Latest / The Leader in You / 97. Developing Relentless Empathy to Navigate Team Challenges

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97. Developing Relentless Empathy to Navigate Team Challenges · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paulina, and I co-host this amazing podcast with Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're back.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Dr.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Welcome everyone.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's already middle of July.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you had a wonderful for Independence Day celebration.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: What a what a great celebration it was.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: 250-year anniversary of America.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yay!
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you went on uh an amazing trip around Europe.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was so fun.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: We had a great time.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was very hot, very, very hot.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: We were exhausted from the heat.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we're so excited to be back on the podcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: And today we have a fantastic topic for you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it just happens to coincide with the celebration of 250 years in America and America's birthday.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we are very excited.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, today's topic is going to be about relentless empathy.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had this entire conversation with someone recently about having relentless empathy and the ability for us to do that because a lot of people struggle with having empathy in general in workplace relationships, in any relationships, but specifically workplace relationships and tend to get easily frustrated, easily irritated, difficult time understanding each other.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so relentless empathy comes into play in such an important role in the workplace relationship.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to dive a little bit deeper to understanding what does relentless empathy even mean?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: What is it as a skill, and how could you actually implement some of the tools to expand the skill and to sharpen it so you could have relentless empathy in the relationships that you are building at work?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess I think it's a fantastic topic, especially as leaders.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Leaders are the key attachment figures, and they sometimes definitely have a difficult time to understand why people behave the way they do, and it's hard for them to relate to those emotions.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as well as trainers, you know, trainers put up uh training, they spend so much time of developing something, and then if people are not either attending the training or maybe not using the training, it becomes very difficult for the trainer to feel empathy for those people who are having a hard time.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely it's a great topic to discuss.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think before we get kind of deep into what relentless empathy means, I do notice that a lot of the times people struggle to even understand the difference between like empathy and sympathy.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I hear that a lot, like, oh, I can I can be, I have sympathy, you know, and they don't necessarily understand what it means to have empathy.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't you start by telling us what exactly does that word even mean?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, empathy means you are feeling with the person, you are being with the person's experience.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So in order for for them for us even to understand how to be in the other person's shoes or in their experience, we have to connect.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we have to connect to that emotional part of ourselves and to the other person, so we can actually hold the space for them.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And in order, in order for us to do that, we have to be in balance, we have to also um recognize and see the behavior, the behavior that is the emotion behind the behavior, so we can understand the struggle that people are dealing with when they're not at their best.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to add that I feel like empathy is like um a muscle, it's an emotional muscle.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there is of course priority and focus on health and physical health, and we have a huge awareness in this world on going to the gym and exercising, going for walks and being active, and that movement allows us to stay in motion throughout our entire life and really keep us alive.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's so it's such a good correlation to think of empathy as an emotional muscle.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that emotional muscle you can still strengthen and build just like you would your biceps or your triceps or your thighs or your your you know your abs.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're muscles that as you work every single day using the tools.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like going into the gym and using a you know weight machine to build those muscles or getting on your yoga mat and practicing some yoga or Pilates, those build the strength of your muscles.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: These tools that we're going to be sharing with you today build that empathy muscle, and that allows us to work towards experiencing having the skill to be able to have relentless empathy.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like the word skill, what you're saying, because skill is located.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like if we think about the brain structure, those skills like empathy skills, communication skills, they all are in a prefrontal cortex.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: They are this is where the skills are.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very interesting.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: People think like, oh, people don't have empathy, or they this particular person doesn't have any empathy.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not because they don't have empathy, it's because in the moment when people can't really empathize with the other person is because it's blocked.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it is as important what you're saying that training that muscle to create a higher awareness of that empathy, but also to recognize when we're not able to empathize with the other person, it's because we are out of balance, and our emotional part of our brain is hijacking the prefrontal cortex.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it is that skill is not accessible to us, and so we have to be empathetic to ourselves in those moments and say that it's okay when we get off balance and we can't empathize, doesn't mean we are this horrible leaders or a horrible person.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: We recognize that we are on balance, we can't access those skills, and we can continue to train our muscles so we can regain that balance so we can have access to it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was I had a conversation with a lady who works in a real estate, like a commercial real estate office yesterday.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she said she just recently got hired at this position two months ago, and she was telling me, Oh my gosh, so you won't believe it, Polina.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, when I see the HR girl coming my way, I do not want anything to do with her.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: She doesn't have any experience with the HR girl, but she said, What if, you know, I say something wrong?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: What if I and she starts all these fears she has, and she's like, Okay, just pretend, just put a smile on the face, don't say anything.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And she gets into like this mode where she starts, she just starts panicking, and she goes, Okay, the HR lady is gone.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and she said she's during lunch, she gets really like, oh no.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was talking to me how she wanted to start, you know, making content on social media.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this story's gonna make sense to the topic that we're discussing today.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she said that she went to go sit down.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: At first, she went to go sit down when she first started working, you know, to have a conversation with the HR lady and the HR, just like in the lunchroom, for example.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And she was talking about social media and she was thinking, like, oh my god, like, you know, there's no way I could be posting the content, you know, that I want to post.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if the HR department from the company sees the content that I'm posting, and then I get in trouble from the content that I'm posting.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so she gets so panicked in that moment, yeah, and then she kind of loses all of the ability for her to think clearly, to focus on the tasks that she has at hand.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: She has a team of like 16 realtors that she takes care of.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: So she like gets completely thrown off balance, and then she said, like, it takes like an hour for me to like you know get back to you know, because then there's fear that she's gonna lose her job, and that's you know, so stressful for her.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so definitely that is a very difficult place to be in, yeah.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's where we heading in terms of uh using empathy as a skill and training that as a skill to recognize what triggers me and what's the raw spot that it hits me, and what some of the emotions am I feeling in that moment so we can slow it down, we can reassure ourselves.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um with that story, I wanted to bring it up is because I wanted to kind of lead it into that first step that we can take in order to bring awareness and bring light to what's happening with us.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about this so many times on the podcast, and we repeat it over and over and over and over so that you can hear and start to be curious, you know.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think asking questions too.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is happening with me?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on right now?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Where am I feeling it physically?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: What signs are coming up?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do I feel good physically inside?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do I not feel good?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do I feel uncomfortable?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that just brings me to the thought of another session I just recently had, and then I'll just turn it over to you, Dr.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was asking a gentleman who works um in the marketing field.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was asking him, he he had a situation in his office.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't sure what was going on.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't even notice that there was a situation.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then the few days later, he brought up the situation, like he wanted to do a session about it.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to him, at what point did you notice like you felt like there was something going on?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because we don't understand even what happens to us a lot of the times because it moves so fast, our emotions move so fast, the situation can move so fast.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So to reach for empathy when we're struggling ourselves can be very challenging if we're not aware of the struggling that we are experiencing on our own.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that first step is asking yourself questions.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: What is feeling off for me?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: What is feeling physically difficult in our body in my body?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do I feel tightness in my chest?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do I feel my emotions coming up?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do I feel, you know, kind of like I was jerked to the side?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Or um, so though that is the for very first step to bringing awareness in order for us to understand, define that emotional muscle, is asking those questions.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's in the first step of the form.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: What is triggering me?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes it doesn't even mean that we have to be triggered to already understand that there's something going on.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: If we do the preemptive, it's like preventative medicine, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: If we are looking before the time that we even get upset or stressed or triggered to understand what's happening with us, then that is the first step.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So ask yourself questions, try to see what where am I triggered?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on with me?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I feel feel it physically in my body?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I like about the reconnection form, is it will it helps me to organize that because it gives you a specific quite like details.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is it the words, is it the facial expression, is the tone of voice?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So um, as I as I I'm becoming more aware, and as I was working uh with a team, and I I remember the leader was telling me that oh my gosh, I'm now aware when I start to feel my hair rise up and in my in the back of my neck.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he said that in those moments, I take a breath, I can say to my team, uh, I just need to like a few minutes.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: He goes out into the bathroom and he splashes his face, you know, with water.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he can slowly kind of slow down what's going on for him so he can recognize it and then maybe can process it during uh after the team meeting.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: But he said that that physical uh change in his body helped him to be more aware of when he's getting triggered, and uh he can recognize it and instead of like uh responding very harshly or cutting somebody off, he's able to slow it down, able to kind of like calm himself down and come back to the conversation.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh yeah, and I want to add to that one of the questions I often ask myself and others when we're really trying to inquire at the beginning of what's happening with us is at what point, you know, try to identify at what point the disruption occurred in your emotional state and your physical state, and then what was happening prior to that?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So those two questions I really like.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things the gentleman said that I was working with, he said, you know, like I didn't think about this before, but I'm gonna start using the forms like on my own, where I when I can't make sense of what's going on within me, and before I try to understand what is happening with a conflict with someone else, so that I can get clear and you know, bring awareness to that.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think it's very good because when we get triggered, we respond, we behave, and often we you hear the response coming across as maybe judging somebody or criticizing another person or blaming them, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: That quick response we got triggered, boom, we respond, and now we get lost, we lose that sense of wait a second, slow it down.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on for you?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: How does this what happened impact you?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe it's not that they did it uh in a mean way or they did they did it on purpose, but maybe they did it because um something was happening for them.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh another example, I remember working with that particular one particular team, and uh somebody didn't, you know, created a team meeting and they didn't invite them to the team meeting.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this person got really triggered and they started to have these thoughts, automatic thoughts.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, they did it on purpose, they don't, you know, they don't value me, they don't, they don't respect me, they don't trust me.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, how could they do that?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: My gosh, they're so difficult.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the story just goes on with all the allegations, with all the criticism.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when they had a chance to just kind of like slow down and actually to ask, you know, why they were not invited, the person says, Oh my gosh, I had no idea that you were part of this trade, this project, you you were part of it, and you know, it was completely like a mistake, yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So often sometimes we create these um automatic thoughts that we call, yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, stories and this this catast catastrophic interpretations of the stress that we're getting, and uh it's nice to have it clarity when we can come back and and clarify what has happened and also to share how it impacts us because that's difficult for us in that moment.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think also, you know, I was just while you were speaking, I was kind of thinking back to uh the we were speaking at the conference, the most recent conference that we were at in New Orleans, and one of the ladies in the audience said, you know, I think we even talked about this on one of the other podcasts we did.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, Oh, I would never give, you know, the gift of sharing my emotions or whatever with my colleague or, you know, with my coworker.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that what happens there is that people feel very, because like empathy requires us to know that it's not our fault, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that the other person is struggling.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: But oftentimes it's difficult to choose empathy, like using empathy as an act of choice, like, oh, I'm gonna be empathetic, because we take it personal, we take the response or reaction that someone has towards us in a very personal way, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, or we get affected by that, and I think that makes it difficult to see past the aggression or past the judgment or past the criticism and blaming and shaming, and pick like empathy instead until we really learn to understand that people are struggling, and the and what can be so this is such a simple process, and yet it can come off so complex because you know, we have to change our like very deep-rooted wirings in our brain that we have been having for so long.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like the only way it always comes back to us learning about our own triggers and our own responses and our own protective thoughts and behaviors to have and experience that empathy for others, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we learn that deeply about ourselves, that's where we're like, oh my gosh, like, okay, so that's what I'm feeling.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So then that makes sense that like other people are probably experiencing that as well.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh, sharing sharing vulnerability is very hard for people, and I can I can I can totally understand how scary it is for that person who said I would never give them a gift, right?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: What what is she's really saying?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm hurt by them.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm scared.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared again.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm gonna get hurt again.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: No way am I going to with the way she said, I'm not going to give them the gift, yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Of of sharing my emotions, she's she's basically saying, No way, I'm going to get hurt again.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to give them the ability to hurt me again in that way.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we call a never-again moment.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: That means there's an injury in that relationship.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so by by doing the processing or the organizing the experience, uh, even just the raw the emotions, like we have the surface emotions, right?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Softer emotions and the and primary emotions, and just doing the image, the bodily sensation, and the fears, we are helping ourselves.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I the other day I was triggered um with uh some you know with my husband, and um, and and I said to myself, I'm going to repair that connection because it helps me.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily like I'm going to um, it's not more about the relationship, as it frees me, it makes me stronger, it makes me uh more uh motivated and optimistic to do my very best job that I can do.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: So as we start to recognize the stuck place we are ourselves get into, we start to also see the impact when we do the reconnection, when we process our experience and how we feel.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to another leader yesterday, and he's using the process.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's like Lola, I can't believe it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm becoming so much more um appreciative of my team since I have been using the process.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: I tell them how much I care about them, I tell them how much they matter to me, I tell them how important this is for me, what they are doing.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what is he saying?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's telling them these uh he's telling them that you guys are important to me, and I and I'm there for you, but in order for him to express that from his heart, he has to be free, right?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: He has to be out of that stuck place, and so I think this um this empathy tool comes in handy when you are recognizing that look, we all get stuck, we all have emotions, and when we have a process of regulating and accepting, validating each other's, we become more empowered when we can use that empathy as a tool.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, so nice.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was just kind of reminiscing back on all the times that I've I have, you know, experienced it myself and what a difference it's made in all the relationships in my life.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's yeah, that's so true.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is really, really true.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to reach, but it's worth it's worth the work that it takes to get there.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so let's let's turn a little bit to a different direction because we talked about, you know, empathy being an emotional muscle and the importance of, you know, the first step that you can really take, which is to start becoming curious with yourself.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can use the form, the EMC process and the form to really awaken and bring light to what's happening and organize those emotions so that you can be clear.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: When we feel clear, we feel there's like a big weight lifted.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes, even when you're struggling in a conflict and you don't necessarily feel confident to communicate what's going on with you in that conflict with that specific person that you're in a conflict with, it's good to just clarify those emotions to kind of lift the weight so you have more confidence to communicate what's going on with you, remember, in the most effective way possible, which is what we're wanting to teach you here.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: How can we communicate effectively to create that empathy, that that train that skill so that we know how to bring that empathy into the space when we have conflicts and difficult situations?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, because it is so ingrained in our brain how we do what and what we do, why we do, like the patterns from early childhood, uh the emotional muscle has memory, and we want to be able to rewire the brain in a way to use these effective tools in the moments that we struggle or have conflict.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times I think this is also like what I love about the EMC process, and what makes the EMC process so different than any other process out there is yeah, you can see like, oh, I'm becoming emotionally intelligent, or oh, we're gonna learn how to talk about our emotions.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the actual goal is being able to identify what's going on with you, clearly communicate in a way that's effective, but also implement this same strategy when you are amidst the conflict or when the conflict occurs and we shorten the time of the repair from the conflict to repair.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so because the emotional muscle has memory, there are some other steps that we can take to rebuild, to build that emotional memory into this positive cycle, into this way that we could really respond with empathy as opposed to blaming, judging, shaming, criticizing, and taking it, you know, taking it as a heavy weight on our shoulders.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you want to go over some of the the ways people can practice?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, making implicit explicit.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a very, very important tool.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's basically a transparency, right?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Being transparent with your emotions, with your experience.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: So when you feel maybe stuck, you can, you know, or you feel attacked somehow, you, or you can see that the team is is attacking each other or somehow criticizing each other, you can uh explicitly state what's going on.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: You can like that uh identify the steps in the dance.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we call we are reflecting what we see.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it, you know, you could say that I feel like there's a bit of attack going on, and maybe we can slow it down because you are all saying the same very important things, and so I hear that when um you know Mary said um this particular statement, I get that it was uh maybe difficult for you, and when you responded that way, it was difficult for Kent.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I hear that there's going back and forth of attacking, but you guys um are very important, and maybe we can just slow it down to understand what's happening right here, right now.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: So by reflecting the steps in the dance, you are externalizing the problem.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: You are basically saying you are both are very important, you have valid experience, and I just want to call it out what's going on, so we maybe we can slow it down and and catch the moments before it gets really um, you know, people say hurtful things to each other, and the negative cycle takes over.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because the negative cycle starts when people are using protection, and the protection could be criticism, judgment, blame, defend, or withdraw, defend, distance, shut down.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: All of these steps, all of these strategies that's what we call, are ineffective way of regulating your emotions.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one of the tools we can use trans uh empathy to use as a transparency.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think also the form brings that awareness as well in the different sections of the form.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes instead of going through the entire form in a situation, I just do like one section of it.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I will do step one, two, or three just to identify what are the triggers, what are the raw spots, what are the emotions.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because remember, when we're holding on to all those emotions, we're not able to identify clearly what's going on.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes very, very, very heavy.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this is exactly why people get easily frustrated.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: They get easily triggered.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they maybe have what seems like a bad attitude, or they feel, you know, maybe like they're unhappy, or it's difficult to talk to them.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or so all of these signs just really mean that they are stacking a lot of emotions and raw spots that have not been, there's no space.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: There have not been any space created for that experience of those emotions.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So going through just like the first three steps is also such a fantastic tool.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let me see what identified the truth identified the trigger, and then let's identify the raw spots and let's identify clearly what the emotions are.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that is very, very effective in just getting through those first difficult moments that can be really, really challenging to kind of bring light to.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: I actually like what you're saying because I was doing a team session with uh 10 people on the Zoom, and um there was a change in their in their team, and people basically got very impacted by by by that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And as I was asking them what triggered you in that particular change, one person says, Oh, I didn't get triggered, you know, I got the text message and I just moved on on by the day.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: But then we asked the raw spots, you know, I asked like raw spots identifying and then the emotions, and when we got to fears, that particular person says, Oh, I had fear about this and I had fear about that, and and so and and and what what it tells us is that when we just ask what triggered you, people might not even be aware that they got triggered.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I got a text message and I moved on, but then when they had a chance to process emotions, it's almost like takes a slowdown, it's talking to them amygdala at that moment.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we talk about in the moment when the amygdala uh hijacks the prefrontal cortex.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: What are we doing with that emotional processing?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: We actually talking to them amygdala, and slowly as we are articulate every every emotion on the page, we are allowing the amygdala to relax, and suddenly the person who is recognizing they actually did get triggered, they actually did notice the fears and and all the stuff.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that was, I mean, that that was very insightful for that person.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing, and also I think that you know, one of the things that I want to add in there is that when we choose empathy, oftentimes people think that is like a validation for behavior or action, you know, or something that happened.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it can be you can feel empathetic towards someone and say, you know, gosh, that must have been really difficult for you.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't mean that you're agreeing or validating or confirming that what they did was okay or what they did was, you know, acceptable.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think that's that I think people get stuck with also when it comes to empathy.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this really interesting because, especially in the workplace, I think we can empathize with someone who is struggling and at the same time maybe not align with the company values, you know, and their behavior, for example.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that I love this topic, and I feel like we can maybe even dive deeper into it on next week's podcast because it's like people oftentimes go to like, well, how is someone gonna take accountability?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: How is someone gonna take responsibility for the actions?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, almost like they're looking for someone to say, it was my fault, you know, it's my fault, I did it wrong, you know, I made a mistake, and this is how I'm going to correct it, right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of like in general, I feel like what's expected in society of how to resolve an issue, or it's it's my fault, I take responsibility, I get written up, I get written up, or I get fired.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think empathy is such a powerful way to understand what the struggles that you're going through, and also the struggles that the other person in the experience is going through as well, not necessarily validating or accepting behavior that could be harmful.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that is such an important point because empathy does not uh eliminate the responsibility of doing their job.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Empathy is recognizing how difficult it can be in those moments when the person is not able to do their job and what what happens to them in that moment.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I see it over and over again when people feel like the other person gets how difficult it is, they automatically create that motivation to do their job.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, if people are consistently being late, what does it tell us?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: It tells us there's a disconnection happening in the relationship, there's a disconnection happening where they start to feel not valued, not heard, not respected, not important, and they have the hesitation, it's like a block.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: They there's a block for them to show up on time, or there's a block for them to do something that they are supposed to be doing, and they're not doing it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, whenever we are looking at the behavior that we want to change, we're not telling them why did you come late?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: We are saying, like, what's going on in the relationship that is causing them to be late?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: We understand that attachment and emotions is what drives the motivation to do the things they're supposed to be doing.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: So as people actually um work on the relationship and create more security in the relationship, the behavior starts to change and people start to show up on time, they start to uh complete their tasks, and even when they can't, they communicate that and say, you know what, I don't think this job is for me.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then they themselves make the decision to move on, too.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's increasing what it helps us is to really use the x-ray vision, so to speak, to see the struggle behind when the there's a disconnection or those attachment needs underneath the behavior are not being met.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's amazing.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing to really uncover and discover what is going on, and the the we become confident and we have this incredible power to really work that emotional muscle to strengthen ourselves and our relationships.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I also love that this skill is we're like kind of at the beginning of the breakthrough of emotional.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is very empowering because once people learn to use attachment framework to see the relationship, the behavior, the motivation that's got that is needed for a company to be successful, you are you become on target on how to fix those issues.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: You no longer try to um you know throw things uh and see whatever sticks.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: You really understand and you go right to the heart of the matter, which makes the trainer, the leader, the um the whole team much more effective in dealing with challenges.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, is there anything else that you'd like to add?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think no, I think we did we have covered it.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you everyone for joining us today.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your continued desire to become better in the workplace and to learn about your emotions.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Emotions are so powerful, and we are feeling beings.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is not something that you may or may not want to do.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is something you need to do to become the best version of yourself.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, you can go to emcleaders.com, find out more information on our courses, how to get trained, how to be an emc certified leader or trainer.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we're available here to help you resolve your conflicts and create the most thriving environment for your work.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining, and we'll see you next week.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being here.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to check out our previous podcast and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of the leader in you, brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you soon.