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The Power of Self-Compassion · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Welcome to Gaiman going deeper, a podcast series by the Gaiman's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. We are your hosts. Michael Diorio is a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence. Reno Johnson is a spiritual life, love and business coach. And I am Matt Lancital, a counselor and facilitator specializing in healing and empowerment. So we each have our own private practice and in this podcast we are sharing all of our best stuff. So today we're talking about self compassion. It's a very yummy topic and I think most of us as human beings need to learn how to master this fine art of being kind to ourselves. So the questions we're going to be exploring are what does self compassion mean to you? What gets in the way of you having compassion for yourself? And how do you practice self compassion? We will continue these discussions as usual on the last Thursday of every month in the Gaiman's Brotherhood Zoom hangout, where you will have a chance to share your own experiences. The podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. If you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. You can also subscribe to the early access option on Apple Podcasts, listen ad free and gain early access to episodes. All your support helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community, and we do thank you in advance for that. And lastly, if you're looking to accelerate your personal development journey, check out our coaching collection so you can learn how to heal and empower yourself at your own pace by getting instant access to 45 plus premium personal development coaching videos created by us as well as our healing your shame and building better relationships courses so you can head over to gay men going deeper.com for more info on that. All right, self compassion. This is all just be very transparent. This is something that I still struggle with. It's been something I've struggled with my whole life. From my perspective, it is the opposite of shame. Self compassion. Shame is about self animosity and really not liking ourselves, feeling that there's something wrong with us. And then self compassion is what we use to actually anecdote the shame. So I just see it simply as the ability to be kind to ourself. It's the practice of self kindness. And like I said, most people struggle with this when it comes to directing the compassion inward. But I think a lot of people are really good at this outwardly having compassion for other people. So I want to just start there, because I think sometimes it's a big jump going from compassion to having compassion for ourselves. I think a lot of people can relate to compassion, just what that means. So I see compassion as a set of things, and I'll read them out to you here. So compassion for another involves deep empathy, taking action to help somebody. I see empathy and compassion differently. In that sense, empathy is we're with somebody in the experience, and then compassion is more that we are doing something to help somebody. Right. When we're in a state of compassion, we're more compelled to want to take action to help alleviate this person's suffering. There's a strong desire in compassion to ease another's distress or pain. We're hearing and we're seeing them, so we're showing them that their pain is known to us and ensuring they feel supported in their suffering. We're refraining from judgment. We're trying not to fix them or solve them, but being with them as they are. And we're helping them connect to their own inner wisdom when we're practicing compassion. Right? So I want you to, and I want the listener viewer to just close your eyes for a second, and I want you to think about the last time that you felt compassion for somebody. And I want you to just feel into that. Feel into what it feels like to have compassion for this person. What does it feel like to have compassion? Where do you notice it? In your body? And I want you just to recognize and see if you've ever had this feeling towards yourself noticing anything in your body or in your mind that shifted when you brought the attention from somebody else to yourself. Does it make it more difficult? And if so, just observe that so you can open your eyes and just come back to the experience with the three of us. And I think that was important to do because I think I want people to be able to be in that embodied experience of what compassion feels like and to be able to just be able to recognize and see. Is there any sort of resistance to being able to apply that same sort of compassion to myself? And I think one of the first steps of compassion is to be able to find the part of us that needs compassion and identify that part and then ask ourselves, how can we serve that part of us? Right? There's many different parts in all of us, and there's the higher self wisdom, and there's the lower self wisdom, and there's the inner child, there's the shadow sides. We have all these parts, and the part of us that we use to apply self compassion is the heart centered, more wise part of us. Right. Some of you might remember from the inner child episode, me sharing that I have these two people inside of me, and I have this very wounded inner child that I'm still healing and working through. And then I have this father energy. And that father energy is where I tend to share my wisdom from and where I counsel from and these sorts of things. But that doesn't negate that I have this other part of me that is still hurting. Right. So I wanted to really make that clear. It's like we can practice compassion for ourselves when we separate ourselves from the person that needs compassion and we start to connect with this higher wisdom. Very possible, very easy. Not very easy, but very doable to make this happen. So I kind of almost look at it as, like we're personifying the two parts of us, one that needs compassion and one that can give compassion. Okay, so the person that you were connecting with that was giving compassion to the person in your thought is this person. This is the higher you that is capable of compassion. Right. And sometimes when we're in a place of not being able to give compassion or we're judgmental of people, we're probably usually in that lower part of us that doesn't feel like we're getting compassion from the world, so we don't want to give it if we're not receiving it. It's very much an ego energy. Okay. So I kind of look at it as there's three things that are kind of included in the self compassion umbrella. Um, again, the first one is awareness. So we need to be aware of what part of us needs compassion, what we need compassion for. Um, so a couple questions I thought of were, what is causing me to have animosity with myself right now? Why am I hard on myself and looking at befriending that inner bully? Right? Because that inner bully feels scared, feels resentful, disappointed, and we need to kind of befriend that part of us, and then we can start to offer compassion. The next one is self kindness. So, some questions that can help explore self kindness is how can I be more gentle with myself right now? How can I show up for myself in ways that support who I'm becoming rather than punishing myself for who I wasn't or was, whatever that is for you? And then the last one, which, from my perspective and in my experience, because I've struggled with a lot of shame and trauma in my life, is allowance. So I practice the art of giving myself radical permission, which is space to be as I am. Even if I find myself in the most terrible mood, cranky as fuck, hating on everybody, I will just say, I'm going to give myself permission to be in this place right now. And that, for me, is the space where self compassion can start to come in and transform my experience. So I practice the authentic principle of welcoming everything, letting go of preferences for who I think I need to be or should be, and accepting myself for who I am in any given moment. I think that's been my practice of self compassion through what I call allowance or radical permission, whatever you want to call it. And I would be remiss if I did not mention shadow work when talking about self compassion, because through shadow work, we actually meet the parts of us that we feel that we've rejected, split from that we don't like about ourselves. And when we start to integrate those parts, it makes it easier to find compassion, kindness, love for ourself. So shadow work's been a big part of my journey as well, which we can talk a bit more about throughout the episode. So I feel like I've answered, you know, what does self compassion mean to me? I would love to hear from each of you two what self compassion means to you. And why don't, for this episode, we'll start with Michael.
• 10:26
  Speaker B: All righty. Thank you, Matt. Lovely intro. So informative. I think our audience will get a lot out of that. I sure did. And I like that embodiment practice. That was really nice. It definitely stimulated some stuff with anything that I want to share.
• 10:37
  Speaker A: Cool. Yeah, I'm glad.
• 10:39
  Speaker B: Okay, so for me, self compassion, I'll start with kind of my literal definition. For me, it falls under the greater umbrella of self love and a lot of these other selves. Specifically, it is the subset of self love that is about tending to my emotional pain and suffering. That's how I look at self compassion, and there's a lot of ways to practice it, which we'll get into for sure. And you, I like, I like how you started off by saying there's. There's lots of ways to practice as well. Like, that's the fun part, I think, for our viewers and listeners is if you're not sure what self compassion looks like in means, we're going to give you a lot of tips today on how to do that. But for me, it's the practice of treating myself so much what you had said with the exact same kindness, care, and understanding as I would for my best friend, as any loved one, even my like pet. If they were in emotional pain or suffering. Um, and that, again, can be a lot of different things. It could be validating your feelings. It could be comforting yourself or providing yourself with soothing. Right. Like you had said, I'm going to give myself permission to, to feel this way. I'm going to welcome everything. These are all wonderful ways to practice self compassion. I don't know if you know who, if you guys know who Kristin Neff is, but she has a lot of work on this. And her model of self compassion is one that I love. And I use a lot with my clients when I'm teaching them that, the skill set. But it's basically, she says that there's, you know, the internal yin model of self compassion, which is inwards. It's taking care of your own emotional needs, soothing yourself, calming yourself down when you're in emotional pain and struggle, validating yourself. And then there's the yang side of self compassion, which is kind of like more of the doing, which is a bit more actionable. So protecting yourself from your own pain and from others, providing for yourself, giving yourself what you need, even motivating yourself, being your own cheerleader, that kind of thing. So those are kind of the, those are the models that I like to look at for self compassion. I'm excited to get into more. So, like, personally, how we practiced it, which we can get into a bit later, but, yeah, that's me. How about you, Reno?
• 12:38
  Speaker A: Thanks, Michael.
• 12:40
  Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. Juicy, juicy topic. I think for me, what came up around self compassion was, well, first and foremost, this idea of being with, being with. And I really like what I feel in my body. And Matt, thank you so much for inviting us earlier to connect to the body, to take that moment, to really connect to the body and to connect to our experience. Because to me, that, like, epitomizes the practice of self compassion. That is a foundational piece of the practice of self compassion, one's capacity to be with, to be with themselves, to be with what is to be present in the moment. And as I was reflecting on this question, there were, there were like, a few components that I looked at when it came to self compassion. There's meeting, greeting, beating, and then responding and regulating. So to be human is to experience. And we'll probably talk a bit more about this when we get into some of the other questions. But I, my experience is that what happens when I'm experiencing is that there are all sorts of other things that creep in, whether it's socially, environmentally, intellectually, emotionally, etcetera. And when that's happening. Not only does that contribute to my experience, but it can also deter from it. And so. And I'm sorry, I'm just. I'm processing my thinking right now. What I've seen is that in those moments, my responsibility is to meet. Is to meet what's present, is to meet what's there, to then greet it, that is, to acknowledge it, to say hello to it. It's like, okay, I am having an experience. There's an experience that is present to then be with it, not to judge it, not to change it, not to tweak it, but just to allow it to be there and then to respond to it and following that, to invite a sort of regulation to happen. So that, for me, is kind of like what self compassion looks like. Yeah, I'll leave it there. I'll leave it there. That's what I've got to say. Thanks.
• 15:52
  Speaker A: I love how you honor yourself and just slow yourself down and really connect inward to what needs to be shared. Take all the time. You never have to say thank you.
• 16:02
  Speaker C: Yeah. Because it's tricky. It's a lot question. You know, it's a loaded question. Like, what does self compassion mean? And I really wanted to connect to, like, I. You know, I looked at how it was defined, and I also wanted to connect to, like, how I relate to it personally, you know, and how I would break it down for myself.
• 16:25
  Speaker B: So.
• 16:25
  Speaker C: Yeah, thank you.
• 16:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's why I value you so much on this podcast, because you bring a different tempo than, say, unlike Michael and I. Michael and I are a bit more cerebral. You're more embodied. I think you bring that slower tempo, which is very important, and it actually balances probably Michael and I out, too. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Let's move into the next question. So what gets in the way of you having compassion for yourself? So do you guys want to go first and then I'll go at the end or.
• 16:59
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 16:59
  Speaker A: Okay. So why don't you go, Mike? Yeah.
• 17:02
  Speaker B: I love this question. And what came up for me as you guys were just sharing now, is that for me, I guess this is a bit of a tangent before answering the question, but it is completely related, correlated to self confidence, and I'll explain how that works. So as I develop my skill of self compassion, and I have done a good job of that, I don't beat the shit of my. Beat the shit out of myself anymore like I used to. Right. So if I'm not going to beat the shit out of myself anymore, what that means is I'm going to do more in the world that I want to do. I'm going to be more me. I'm going to express myself more authentically. I'm going to take more risks. I'm going to fail. I'm going to get rejected. I'm going to try. I'm going to fail again. But it's fine. It's all fine, because as I've developed that skill of self compassion, I am my own soft place to land. I will not beat the shit out of myself emotionally. I will not judge and shame myself. Now, I do, of course, I'm not perfect, but I can kind of bring myself back into that more self compassionate spot. So when people say, oh, you know, you're so unapologetic and you show up so shamelessly, all these things, it's like, yes, because even with all of the hate that I might get or all of the, even if I do fall flat on my face when I do, it's not the end of the world. So I wanna make that point for people who see self confident people, authentically self confident people, I bet you they have developed a very good practice of self compassion if we look deep inside, if we look under the hood. But let's answer the question here. So, yes, I'm not always good at it. I have developed a skill. What gets in the way is my inner critic. Absolutely. I have a very loud, as we've talked about before, inner critic, he is nasty. He is mean, he's got a sharp tongue, and he just, you know, what he does sometimes is like, he kind of just like, I'm going about my day. Like, oh, that's a nice trio. That's a nice dog. Or, we got to do this today. And then, like, you're such a shithead. And then just like, just sneaks in there. I'm like, what the was that? Who was that? I just said that. So I have this, this deep inner critic, and, um, he gets in the way. I've learned to love him. I've learned to have some compassion for him because I know why he's there and I know what he's trying to do, even though he's a bit misguided in his, in his actions. Um, but, yeah, I would say that my inner world is a balance of this, you know, self compassionate, nurturing, comforting, soothing version of me, inner voice, rather. And then this more critical one, a more judgmental one, and so that one wants to beat me up. So if I'm feeling any kind of emotional pain, whatever that may be, whether it's rejection or failure, self doubt, shame. He kind of wants to pile it on me, like, just kind of, like, sinking in it. That's what feels to me. So, when we did that embodiment and I thought of what shame feels like, it's this, like, slow sinking feeling, and the compassion is this more expansive feeling. Um, and that, like, even my body just changes. Like, I just. My chest lifts up versus contracting. Right. So that's the biggest obstacle for me. And learning to maintain that in team. And I will say this. It's. It's not about getting rid of that voice. It really isn't. Everyone has it. I think everyone that I've talked to, if you study the most successful people, the happiest people, they all have that voice. It's really how they relate with it and how they talk back to it if they have to talk back to it. Sometimes it is kind of advocating for yourself against the voice and saying, hey, listen, like, enough. We're not doing that right now. I will say that to myself. Like, I will ask that loud. Say, okay, enough of that. Like, when I. When I'm going down the spiral. Shame spiral, or sometimes it's meeting yourself where you are and, you know, giving yourself permission to be angry or giving yourself permission to be frustrated or whatever.
• 20:44
  Speaker A: It is that is.
• 20:45
  Speaker B: So, yeah, I think learning to talk back to that voice has been the greatest lesson and still my biggest obstacle, because he is very loud and he is very pushy.
• 20:56
  Speaker A: I have a question for you. Yeah. What do you think this inner critic in you needs?
• 21:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. He needs safety. He needs love. He's afraid. At the end of the day, I've done a lot of work with him. He's afraid, and he's trying to protect me. He's trying to protect me from getting hurt. He's trying to protect me from everything that I'm with one part of my brain wanting, like, vulnerability, for example. Right? If I want to be vulnerable and I want to connect, I need to put myself out there and take that risk. But this inner critic will show up and be like, no, no, no. We got to protect you, honey. We can't do that. He doesn't call me honey. We got to protect you. And then he'll kind of prevent me from being vulnerable, or maybe he'll show up with more of a wall, an emotional wall.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I relate to what you're sharing. Yeah. What about you, self Reno? Yeah.
• 21:46
  Speaker C: Yeah. So, I want to take a moment. I want to take a moment, because when. When I was answering the first question, I noticed, and I've shared this in previous episodes, I like to. I like to take notes and to prepare for these conversations. And simultaneously, what I understand about myself is that, like, when I speak from the heart, I do really well. And so I had to practice compassion in that moment because I noticed that I lost my train of thought. And then I started feeling all kinds of nervousness and judgment about that. Like, oh, no, I messed up. And there was a moment, and you witnessed it, where I took time to slow down and to tune into my body and the experience of anxiousness that I was having and just noticing the judgment and the, oh, shit, that was happening and letting it be there and then just finding my way back to center and to what I wanted to communicate. So that was an example of, you know, of a compassionate moment as far as what gets in the way of me having compassion for myself. There are things like assumption, comparison, judgment, perfection, shame, guilt, memory, trauma, and then environment. And the environment piece can either hinder compassion or it can enhance it. And it really depends on the sort of environment I'm exposing myself to. And I'm in the practice of, to the best of my ability, creating an environment that supports compassion and is compassionate, whether that's my relationships or the content I'm consuming or the conversations that I'm engaged in and the relationships I'm cultivating, even my physical space. What I find gets in the way of compassion the most for me is probably, I'm going to say it's perfection. I'm going to say it's perfection. That's a big one. I really sort of pride. I mean, pride and perfection, even. I would say I really pride myself on being well spoken and well put together and someone who carries himself well, etc. Etcetera. And it took me some time to really pick up on this, but I started to see that how I'm being perceived is really important to me. And when I am not living up to those standards that I have created and or internalized, I can be a real asshole to myself. I can be real, real terrible toward myself in a way that I wouldn't be toward my child if I had one. For example, I'm not always so great at giving myself the same grace that I would give somebody that I loved, somebody that I cared about, somebody that I was guiding or supporting. So I would say that that and that list of things that I just mentioned are what gets in the way of me having compassion for myself. Yeah.
• 25:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you that was beautiful how you did that. There's a practice in authentic relating called revealing your experience. And you just did a perfect example of that at the beginning of your share here and just revealing what you just experienced. And that happens to all of us. Happened to me yesterday. It happens in client sessions. Like, I always lose my train of thought, it seems, especially the last few years, about a lot of my mind. So, yeah, thank you for that, because it gives us space, because that's an anxiety I bring into all of these meetings, and especially when, like, on here or when I'm on lives and things like that. What if I lose my train of thought and I forget what I'm talking about? It's a huge anxiety of mine. So you just gave me space to let go of that, a little bit of that fear. Right? Because if it happens to me, it's like, it's okay, right?
• 26:18
  Speaker C: That's beautiful. Yeah. And you. And you held, like, what I love about this space and what you just said, and even the way you responded and met what was happening for me, like, to me, that is an example of compassion. You extended compassion to me, and this is a compassionate space. So thank you. Yeah.
• 26:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, you're welcome. And I think that's why empathy, I think, is the birthplace of compassion, because it's like, I see you. I felt what you're feeling, so I want to step forward, and I want to help you not feel that. Right? Like, I think it's. It's great. So, yeah, I could almost just say second to what both of you guys said. We have a very, you know, shared similar experience. Um, you know, a lot of things are coming through, even in this. Um, I remember my very first memory. Like, very first memory. Okay. Not just shameful memory. My very first memory was, um, I was about probably four or five years old. I remember being in the garage in my house, and I walked up to my dad, and I pulled my pants down, and I had a boner. And I was like. I was like, dad, something's happening. What's going on here? And he started laughing so hard, and he's like. He's like, oh, go ask your mom. Go ask your mom. So I run to ask my mom, she starts laughing, and poor me, I'm, like, in this state of shame, thinking they're laughing at me and that there's something wrong with me. So it totally. My very, very first experiences in my life were around shame. And then as soon as I started to realize I was gay, which was around that same time, maybe five, six years old, I started to internalize shame. There's something wrong with me. So, for sure, it's shame. That's the thing that gets in the way of having compassion for myself. But now it's actually ego, which would probably be an extension of inner critic or inner critic being an extension of ego. It's trying to protect me. And my ego has all these mechanisms that it's built to try and protect me, which is things like perfectionism don't be seen in anything other than perfect, right? So where's the space for making mistakes? Where's the space for having compassion for yourself if you're always perfect, right? So my ego would be the biggest one, for sure. It is the culprit that doesn't allow me to have compassion for myself. And I'm really learning how to soften my ego. The last few years, probably four years, I've been humbled. I have eaten a lot of humble pie, and it's been very painful, but it's been a. A part of my liberation. And I think we practice compassion for ourselves from a place of humility, realizing that we are messy, and the human experience is messy as fuck, right? And when we can recognize that, it's easier for us to have compassion for ourselves. And that's kind of where I'm at right now in my life. And it's beautiful, but it can be very painful. Um, and then through these. Through a lot of the shame that I experienced in my life and a lot of the trauma, I developed. Um, core wounds or self limiting beliefs. I think these ones are really big, and I want to read some of them off here for you guys because, um. A lot. Well, not a lot. I would say. Every single human being on this planet carries these in our subconscious. Not all of them. We might only have one of the ones that I'm going to list, or we might have ten, or we might have 15. But the. These are the most common core beliefs or. Or self limiting core beliefs or core wounds that we carry. I'll just read them out to you guys. So I am not enough. I am abandoned or alone. I am unloved. I am bad. I am weak. I am unsafe. I am stupid. I am unworthy. I am helpless. I am unseen or unheard. I don't matter. Something is wrong with me. I am defective. I don't belong. I am disliked or I am excluded. I am unimportant. I am disconnected. I am or will be betrayed. I am disrespected. I am rejected. I am trapped or stuck. And I am powerless or have no control. When I started doing core wound work or subconscious belief reprogramming, I started out with about 15 of those. Okay, so I carried a lot of these in my subconscious, and I had to create that bridge in between my subconscious and my conscious to do this work, because the conscious mind will tell us through ego that we don't have any of those. So people even listening, you might be like, oh, I don't have any of those, because we don't want to have any of those. So, of course our ego is going to come in and protect us. But when we start to connect with the subconscious and observe our behavior and our emotions, we start to actually connect with some of these. These core wounds. So for me, again, it just plays into how ego really, really protects us in an adaptive way until it becomes maladaptive. Because ego is the thing that doesn't allow us to actually heal. Right. So that's been a big part of my journey, is really connecting with my ego, befriending it, working with it, and then it becomes more flexible, and then it allows me to start to have compassion for myself. Yeah. And then one of the other ones would probably be over focusing on other people, because having compassion for myself, I'm really good at having compassion for other people, probably too good at having compassion for other people, that it leads me astray sometimes. And I focus on everyone else, and I don't focus on myself. And that comes from codependency, in my opinion. And I think learning how to pull the attention away from everyone else and over focusing on everyone elses needs, which is likely an adaptation to trying to find safety in our upbringing when were younger. Right. Its like, ive got to be the one that mitigates and tends to everyone elses needs in my environment, so then I can restore safety within myself. So we learn that tending to everyone else creates safety for self. But it doesnt allow us to go that next step to have compassion for ourself, because our only concern is just finding safety, restoring equilibrium, where I think self compassion is about going beyond that equilibrium to something more expansive. Like you said, michael, like opening up, not just finding that equilibrium. So part of my path, too, has been about healing, codependency, and learning how to show up for myself and these sorts of things. So, yeah, this is a big topic. It's so alive for me right now, too, in my life. Like, I'm really learning this in a big way. Um, yeah, it's powerful shit.
• 32:48
  Speaker B: Have we done this topic before?
• 32:50
  Speaker A: We have, yeah. And it's been, I think it's been two years. And just, like, the last two years has been so expansive for me that I'm like, I'm meeting this from a completely different place, energetically, emotionally, cerebrally, you know?
• 33:01
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 33:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker C: It never gets old, either. Like, we could have this conversation over and over and over again every year. We, we could have it every month, and it would never get old because compassion never gets old. And I think that, you know, we like life and compassion. You know, like, you just, we need it. We need it always. And those daily reminders. The other thing I wanted to say as well is that, you know, consider this. Like, if compassion wasn't a modeled and it wasn't something that you experienced when you were younger or for, you know, during those, like, developmental and foundational periods of real life, those earlier years, like, how would you know what it is and how would you, how would you be able to extend it to yourself or another person? Like, if you haven't seen it, if you haven't experienced it and you don't know it, like, give yourself some grace, you know? And again, even me saying that, I'm like, well, and if you don't even know what it means to give yourself some grace, well, you're probably going to struggle with that. And so, you know, it's like, I empathize with you. I hold you in compassion. If you're listening to this right now, and that's your experience, you're like, I don't even know what that means. I don't know what it feels like. I've never, I've never seen it. I'm completely clueless. It's like, well, we're glad you're here. You know? We're glad you're here.
• 34:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Good point. And I think it's something that we learn, just like empathy. I think some people come into this world with innate empathy, but I think a lot of it is learned behavior. And I think compassion, too. And, you know, I have two parents. I love them to death, but they're very hard on themselves. And in some instances, they were very hard on me because they're hard on themselves. Right. So I didn't learn self compassion. I didn't learn self esteem, because these are two things my parents really struggled with as well, so those weren't modeled to me. Right. So I've had to really learn and develop these things on my own. Yeah.
• 35:08
  Speaker B: And I think it also helps when other people do it for you because then you can see it, like, when you're on the receiving end of it. And then I say, okay, like we talked about at the beginning, like, what would you give your loved one, your best friend, your little puppy dog, if it was going through emotional pain? Like, treat yourself with that same way. And in that sense, I think people can be like, okay, we just gotta turn that thing that I give outward, inward, or the thing that I've received from my best friends and loved ones and give that to myself. Learn how to do that for myself.
• 35:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. All right, last question. Is there something you wanted to say, Michael?
• 35:44
  Speaker B: No. That's good.
• 35:45
  Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So how do you practice self compassion, Michael?
• 35:51
  Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, I have a bit to say on this one. You guys know I love giving you real life examples. So I would say most of the time it's going to be with kind of what Reno has said. And Matt, you're the same way. Like, if I listen to this podcast back, or if I'm watching something on my social media, or, I don't know, something that I've done, and, like, in my mind, it's just critical. Like, why did you say that? Why, like, why do you sound like that? Why can't you sound more like blah, blah, blah? So, like, I fucked that up where I meant to say this and I said that instead, or, oh, shit, I'm going to really piss somebody off because I said something I shouldn't have said. It's a lot of that kind of showing up in my business, but I've done some work on there, but it still shows up all the time. Trust and believe. Even. Even when I do like something that people think is great, even if you guys give me the validation, I will still find ways to pick it apart. So finding self practicing in that sense is really, you know, it's okay. You're fine. Like, you're, you know, just talking myself off that ledge. Um, and that it's okay. And that even if I did fuck it up, it's not the end of the world. What's the lesson to learn from this? Let's move on. Right? Not dwelling in it, that's one way I like to practice self compassion, is not letting myself, because I could go down that spiral and stay there for a long time. Shame spiral. So part of self compassion for me is like, okay, okay, honey, let's go. You've had your time in the. In the shame sandbox. Let's get out of here. Right? So that's part of what I do day to day. Recently, though, I had an example of something that is a bit more heavy. And I was going through my breakup with star months ago. So anyone who's been through a breakup knows that there's a lot of pain process in that. So some of the feelings that I had felt in that immediate aftermath and thereafter, and still do to some, to some degree, is loss, grief, sadness, shame, disappointment, failure, anger, even frustration. All of these things. So when I refer to self compassion, my definition was of. It was the aspect of self love, where you tend to your emotional pain. So breakup. Anyone who's been through one wonderful time to practice self compassion. So what it doesn't look like, and maybe what I used to do or maybe what some of you out there might do if you are not well practiced in this skill, is numbing it away. I feel pain. I'm going to numb it away. So for me, that would be drinking, partying, going on, grinders, working, even, like, oh, I'm just going to flood myself with work so I don't have to feel it. So I don't. Yeah. So I don't have to feel my feelings. Okay, that's. That's numbing. Denying it is. No, I'm good. I got this. Yeah, I'm a rockstar. No problem. Like, I don't. I don't feel anything. It's fine. Like, all this kind of. It's fine, which is. Sounds good, but you need to have a space there where you do allow that pain to be there. And then the other side of it, for me, would be like, judging myself again, that's that inner critic of me, which is, why do you feel this way? Why are you still sad about this? Like, you get over this already. Why are you still there? This is very judgmental. So the way to practice self compassion and what I did through this, and I must say, as terrible as a breakup is, I really saw the growth in myself from this breakup to the last one I had, which was maybe four years ago, very different. Very, very different. Still equally, actually, id say this one was more painful, but I handled it in such a different way, and I was so proud. I am so proud of myself for my self compassion. So with all these feelings, I felt scared, disappointed, sad, lonely. I was my own BFF. Through it, of course, I went to support. I went to get my support externally for my friends and family and those who could and were willing to, but sometimes they weren't there. Sometimes when it's, you know, midnight and you're in bed and you're alone and you want to cry because the guy who was there beside you for three years isn't there anymore. It's really sad. And you want to cry, and so I cried, and that's that. Having a lot of self talk. You know, that I have a very, like, you met very. A lot of self talk and a lot of dialogue and just noticing what that is. Right. So it's holding myself through it, being my own source of comfort, like a lot of. And it depends. It really depends. Sometimes it's, baby, you got this. I do talk to myself that way. Sometimes it's like, you know, it's okay, let it out. It really depends. Like that. Yin and yang. Sometimes it's more encouraging and motivational. Sometimes it's more soothing and comforting. And there's a lot of validating feelings as well. So instead of judging my feelings, it was, of course I'm lonely. Of course I'm afraid. Of course I'm sad. Who wouldn't be sad? Who wouldn't be afraid? Who wouldn't feel this way right now? Like, this is totally normal. I feel lonely. Yes. That's exactly how you should be feeling. You should be feeling lonely right now. There's nothing wrong with it. So being my own. Being, my own soft place to land, as they say, in my own heart and in my own mind, so that I can process the pain, not deny it, not numb it, be sad, reach out for support, which is, I know, kind of the oxymoron of self compassion, but where I can get support from others do that. But if that's not available, then to do it myself. So that was a very big test for me and my self compassion. I'm proud to say that I think I've done a really good job of it.
• 40:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's beautiful. Thanks for sharing that. There's an artist, a musician. His name is Trevor hall. Some of you might know who he is. And he has a song called you can't rush your healing. And I just. It made me think of that because it's like, truly, like, when you're lonely and you need to feel loneliness, you're going to have to feel loneliness. You got to go through that, right? It's like trudging through the swampy waters. And when we try and rush through that or bypass steps, that is an act of. Of self animosity, actually. Right? We're like, I don't want to be here. So I love that you're giving yourself space. Yeah.
• 41:30
  Speaker B: It's like telling that kid who's crying, stop crying, but he hurt himself. You know what I mean, you gotta let him cry. Yeah.
• 41:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Reno, what about yourself? How do you practice self compassion?
• 41:46
  Speaker C: I love that Michael being my own soft place to land. That was so yummy. Yeah. Wow. I want to start by saying something that came through when we were talking about compassion and self compassion, which is, I'm trying something new. Can I give myself grace? Can I give myself compassion? I'm learning something new. Can I give myself grace? Can I give myself compassion? I'm experiencing something new. Can I give myself grace? Can I give myself compassion? And, like, these words to me are a reminder of what we're experiencing in every moment. Like, this moment is different than the last, and the next will be different than this moment. And so on and so on. In every. In every moment, something new is arising. And so. And I give myself grace as I continue to grow, as I continue to learn, as I continue to experience, as opposed to, you know, being critical toward myself, being judgmental toward myself, can I recognize that this is a. This spiritual and human experience is one in which in every moment, I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm changing, and that is deserved of grace, of compassion. So I think that's one way that I practice it, is to remind myself of that. You know, and again, you saw it earlier when, you know, I really admire the way the two of you come in with, like, notes and the way you break things down. And I try to adopt some of those qualities because I value them. And there's a way that I do things that is different and kind of off the cuff and by the seat of my pants. And so I'm trying something new. Can I be compassionate toward myself as I'm, you know, as I'm learning, as I'm growing, as I'm trying something new, as I'm experiencing something new. And what that looks like is just slowing down. Slowing down and being with what's coming up, being with, you know, what I'm experiencing and allowing it to be there, not making it wrong or even right, for that matter, but just simply, you know, it is to get more practical. You know, I move. I feel I reveal to right. I move my body, and whatever's there, I allow it to. I allow it to sort of guide me into what movement it needs, what it needs, what it's drawn in the direction of, or what it's drawn away from without judgment. Children are so good at this. I've seen people try to force their kids to give me hugs, and they don't want to. And I'm like, this kid does not have to hug me. It's okay. You know, I respect and honor, like, what this child is experiencing right now, you know? So, yeah, like, a big part of self compassion as a practice for me is, like, honoring what's present and not judging it, letting it be there, feeling it, and then also speaking it into the world, you know? This is what I'm experiencing in this moment. I think that that's huge. Again, some more practical aspects would be things like psychosomatic therapy. I have this guy who shout out to my homie, Logan. He does body work with me from time to time, and it's such a beautiful space because whatever comes up, comes up. I'll just share this real quick. I was on table, a massage table, dry heaving into a pail in front of this person. And in my mind, I'm like, gosh, I am probably so unattractive right now. Like, that was the thought I was having. Like, I probably look so not sexy right now. It's like, who cares, dude? You're processing, you know? And he was such a space for that. I didn't feel an ounce of judgment. It was complete compassion. As my body is doing all of these weird things, and these sounds are coming out of me, and I'm like, what is this? You know, I felt no judgment, no shame in his face, you know? So trauma therapy, meditation. Beautiful practice of being with. What is yoga? Spending time in nature and taking social and digital breaks. That's a big one. You know? That's a big one. I feel like taking social and digital breaks is like. Is. Is a compassion practice, in my opinion, because, my gosh, there's just so much sometimes. And I'm like, okay, give me a minute. Give me a minute. So, yeah, that's. I'd say that's. That's my answer to that question. And then lastly, just, like, safe space, you know? Safe space. What is that? Where is that for you? And can you cultivate that externally and also internally, you know, what does that look like? What does that feel like?
• 47:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks, Reno. I related to what you shared about your experience with Logan. It's like you don't want to be seen at your worst. I have, like, and that's part of one of. Maybe one of my beliefs. Maybe it comes from the core wound of I am defective or something is wrong with me. If somebody sees me at my worst, they're not going to love me anymore. They're going to abandon me. And I think that love and compassion are the embodiment of. I see you at your worst. And I just. I still love you and accept you. And in some cases, I love you and accept you even more than I did the previous moment. You know, I think that's. That's what I'm striving for in this life, is to. To see someone in their complete messiness and be able just to say, you know what? It's okay. I love you still. You know what I mean? Especially romantically. It's easy to do that with clients or even some family members, but when it comes to romantic relationships, that's a tough one. So. Which is actually a good segue into my share. The two areas I've been having to practice a lot of self compassion in my life in the last few years. Is that so? Struggling in relationships. And I carry some shame around that because I teach people how to have healthy relationships and I'm really fucking good at it. But I still struggle in my own relationships. I have a lot. I carry a lot of fear and bring a lot of fear into my relationships. As people know. If they've listened to my shares in previous episodes, I have more of a fearful avoidant or a disorganized attachment style. So it's very much about fear. There's a lot of fear that I bring into my relationships. So I'm learning how to move towards love and feel safer in my nervous system doing so. And I'm negotiating constantly between feeling anxious and feeling avoidant. And I'm dancing and I'm always confused and it's exhausting. So I'm finding that I have to really meet myself with a lot of compassion right now because it's through the co regulation and through the relationships that I'm actually healing, but I'm terrified to go into them. So it's like, can I have compassion while I'm over here? And can I have compassion while I'm in the container that I'm. Of the people that I'm relating with? And it's been. It's been big, you know? And then in the last few years, I've been struggling with. With depression. And it's been very heavy. Just everything in life has felt very heavy for the last few years, and I haven't been able to do. And for those of you that know, me doing is my medicine. It's. I love being productive. I love achieving these sorts of things, but it's a, you know, in some cases, it's egoic, it's perfectionistic. So I've been learning how to find worth and compassion for myself in being right. And being has been a big thing. So I've been napping. And previously in my life, napping was laziness, so I would never do it right. So there's a lot of these things that I'm learning how to just let myself be. And it's helping. It really is. It's helping heal me, really, at the end of the day. I love what you said. Reno, too, about beginners mindset. That's what I call it, but just letting yourself be a beginner. So I'm learning guitar right now. I'm fairly new to singing more so publicly, and I'm just really putting myself out there because I have more capacity for compassion for myself. I never put those things out there before, because when I would fail, I would literally feel like death, right? Because I didn't have any. So the greater my capacity for compassion for myself grows, the more I can put myself in situations where I might fail. Because I know, like you said, michael, I will have a safe place to land, which, in my opinion, is self worth. Like, everything we're talking about is that that safe place to land for me is self worth. Like, I'm. I can come back on it because I know if I fail, I'm still worthy, right? Um, having or talking to myself more kindly has been really important, too. And I. I follow. I can't remember what it is. I think it's called I am is the app. Yeah, the app I am. So it's these things that pop up on your phone, and they're little affirmations, and they'll just pop up if I'm in the middle of texting, and I'll just pause and I'll just repeat it. And I'm, like, learning how to reprogram some of my thoughts and just to being more gentle and kind with myself, and then allowing my feelings and giving myself permission to feel like shit. And for me, that looks like I give myself permission to feel like shit. Okay? And then I give myself permission for not wanting to feel like giving myself permission for feeling like shit, you know? Because I'm like, I don't want to. I just don't want to feel like shit. I don't want to have to give myself permission for feeling like shit. I just want to be feeling better. And all that does is perpetuates my pain, makes it worse. So I'm really, truly using this as a secret weapon, this whole notion of radical permission for all my experiences. And it's been really helpful allowing others to help me. This has been huge. Really huge. In the last few years, even almost opening myself up more to having mentor, mentorship and these sorts of things. I think I was too proud to have mentorship prior and all stemming from ego. And it's really nice now. My best friend is just a godsend. She's helped me through this depression tremendously, and that's been a gift. My sister's been such a gift to me. You know, my therapists, all the things, all the people that I've worked with, I've really allowed people in. And again, that's part of my attachment style, is like, don't let people in. I'll be betrayed. I don't trust people, so I'm very guarded. So letting people in has been a big part of learning compassion for myself, because when I see someone giving me compassion, it makes it easier to give myself compassion. I'm finding it's really, really interesting. The next one I have here is self care. Yeah, that's been a big part of having self compassion, is just really treating myself well, eating well, going for massages, doing things to tend to my mental health. That's been a big part of it. And then the last one, I wrote down, inner child projection. And one of the ways that I have compassion for other people when I'm finding it hard is I picture their inner child as well. I'll picture the guy that's suffering or struggling. And especially if they're suffering and struggling is leading to them treating me poorly. I will try to look at them as a young five year old boy or girl, and that helps me have compassion for them. So I've been learning to do that same thing for me when I'm scared or I'm angry or I'm these things. How can I envision my inner child? Because that's the part of me that's probably feeling scared or angry or these sorts of things. I turn that on me, and I try and connect with my. With my inner little boy. So that was a beautiful episode, guys. Yeah. Thank you for sharing so vulnerably and open. Is there anything you want to add before we wrap up here?
• 54:47
  Speaker B: I'm all good. Go back to the inner child episode. I'll put it in the show notes because that one actually is a really good. Goes with this one really well.
• 54:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I had to practice a lot of compassion for myself after that episode because I got really emotional in that episode. And then I was like, oh, my God, I overshared or I shared too much, and I felt like a vulnerability hangover. But then you guys also practiced really beautiful compassion with me in that episode. And even when we got off the episode, you guys were really there for me and supportive of that. So thank you.
• 55:15
  Speaker C: That's one thing I love about this, like, triad right here is I feel like there's so much love here. Like, there's so much love and so much support here, and it's really, really special. So, yeah, thank you. And I think the last thing I want to say that I didn't say at the top of the conversation is that, like. Yeah, for me, like, compassion. Self compassion is loving. What is. Like, that's what I think I'm landing on at the end of this conversation is it's loving. What is.
• 55:48
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, come and share your thoughts. Self compassion. Last Thursday of every month, Zoom hangout. It's free to come join. You can either join on our website and we will send you the link in email, or you can join through the Facebook group gay mensbrotherhood.com or gay men's brotherhood on Facebook is where you'll find that. We'd love for you to come and share your experiences on self compassion. This is a really important conversation for gay men because we struggle a lot of shame and self compassion tends to be lacking for, in our community, I find. Um, yeah. And for those of you that are watching on YouTube, drop some comments. Let us know how you practice self compassion. We'd love to know that. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, drop us a rating, five stars, preferably if you enjoyed what you heard. And also, please give us a review on Apple. This really helps us climb in the rankings so more people can see us. So if you have not yet, please give us a star rating, the actual podcast itself, and then a review, if you wouldn't mind, because it brings people to the podcast and joins in on the conversation and brings more consciousness to our community, which is what we're here for. So thanks for tuning in. Until next time. Much love, everybody. Bye.