Latest / Veteran Wellness Podcast / Train Smarter, Age Stronger: A Green Beret's Wake-Up Call | Kevin Edgerton
Transcript
- Kevin Edgerton: April eighth, twenty sixteen, my boss, the Lieutenant Colonel Schroeder, was killed in the line of duty by a soldier. ERIK LAWRENCE: What? Kevin Edgerton: Murder suicide. A kid that just failed in doc I don't know the guy's name. I will never repeat this motherfucker's name. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: prior Green Beret. Yes. ERIK LAWRENCE: No. Kevin Edgerton: and then I had to go to work every day to the same location that this murder suicide happened. and that messed me up more than, you know, being downrange. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: to have to go back to 'cause downrange you you leave. I'm I don't go, you know what I mean? That that should happen. That's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: that that's there. But to go back to work to the same place same same location day after day after day. just weared me down and ERIK LAWRENCE: Kevin. How you doing this morning? I'm doing great. I'm very happy Kevin Edgerton: Good, how you doing, Eric? Appreciate you having me on the podcast. ERIK LAWRENCE: to happy to get to time with you there now that I know you were an 18 Echo and not just straight 18 Alpha. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, it it it it ruffles some feathers sometimes. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I know, but it it cost me a year with not contacting you. Kevin Edgerton: Are you? ERIK LAWRENCE: till one of my friends goes, No, he was an echo. I'm like, shit. I I feel like an idiot now. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: So, but you know, you did a lot of time in the army, you know, kinda go through with, you know, where where you came up and and why'd you get in the army and how'd you get to where you're at now. Kevin Edgerton: so kid grew up on the south side of Chicago, place called Hammond, Indiana, it's two and a half blocks away from the south side, better known as the region. eighteen year old kid, college wasn't on the horizon, went to the Marine recruiter 'cause my dad was a jar head. And when I came back and told him I was at the recruiting office and told him I was gonna join the Corps, he was like, The fuck you are exact same three words. He's like, You can go back to the Air Force, the Navy and Army and find out which job best so my ASVAB score was dismal, like god awful. I think I was probably I think that's what it's called when I took that test in high school. You know, it was but you was a high school kid. so low score, Air Force was like, yeah, we we are not even talking to you. And I didn't want to be on a ship because my dad told me about the hotboxing with the bunks, how the Navy guys did it. So Army was petroleum office petroleum person, combat engineer. or cook and I was like and my I I was a I was like take that combat engineer thing. so I became combat engineer twelve Bravo right off the street. first duty assignment was in Germany when the wall was still up and when it came down. It was pretty pretty unique pretty ERIK LAWRENCE: nice. Kevin Edgerton: unique time. Greg Lamont won two tours de Frances when I was over in Germany. And then Germany won the World Cup in 1990. And I've never seen a country celebrate so much in my life. was pretty cool. That was probably one of the my favorite experiences in Germany was watching people go absolutely insane to win the World Cup. It was great. Shield Des Storm kicked off. We're supposed to have gotten out. Did go to school. Ours already registered to go to Indiana State University. This is pre- now we people gotta talk about pre-stuff. There's pre-fax machines and really pre-computers this time. this is nineteen early nineteen ninety, ninety ninety-one, right? Yeah, ERIK LAWRENCE: Not eight, one, yep. Kevin Edgerton: so I got stopped loss. I was supposed to get out November 27th, 1990. Got stopped lost. Was like, hey, I was supposed to start school in January, and they're like, show us, you know what I mean? So my mom had to send my trans mean my my schedule, got that all taken care of. 2104, you know, they're 4187 was signed by a Fulberg commander to say, Yeah, yes, he is, you know, he can get out. And so Long story, fucking shipped off from Germany because you got an ETS out of Fort Dix. Get to Fort Dix. And you know, I'm a good E4, got my yellow manila envelope. Don't open it, right? Cause it's sealed and it says do not open until you get there. Hand over my big old manila envelope. And the lady at the S1 was like, Huh? What you doing here? I was like, ETSing. She's like, how? well there's a 4187 in that packet that says that this ERIK LAWRENCE: no. Kevin Edgerton: Fulbird Colonel signed that says I can get out and start college. They're like she's like where? She opened it just it's it wasn't in there. They forgot to put the 4187 ERIK LAWRENCE: jees. Kevin Edgerton: in there called you know so you call back up to the unit and The lady's like, you got forty eight hours to produce that piece of paper. I got the paper like ten days later. So I got reassigned to Fort Dix for the for the end of the desert for the Desert Shield Desert Storm until it ended. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: And then I got out. Started college, did college for three and a half years. the second like within thirty days of me getting out the military, I realized that yeah, I should have stayed in. You know what I mean? But Slick Williet ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: took office. It was af after Digital Desert Storm. they were doing a big cutback. I think they cut off like a half a million. I mean it was a lot. They took a lot. It ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. It was terrible. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: they took a lot, right? And so I mean like every couple months I was trying to get back in while In college. In college, you know, started off great and then it went petered out. But you know, I did finally get back in, went to Fort Hood. did not like first calf whatsoever, being a 12 Bravo in a mechanized unit. did NTC rotation, it was squad sticks, platoon sticks, company sticks. Time sticks and then we would go to N T C like clockwork every year. ERIK LAWRENCE: god. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, and wrote it was god awful. so like, hey, how am I gonna get out of this? And then I heard the stories of you know, the other guys that you know, they get stuck from Fort Hood. I had guys that go to Korea for a year and come right back to the same unit, was like, no, no, no, I ERIK LAWRENCE: No. Kevin Edgerton: mean getting stuck of doing this. So looked up, you know, found special forces. I when I remember when I was in Germany we had a guy that went and tried out, he did pretty well. got selected and so I was like, let me try this out. so, you know, looked it up, trained up for it the first time, got towed by, you know, the doc by the tenth day. I think I made it to day 10. And he I was like I was limp I was bad. And so he took X rays of both feet, and he's like, Yeah, you got grade four, stress fracture and every metatarsal of your feet and he's and you know, he's like, Hey, you can keep on going, you know, or you can just recycle and come back in a year And I was like, Well Doc, you know, remember I don't know if you remember the old Doc back in the day, the the one that was ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I was like, Hey, what would you do? You know what I mean? I I asked him, I was like, What would you do? And he's like, I would just recycle, I'd come back in a year because if you continue, you're gonna be hard broke and you'll be down ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: for anywhere for a year to eighteen months. Whereas you Just med drop, yeah, and you come back in a year and do it again. So I came back in a year. and before that, the one of the reasons why I trained up wrong too. So this is where the human performance stuff comes in. told you earlier I had a what was called the the Cadillac rucksack. It was a embedded ruck frame, you know what I mean? And I was training up with like 80 pounds, so I thought I was gonna be great at selection, but that that was a Cadillac rucksack. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and when I got to Camp McCall, they handed out the pinto. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: the Alice Pack large, right? And then you ERIK LAWRENCE: Yep. Kevin Edgerton: gotta put the water on the outside. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and that thing broke me off. so when I got back to Hood, got the hood, exchanged, you know what I mean? Went to a pawn shop, was like, hey, I'll give you this ruck. Then I think I paid like six, eight hundred bucks, I can't remember, for the ruck. It was a nice ruck my dad got I'll trade you this for the large Alice pack with frame and two two quarts. And the guy was like, Done deal. You know what I mean? So he he got, he got a good deal out of that. What again? I went back a year later, got selected. six months later, went to airborne school. Yeah, at airborne school, fourth jump, snapped my ankle. Broke it. ERIK LAWRENCE: for God's sakes. Come on. Kevin Edgerton: Yep, broke it. And then you know what mean? And One of those things that happened to me when I was in college, I told a fib, right, in in one of the my f exercise physiology class. No, it was just physiology class, it wasn't exercise, a physiology class. my final exam, I was I slept through the final and the professor called and he was like, Hey Kev, Did you make it here for the test? And I was like, and I immediately said, Yeah, what do you mean? and I lied. Yeah, because it was eight o'clock of class, eight o'clock test in the morning. that night I'd studied all really hard. I was I did really I was doing well. I had a B in the class, like a B plus, and I wanted to get an A. So I stayed up all night. And the class was at eight. I set my alarm clock for 7 p.m. and slept right through it. Right, 7 p.m. Right. You got that? Yeah, not ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah, not AM. Yeah, oops. Kevin Edgerton: the AM, right? So the oops woke up to the phone. call in my dorm and you know did that lie not a good not a good thing and you know and he's like well hey let me run the I'm gonna run the scan sheets again you know just stay by your phone and I was like sure man that I he hung up he called back in like five about about 30 seconds ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, he's like callin' bullshit. Kevin Edgerton: yeah he called back like back in 30 seconds he he was like hey Kevin so you know with the what color were my test I was like, they were white. they're always white. He was like, bean, they were all green and red because I basically gave out Christmas gifts for the final exam. And he's like, you know what, for lying to me? I'm gonna give you a D- I was like, demon, why is that? He's like, well, if you you take the class again next semester, which I you do, you and you get an A, your average is still gonna be a D. So that nursing program ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: that you want to get into is not gonna accept you because you have the the lowest score you can have is a C. And I was fuck. So that was it for college, right? That was it for college. ERIK LAWRENCE: Little hard lesson. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: And you know, I like I said, joined the military, but going back to the point of the airborne thing. I was in the at the the hospital all night, I got a cast put on, got done out of the hospital, hobbled over to the airborne people information and they called out my name, I'd go up and I'd get my s my packet. It's got all five jumps, it's got my airborne certificate, you know. Again, this is exactly that's one of those things that's like I should have just hobbled right off and went right to Fort ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Bragg, but that that one that one time that I did that mess up, I went up to the black hat to the NCOIC. I was like, Hey, I didn't I didn't make this fifth jump. He's like, What do you mean? I was like, Yeah, I broke my ankle last night and I've been in the hospital all night. And he's like, just go go go to N S the the S one guy, the guy I told him that same story. He took the certificate, ripped it in half, took my jump log, took a black marker, that last one blacked it out. And I was like, Well, what do I do now? He's like, just go to Bragg. You go to Bragg. Within six months you do that, you'll you can do the fifth jump and you'll be airborne qualified. And I was like, okay, so I drive all the way up the brag, coming like I said, I was at Fort Hood, drive up the Bragg. I was gonna be a Delta at the time. And that that's when back in the day when the the Delta compound had just gotten built. You know what I mean? The nine you that ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Kevin Edgerton: was your time, Eric. It was just brand new barracks. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I'm sitting there, day two or three of them processing, get a knock on the door, and it's a it's a GB. And at the time, you're not a GB, so you puck a fractor's like, and he's like, hey, the lady on the third floor needs to see you. So I hobble over to the lady and she's like, Staff Sergeant Edgerton, hey, how you doing? I was like, fine. She's like, well, I got some bad news and I got worser news. I was like, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: bad news and worser news. And she's like, well the bad news is you can't start the Q course. I was like, well, I know I got my Yeah duh, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, duh. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: my she's like, the worst of news is since you're a T D DYing route from one school to another school, the rules are you have to finish the one prior before going starting the other. And since you didn't finish ERIK LAWRENCE: You're going back to Benning. Kevin Edgerton: this one, you have to go back to your original duty station back at Fort Hood. After I told everybody at Fort Hood, you know what I mean, the pound sand. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: So needless to say, yes, life, ERIK LAWRENCE: my lord. A lot of life lessons. Kevin Edgerton: life, life lessons. So three and a half years later, two surgeries on that left ankle, finally got to the Q course, was finishing up 18 Echo course when 9-11 happened. remember vividly Bryant Hall. We got ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I think I was in language school, if I'm not mistaken. We got put on break, you know what I mean? something just happened and CQ desk was right there. They got the TV. And I remember looking and that second plane just came rim right into that thing. And I was like, and I remember looking around, was like. Shit just got fucking real. You know what I mean? I was like, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I I was coming a GB to be a cool guy, not you know not not to really work. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, not to work, not go to war, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I was I was supposed to wear sunglasses and keep my hands in my pocket like I saw in Bosnia. so you know, then you know, did that there was Echo, went up the first group, was at SIGET for a while. I I was a senior E6 at the time and didn't make the seven list and Asked the sergeant major why. He's like, well, your time just started all over. You're young, basically you don't have nothing. You're not, you're not, and you're not a jump master, you're not dive qualified, you're not ranger, you don't have nothing. You just got a long tab, and so your clock basically started over. And I was like, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: fuck. So I'm looking for something else. And I was like, well, I guess I'm looked up OCS. I don't know why, but I did, and it was like yeah, you got I had 90 credit hours at the time. And it looked into it. That's all you needed for OCS. And once you become a first lieutenant, you can go back to school on the government dime and ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Kevin Edgerton: finish up the degree. You get 18 months to do that. So I I dropped my OCS packet in, became a chemical officer, which which people would think would be a bad thing, right? Well, turns out it was a great thing to become a chemical officer. You know why, Eric? ERIK LAWRENCE: You had a lot of time. Kevin Edgerton: No, no. The reason why it's a good thing to become a chemical officer is because there's one chemical officer, one signal officer, and one MI officer that's that can come to group. Those lieutenants can come back to group. Yes. Those are the only ERIK LAWRENCE: no kidding. I didn't even think of that. Yeah, we used to harass the shit out of 'cause yeah, they weren't typically tapped even. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Right, right, right, exactly. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I didn't learn that either until I w so when I got picked up for seventy four alpha, which is a chemical officer, I was like, I don't wanna I hate, you know, I don't wanna NBC mop gear, you know, stuff. so I was at OCS, right, and you know, the word got out that you like the first couple of weeks you can, you know, change branches if somebody else wants to switch with you. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yes, wow. Kevin Edgerton: Right, do a swap right there. You know what I mean? And they're the did it. And you know, the word got out and this ranger bat kid comes up to me, he's like, Hey, I'll change out with you right now. I was like he's like, I heard you wanted to be eleven b you know, you know, infantry and I was like, Yeah, I don't wanna be no chemical officer. He's like, I'll switch with you and I was like, W why would you switch with me? He's like and he told me the exact same thing. A chemical officer, a signal officer, and an MI officer can go back to Ranger Regiment or in two ev or ERIK LAWRENCE: Ranger Battalion, yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: or any of you know what I mean? Any special operations ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: branch. And I was like, thanks for that knowledge. Now I'll keep this I'll keep this semi four alpha ERIK LAWRENCE: Thanks for the intel. Kevin Edgerton: thing. And so I got became a semi-four alpha chemical officer, But I had orders to Carson, so I knew tenth group was there, but it was third ACRC. And when I got to tenth group, I mean when I got to Carson and I had to go ask tenth group if they would take me. and long story short on that, they're like, Yeah, we'll take you. And so I was a a long tab second ERIK LAWRENCE: Course, yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: lieutenant in in a group and third ERIK LAWRENCE: E echo. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, so I was in OAF three. they were already downrange. I met them up, you know, I got down there. Well a great time. Dorsey Rogers was my battalion commander. I think he retired as a three star commander. Tovo was the group commander, I think, at the time. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yep. Tobo, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Great guy. you know, it was just the the leadership there was great. And I thought I was gonna so when I you know, put my eighteen alpha packet back in, I was gonna go back to tenth group, right? But I got the Captain's Career course because you gotta do all the officer training, that the fun school stuff that, God, right ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Sorry. Kevin Edgerton: six six more months at Fort Benning again, you know what I mean, of Captain's career course. and the branch manager was like, Hey, I see you're in first group, I can get you to Okinawa right now. You know what I mean? I can switch in the ERIK LAWRENCE: Okay. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Okie. And I was like, you know what I mean, and you know the mystique about Okie. I was like. ERIK LAWRENCE: I went to Oakie, yeah, of course. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? So you I was like, yeah, I'll go to Okie and but first I I called my called the boss to make sure it was okay and she said it was good to go. So went to Okie, was a team leader for three and a half years, good time was a team leader for one one two. we were the recce element for Charlie Company. for a little bit for like a year we were switching between Alpha and Bravo for the Recce element for Charlie Company. the SIF team did a OEFP deployment as a team leader. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Nice. Kevin Edgerton: And then once once I retired in 14 well what when I got back out of Oki, I went back to Bragg and I was the at SATMO and at SATMO was security assistant training management group. And ERIK LAWRENCE: I never heard of it, really. Kevin Edgerton: so this is the this the they do the FMS stuff, the foreign military sales. this is what ERIK LAWRENCE: okay. Okay. Yeah yeah yeah. I never heard it called that though. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, so that if you say the foreign military sales people like, I know that what is, but security assistant training management, it's a organization that's on brag and they go out and once we once a foreign our host nation buys something will it comes with training as well and so we would go across the world. Yeah, s so it's pretty ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I used to sell things through FMS. So yeah, I didn't see that other side. Kevin Edgerton: pretty pretty unique seeing that side. When I was at Bragg, I d in eighteen months I was finishing up my master's degree in health sports science. ERIK LAWRENCE: nice. Kevin Edgerton: And retired one June 2014. My first job out was at UNC Chapel Hill as a ROTC instructor. I applied for the position at Lackland to be a strength coach because that's what you know, that's what at the end goal, that was my desired end state was to become a strength coach somewhere. And did the interview, got picked up, but I told, you know, Me and the wife talked, I was like, man, I really don't want to. We just came from Oakie. We'd moved from Colorado. I don't want to back move to Fort Hood. I think I was just gonna stay, I was gonna stay in North Carolina, just be an ROTC instructor. until the contract got cut two weeks later. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Kevin Edgerton: You know what I mean? I was there for like a month. The contract got cut. I was like, well, ERIK LAWRENCE: Damn it. Kevin Edgerton: I guess I'm going to For the Air Force at Lackland, which was a good thing, you know what I mean? I became a strength coach for what was called the 342nd Battlefield Airmen Training Squadron, which grew into what is known now as the special warfare training wing. So it went from a squadron where there used to be 74 of us to what is a wing to which is 550 or plus now. And I did that until I think August of 2001. in 2020, I started 18 Alpha Fitness. in by before I left the Air Force though, 18 Alpha took off like a rocket ship. just because I think I was like, you know, there weren't that many there weren't that many SF guys training outside for SFAS at the time. now there's a lot. ERIK LAWRENCE: No. Yeah. No, I think it was a great idea. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: There's there's a whole lot of us now. There's there's boy, there's a lot, lot, lot. but the one thing that th makes me unique is, you know, again, I'm yeah, I'm Echo, prior echo, prior alpha. I got a master's degree, I got every certificate that's under the sun in human performance. I probably got over 30 certifications. so yeah, that's that's from the okay. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well let's let's go over the Air Force program that I I I've been highly impressed with. When I interviewed an old buddy of mine, Mike Green, he brought up that he ran into some of your crews like that and he couldn't fucking believe how they could perform. It was amazing. and he was explaining it as a a second third hand. But you were there. And I think that's what Kevin Edgerton: Right. Yeah, I was the ERIK LAWRENCE: we need to hear. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, so when I was there it was like I said, it was a unique it it was a unique time. it was The the the training pipeline for the combat controllers was a two week selection process at at Lackland, right? Once they got selected, then they would come on what was called red team, start going and then they would go to Mississippi, do the air traffic control school. we had a coach out there as well. Then when they got back from air traffic control school, they would come back to me and they would be at Lackland for anywhere from four to six months. And, you know, and During that time I I created what what what better known as monsters. and I the way h how I did that was, you know, back in the day the cadre had for eight hours. So for them it was eight hours of just smoking the shit out of for eight straight hours. Well, after our you know what I mean, I I day one of me ERIK LAWRENCE: That's that's counterproductive. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, the day one of me arriving to Lackland. I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna take out you know what I mean. I briefed the guys, I was like, Hey, I'm gonna take like thirty days to get to know what you guys are doing, how you guys operate before I implement any changes. Right. And I think I changed everything the first twenty-four hours. Twenty-four hours later ERIK LAWRENCE: Excellent. Kevin Edgerton: I was like, Yeah, we're not you're not putting these guys through 'Cause in the morning they would either run a ruck or swim every morning, right? So probably I think they were they were swimming three times a week, running, rucking twice a week and and you know what I mean, it was it was a lot of volume. And that was just for the morning like session. And then after breakfast, then they would do a strength session and then after lunch they would do another strength session. it just too much volume, right? Right, no recovery ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, no recovery. Yeah, no way. Kevin Edgerton: whatsoever. And I was like, well we're gonna thin that down a lot by a lot. so, you know, we got it to where it was swimming three times a week, running once a week and rucking once a week and maybe did a second run in in the afternoons because in Texas I don't know if you know this, but it it's awful hot from June ERIK LAWRENCE: I've heard that, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: to October. It's a little warm. But we would run in the afternoons some you know what mean. But I would make sure that But I all I did was thumb down the workouts and then they weren't all but back when I when I seen the workouts that were handed to me back then, it was they were all every one of them was like forty eight different CrossFit workouts with no ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, no. Kevin Edgerton: with no progressive overload, no recovery built in the plan, no let's just just do w a one rep max on just this body part. let's just do you know what I mean, there was nothing. There was just a a bunch of shit just thrown at And like I said, I peeled it all back. And implemented a lot of mobility. so instead of those other hours that were just guys sitting around, we were I was stretching them out, which I I do it's called f functional anatomy seminars, which is FRC, taking controlled articulations, taking each joint through a full range of motion, doing progressive and regressive isometric loads on that tissue to give it better capacity. So the injury rates also reduce down from doing that and just from me being a nerd in f performance picked up a book one day called what doesn't kill us by Scott Kearney. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yep, that's a great book, yep. Kevin Edgerton: Right. And the hot Scott Carney went to the Netherlands to debunk Wim. He says it in the book. He's like, you know, that's the ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Nope. Kevin Edgerton: whole purpose why he went there. And when I was reading that, I was coming back from a seminar and Wim puts him in, you know, the dirty breath technique, you know, three ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: to four cycles of that. And then it you know, before he even started, he had him do the push-ups, right? ERIK LAWRENCE: Push up test, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Right. And then he ran him through the cycle of the breaths and then you know, did the push-ups again and his input push-ups almost doubled. And I was like, There's no no way you know what I mean. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. I I had to reread that a couple of times. I'm like, what? No way. Kevin Edgerton: Right. So you're you know what I mean? So you're just like I was like, there's no way this works, right? and I mean I was on a plane, I was flying back from Chicago back to Lackland and I'm doing the breaths. I almost got in the middle of the aisle to start the press-ups just to, you know, to see if it actually worked. But I was like, I'll I'll wait until tomorrow. I couldn't sleep that night. It was a Sunday night, Monday morning, and we'll back up on that. so two weeks prior to that weekend. I got a call that from Endoc. The first time Endoc reached out to me as a strength coach to be like, hey, we got these two guys, we got a second lieutenant and a senior airman that just can't pass the PT test. And and and the final evaluation, they have to pass. They had to do 70 push-ups. And you know, I'm I mean I know a lot of you guys on here are like, 70 push-ups is easy. Yeah, okay. 70 push-ups is not that hard, but when you're doing 11 weeks of indoc. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: And every Monday is a PT test. You're recovery, there's no recovery whatsoever. You're getting your shit pushed in every day, you know. And then, by the way, this wasn't just their first 11 weeks. They'd already got recycled. So they're 19 weeks into 19 ERIK LAWRENCE: well, they're a wreck. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: weeks into an indoc, right? So they had no tie to recover whatsoever. And so when they called, I was like, I went over there and I was like. Here, here's some push-up workouts. Here's some tricep things that you can try, right? That was the week prior to me picking up that book. that Monday, I, you know, after I read that book, there's just that section, I was like, we're gonna try, I'm gonna try this. So I call over to Endoc. I was like, hey, I need that senior airman, that second lieutenant, to come over to my section, because it was just we were just at two different locations. They're like, they're doing the PT test. I'm like, ERIK LAWRENCE: Damn it. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: The fuckers ain't getting no recovery. You know what I mean? So they took the PT test. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna do this with my combat controllers, my red team guys. And I put them through those cycles of breath. And I was like, and all I was like, hey, all you guys know what you guys usually initially stop at for your PT, you know, push-ups, right? Mine was 50. I would not stop until I did knock out 50. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Of course. Yeah, I was forty two. Kevin Edgerton: No, mine was 50. I every time I was 50, then boom, and then in the army, you can go into that big wicked downward dog and stuff, right? And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, hell yeah. Kevin Edgerton: come back down. In the Air Force, no. Plank position only, right? You cannot move. Yes, yes. So stay, ERIK LAWRENCE: That's not fun. Kevin Edgerton: no, not fun at all. And when I first saw that, I was like, holy shit. So you gotta stay in ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: the plank position. You can't go into a downward dog. Your butt can't sag anything. You can only stay there to recover. Right. Yes. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Noted. Kevin Edgerton: Noted, right? So a lot harder lot harder push up tests for all you push up experts that thinking seventy is easy. There's no downward dog and to d you know, to get up that relief off your chest. So that morning I ran a red team through it, right? I had 40 guys, they all knew, you know what I mean. They were like, yeah, mine is this, mine is that. You know, I was like, I don't care what it is, just know what yours is, right? And that first initial stop. What we're gonna do is we're gonna run through this breath work. Three cycles: belly, chest, head, belly, chest, head, belly, chest, head, right? And then on the last one on the exhale, you're gonna hold it, right? And then when you feel like you need some oxygen, you take a deep breath in, you need to squeeze. right then on the fourth or fifth one instead of on the you you know you hold you hold your breath and you do as many pushups as you can right that's when I want you to stop knock out as many as you can when you got to take a breath just stop and that's what I want you guys to do. And we did that huh? Yeah they did they were like ERIK LAWRENCE: did they scoff at ya? Did they scoff at ya? Kevin Edgerton: what what what the hell is this right? But when they got done and like I was like okay well how many push-ups did you increase by from your initial ones the dude was like 12 How many did you like eight? How many six? everybody had improved, but one or two people, right? so that you know what I mean? 40 and only like two people didn't improve. I was like, I'm I'm good with this, right? So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. It's win. Kevin Edgerton: then I thought was like, well, what else can I add to this to actually even improve this even more? Right? And I was like, huh, you know. Since we're already doing breath work, why don't we do like we do when we're fucking bench pressing? take a deep breath in when you go down, and when you come up, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: after you know what I mean after that first initial one so that afternoon that senior airman and that second lieutenant they finally came over to my location at two o'clock in the afternoon after they did the PT test after they did all the swim events the senior airman got 62 pushups the lieutenant got 66 that morning that morning they had just did all that and the and the run and the pull-ups and all the swim the whole the ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah, they'd already smoked themselves, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: whole kit and cabodle So they come and I was like, this is what we're gonna do. Did the explain the whole cycles of breath, how we're gonna do it. I had them practicing, holding the, breathing through the diaphragm, belly, chest, head, ran the whole gamut. And I was like, okay, after, after you, your first initial one and you stop and you breathe, then I want you to breathe with a purpose. Breathe in and breathe out, just like you are a benching. And like, okay. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Man, we ran that cycle, that fucking lieutenant got 76, that senior airman got 74. I was like, you remember those workouts I gave you, that bull, I'd say, throw that shit out. I want you to practice ERIK LAWRENCE: Throw it away. Kevin Edgerton: this technique. Every night before your PT test on Monday morning, right? Because and that that final that one that following Monday was their final e-valve. If they didn't make it, they were done. They were going to do something else. They both passed. After that, I would get a call for every class to run that, you know, teach the a PJ or two how to pass the pass test. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, that's amazing. I and it's just those little things like that. And you know, we all know how Wim kinda came upon that was not you know, on purpose, you know, Kevin Edgerton: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: so it's just amazing how how the breath is underestimated and and not properly done Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: in an exercise format, you know. Yeah, we have to relearn the old lessons constantly. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. I was in a really fortunate time when I was there at Lackland. And I was like, hey, I after that happened, I went to the EXO. I was like, I Wim is holding a a breathing seminar up in Vancouver. I wanna go, but I I didn't go see Wim the first time. In the book in ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: in in What Doesn't Kill Us, it says if you really wanna learn Wim Hof breathing technique, find Casper. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Casper. Kevin Edgerton: yes, Casper. And he was the he's the lead instructor for Wimhof. ERIK LAWRENCE: gotcha. Kevin Edgerton: So w and Casper used to be a biology teacher, so he can articulate it way better, go ERIK LAWRENCE: Got it. Kevin Edgerton: deep dive into it. And so the XO was like, sure, we'll pay for you to go, you know what I mean, go on up to Vancouver and A buddy of mine, he was in first group. He was a we were both in Robin Sage together as alphas. I'm sorry again. ERIK LAWRENCE: Sorry, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: But he was a he was he was a company commander. Well, we could be gonna become a company commander up there And I was like, hey, why don't you come up to Vancouver? And he's like, Are you going to Casper's thing? I was motherfucker, how in the hell did you I was going up there to that? He's like, because I read the book, you know what I mean? And it says in the book, find Casper. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and he's like, Yeah, I saw that it was coming. I was like, Well, just meet me up there, you pay for your seminar. I got the hotel because it's on the Uncle and Sam's dime, you know. So we we attended it. But when we were up there ERIK LAWRENCE: that's funny. Kevin Edgerton: Right. And while while we were there, Casper not only, showed us the the push-up one, but the a recovery breath work. my God. Man, it's ERIK LAWRENCE: Really. Kevin Edgerton: yeah, You know how the belly chest head stuff, right? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: You do that and then after, you know, a cycle, do you do like four cycles of that? And then you do rapid, super rapid. ERIK LAWRENCE: the fire breath, the Kevin Edgerton: Yes. And you do that for like 45 minutes. ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha. Kevin Edgerton: Bro, there was dudes bawling on the ground. Like like they had like some really deep shit that d just come out, you know what I mean? They were and right. ERIK LAWRENCE: Bet. Yeah. Well, it's a holotropic breathing that can generate DMT actually. Kevin Edgerton: That's basically what it did. And I we were like, whoa, you know what I mean? And I was when and he has you sit there, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't even think of that. Kevin Edgerton: relaxing, you know what I mean? You stay there for about like 10 minutes and just try to come back down and stuff. we get up, my buddy, his name is Dustin. there was a a a dentist, he's from Dallas. He's a black belt in jujitsu, he owns his own academy up there, really good guy. And he came, we we were became close friends and he's like, he's like, man, if you two weren't here, I wouldn't have believed this shit really worked. You know what I mean? He's like, because ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha. Kevin Edgerton: I can't believe these foo foo motherfuckers, you know what I mean, just started ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: boo. He's like, but good god, did you feel that? I was like, man, that was that was intense shit that we just did right there. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well it creates DMT actually. You know, it's Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: like I I've done that once with with a retreat and I'm like, that's D T. I mean you're actually so yeah, but wonder what that does on your whoop. You know, how's it show? Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. Yeah. my my d when I when I breathe, you know, my my heart rate usually stays pretty low. It does usually doesn't go amp up. I don't know. I I guess I need to try that out. I d I haven't done it. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I'd like to see that. Kevin Edgerton: I've only, you know what mean? I've only done I'll do the deep that deep stuff probably for 15 minutes. I've never done it for like on my own, just for fun for 45 minutes. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, no. Kevin Edgerton: You know what I mean? I gotta do it with a crew with a crew. You know what I mean? But somebody else and somebody else has to be leading it too. I can't just do it to myself. That's what I'm I guess I'm getting ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: at. I can't do it to myself. Somebody else has to be leading and talking me through it. But ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Back on to the bref stuff. So after I had I went up and did Casper, then I went to Beverly Hills and did one with Wim, and Casper was there to become a level two Wim Hoff instructor. And then, you know what I mean? It got so much impact in the Air Force that I had Casper come and train my instructors at Lackland for a three-day ERIK LAWRENCE: nice. Kevin Edgerton: seminar. And then when I when Endoc ended and we started pre-dive, you know, I'm sorry, there's people out there that don't believe. There's pre-dive out there, but yes, there's pre-dive in the Air Force, guys. Not it's not called pre-scuba, ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha. Kevin Edgerton: it's called pre-dive in the Air Force. Believe me, I worked at it, you know, when it first started. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I was, you know, I was a plank holder strength coach for the Air Force's pre-dive when it's when it implemented again. Not the indoc is gone, it's a pre-dive. ERIK LAWRENCE: Does it suck as bad as pre scuba? Kevin Edgerton: Fuck it, it's the same damn thing, man. It's only but it's only three weeks. It's not eleven weeks like Endoc was. So it's you know what I ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah, gotcha. Kevin Edgerton: mean? It's it's the the only difference is the long swims, there there's no ocean here. There's no American Lake like when I did pre scuba at first ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: group what we did you know, when dipped into Pugin Sound ERIK LAWRENCE: Freezing, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: or in January or American Lake. Fun ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, freezing. Kevin Edgerton: fun times. But yeah, so then I did a performance free dive institute where they came out for the pre dive for the instructors, and they did a breath one for breath hold stuff, and those guys ERIK LAWRENCE: Obviously. Yeah, minutes. Yeah, minutes. Kevin Edgerton: Minutes ain't a word. But it's the different get rid of the CO2 is what they do. They're offsetting all the CO2 because you're gonna build that back up on the hold. But they get it all out before the st they start the breath hold. And so it's really unique. So I did and then the only other breath work that I did was oxygen advantage with Patrick Mahone McCon. I did his stuff as well. So ERIK LAWRENCE: I never heard of that one, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. It's it's that one's a little it's not as deep as Wimhoff. It's more I think it's more rela like relaxing type breath work, but you know what I mean, any type of breath work helps. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, understood. But how did y I saw a stat on injury reduction. I mean that was part of the problem. We were constantly injured in group and we didn't recover and we didn't have any idea, you know, you're gonna ruck the next day even if you know, got a broken fucking ankle. you know, but with with these better methodology you had to have a lot less injuries. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, my the injury rate from when I took over to when I left, it went from you know, it used to be at like a 66% injury rate. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm. Kevin Edgerton: and when I left, it was down to 18 to 16 percent. ERIK LAWRENCE: that's huge. Kevin Edgerton: and again, it's all, you know what I mean, from you know, people don't believe it, but but it's from the breath work, it's from the mobility work. And and recovery, you know what I mean? You got a nutrition as well. We had a you know our we finally we got a dietitian in and she had that mess hall for the special warfare people. I mean it there is nothing but nutritional value in there, you know what I mean? It wasn't the same yeah, it wasn't there ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, no junk. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: was very little there wasn't junk food there, you know what I mean? It had to been cooked. The only junk food you got was like a cake that was actually made. there wasn't, you know, like ho ho's and twinkies and stuff at these mess halls. ERIK LAWRENCE: So do you mean back in the nineties in group when we would have the the chow hall for breakfast, the green eggs and ham, Taco Bell for lunch, and maybe Burger King for dinner washed down with a twelve pack wasn't optimum for a special operator? Huh. What a my god. Kevin Edgerton: No. Nope, nope, that's actually counterproductive. Yeah. And and don't forget about the cigarettes you used to smoke because I used to love nuclear. ERIK LAWRENCE: My team sergeant would smoke two packs a day and smoke our bags every morning on a five or six mile run. Kevin Edgerton: on a run well they said the cigarettes ha offset the with the C O to that some people could run faster than others because they smoked. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: He could. my gosh. Yeah, he yeah, he's not used to oxygen. we we were on a mountain team. There'd be guys smoking at twelve and thirteen thousand feet. I'm like, are you high? What are you doing, dude? No, we Kevin Edgerton: Did you do Nepal? Did you go to Nepal? ERIK LAWRENCE: we lost my junior over there though, Jake Nolman. We were doing Kevin Edgerton: That was in ninety eight, wasn't it? ERIK LAWRENCE: No, that was well, it might have been a ninety eight, yeah. Yeah, it was right after I left because I I wasn't on the team when they they sent a couple guys over, a couple of mountain team guys, and Jake fell. between ropes. He did, yeah. My Kevin Edgerton: Well he slipped off the mountain. I was out ERIK LAWRENCE: son's named Jake because of him. he was he was Kevin Edgerton: okay. Wow, that's ERIK LAWRENCE: brilliant, man. He could learn a language in two weeks. Brilliant guy. Great guy. Just Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, so I went to in O two or O I can't remember. When it's O two, O three, I went to Jomsam to Nepal and they they were like, Yeah, we there's a guy that woke up at twenty three five, didn't put his cramp ons on, and he disappeared. He slid off the fucking mountain. Went to go to the bathroom ERIK LAWRENCE: Walked off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Y Kevin Edgerton: and just gone. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, the Gore Tech slide is unforgiving. it was horrible. Horrible to hear. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, yeah. But I have so what's the highest you ever been to, Eric? ERIK LAWRENCE: sixteen. Yeah. Yeah, that's it's a different world. Kevin Edgerton: 16, so 23.5 in Jamsam. I don't know if people people don't people don't realize the the the pressure. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: it's unforgiving. and then you know, so I did that in 03, and then in 11, we went back to Nepal. I was a team leader, and I put in the thing we you know, we all did the endurance event up to Everest. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Just to the camp, yeah. That's what we were practicing Kevin Edgerton: Not to the top, just to the base camp. yeah, yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: for a lot because the walk in is arduous, let alone the climbing part. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Always. Right, right. It was it's twenty six miles from the time you land from Luca to get all the way to to base camp ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and we we landed in Camp Mandu one day, the next day we're flying up to Luca and then Luca we started our trek. we had to because we had to do ERIK LAWRENCE: wow. Kevin Edgerton: it on on the front end of our J set, we had to do the trek instead of on the No, not coming from OP. Yeah, yeah. So we had to take ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, but there's no acclimatization. You're you're going straight in. did you get a bunch of hape and AMS going on? Kevin Edgerton: We only had one guy, but we were taking whatever that w there's a pill that reduces that. I forgot what it's called. ERIK LAWRENCE: I never s never ran into that. Yeah. We we had a lot of Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, so there's a pill that you Yeah, we all we all took it, but one guy was allergic to it 'cause it had iron. and we he got up to his the night before we were gonna go up to Everest. Well we're going up to Calapatara to the peak, which we did, and then come down and then just touch base camp and get back down. Well the night before Mike was like, Hey, I he's like, I'm I need to go down. And so we sent ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: our senior Bravo, which was he was pretty pissed off that I chose him to go back down to to take Mike to make sure that he was okay. But yeah, that was ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: that was a cool experience to go to that. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'll bet. I bet some great photos from that. Holy hell. I'm jealous. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: As a mountain team guy, God bless that. We always practiced for it, but no one would ever approve it. We'd do Pacific Crest Trail getting ready and, you know, hiking hiking forever, but they're like, Yeah, no, we don't have any money. You're not go back hiking again. Go climb a rock that's free. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: You know. It was it was there was no money. But how you turned this into the eighteen alpha fitness, you know, and and you're getting to steal all that intel you got paid to do to create your own systems now. And what's what's the whole story there? Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. Answer to my own self. So like I said the the fun time for the Air Force, well I guess we could go back. So April eighth, twenty sixteen, my boss, the Lieutenant Colonel Schroeder, was killed on the line in the line of duty by a soldier. ERIK LAWRENCE: What? Kevin Edgerton: Murder suicide. A kid that just failed in doc I don't know the guy's name. I will never repeat the this motherfucker's name. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: prior Green Beret. Yes. Switched ERIK LAWRENCE: No. that's embarrassing. Kevin Edgerton: Right. Switched well, he went FBI, he wanted to go HRT, they told him no. then he went he was at Endoc trying out and when I was there when I was that when I first there wasn't a prior special operation guy over thirty that ever made it through Endoc. And then those guys knew that if you're prior special operations, the Endoc instructors just made it god awful for you. There's a couple couple ERIK LAWRENCE: okay. Kevin Edgerton: prior GBs that tried to go, none of made it. There's only one one one ERIK LAWRENCE: F yeah, it's Kevin Edgerton: marine force marine force recon guy that was like thirty four years old that went back, but that's when we switched it. It was no longer indock, it was pre-dive. Again, you know ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: what I mean? But when the old indock Pir Parasoft guys? ERIK LAWRENCE: Wasn't gonna happen. Kevin Edgerton: One guy. there's a guy right there that that's there now. I think his name is David Goggins. He's at pre-dive ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: now. He's at 52, crazy some bitch. I wouldn't do that shit. even pre-dive at 52. But he's there now trying to make it again, because he didn't make it the first time when he went to ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: indoc. Endoc was n is no was no no thank you. ERIK LAWRENCE: Huh. Well, Kevin Edgerton: So I didn't ERIK LAWRENCE: bless their hearts. Kevin Edgerton: a lot of you know what I mean, I a lot of lessons learned, you know what I mean, and then I had to go to work every day to the same location that this murder suicide happened. and that messed me up more than, you know, being downrange. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: to have to go back to 'cause downrange you you leave. I'm I don't go, you know what I mean? That that should happen. That's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: that that's there. But to go back to work to the same place where, you know, a friend of yours, he's he is a Packers fan, That that Christmas before it happened, my dad but the Veterans Day before that, my dad went to a Packers game and got a hat and a terrible, you know, a s a towel. And the hat was too big, so I gave it to him for Christmas. And I, you know, I wanted an extra towel to give to to Schroeder because he was a Packers fan as well. and but again, you know what I mean? just to go in back ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: same same location day after day after day. just weared me down and then growing from like I said from I told you before there were seventy four of us that ran the whole kitten caboodle to growing ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: into five hundred and fifty people. I used to sit at the table, you know what I mean, with the the weekly briefs. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, not now. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, I was I was like sitting way back there. And you know, how an SF dude is. It's like ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I d I didn't I didn't work my way to get to the table to to be pushed back off off the table anymore. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: And then so it it I'm new that it's writing on the wall, it's time for me to go. I started eighteen alpha fitness in twenty twenty. It started off slow, which, you know, it just it just did and I got really lucky. I'm telling you right now, I got really lucky. I at the time there was a a YouTube channel called the FNG Academy. I don't know if you ever heard of it. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: I remember watching that kid. He was funny. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, Sean Buck Rogers, and I asked him one time, I was like, Hey, you think you could you know, you know, do a shout out for 18 Alpha Fitness? And he did. And that one shout out, I mean it was it was immediate, right? I mean Yeah, it's FNG. Right. Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well that was his that was his subscriber base was the young guys trying to get intel. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: And so ERIK LAWRENCE: Perfect. Kevin Edgerton: eighteen alpha tooks takes off and you know the type of person that I am I was like, I called him back up. I was like, hey, do you mind if I kick you some dollars your way? You know what I mean? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: because this this it w you know, my first ERIK LAWRENCE: It worked. Kevin Edgerton: four or five months you know what I mean, I've had this this system running, those numbers were nowhere near what it is now. It like quadrupled or like overnight. And so I sent them, you know, I think a a significant amount of money. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Well yeah, it's worth it, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: right. And then we continued that on for a while, but he has like Last year he's stepped away from doing the FNG stuff he's doing. He's a firefighter now. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, I wonder where he went. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, he you know, found Jesus, you know, with found God and wants to be more of a family man. and then again, at the end of the day, ERIK LAWRENCE: Good. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: it people get this this line of work of, you know, selling yourself on social media gets gets kinda old after a while. I've been doing it, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: six years. It's it's a lot. And I'm a sole proprietor. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I've got somebody pointing a gun at me right now, making me do this because I despise having my face out on video, let alone yeah, I've I've always hid behind my employees, you know. Yeah, I Kevin Edgerton: Right, right, right. Yeah. So that that's a that and then you gotta sell yourself on this. I ha you know, even though I am an SF guy, I I still hate getting in front of the camera. I don't ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: mind doing these talks like this. This is easy to me. but you know what I mean the like it's like if I feel like I'm selling myself when I'm, you know, demonstrating, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, it's terrible. Kevin Edgerton: you know, but you know, it's a necessary evil in the today's world. It's ERIK LAWRENCE: I know. My editor tells me that daily. I'm like, yeah, Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, you you know what I mean? You gotta get out here. ERIK LAWRENCE: whatever, man. I gotcha. Yeah, but I think Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: this is worthwhile talk, you know. I mean and once we get, you know, you know, you're helping a lot of new guys, but we need to think about the old guys too. Because it was miserable what we had for PT, what we had for nutrition, the the the command structure. in I don't know what battalion you were at first group, but I was in second battalion, early nineties, and for a battalion we had a universal weight set, the one of those shitty ones that never work, and a set of dumbbells. For a battalion. Kevin Edgerton: Well, you would be baffled. The Thor three facility there is amazing. ERIK LAWRENCE: I went to it ten years ago and I cried. I sat down and cried. I'm like, you guys do Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. Yeah, I went. ERIK LAWRENCE: not know how fucking lucky you are. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I got to go on I gotta go on the greatest Air Force Boondaggo ever. The air f we flew up from Lackland up to Lewis to do training. Whatever. And I got to go. As a as a GS, I got ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Whatever. T D Y. Kevin Edgerton: I got to go. And I'm went and I you I'm a jiu-jitsu guy too, so I Jason Pellas host, he's he was the head jiu-jitsu guy, and I've known him since he was a purple belt. He's a black belt now. great phenomenal guy. was part of Team Rock. train trained with them. I I'm a black belt now as well 'cause I've been doing it for twenty five years now. so then you know, and then seeing the facility in there was amazing. It just, you know, it's just ERIK LAWRENCE: no, I I can't even find and the guys walking around, they look like brick shit houses. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: You know, and I'm just like, You have no idea what we used to have to do. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, the but some of it, you know, like with everything there there's a good and bad with that, you know, 'cause some of the strength coaches like program they think they're still for college football players. And you know what I mean? And it they don't understand that ERIK LAWRENCE: I can believe that, yeah. Yeah, not a military athlete. Kevin Edgerton: ours is a a year long programming that there's there's no ebs there's no off season for us. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and so it's hard for them to to program the off season with the operator. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: And you know what I mean? And that it comes all down to timing. and I don't know about when when you were active, Eric, but when I was active, my I usually was in the best shape when I was downrange because I had less ERIK LAWRENCE: of course. Kevin Edgerton: Last time, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: food was always there. I got, really good food. I didn't have to take kids here and there. I didn't have outside things to do. So I got to focus on ERIK LAWRENCE: No interruptions. Kevin Edgerton: no interruptions. So I focused on my PT. You know what I mean? And then that the you know that my stress levels would go down because that's all I did. I only focused on PT when I was downrange. And and my team hated because I used to take my road bike in a box and and put it on the pallet. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: we would do that too. On the pleasure palette. Yeah, we we'd have those big zug zug cases full of bicycles in Malaysia, you know. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, and the pleasure pile. And they Well I was the only one and my my warrant hated that I used to take my bike everywhere. ERIK LAWRENCE: we used to, yeah. Yeah, we'd go mountain biking in jungles and shit. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: it was it was amazing. But now we're old, so how do we how do we get the guys Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: to take it back on? 'Cause a lot of the guys and you know it, they quit. They they're horrible. They quit. Kevin Edgerton: yeah. And that's the thing, it's it it's the hardest thing to do is to do something regularly. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and what I do I I that I think I talked to you before we started recording was I do what's A system called functional anatomy seminars and it's FRC is what I do daily, and it's called CARS, controlled articulation rotation. So I take each joint of my body, starting with my neck, shoulder blades, elbows, wrists, hips, knees, ankles, toes, all the way down, and I take them through a full range of motion. It takes me now about eight to ten minutes a day to do that, and I make sure I do ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: that every day. again, it's one of those things like ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, I'm gonna add that that video link in of that because yeah. Yes, you did. Yeah, I'm gonna add that for sure. Yeah, and and everybody can do that, so I don't wanna hear they can't. Kevin Edgerton: yeah, I think that did send that to you, right? Yeah. So yeah, I mean right that everybody, because you don't need no weights, it's just your body taking it through a control, you know what I mean, through the whole thing. and if you're a prior soft guy and you need some help, hit me up on the DM on Instagram, and I'll do my best to help you out to get back to the ERIK LAWRENCE: you're you're gonna get tired of me asking silly shit. 'Cause I there's a lot of charlatans out there, you know, and there's Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: there's a lot of as you said, they don't know our demographic and you know, there's just guys that got replaced joints, broken backs, fused vertebrae, T B eyes out to yin yang. they're like stand on one foot, I'm like, Yeah, okay. Yeah. I'm lucky to stand on two and not fall over. So, you know, there's a lot to it. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, I I got a fake disc between C five, C six, jumping ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Sydney, Australia did me in. didn't know it at the time. I was like I said, I was I was a I was a team. I I knew ERIK LAWRENCE: no, we never do. Yeah, it takes forever to admit it. Kevin Edgerton: when it happened though, after immediately when it happened, I was a Otto Lillard, I don't I'm I don't know if you know who he is. He was our battalion commander at first group. He he's since since passed away. But we were on the JCS, yeah, JCS exercise for Charlie because we were supporting Charlie Company. And ERIK LAWRENCE: gotcha. Kevin Edgerton: we're we're the the mission was over and we're doing elevators right and ERIK LAWRENCE: Fun jumps, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I didn't need to do the second jump that day but me being a team leader and the rest of the teams going up it's like I'll get on the bird and I'm ERIK LAWRENCE: Of course. Kevin Edgerton: fine I'll I'll go out. I didn't need it and I I landed Rough and my team sergeant's coming over and I try to stand up and I went boo right back down and he's like, just just stay there. ambulant bamblands came and got me, took me to the emergency room, x rayed my lower back 'cause that's what I thought it was, and really didn't think it was my neck, right? But then about eighteen months later when I got back to Bragg, You know what I mean? I was having really, really, really bad neck pain and you know, I was going to Exos Place. I don't know if you ever heard of the Exos. Yeah. Well, they had a they had a facility in Kerry. Yeah. So they got a place yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I've been to Exos. Yeah, yeah. I did a s s six weeks there. I didn't know that. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: it was Riley Orthopedics, but the Exos was part of it. It was upstairs. And so I was going there like two to three times a week, physical therapy stuff for my knees and and for and for my neck. And, you know, the physical therapist at the time, he's like, I I I'm I don't know what's wrong with your neck. She's like, you know, you need to go get an MRI done, blah, blah, blah. He's like, I I've gone, I've done everything I possibly can to know available. Well, lo and behold, I got a MRI done. And at the time I was I took the the MRI to the Riley Hurricanes, the NHL Cairo ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: part. And I was like, Here, here's my thing. I my neck is killing me. Can you help me out? And he's like, I'm not touching your neck. I'm not, I am not touching your neck. You need to go see a neurosurgeon right now. He's like, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Gonna paralyze you. Kevin Edgerton: I need to s you need to go see a neurosurgeon. And so I called my buddy Steve, which was he was a PA at the time. Was that as a matter of fact, he was the commander at the Delta compound. And he he put in my my work up and forty-eight hours later, well, I think seventy two hours later, I was at Walter they they sent me straight up to Walter Reed from Bragg to go see. The ERIK LAWRENCE: you're kidding. Kevin Edgerton: neural surgeon. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, we are hard headed, man. I I had a a crushed vertebrae for months before I said, Hey, I need to go to the doctor. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: th they were standing me up against the vehicles, putting all my kid on me. We'd go do a hit, they'd bring me back out, lean me against a vehicle, pull my kid off of me, and lay me in the truck. Yeah, I was like, we were knuckleheads on injuries. Because you know what happens if you admit it. Kevin Edgerton: Done you're done. You're done. That's it. That's it. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, you're you're a B team or worse. Yeah, and you're like, I'd rather die out here. Kevin Edgerton: So I was not, so I was a 42 years old team leader at the time when my injury ERIK LAWRENCE: wow. Kevin Edgerton: happened in Sydney. I was older than my battalion commander. ERIK LAWRENCE: I guarantee it, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: and I told Otto, I I you know what I mean, I I I know I had a couple of tears in my eyes, but I was like, I can't I can't operate at the level that I feel comfortable to lead these ERIK LAWRENCE: No. Kevin Edgerton: men. And he was like, Man, I really appreciate that, Kevin. He's like, Don't worry, I got you. I'm gonna take care of you, you know. We'll we'll we'll we'll you're gonna make you know what I mean? We'll work we'll work it out. You know what I'm saying? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I knew that right there, that was it for my you know what I mean, that was it for me. yeah. No ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, you're done. No more rucksack. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: more rucksack and no more jumping out of planes, no more being the SF cool guy with sunglasses in my hands in my pocket. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, if you're out in Oakie, you your bot chain and your Tevas, And I saw him in Iraq dressed that way. I'm like, son, you probably need to change your attire. I said, We're we're in northern Iraq, son. We're we're not in we're not on a J set here. And he's like, What do you mean? I'm like Kevin Edgerton: We're not lappery. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah, they had just switched out with Tenth Group and I'm like, Hey, you y we gotta talk, bud. This this Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: isn't gonna work. I'm like, We're we're in a war here. So but yeah, it was I was like and they and they were like, Hey, aren't you an old first root guy? I'm like, Yeah, I'll go talk to I'm like, We're we're not on a J set. Let's let's change our MO. They're like, we go out the gate this way every time and we get shot at I'm like Kevin Edgerton: 'Cause you're coming in the gate the same way every time. ERIK LAWRENCE: let me help you here. But, you know, we're digressing, but I I wanna help the old vets, you know. The young Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: guys, they've they've got programs now. But I've got old Kevin Edgerton: they got ERIK LAWRENCE: team sergeants that only have one real joint left. You know. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: The th they're just a wreck. And Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, my my my team sergeant my last team sergeant didn't like me too well because He wanted to do push-up, sit-ups, and run every day. And I was like, bro, I'm I am past that. I am like I said, I was I'm older than you. Yeah. Well, I was like, I'm older ERIK LAWRENCE: Pff no. Yeah. That's how it was. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: than you. I'm not doing your dumb shit. you know, we got this strength coach that just got here. I'm gonna be working out with him. Fridays is the long run. That's my long run day. I'll run with you guys on Fridays, but I'll be ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I'll be with Mike, our strength coach, working out the right way. Cause that's what he's here for. too. You ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: know what I mean? Until the old team sergeants get on board with the program, you know, guys are still gonna get injured. That's the only bad thing about it. Because, you know, SF, you know how it ERIK LAWRENCE: gosh, yeah. Yeah, I had one say it it Kevin Edgerton: is? Everybody's an expert at fitness because this is how I did it. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Just ask yeah. And they go, every day's a push up day, and I'm like, What? Excuse me? I'm like, You actually know nothing about fitness, you know? But you know, that's the old guys that are brook dicks now. You know, and I see all the time, I'm like, Hey, at least start the mobility, at least start supplementation, at least you know, and and the mind too, you know, I mean down I'm down on psychedelics. I've seen them do miraculous work on the nervous system. And our nervous systems are a a wreck. They totally are. You know, so you get the mind muscle connection, mind body connection. You gotta reduce all that. Kevin Edgerton: And so I do wanna put a plug in here for some the non-profit organizations out there that help out a lot. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, of course. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: so last this last June, so you know, had that neck surgery, got a fake disc. I play tennis now. and so my right side was very, very jacked up. And so reached out, I mean for a while, reached out to to get stem cells done. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Semp some stem cells therapy and it's if you've looked that up yet, if you're you know got aching pain somewhere and try a stem cell that works, takes a while for it to actually take an effect. It took me like six weeks for it to my pain to reduce down to nothing, which is nothing right now. Yeah. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Really? that's amazing. I I've heard that but I've not seen a lot of examples of it. Or or the the new kicks, the peptides and all that. obviously. I don't know enough. Kevin Edgerton: You're right. Yeah, the I'm I'm I'm on the I've tried all the I tried a PBC one five seven. It doesn't really do the or an ad plus and stuff like that. I to me it didn't do shit. Not nothing like what the st the stem cells done. yeah, really. But ERIK LAWRENCE: Really? Yeah. Well that makes sense so. Kevin Edgerton: yeah, well it's it's a significant amount of money too. It's not cheap. I think it was six or eight K for Two injections, well, one injection and one for the whole body. Yes. Well, and so ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, if it worked, yes, it's okay. Kevin Edgerton: this is where the you do the shout-out to the special forces trust. You send in the doctor's recommendation and that you need this because prior injuries for active duty service, and within three hours they came back and was like, We got you covered. So ERIK LAWRENCE: that's beautiful. Yeah, I always wonder about the the big organizations on how effec efficient and or effective they are. So that's great to hear. Kevin Edgerton: So that one, all right. And I sent it off to the Special Forces Foundation as well. The one guy No, ERIK LAWRENCE: G B foundation or Kevin Edgerton: not the GB Foundation. So the Fisher Forces Trust and then Special Forces Foundation. There's all right. ERIK LAWRENCE: I get all confused. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, then then the Greenbury Foundation. Greenbury Foundation We'll put that over here. That's too big now, in my opinion. The other ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I've heard. Kevin Edgerton: two, like I said, the one came back and said, We got you covered, but the first the Special Forces Foundation came back, was like, Hey, our money person isn't here right now. I can't give you a definitive yes or no. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Kevin Edgerton: but you know what I mean, and that was within an hour, hour and a half. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. really? Wow. Kevin Edgerton: I got a call. Yes, yes, yes. And then the Special Forces Trust came and b boom, we're paying for it. So I called the f the Special Forces Foundation back was like, Hey, trust says they're gonna cover it. They're like, Well, let us know if you need anything else and I like, Well, what about travel? They're like, We got you covered on the travel part 'cause it was ERIK LAWRENCE: Where'd you have to go to do it? Kevin Edgerton: Just Houston, it's a three and a half hour drive. ERIK LAWRENCE: okay. Kevin Edgerton: but for the hot I had you have to stay in the vicinity for forty-eight hours just in case, you know, infection or something like that. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: so they they're like, Well put you know, get just get the hotel send us the thing. So they pay for that. so both organizations help. Right, exactly. But people don't people don't ERIK LAWRENCE: that's beautiful. Well that's what those organizations are for. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: realize that and people don't ask either. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, no, that's true. I I'll I'll get a hold of those and see if they'll do interviews to explain what they actually do for the regiment or any b any of the guys. Kevin Edgerton: And then the one other organization that I've had great, you know what I mean, is the Operation Healing Forces. ERIK LAWRENCE: Holding. Kevin Edgerton: So they they'll they've helped out plenty plenty of guys that I know that are in first group. so the I've got a Katsu machine. I don't know if you know what a Catsu is a blood flow restriction cuffs that restrict Yeah. So you know what I mean? It's for recovery, for ERIK LAWRENCE: No, I've seen that. yeah, I've heard that works well. Yep. Kevin Edgerton: pa aches and pains where you know you're just isometrically loading with it just cuts off the blood circulation and it tricks your brain into to thinking that there's a injury there, so it's sending all the H G H your all the good stuff that you need and then it releases and that just rushes into to your system Really good stuff. They paid for one of those devices for me with, you just call I sent in a request. there's, you know, they sent you can send in a request for you know what I mean? If you like if you need a coat tub or a sauna for ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: pain management and stuff like that. so really there's some really great organizations out there, guys, for you older guys. the the hardest thing for you guys to do is I think is just the man up and ask. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, well that's the hardest part and you know that. Th damn there's some hard headed Kevin Edgerton: That's what I'm saying. It's the hardest part for people don't like to ask. I I I'm gonna I'm ERIK LAWRENCE: people. Kevin Edgerton: well that's just probably the same ones that probably didn't go to on to on sick call either ever. You know. ERIK LAWRENCE: no. I was I had Joe Vega on for an interview and he's sixty eight years old and he's still lifting like houses. And he he brought up the point, our medical records are the thinnest because we never snivelled about it, went and got or we tore it out and threw away. And that's ours should be the thickest packets that the VA or any doctor's ever seen. but we're bad about that. Now on non soft guys, my buddy Randy Couture has a foundation, the GI Foundation. He does a great a great amount for any any service member for such things too. So and we you know, we're kind of spoiled and soft, you know, where we've got a lot of foundations. We got a lot of people that are that are pretty smart on how to organize stuff and to get things paid for. but I try to be agnostic about that and try to, help everybody I can. you know, 'cause if you get you're you're a combat engineer and you get blasted with some T B I, you know, you don't have to be a soft guy to have T BIs. So kinda harp on that too. Kevin Edgerton: I I go to Randy Couture's gym twice a twice a year to is it really? I go to ERIK LAWRENCE: really? Yeah, he's right here. He's in the other room. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: to Sean, it's elite God dog. He's a soft tissue expert and Cairo guy. I go the I fly in just for him to work on my my neck and and and my shoulder. Yeah, I don't even yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: really? Yeah. Well, there's good talent out there and you gotta remember who they are and you gotta support Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. Right. Elite OSM is what it's called. That's where the Dr. Bo Hightower, he owns the one at Albuquerque. It's you know, right by where the PJ schoolhouse is at. And then he's got a satellite in in one in Florida and one in Vegas. And I go to Vegas since I go to Vegas a lot, I go see Sean at Elite OSM and soft the soft tissue work that they do is like second to nine. Yes. ERIK LAWRENCE: Really? Yeah, well that's important. I've had a lot of that done through the years and it really fixed some old stuff, 'cause you got scarring, you got everything going on and Kevin Edgerton: Are you in Vegas then? ERIK LAWRENCE: No, no, we're we're out in Flagstaff right now. Kevin Edgerton: okay. ERIK LAWRENCE: he he's he gave the gym to his son. Kevin Edgerton: did he really? ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, so his son runs the gym now, so we're not there very often and we're getting old, so Kevin Edgerton: Okay. Cool. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, well if you ever man go to the gym and just tell you tell Brandy to say tell Sean to d give you you do an hour work on you, you come out of there like, my God ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, well, we need it. we're s we're still working out, but not not to the retarded extent that Kevin Edgerton: Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: we used to, But yeah, that's great to hear. it's it's always such a small world too. Yeah, I don't care Kevin Edgerton: Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: what anybody says. what what just parting shots do you have for guys that they're probably not doing any PT. They're probably not this is all like, I don't wanna do this stuff, but you really have to you have the responsibility to do that. And nobody should be wiping Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, so yeah, you got ERIK LAWRENCE: your ass. Kevin Edgerton: you you owe it to yourself and what I what I think I tell people is I wanna be able to enjoy my time with my grandkids. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: You know what I mean? I wanna be able to I'm gonna still move. And I said, I I play tennis now. I can't I'm not a jujits big on jujitsu because I've been hurt. I've got my peck torn, my neck hurts. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: so I play tennis and keeps me active, keeps me engaged. my mom has all timers. So that the hand-eye coordination with tennis is what I've read is that it helps reduce that ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: risk exponentially. So just get out and do something, whether you're gonna even play pickleball. There's a new sport, you don't even have to run as much as tennis. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Kevin Edgerton: But that thing is ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: huge as well. But before you do that, make sure that you are working out just a little bit, and all you need is body weight movements. You don't need to be lifting heavy stuff. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: Nobody here needs to be an operator anymore once you're over 50. Just get out and move, man. That's the biggest key. Motion is lotion. And my what I say is mobility is the ERIK LAWRENCE: True. Kevin Edgerton: longevity of life. The more mobile you are, the better they better. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah, I was I was doing a kimchi squat. How many people can't even do a kimchi squat, you know? I mean I do it every day just so I can do it, you know? And it does lessen the known injuries, you know. I'm really excited to start doing the the the cars that you mentioned, 'cause it makes total sense. You know, it's but you you can't think of it yourself. Kevin Edgerton: Just take take every yeah, take every joint through a full range of motion every day. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Except for when you're doing your disability assessment, you know. Kevin Edgerton: Yeah, then you wanna be like ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, the guys they always push past the pain point, you know, and it's like, No, you're not winning. You know, it hurt when you started moving actually. Kevin Edgerton: You're right, no, you're not Right, right. ERIK LAWRENCE: You know, and guys are touching your toes and and crying. I'm like, We are our own worst enemy on that stuff. But man, I I appreciate the info and and I don't know, let's I'd like to talk to you again once I've absorbed a lot of this Kevin Edgerton: Okay. ERIK LAWRENCE: and and see if we can just do some old man centric protocol, you know, something that we could whip together and you know, if we lead through it, they might do it. You know? Yep, totally. Kevin Edgerton: Right. That's why I sent that video. Because I'm I tell you I tell you how to do it. You know what I mean? It takes me eighteen minutes ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: to explain and I I got it down so much, you know what I mean? 'Cause I do it so much that it only takes me eight eight to ten minutes to do it. Depends on how many Sometimes I'll do three, but I do five at home myself, but it's still again it only takes me ten minutes to do five rotations each direction. Nothing. ERIK LAWRENCE: wow. Yeah, and and th they might get to hand. I don't know. You know, sometimes you you can't help everybody, but I I I have to try and Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. Right. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: appreciate the time and and the expertise. I mean you you got a great great backstory there. even though you ended up as an alpha, you know, I'll I'll offset that because you were in echo. So yeah, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: No, I appreciate I appreciate it. ERIK LAWRENCE: Did you have to do code back then or do were you after code? Okay. Okay. Just checking. we had eighteen eighteen baby. I'm like Kevin Edgerton: yeah, I do I know motherfucking boards code. I failed that shit. So Yeah. Thirteen thirteen buddy. Good. And I think three classes later they ended it. I was like, you mother. And they were telling us ERIK LAWRENCE: But that's how I can Kevin Edgerton: we were supposed to get extra like language pay for it. Our guy, our instructor ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: was like, Yeah, you guys are gonna get like an a a a language pay because it's you know it's that hard. And we never got that shit. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, I got a college credit for it because they considered it a foreign language. I'm like, Kevin Edgerton: That's great. ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, I did nothing with it. I I But Kevin Edgerton: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: that's how I I rate echoes now. It's like before code or after code, you know? Are you an IT guy? Or are you Kevin Edgerton: I was Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: humping a 74 or a 70 and tapping out code? You know? Yeah, exactly. G seventy-six. Kevin Edgerton: Cranking out batteries, buddy. ERIK LAWRENCE: That's why we had lieutenants to carry that sucker. Kevin Edgerton: That's Max Gain. I don't know if you guys did you do Max Gain to shoot do your shot from Oklahoma back to Bragg? my god. It rained. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. I still do that now and my radio is this big. It's five watt. Kevin Edgerton: I'm sure. ERIK LAWRENCE: It runs off a little charger. The technology is insane in HF now. Yeah, I'm shooting data Kevin Edgerton: I bet it is. ERIK LAWRENCE: off a hundred dollar HF radio. Yeah, instead of a, you know, twenty five pound PRC seventy with the fucking batteries. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: With the with the fucking batteries, just the batteries are the w worst, man. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, yeah, never again. Well thanks. Appreciate it. Keep in touch. And Kevin Edgerton: All right. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'll annoy you. I I want some more info. Kevin Edgerton: All right, just let me know when you when you're posting this thing out so I could I need to rip it and ERIK LAWRENCE: of course, yeah. Kevin Edgerton: pull it off 'cause I got I got an AI guy that's gonna take all of my old ones and start pulling stuff, you know what I mean, for it the for the gram. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well I can I can connect your guy with my guy and they can they can geek out immensely. Kevin Edgerton: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, so we're not touching that. No. We'll no we'll task that out. We're we're we're SF guys, buddy. We know how to delegate, you know. To the experts. Yeah. Kevin Edgerton: I'm not yeah, exactly. I There you go. To the experts, there you go. ERIK LAWRENCE: Okay, we'll tie it off. Thanks ya. Kevin Edgerton: All right, but