkers, be
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: engaged with their imaginations, willing to take risks, having more self-knowledge,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: not less, more. More independence, not less. More self-knowledge, not less.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I read a story a while back about this seven-year-old
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: girl was at a school play during the holidays. And
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: she was playing Santa Claus. And she bumped into the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Christmas tree that was on the set. And back in
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: that day, they had real candles. Not lights, but real candles.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: And it caught her outfit on fire. So she started
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: screaming in terror. And then she felt herself being wrapped
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: up in a rug. And when the rug was taken off,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: she decided to keep her eyes closed and make believe
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: she was blind. And people started crying, oh my God,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: her eyes, her eyes. It hurt her eyes. She's going
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: to be blind. And this little girl said, I remember
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: a shudder of delight went through me. And she said,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: this is important, I was in complete command of the moment.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: That is awesome. I was in complete command of the moment.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: By the way, that little girl grew up to be
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Betty Davis, the famous actress. That's what I think her
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: passion for acting really got stimulated. There's another man who,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: when he was a kid, He was also seven years old.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: His parents were making him take formal lessons. for piano.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And he was losing interest because he didn't like to
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: learn to read music the way they were teaching him.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: So he said he focused on his baseball, drawing, painting.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: But then at 14 years of age, and by the way,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: he stopped doing the lessons. At 14 years of age,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: he heard ragtime music for the first time. He immediately
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: came home, sat down at the piano, and tried to
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: copy what he had heard. He said there was no
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: connection between me and music, and still I started fiddling
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: with it by myself, doing it for me. He said
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: as far as anyone teaching me, there was too many rules,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: too many regulations. As long as I could sit down
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: and figure it out myself, then it was all right.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: That I don't think happens enough today. Today he'd be
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: in lessons five days a week and going on trips
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and doing competitions. But Duke Ellington, that seven-year-old, Duke Ellington
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: learned it by himself, learned on his own. I've read
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: lots of biographies, because I love biographies, about rock and
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: roll stars even. And most of our famous rock and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: roll people like Paul Simon and the Beatles and the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Stones and those kinds of people Most of them never
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: had lessons. They taught themselves to play. They didn't have
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of money for lessons. They even would build
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: their own guitars. That's what Paul McCartney and John Lennon
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: said that they did. And they taught themselves. It was
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: their interests, their passion, their fulfillment. It's hard to believe, right?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: That those people who are some of our greatest artists
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of all time, guitar players, taught themselves, never had a lesson.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: When you see your kids getting into something, whether it's
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a sport, whether it's drawing, whether it's building something with Legos,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: wherever it may be, I think it's good to teach
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: them to ask themselves questions. You can start by asking
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: them some of these questions, but I want them to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: learn over time to ask themselves a question like, why
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: do I like this? Why does it matter to me
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: so much? I hate it when people interrupt me. Why
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: is that? What puts me in flow? Why do you
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: like what you like? Why do you like certain experiences?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I think kids are drawn spontaneously on their own to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: areas that engage them. Activities that consume them. I think
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: we all do that. Because then when you do that
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: thing that's consuming you, the activity itself becomes intrinsically rewarding.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: You don't need a prize. You don't need a grade.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You don't need praise. External stuff. Because intrinsically, internally, It
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: feels good. You're totally engaged with what you're doing. You
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: lose yourself. That's flow. So we can teach our kids
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: along the way. What's the context when you're doing something
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: that you love to do? Who are you doing with?
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Are you doing it on your own? Are you doing
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: it with certain kinds of people? Where are you? What
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: are you doing exactly? And why do you like doing it?
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Betty Davis told us why she liked it. She was
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: in complete command of the moment. Duke Ellington wanted to
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: learn how to do ragtime. He wanted to do it
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: on his own. Why do your kids love what they're doing?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: There's going to be moments in their lives all along
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the way when something just seems to click. And you
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: can't plan those moments out. They have to discover those
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: by trying lots of things. That's why I get so
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: frustrated when kids... Tell me that they're one sport and
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: there's no time for the other sports anymore. By the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: time they're 8, 10 years of age now, coaches are
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: telling them, no, you need to focus on my sport.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: You need to focus on your soccer. So they're doing
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: this one sport, oftentimes 10, 12 months of the year.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: They're traveling all the time as opposed to sampling. Doing
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: as David Epstein said in his book, Range, doing a
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: range of things. Because you learn something about yourself whenever
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: you're doing anything, especially if you're drawn to it. So
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: trying lots of activities that you're drawn to. Every time
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: you learn something about yourself and you start building your
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: inner resume, especially if you learn to question yourself, like
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: why do I like this? Where am I when I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: like it? What puts me in flow? Why am I
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: doing this? I think we can teach our kids how
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to ask themselves those questions. We can ask those questions
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: along the way, but I think then they can internalize
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: those themselves. And then they can start to learn about
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: what they're good at and why. I read a story
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: about Rachel Weisel, an Israeli woman who was conscripted into
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the military. And they weren't sure what to do with her.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: She was a good officer. And then she ended up
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: being put into dangerous spots like checkpoints. where the traffic
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: flows in and out of Palestine. You think, why would
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: you put a woman there? Well, she was able to exhibit,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: besides being bright and intense and all that, she also
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: had the feminine qualities of patience and empathy. And those
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: qualities were invaluable at those checkpoints. Women who have those qualities,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: and men too, approach tense situations with more empathy. They
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: show more respect and kindness, and that can save lives
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and save confrontations. They would station women at the front
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: lines of border control in Israel because they excelled at
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: negotiating to avert conflicts. And when they did that, the
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: number of conflicts went way down. So she found out
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: something that she was good at. In that book I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: mentioned before, I mentioned, I think, Range. There's another good
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: book I like called Dark Horse by Todd Rose. And
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: dark horses were people in his mind who who were
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: unexpected victors, who had been overlooked because they didn't fit
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: like the standard notion of a champion in some way, shape,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: or form. And what he found about those dark horses
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: was that all of them valued fulfillment the most. Passion,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: a sense of purpose, being deeply engaged in what they did.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: They lived by the maxim that it's not the pursuit
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: of excellence that leads to fulfillment. Rather, It's the pursuit
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: of fulfillment that leads to excellence. They weren't fulfilled by
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: being really good at something, but rather by being deeply
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: engaged with something that they chose, their thing. That's when
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: they got into flow. And by the way, that's when
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: your children have already and will get into flow. So
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: we can teach our kids to be more self-aware. One
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of my favorite, actually not one of my, my very
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: absolute favorite movie of all time, has always been and
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: still is the Wizard of Oz. And by the way,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: if you get a chance, this past year, my wife
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and I got to go to Vegas to the Sphere,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: and they showed the movie The Wizard of Oz in
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the Sphere. It was unbelievable. You got to see it.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: The movie was on all the walls all the way around.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And the acoustics in there are amazing. Anyway, I love
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the story of The Wizard of Oz. It's like the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: heroine's journey, right? Because this girl, this teenage girl, had
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to pull back the curtain on her limiting beliefs and
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: all the conditionings that she had been brought up with
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: and learn how to look inside to find her power
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and her innermost resources. Dorothy's journey down the yellow brick
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: road starts with her banging her head and falling asleep,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: which is a metaphor, which is alive and well in
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: lots of fairy tales and stories. Think Sleeping Beauty and
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Snow White. So she bangs her head, she falls asleep metaphorically,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: goes inward, and starts accessing her intuitive learning. And her
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: journey down the yellow brick road allowed her to integrate
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: her intuition and her wisdom, i.e. the scarecrow, her compassion, i.e.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: the tin man, her courage to face her fears and
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: to take risks, i.e. the cowardly lion, her spirituality, which
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: was Glinda, the good witch, and also her shadow side,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: which was a wicked witch, and her inner knowing, i.e.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the wizard. So I think something as simple as free
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: play is nature's opportunity to help kids discover who they
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: are and what they love. And to start integrating all
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: of that internally. Free play means they choose. And because
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: they choose it, they're more willing to invest in it.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And when they're more willing to invest in it, they'll
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: invest more if they enjoy it. If they're fulfilled by it.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: And if they're fulfilled by it, they will put the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: time and energy into it that will allow them to
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: become good at whatever it is that they're doing. Free play.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Allowing our kids to have that time to discover things
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: about themselves. What they like. What they're drawn to. What
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: they're interested in. What they're good at. What puts them
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: in flow. If we can teach our kids to do that,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I think our kids will be healthier. And that self-fulfilling prophecy...
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Instead of underestimating our kids' abilities, we're going to be
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: supporting their abilities by allowing them to try different things
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and to be focused on and invested in what they
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: love to do. Check out my website at www.drtimjordan.com, like drtimjordan.com.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You'll see all my, this is, I think, I think
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: this is podcast number 399. Who You can see all
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the old podcasts in there. I have lots of articles.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: You can see information about my weekend retreats coming up
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: this fall. Summer camp dates and things are in there.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: All the things that my wife and I do. Books.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I've written seven books. So you can find all that
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: information on the website. So you can go there. Also,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: as always, please refer these podcasts on to your friends, family,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: people you think would get something out of it. I
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: really appreciate when you do that. I'll be back here
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: in a week with a brand new podcast and a
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: brand new topic. If you have ideas for topics or
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: things you'd like to have me talk about, then you
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: can send me a note through my website. I'm always
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: interested in that as well. I appreciate you stopping by
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: here every week and listening in, and especially when you
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: pass these on. Thank you so much, as always, for
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: stopping by. Thank you.