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Learning to Live Consciously with Katherine Jansen-Byrkit · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Al Roxanne.
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  Thanks for tuning in again to Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:41
  So today, I have a a special guest, Catherine Jensen, and she is, someone that has a a, I
• 0:51
  would say, quite similar background to me in some sense.
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  She's an author.
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  She also speaks.
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  She educates, and she's a licensed professional counselor.
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  With over 15 years of clinical experience.
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  She, has a holistic approach when she works with individuals to focus on personal growth,
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  relationship transformation and embodied work through wakefulness as part of one spiritual
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  path.
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  So welcome, Catherine.
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  Thank you, Roxanne.
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  It's lovely to be with you.
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  So I know when you and I chatted, a little while back, we talked a little bit about people
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  like you and I.
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  We pick these fields and we go into them and I would say based on lots of different reasons,
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  we kind of adopt the element of introspection or maybe, you know, reflecting when we deal
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  with people.
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  And I'm I'm not sure that the average person kind of probably does that very often.
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  Yeah.
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  I I would agree.
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  I would agree.
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  That's why, in the first aspect, I I worked with an export in my book of on wakefulness was
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  relationship to self, and a piece of that is self awareness, just becoming more self aware
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  is transformational for so many people.
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  They've kind of just been on autopilot.
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  So that reflected that reflectiveness, is so important and so helpful on on that path of
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  evolving and in our most conscious self.
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  For sure.
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  So let's let's talk a little bit about did you did you always want to do this kind of work?
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  Was it a was it a passion of yours that you followed, or how did you end up doing this kind
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  of work?
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  Well, it was a quite a quite a journey because, it really in a way started with trauma.
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  My dad he's passed now, but he was a therapist, but that was not my original calling.
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  It was actually to be an attorney.
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  But through the divorce in a way that he left, although he and I repaired greatly, the damage
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  that had been done, I kind of imploded at sixteen years old.
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  So I attempted suicide, thankfully, obviously, did not complete that and and left high school
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  moved to San Francisco, but a piece of my journey was food addiction.
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  And so once I realized okay.
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  I wanna come back to Oregon where I was from.
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  San Francisco was lovely and really I did, I, I kind of got out of Jot Dodge and I started to
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  heal.
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  On the way to become an attorney, you can get a bachelor's degree in anything.
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  So I'm like, well, I really wanna reclaim my body and my health.
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  I'd always been healthy before before what had happened.
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  You know, my pain was kind of manifested in, again, in food addiction, so I was quite heavy.
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  And so as I went down that road, health just was so important to me.
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  It became my career and then went further to become a master's degree in public health, and
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  I worked in that field for, itself almost 20 years, 15 to 20 years.
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  So it was at 39, actually, when I was at my personal retreat, that I kinda got the call
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  from the universe, be a therapist.
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  And so I was like, woah, that involves a whole another master's degree, and and I already have
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  benefits.
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  And I'm raising children, and it wasn't convenient.
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  But it's been incredible.
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  So I was very much in love with public health, but it was time to do something different.
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  And this this really came through and my partner was great about it.
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  And now I've been in private practice the whole time, and I've written this book and It's
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  incredibly fulfilling.
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  So I I think your work feels the same to you.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  And I, probably took a different path than you.
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  I started at 21.
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  I got into psychotherapy at 21, because, you know, when I went to school, when I I grew up
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  in Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean, you know, I saw some, you know, dysfunction with my
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  parents' marriage and what I and I remember thinking there's nobody to, you know, to talk
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  to, back then.
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  And I remember kind of just being able to connect at a really young age.
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  And but in in connecting, I could also offer a space for others that I would speak to.
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  And and I kinda thought maybe, you know, I don't wanna become a doctor, a lawyer, an
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  engineer, or a teacher.
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  Maybe there's there's something I could do.
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  Through talking, and that's kinda I I think at about age age twelve or 11 or 12, I decided I I
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  wanted to help.
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  And he kind of took that path.
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  You know, it just went into school quite young and and, and then got into the field.
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  My very first job was uh-uh responding to trauma, victims of crime at 21.
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  And now I think back, you know, what what did I know, at that at that point.
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  Right?
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  And, you know, have loved it and been able to do lots of different things in the field since.
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  So let's let's talk about let's pick up on that whole concept of that authentic self.
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  You know, you know, the talk a lot about that and about awareness and and really, you know,
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  spending time that time in that internal space.
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  I would say that you know, in the last year and a bit, the world has been forced to become more
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  conscious.
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  And what you're seeing with people that you deal with and how are they dealing with?
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  I'm I'm gonna say it's almost like a beckoning to consciousness or, or recognizing that maybe
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  there are unconsciousness is getting in their way.
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  What have you been seeing with the people that you've been dealing with?
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  Well, I think for many people, COVID, it, as it was incredibly frightening, if not, the
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  hardship of getting ill or losing a family member was very much a wake up call.
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  And wake up calls can go a lot of different directions.
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  Wake of calls can be, I'm really in an unhealthy relationship and it's time to go.
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  A wake of call can be, I don't I want to know I'm I have immunity, or a strong immune system,
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  so I'm gonna take different care of my body even though I can't be as active because I
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  can't go to the gym.
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  So I've been saying to my clients throughout the year, you know, we don't have to get back
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  on all the horses, just because life will go back to what we experienced as a normal, we've
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  changed.
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  Something is different, and that's a good thing.
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  And, again, it comes with heart and I wanna be so respectful of of that.
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  Even just the social justice stuff that happened in the middle of all of that with the
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  trial happening in the states for George Floyd today.
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  I believe it starts.
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  And realizing, between, you know, the toxicity of individualism and our loss of true community
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  and in a way tribe.
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  And then with COVID loss of try because I can't see my people.
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  I can't touch my people.
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  That excites me to think about some of these things actually, and there are deeper themes
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  about how important we are to one another.
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  You know, we know that for babies, babies can be impacted in terms of touch and love and
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  attachment failure to thrive, but we are all that.
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  So to me, I, I just am coaching and counseling clients to really listen to that inner voice,
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  the the inner voice within.
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  And again, who you are in 2021 now might be a different authentic you than, a year ago, with
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  all that you've experienced.
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  So what do you find?
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  You know, what I when I've been coaching people, I've the people have massive anxiety
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  and they're also having a lot of issues sleeping.
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  Those would seem to be the 2 main pervasive things Is that something that you're also kind
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  of having people, Yes.
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  Present way?
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  Okay.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  And I seem to draw the I I professionally personally have no judgment for those that, are
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  helped by medication, especially when you combine therapy, but, and I seem to draw a lot
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  of clients that are trying to really walk the walk on their own.
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  So, you know, they're they don't wanna take a sleeping pill at night, and they are very
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  anxious and a few deep breaths doesn't always do the trick.
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  You know, they practice mindfulness.
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  They've done a little meditation.
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  So, That's another piece in my book, and it was so important.
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  That's the second chapter of my book is freedom from the mind because anxiety is so driven by
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  an anxious mind and thoughts we believe and rabbit holes we go down.
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  So that's a tool that I really work with right away even if somebody doesn't present with
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  anxiety to make sure they have a sense of how to work with that part of their humanity so
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  that I am not at the mercy of my thinking, with all the wellness of that.
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  So, you know, sometimes it's inner dialogue kinds of work.
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  Sometimes it's about being honest about lifestyle in terms of the contribution that can
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  make to overall health, which which includes sleep and, and less anxiety.
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  I, I love that you did said that in the intro.
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  I really tried to pull together a holistic kind of approach to wellness.
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  And so I think body practices are hugely important and continue with anxiety.
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  So let's let's talk a little bit about that because I, you know, when I was scot into the
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  field years and years ago, the concept of the semantic, which is basically for people that
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  may not understand that concept, something that we live with and deal with and teach people all
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  the time, but the somatic back in, you know, goodness in 90 in the 19 eighties I think maybe
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  maybe in certain western parts of the war, I mean, eastern parts, philosophies, western
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  parts of maybe the US, we're more an alignment with that.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  And, you know, and we've come along so much, and and I know you and I talked a little bit
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  and, you know, that I done, EMDR, which is a body therapy, you know, for years years years,
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  And then, you know, you kinda look at what's happened, you know, with people not sleeping,
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  not being aware.
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  Although, I think in 2020, my sense is that it's almost like if you had some bad habits, it
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  became a bit more in that I could probably kinda get away with it, but being locked in,
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  being worried about people dying, being worried about you know, what really is happening in the
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  world.
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  Like you said, all the civil unrest.
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  That's a lot for the average person.
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  All of us.
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  Like, I mean, me included.
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  I I would say to people, if you if you if anybody tells you, you're, you know, you're not
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  stressed or anxious in 2020, I'm gonna say, do you pulse.
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  Because we all will go through heightened levels.
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  But let's talk a little bit about what you do with your body.
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  Right?
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  Because, like, to your point, like, people say, oh, I'm anxious, and we will say, oh, take some
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  breaths or go, you know, do little things, and we know that anxiety is a whole to to recover
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  from anxiety.
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  There are so many variables that you have to get in to.
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  Just talk a little bit about the body and how that plays through the mind.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, so kind of the the body find it follows wherever the mind goes.
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  So just to reiterate, we want to start with, can I be in this moment?
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  Can I not follow every thought and believe it?
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  And that will that will start to settle the nervous system, but then body practices and
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  deeper body practices.
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  Like you say, a few breaths maybe did it in 2018 or 2050.
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  You know, but there there's a whole another level, and I would even say the politics last
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  year were another thing.
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  And then the Pacific Northwest, we had wildfires It was like one thing.
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  It was a pylon, a pylon.
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  And it was like, well, okay.
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  So you are resilient.
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  And we have to dig deep and kind of find a new threshold.
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  And so these the tools in the wheelhouse to deal with how the the human system is absorbing
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  all of that because even if we tell ourselves, it's okay.
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  There's a level of angst because of the uncertainty, you know, we were gonna just
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  flatten a curve for 2 weeks.
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  And then it was just gonna be till June, and then it just snowballed.
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  And so that, I what I also teach is just appreciating there as much as you can establish
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  a sense of safety and kind of have that conversation with your body, actually, about
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  that that you can feel scared and we don't know if we're gonna get COVID, but right now, and in
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  this moment, We are safe.
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  I think much deeper states of that were necessary for people to find.
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  And so, if you've never had know, conversation with your body.
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  That's a great place to start.
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  If you don't know how to kind of do some soothing exercises, whether it's yoga, whether
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  it is longer meditation and deeper breathing and breath work, even massage, just having,
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  body work done is a way to just kind of think about your system as a whole system that needs
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  needs to be soothed.
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  That concept, I mean, I know you and I know what that means, but that's that's kinda
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  dissect that a little bit more for people because I often say, you know, to people, you
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  know, when we were young, you know, you have that warm fuzzy blanket that you kind of
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  probably took around as a child.
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  But as adults, we're kinda like, we don't wanna kinda dialogue about that kind of stuff.
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  Right?
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  It's kinda like we're supposed to keep it hidden, but I would say that Yeah.
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  This has been brought to the light that much more, you know, in the last little while.
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  So, like, what's what's your routines?
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  You know, a lot of businesses, you know, executives talk about rituals and stuff like
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  that, but it's so much deeper in that I know for myself, Catherine, for instance, I walked,
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  through the snow sometimes for an hour a half a day, sometimes just because I was stuck in my
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  house and and then doing the kind of work that we did and, a friend of mine and I would walk
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  sometimes upwards of 3 to 5 times a, a week.
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  Yeah.
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  And, you know, she said to me the other day, and I agreed with her.
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  Said, you know, I think we protected our mental health really, really well due to this time.
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  And, you know, I I walked alone, but I also walked with her, which was a difference.
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  And, you know, and and that was something.
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  And I want, I mean, I walked and I had never walked in such a way that I got clarity even
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  when I didn't even think I was looking for clarity.
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  Yeah.
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  I hear you.
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  You know, there's some research and I can't quote it.
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  I apologize.
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  But, the couples actually do better if they walk and talk versus they just sit down to
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  process something.
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  There's just kind of an aside I'm thinking of.
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  But, the monotony, the lack of mobility, and the profound aloneness those things.
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  So even I I was thinking of this when you were a young therapist at 21, you might not have
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  known a lot about how to really work with that level of trauma.
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  But what you did Roxanne was provide company.
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  And I think what I have over the years of my clinical practice, as much as in my personal
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  life, but it's especially seeing the power of undoing aloneness.
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  Rather than analytics and problem solving and, of course, we can't fix COVID.
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  We had to deal with COVID.
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  So there wasn't a problem we could fix.
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  We had no control, but undoing aloneness So you were with a friend, some of those times.
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  That's huge for our mental health.
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  Again, that sense of getting out of this individualism that is so, unhelpful.
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  But then I was saying to people, mix it up, move your body.
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  You can't fly anywhere.
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  You're not going someplace, but just go to a different room for your next Zoom call.
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  Have a different don't do taco Tuesdays or put something dick different in them this week to
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  spice it up.
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  You know, it was it's just so long to be in what, you know, the research would say just as,
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  like forced isolation.
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  They've done research on it, you know, with astronauts and other other groups.
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  And people go a little very wild toward the end.
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  It's called 3rd quarter restlessness.
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  And so just working with our own system, as it sounds like you did and kind of seeing what you
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  can do because there was so much loss in what we couldn't do.
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  And, again, no endpoints So we couldn't keep waiting for it to maybe turn around next month
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  or, you know, and hope we didn't get a spike.
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  Yeah.
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  I think people understand their mental health you know, I was saying on podcasts a year ago,
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  yes, we need to prevent a public health crisis, but we also need to prevent a mental health
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  crisis.
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  I absolutely agree.
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  And, you know, what I've I've seen is that, you know, situations that people are struggling
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  with be for COVID, if they didn't really come to terms with it and and really almost sit
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  within on a deep, deep level.
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  Those behaviors have gotten, unfortunately gone in the wrong directions where the coping
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  strategies have gotten more defective or or dysfunctional.
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  Exactly.
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  Yeah.
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  There's, you know, the suicide rate is up as you will know or may have talked about on your
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  show, but just the low people have gained weight.
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  They were eating.
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  They weren't moving.
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  The alcohol, alcohol use and abuse has gone up.
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  And so, it's a time to kind of shake off, those coping strategies and, and again, maybe use
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  this time as a return to normal, kind of doubling down maybe on the commitment to ones
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  health, mental health, and and physical health, as we go back into having a lot of choices.
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  But, yeah, they it's COVID lifted, you know, the veils lifted.
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  You just we saw really hard stuff.
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  We saw amazing stuff.
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  It was kind of, there was nowhere else turned because like you said, it was kind of that
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  deeper quieting that one had to do, because of just, how how still life was.
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  Right.
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  And even if you try to escape, the reality is, you know, you can't you can't run from
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  yourself, especially when physically.
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  I don't care if you lived in a mansion or if you lived in, you know, a two by four room, you
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  for the first five time, I think a lot of people were racking the diversions, which
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  there's a lot of healthy diversions as well.
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  You know, we couldn't use that to to get some of the benefits that we used to in the past.
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  That's right.
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  Yeah.
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  I I think, it's, again, a relationship.
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  I like to say these words.
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  Who are you and is your life, your body, and your relationships are all of those a
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  reflection of who you are.
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  So if I am self loving, then what I put into my body is loving.
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  And I exercise, but I don't exercise.
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  And if I'm stressed, maybe that bath or the walk or a call to a friend versus a beer or a
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  glass of wine or vegging out on too too much screen time.
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  Like, it it it almost it has forced so many people to have to face.
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  Like you said, they're low hanging fruit.
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  These were not great habits.
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  But but they they were more in moderation in until this last year.
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  So, again, that's a good thing because it's like, really facing, you know, not that many
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  people feel like their life is soon to be over, but in a way we're a long borrowed time.
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  So both for longevity and vitality sake, what is your relationship to, that part of your
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  life?
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  How you take care of yourself?
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  Or don't.
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  Yeah.
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  So let's talk about the book and the concepts and I'm gonna assume that this book would have,
• 21:49
  you know, would have been valuable to a lot of people because I think, you know, a lot of
• 21:55
  people are looking for They're looking for a deeper, deeper connection to themselves and to
• 22:01
  the world and and you you know, like meeting on purpose, I think, is been brought.
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  I know in my life, it's been brought me more to thinking about, okay, I know why I'm here.
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  I know what I've done.
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  I know what I love, but what what now?
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  Yeah.
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  Exactly.
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  Well, I slip the book into 2 parts, the inner world and the outer world.
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  And I really believe in my own journey and then very much my practice change comes from the
• 22:28
  inside out.
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  So I defined the sense of self is is not the ego self, not just the individual human self.
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  We are human.
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  But something more.
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  And I left it just as a kind of a state of presence connection to something bigger outside
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  of me some people would call that god.
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  Other people would not call that god.
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  I really steered away from that because that wasn't really the point.
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  I think we all can have that sense of what sources us is us that, like, you know, this
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  incredible, powerful energy that that we are, that animates this human body of you and I, for
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  example.
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  So there's so many people in the when they think about a relationship to self It's a very
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  dangerous, very negative, very critical.
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  So my first foundation of the book is establishing who am I?
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  I'm something I am not just my individual self, but connected to something larger.
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  And it includes my intrinsic worth, which is a huge piece of my clinical practice.
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  Many people don't really embody intrinsic worth and intrinsic belonging.
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  So I had to set the tone of the book of who is this river that is Catherine moving toward this
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  ocean, which is the vastness that is this source of life room.
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  And then I went to the mind, the body, mindfulness, embracing death and dying.
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  And then in the outer part, relationships, finding your way into trouble world.
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  I believe we're connected to nature, and we're part of nature.
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  So I actually have an aspect on nature.
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  And then for those that don't have an assigned religion, but they really identify a spiritual,
• 24:10
  just some ideas about finding one's own spiritual path.
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  But what I did Roxanne is I put in practices because a lot of these ideas are great ideas,
• 24:19
  and I'm not the first to present them.
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  But how do you go from not having intrinsic worth to having it?
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  We have to change our brain.
• 24:27
  That's neural pathway work.
• 24:28
  So I would have an idea in a section.
• 24:31
  I would have practices to start to manifest that in one's life, and then I would have an
• 24:36
  inspiring story from the field.
• 24:38
  So Most of them weren't me.
• 24:39
  I have a few of my stories.
• 24:42
  Many of my clients, of course, with their permission and not their real names.
• 24:45
  A few of my children are in the book.
• 24:47
  Because I felt like I needed to say this is real.
• 24:50
  Actually, somebody really is doing this.
• 24:53
  Like, I have a client who, was diagnosed with bipolar, and that used to be his only
• 24:57
  definition of himself.
• 24:59
  And in this section, it's called path versus pathology.
• 25:02
  He still takes medication, although a lot less.
• 25:06
  But this was a way to wake up to this is this got me to therapy and has been part of my path.
• 25:12
  But but a very different kind of way to to hold it as as his.
• 25:17
  So that's a very long description of the
• 25:20
  book.
• 25:20
  No.
• 25:21
  But it's it's sounds fantastic because I would think that, you know, because I like, with all
• 25:28
  of us, like, for instance, I'm I'm using my walk again, but I Remember what I would go to
• 25:32
  my on my walks, the first 45 minutes, nothing would kick in when I was on my own.
• 25:37
  But the latter part of my walk, I would, you know, so I would maybe be reflecting on
• 25:45
  something, maybe.
• 25:46
  Right?
• 25:46
  And then I would get a voice, a deep down I I I was like, okay.
• 25:51
  Is this me?
• 25:52
  Is this me?
• 25:53
  Yeah.
• 25:54
  And then I I would get these messages that would say, hey.
• 25:58
  Whatever, you know, I was thinking about maybe you should think about this, or have you
• 26:03
  considered this?
• 26:04
  And I'm like, And then I'd be like and I'd be telling my sister after.
• 26:09
  And she goes, okay.
• 26:09
  You're okay.
• 26:10
  I'm like, I'm fine.
• 26:11
  But then and then I realized that it was basically messages that were coming from my
• 26:15
  bigger space with it from wherever, and I can formulate after, not when I was walking, but
• 26:22
  after I came back and maybe I kinda thought about it after.
• 26:25
  I'm like, wow.
• 26:27
  This is this is something that maybe not consciously been recognizing that I've been
• 26:32
  thinking but it's maybe something that's been in my space.
• 26:36
  And, you know, and I was trying to capture it.
• 26:38
  This is me now because I'm like, okay.
• 26:40
  I like that.
• 26:40
  But guess what?
• 26:41
  It wouldn't come what I wanted it to come.
• 26:43
  Right.
• 26:44
  Well, see, what I what I'm hearing that I love is the sense of emergence.
• 26:48
  So something came from deep within or beyond or both, however, we wanna language that that
• 26:54
  wasn't your mind trying to problem solve.
• 26:57
  Solve and analyze and and think your way there.
• 27:01
  And so there was movement.
• 27:03
  There was some time.
• 27:05
  You didn't try to have this happen in 7 minutes.
• 27:07
  It was even after 45.
• 27:09
  There was a patience in that, and then it arose.
• 27:12
  And that is how truth, that is how our own inner wisdom, that is how our own inner
• 27:17
  guidance happens.
• 27:19
  And so I really love that you're sharing that.
• 27:23
  To take the time I create the space, we had there is so much, internally that is available
• 27:30
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  So let's say the average person is listening and they go, okay, Roxanne and Catherine, this
• 27:37
  is all sold as well.
• 27:38
  It's good.
• 27:39
  You two kinda, you know, hang out in that space.
• 27:42
  But I, you know, I'm I'm I'm having a tough time.
• 27:46
  I'm anxious to sort of depressed.
• 27:47
  You know, I'm stuck at home potentially until, you know, whenever or, you know, I'm juggling a
• 27:55
  spouse or working at home with my children and all that stuff, where do I just start, like, to
• 28:02
  start.
• 28:03
  I hear you.
• 28:04
  Well, and I wrote the book.
• 28:06
  Each of these aspects, you can actually dive into.
• 28:09
  So say, all of a sudden,
• 28:11
  I have some kind of a person in my life with a terminal illness.
• 28:14
  I might start with embracing death and dying and and beginning to think about how does one
• 28:19
  actually navigate that wakefully my book is all about the grit because I might personally,
• 28:27
  I've, had a temper and I had to really face that and face the consequences of that.
• 28:34
  I am 30 years into my marriage, though I'm a kid of a divorce.
• 28:37
  So I'm always amazed that we're doing it, but six children and 10 grandchildren, and we have
• 28:42
  a huge tribe.
• 28:43
  And it's really in the messy that is the powerful stuff.
• 28:49
  This isn't about you and I just having a nice conversation conceptually about what it is to
• 28:53
  be awake and live consciously.
• 28:56
  Is actually in the hard stuff.
• 28:58
  And so to me, it's not, you know, transcendent of our circumstances.
• 29:02
  It's through our circumstances.
• 29:05
  So if we can meet, for example, that anxiety and depression without judgment and with
• 29:12
  curiosity and shame and without shame, Wow.
• 29:16
  Now I'm experiencing this, not I am depressed kind of thing.
• 29:21
  And then and where do I go in I listen deeply, what would my depression speak to?
• 29:26
  What do I know?
• 29:29
  Whatever is sourcing that would, you know, if we are aware and we make space for that
• 29:33
  awareness, it will often come or with the help of a professional or a coach.
• 29:38
  And so I think we always have to start right where we are.
• 29:42
  If we have a difficult relationship in our lives, we go very slowly and simply, and we
• 29:47
  start there.
• 29:48
  So what is one way this relationship, and I in it could be myself at best and differently
• 29:55
  than, I've been.
• 29:57
  And then I'm I am part of a changing dynamic, even though I'm not trying to change someone
• 30:02
  else.
• 30:03
  So I come as you can tell from a, a quite an empowerment kind of place.
• 30:08
  That, there's there's a lot that, pulses within us in terms of, the influence we have over our
• 30:17
  online but people can feel pretty downtrodden, feel pretty hopeless, feel pretty separate from
• 30:24
  others.
• 30:25
  And so, we don't know that.
• 30:28
  We have those capacities always for sure.
• 30:31
  So
• 30:33
  for people that would want to, you know, kinda look at, you know, what my intrinsic value is
• 30:39
  or I'm going through loss or I'm extratified about loss because, you know, of where we're at
• 30:45
  and we're talking about the first vaccine and the second one, and we're not gonna be
• 30:49
  completely fine, and we may never be fine So that that that that fear, you know, is real,
• 30:56
  you know, in a lot of people's brains.
• 30:58
  Yeah.
• 30:59
  Where could they pick up the book?
• 31:01
  Or even reach out to you to to be able to gain more information.
• 31:06
  Sure.
• 31:06
  Well, if they wanna sign copy, they can go to my website, which is harbor glowholistic.com.
• 31:13
  But the book, River to Ocean, live in the flow of wakefulness is also on Automotive.
• 31:18
  They wanna listen.
• 31:18
  I have a great narrator a wonderful woman named Leslie Howard, who narrated it and, the it's
• 31:25
  also on Amazon and Barnes And Noble.
• 31:28
  Some of the independent, sources.
• 31:30
  So there's different ways to get a hold of the book.
• 31:33
  And, I I wrote this book because for some people, they won't ever see a therapist.
• 31:39
  They can't afford a therapist.
• 31:42
  And it just there have been so many therapists in in spiritual teachers that help me, and I
• 31:46
  can be my children's therapist.
• 31:48
  I really wrote this book as a as a handbook.
• 31:52
  You're going through this see, you know, there there's hope.
• 31:55
  Basically, it feels like a book of hope.
• 31:58
  And, again, not a memoir, but my story is throughout.
• 32:01
  And I have had my own struggles, and I decided to be super transparent about that, because I
• 32:06
  think that's how we can offer that hand to someone else and and do their aloneness even
• 32:14
  though I may not meet them.
• 32:16
  My practice is super full, so I'm not necessarily taking a lot of new clients, but I
• 32:20
  do do retreats as well.
• 32:22
  So I've had people sometimes do wakefulness retreats or, couples retreats.
• 32:28
  I do a lot of couples work.
• 32:29
  So
• 32:30
  Awesome.
• 32:31
  I would love to hear from your listener.
• 32:33
  Awesome.
• 32:33
  Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.
• 32:37
  And for everybody, you know, what's one thing I'm, taking away you know, do not
• 32:43
  underestimate, the impact of movements and what it allows you to do, which is to get out of
• 32:49
  your conscious mind and get into your unconscious space.
• 32:55
  And every time you think, oh, I don't know what to do, to Catherine's point, just say, what are
• 33:03
  you trying to tell me?
• 33:04
  What are you trying to show me?
• 33:06
  And, you know, it that's a space that we all have within ourselves, and I always call it it
• 33:11
  that deep authentic voice, but we we need to quite the noise and of that of our digital
• 33:19
  spaces, which is robbing us of that peace of mind to be able to listen.
• 33:24
  So try even if you start just for 5 minutes to to slow your mind.
• 33:30
  It's like anything else.
• 33:31
  It's like, you know, you know, doing a a bicep curl.
• 33:35
  It gets easier each and every time, even though it might be painful at first, which we all know
• 33:40
  that slowing the mind and listening to the bodies is not not an easy thing.
• 33:45
  So, Catherine, thanks so much for your time again.
• 33:48
  And Thank you for having me.
• 33:50
  And all all the information about being able to connect with her will be in the show notes.
• 33:54
  And for myself, if you're looking for, guidance on authentic leadership, either at home or at
• 34:01
  work, you could reach me at roxannedurhodge.com.
• 34:05
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne creating the space for positive,
• 34:11
  healthy change.
• 34:12
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne visit
• 34:19
  Roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 34:22
  We'll see you next time.
• 34:24
  An authentic living with Roxanne.