Latest / Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast / S3xless Existence Video Review | S5 EP126

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S3xless Existence Video Review | S5 EP126 · Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast

0:51
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back everybody to another episode of Around the Kinky Campfire.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: As you can see, I've got the green screen cave back behind me once again.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: We're back on the desk area instead of our fancy background because I have a video review for you today.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: Podcast review specifically.
1:09
SPEAKER_02: Podcast video review.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: That is it.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: We are there around the Kinky Campfire podcast where we bring you all kinds of alternative relationship stuffs.
1:17
SPEAKER_02: The BDSMs, the non-monogamy, the queer, and sometimes the geeky.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: So, what we have for you today is a very special podcast.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: You've heard the name before.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and once again, you'll hear it here.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the Chris Williams Modern Wisdom podcast.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: I want to do a little review.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: He had a um uh doctor on there, Dr.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Deborah S, and I'll put the link in the description like I should.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Once again, and I've reminded myself I need to do that again for some other videos, but you ain't gotta worry about that.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: What we got here today is a review because they're talking about people, uh, sex and divorce and and um affects relationships.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, of course, divorce affects relationships, but why does like sexlessness uh affect relationships and then what divorce can do for like all kinds of parts of marriages and stuff like that, even though we were only new marriages here or we don't believe on it.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: At least Julius here, your host, me, H H Julius Marquise.
2:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I like to talk about all the relationships uh stuff, especially since uh she's a uh researcher of the sexual stuff going on.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: So of course, you know we had to talk about it here.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay, before we get into that, we today are going to have a non-sponsored drink, like usual, the ASMR five seconds.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: We'll see how it goes, um, uh which I will kind of lean over here and kind of do.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh let that begin in three, two, one.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Um boy, yeah.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: It's not super cold, but oh, it is um almost feels carbonated.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: Okay, is uh Victory Brewing Company um yep, drink sour, sour drink.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: We'll just say that right there for all the um algorithms listening to this.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's get into this.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm only gonna do a few minutes of this whole entire thing.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: Once again, I will remind myself, future Julius, to put the link in the description if you want to listen to the whole entire thing.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: We're about halfway through on the whole entire podcast um from where we're listening from.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so let's get into it here.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh, let's see.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: So, before actually, right before we do, I want to say I have an issue.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: This lady is very nice and she is very knowledgeable.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: And if you know if you have listened, if anything I've said before made you want to listen to the Modern Wisdom podcast, you'll see Chris has a particular banter and comedy about him, which is really great.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, she gets most of it, but then it's like certain current event stuff that she does not uh know about, which is kind of crazy to me being a sex, but whatever.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: She's stuck researching him in a lab making that up.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: Stuck researching in a lab so she can't get out and um partake in all the current events that are going on.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, whatever.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm here to fill those gaps in for you, and especially the topics that they bring up that we talk about here, aka Smut and uh Kinks.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, we'll we'll talk about that.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you'll see in the video, and then I'll give my final analysis at the end of the video what I really think and all that.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: So let's just jump into it here.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: What do you think about the relationship between porn use and the type of sex that people are having?
4:30
SPEAKER_00: In terms of it influencing the type of sex.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of say very extreme things, previously, okay, I would start with before the internet.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: So if because there's a concern about does porn make men more violent?
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Does porn make men entitled and set with sex?
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Um previously Yeah, before she even gets into it, it's like does porn actually do that?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: So kind of same thing with comic book and video games for my non-geek people.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: There is a thing when comic books got popular, the of course Christians uh wanted to ban comic books because it's like, oh, it makes young kids violent.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: The fuck?
5:04
SPEAKER_02: It's got a comic book, okay.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: And then of course there's like demon worship and all this stuff.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: Same thing they do with music back in like the 60s or 70s, and then of course, books, they also banned and burned books too.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: It's like we're just villainizing new technology.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what to call books.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Technology.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: We'll say it's all technology, and now we got porn on the internet.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: It's like, all right, it's not quite a you know Shakespeare book, but yeah, uh what are we doing here?
5:30
SPEAKER_02: The the the medium media does not make the person violent.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
5:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't spank partners because I'm a violent person.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: I do it because they enjoy it.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: It's consensual.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: What are we doing here?
5:45
SPEAKER_02: Why are we still like it's not mortal combat making people violent?
5:49
SPEAKER_02: The people are already violent, they're just using it an excuse, so stupid.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, the actual research.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: If he is, say, violent or um likes to degrade his partners or or treat them poorly.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say that's porn.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: I would say that's due to the way he was raised.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: He's probably antisocial, probably has some dark triad personality going on there, probably um doesn't think very highly of women, has a lot of hostility toward women, but those views would have been formed prior to porn.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: So I don't think porn is a problem.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: I think he probably was interested in violent porn and violent sex because of other factors in terms of how he was raised, potentially.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, with the fact that the fact that kids are being exposed to this so young, I'm really concerned about how this is affecting their sexuality because we do see studies coming out showing that kids who are having problematic sexual behaviors, it's due to being sexualized by porn, like early exposure, this trend of sexual choking that I write about in sex stinction.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, young women, Gen Z women in particular, it's almost ubiquitous.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: So I and to the point of this choking, y'all ignorant little shits.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: Stop choking people non-consensually.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Go get educated first before you start choking people.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: It's not about cutting off air circulation, it's about having control.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Trust me.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: I know the difference.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: I've done it before consensually, and there are ways to let the person that is doing the choking know that they're doing putting too much pressure on there.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: Have a discussion.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Now y'all know Julius does not participate in the hookup culture.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Not gonna judge people about the hookup culture, but y'all need to have a conversation.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: This shit is ridiculous, okay?
7:37
SPEAKER_02: We need to just trying to go out here and just start randomly choking people.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: It's not how you do things.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Ridiculous.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Okay, anyways, let's just stop all the ER visits.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you gonna ruin a situation that is all good and then you have to like take a trip to the ER because you didn't do your doggone research ahead of time?
7:53
SPEAKER_00: I think that is being be due to them being exposed to this at such a young age and believing that this is what they need to do in order to attract men or to be enticing in the bedroom.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be very clear that you could die from doing this, so it's not safe.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: There's no safe way to do it.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, this was Louise Perry's thing that she was helping to prosecute uh guys that had killed their partners and then used whatever it is, a rough sex the rough sex excuse thing, which uh yeah, I mean that's that's fucking horrific.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh there is a bit of research that I wanted to talk to you about, which I've never spoken about on the show before.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: You're probably familiar with.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: News study interviewed 302 adults.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Of those more women enjoyed aggression in porn, were aroused by portrayals of female pain, and reported wanting to see more aggression.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And this is a bar chart which shows women saying double the number of women saying aggression is arousing.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: This chart is wild.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: This chart is wild.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: I wish I could have oh man.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: I wonder if I could get a link to this uh at some point.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: But and uh I'm gonna make a note to zoom in here.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully I do remember.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Basically, we're saying on the left side of the chart, more uh most for most of this chart out of the six things, women rank higher than men.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: This is wild.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: This is why I wanted to do this video after I started listening to this podcast.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay, first of all, aggression is arousing.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Almost double women.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Hard aggression is arousing, almost double women, would like more aggression in mainstream pornography.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: Whoa, okay.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: I didn't see that before because now as I'm zooming in.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: Would like more aggression in mainstream pornography.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: All right, uh, actively seeking aggression, that is about the same, aroused by women showing pleasure in response to aggression.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: Yep, okay, about the same guys, a little bit more.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh aroused by women showing pain in response to aggression.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: Women okay, all right.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: Let's this is this is what I wanted to see.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Because right here, Julius um has done his own research on this.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh, aggression is arousing.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: I will say, in my experience, consensually, the partners that I've had, I mean, uh it's kind of like a uh like a filtering system because of where I meet my partners on the kinky Facebook.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of skewed that way.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: I will say I'm having more interesting connections outside of the kinky Facebook and still finding people that are interested in this kind of thing.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: So that part is interesting to me.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: The fact that it is uh, of course, is very heteronormative, men versus women.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: I would like to assume that most of these people that took this survey did not um have any experience prior to any kind of kink world.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: The fact that most of these are doubled is kind of interesting.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, aggression is arousing.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: So once again, this proves my point that you do not have to actually be physically, physically harmful, that just the aggressiveness or actually showing that you're aggressive is something that is arousing to people.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: Taking control.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: You don't want to actually do the choking, you just want to take control.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Again, heart aggression is arousing.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm wondering if these people know that porn is like acting.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: So you just I'm assuming most people know the porn is acting, so you just want to act this way, you don't want to actually do it.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: I think that's where the disconnect is, is because people think you actually have to do these things.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: No, just put on an act, just put on an act, don't actually don't actually do it.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: I realize the same three letters are on both of those words, but different kind of meanings.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Actually versus acting.
11:42
SPEAKER_02: Alright?
11:43
SPEAKER_02: So, hard aggression is arousing.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: So we see that more women find this uh arousing.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I wonder if they're sticking, yeah, just relating to porn in general.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, would like more aggression in mainstream porn.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: I would like more aggression in mainstream porn.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: God damn it.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: There's no biting of asses.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Why is nobody biting at booty?
12:04
SPEAKER_02: It's ridiculous.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh triple the number of men, uh, triple number of women to men, uh, hard aggression is arousing.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I almost forgot.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: Actively seek aggression.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: So I assume that's in real life.
12:17
SPEAKER_02: More women to men actively seek aggression.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: I will know I will note that um from my research, personal research, that there are a shocking number of women that would uh would like their partners to be more aggressive in bed, which is fascinating to me.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: Maybe four times the number of women to men would like more aggression in mainstream pornography, uh, maybe 30% more actively seek aggression.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh the only thing that men are stronger on is aroused by women showing pleasure in response to aggression.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: That okay, so that last point aroused by women showing pleasure in aggression, that would be very hard to know if you had no experience with it.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: I will say that.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: There have been many times when I'm doing something that is on the surface, non-sexual for the most part, it's still a kink, um, and sometimes a fetish, but not inherently sexual, like specifically touching the sexual bits of the body and person being aroused.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know until let's just call it a dipstick check.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: When you check the oil, and it's very well lubricated.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: I will say that.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: And it was very shocking to me how lubricated that oil was.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: So uh that was very interesting to me.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I will say, unless you do it a few times, you can't really tell if the person is aroused until it's parent, um, there's a leak in the system.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: But being like a newer person in uh the sexual activities, not knowing that ahead of time is is very interesting.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: So the fact that men are more aroused by showing pleasure to the aggression, unless you like, I don't know, a porn researcher, like not a porn researcher, but I I have researched porn.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: You can kind of tell when people are into it and when they're acting, it's like, oh no, I fell down and I can't get up.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so oh, my arms just turned to noodles randomly now, and I'm tripping on the ground and I can't get up.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, let me hold my butt cheek open for you so you can get right up in there.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: It's like those little things, unless you actually look at porn, you don't realize this is happening, and also um in real life, you don't realize this is happening.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: It's like, is this person really into it?
14:35
SPEAKER_02: But if you like let them go, I can get more specific.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: I probably teach a class on this, but if you let them go and they don't really run, they just kind of stay there, it's like, hmm, okay, I think they probably want this.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just let yeah, just just have a conversation, people.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: Have a conversation until you get the experience and you get up there, but still have a conversation.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: And that's maybe five percent uh aroused by women showing pain in response to aggression, nearly double women to men.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: This seems to be pretty this is uh a small sample size, 302 people, but this is uh you can dig deeper and find out.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: Kind of the same pattern, and it's something that I remember I once read a feminist who wrote about this, and she said something along the lines of um, it's an uncomfortable fact for most modern feminists that women seem to prefer aggressive porn than men do.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh misogynists use this as a an excuse that like she wanted it made uh type thing.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: That to me Which is absolutely fucking horrible because you can still have a conversation and don't make the assumption.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm just assuming that they assume that this was something she wanted, even though you didn't have a conversation and you're just gonna run in and do that kind of stuff.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Those are assholes.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Assholes.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Have a conversation.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Does suggest that the picture is a little bit more complex than just guys have learned it in porn.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: And now they're doing it to women, and women feel the need to perform up to it.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: That no one's pushing women in that way.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: It's not the only study of that kind.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: And um No, I agree.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: I I'm not one of those people that think that this is entirely like men pushing it on women, and women have no choice but to do it.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: I do think there are some women out there that's sexual max masochism.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So it's like sexual arousal at the idea of being hurt, humiliated, degraded by your partner.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's the only paraphilia that you actually find in women typically.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: So usually women, if Oh, that's so sorry, that's so interesting.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: The only paraphilia that's typical in women, yeah, paraphilia being signed up odd sexual uh uh proclivities, is masochism.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: If you do self-masochism.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, masochism They're gonna try to explain what the masochism is.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: But I'm gonna give I'm gonna correct them.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Is when it's happening to you, sadism is when you're doing it to someone else.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Right, okay, cool, cool.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: How much sadism is there in women?
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh so not quite correct, uh, doctor.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: Um so masochism is receiving pain, and sadism is giving pain, but you can be a uh self-masochist as well if you give yourself pain.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: So it's not really just giving and receiving, it's uh the pain part of it.
17:17
SPEAKER_02: If you like pain or you like giving pain, but you can be a self-masochist.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: There are people that do stuff to themselves.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: I've seen pictures, and that's uh that's a thing as well.
17:27
SPEAKER_02: So technically, just want to correct her there a little bit.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so when you do see other paraphilias like sadism, it usually is uh correlated with personality disorders.
17:37
unknown: Right.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: The customy dark triad.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay, anyway, so the uh say uh the masochism for women.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Not true in my case.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you that.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, probably.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Can't really say if you have dark drug, yeah, to have other people say you don't have it, you can't really like classify yourself.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Um I will say as a sadist, uh, I would do it with consensual people, and not so much that I am a jerk, but I do enjoy begging.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: But having somebody beg you to masochize them is a very comforting, I will say, morally not morally wise, but like brain health-wise, it's like, oh, they wanted this.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this is definitely something they want.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: They're literally begging on their hands and knees for it.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: So I'll say just for myself, for myself, not saying for all masochism key people, that it does uh add to the enjoyment if the person is asking it enthusiastically, enthusiastically consenting for it.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so evolutionarily it could be because women, well, women's bodies, have you heard of the study where women basically are roused to any type of porn?
20:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's whether it's yeah, they're more sexually fluid, uh girl on girl, guy on guy, girl on guy.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: But this is why this is why just to be clear, animals having sex, not people having sex with animals.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't agree with you, Staley.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: What's that uh fucking hockey players, the two hockey players boning?
20:19
SPEAKER_01: What's that thing?
20:20
SPEAKER_01: That it's that series.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: This is the part that drives me crazy.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: She's like, I don't know what this is.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: It's very pop culture, heated rivalry.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Of course I know it because I'm not there, but whatever.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Hot one, not hot ones, that's the wing thing.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: What the fuck is it?
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Two hockey players?
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Two hockey players.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: It's the it's taking the world by storm.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Heated rivalry.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: Fucking hot ones.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: He did rivalry.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: I knew I got the And he doesn't explain what it is.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: It's like what Canadian, you're supposed to know.
20:46
SPEAKER_01: I sorry, it was a hard week for you.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't actually watch porn so that might be why I've never heard of it.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: He did rivalry was a book.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: It was a book about these two hockey players on opposing teams, and then they they they fuck each other.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: Why are you reading this?
21:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm not reading it, right?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: This is a big TV show.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: I didn't see I've not I've never seen anything like this.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm the straightest man in the room.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't say stupid joke.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: He doesn't say that is uh a TV show, not a porn, not a porn.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Explain it! Um this is not hard to do.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: This has this has broken the internet, and uh it's you sh you should absolutely have a look at this.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: I'll do some studio.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: So it is it is basically revealing just how flexible women's sexualities are.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: That these two guys, there was a book, Book Super Popular, then pivoted over into this TV series, and the TV series is fucking ripped.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like uh uh a broke back mountain on ice, right?
21:45
SPEAKER_00: But was it actually pornographic or was it just like hinted?
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Asking the wrong guy.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, Chris.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: Why are you even bringing up if you don't know the answer?
21:52
SPEAKER_02: They don't actually show anything.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Good lord.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so he fucking brings it up.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: I haven't actually seen heated rival either, but I've heard people talk about it.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Like you don't they don't show all the bits in there, they just show the thrusting motions and then the grabbing and the heavy breathing and everything like that.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: But it's um not a porn!
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: I didn't get I mean I I have to assume that there was either implied or like pretty close to like raunchy shit happening on the on the screen.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Um anyway, that that you're quite right.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Why is it that you think that women's sexuality is more fluid than uh men's?
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh the unfortunate reason is rape so in the past, right, evolutionarily speaking, it protects the woman's body if she can become aroused regardless of what is happening.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Which is why that was a weird segue.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: What does it have to do?
22:43
SPEAKER_02: Fluidity has to do with Okay.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: That's a weird segue.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that has to do with like consent, which is not really consent um in that case.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: What fluid okay.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: I would argue, not a doctor, just has has done research.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: I won't even call myself a researcher, but the uh it's more socially accepted if a woman is uh more fluid with her stuff, like women, straight women, can just cuddle in bed and be totally fine, and it's just like, oh, that's just what women do, but if like a guy does it, it's yeah, or look down upon.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: And I, for one, not just because I'm a gender fluid individual, it is more so that it's just sh- not doesn't have to be classified as something if if people uh especially that present male are allowed to be more affectionate with each other, and it doesn't have to be labeled a specific kind of thing.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of stupid that society is that way.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's really only American well, mostly only American society.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: There are other cultures around the world where guys can hold hands and it's not considered to be looked down upon.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: So it's American society we're talking about.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Maybe even British society, since that's where Chris is from.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's kind of stupid.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: So I don't I don't understand why she said she threw the rape thing in there.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: That was a weird um turn.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes during sexual assault, women can still reach orgasm.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then they feel loads of shame afterward because it's It's fucking horrific.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: They think, did I want that?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Did I want this thing?
24:10
SPEAKER_01: How fucking awful am I?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: I I I'm traumatized, and now I did my body did a thing to me that I'm traumatized about as well.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: It's so brutal.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Speaking to those findings, though, um I'm I would be curious to know where how they sample.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Like do you do you remember like how they sampled for those women?
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh preferences related to aggression, pleasure, and pain in pornography among male and female interviewees.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: I've got the it's uh I can send you the uh the journal article.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: But certainly even if we don't look at aggression is arousing, hard aggression is arousing, like would like more aggression in mainstream pornography, actively seek aggression, aroused by women showing pain in response to aggression, just look at the romanticy genre.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, evolutionarily speaking, like in terms of masochism, it would benefit women to show a capacity to endure pain.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or not or like it's not gonna say subjugation, but it make it pr it evokes like caretaking behaviors for men, right?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: If they see that a woman is great um like in need of help or support.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I suppose so to a degree, but there's also a kind of resilience in masochism, right?
25:18
SPEAKER_01: That I can withstand it.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: There's all almost uh anti-fragility, not a fragility.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: That goes back to the trauma that I talk about in sextin and the um is in the porn chapter about how many individuals who are into BDSM and kink actually do have a history, especially of physical abuse in childhood.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I imagine that made you very popular.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, that is uh something I have to agree with her about.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just from personally living the lifestyle for over a decade now.
25:48
SPEAKER_02: Seems like most people have had some kind of bullshit happen to them when they were a child.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Me, not so much.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: I still have not figured out where my kink factor comes in.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: So I would um lean more towards it's a nature thing, something you're born with.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, that could be that could be why.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: It's still happening now.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: People are a sex positive write research writer person.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was a columnist for a well-known men's magazine with nude women in it.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: And um writing this book, I was so grateful to have the chance to sit down and really question a lot of the beliefs I had.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: And I went through my own data that I collected when I was still in sex research, and I found the same thing.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: And I was amazed.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: I thought, what do you mean?
26:30
SPEAKER_01: You went through the data and what did you find?
27:27
SPEAKER_00: I found that interest in BDSM and kink is more is correlated with severe physical abuse abuse in childhood.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: And this is even more so the case for men who are into BDSM and kink as compared to men who are community controls, obviously, men who have porn problems who are not into BDSM and K or Kink, and also more so the case than men who are convicted of child sex crimes.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: So there's something with physical.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: BDSM and Kink is a better predictor of male childhood abuse trauma.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: Female too.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: But uh uh than than pedophilia is victimization.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, well, convicted sex uh sex offenses or pornography.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: So we don't know how many of those are unreported and stuff like that.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: But also there are times when men will abuse children and not necessarily be pedophilia.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: That's like fine, you know, very fine details.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: But uh overall, yeah.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, child sex crisis.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: What do you think that says about what BDSM and kink is doing for people?
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell It's really sad.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: I I want to be clear, like I'm not saying this to to make judgment about people or to try and shame them.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: I really hope my in bringing awareness to the because BDSM is so commonplace in society, right?
28:39
SPEAKER_00: It's so normalized almost.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: It's almost seen like there there is a variation, I think, in terms of people who just who might partake in sexual activity that is like playful or passionate, right?
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Versus wanting to strangle your partner, wanting to really hurt them, wanting to humiliate them, or if you enjoyed those behaviors done to you, especially for women, because physical harm it wouldn't really make sense for women or men, but why would physical harm be correlated with orgasm?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Right?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: If you can potentially become pregnant from this act, why would it be beneficial to you and your offspring to find physical pain and arousing?
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why?
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Why because something went wrong with the system.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And it's getting wires crossed.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: So I my hope is that by bringing attention to this, because so many people I sense enjoy these things but don't really know why, or they think it's something that there's something it's something they take pride in, and I've got to do that.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: They're using maybe it's something that you should look a little more deeply into.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: They're using their uh sexual preferences as a way to work through something that maybe should be done with a therapist.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Also, some therapists recommend uh Kink BDSM as a coping coping?
29:51
SPEAKER_02: No, therapeutic practice as well.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, which is uh something that is growing over more so this is uh therapists that are necess not necessarily in the kink lifestyle uh to make a note of.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: So it's fascinating because yeah, it seems uh more childhood stuff happened to people that are in the kink and be the SM lifestyle.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: But if you look into therapists, not a therapist, I just know the stuff, is that reframing the narrative is a big thing when it comes to um working through your past stuff.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: That's why like ayahuasca and all the uh psychedelics are helpful because it like takes you out of the storyline that you've been ruminating on and traumatized with for many years and lets you reframe that narrative.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: But if you can go into a BDS team consensually, have a negotiation, have safe words, and go into something where you're literally bound and stuff is happening to you, but you can control the situation with a safe word or a safe gesture, whatever you um negotiate with with your partner or partners at the time, then you can see that you have control, and then you can stop the whatever you're doing if you want to.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: You stop your scene, stop the play or whatever it is, and you have that control.
31:06
SPEAKER_02: So that'll that is why it's therapeutic for people that have been stuffed happened to them when they were younger.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh I will say that, okay?
31:14
SPEAKER_01: So I remember I was talking to a researcher and they were telling me about how this maybe not uncontacted tribe, but this relatively um relatively uncontacted tribe, one of the rites of passage that they had for women was that men would get uh reeds, like thick reeds and sticks, like whippy sticks, and they would stand there and they would whip the women across their backs.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Like these every woman in the the um tribe had huge scars everywhere across their backs.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: And the goal of the women was to be able to stand there and not flinch, not make noise, not cry, not whimper, not yell, not do anything.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: And this was supposed to be uh a presentation of their capacity to endure what would become giving birth, child rearing.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And that when you were talking about um it might engender sympathy from men, uh which I can completely see, like the just the power dynamic, subjugation, uh all of that stuff.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: That that does make sense.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh allow me to come and hold you.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: But if you're able to withstand pain, there's also a kind of resilience in that, which I think would almost work against it.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, kind of interesting.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: I always think about that that example when it comes to sort of female behavior in kink.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, is this maybe some kind of demonstration of my capacity, of the woman's capacity to uh endure hard things physically, uh not like lift heavy things, right?
32:51
SPEAKER_01: That's the guy picking you up and putting you against the wall.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: That's the ability for him to physically dominate you, but the woman's ability to endure the pain might actually be maybe like a fertility cue of some kind, like my pain tolerance.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: It could be I could see it-real nascent idea.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: It's wet clay, all right.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: I could see it if it is something that is like culturally enforced and it's like a rite of passage.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: I will say I've had experiences with um partners where they uh take it a pri uh badge of honor when they don't when they can resist saying a safe word, and it's like that's not helpful for anybody.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: Let's not do that.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: If you want, if it's getting to the point, especially in the beginning, or it's like your first or first few times that you're like playing with somebody for the first time, it's like set the set the boundary, set the pain tolerance levels uh accurately.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: Because if you're like pushing yourself, you're not having fun if you're resisting saying a safe word.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: It's like, let's not do that.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I found that very interesting when the uh they were talking about this particular point and then Chris's random thing about the tribe.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh that it it is a thing um for women to for women, I will say in my experience, women, to uh take a badge of honor in um wanting to not show the pain.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: There is a particular website where they had um an Olympic type thing uh where it was whoever had the highest pain tolerance ended up like winning.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: And it's like they had to cut that uh website, they had to cut that down because they were there was women in there that are like going too far with it.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know what, let's just stop anybody from getting like permanently injured, and uh, we're just gonna shut this site down.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: It was not like an external thing, it was an internal thing, and the people were like, all right, they're going too far with this, and it's like they are just like gonna sacrifice parts to win.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, okay, let's just so it's fascinating that they're talking about this here because it's like a pride of being able to take the pain.
34:49
SPEAKER_02: I think it has to do with childbirth, probably.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in my opinion, as somebody that can't have children.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: But if you as a woman are intentionally putting yourself in those situations when you don't need to, there are plenty of guys out there who are.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, vanilla is seen as a negative thing.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't think van being vanilla is a bad thing.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: So there are plenty of vanilla guys out there who are not going to want to strangle you during sex and not gonna want to like you know degrade you during sex.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: So if you're intentionally putting yourself through that, even if it is a way to show how strong you are, why would you choose to do that?
35:15
SPEAKER_00: When you don't need to.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: When you don't need to.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh romanticy.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: Also, I will say there's some people that consensually like to do this.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: So there are places as well, if you like that kind of thing and want to try it out.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh there are pe places and people that will be very helpful to help you out in a consensual way, knowledgeable people.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: There are there are places for that.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: I will say that right there.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: I was sat on the plane flying to St.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: Louis a couple of weeks ago.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Just wanted to talk about romantices when he's talking about smut.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: As you know, uh, here at Around the Kinky Campfire, we are big fans of the smut.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: I've had my author friends on here, so he's talking about romantices, and we'll go into this.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: This is the really triggering part for me, because they're talking about smut, but they don't actually know what they're talking about.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh foreshadowing.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: And there was a lovely woman sat next to me, and she had her iPad up, and she was reading Court of Thorns and Roses.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: Now, what is that?
36:10
SPEAKER_01: That is more that is one of the most popular romanticy books at the moment.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: Smut! He's talking about smut! I don't understand how she doesn't know what this is.
36:20
SPEAKER_02: What research are you doing?
36:22
SPEAKER_02: You don't know the common shit.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Even I don't familiar with romantic.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Is it it's basically like erotica.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: It is smut.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Smut smut.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: That's probably that that's a word that you would use.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Um I respect the art form and also the fact that the fan base is fucking massive and I don't want to get lynched by them.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh no, no, no.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: It it is it is um story it it's female literature literacy porn wrapped in quite a lot of story.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: But there are sort of peak dirty moments.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the our friend is tapping away and she didn't have a glasses on, the font size was quite quite large.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: How you are a sex researcher and you don't know what smut is, I'm just saying.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: Very judgy right now, judgy Julius, but I'm totally fine with that.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: And I I had a realization that chicks can basically watch porn on a plane.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: I guess so.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: They chicks.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: Chicks can watch porn.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: There are some guys that uh read smut as well, just putting it out there.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: But yes, it's mostly women that uh partake in the smut uh stuff.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: I will say, because it's you know, I uh volunteer at a very popular SMUT convention uh once a year.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: They can basically watch their equivalent of porn on a plane, and I'm looking at this, I'm trying not to move my head at all.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm keeping my head dead straight, I'm going.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I spoke to some friends after it.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: I've not read the book.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't read enough to fully capture what the narrative arc was.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in might be a Court of Thorns and Roses or one of the other books like that, uh, the protagonist is a fairy prince or a fairy king who has the ability to transform himself into this like monstrous beast.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think that in that sort of shows what it is the one of the sort of archetypal okay, I'll cut it there um just because it's listening it to it for the third time is still so triggery.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: Because they don't know what monster fucking is.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes, the beauty in the beast uh situation.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: You have the strong uh beast out there, and it's specifically safe for you.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna harm you because it particularly likes you, but it will be a beast to everybody else and monster fucking and all this different kind of stuff.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so uh go check that out.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, I just want to go over this real quick because I'm way over time, probably.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh oh uh okay.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: So it was a good discussion.
39:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm just generally shocked.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: Shocked.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: Um because the doctor there didn't know about what smut was, and it's like it's a billion-dollar business, and you're talking about sex.
39:13
SPEAKER_02: I would argue that's probably the number one way that women get um their arousal from.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: What would you call that?
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Get their uh sexual entertainment from.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: It's definitely smut books reading about it, uh, rather than porn.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: I would yeah, it's definitely been uh studies on that that women read more, um, and that's all over the world, not just in America, too.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: So that's fascinating that she looked into the all the porn stuff but didn't know about smut.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: It's often overlooked.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: And here oh good lord.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Here and around the kinky campfire, we are proponents of the smut.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: Get the smut out there.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Everybody should be reading some smut if you can.
39:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm still trying to work my way through it.
39:55
SPEAKER_02: It is very hard, even if the story is like five minutes on Audible.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: Good lord, it's just straight to the action.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's hard to listen to.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: But um, go out there and grab you some smut.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so this is uh uh modern wisdom.
40:09
SPEAKER_02: I like that he's open-minded.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: Of course, you've heard me um talk about him before.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: And this lady, I'm very new to Deborah S.
40:18
SPEAKER_02: So I will um look out for her on other podcasts and everything like that.
40:22
SPEAKER_02: And hopefully she has gone in and did a little bit more research on smut.
40:25
SPEAKER_02: That's so crazy.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, overall, uh a great um uh discussion that they have, and hopefully they both learn something.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: And I hope you all learned something as well.
40:36
SPEAKER_02: And I answered the questions that you had, or the people that are have seen this podcast and had questions, and then they didn't really get the answer to.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: But I hope I gave it to you.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: Monster Fucking is a genre in smut, okay?
40:51
SPEAKER_02: Basically, the monster is there.
40:54
SPEAKER_02: Tears everybody up, but for you particularly, it's a gentle giant or whatever uh gentle orc or uh werewolf or whatever it is.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: But everybody else it hates, but for you it can change because you're that special character.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: So that's basically why they enjoy the smut porn in that particular genre.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: Alright, well, that's it for now.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: You didn't hear me talking as much because we were listening to that video snippet together.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: But if you want to listen more, make sure you check out all the podcast uh distributors out there, the Spotify's and iTunes and such and such.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: And we have new episodes, audio on Thursday, and video on Friday.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: If the camera doesn't fuck up or fuck me over.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: But that's all for now for Around the Kiki Campfire.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: Please rate, subscribe, share all the different ways on the YouTubes and the Instagrams and everything.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: And send me emails if you have more questions.
41:47
SPEAKER_02: But that's all for now.
41:49
SPEAKER_02: Hello.