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#500: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | Bounteous on the Shifts Redefining Customer Loyalty · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, this is AJ Schneider from Loyalty360, welcoming you to another edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty Industry Voices podcast.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: In these episodes, we talk to the leading agencies, technology partners, and consultants in brand loyalty about the technology, trends, and best practices driving unique experiences, engagement, and ultimately customer loyalty.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is part of our 2026 trend series, where we're talking about what patterns and best practices we're likely to see in the upcoming year.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're speaking with Ellen Green, Vice President of Loyalty Strategy at Bountiest, a digital transformation consultancy that helps brands unlock growth by connecting data, technology, and customer experience to drive measurable business outcomes.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Ellen.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, AJ.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, this being uh kind of our trends edition and looking back uh on the past year so we can kind of talk about what we're gonna see in the future.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um what would you say were some of the uh the consumer behaviors or market conditions that had the biggest influence on how loyalty strategies have been designed or how they've evolved over that past uh 2025 year?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um it's interesting because a lot of areas of evolution in 2025 actually tie together.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one that's not going to be a surprise to anybody is consumer spending and the cut, the cutbacks that happened, the rising cost of goods that have challenged brands, um, but it also made customer loyalty and retention more important than ever.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, brands are having to increase prices to keep up, which is having a huge impact on a lot of the spend-based loyalty models, making rewards more expensive, really forcing brands on like pulling back on promised discounts, which can get kind of tricky.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we've been helping a lot of brands kind of navigate that evolution and how they bring more value to the relationship beyond discounts.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think another one is really like expectations from consumers around earning value more quickly.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they aren't really willing to wait to see value and not only like see it, but like feel value from brands.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like that feel has been become key as far as like building relationships.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is really compounded because Gen Z has emerged too, is this core audience that all of these brands are trying to vie for their attention, but it's not easy, you know, they're scrolling fast, brands really need to pop and do even more to grasp their attention.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and everything really needs to be like shareable or really personable to matter, which kind of dovetails into that notion of like the rise of personalization, which we all know isn't new, but I think with AI, it's now more attainable than it ever has been before.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: You you mentioned um engagement.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and uh let me play off that just for a second.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things, maybe it's just me as a consumer, but I've always found to be interesting and you know on the consumer side, but difficult on the on on the you know the brand side uh is how do you stay engaged?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge of staying engaged with somebody um outside of the specific product or service that you're selling, right?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm Taylor Swift, people care about what I'm saying because I'm Taylor Swift, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as company XYZ, most of the time, I'm not as a consumer, I'm I don't really care what you have to say about these other issues.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's really very focused on the product or service in hand.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do how do you advise people, you know, to stay, you know, what are the what are the engagement strategies that that you know don't feel um uh like you're pushing it too much?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think one is kind of coming up with some different, you know, content or just ways to, you know, keep the brand relevant.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like one of the clients we work with is um Wawa and we run like their social media.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And while convenience stores are like a very, you know, high transaction business, you know, not all of their consumers are coming all the time, but the way that they approach things from like a social media perspective and really looking at like what is like relevant and hot going on in the market and like tailoring the content in that way, I think has been really successful.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of finding the right marriage between like what's right for your brand and then what consumers care about too, and like bringing those together in the right ways.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe that's a good kind of a good segue into the next question.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of of how companies, your clients, for example, are are adjusting their their programs or should be adjusting their programs, when you when you're doing an assessment, let's say for a brand new client, what are the kind of the clues that tell you, ooh, um, this needs a complete overhaul versus just some tweaking?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, are there some specific things that really stand out when you look at a program that go, okay, this is this is not going the right direction?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the big things is like when we see what I call like the foundation is broken, it's time for an overhaul.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when that core value proposition doesn't support customer needs or business objectives, then typically we're doing more than improving like reward strategy or communication strategy or recognizing best customers or really improving like that end-to-end overall experience.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So like we have a loyalty framework that we use to score brands across like nine different pieces of criteria, and typically when we see like brands score lower than a 20 out of 45 points, it usually indicates that like the foundation's broken and we're not just making like incremental changes and evolving.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think one of the more common ones that we see these days is like the discount rate being too high.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've helped numerous brands solve this problem.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, one of the ones that comes to mind at the moment is um like coffee, bean, and tea leaf.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So like they came to us and said, wow, our discount rate is um really blown out of proportion.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're like the highest discount rate in the market beyond our competition.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can we pull back without upsetting our best customers?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so for us, it's more about creating value throughout the relationship, making those best members feel special, um, giving like all of their members more flexibility and choices in the way that they're rewarded, and kind of optimizing the discount rate accordingly.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, doing some things that are like extra special for those best members.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we see that seamless experiences are really important from a member perspective.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So offering things to like some of their higher tier members, like just like preloading free drinks to them, just that they can take advantage of something that like their competition isn't doing that just makes people feel rewarded in unique ways.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and is that from a you know, kind of evolving your your program standpoint and and and a strategy standpoint, do you is it really getting down to looking at the let's say you're in the same space as uh you know, as a competitor, is it looking at what they're doing and very specifically saying, okay, we have to do something completely different than than what the competitors are doing.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So in in my mind, it's like three different things.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what does your customer that interacts with your brand care about?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's number one.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is like where your business goals lie and like making sure they meet those.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then like what's unique and differentiated from your brand and like playing off of those three things together, I think, are what makes like effective loyalty strategies work really well.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I know um we actually had a different coffee client come to us and they're like, well, why can't we just copy Starbucks program?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because their program is really successful and it's been in market all these years and it really works.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, you aren't Starbucks.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have, you know, tens of thousands of locations, you have much smaller locations.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's things that really make your brand special.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why consumers choose you is different from the reason that they're choosing Starbucks.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't want to go and copy them.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: You want to do something that's unique to you, and that's gonna make your customers love you even more.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: You you had mentioned earlier um the the concept of of sort of uh time to value and and that measurement.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's a really important concept right now because again, as you mentioned, you know, when I sign up as a consumer for a new program, that's the first thing I'm thinking, how much money do I have to spend?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: How many transactions do I have to do?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: How much time has to go by before I start deriving value from this program?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things that the the um uh the consultation that you guys are doing with your clients on on that specific issue?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some best practices that are emerging?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some new sort of like rules of thumb that say if it's not, you know, if the consumer isn't deriving value by X amount of time, you know, then you're doing it wrong.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um talk a little bit about that.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so for us, like I agree.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think consumers do do the math and they do a lot of the calculations.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the way that we like to approach it is like creating meaningful moments from like the start of the relationship.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the key can be like early recognition that reinforces like belonging, um, and also looking at ways outside of programmatically to deliver value early.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, like a few brands that I think do this really well are one, um, like Camp Gladiator.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, like when you sign up, you get assigned a coach, and that coach is like your motivator and they help encourage you to get involved.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, they celebrate whenever you're checking in or attending workouts.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're all of your progress is tracked through the digital experience, and like within that experience, you're getting recognized for like early milestones, and then you get all of these recognition for like bigger ones with gifts for like t-shirts and things like that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So once you've completed like your first 50 workouts, they're giving you a t-shirt.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you've gotten all of these little micro recognition along the way, or more from like the retail side of things, like backcountry.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So their whole thing is you know, loyalty is reinforced through helpfulness, not discounts.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you get a gearhead expert that's available early on in the relationship, all of your educational content is tailored to your experience level.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like very personalized from the get-go.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think even like very simple ways, like using like zero-party data capture strategies within onboarding to ask customers a question and then deliver personalized value real time based on their response is like an easy, quick win to be able to like instantly build trust and value that kicks off the relationship in a really strong manner.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely not kind of a one-sized fits-all uh scenario.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, gotcha.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and I imagine that some of the the the um the emerging technologies that are helping uh to achieve that are are within the AI uh sphere at the moment.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, as as AI sort of continues to become more prevalent, we're seeing, you know, just as when you thought you've you you've heard the last possible story you could hear about AI or a new story, whatever, there that just keeps on going and going and going.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um what are the the best use cases that you've seen uh for AI that kind of fit into what you were just saying?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I imagine directly into that personalization arena, but are there some that that that stand out to you?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lot of loyalty use cases out there that used to be hard to achieve.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So like we have a growth marketing maturity model that we use with clients.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a lot of those, the a lot of these strategies actually were on level five out of five.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like as we work with brands to map out like where they are today versus where they want to go, you know, a lot of brands don't choose level five because of the level investment needed to get there.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what once was really hard, you know, now is attainable for brands.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we really work with clients to help maximize the value of their technology.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of technologies out there now easily enable things like you know, next best action for customers, predictive churn, even looking at like proactive recognition for retention or optimizing offers and even benefits to ensure brands are only offering like the minimum effective dose rather than like over-discounting or over-rewarding.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like as a strategist, I'm always helping brands prioritize these use cases as the right customer data and the right technology exist to do to so, making helping them achieve marketing maturity and results a lot sooner than they used to be able to before this existed.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's an interesting point.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a step back on that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, what you're describing is is already um uh supposes that the that the client, your client in question has certain capabilities or access to um, you know, uh programmers w within that AI technology space and so on.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: But when you look at the breadth of your clients or you know, new clients that are coming on board, um are most of them, you know, do they have the capability to to begin uh implementing this stuff?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and and what are the gaps that you're seeing in organizations?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um is it is it uh talent gap where they don't have people who are up to speed yet uh on uh on AI technology itself?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, where where where are you seeing the the um the pitfalls there for folks?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one of the places that we like to start is one, maximizing the value of their existing technology.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of like, for instance, like the marketing automation tools of the world, like the braces, or even like some of the loyalty technologies, like the capillaries of the world.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have some of these things that are like innately within their systems.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of start by maximizing the value of those.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we also have essentially like models around like digital transformation and AI readiness to have conversations with customers from that perspective too.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, there's there's several different gaps that we see.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like one is like cultural readiness.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, does the organization think in a way that they're able to like like act on and learn from AI and adapt?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think another piece is like the data infrastructure.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And while it doesn't need to be um perfect, it needs we need to know like where the solid data exists versus where it doesn't, um, so that AI can personalize and predict effectively because it's not really going to work without a solid data foundation.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think another key is like ownership, like who owns what, like who's making the decisions and who also owns like the protection of the organization and the customer.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, like even when you do know who owns it, oftentimes there's like fear or reluctance in making letting AI like make the decisions, um, which can slow things down and kind of lean back into that cultural readiness.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think like talent is another one.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, AI is changing so fast it's hard to keep up.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I know a lot of agencies are training, you know, talent as quickly as possible because they see so much value in it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know one of the leaders in our company likes to say, like, it's like giving your talent power tools, like to do their job like more efficiently and effectively.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's one of Bounty's big objectives this year is making sure that you know our workforce knows it.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: But there's there's a big mix of what we see on the client side as far as like AI readiness and the fact of like willingness to adopt it or not, and like having the right like cultural mindset in order to be able to do it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of helping each client individual navigate that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and and what about just the people's, you know, clients um sort of understanding of AI as a whole?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some things that, you know, again, to your point, things are moving very, very quickly, but are there some um some notions that that clients had about AI, you know, a year ago, two years ago, that are no longer valid at this point?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are some of those misconceptions that that people come to you and say, hey, what about this, this, and this?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's we we've moved on from there, or it's that's that's not quite right at this point.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I would say like there's three kind of myths that come to mind.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So like one of them is like AI-driven loyalty is all about content generation.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And while like content is a piece of it, but a lot of the power in AI is like using it to like make decisions, prioritize content, and like orchestrate like multiple touch points to be able to enhance like end-to-end customer experiences.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So like we have an um AI experience pattern framework that we created that combines like components.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So think of that as like a lot of the surface layer with like how consumers are interacting with the brand.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: So as they're interacting with like different digital components or things like that, or like clicking on a certain thing or hovering on a certain thing, or you know, making a certain purchase, and then pairing that with like different patterns that we see within the response, and that's able to deliver like different experiences to customers that go beyond content alone.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, another one is like uh the perfection of data.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of touched on this a second ago, but it's like if your use cases are really thoughtfully designed, um, where you're leveraging data that you know is correct, you know, that's a great place to start.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can like roadmap the rest from there, knowing that your data needs some evolution too.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third one is like kept hearing like AI is gonna take all of our jobs.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I believe that the like the people in the workforce that like learn how to use it and it can help you like propel you forward rather than overtaking.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just kind of a better tool to make you like more powerful, more efficient.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: But like AI isn't gonna be running enterprise loyalty on its own.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it needs loyalty marketers to guide it and really make decisions and like bring things together holistically from the enterprise level.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and you bring an interesting point, the the people who um are generally uh responsible nowadays, I I I think this is an accurate statement uh for the loyalty programs, it it's sort of blended together where you it used to be there was very specific group of people who are responsible for loyalty versus marketing versus whatever.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think those things have have really begun to blend together, um, as well as the use of the tools that you were just describing, the people who are responsible for that.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you see uh loyalty at this point and and and the principles that that that uh loyalty programs use are is that being applied more holistically throughout an organization at this point, um, whether it's through the use of AI, whether it's um, you know, looking at something um from a customer experience standpoint at every touch point, you know, that may or may not have anything to do specifically with loyalty.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, how how are you seeing that that play out at this point?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is it more of a loyalty?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: More of a holistic approach in an organization.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the organizations that are doing it well definitely take that holistic approach.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that like loyalty and marketing has come more closely together.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think other areas in the organization where we're seeing loyalty and really the data of loyalty have a great impact are like one, like customer service.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So one, so and also like employee enablement.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So for instance, like you know, priority routing from a customer service perspective.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So looking for like, you know, your high value or long-term tenured customers.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've been very loyal to American Airlines.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: When I call the 1-800 number, somebody picks up almost immediately and can solve my problem instead of waiting, you know, on hold for hours at a time.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even like proactive goodwill jesters.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, also been a longtime customer of Verizon and you know, been there for over 20 years.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: They randomly just sent me like, hey, thanks for your loyalty.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a 20% off discount for your monthly bill for the next year, which is really a nice surprise and delight.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also looking at like empowering frontline employees with loyalty context and data to be able to, you know, make better decisions, make customers feel special.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we work with First Watch, and like their whole thing is like, you know, loyalty is an outcome.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like a pro programmatic thing.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there's employees are a huge piece of that experience.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically giving them the context, but also the empowerment and the autonomy to be able to like surprise and delight members and make them feel special and that they're important to the brand, I think is key.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then also using data across like you know, products, services, experience, roadmaps, really leveraging the consumer insights to guide like roadmaps and like what the future of the organization is doing.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, looking at product evolution, you know, that could be informing like new product launches or new services, or even things like within the experience that create like more habitual use or just reward people on like tenure or engagement.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it's this whole notion of like your loyalty data is now shared throughout the organization to make everyone the way that you do business more intelligent.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just an asset for the loyalty or the marketing team anymore, which is great.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and with all that, um, I we'd be remiss if we didn't talk a little bit about uh measurement and and I I guess, you know, as things have evolved to the point that they are now, um are you seeing some uh some key measurements that used to be um you know, the the the primary thing that people were looking at to determine whether loyalty was a a success or not?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are are the are some of those outdated?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and if so, what are what are those things that you would advise clients?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that that's an outdated figure.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: You you need to be looking over here.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: What are the new KPIs as well?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think um, you know, when loyalty programs focus more on like campaign or programmatic focused approaches rather than like customer focused approaches, then sometimes they're struggling to find like the real value in their overarching strategy.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So like there are some KPIs that work okay for like campaign-led related things, like redemption rates, open rates, short-term lift, but they're not really acceptable measurement criteria when you look at like how to measure loyalty from an organizational perspective.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, looking from the business side, looking at things like overall profitability, um, but also looking across not just business metrics, but like customer metrics, brand metrics, um can also be like leading indicators of things that are happening.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at things like customer lifetime value, their retention rates, you know, and looking at the retention rates like across your different segments too, to dive a little bit deeper, but also looking at like advocacy rates or even like emotional health scores and things like that can tell a broader story than just some of those, you know, basic metrics as far as like, oh, our membership grew, you know, X number of people or, you know, you know, this percentage of people were redeeming something.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: While some of those, you know, it's important to keep a pulse on them.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to tell the true story of the value of the program.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think more and more, like, especially C-suite as executives, are looking for like, what is the value of it to the organization?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: How are we driving true loyalty with our customers?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Not just like, oh, what did XYMZ campaign do or how many members join the program this year?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, so a higher level sort of return on on investment, if you will.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and and so as we look into sort of our the sort of the predictive uh uh section of our of our discussion, um, you know, what are the the things that you think that will be part of loyalty programs moving forward that will really differentiate um, you know, program A from from program B and the success.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it does it relate to to that KPI, to that overall return on investment?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, absolutely.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it relates to that.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: It also relates to like the brands with that customer first mindset that are like leaning into those differentiators that we talk with, like those are the ones that are gonna win.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think we've all come to the realization that like loyalty isn't about points and perks.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's really about like creating relationships.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And those are built on, you know, relevance, value.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like being able to bring that to market in a way that feels like a more personalized, trusted relationship rather than like a bunch of marketing tactics strung together, really designed about like what's meaningful for the customer, what like dovetails nicely into their life, not just about like what the brand is trying to like incentivize or push from a business perspective.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think that those are the brands that are really gonna stand out and win.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the other ones are really gonna struggle.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and when you're doing, you know, doing those assessments for for new or existing clients, are there some that just sort of, you know, you look at certain programs and it drives you crazy because you're like, oh my gosh, guys, you're missing, you know, these couple of things.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you would just do these few things moving forward, um, and I know it's a gross generalization, you know, you know, depending on whether it's a product or a service or whatever the case is, but but are there a couple that you could point to that says you everyone out there really needs to pay attention to to these couple of things?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so every brand has a unique situation.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So like we always start with the loyalty audit to really dive into like what are those top gaps and opportunities to uncover like within their loyalty strategy and experience.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think one is kind of making sure that from like a measurement perspective, you're really understanding how your program's performing, understanding like what your customers want.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're not getting ongoing feedback from your customers, you're probably missing the mark.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're gonna learn a lot more about the why behind your metrics if you're getting that ongoing feedback and creating that two-way dialogue with the customers.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would say the other one is like people aren't willing to um deal with experiences that are really hard.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like consumers just give up these days.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so making sure that your experience is really easy to use, it's easy to interact with the brand.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think those two are table stakes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say the other criteria are definitely important, but I think a lot of brands, if they don't have at least those two things in place, they're not really setting themselves up for success for the long run.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Ellen, thank you for joining me on the Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we are looking forward to hearing more from uh Bounteists throughout 2026.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Happy New Year!
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was a delight.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a happy new year to you too.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank everyone for tuning in to our Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast series.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast and follow Loyalty360 on YouTube and LinkedIn.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: The links are provided below.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Please join us every Tuesday for another edition of our Industry Voices podcast.