Latest / #BeMoreLobster / The Freedom of Wanderlust and Simplicity with Wandering Bird

Transcript

The Freedom of Wanderlust and Simplicity with Wandering Bird · #BeMoreLobster

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode of the Seeking Simplicity Podcast, I am having an amazing conversation with my guest Kat as we explore greater the essence of seeking simplicity in life.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to unravel what it means to find peace and balance amongst the chaos of modern living.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kat shares with us her journey of living on a boat, downsizing and embracing a simpler lifestyle that prioritizes intention over accumulation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to discover how there was a pivotal moment under the Milky Way in the Swiss Alps that transformed her path, leading to the birth of her popular blog, The Wandering Bird.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to learn about her adventures in Norway and Sweden, her successful transition into a solo traveller, and the importance of stepping outside of our comfort zones to find confidence and joy.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: From the challenges of living a life less ordinary to the profound impact of helping others embark on their own journeys, this episode is a testament to the power of living intentionally and courageously.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: So grab yourself a cozy spot and let's embark on this incredible journey of self-discovery and wanderlust.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I am very well, thank you.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have, as you know, we pushed this back a couple of times because I have been less well.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: But right now I'm great.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love to hear that.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so at the start of every interview, I always ask my guests what seeking simplicity means to them.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you experience or how do you sort of define seeking simplicity in your life?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love this question.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I really because I don't think it's as simple as a thing.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I for me, it's a feeling.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I do that a lot.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a lovely Spaniel who just adores walks, as most dogs do.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's in the mountains or in the woods.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's something about the scale of big trees or big vistas that just calms my soul and cools my soul, which is bizarre because having lived on a boat for about 15 years, I would have said it was the sea, but I don't get that same feeling, it's mountains of woods for me, and just being outside in that sort of environment.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that I have found gives me peace is having less stuff.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think people don't get how stressful having a lot of stuff is.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to find somewhere to store it or look after it or clean it or manage it or you know, changing over from a winter wardrobe to a summer wardrobe, which I still have got.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I like Amazon as much as the next girl.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's about being intentional.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about you can't buy stuff, you can't buy expensive things.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've got an iPhone and all these things, but it I'm intentionally choosing that and and choose not choosing other things.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's how I find sort of simplicity, it's balance.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think is probably a better word, maybe for how I look at it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love um that you went into a feeling.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we before we got on the call, we were talking about somatics, and um, you know, I'm a very felt sense kind of person, and I totally relate to that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a certain thing, and even if it is the thing, it's the feeling behind that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: We were just talking about wood burners.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, I've got to have one because the the thought of having that heat on my face and seeing the flames and then watching my food cook on top of that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my god, that for me is just heavenly.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have four miles.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds amazing.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's always room for more around my table for sure.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also having less stuff.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: It reminds me there was um, I just saw an advert for a podcast with I think it was Davina McCall, and she's interviewing a woman who had a very successful corporate career, like a 22-roomed house or something.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't listened to it yet, but she sold up everything because she said everything it was just too much stuff.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And all those things you just said, you've got to clean it, so you've got to insure it, you've got to worry about people stealing it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm interested, I'm really curious about what that where that goes.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I will listen to that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so with all that being said, I'm gonna make an assumption that you didn't necessarily you haven't always necessarily lived this sort of seeking simplicity life.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Although I'm very curious about the boats, and maybe we'll go there.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: But what was like, has there been a defining moment for you when you was like, yeah, no, I'm going all in on this concept?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and no.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So funny enough, it probably did start with the boat.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So right back in my early 20s, um, couldn't afford to buy a house, couldn't afford, and and renting a house was getting prohibitive as well.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so my well, he would was becoming my husband at the time.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we bought a very small boat to live on, and it literally was 22 foot.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: My motorhome now is bigger than the boat that we lived on full time for about two years.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, it was tough.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm nearly six foot, I could not stand up in the thing, but it was all we could afford, and that in itself, when you live in a small space, you adjust and have the stuff to fill the small space, and then obviously we got a bit more money, so we upgraded that boat to a slightly bigger boat, and then eventually upgraded that to a quite a big boat, but even so it was still a boat, and so you compare, you know, it was a three-bed boat compared to a three-bed house, it wasn't even close to being the same amount of stuff.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we lived like that for about 15 years, and then we had good jobs.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was an air traffic controller.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my husband at the time, you know, he worked away and did a lot of stuff in computing.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Don't ask me what, it gets complicated and I can't explain it all.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, we had good jobs, we made good money, but we're still happy with our life on the boat, and we loved the fact we felt a little bit smug, I have to say, about the fact that we didn't have to pay mortgages and we didn't have to look after this huge property and this huge garden and everything else because our garden was the sea and the and that was magic.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I loved that, and that in itself allowed us to spend money on other things, so eventually we bought a motorhome and went travelling and motorbikes and all the fun stuff, and I think that led then to probably well, there were two big moments that I can think of.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: The first one was our very, very first motorhome trip to Europe, and we're camped up in the motorhome at the top of one of the Swiss Alps, and I literally walked outside pitch black, um, about 10 o'clock at night, and there was just the Milky Way.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, have you ever actually seen the Milky Way?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: A long time ago, yeah, yeah.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I never had, and so I was 34, I think, at the time, and I was like, How have I never seen it?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing, when it's that clear in the sky, it's breathtaking.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, How many more things are there in the world that I have not had the opportunity to see?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've had to be a woman, or I've had to do this, or raise a kid, or whatever.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I said at the time, I want to do more of this.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: How can we rearrange our life to do more of this?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most people have had that kind of oh, I want to give everything up and go travelling or do whatever.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we did the fun thing of all the way home, because that was literally our last day up in Switzerland.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: We were driving back to the UK the next day.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So all the way home, we sort of analysed our life, and it turned out it was basically my job as an air traffic controller.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: They tend to like you being in the ops room rather than sort of remote working and things.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those problems you really gotta be on the yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was because he, because of the work he does, would actually be quite remote.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it was my job that was the problem.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you don't leave a job like that, it's secure, it's basically government-backed, then you're never gonna get sacked unless you do something horrendous, tough work.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you don't leave a job like that.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's insane.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Except for the fact that I was sort of thinking about it, and then I was thinking, no, really, I've worked my butt off, I've done it for 13 years, you know, I've got up to a certain level on it all.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we were sitting, the next defining moment was about a month or two later.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were sitting in the option break room, if you like, at work, and we started having this whole, oh, I want Christmas off.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you worked Christmas last year.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I haven't worked over this, and I've got kids, and you haven't got young kids.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we were just having the same fight or the same discussion as you did every single year.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I had just read a quote by I think it's Robin Sharmer, and this quote changed my life.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Don't live the same year 75 times and call it a life.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'll be honest, I kind of read it and just I mean, I I thought, oh yeah, no, that's nice, and carried on with my day.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And sitting in that option break room, it just flashed through my head like I've done this for the past 13 years, and it has been the same conversations, the same fight to get the same days off, the same disappointment when you can't get it off, the same fight for the school holidays, the same.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And although you might do different things or go to different places, it's the same cycle.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I most people have that cycle, absolutely they do.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I suddenly thought I don't want to do this anymore.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I certainly don't want to do it for the next 20 years until retirement.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which made all the conversations that we'd had previously about perhaps leaving my work, downsizing our life to live off his wage for a while till I found something else I wanted to do.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: All of that sort of came up.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I just decided there, and then I was done.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna figure out how well I was gonna leave my job and go traveling.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Which I did.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so much in there.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I I recognize that um that quote, and you're right.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I think lots of people do have that because, like we said at the beginning, either they don't feel like they have a choice or because it hasn't even been an option.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this before we got on the call, and I was thinking about like when we're younger, when we're at school, we're taught to learn, we're not taught to think.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we get asked all the time as kids, oh, what do you want to be when you grow up?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not what not what do you want to do?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you want to go?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: What would be like your dream?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you want to be as if being something, as in a firefighter or a nurse, or like that's the Bill and Endle, that's what we're here to do.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't know if it's just because it's the area that I'm in now, but I'm certainly seeing a lot of people doing similar things to you, like going off-rid, buying homesteads, you know, all the things because they want to break themselves out of that incessant mundane cycle, um, you know, and actually dive into something else.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um, just for the for the uh listeners' pleasure, um, I will tell just tell them how I found you.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh my husband and I have um messed around between um we started off with a tent and very quickly became not a tent kind of person.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we bought a what did we buy next?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think then we bought a caravan and we had that for a year, and then I got bored of it being in the same place because I didn't want to tow it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then we bought a little VW, but it was too small, like you say.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: My husband's like over six foot and he couldn't stand up, and it was all too squishy for me.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: We went back to a tent and then we um so I think this was uh towards it, maybe like autumn time last year, and me and my husband had just got our tent up, and then all these motorhomes started coming in.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: We thought we'd have the pit the whole camping site to ourselves because of the time, I think it was like October, and then all these cambervans started.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, and then and then and so the and the guy had said to us who put us on our pitch, oh, there's a there's a woman coming, and she's she's got like 10 motorhomes that come in with her, and they're all going on this little trip to Europe or something.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I don't know if we overheard you talking, or you might have actually spoken to my husband.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at that moment, as you all rocked up and you all just opened your doors, got your chair out, and got a glass of wine or a cup of coffee, and me and Gary are still trying to put the pegs in.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, I can't do this anymore.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so curious about what you told my husband, or maybe we'd overheard you, I can't remember now, but I just started to stalk you on Facebook, like literally there and then, there and then.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I hadn't even at that point decided to restart a podcast.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when I did, I thought, what better?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're actually my first guest.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what better way than you know going to the lady who inspired me to go, sod it, let's just go buy another, because we have we have actually now bought another camper van, which I'm now doing up.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: She'll have her own Instagram page, so I'll let you know when that's done.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it just when I reached out to you and you started telling me a bit more about what you do and how you how your decision has evolved to where you are now, I just found it so inspiring.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So could you share some of that inspiration?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think one of the things that holds people back is they want to have some certainty in their decision and they want to feel like, okay, well, you know, year one's gonna be this and year two is gonna be this.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the assumption that I'm making is you let it be sort of quite an organic evolution and you kind of just let things grow.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So could you tell people you know how what how what that looked like and what you're doing now?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely I can.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: The funny thing about all of that is that I am not an evolution, let it be kind of person.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am a planner.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do we make this happen?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that happened when I started this is I had no intention of starting a blog and certainly not a business and everything else.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: It happened in baby steps.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the thing that holds people back a lot now, exactly like you say, is they don't know what's going to happen in the future.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a couple of sides to that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing is none of us know what's going to happen in the future.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know people who have literally worked till their retirement day and have got really ill, or perhaps even worse, a year or two afterwards.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't always have the retirement time that you hope that you will have after you've worked so hard your whole life.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's very easy to say, well, you know, leave work early.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know not everybody can do that, nobody can afford to do that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I and I am so appreciative of the privilege that I was able to do that, and we were able to downsize, and my husband had a steady job that could be done from pretty much anywhere.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I it gave me the freedom to leave my job and then figure out what I wanted to do next.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because I never left work with the intention of never working again, and that's still the case.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I still say that now.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have my own business and and it's been I'm so thankful the fact that it's been fairly successful.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it that might change in a couple of years and I might go back and get a proper job, who knows?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that definitely over the past, well, I left work in 2018, so what's that, seven years?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much more willing to just see what the world throws at me or what you know fate or whatever you call it might might throw in my path.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've also got a lot more open to other suggestions that I'd never thought of.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um stupidly.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: So um, literally three months ago, somebody recommended somebody that I should follow on Instagram.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I followed them on Instagram, I loved the kind of thing they were saying.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about blogging and business and stuff.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um a month after that, she announced a mastermind.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I joined her blogging group.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow I'm going to Vienna.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Totally spur of the moment thing that I wouldn't have done seven years ago.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I'm much more open to those sorts of things being thrown up and saying yes a lot more, whereas perhaps I didn't do much and changing my course.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just to give you a sort of rundown on how it started.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I literally I only meant to be off work for a year, and I initially asked for a year sabbatical from from Nats, where I used to work, and they were just messing me around.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't ever commit to when I could start it, if I could have a whole year, if it would only be a few months, all this stuff.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So in the end, I was just like, you know, stop it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna quit.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um got about four letters afterwards going, please come back, please come back, like that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, in my brain, I was like, well, you know, I might just travel for a few months and then you know, go back or do something else or go back to work at something else.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is, this coach has shown you what my brain's like two months, it sounds idyllic, doesn't it?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's quit your job and go traveling.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Two months in, I was bored, out of my brain.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I needed more than just where should we go today?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, the pressure of trying to make the most of this incredible opportunity that I'd been given of having that freedom.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I found it so stressful.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it sounds awful, oh woe is me, having to decide where to go.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I actually found it like I can't have a day off, I can't lie in bed and read a book because what a waste of the gift that I've been given.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't live like that every single day and moving every day and trying to make, I mean, always make the most of every single day, but trying to cram as much as into it as you can.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I found that really quite ah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually um I started this little website like today.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: We went here and we, you know, went here for coffee and we did this, and that was Wandering Bird.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just literally like a daily blog of what we were doing, and it just became huge and very popular and great.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even realise for about a year that you could monetize these things, like it was so far outside my realm of experience.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know you could put adverts on a website and get some money from it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that was how it started, and then um it's just grown from there.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So now I've written several books.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've been a main speaker at the NEC show, God knows how many times now, loads and plenty of other shows as well.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I love it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And my favourite thing Yeah, it's I love the travel and I love the opportunities I've had, but my favorite, favorite thing about it is getting emails from people, which I'm lucky enough to get on a weekly basis going, I've just bought a camper van because of you, I've just gone here, and especially as a solo because now my marriage has ended and I travel a lot on my own.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: As a solo woman, that was terrifying.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely terrifying.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the number of solo women who either their partner has passed away or their marriage is broken down, or the partner doesn't even want to come, or they don't have a partner, and you know, they're just like, ah, and they've found the confidence through watching me do it to go and have their own adventures, and that for me just fills up my soul.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I that is just there are so many things that I love in there.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and so I'm gonna just if I can just share a couple of just throw back at you a couple of things I I love the most.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I loved how you said the excuse me, the pressure of making the most of every day.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you know, as you know, the other side of my my business is sort of high performance coaching.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's that, there's there's kind of like a belief that high performance coaching is about doing more and having more and achieving more, and it never sat well with me.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted people to live more and to be more themselves and to do more of the things that made them happy, and it's you know, surprisingly enough, it that has been harder to sell than make more money, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Which is bizarre because why do people want to make more money?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because they want more, you know, because they want to feel more things, but they anyway, that's buy the buy.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's interesting because I have a conversation regularly with my friend about the sort of conditioned response we have.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of women my sort of age, where we feel like we have to be busy all the time, and that if we're we god forbid we're reading a book in the afternoon.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my mum's eight to two, and she says, Oh no, I don't have time to read.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Mum, you've got like literally all day now, and she keeps herself busy, which is great, but what an archaic thing that it's almost like we have to deserve joy, and yet you're flipping it over, talking about the the you know, this this pressure to make the most of every day because otherwise you're squandering this gift that you've been given, even though you and your husband were courageous courageous enough to make that happen and and step out of the comfort zone.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So kudos to you for doing that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing that I want to speak to, because I used to do a lot of coaching with small business owners, and this incessant noise in our head about having to do it all and having to know exactly what we're doing and having to have your five-year plan, and you're sitting here as living, breathing proof that some things just happen if you just keep following your joy, and you know, and you follow my friend calls them nudgies, she's actually just like calling yeah, nudges and beanies, she calls them, but just following those little that little trail of oh, you know, like what if, or I could be curious about this, or you know, so and look where you are.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got so you said Wandering Bird was how the blog started, is that correct?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a website, and you just you so can you also tell people?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you you've said about your business being successful, so I'm guessing you monetized your blog and you've written the books and you've done speaking, but you also tell people how you help people their own trips more specifically because Gary and I are looking at doing the NC500 this year, so I have looked at your website.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, can you just tell people what it you know another branch that you that you reached out to start doing?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I mean, I have a couple of ways that I would help people, for example, do the NC500.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I have created some.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: um in-depth planners like road trip planners and they've got points along the routes and things that you can do and it's one of the again you know this this when you come at the as somebody who's got a week off work or two weeks off work you want to know exactly where you're going to stop and exactly how your car you're going to drive and and what exactly what road you're going to take and in my planners I try and explain look all of these points are here all these places are here but you cannot physically do all of that in a week or two weeks.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So what you then have to do exactly like you said at the beginning over we're not taught to think is okay so what of those things are really important?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: People find planning a road trip so stressful.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually doing um a workshop on it in a couple of weeks because it's one of the things that causes so many fights of between couples or just anxiety if you're doing it on your own because you're like well I you know we've got to cram all this stuff in and don't get me wrong I used to be the same you know it's such a common not an error but a common way of thinking and actually if you just pick a few points like a few key like I've just come back from seven weeks doing Sweden and Norway which was amazing you've never been you have to go absolutely amazing and I had two goals that entire trip seven weeks two things I wanted to do one was to drive up to Nordcap which is right at the very top of Norway and then the other one was see the northern lights over the van and actually because we all saw the northern lights over the whole of the UK earlier in the year number one before I'd even stepped up I was like I've won goal.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah that that is something that I try and get people to understand is that you will have so much more fun on your adventures if you leave a bit of room for curiosity or exploration or even just it's raining and cold outside so I'm gonna sit in here and read a book or whatever.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: People like I can't do that on my holiday.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But that's part of the relaxing and the change of scenery and everything.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I've literally just in the last few months started up my membership group which the people that or some of the people that you saw me with at the campsite in September.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we have loads of things that but one of the biggest things I help them with is planning their road trips.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of my superpowers that I never even knew I had was finding cool places to visit or helping people pick the routes or where they're going to stay and all this stuff.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we do that in the membership so they can literally come on one of the live calls and I can help them sort out their itinerary.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then we started doing some of these live trips where I'm sort of taking them across to Europe so that they can build their confidence and stuff.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what a lot of this is it's confidence.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of those things that's easy to talk about but not so easy to gain.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely because because it's like you know confidence is relying on you having the courage to step out in the first place and do those new things and you know we've talked about how um you know you've gone from somebody who sort of maybe planned and was quite meticulous and and you know had that sort of that human need for certainty and you've kind of almost gone the other way and like allowed yourself to be a little bit more sort of guided perhaps you know using that passion as as that guiding force.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: So one I'm and I'm always a little bit curious so we've talked a lot about like what the what the simplicity means to you are there some sort of like things because going back to what you said about feeling and um I sometimes feel like we're people can become quite disconnected from how something in particular can make you feel so talking about these people that you work with that are playing a trip you know they're planning a trip because they probably want to feel excitement and they want to have the buzz of seeing new places or like you know the sunset over the lock or you know whatever it is.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my big pieces of work is really trying to get people to tap into that somatic experience like what's going on in your body because if we can define that then we can ask ourselves like you said or how you I think you gave a lovely question you and your husband how can I love this how can we rearrange our life to do more of this I love that question.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put that question in my journal tonight.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: But you know I always ask myself when I was sort of coming out of the grief stage with my dad and I just I was just literally just re-entering life and I was asking myself what can I do that's going to make me feel a little bit better today?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: What's something that that might bring me a little bit of joy and so for me I don't know making sourdough is something that really feels simple because it's rustic it's earthy it's grounding so have you got any sort of thing that you like to do what you recognise creates these feelings inside of yourself and what would those feelings be that you like?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a brilliant question and I think I think most people would probably say the feelings will change based on on what they're doing and I think that's the same for myself.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fascinating my marriage ended oh three years ago now although we're still still coming out of the divorce phase at the moment because we had a year or two of just thinking it all through um but at the time I'd never driven our motorhome and so I've had three motorhomes.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: The first one we only had for a very short period of time and my husband drove it because I wasn't quite confident enough to drive it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: The next one was over three and a half tons so my license didn't allow me to drive it anyway and I meant to do my C one and then we ended up selling that motorhome to get a smaller one.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then that one we just fell into pink and blue jobs of he drove I navigated and planned and and did all that kind of stuff and I ended up when we we separated and as all marriages ended an enormous fight and um I ended up on a campsite he'd driven the van to this campsite and then disappeared and I was stuck on this site too scared to drive the motorhome anywhere else for three and a half weeks I was petrified of crashing this van of just ah just everything.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was even worse in some ways because I had suddenly built up this business about traveling in a motorhome.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: So people I mean don't get me wrong I'm not like Davina McCall on the campsite but a few people knew who I was and I didn't want to take out the side of the freaking building or something with the motorhome.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did you know what I did?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the only way that I could think in my brain to rationalise it was to if you've been on a campsite have you seen the two little posts that they put on either side of your pitch where I had to remove one of those because I couldn't figure out how to get the van round it I took it out pulled the van out put it back in again at five o'clock in the morning when everybody else was asleep and the roads were really quiet and I just practiced and I went out and that gave me I mean don't get me wrong I was terrified for about half an hour and then I was like oh actually it's just like a big car.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the feeling of confidence that I got from that is something that I have chased ever since.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: So from there it went to driving up to Scotland all by myself.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Admittedly I was I was supposed to go with a friend and her van got damaged so she couldn't go.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it was one of those well I either don't go and this was the feeling that I had at the end of the match I either stop traveling or I just balls up and and go on my own.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: That feeling of confidence is something that has grown so much over the past three years.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm not one of these sort of burning bra women can do everything we don't need men kind of people I've got a new partner and and I'm very happy and my life has changed in ways that I wouldn't have considered like I'm in a house right now where three years ago I I lived with my van for three years.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I am so passionate about but building that confidence and that feeling inside yourself that you are and you are strong and you're so much stronger than you think you are but we don't always give ourselves the space to prove it to ourselves and we don't always give ourselves the challenges to my daughter is in um university at the moment she's studying law and she I know yeah I'm so proud of her but she has been given the opportunity to go and do a um semester swap with in America.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow so she's gonna go semester in America um in an American college and obviously somebody from there is coming over her here she's absolutely she flies out in three days she's absolutely petrified but she's doing it and I am so so proud of her because it doesn't really matter how it goes the fact that she's gonna get on a plane go to a foreign country go to a foreign school system on her own I'm not going with her dad's not going with her she's literally going on her own she'll be met at the other side by somebody from the college and she's just gonna do it but how many people saw that advertised in her uni and went that's too scary I can't do that and I think one thing that we don't do very often as humans is say yes enough even if it's terrifying and I think that opened the world up to these feelings of confidence and excitement and possibility that we perhaps don't always get otherwise.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love that a lot then I feel like I I need to get my hanky out and like start giving you a standing ovation.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: But no true and you know what's really serendipitous and you're doing some the somatic stuff and you're hearing me talking a lot about synchronicities and um in the free book club we're just we're coming towards a tail end of reading a book called the 10 human drives which are the charge the 10 human drives that make us feel alive and you've just given me like three or four of those just in your conversation piece there and you mentioned about you know we we don't give ourselves the challenge you know and you also talked about earlier on you talked about how it just feeds your soul when you get this email from someone saying look I did this for myself and that you know that's your contribution to the world you have had an impact on somebody else's life and you've clearly been an influence on your daughter because she's going to go and do this the same thing.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it is in the it's in the the bravery of the act more than the outcome isn't it that we we generate that level of confidence and um you know I I relate to that when I went out and did my coaching like I I'm really not a good flyer and back then this was 2018 I'm I've gotten off planes before now and they're just before the took off because I was like no I can't do it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I flew all the way to Arizona to do my coaching certification.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember landing and like bursting into tears because I was so proud of myself that I'd done something that I really really really was petrified of doing because I wanted the other I wanted what was on the other side.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know I hope that somewhere along the conversation today somebody has been able to say okay I can be bold and I can take on the challenge and I don't need to know exactly how it's going to turn out because you know cat's a good example of trusting a process but also I don't know who this was it might have been Stephen Bartlett on a podcast.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember now but he said there are two types of decisions.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's like the A decisions and the B decisions and the B decisions I'm paraphrasing are like the door closes there's no coming back from it.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: He said but so few decisions are B decisions.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Most of them it's just you know okay I could go back if I wanted to or I could take a step sideways and just go on a linear pathway.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know and I feel like that's perhaps one of the things that constrains us the most is thinking within the parameters that we've always had and we've always been shown and what society says it stops us actually really questioning what is it in our life that we want more of and if we want more freedom you know using your question how do I how do we rearrange our life to create more of that and for some people it might be the the weekly the four weekly trips or the two week trip.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's but also from my perspective I'd be saying to my clients but what about on the everyday how can you how can you give yourself that in the everyday and I think as a business owner I mean God you're putting yourself under challenge every day whether you like it or not I think um and you know it's like get confident or die.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's basically the answer to running a small business um so I think that's amazing and on I'm gonna just ask you one last question.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got is there an idea that you would be working towards now or what we or what what is something you would like to happen next in an ideal world is a really good question.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am still a work in progress in in myself and in my business and I think the biggest thing that I'm working towards at the moment is better balance.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So as you just alluded to running your own business um is hard work and it's not just a case of plugging in a Zoom call and having a podcast it's all of the the emails and the marketing and the social media and the YouTube videos and the billion and one other things that I didn't even think you just don't see the behind the scenes of it all until sort of you're in it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like anything if I'd known that that would be sort of the mountains and the things that I've had to either climb or go round or whatever if you look at it as a big picture I've been like it's too overwhelming.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully I didn't know all that was coming down the road.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think yeah definitely balanced because I probably work way too much.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again the problem with having your own business you know to to be very clear I'm so grateful that it has been as as successful as it has but you feel guilty every time you take a day off every time you do and you know I'm one of my favourite books came out today I've been waiting for this book to come out for nine months and I have been looking at it it's there on my Kindle going really want to read it I really want to read it but I can't because it's a Tuesday and Tuesday is a work day I work for myself for a reason.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Come on Catherine um but you know it's that balance that I'm working on at the moment.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me that's the biggest thing is is you know taking weekends off or evenings off or days off to read a really good book in a series that I'm reading.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know you you can feel I don't know what the word is more aligned maybe that's probably a really good doing it between the the biggest thing that I think of when I'm I'm doing stuff now is time versus money.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a very deliberate choice that we all need to make that I don't think people spend enough time thinking about stupid things that I uh now that I have a house again with my partner one of the conditions I had when we got a house because his kids live with us as well so it's a three bad house is I want a cleaner because for the two a week that it would take me to clean the house I can do so much more productive stuff on my business.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that was one of the the choices is time versus money.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: I could outsource a part of my business to do that but I rather do that and then outsource something like the cleaning.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now my mum thinks I'm ridiculous because I'm home all the time or you know well I'm I'm home all the time why aren't you cleaning it yourself?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and she cannot fathom the waste in her word of money it is to have a cleaner when I'm here and I could do it myself.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: But that's my choice it's time versus money.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes and and I think people either are guilted into not doing that and guilted in especially women we're so bad for this you know my mum if you make a lasagna and use a a you know a a sauce out of a can or a thing oh you can make it from scratch how do you not have to make it from scratch just go have done it it's it's this mindset and I knew a long time ago that I am not the kind of person that is particularly bothered by having an amazing house.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I like having a nice car which I don't at the moment but you know that's something I want to work towards is having a nice car again.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: But that the big house and the the thing doesn't is not something that's important to me but it is to other people.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing but then they have to realize that to have that they have to perhaps give up expensive holidays or the ability to leave work five years early or everything's a choice and everything's a trade-off.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and it's being intentional about that trade-off I think is something that I'm still working towards and and hope to continue working towards yeah I think it's you know and and also in that whole conversation you know you've made it very clear sort of like what you value you know and I think that's important.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: We see we you know I do think that we've we've we've gotten misaligned with actually what's really true for us and to us because of social media and what we think we should look like and what we think we should be doing and all the pressure you know of you know needing to be this kind of like amazing mum doing the school runs baking the cakes for the I was never a cake baker for my kids they got and bought from the shop you know like making outfits for them for World Book Day you know I didn't bother all the things and and also as we as we mature if you want to use that word you know we go from from our maiden to our wild woman to our wise woman I think we can ground into that a bit more so I love cooking I would buy I am on your mum's side I'm I'm making my lasagna thing from scratch um and I'm very into how much organic food can I buy but it means that I might buy less and I bulk it out.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's there it is that whole thing and being able to just be like this is me.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's important to me and this might change it might not and you know that whole time money thing I you know I I totally get it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: We we moved from quite a bigger house to a like a tiny house when we moved to be near my mum and um you think I'd do more housework I absolutely don't I leave it for as long as humanly possible before I do any housework I just throw it places.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think you've I really believe that you have gifted the the listeners some really good food for thought.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: You've certainly wept my whistle for my uh our our first road trip whenever we get around to doing that.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know and I and I feel like just you know in terms of that sort of that balance that you're seeking something that came up for me ahead of because obviously we booked this way before Christmas and it we just kept putting it off for various reasons.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was having a conversation with a friend this week thinking about social media and I was like you know what it made me realize as I thought about this podcast and that the podcast is called Seeking Simplicity that I haven't been putting that into my social media.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten myself so you from a thematic point of view I've fallen back in an old shape of let me get some stuff out on social media let me talk about this specific thing but I haven't bought the the the the concept of seeking simplicity to that so I'm all for taking an afternoon off to read a book with several cups of coffee that's totally my jam but it's taken me a really long time to to find the permission if you like to do that and and and also the the confidence to know that it's not going to have a negative impact.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually going to have a positive impact by me following my own my own concept I'm teaching.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: So here's your permission slip to definitely go get that Kindle out and grab yourself a crew and treat yourself to a couple of hours of reading and I will make sure that I put all of your links in the show notes that people know where to come find you and if you're um yeah just go check out the stuff because I I find your posts fascinating and even just reading them can kind of like what you whistle for what is actually out there for us if we want to kind of like start that little adventure and go see different parts it's world out there.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: It really is so thank you so much Kat for being here have an amazing trip in Vienna and good luck to your daughter and I hope to see you again soon thank you Louise right let me turn that off and remember if you would like to join in more conversations like this on a daily basis please do head over to join my free my free Facebook group Seeking Simplicity.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: As part of that Facebook group I have a free book club and we meet every Wednesday night in Zoom 7pm UK time and we just take time to connect and to converse sometimes we talk about the book sometimes we're just chewing the cud, getting some coaching, talking about things that have come up for us through the week because it's community first, book club seconds.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: So come join us today