Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 37 - The Parallels of My Dating Life and Ali Hazelwood's The Deep End: A Dating Update and a Book Review From the Lens of The Kink Consultant

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Ep 37 - The Parallels of My Dating Life and Ali Hazelwood's The Deep End: A Dating Update and a Book Review From the Lens of The Kink Consultant · The Kink Consultant

• 0:08
  It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
• 0:11
  on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
• 0:14
  So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
• 0:17
  to it. We're.
• 0:23
  Bullying Amanda first thing in the morning.
• 0:25
  Hello. Good morning.
• 0:26
  Hello and welcome to my show, the King Consultant Podcast,
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  where this week I have on my biz Dom, Brenda and my amazing
• 0:39
  podcast editor Tish. This is Tish's first time on the
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  podcast. I want to make her feel welcome,
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  especially since she's the one who makes me sound good week to
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  week. The way this came about is I
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  realized, Tish, I don't know what your experience is with
• 0:54
  kink, right? And I text you and I said, like,
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  do you have any questions about kink?
• 0:59
  This is episode maybe 30 something, right?
• 1:02
  Yeah. I finally think, like, I bet
• 1:04
  some of this is strange to Tish, but you kind of came back.
• 1:08
  You were like, actually, some of your stuff has been answered,
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  but you came back with your own idea of what we should talk
• 1:13
  about on this podcast. Can you tell me, like, how did
• 1:16
  you even come up with this idea? Had you read the book?
• 1:19
  Take it away, Tish. So hello everybody, My name is
• 1:21
  Tish. OK, so it was so funny because
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  Amanda was asking me like, am I dating?
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  And I'm like, I'm married. Did you know Tish was married?
• 1:31
  I did, yeah. Not.
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  Yeah, so like I have 0 experience in King and very,
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  very vanilla. And my experience with King is
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  pretty much same as Brenda. We read all these books and I'm
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  a romance novel girly. I love ROM coms, I love romantic
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  dramas. I eat that shit up like every
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  single week. I just need like 1 ROM com.
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  It could be like from the 90s like the new ones.
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  It's like my guilty pleasure. Like sometimes it's so sappy but
• 1:59
  I love it. Wait do you have a favorite like
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  90s ROM com movie or? So I think like a classic would
• 2:05
  be, I forget the title, but the one with Julia Robert, Pretty
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  Woman. Pretty Woman is one of my
• 2:12
  favorite movies. Yeah, like.
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  I'm always wishing that my husband were that rich so I
• 2:17
  could like go in a store and like go shopping.
• 2:21
  Hold on, I'm dying. I mean, yeah, the money aspect
• 2:23
  is always nice. Like yeah, that's my favorite
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  part, so I'm assuming. That your book style is you love
• 2:30
  to read books about being taken care of, right?
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  I like those sappy novels. Like sometimes it's borderline
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  cringe or maybe they're even cringe.
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  It's so satisfying, you know, like the so satisfying.
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  I think it was high school. Do you remember Meg Cabot, like
• 2:45
  the author of Princess Diaries? OK, yeah.
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  I would read her young adult romance novels, Right?
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  And then eventually it evolved into something more spicy.
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  And until like I came across these books with kinks in them.
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  And then that's pretty much my knowledge or experience.
• 3:03
  Quote UN quote with King. And I was telling you about this
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  book that I just read because it was marketed as like a kink
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  romance novel. And it was so funny because when
• 3:14
  I read it, for me, it was already kinky.
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  But like, if you go to TikTok and like, you listen to all
• 3:19
  these reviews, all these people are saying that it's very
• 3:22
  vanilla. So I'm like, I'm working with a
• 3:25
  kink consultant. Why don't I just consult like,
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  is this kinky for you or something?
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  And then you have that episode where you were talking about
• 3:33
  your dating life and all that, and you talked about having this
• 3:36
  contract with your Yeah, with friends with Ben.
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  And I'm like, oh, I read this in a book.
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  So. And that was that one because
• 3:43
  like, they had a negotiation or something.
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  So I'm like, huh, I should ask Amanda about this.
• 3:50
  Yeah. That is so interesting.
• 3:52
  Check. Yeah.
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  Negotiation checklist with all of the things that you're OK
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  with versus not OK with. And yes, sometimes there's a
• 3:58
  contract that goes on top of that that's sort of like these
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  are the rules that we're agreeing to and these are the
• 4:02
  boundaries. Yeah.
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  I guess like for a vanilla relationship, of course you also
• 4:07
  have that conversation with your partner, like which ones you
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  like, which ones you don't like. But then I believe it's much
• 4:13
  more different because there are very different consent layers or
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  aspects and do something that's I would say like not normal the.
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  Book you asked us to read. You hadn't read it either,
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  Brenda. Right, no I hadn't read it
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  either so the second she mentioned it I literally rant.
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  Audible and the book is The Deep End by Ali Hazelwood.
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  OK, thumbs up or thumbs down on the book.
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  I'm in the. Middle, I'm in the middle as
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  well cuz like I've read her other books and I have something
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  to compare that to. My rating is the book overall,
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  not just like the kink aspect of it.
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  Yeah. The book itself was great.
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  I think what was going on in my personal life at the same time
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  as this actually tilted me towards a thumbs down because I
• 4:54
  was like the main female character.
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  Vandy asks for nothing. Do you know what I mean?
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  I'm a thumbs down on the book and it has actually very little
• 5:02
  to do with the book itself. I'll admit that because in a
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  different mindset I think I would have enjoyed it.
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  I disagree because I am on that same path as you and I.
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  That's why I'm like like I'm kind of that halfway between not
• 5:16
  liking it and like the storyline was cute.
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  Don't get me wrong it had ROM com feels, not kink feels in my
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  opinion. I actually wanted to ask this
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  though because I didn't have a problem with the kink.
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  I think oh really? True representation of what 95,
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  maybe more percent of kinky couples are actually doing.
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  Like if that was the level of kink I had in my life, I would
• 5:41
  be happy. OK, wait time out because I
• 5:43
  thought that this book had zero cake in it.
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  So they actually didn't explore it but it's more like implying
• 5:48
  sex. But the things they talked about
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  and the way he spoke to her and the dominant presence he had,
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  all super sexy and kinky. Absolutely they.
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  Didn't explore it as deeply, but I'm like as a concept, yeah,
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  that's all I'm looking for. OK, so I would have rather they
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  have actually explored the kinky stuff that they were talking
• 6:09
  about because that's a huge part of maybe what you do.
• 6:13
  We're trying to promote a lot of the safe kink and all that kind
• 6:17
  of stuff. So it's one thing to say that I
• 6:19
  love being spanked, but when you're having this and you're
• 6:22
  going through it, like actually talk about it, actually do the
• 6:25
  spanking in the way that you want.
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  You know what I mean? Show the scene.
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  True, because when I think about it now, upon reflection, it's
• 6:32
  about like an Olympic swimmer and a diver.
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  So these are like really type A people to begin with.
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  The amount I learned about diving and swimming.
• 6:40
  From the yes. Compared to the amount I learned
• 6:43
  about kink, you're right. It didn't give me the same
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  insight into kink at all. It's spoilers I guess.
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  Hannon Lucas dated for seven years and it just didn't workout
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  and like, because the kink wasn't there.
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  And I'm like, that's realistic to me.
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  So I liked that aspect of it. He meets someone kinky, they
• 6:59
  create lists of what they're into or not.
• 7:01
  So that checklist exists. And I love that that happened.
• 7:04
  You're right. They didn't go through the list
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  50 Shades of Grey style, where they go through everything
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  extreme and that creates a buzz. But I think they went through it
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  enough that I was like, OK, I understand what both of these
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  people are about. The one thing they didn't talk
• 7:17
  about is the dynamic they wanted.
• 7:19
  It was what they were into, not into, but zero about the
• 7:22
  dynamic. Can you talk more about that?
• 7:24
  So like what kind of dynamic were you looking for honestly as
• 7:27
  a non king person? Like what does that even mean?
• 7:30
  Oh, great question. Thank you.
• 7:32
  OK, There's a list of things you're into or not into, right?
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  But how do you put it together and how does it get enforced?
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  And at what frequency? Is it just in the bedroom?
• 7:40
  Is it something that follows them through life?
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  Because he was quite dominant in all areas of their life together
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  and he looked out for her, but he also had such a presence.
• 7:48
  But it did sound like the kink was really only in the bedroom.
• 7:51
  But they never actually talked about whether or not this made
• 7:53
  it outside of the bedroom, which is like the most basic level of
• 7:57
  creating a dynamic. It's like, what are the
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  boundaries? How are we containing this?
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  Are we containing it at all? Or does it leak into every part
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  of life? Or is it contained in the
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  bedroom, contained in the home? How much autonomy does she have?
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  Does she choose the clothes she wears in the morning?
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  Is she making decisions about her own health?
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  There are extremes in there. So I'm just saying, I'm giving
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  you all of the examples, Tish to say these are the different
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  types of conversations. You have to decide on the
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  dynamic. But they didn't have any
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  discussion like that. And also he would just go off
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  and travel and not tell her he was going places, you know, and
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  when he'd be back or things like that.
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  And she was just sort of like, OK, so I'm like, that's not a
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  relationship, That's not a dynamic, That's a booty call.
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  How does a 24/7 dynamic? Look like a 24/7 dynamic could
• 8:42
  be master slave where it's very intense and it's a 24/7 power
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  exchange where the submissive, the relationship is making very
• 8:52
  few decisions or it's very defined.
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  It's like here's what you have control over, here's what you
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  don't. I've heard of relationships
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  where the Dom picks out the person's clothes in the morning,
• 9:02
  tells them what they're going to eat for the day, how often
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  they're going to eat, keeps a really close eye and makes a lot
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  of decisions for the sub. That's an example of 24/7.
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  In these dynamics, there could be any level of consequence for
• 9:14
  not doing what the Dom said. There could be actual physical
• 9:16
  punishment or impacts like we've discussed like spanking or
• 9:20
  blogging, or there could just be sort of like a soft Dom type.
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  It takes on a caretaker role for the sub and it's sort of, it
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  makes these rules out of encouragement.
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  The point is the power exchange exists throughout the day and
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  it's a constant where the Dom has the power or isn't that
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  leadership role and the sub is following and being LED.
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  Then there's just a bedroom dynamic where at night during
• 9:43
  sex or during a seed, which is a contained amount of time where
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  you both decide, OK, we're going to engage in this type of play
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  for X amount of time. And these are the things we're
• 9:52
  going to explore in that time. That could just be in the
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  bedroom dynamic. And then sometimes there's sort
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  of like a, it doesn't always need to be perfectly defined for
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  those like in the bedroom types. For some people, it can come out
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  at the kitchen table or like out in public, they dip in and out
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  of it. But that comes with an
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  understanding of boundaries, like a discussion about
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  boundaries and for, to find your way organically with that one.
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  And no matter which one of these we're talking about, you still
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  have to find your way organically because you can't
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  just jump into 24/7. Things need to develop first as
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  a relationship and then into these.
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  Like it's almost like the vanilla part of the
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  relationship, unless you're just looking for a dynamic, is the
• 10:30
  foundation, which I think also was a little lacking in the
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  book. Hey, if you're loving this
• 10:37
  episode or honestly even just vibing with the podcast overall,
• 10:40
  go ahead and tap that five star rating.
• 10:42
  It takes 2 seconds and it really helps us grow this kinky little
• 10:45
  corner of the world. Because that's what we're
• 10:47
  building here, right? A space to feel seen, get
• 10:50
  curious, and explore, all from the privacy of our own
• 10:53
  headphones. And if something made you laugh,
• 10:55
  cringe, gasp, or pause to reflect, drop a comment.
• 10:59
  I want to know what stuck with you or shocked you.
• 11:02
  You specifically commented on this person not communicating
• 11:06
  that he's leaving or like he's having to travel.
• 11:09
  And like, I was wondering, since that was also like something
• 11:13
  that you're big on communication in general, maybe you could give
• 11:16
  us an update on how things are with the German?
• 11:19
  It is done. The writing was on the wall in
• 11:21
  the last episode and it is done. Side note to all of my clients,
• 11:26
  friends, listeners who I have never heard from, who reached
• 11:30
  out to me about the German. I appreciate appreciate the well
• 11:32
  wishes and the confidence in my ability to find somebody more
• 11:36
  suited to me. That isn't what actually
• 11:38
  impacted my decision, but it was really good to hear from people.
• 11:40
  It was also a little jarring to go into a client session, by the
• 11:43
  way, and have clients say, so what's happening with the
• 11:45
  German? And I'm like, and when I talk to
• 11:48
  clients, I give them real updates on my life.
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  It's coaching and I want to be real with them.
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  So they're real with me because I feel we owe each other the
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  vulnerability. But like to start on the back
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  foot of like explaining your own relationship is woof.
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  So ended it. And here was the final nail in
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  the coffin. He was trying better to
• 12:05
  communicate. But like he'd also acknowledged
• 12:07
  that I'd said them before. And that was frustrating because
• 12:09
  it was like there was number plan of how communication would
• 12:12
  improve. He said he'd try and he was
• 12:13
  trying the nail in the coffin. He had to go on an impromptu
• 12:17
  work trip proactively. I said, when will you be back?
• 12:20
  And he didn't answer for five hours.
• 12:22
  He's like, I'll be back in 2 days.
• 12:23
  This is my travel plans. And then I said I shouldn't have
• 12:26
  had to proactively ask this question of like when you'll be
• 12:28
  back. And it's like, well, I was
• 12:29
  traveling with a colleague and I'm like, are you fucking
• 12:33
  kidding me right now? Like.
• 12:34
  Is your colleague sending me the text messages?
• 12:37
  He was like, I'm, I'm just like, I'm sorry.
• 12:40
  Are you sure you weren't travelling with your wife?
• 12:42
  Like what do you mean you couldn't text me at any point
• 12:45
  because you were travelling with your colleague, you know, hotels
• 12:47
  of where he was going? I am so married that I tell my
• 12:52
  husband the route that I'm taking to take my kids to
• 12:55
  soccer. Like, honey, I'm on the road.
• 12:58
  I'm taking this road and this road love you, see you in a bit
• 13:01
  like. OK, I want that level of that's.
• 13:04
  Extreme. Yeah, In hindsight, thinking
• 13:06
  through all of this, there are a couple of things.
• 13:08
  Number one, I'm like, OK, we were still early on in our
• 13:11
  relationship, but I know the writing was on the wall that
• 13:14
  like communication is so important.
• 13:15
  And he admitted that he was not a great text communicator.
• 13:18
  The aftercare I say I need. Like one of the aftercare things
• 13:21
  that I tell people is I need you to text me the day after.
• 13:24
  Like you being available to text is important to me.
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  Couldn't be in a relationship with someone who couldn't text.
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  Just the lack of communication. And even though he was trying
• 13:32
  and I could tell he was, it just wasn't enough.
• 13:34
  I'm going into the weekend now and like we had plans for this
• 13:38
  weekend and I'm like, oh, how am I feeling my weekend up?
• 13:40
  So there's like a little bit of just being lonely.
• 13:43
  I've said this before, you love hard and you love very fast, and
• 13:47
  that's OK. I fall hard and fast, that is
• 13:49
  true. I think this is one of the
• 13:51
  things that connects us together is that we romanticize our
• 13:53
  little things. You know what I mean?
• 13:55
  We put all of our energy into these little bubbles and so when
• 14:00
  one little thing happens, it crushes our soul because we give
• 14:04
  absolutely everything to something.
• 14:07
  We are so loyal in the moment. We do all of these things
• 14:11
  because we just love it. That's just the way we are.
• 14:14
  That one little thing can throw us off hugely.
• 14:17
  It's. Kind of also just I allow
• 14:19
  everything to fall into this upset of like OK, I moved from
• 14:23
  New York City, a city I loved for an ex.
• 14:26
  We bought and sold a house because we broke up and then my
• 14:29
  dog passed away and I'm just like, can I just have one
• 14:32
  fucking win? Like, that's so unfair.
• 14:34
  I have an amazing social if you have an amazing group of people
• 14:37
  around me. But it's tough.
• 14:38
  Yeah, dating is tough. Also in four hours I have a
• 14:42
  coffee date and tomorrow I have a sushi date with other people.
• 14:46
  So I'm like, I'm not even back on the apps.
• 14:48
  It's just organically happened of like people heard I was
• 14:51
  single, I was asked out. It's fun.
• 14:53
  So it's not all oh whoa, is me. It's just sometimes when you put
• 14:57
  it all together, it's tough. Absolutely.
• 14:59
  And your feelings are 100% followed.
• 15:01
  It is OK to sit here and have these types of fuck me.
• 15:05
  But you know what? You get 4 hours to feel fuck me,
• 15:08
  yeah. No, as person is like that, I'm
• 15:11
  going on the coffee date with He's super nice.
• 15:13
  We're both really into king. In fact, I hired this guy to
• 15:18
  build me dungeon furniture. I think other people in your
• 15:21
  life will agree with me when I say this is what you need is you
• 15:25
  need people in your space. Oh my God, need to be your kink
• 15:29
  space. But a kink space?
• 15:31
  Yes, Brenda, you sound like my mother right now.
• 15:33
  I got a phone call from my father after the sex party
• 15:37
  episode dropped. She didn't listen to it, but her
• 15:40
  friends listened to it. But there was just something
• 15:42
  about that episode. We recorded it and then we
• 15:45
  released some other episodes first.
• 15:46
  So I sort of wasn't thinking anymore about what was in that
• 15:49
  episode. I called her and she's like, oh,
• 15:51
  I'm here with my friends and we're talking about the Smex
• 15:55
  party. So then she's like, I'm gonna
• 15:57
  call you back. Evidently, her friends leave and
• 15:59
  she does call me back. She's very caring.
• 16:01
  But I do feel like I'm getting lectured by my mother and she's
• 16:04
  telling me, Mandy, you need to date in your world.
• 16:08
  It's almost like a scarcity mindset.
• 16:10
  Like she's so worried for me that I'm not gonna meet someone.
• 16:12
  And she's like, it needs to be in your world.
• 16:14
  Someone who understands this. I'm like, Mom, I'm not going to
• 16:17
  sex parties all the time. It's like part of my job that I
• 16:20
  went like, and I don't want her listening to the episode for
• 16:23
  sure. Because like, I mean, in there,
• 16:25
  I'm talking about family. Turn this off now if you're
• 16:28
  right here. In there, there was a part when
• 16:30
  you whipped out. Yeah, my youth are out.
• 16:33
  I'm masturbating. There's a bunch of people
• 16:35
  watching me like the. Glory hole.
• 16:39
  You the glory hole, like I wasn't taking part in it, but
• 16:42
  yeah, I wanted to see the glory hole.
• 16:44
  And nobody listening here can't tell me that they wouldn't be a
• 16:47
  little bit curious to Brendan. Message received loud and clear
• 16:51
  from multiple caring people. But like, it goes against my
• 16:55
  ethos and I need to figure this out.
• 16:56
  If you can teach people to Dom you, because I do believe you
• 16:59
  can. I think you did a great job of
• 17:01
  teaching him or guiding him well.
• 17:03
  I didn't see the entire thing but like based on your story it
• 17:07
  seems like you were very active and like helping him what he
• 17:10
  needs to learn to be able to Dom you.
• 17:12
  But it's just like there is no follow through on his end, like
• 17:15
  he's not being a good, you know what I'm saying?
• 17:18
  Yes. Right.
• 17:19
  That's the other thing. So I had to work this hard to
• 17:21
  get someone to text me. I mean, getting someone to Dom
• 17:24
  me, I wasn't capable. And that was part of my decision
• 17:27
  too, because it's like, OK, I could probably work through
• 17:30
  this. Like we could meet in the middle
• 17:31
  about the texting, but then what kind of Dom would that person be
• 17:34
  for me? Yeah, there's a difference
• 17:36
  between you knowing that you can teach people because we know
• 17:39
  it's possible, and you physically needing someone more
• 17:43
  experienced for yourself. Just because you teach this
• 17:47
  doesn't mean you need it to be your life.
• 17:50
  Bernie Yeah. And I don't want it to be my
• 17:53
  journey because just for everyone listening, even if you
• 17:55
  meet the kinkiest person out there, you are still going to
• 17:57
  have to teach them how to Dom you.
• 17:59
  Your way. Yeah, exactly.
• 18:01
  Find the relationship together just like, and I stick to this.
• 18:04
  You teach people to love you too.
• 18:07
  You teach people what your love languages are, and you work
• 18:09
  together to make sure you're making your partner feel seen.
• 18:12
  I wasn't feeling seen in whatever I was just in and I
• 18:15
  actually think that's like harder on me.
• 18:16
  Exactly. So like we knew this from the
• 18:19
  beginning. You need someone who's not going
• 18:20
  to be traveling 24/7 because if they're doing any of that kind
• 18:24
  of stuff, they don't have time for you.
• 18:26
  Like we've just experienced this in two different spaces.
• 18:29
  Friends and Benefits wasn't there for you all of the time
• 18:31
  because there were outside sources that needed his time.
• 18:35
  That's the thing, Brenda. I didn't mind the traveling
• 18:37
  because I liked having time to work and then time to be with
• 18:40
  someone. It was the lack of communication
• 18:42
  in between that made me feel I needed to feel included.
• 18:45
  I wanted to feel included and I felt excluded in his life and
• 18:49
  that's what really hurt. Honestly, if I were to sum it
• 18:52
  up, that would be it. I didn't feel included in his
• 18:54
  life and that's what hurt. OK, so traveling is fine, but
• 18:58
  maybe not to that extent because how else are you going to
• 19:01
  actually get to know each other? Let's face it, if you guys are
• 19:04
  both consistently off the planet somewhere else To loop it back
• 19:08
  to the book too, though. So he, I mean, it's the German,
• 19:11
  right? So I think that there is a lot
• 19:14
  to be said about the culture around a lot of it too.
• 19:16
  So like in the book, he had these same types of issues of
• 19:20
  communication, right? He would pop in and out.
• 19:23
  But yeah, same type of thing, like actually the.
• 19:26
  Doming itself in the book too, like he was a very natural and I
• 19:30
  think a lot of that has to do with like the way that they are.
• 19:34
  They're very direct. There is no walking on egg
• 19:37
  shells with a lot of these cultures because they just why
• 19:40
  don't understand. Why do we have to say all of the
• 19:43
  things when this is all I need? To say, yeah, a good point too,
• 19:47
  there's like cultural differences in dating.
• 19:49
  Growing up in Ireland, I knew a lot of different Europeans and
• 19:53
  kind of understood that, but I didn't realize, I think another
• 19:56
  11 years back in the States has made me be a little bit more
• 20:00
  into the niceties and the flowery stuff as opposed to
• 20:03
  that. Because I'm going to tell you,
• 20:04
  Irish men are not romantic either.
• 20:06
  I did post about the episode, the dating episode.
• 20:09
  I put a poll in of like, where are you?
• 20:12
  Like, have you had this happen? And so many people said yes and
• 20:14
  I had to move on or yes, I'm in it right now.
• 20:17
  And then I got so many DMS and that was, I don't know, it's
• 20:20
  nice part. It was really nice.
• 20:22
  It was nice to hear other people's stories, their
• 20:24
  feelings, their hurt. It was bonding.
• 20:26
  Good. Yeah, there were comments on
• 20:28
  your Spotify who are like, oh, I'm going through the same
• 20:31
  thing. Thank you for this episode.
• 20:33
  It made it so worth it because, you know, I do get, like, an
• 20:35
  emotional overshare hangover, Like, I spared so much of
• 20:39
  myself. And I would like doing that.
• 20:41
  But it feels messy at times. It's tough to be so out there,
• 20:44
  OK. Can we live it back to the book
• 20:45
  a little bit? I want to know about the
• 20:47
  communication back and forth and how they kind of did that
• 20:49
  contract piece. OK.
• 20:51
  Is this actually happening in real life?
• 20:54
  Do you have an actual list? Like when you're meeting people
• 20:57
  and you're saying, here's my list?
• 20:59
  Like I know we talked a little bit about it earlier, but like,
• 21:01
  I guess you'd watch movies and you do all of these things.
• 21:04
  You have this Hollywood picture of things and you know, they
• 21:07
  don't wear condoms. They don't do any of these types
• 21:10
  of things that should be happening in real life, but they
• 21:13
  don't. Is this actually happening?
• 21:16
  Are we pausing on a one night stand and going just or is that
• 21:20
  not even happening on a one night?
• 21:22
  If you're having a one night stand, the cut and dry method is
• 21:25
  just. These are the things I want you
• 21:26
  to do to me. These are the things you can do.
• 21:28
  Do not go outside of these right My boundaries is everything you.
• 21:32
  Are having a conversation. I wouldn't recommend doing this
• 21:35
  on a one night stand. Personally I don't do it on a
• 21:38
  one night stand because it's too intimate and intense.
• 21:41
  Like sex is sex but kink is intricate.
• 21:43
  You need to be able to trust the person.
• 21:45
  If you want to do impact play with someone, how do you know
• 21:47
  they can aim? If you want them to choke you,
• 21:48
  how do you know they're not going to like collapse your
• 21:50
  trachea because they're so tight?
• 21:53
  There are too many elements for you to safely do this on a one
• 21:57
  night. So yeah, all of the
• 21:59
  conversations, the contracts are extreme, but the list of things
• 22:03
  that you're into super important.
• 22:04
  You should be negotiating like I do pick up play and pick up
• 22:07
  plays. When you go to a party, there's
• 22:09
  no sex for the party. I'm the type of party I'm
• 22:11
  talking about. I go to a kink party.
• 22:13
  Pick up play is where you meet someone there and then you play
• 22:16
  together, right? I have set questions about their
• 22:19
  experience level. I tell them how I want to feel
• 22:22
  at the end of the singing so they understand what emotions
• 22:25
  I'm looking for, so they know that I'm not to feel totally
• 22:28
  spent and beaten up. I'm looking to feel like
• 22:30
  cathartic remorse for something that I tell them I need to be
• 22:33
  punished for. And these are specific parties
• 22:36
  that you're going there with these types of intentions
• 22:38
  already? I'm not doing.
• 22:40
  That's the difference. I don't have one night stands.
• 22:42
  I maybe not one night stands is the conversation.
• 22:45
  I just mean like you're dating, you're doing all of these things
• 22:48
  and like, let's say you're on your third date and the people
• 22:51
  are like Yep, you know, you're the type of person or on the
• 22:53
  third date, the green light for sexes yeah.
• 22:56
  Are you pausing? Because I know you enough to
• 22:59
  know that you need a little bit of that kind of pain, right?
• 23:01
  You need that. Are you going into that third
• 23:03
  date going? FYI, I need to do this before I
• 23:07
  can actually come for you today. Because it's me, it's been a
• 23:10
  constant conversation throughout, so I've been talking
• 23:13
  about it a lot. What actually happens on the
• 23:15
  night is a like a quick conversation beforehand.
• 23:18
  Yes, you're right, it does happen, but like that's not
• 23:21
  everyone's experience. However, the checklist that
• 23:24
  we're talking about for people who enter into a dynamic, there
• 23:27
  are a lot of kingsters who have their checklist that is
• 23:30
  available to share. In fact, I have a ton of
• 23:32
  people's checklist that they have sent to me, like my clients
• 23:34
  who have done it in advance. And like here, I want to show
• 23:37
  you the things I'm into and I'm really happy to look at it.
• 23:39
  And I'm always interested because I have so many newbies
• 23:42
  to kink who might not know that exists.
• 23:43
  Like I know I keep saying this, I need to create my own list to
• 23:47
  get out to people so maybe I can get it together so that I can
• 23:51
  just like share with people. Here's the check.
• 23:53
  Here's how you fill it out. This is a good thing to go
• 23:55
  through with your partner if they decide to go in that deep,
• 23:58
  right? Because those lists are like
• 24:00
  hundreds of lines long of different type of play that can
• 24:03
  happen. And that can be really intense
• 24:05
  for newbies. OK, I have a question.
• 24:07
  So you said that you go to these parties and then you play
• 24:10
  together and then in your other episodes you also mentioned a
• 24:13
  thing called a play partner. So what happens in these plays?
• 24:18
  And what is a play partner? It does the play partner become
• 24:21
  a boyfriend, girlfriend, like significant other or like what
• 24:24
  do you guys? Do that's a really great
• 24:26
  question. When I say play partner I mean
• 24:28
  someone who you are just exploring kink with and they
• 24:30
  might even still be your Dom. It's nuanced.
• 24:34
  They might still be your Dom and you're their sub.
• 24:36
  There might still be sex and kink right?
• 24:40
  But there's no romantic involvement beyond the scenes
• 24:44
  and this dynamic. OK, when I do say play partner I
• 24:48
  think I mean less Dom sub, but I don't want to diminish people
• 24:51
  who are ex practicing as play partners in this way.
• 24:54
  It's really more of a top and bottom situation where the top
• 24:58
  is the one doing the action, the bottom is the one receiving the
• 25:01
  action, whether that's impact play or rope and bondage,
• 25:05
  whatever it is, play partners are not romantically involved
• 25:09
  and they are just doing scenes together.
• 25:11
  And maybe there is a little bit of a dynamic, but when I say
• 25:15
  play partner, I'm not imagining a dynamic.
• 25:17
  I'm learning a lot of new things from your episodes.
• 25:19
  So like there are a lot of kinks that it's like my first time to
• 25:23
  hear them. And then while I was preparing
• 25:25
  your episodes, it was when I was doing these research.
• 25:27
  So some of the kinks are not all sexual, is that correct?
• 25:31
  Great question. For some people kink is sexual
• 25:34
  and then for others it's not and then for others it's a mix.
• 25:37
  For me, although I have this punishment and discipline fetish
• 25:41
  and I needed to be able to come, I can also feel fulfilled just
• 25:45
  having that need met. I like sex separate to my need
• 25:49
  for this. However it is so enjoyable that
• 25:52
  I'm often turned off and want sex afterwards.
• 25:55
  I noticed with a lot of men and maybe they're interested in
• 25:58
  dominance and control and they want to try it, but for a lot of
• 26:03
  men it's completely sexual and they want to be sexually
• 26:06
  dominant. And that is something that
• 26:08
  causes a rift between a lot of people who say they're looking
• 26:11
  for a Dom and the sub. So like I know a lot of women
• 26:14
  are looking for a Dom, but they don't mean that sexual Dom, they
• 26:17
  mean that caretaker Dom. And while sex might be part of
• 26:20
  it, it is not the focus. And then men are like I'm a Dom
• 26:24
  and what they really mean is I'm a sexual Dom and I want to take
• 26:27
  control in the bedroom. And I'm not saying either 1 is
• 26:29
  more valid than the other, but this is the communication gap
• 26:33
  that is happening. My other question is for the non
• 26:35
  sexual king, what is the goal? So like the sexual kinks right?
• 26:39
  You do that so that you get satisfied and you orgasm
• 26:43
  basically. But how about for like the non
• 26:45
  sexual kinks? You know how sometimes you're
• 26:49
  feeling energetically drained or something and then there's
• 26:51
  something that fills your cup up?
• 26:53
  Maybe it's hanging out with friends, maybe it's hiding away
• 26:56
  and reading a book. And after you do it for an hour,
• 26:58
  you're like, I feel much better. It's almost like when you have a
• 27:01
  kink, you're not experiencing it.
• 27:03
  Your battery level goes down South, then you need it
• 27:06
  recharged by having this experience.
• 27:08
  That's how I describe it. That's how I feel it in the
• 27:11
  world. It's like I really need some
• 27:14
  structure. I need a dominant presence if my
• 27:17
  life for punishment or something.
• 27:19
  Like when I don't have it, my battery starts to drain a little
• 27:22
  bit, but when my need is met, it's refilled.
• 27:25
  It's tough because sometimes I go months without having this
• 27:27
  need met. I'm only speaking for myself,
• 27:29
  but from talking to other people who have these kinks and these
• 27:33
  interests where it's not always totally sexual.
• 27:36
  And yes, there are often erotic undertones to it, but for some
• 27:40
  people, they really just enjoy this part of their life and it
• 27:44
  recharges their batteries. I think that's the best way to
• 27:46
  put it. That's a need they have.
• 27:48
  Just like some people. It's like when you crave a salty
• 27:50
  food or you crave A sugary food. I'm always craving sugar.
• 27:53
  Some people are always craving salt and they need that.
• 27:55
  They need it. That's what pink outside of sex
• 27:58
  can be like. There's such a huge scale to
• 28:00
  this. I'm listening to Tish and she's,
• 28:02
  you know, she's talking about her, her book interest in like
• 28:04
  the ROM com stuff. And like she thought that this
• 28:07
  book was very kinky to her. And then I think of the filth
• 28:12
  that I've been reading and going, Oh my God.
• 28:15
  Like I wouldn't necessarily enjoy any of the stuff that's
• 28:18
  actually happening inside of the book.
• 28:21
  I enjoy reading it for whatever fucked up reason that my brain
• 28:24
  loves. OK, for everyone who hasn't read
• 28:27
  Deep End, and I do think it's a book worth reading personally
• 28:30
  for everyone who hasn't read it. Like the issue we're talking
• 28:32
  about is they talk about king things and he says some sexy
• 28:35
  stuff and says good girl and that turns her on.
• 28:39
  So there's like some praise going on.
• 28:40
  There's caretaking going on in that he looks out for her and is
• 28:43
  worried about her. There is sexual dominance in
• 28:46
  that he is taking control in the bedroom.
• 28:48
  But that is the long and short of it.
• 28:49
  There's no impact. There's nothing beyond that.
• 28:52
  So I think really just encapsulated everything that
• 28:55
  happens that's kinky in the yeah.
• 28:56
  Brenda, that was my number one note.
• 28:58
  Like clearly I'm on chapter 40 and all he's done is spanked
• 29:03
  her. Like I got so mad, so mad.
• 29:06
  Wait time out, though, I took notes too of sexy things that
• 29:10
  happened throughout the book that would be for me that I was
• 29:13
  like, why can't I find a man who understands this?
• 29:15
  So she doesn't say these things. In chapter 20, he kind of looks
• 29:19
  at her and says that she's unraveling, right?
• 29:21
  And I think that to be seen in a moment of just despair and like
• 29:25
  have it called out and named you feel seen.
• 29:28
  And so much of kink, especially for me is about feeling seen.
• 29:31
  Chapter 25, he says you just want to be enough.
• 29:35
  I felt seen by Lucas in that moment because that as a sub,
• 29:39
  sometimes when I'm in a dynamic with the right partner as a sub,
• 29:43
  a Dom can make me feel like I'm enough.
• 29:45
  And while I don't want to give anybody that power in real life,
• 29:48
  to be able to give them that power in a dynamic or a scene is
• 29:51
  really nice. It's comforting.
• 29:53
  I also like in Chapter 26, there's some education that
• 29:56
  happens. They explain what a scene is.
• 29:58
  And also, she calls out the fact that naming a Dom sub is
• 30:02
  cumbersome is what she says. And I think that that is a good
• 30:06
  point. Final note, Chapter 27, he names
• 30:08
  what she wants. There's something very hot in
• 30:10
  that. That's like during their first
• 30:12
  sex scene. So throughout the book, there
• 30:15
  are these dominant traits or things you're looking for in a
• 30:17
  partner that as a sub, I'm like, I want someone to know these
• 30:21
  things and understand these things about me.
• 30:23
  And I think that's the part that hits really well.
• 30:26
  And it's probably going to be so appealing to a lot of vanilla
• 30:28
  people. I feel like now that I'm
• 30:30
  understanding more about what kink is, and I feel like the way
• 30:33
  you're explaining it, Amanda, it's more of like the technical
• 30:36
  side of it, you know, like the negotiation, the talking and all
• 30:40
  that. And then probably like with
• 30:41
  what's going on in these dark romance books, I feel like now
• 30:45
  I'm understanding that maybe the dark romance books are more
• 30:49
  fantasy than King. Yes.
• 30:51
  Is that correct? Yeah, that's a pretty good way
• 30:54
  to put it. It's like that's not really
• 30:56
  gonna happen in that way. So it is a lot of fantasy, but
• 30:59
  there's like books that bridge the gap a little bit better of
• 31:03
  it being much more realistic and still being kink and dirty and
• 31:07
  like, intense. But without that, we're not
• 31:10
  talking fantasy like fantasy novels.
• 31:12
  We're talking fantasy, like real versus yeah, imaginary
• 31:15
  scenarios. Yeah, 'cause like from what I'm
• 31:17
  getting based on, like the other episodes as well, every single
• 31:21
  step has consent in it. Like with these parties that you
• 31:25
  go to, with these couples that you meet with their own play
• 31:28
  partners and all that. Like there's consent in every
• 31:32
  aspect, and that's not really something that you read on these
• 31:35
  books. Like they just do it right.
• 31:37
  So a lot of people ask me questions about, well, is this
• 31:40
  kinky or is that kinky? And my answer is always around
• 31:44
  consent because I'm like, is it through the lens of consenting
• 31:47
  to it? Because if it is, you
• 31:49
  automatically put a layer on it of this is a power exchange and
• 31:53
  we're discussing it out in the open.
• 31:54
  If it's not there, then I don't view it as kink because even
• 31:58
  though it might be a kinky thing, but until it's done
• 32:01
  through the lens of consent to negotiate, I don't think it's
• 32:05
  kinky. I think it's problematic.
• 32:07
  One just asked me about is pushing someone's head down
• 32:10
  during a blowjob kinky? And I'm like, it can be if
• 32:14
  you've talked about it and that's been negotiated and then
• 32:16
  you understand there's an agreed upon power exchange.
• 32:19
  If not, it's just a Dick move. The consent piece, it has to be
• 32:23
  part of it or it's not kink. I think what was a lot of these
• 32:26
  like fantasy books. So there is a level of consent
• 32:29
  for most of them. Now, some of them you're right,
• 32:32
  but they actually we have unconsent consent or whatever.
• 32:35
  What do you call that, Amanda? Consensual non consent, where
• 32:39
  you kind of put your boundaries in place and it's like safe
• 32:42
  words still exist, but there's a lot of free reign in that, yeah.
• 32:45
  So I think the fantasy world plays with that very strongly in
• 32:51
  a lot of different spaces. And this brings up an
• 32:53
  interesting point about trigger warnings and many kingsters.
• 32:57
  We really want trigger warnings at the beginning of books.
• 32:59
  But at the same time, I'm also like, this is fantasy and it
• 33:02
  needs to be understood. You're going in and watching
• 33:04
  fantasy. It's like TV in the 70s, though,
• 33:06
  where there were people out there who thought that was real.
• 33:09
  So I guess there is some responsibility on authors to say
• 33:13
  this is what happens in this book.
• 33:14
  It's not real, This isn't a real representation or it shouldn't
• 33:17
  be practiced this way. The way I always describe it is
• 33:20
  it's easier to suspend your disbelief if it is in a fantasy
• 33:25
  world, like a true non world. Whereas when it's tied to actual
• 33:28
  reality and it feels like something that could happen, it
• 33:32
  can affect us a lot more because there's a frame of reference, a
• 33:36
  real lived frame of reference. What I'm going to say about the
• 33:39
  kink side of the book is that it might not be inherently super
• 33:43
  kinky, There might be no CNC or specific kinks that are
• 33:47
  explored, but the emotional involvement and dynamic is
• 33:51
  partly there in the way he sees her.
• 33:53
  However, I don't believe he's showing up enough for her.
• 33:57
  So he swoops in and says all the right things when he's there,
• 34:01
  but then what we don't go through is how she must be
• 34:04
  feeling in the days that he's away and she's not hearing from
• 34:07
  him. We see her stress about it like
• 34:09
  she's freaking out because he's not communicating, but there's
• 34:12
  no real communication on her part about it.
• 34:15
  She like makes snide remarks about it as opposed to handling
• 34:19
  it head on. I mean that's realistic I think.
• 34:22
  A 21 year old. Probably right?
• 34:25
  Yeah, but. I had moments in it where I was
• 34:27
  like, wait, if I had just went along with it for longer, would
• 34:30
  it have all worked out? Like fantasy questions, like
• 34:34
  communication matters? It should have mattered more in
• 34:36
  the book too. I felt it was out of character
• 34:38
  that he would just leave. He'd be so good at being a Dom
• 34:40
  and paying attention to her, but would not consider her in a lot
• 34:44
  of what he was doing. Yeah, you were in the moment
• 34:47
  when they were in front of each other.
• 34:49
  He was so good and attentive and he notices all of of the little
• 34:54
  things about her, but then doesn't notice that she's upset
• 34:57
  when he doesn't communicate whatsoever.
• 34:59
  Also what is so funny about this is in this book this girl is
• 35:02
  struggling with German even though he's Swedish.
• 35:04
  She does Start learning Swedish for him on Duolingo, but he buys
• 35:08
  her the Duolingo subscription, which is a nice move.
• 35:12
  I think I was feeling a lot similar, but I would be talking
• 35:14
  to Brenda about things and she'd be like, have you read this book
• 35:16
  yet? Because she was dying to like
• 35:18
  show the parallels. It was really interesting, but
• 35:21
  I'm not a 21 year old diver. I was not dating a 24 year old
• 35:25
  Olympic swimmer. It was a different world, but
• 35:27
  there were some similarities. OK, here is my final thoughts on
• 35:31
  The Deep End by Ali Hazelwood through the lens of the King
• 35:36
  Consultant. What I'm going to say is, was it
• 35:38
  that kinky or spicy? On a scale of one to 10, the
• 35:41
  kink itself was probably A2. What I will say about it that I
• 35:45
  really liked is there was nothing dangerous.
• 35:47
  There were no boundaries crossed.
• 35:48
  It was all talked about and consent was discussed.
• 35:52
  So like the kink safety was there, the communication was not
• 35:56
  there. And everybody knows at least by
• 35:58
  now, that is my biggest pet peeve.
• 36:00
  So I think that if you were going to be in a dynamic like
• 36:02
  this, you need to be able to advocate for your own needs.
• 36:05
  And I wasn't seeing that on either side.
• 36:06
  Actually. It was sort of like they just
• 36:08
  sort of fell into what they were doing while I talked about it.
• 36:11
  There was no conversation and naming the actual like what the
• 36:15
  dynamic would look like. And that was the biggest sort of
• 36:18
  plot hole for me in the world of kink.
• 36:20
  But it was a fun book and I enjoyed that part of it as a
• 36:24
  kink book. No red flags, just some sort of
• 36:27
  like this could be better. No green.
• 36:29
  Flags either minimal green flags.
• 36:31
  True. With this episode, I am going to
• 36:34
  call it as the official kickoff of the King Consultant Book
• 36:38
  Club. Check the show notes to see how
• 36:40
  you can join. So join the Patreon, get into
• 36:43
  the book club, and we'll do a monthly call where we all get to
• 36:46
  discuss a kinky book that we've all agreed to read.
• 36:51
  If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
• 36:54
  a review and share it with anyone who might find it
• 36:56
  interesting. And if you have any questions or
• 36:58
  topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
• 37:01
  reach out. e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
• 37:05
  Until next time.