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A Family Affair! Musical theatre, Sheffield feet and TikTok podiatry · No Appointment Necessary

• 0:00
  Michael: So welcome to the latest episode of No Appointment Necessary.
• 0:03
  Michael: Today we have I think one of my favourite clients in Emily from LR Podiatry.
• 0:08
  Michael: We've just been having a chat for about half an hour before we came.
• 0:11
  Michael: Um yeah, just covering some stuff.
• 0:14
  Michael: But um Emily, Emily is uh I've known you now for I think about a year, just over a year now.
• 0:19
  Michael: Yeah.
• 0:19
  Michael: You came on board, you you run LR Podiatry up in Sheffield, and I really wanted to get you on because I think you've got a brilliant story, and there's loads of cool things that you do.
• 0:28
  Michael: You've got a relatively small clinic.
• 0:30
  Michael: Um I I think you've got a really interesting story, and as I say, some of the things you do socials, and I want to cover a lot of that stuff.
• 0:36
  Michael: So why don't we start off with just you introducing yourself very quickly?
• 0:39
  Emily: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 0:40
  Emily: I'm Emily.
• 0:41
  Emily: Um I run LR Podiatry in Sheffield with my mum, Lise.
• 0:45
  Emily: Um I came to podiatry a little bit later in life.
• 0:47
  Emily: I actually trained in musical theatre and did that for 10 or so years prior to doing this.
• 0:54
  Emily: And so about six years ago, it um I decided to make the move and follow my mum into her business.
• 1:01
  Emily: And she had a single chair practice, just her very kind of cut-and-comer done with podiatrist, so we do podiatry.
• 1:08
  Emily: I think she was feeling quite disillusioned with her day-to-day.
• 1:11
  Emily: And I I decided that I hated everything about my life when I was I was living in London.
• 1:17
  Emily: Um, I hated my job, my career choice, my boyfriend, everything.
• 1:22
  Emily: Um, and it sounds really morbid, but you know what happened?
• 1:26
  Emily: Um, my granddad died, right?
• 1:28
  Emily: He was old.
• 1:29
  Emily: It was sad, but you know, it was time.
• 1:32
  Emily: And uh I came back for a very depressing 7th of January funeral.
• 1:37
  Emily: That's a rubbish day to go to a funeral, isn't it?
• 1:39
  Emily: And I was there and it was sort of looking around at some of my cousins and we were in Sheffield, and I just thought, I think they might be a bit happier than me.
• 1:49
  Emily: And I don't think I'm actually that happy with what I'm doing.
• 1:52
  Emily: So a week later, I'd rammed all of my belongings into my tiny little Toyota I go, and I was caning it back up the M1.
• 2:00
  Emily: My dad came down on the train and squashed in there with me because I didn't want to do it on my own.
• 2:06
  Emily: And I, yeah, broke up with my boyfriend, I moved out, quit all my jobs, and so what what were you doing as a job at the time?
• 2:13
  Emily: So I'd done loads of like lovely jobs.
• 2:16
  Emily: I'd done loads of panto, I'd worked at Disney, um, worked at Disneyland Paris for a while.
• 2:21
  Emily: I'd done like loads of stuff with films and like like shadow choreography.
• 2:26
  Emily: So you work with actors to help them learn their choreography and then they go and dance it with somebody else on screen.
• 2:31
  Emily: So I'd done loads of things like that.
• 2:32
  Emily: But to be honest, a lot of the time I was like teaching baby ballet and diddy dance and stage coaches and those types of things.
• 2:41
  Emily: And I just, yeah, I just wasn't happy.
• 2:43
  Emily: And I think I'd loved London for so long and then got to a point where it almost gave me the ick.
• 2:48
  Emily: I kind of got to a point where I was like, ah, I just feel like I think I just had, yeah, had this overwhelming feeling to change.
• 2:55
  Emily: Where in where in London where in London we were Greenwich.
• 2:58
  Emily: Okay.
• 2:59
  Emily: It's pretty nice.
• 3:00
  Emily: Oh, it's lovely, and I and I loved it for ages.
• 3:02
  Emily: But I think once I'd made that, and I think as well, I was reaching my mid-20s, and I knew that I wanted children in my future and and a family, and I just wanted to be near my family.
• 3:16
  Michael: And feet, obviously.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: They were uh no, I never thought I was gonna I think I you know, obviously grew up with a mum who was a podiatrist, and I just didn't even like notice, if you know what I mean.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Like she'd send us down while I was like training, and I was always helping my friends at dance college with their blisters and all sorts of weird things that my mum would post to us to put on our you know, open wounds that we would uh dance on.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: But yeah, other than that, I'd never really noticed it.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: So when I moved back home, um just you know, really, really committed to being depressed for a while.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: That was kind of a key part of this.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm really close to my mum anyway, even before working with her.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: We have I, you know, I am the type of person who will ring my mum at like multiple intervals during the day to just let her know what, you know, she's like a running journal for me.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: And so I ended up just going to work with her quite a lot.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Um, at that time, she was well, this is interesting actually.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: She was thinking, like, I need she just had a page of a website.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: It was just one page, and it was just one step up from her having had the yellow pages, you know.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: It was a slightly different era to what it is now, obviously.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: There was there's that, but also she just wasn't engaged with it at all.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: So I said, I think I can make your website.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: So we got a Wix website, and uh and I spent hours and hours doing that.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: And actually, you know, as Wix websites go, and in fact, you said my Wix website was not actually that bad.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: It was it was it was better than one we had made, uh, which I'm sure we'll get to.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Uh so that's how I entered it, and then I decided, well, actually, podiatry is a really cool profession.
• 4:50
  Michael: And just a couple of questions.
• 4:52
  Michael: Just a couple of questions.
• 4:53
  Michael: First of all, you've got, and we'll get into your TikTok later.
• 4:55
  Michael: Why are you not the dancing podiatrist given your background?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: How it started all our social media around 2020.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Mum and I, because my mum is quite good too, like she goes to an adult art class, and she can definitely, you know, takes her a few takes.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I don't get frustrated with her at all.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: But um, she is actually really good at like picking stuff up, and she she's she is a good dancer.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So um we that's how we started, and we were doing one every single week for ages, all throughout COVID and the sort of the years that followed.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And then as we got a bit bigger and a bit busier, that kind of petered off.
• 5:31
  Michael: Yeah.
• 5:31
  Michael: Well, we'll get we'll get into your you'll get into your socials and TikTok a bit later.
• 5:35
  Michael: One other question, I know we we actually have quite a few um physios.
• 5:40
  Michael: Well, actually, we've got physios and chiropractors who were involved in dance in some way.
• 5:44
  Michael: I think one was a ballroom dancing champion, um, and they actually have a service dealing in a very niche way with dancers.
• 5:51
  Michael: So we've got I think we've got two or three.
• 5:53
  Michael: Um, and we've also got an osteopath actually who worked in the film industry and with quite a lot of famous people, and that's part of what he does.
• 6:00
  Michael: Do you do anything specialist at all with either with the kind of more famous people and film industry or with dancers?
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Not particularly, no.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love it when I get someone who has that background comes into the clinic.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm just being a bit like self-deprecating.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I just sometimes think maybe, you know, I I did great at dance college, I trained hard, I I did a great few jobs, but I didn't thrive in the industry.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't it doesn't matter.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: No, that maybe holds me back sometimes, that feeling of like, oh wait, well, I didn't make it, so I'm not actually a note because I actually think it's a pretty good niche for you to get into.
• 6:41
  Michael: I think um dancers always have problems with feet, and they do.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Well, there's evidence to suggest that.
• 6:46
  Michael: Of course.
• 6:47
  Michael: We are gonna push that.
• 6:49
  Michael: I'm gonna give you a shout this week.
• 6:51
  Michael: Oh no, I'm getting a to-do list after this.
• 6:53
  Michael: You are.
• 6:54
  Michael: I I think it's important.
• 6:55
  Michael: And honestly, I think when you have any kind of experience in in something, I think, and this is a tip to all clinic owners, really.
• 7:03
  Michael: If you have an experience in something, people connect with that.
• 7:06
  Michael: They I remember I had a shoulder problem, I was doing powerlifting, and this is before I got into the industry, and I was convinced the only physio that could help me was someone who did powerlifting as well.
• 7:15
  Michael: So I was searching endlessly for a powerlifting physio.
• 7:18
  Michael: So I think um you're gonna find a lot of dancers think, okay, this person has experience in dance and in the entertainment industry, so they will more more than likely know about something.
• 7:27
  Michael: So I think if you have experience in anything, whether it's powerlifting or netball or whatever the case may be, I think it's quite a good idea to try and niche down on that as a specialist service, not as the only thing you do, but but I think you probably find a good few patients for that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: It's definitely something I have wanted to do.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I guess there's that limiting belief holding me back that I won't be good at it.
• 7:49
  Michael: But you and every other bloody clinic owner on a syndromes.
• 7:54
  Michael: Um talk to me about what it's like working with your mum on a day-to-day basis.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: We actually do really, really well.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I honestly this sounds I don't want this to sound like I don't know what the word is, but we uh we genuinely get on fine.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: My dad worked with us too.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Did you know that?
• 8:07
  Michael: I didn't know.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So my dad is also there, he was a builder um for years, like you know, most of his career.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: And then when we got our new premises, which was in 2021, he did all of that, so he refurbished the whole thing, him and his brother.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Um, and we'd helped.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: And then after that, he was in his mid-50s, and uh I I think the thought of going up a ladder was becoming less and less um, you know, appealing to him.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we kind of took him on as just backup admin, really, because it it it's uh there's a lot to do.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So he kind of took on a whole chunk of that, and we have a lovely big listed building in Sheffield City Centre, which needs a lot of ongoing maintenance to it and things in facilities stuff.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: So he uh yeah, he's a real key part of our business.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: So yeah, the three of us together, and we get on really well, and it's all it's fine.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And I guess there's that we're not an argumentative family, we kind of are quite quite straight.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: We honestly find it quite easy.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I guess our concern is sometimes is that what it's like for other people working with us?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Because I don't know how I would feel about going to work for somebody's like close-knit family.
• 9:19
  Michael: But we have I think it's amazing.
• 9:21
  Michael: I I think that um when you have a really well-run family business, they are always the ones that thrive, they're always the ones that have the best culture, the the sort of friendly atmosphere.
• 9:31
  Michael: And it's often those companies when they do really well that then get sold to some other business and everything breaks because it's the the family that holds it together.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: It's the unconditional love element, I think, because it's interesting.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we talk about, you know, with with team and things, you have to have small moments of confrontation, which we're not very we say we're not very good at, right?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: As a family, we like, oh, we don't really do that.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: But it turns out, after a lot of like, you know, coaching and self-development as a team, that we are really good at it because there's that, um there's that it's underpinned by unconditional love.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So you can say the things that I can say things to my mum or my dad about how I feel about situations way easier than I can to a team member, because I'm not worried that they're gonna decide they hate me.
• 10:22
  Michael: It's the same with me and Hannah.
• 10:23
  Michael: And I remember, you know, lots of people saying because I have a big thing about not working with a business partner.
• 10:28
  Michael: I think you it's it's it's a bad idea.
• 10:30
  Michael: You've got to have someone that's in charge, you've got to have someone running things.
• 10:33
  Michael: But actually, having a business partner in Hannah with your other half, you you have someone else you can lean on.
• 10:38
  Michael: When times are tough, when things are getting wrong, you've got someone else.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I mum say this all the time.
• 10:44
  Michael: Yeah, and I can't imagine working my arse off and then uh you know your other half doing something else and having no support and then wanting to talk, and they're like, Can't you just leave work at home?
• 10:53
  Michael: And it's you know, as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, you do take work into your personal life.
• 10:58
  Michael: And I think when you have a family around you, that makes all the difference.
• 11:01
  Michael: I'd recommend for anyone to get their family involved, as long as they like their family.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I yeah, definitely feel that I agree, doing it together because also you have to make some brave decisions, and it feels like I I can't really imagine having to make those decisions all by myself.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: That sounds silly, but at le you know, at least we're both there for each other.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And also the other thing is is when things are however they are on a day, you can be up or down for the other person.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: So, you know, some days I might have I've got a little girl, she's just turned two, and obviously over the last two years I've had an uh incredibly high lack of sleep.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And you go in, and I know that my mum will just like bring up what I am lacking, and then like vice versa.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: You you can you can take one for the team a little bit for each other, which you wouldn't be able to do if you were solo.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, hats off to all the people who do it on their own.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I think they're amazing.
• 11:56
  Michael: I think it's really tough doing it on your own, and I always suggest having at least someone if they're not a member of the family, having someone as a a sounding board, someone that you can talk to.
• 12:04
  Michael: Often it's actually us as a as a company, actually.
• 12:06
  Michael: How many people watching it?
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Or other business owners in your community and you have a bit of a yeah, they are imperative to success, I think.
• 12:16
  Michael: Yeah, I think so.
• 12:16
  Michael: And of course, having a dad that's a builder.
• 12:18
  Michael: I was just talking to a podcast, Jack Winyard, who owns Winchester Physio, and and he actually got his dad's builder and he did all the work for free, basically.
• 12:27
  Michael: So that's gotta save a little bit of money when things go wrong or you get a leak or whatever.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, it takes the pressure off there.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: There's something happens, you're just like, oh, to put on dad's list.
• 12:36
  Michael: How big's dad's list?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: We call him if he's being the builder, we call him Polio instead of Paul.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: So we put it on Polio's list.
• 12:44
  Michael: That's me.
• 12:45
  Michael: I didn't realise about your dad.
• 12:46
  Michael: So in terms of um so I guess that sort of informs the whole culture within the business, doesn't it?
• 12:51
  Michael: Because you've got a lovely culture, you've got a really I don't know, you've always had a lovely team and lovely feeling around the business.
• 12:56
  Michael: And I guess that's because of the family kind of family relationships.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I would I definitely think so.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, um, as part of like this journey in business, as I said previously, we have done a lot of personal work as well, which is really important, and we have worked extensively on our own personal values and what our business values are, and they they're very different, obviously, but I think as a family, probably our highest up value is actually like humour and fun, and we generally try not to take things too seriously if we can, and we like to have a nice time.
• 13:35
  Michael: Yeah, I've noticed that about you guys, and it it definitely translates whether it's the photography that you you have or on the socials or just meeting you in person as well at the get motion.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so nice.
• 13:45
  Michael: It was it was lovely meeting you in person, actually.
• 13:48
  Michael: But you can you can definitely tell that that sort of radiates through, and and I think that's what makes um really good business is that is that fun and that that that friendly energy.
• 13:58
  Michael: And you can tell you know if you go into a business that does that or doesn't.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: I guess sometimes it's like, oh, because obviously we work in healthcare and that's a fairly serious topic, and you want to be taken seriously too.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Um but honestly, so much of the time I find that we just lighten the mood a little bit.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: People someone what did someone in a review someone once referred to as as reassuringly informal.
• 14:24
  Michael: That's good.
• 14:24
  Michael: I like that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And I thought that was a nice way to describe us because he obviously felt safe and cared for, but also, you know, he had a nice time.
• 14:32
  Michael: That reassuringly informal.
• 14:34
  Michael: I think it's really important.
• 14:35
  Michael: I think uh a lot of people forget that people like me, the the non-clinicians, we get really scared, we get really worried, we get concerned, and and when we are met with a very clinically clinician who isn't all that friendly, it it doesn't help us, it doesn't help us relax.
• 14:52
  Michael: And I think if I always say this, if I went and spoke to your patients or to certain other clean spatiations, said, Why do you go and CLR?
• 14:59
  Michael: They will say things like, It just feels like such a safe space.
• 15:03
  Michael: Um, we can have fun, we feel welcome, we feel, you know, it it's all about feelings, it's all about being happy to be there and looking forward almost to being there, right?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: One of the things we tell our team and that we work on a lot is treating our patients as if they are part of our family.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So even when you get those patients that do you do struggle with and that are hard to help or challenge in some ways, you have to really dig deep for the empathy and think, okay, well, if this was my uncle or this was my grandma or if it was my little brother, what would I want for them?
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Let's do that.
• 15:38
  Michael: So you you talked about because I wanted to cover your brand a little bit.
• 15:41
  Michael: And you you said that you had your sort of brand belief and so on.
• 15:45
  Michael: What is it?
• 15:45
  Michael: I'm really intrigued in in how you see it.
• 15:48
  Michael: So what is yeah, what is that central tenant of the brand?
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: One of our main values is that we are family and we treat each other and our patients with care, humour, and love.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: That is our kind of main thing.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: And then I think the other thing, we have a few values that kind of encompass just having a growth mindset, so always being willing to learn and um change and get better, and that no one is too big for the small jobs that we all just muck in and we all do the jobs that need doing when they need doing.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Nobody's too there's no not my job mentality, and I think they're they're the things there, and then just all of it with a little sprinkle of humour on top.
• 16:30
  Michael: I I love that.
• 16:30
  Michael: No job is too small.
• 16:33
  Michael: I really like that.
• 16:34
  Michael: I think that's really important as well.
• 16:35
  Michael: Out of interest, because I think you are probably one of those terrible clinicians that gives way too much time to their patients sometimes.
• 16:43
  Michael: Where if we just looked at this, if I just came in and did a time management study and and was very commercial, I'd probably look at you guys and go, You're losing quite a lot of money here.
• 16:52
  Michael: Um, do you find that difficult to balance sometimes in in terms of both your personal life?
• 16:57
  Michael: Because I think uh a lot of clinicians can often they they want to give so much to their patients that actually their personal personal life suffers as well.
• 17:03
  Michael: They don't get home on time, they miss things.
• 17:05
  Michael: But at the same time, also commercially, do you find that difficult to balance or or is that easy for you?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Well, we've had loads of struggles with this, and we've had to adjust our model loads over the last few years, and really truthfully, I think we will continue to do that over the next however long.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: At the moment, like we've got it to a place where we feel like it's good.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And I think not only is it having the right appointment time, so that you actually do have time to give people the care that's especially first initial appointments, you need to be able to really understand, and that's one of the things that we have in private healthcare that sets us apart from the NHS is that we have time um to understand properly what's going on with somebody because we can listen to all of it, not just the one thing that they're allowed to talk about in the 10 minutes they have with their GP.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So that's really important.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: But equally, I am also aware that people don't want to come in and sit there for an hour.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Like people have got better things to do.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: A lot of people just want to come in, say it, fish brush, bosh, and and leave again, especially if they've got a busy lifestyle, which we all have, and they're just nipping out of working to come in and things like that.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's definitely hard to strike the balance.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Um, and making sure that if you are having longer appointment times, that you just your prices reflect that.
• 18:22
  Michael: It's so easy to what about those extra bits where yeah, I get it, where uh a client will what's happening on a Saturday afternoon and say, Can't you just help me with this?
• 18:31
  Michael: or on a Sunday evening.
• 18:32
  Michael: Honestly, I get it all the time, Friday night.
• 18:34
  Michael: Do you get any of that sort of out of our stuff?
• 18:37
  Michael: Because I think the more friendly you are with clients, the more they I over I don't want to say overstep the mark, but they just expect you to continue acting in that way.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Um I actually had a patient uh message me uh they emailed the other day asking whether I think they should go skiing in March.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: And I was a bit like, I've got no idea, actually.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Um and I definitely think when you especially when you've got someone who maybe isn't getting better how you'd expect, you feel this guilt almost that you know what and you have to have you know, you have to try and separate from that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Um but yeah, we try and we try not to engage with that outside of work times.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: The only exception we have is that if we've done sort of like a surgery on somebody, so mainly things like nail surgery or needling, especially if we've done it on a Friday and they are concerned over the weekend, we do tell them to get in contact, and I will happily reassure them because that's quite a big thing.
• 19:41
  Michael: I think your company and my company are very similar in that um we really develop friendships.
• 19:47
  Michael: It's more than just you're a client, pay your invoice, and we'll do your stuff.
• 19:51
  Michael: We genuinely do create friendships and um and you know it's it's important to me that we we have those.
• 19:57
  Michael: I find sometimes it's really difficult when.
• 19:59
  Michael: You when you do create so many friendships across so many people that sometimes again it is difficult to say no to people when they want something or need something.
• 20:09
  Michael: And sometimes not even want, it's just you know that they're struggling, so you go that extra mile.
• 20:13
  Michael: But as you grow, and and you have done over the last 12 months, as you grow, that becomes more and more difficult to deal with.
• 20:21
  Michael: Do you have any strategies for that?
• 20:22
  Michael: I because I'd love to know, because I I don't know what to do.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Well, one thing I've worked hard on because I personally feel a lot of guilt for things that don't exist.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I feel mum guilt, practitioner guilt, I feel guilt, I feel guilt within our business because like sometimes if something is like if I have to bow out of something, I know that my mum has to pick up the slack and that makes me feel guilty because she's my mum, like so there's a lot of guilt here, and I feel like I'm harping around about values a lot, which I never thought I'd be this person, but here we are.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that has really helped me is um thinking about if I say no to something, is it because I am I acting outside of my values?
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So for instance, if I get road rage and I were to like get out of my car and shout at the old man in front of me for doing 25 and a 50, then I would say I was acting outside of my values and I should be ashamed of myself and the guilt is necessary.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: But um, if I have to say, you know, I'm really sorry, but we can't accommodate this because of X, Y, and Z to a patient, because you know, that's what our policy is and it's best.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not acting outside of my values.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I'm actually acting within them.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And so that helps me to kind of shelve the guilt a little bit.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: It's an ongoing battle.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: But yeah, that's one of the things that I found helpful.
• 21:39
  Michael: Uh, it's an interesting one.
• 21:40
  Michael: I wish I could do that.
• 21:40
  Michael: Because I promise you, if you uh you probably know this, if you call me at 10 pm on a Saturday night and said you need something, I will just be like, right, what do you need?
• 21:47
  Michael: I'll I'll bloody drive up to Sheffield.
• 21:49
  Michael: And it's it's a it's no, I genuinely would.
• 21:52
  Michael: It's it's it's a failing, but at the same time, to some extent, it's a it's a good thing as well.
• 21:56
  Michael: But commercially it can be really bad.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a hard one.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I think lots of people must struggle with this.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: And I think you know, obviously you're not a practitioner, but when especially when you work in a care, you could you know, a lot of the reason that people go into healthcare is because they care about people, they want people to be better, and so fighting that battle of not caring as much for people that you meant caring about is really hard, yeah.
• 22:21
  Michael: Yeah, it is.
• 22:22
  Michael: So talking of that, because it's it's interesting you you said that, you know, you're not in healthcare.
• 22:27
  Michael: And what's interesting is I think that we deal with people who are almost more in need and struggle even more than your average patient.
• 22:35
  Michael: And you are a really good example of that.
• 22:37
  Michael: And I still remember the first time we spoke, you were you were not a happy person on the on the call, you were going through it, right?
• 22:44
  Michael: You were Yeah, it was a rough time.
• 22:46
  Michael: It was not good, and I I I remember that call vividly, and it's almost like what could go wrong did go wrong.
• 22:54
  Michael: And uh we don't need to get into it all all the all the stuff.
• 22:57
  Michael: Um it's it's life certainly wasn't very good at that point in time.
• 23:00
  Michael: And I remember just thinking, oh my god, we're like, we are gonna put this right.
• 23:04
  Michael: And do you remember?
• 23:04
  Michael: I said to you, you said I just uh everything's gone wrong, and you blah blah blah.
• 23:08
  Michael: And I was like, we got this.
• 23:09
  Michael: Like I was like, you need to stop worrying.
• 23:12
  Michael: Like, why the white tears we are gonna got this?
• 23:15
  Michael: Oh yeah, there were some tears.
• 23:17
  Michael: And we there were tears, but we got it, right?
• 23:19
  Michael: And it was it was it wasn't that disastrous, but it's interesting because we we do everyone calling me up crying, but um we do have a lot of people, they are struggling, they're lonely in practice, they think they're the only one that's doing badly, and everyone else is a millionaire, and it's just it's just not the case.
• 23:35
  Michael: So talk me through because we you know, you've got a brilliant clinic now, and and we'll go into a bit more of that.
• 23:39
  Michael: But I'm really interested in in that period of time and and like the things that were going wrong.
• 23:44
  Michael: And I and I mean more in terms of the business decisions that were being made and and and over the last 12 months, although it didn't take 12 months, right?
• 23:52
  Michael: It's it was pretty quick.
• 23:53
  Michael: It was within probably about three or four months things start to turn around.
• 23:57
  Michael: So, what were the things that were the big issues and what were the things that you did to kind of turn it around from that ugh, I want I don't know what to do.
• 24:05
  Michael: I want to now I've got to break up with my boyfriend again and move back to London.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I'd married him by that point, and you so it was it was more stuff.
• 24:14
  Michael: But what what so what were the big bad business decisions you made and then how did you turn it all around?
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so for I guess for some context, we had made a lot of changes prior to getting to this point of, you know, the scary point that where we where we met you, Michael, and your amazing team.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Um and we had hired maybe one person too many in the hope that we would kind of speculate to accumulate things were going kind of okay.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that I knew I hadn't given much attention to was our website.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: We had a um a self-built by me Wix website, which in terms of what we needed it to do, kind of did the job.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not an expert, I don't understand anything about websites, you know, anything.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't really know anything.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I'd kind of just done what I thought looked nice.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And it was, you know, we had Google Analytics, it was doing like enough.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And I knew that we needed better.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So what I did was I sort of searched around and we found someone who we thought was appropriate, they were recommended to us.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And this had been a year prior to meeting you.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: So when was it was like it was like January, February this year, I think that we October 24.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Was it?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: So it's this whole pro process had started earlier than this in the beginning of 2023.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: So we went ahead with a company we were very pleased with because we were very highly recommended to us, um, and it just didn't go how I wanted it to.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: And it took a long time for a things to happen.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And then when we moved over to having a new website and having SEO, everything just tanked and our new patient numbers just bottomed out truly.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: We clawed our way through a um a December, but like the January, February were really, really, really bad.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And we were really stressed.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Um, so we are part of a coaching group called The Hive, and we kind of spoke to them about this problem, and it was them we you came so highly recommended from quality practices.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: You know, they were kind of like you, there's nobody else.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: You have to go with these guys, and it's really, I think it's very scary to make that decision to do this process again when you've kind of had a bad experience already.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: And it's even scarier when you actually have no personal knowledge of what's good and what's bad.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: You're just trusting that the person in front of you is telling the truth, and not even that they're telling the truth, but they actually, because you know, the people that we used previously, they didn't do anything negligent, they didn't do anything in their eyes.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't think they were trying to be bad, they were they would they just were bad, and we just so happened to be caught in the crossfire of that, I guess.
• 27:02
  Michael: Um I think just on that.
• 27:03
  Michael: So, first of all, Blake uh is gonna be and Troy, they're gonna be on a podcast in a couple of weeks.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, amazing.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Uh they're fab.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Michael: Hive hive are great, and and uh yeah, we'll get them on.
• 27:13
  Michael: I think uh it it's it was easier for you actually to make the decision because you're already at like the bottom, and it was like, well, shit, I've gotta do something, otherwise I've got no business.
• 27:25
  Michael: I think where it is really, really difficult uh for those people who are doing all right, and and then it's like, do we trust this person?
• 27:32
  Michael: Do we trust this company?
• 27:33
  Michael: And and it is it is it is hard, isn't it?
• 27:35
  Michael: You know, you're spending more money, particularly often money that you don't necessarily have.
• 27:40
  Michael: And yeah, I I I I still remember you were very, very nervous about it all, and and I get it.
• 27:46
  Michael: And and I do remember your previous website was actually all right.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: That was like the moment that made me feel the most gutted, is you like looked because the Wix one was still going.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: We had the one that we'd had made, and you were like looking at them both, and you were like, the one that you made was better, and I was like, You're joking.
• 28:02
  Michael: When it had a bit of personality to it, and by the way, it wasn't just the the website, it was that um I don't want to get too technical about this, but when you do build a new website or or do anything digital, you've got to think through like if your URL was lrpediatry.co.uk forward slash gate analysis, you've got to on the new website do the same thing, call it gate analysis because otherwise you lose your rankings.
• 28:26
  Michael: And I think one of the things that had happened over that year was that all of you'd rankings had dropped, all the dropped, and so I don't okay, I do think it was negligent, I don't think it was necessarily purposeful.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I would agree.
• 28:40
  Michael: But it wasn't great, and you know, when you looked at your traffic, because a lot of these problems were very simple to solve.
• 28:45
  Michael: That's why I was so confident.
• 28:46
  Michael: I was like, right, stop, we've got this.
• 28:48
  Michael: Um, because you know, you could see that traffic had dropped, and then it was just a case of you've got such a lovely, you know, you and your mum's so lovely, and it's like, let's get that personality across, let's speak to that brand that you were talking about and the values, and let's get that traffic back.
• 29:03
  Michael: And literally, I mean it was pretty damn quick.
• 29:05
  Michael: I think you sent a really lovely note to the team a few months later saying I I like life's a little bit better now.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Um, I can't even like express to you how much of a difference it made.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: It had well, firstly, I'll just say that we we had we said sort of go on having a new website built with you guys, and it took six weeks, literally to the day, to get from zero to live website.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I had to provide You did the work too.
• 29:35
  Michael: It wasn't just us.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: But bear in mind that I'd just been through all of this.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Kind of I was part of my routine doing all the work for it.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: But um, you know, I guess if you do your bits quickly, then the stuff was just there and ready.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: And that went live.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And then we also did some Google ad work with you as well.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: And you can see in our, you know, as lots of clinics do, we we track all of our metrics.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: You can just see the the line of the graph kind of shoot up.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And yeah, we had a we had a 45% increase in new patients in that space.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: It was, you know, over like a three-month period, and it has maintained since then.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: We um yeah, we've had a little drop recently because we've lost a practitioner, but like, you know, it's nice when you know exactly why the numbers change rather than blindly panicking about them.
• 30:25
  Michael: I honestly it's such a lovely story, and and and your biggest issue is actually capacity now, nothing else.
• 30:30
  Michael: Like you could grow three, four times in size if you really wanted to, if that's that's where you want to go.
• 30:35
  Michael: Um because you've you've got everything right now, you know.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, even the even recently in our clinic in Podiatry, we we kind of split our new patient appointments between skin and nail things and um MSK biomechanics.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And we're we're not huge we're definitely a 60-40 split there.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: We're definitely heavier on the skin and nails.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Um we are getting better at MSK.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: MSK is something that I love and enjoy, but I'm still quite newly qualified as a podiatrist.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: You know, we're learning and changing all the time.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Um, but we spoke recently uh with Henry and Tom doing SEO, and we um we changed a few things, and like even next week, we've got like four times the amount of new MSK patients than we had like six weeks ago.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we really see a big difference when we do things.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: It's been really obvious.
• 31:27
  Michael: I I think um, and I can certainly say, you know, the teams will be brilliant, but it's not all us, right?
• 31:31
  Michael: You you've got to do stuff internally as well, and and I I think it's much easier when you see numbers coming through and life's getting spectacle.
• 31:39
  Michael: I think just naturally you have you're more positive in the clinic and and you make probably better decisions as well.
• 31:46
  Michael: Um because life's just easier, right?
• 31:48
  Michael: It it's it's not money's flowing.
• 31:50
  Michael: But what what did you do over the last year to really make a difference as well?
• 31:54
  Michael: Because it's not all uh down to marketing.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: No, so one of the things we did, and I have to credit a gentleman called Jonathan Shearer, and he is a podiatrist.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: You know Jonathan.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a client.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: So here here's his plug, uh, because he's an awesome guy.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: He is a very giving, he comes from a place of abundance, he is very giving with his knowledge and things, and he did a little talk at one of our hive events about networking, and uh he coined a phrase which was go to where the buffaloes are, which now we just use all the time.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: But basically, he really inspired us to stop sitting behind a screen.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Now, I know we've mentioned it a few times, we do loads of social media, but we are have a city centre clinic, so we're right in Sheffield City Centre, right behind the cathedral.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: You know, we're in an amazing spot.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: So we we have physically face to face gone out of our way to create a community around us.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the big things that we've done.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Specifically around us, we've had loads of events this year with Pilates Studio, Climbing Wall, there's like a PT slash CrossFit Gym near us, and up uh our branch near us of Up and Running, which is a running shoe shop, which I'm I think are all over the country.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Um and so those guys there, they have actually been our best kind of friends.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: They've come and shadowed us in clinic, we've spent time there talking to their clients and customers.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: We've done events together with them and shoe brands like Ultra and I never know if it's Ofos or Ofus, but um, they're like a slider shoe brand.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: And we've done events at the climbing wall.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: So that's been a really big thing that we have done.
• 33:31
  Michael: How did you just just how interesting?
• 33:33
  Michael: And we I'll have to email Jonathan later because I'd love him on the podcast to talk about that.
• 33:37
  Michael: Um but how did you um because this is always a question I get asked.
• 33:43
  Michael: How do you get that relationship going?
• 33:45
  Michael: Like, how do you how do you go about it?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I just went in, I told them about who we were, and then I tried to find the key person.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: So, like, for instance, well, like one of them is really, really easy because um the Pilate studio was it is run by my old dance teacher.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Shout out to Miss Jenny if she's listening to me.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Um she was like, call me Jenny, and I just can't.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: If you've ever been to dance school, like you know, like I'm still can't get out of calling her Miss Jenny.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: So that was good because we had a relationship already and we were like, this is mutually beneficial for us, let's let's collab here.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And we've talked to her clients and her team.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: So we've talked to Pilates instructors and talked to them specifically about what they might see in people if they are, you know, there's some things that you could really help with and get them referring and stuff like that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: But the big thing we did was we invited somebody in for a complimentary assessment.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: So we have the gate in motion foot scan.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I saw you at the conference recently.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: We've got a few other things like, well, we don't have loads, but we have Shockwave and we have a beautiful clinic, to be honest.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: We really do.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: We have a gorgeous big um MSK kind of like big gate analysis lab.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: So I just invited them in, showed them around totally free, like just as a chance for them to see actually what we do and what they would get or people that they recommend would get out of it.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: And then I've offered to do things at their places.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: So for instance, at the climbing wall, we just we just go down there every few months, spend a bit of time chatting to people.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Climbers' feet are really weird.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: So they're actually like quite unusually shaped.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So we've just been learning about it, and that's been that's been really key because I think it makes you just feel we lack community in our culture so much now, especially like face-to-face community, that it's it's really yeah, it's been a really lovely thing to develop.
• 35:36
  Michael: I think community is the way forward.
• 35:37
  Michael: I I really do, and and I've seen people do stuff with bridge clubs, I've seen people do uh the one of the biggest things at the moment is walks, whether it's on the sort of MSK side or the pod side, just organise a walk for some of the oldies.
• 35:50
  Michael: Um, you know, if you've got that capability, answer their questions, talk to them about their feet, about their their issues, whatever.
• 35:58
  Michael: Um, and it works incredibly well.
• 35:59
  Michael: Once you start building that group, I don't know if Isia's doing menopause cafes and another one doing um what was the other cafe they're doing?
• 36:06
  Michael: Anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 36:07
  Michael: The point is that the more of those sort of community things you do, the more you become known in the community and the more central you become to the big community.
• 36:16
  Michael: And even in a place like Sheffield, you know, it is it it's a it's a big city, um, but I I I still think you can do a lot.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: It's got village culture though.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I call it the Sheffield Village.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:27
  Michael: So I spent many, much of my time as a kid in Sheffield because I went yeah, I went to boarding school and I was beaten up badly because I was all little and and uh there was a guy called Rufus Pennell who was a Sheffield United fan, he was a blade, and he used to take the sixth warmers to the games, and that would Oh, sorry.
• 36:47
  Michael: There happened to be a spare spot and he only threw me in the ugly blade.
• 36:53
  Michael: So I once was outside Bramble Lane with the bucket raising money to to um sign Brian Dean back from Donny.
• 37:02
  Michael: Uh I know I so I will have to uh we and Hannah some Hannah sometimes will have to come and say hello.
• 37:10
  Michael: Anyway, um talking of which, do you do anything with the football clubs?
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: We do do some stuff with the football clubs, and we don't do like we don't go into the clubs, but we do get some other players in.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have we that we have some good relationships with the with the doctors there, so they come to us, but yes.
• 37:26
  Michael: Awesome, because Hannah used to do some stuff with Sheffield United with the shockwave.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:31
  Michael: Um yeah, I think so.
• 37:33
  Michael: The community stuff, is there anything else that you do?
• 37:35
  Michael: Um what else has really helped you grow?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Well, just onboarding things that automate stuff that's helped us grow so that we don't miss out on things.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: So, you know, having the right, I guess tech, and we're not the most techie, and I think also we're about to see a big change in this because there's gonna be so much we can more we can do with AI.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: But just yeah, automating what we can so that you know we don't lose out on, especially like rebookings, recalls, things like that.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Um we've extensively worked with our team to make sure that you know we get patients rebooked.
• 38:09
  Michael: Are you doing that with the hive or is that your personal stuff?
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: A lot of that is with the hive, but I think when you think about it and you and you think about what our brand is like and our ethos, and you think, okay, if this was my grandma and she came in and she had, you know, something that we might think is simple to fix, and then we thought, oh, she'll probably be okay.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I don't need to, I don't really need to see her again.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Is that is that really what you would want for them?
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Because um I actually had this myself recently.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I went to a physio without oversharing.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I had a baby recently.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I went to see a women's health physio about my pelvic floor, and I had a lovely consultation with this physio.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I felt like I had got some good information from her.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: She gave me some exercises and she just sent me on my way.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: And I actually came out of it feeling really deflated and a bit gutted because I just knew that I wasn't gonna be motivated to do it.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I wanted her to re-book me and say, right, do this in six weeks, we'll recheck these things, we'll do whatever.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: And I would have just felt like someone cared about me a bit more and like wanted me to get better.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Whereas I just felt like she was like, Yeah, like just do this, you'll be fine.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Did you tell her?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't.
• 39:23
  Michael: You see, that's you you you should.
• 39:25
  Michael: And I'll find out I'll find out afterwards who it is because I think I might know who it is, and I may know the clinic owner.
• 39:30
  Michael: And it's definitely the sort of thing, but honestly, I think if if um I knew someone that came to see you and they said this was my experience, you'd want to know.
• 39:39
  Michael: Um You would, yeah.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's right.
• 39:42
  Michael: I should have said I went to the one and only in is a really nice hotel in Athens, and it was the worst experience.
• 39:50
  Michael: It was like I couldn't believe how bad this experience was.
• 39:53
  Michael: So I actually found the managing director on LinkedIn and I messaged and said, Look, I own a little business, it's not quite the size of yours, but I would want to know if someone had this kind of bad experience.
• 40:03
  Michael: And these here's everything that went wrong.
• 40:05
  Michael: Honestly, within like two minutes got an email back, I gave him my email.
• 40:09
  Michael: He was like, I'm so apologetic.
• 40:11
  Michael: He copied in his managing, manager of the resort, his other person resort, best service I've ever had after that.
• 40:18
  Michael: I don't think anyone else got any decent service.
• 40:20
  Michael: But I think it's important to share that.
• 40:21
  Michael: Um so yeah, but I think that's it's it's so right.
• 40:26
  Michael: It's it reminds me of something Steve Jobs once said, where someone said to him, you know, your Apple Mac is just so expensive and blah blah blah.
• 40:33
  Michael: He said, you know what?
• 40:34
  Michael: I want to create a product that I would be proud to give to my grandmother, to give to my family, to give to my best friend.
• 40:41
  Michael: I don't want to give them a subpar product that's cheap and just not very good, like a PC at the time.
• 40:47
  Michael: Um, I want to give them a really great product.
• 40:49
  Michael: And I think it's it's not that difficult to put yourself in the patient's shoes or in any business, right?
• 40:55
  Michael: In a customer's shoes and say, would I be happy with that experience?
• 40:59
  Michael: Would I be happy being treated in that way?
• 41:01
  Michael: And you don't need specialist coaching, although again, shout out to the hive, go and visit them, and you know, they're a great business.
• 41:08
  Michael: But um, you don't need the specialist coaching for some of those basic things, right?
• 41:12
  Michael: How do you how should someone answer the phone?
• 41:14
  Michael: Um walk into uh reception.
• 41:18
  Michael: I you know, if I'm impatient, I want to don't want to hear, yes, how can I help you?
• 41:21
  Michael: Just a little smell would be nice, right?
• 41:24
  Michael: These are these are the basics.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:27
  Michael: And I think you're right, there'll be lots more technology.
• 41:29
  Michael: We'll we'll we're gonna be doing some of this in for HMDG customers in January, actually, about um kind of implementation of kind of best practices of AI systems and systems in general, because I think it's all change next year.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's great.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: And I think we need to totally embrace it because I think it will transform businesses in a lot of ways.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's transformed already, things like high I D health for note-taking and just generally, like just general being able to kind of sift through a letter, put it in something, you know, it saves you loads of time as it is.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: But I do think that you know, the f we we're lucky to work in a profession where people still really need that face-to-face personal touch.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: And so hopefully, yeah, hopefully AI will enable us to do more of that, if almost, you know what I mean?
• 42:13
  Michael: I think so.
• 42:13
  Michael: I think there's lots of people that are getting very scared and worried about AI.
• 42:17
  Michael: Um, and I'll give you a personal example of this.
• 42:19
  Michael: So I wake up this morning, I told you this earlier, I wake up this morning, get out of bed, fall over because I got BPPV, so I've got terrible vertigo, I'm a mess.
• 42:28
  Michael: So, of course, I'm very lucky I've got access to about a billion people.
• 42:31
  Michael: So I'm like, what do I do?
• 42:32
  Michael: And they're like, there's this thing called the Epley procedure.
• 42:34
  Michael: You can do it on your own, right?
• 42:35
  Michael: You could do it, you lie down on the bed, and you know what?
• 42:38
  Michael: It was nice, I've got a physio in the house, and uh I can have someone that can do it for me or with me.
• 42:43
  Michael: And quite honestly, even though ChatGPT told me exactly how to do it and that I can do it on my own, I would have still gone to visit a physio.
• 42:50
  Michael: You know, I think there's something to having that reassurance and having someone with you, and the same with with with with podiatry.
• 42:57
  Michael: I think it's really important.
• 42:58
  Michael: So AI, I think, will help actually a lot more than hinder if you use it and embrace it.
• 43:03
  Michael: Um, I see a lot of fear-mongering, oh, there won't be any jobs left, and I think that's a nonsense.
• 43:08
  Michael: Uh people are still gonna want that face-to-face and oh yeah, I agree.
• 43:12
  Michael: And reassurance.
• 43:13
  Michael: And that real person, you know, you you want someone we can we can actually look after you and and understand what you're going through.
• 43:21
  Michael: So let's talk about quickly.
• 43:24
  Michael: Uh we don't have too much longer left.
• 43:26
  Michael: Uh talk about social media.
• 43:27
  Michael: Yeah, I love your socials, and I I think you probably are now way too busy and probably do less than you should.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I'd like to.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: No, my hope we've got we've got we've onboarded a new team member in the week in the last week, so I'm hopeful to be able to dedicate some time to it again.
• 43:44
  Michael: Your socials are interesting because they are a mix between information, fun, bit of stupidity.
• 43:50
  Michael: Um there was a good one of you and your mum in were you in Rome?
• 43:54
  Michael: Were you in Rome?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I was in Rome.
• 43:56
  Michael: Oh, is it just you?
• 43:57
  Michael: Okay.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I took my husband for his birth as a friend of me.
• 44:01
  Michael: Oh, very but it's a real mix, and I think it's a good mix because I think too many clinics they focus on the conditions and they focus on the really boring clinical stuff.
• 44:10
  Michael: But you kind of you need to see some dances.
• 44:12
  Michael: I'm disappointed I didn't see more dances.
• 44:13
  Michael: Not enough.
• 44:15
  Michael: I mean proper TikTok-y dances.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: We did one the other day a few weeks ago, I'm pretty sure.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I did one with um Hiran, who's a customer of yours, I'm pretty sure.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: We did one, there's one on there.
• 44:26
  Michael: Well, I missed I bloody missed that one, right?
• 44:28
  Michael: I'm gonna footnote patience.
• 44:29
  Michael: But what's the strategy behind it?
• 44:31
  Michael: Do is there any strategy at all?
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Or you So interestingly, because we have a a strong social media presence, and because you know, obviously I'm coming at this from a very podiatry-centric place, podiatry is a small profession.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Loads of people ask, like, why do you do it?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: And I think people think it is to get more patience, and truthfully, that that I don't get patience from there.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I I will get the odd, I would say it annually is probably like less than five percent of our patients come from social media.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: It's always very exciting when someone has ticked that on their form.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: I feel like a celebrity, it's my favorite thing that ever happens, but it doesn't happen very often.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: So a lot of the time we do it because we enjoy it.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Like, you know, I had a creative I'm a creative person.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I enjoy making things, um, I get enjoyment out of it.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Um, we have a laugh doing it.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: A lot of the time it's a nice little break when you've been doing stuff in clinic and think, oh, let's just make a let's just let's just make a TikTok for half an hour.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Um, and it's like fun and uplifting.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: It makes other people happy, which is nice as well.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Other people enjoy it.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Um, and then I remember somebody saying like a long time ago, I can't remember who it was, but like when you're trying to market online, it is it you'll know about this, like push and pull marketing.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: So you want to be doing more kind of push, maybe, but like just giving out information and giving out stuff so that and it's that no like trust thing.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: So I think because we weren't scared to talk on camera, even though I still find it cringe, guys, and I do struggle to watch my videos back time to time.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I think though, just on that as a quick sidebar, when I'm scrolling and I enjoy TikTok and social media, I find it enjoying obviously there's like downsides to it, but there's so many great little snippets of fun things.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I never look at someone talking to camera and think, how awful and cringe is that.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And never never, I just listen to what they're saying.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I don't even think about even when I watch someone's like day in the life and I know that they've set up their camera and they've like walked away and then pretended to walk past it into their clinic room.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: It's like when you go to Disney and you know that there's a person inside the you just buy into the magic, you're just there, you're like, oh my god, look, it's Vicky.
• 46:43
  Michael: So worry too much.
• 46:44
  Michael: People are just it's like listening to yourself and listening to your own voice.
• 46:48
  Michael: Everyone's like, Oh, I hate it.
• 46:49
  Michael: No one else does.
• 46:50
  Michael: It's just normal.
• 46:51
  Michael: Yeah.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you have to kind of just get over that and get on with it.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Um, but no, the strategy, the outcomes have evolved over time.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: And I think now one of the main things is it's it's great for um promoting the profession.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: So often we come very low down on the list as podiatrists as you know, where would you would go with a foot problem?
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Um, so about five years ago, when I kind of really started doing this, and it was really the rise of TikTok through COVID that kind of really pushed us on to doing it.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Um, the aim was to just promote the profession, make people think foot problem, think podiatry.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: That was the main goal.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: And then from that, I think it's turned into like a lot of the time, like it helps with recruitment.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Um, a lot of other podiatrists' followers, so that is good.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And then for the people that do consume a lot of social media, then they do search for it.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: And I don't know about you, but my feeling is that big platforms like TikTok and Instagram, but it's particularly TikTok.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: I use it as a search engine now.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I don't I use that in chat.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not going on Google as much.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not going on, I will put into TikTok, you know, how give me a give me a stretch for my shoulder, like because I know it's gonna give me a nice 30-second video and I can I can deal with that with my tiny tiny engine.
• 48:14
  Michael: It's been the case for a long time.
• 48:15
  Michael: So Google is uh is still the number one search engine, but YouTube I think is the second biggest.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: YouTube, yeah.
• 48:22
  Michael: TikTok's growing, uh Instagram's growing.
• 48:24
  Michael: If I'm looking for a nice hotel somewhere, let's say I want to go to Greece, I will go on TikTok.
• 48:29
  Michael: I will go on Instagram.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Listen, all the reasons all I the so many things that I've done with my daughter, like so many things, so many ways that I've learned to like, you know, deal with like tantrums or tips on poster training that I have learned from TikTok.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I don't have time to sit and read a book about it, I don't have time to do whatever.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: So consuming those small bites of media in that way for me have been invaluable, truly.
• 48:53
  Michael: I I think so.
• 48:54
  Michael: Generally, my stance is stay off social media for clinicians.
• 48:58
  Michael: It's uh it it generally a waste of time.
• 49:01
  Michael: People aren't searching for a physio, they're not searching for a podiatrist and so on.
• 49:06
  Michael: If you have the time to do it properly and you're willing to put the the effort in, that doesn't mean do a TikTok and then do another one in six months.
• 49:14
  Michael: It means really put time and effort into it.
• 49:17
  Michael: I think it can be really valuable for you.
• 49:19
  Michael: I think recruitment is is huge.
• 49:20
  Michael: I think your brand, amongst other clinicians, actually, other pods, it always surprises me how you two and and well and your dad um are so well known throughout the industry when you're just at a clinic in in Sheffield, right?
• 49:35
  Michael: And and everyone knows you because of your TikToks and so on and so forth.
• 49:38
  Michael: So I think that's definitely helpful with that brand.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: It has really taken off in that way massively.
• 49:44
  Michael: I don't think that um five percent.
• 49:47
  Michael: I think if I said to most clinicians you can increase your clinic codes, you can increase your throughput by five percent by doing social media, I think they'd be delighted.
• 49:55
  Michael: So five percent is a really good number, like a really, really good number.
• 49:59
  Michael: Most people, you get like one or two people a year.
• 50:02
  Michael: Like that's it.
• 50:03
  Michael: So I think it's it's definitely getting you a bit.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: I know we I definitely and and it I have to say it is more TikTok than anything else.
• 50:11
  Michael: Why do you think I I so I know the answer to this?
• 50:13
  Michael: Why do you think TikTok is better than say Insta or Facebook?
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it has some kind of I won't know, I'm making stuff up here, but the algorithm is different, right?
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Because it funnels stuff in your area to you.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Because I get it, I I get things and I'm like, how does TikTok know that about me?
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Like it's really weird.
• 50:31
  Michael: Here's why, because you're you're on it.
• 50:32
  Michael: So TikTok is a discovery platform.
• 50:35
  Michael: If you're on Instagram, I use Instagram a lot.
• 50:37
  Michael: I'm on Instagram every day, but I only really do things on there with people that I already follow.
• 50:43
  Michael: I will interact with people I follow, or I will specifically find someone to follow.
• 50:47
  Michael: It's very rare I follow new people on Instagram, whereas on TikTok, I'm on the for you.
• 50:53
  Michael: I have a following page.
• 50:54
  Michael: I don't often look at that.
• 50:56
  Michael: I normally just look at the for you, the the discoveries.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Never go on.
• 51:01
  Michael: Exactly.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Never want to see what they're doing.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Also, I just like hate the thought of my friends seeing my content as well.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: It's like just my friends send me my own stuff.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: In fact, actually, um we were at we were with the hive last week, and um one of the other clinic owners had um obviously had like a meeting with their team and they wanted they they wanted to share a bit more on social media.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: While we were literally there, one of his podiatrists sent him my video and said, I was thinking of doing something like this, and then he was like, Oh my god, I have to take a selfie with you to send to her.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, you are a proper celebrity.
• 51:36
  Michael: Yeah, um, yeah, so it's so TikTok is interesting because it does allow you to discover things really easily and the algorithms are very good.
• 51:47
  Michael: Um, I I am secretly a dance fan.
• 51:50
  Michael: Love dance.
• 51:51
  Michael: I know, it's crazy.
• 51:52
  Michael: Unfortunately, it's happen this.
• 51:53
  Michael: Should I even tell you this story?
• 51:55
  Michael: This is public as well, isn't it?
• 51:56
  Michael: So me and Hannah are on TikTok.
• 51:57
  Michael: You know how you sort of go on at six before you know it's 11 p.m.
• 52:00
  Michael: and you're like, what the fuck?
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Um it's terrible.
• 52:04
  Michael: And we see this girl, she's dancing, and she's maybe like six years old, but she's incredible.
• 52:09
  Michael: It's like modern kind of interpretive, and we're like, oh my god, this is amazing.
• 52:13
  Michael: It took me like a week to get off of little girls on TikTok.
• 52:17
  Michael: It was awful.
• 52:18
  Michael: I literally I was sat there with Hannah and I was like, I think I might have to delete my account and start again.
• 52:22
  Michael: It was so bad.
• 52:23
  Michael: But the algorithm, it just shows you the algorithm is really, really good.
• 52:26
  Michael: Um, and it was all about discovery.
• 52:28
  Michael: I saw an interesting experiment, and it was they posted the same thing on TikTok and Instagram.
• 52:32
  Michael: I've the same posts, same number of posts over the course of a month, and TikTok had like 30,000 followers, and Instagram had three or four or something.
• 52:40
  Michael: So TikTok is definitely the place to be.
• 52:42
  Michael: And I think lots of people think it is just little girls dancing, but it's not.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: It's so much bigger than that.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: We've had a lot of people say that I think they think it's a bit silly.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: I have had that from that kind of feeling from other practitioners sometimes that like just do a silly dance on TikTok, like, oh, you were like what you know, wasting your time in clinic.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: But um, I think the bigger picture and the more long-term thing is probably maybe getting a little bit overlooked there.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I I would don't know just quickly, and I don't know the ins and outs of this, but dancing with the stars in America has absolutely transformed their views and their popularity essentially through TikTok.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: It has changed everything.
• 53:24
  Michael: There are businesses, listen, for anyone that's on TikTok, check out the pool guy.
• 53:28
  Michael: The pool guy was this one little guy from Essex, and now he's got millions of followers, he's got like 20 employees, making millions of pounds.
• 53:35
  Michael: There are there's business after business after business.
• 53:37
  Michael: And for those people who say, Oh, it's just young girls on there, protect Filippo advertising on there, Range Rover advertising on on there, Rolex advertising on there.
• 53:46
  Michael: Like there are high net worth individuals, there are old, old people like me.
• 53:50
  Michael: There's lots of people, and and so the audience is definitely out there.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think that's why we'll see the rise of these people coming in.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: You know, they're already it's already happening into reality TV and stuff because you know, they've got like some of them have got three, four, five million followers.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Like that's that's insane.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Like, so yeah.
• 54:09
  Michael: Yeah, right.
• 54:09
  Michael: I'm gonna leave it because I know you've got a little one, and I've eaten into like your only free time the week.
• 54:15
  Michael: And I I genuinely, I really appreciate it.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Really enjoyed it.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 54:19
  Michael: I really appreciate you coming on.
• 54:21
  Michael: I love you guys to bits.
• 54:22
  Michael: We are gonna do some stuff on your dance stuff.
• 54:24
  Michael: I will chase up on that, uh, because I think that'd be really good.
• 54:27
  Michael: That'd be really good to do.
• 54:29
  Michael: But thank you so much for coming on and um yeah, have a have a good rest of the evening on your own without a little one.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and you know, just a quick thank you to everyone.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: The team is always so quick and amazing, and we've had yeah, we've had a great experience.
• 54:44
  Michael: Um