Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / The 4 Essential Skills of Body Recomposition After 40 | Ep 499

Transcript

The 4 Essential Skills of Body Recomposition After 40 | Ep 499 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Philip Pape: If you've tried body recomp before, that is building muscle and losing fat at the same time.
• 0:04
  Philip Pape: Maybe you joined a program and you got success, but then a year, two, three years later, the results kind of regressed.
• 0:13
  Philip Pape: This episode is for you because today I'm going to show you the four skills you need for body recomposition for the rest of your life.
• 0:20
  Philip Pape: Also, why does the research say the weight comes back about four years after you're done with a coached program?
• 0:27
  Philip Pape: And then what separates people who succeed and maintain those results past four years from those who don't?
• 0:34
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that puts a popular piece of fitness advice under the microscope, finds the hidden reason it doesn't work, and gives you the deceptively simple fix that does.
• 0:47
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, Philip Pape.
• 0:49
  Philip Pape: I'm a certified nutrition coach, and the last two episodes were really about how to figure out parts of the body composition process.
• 0:58
  Philip Pape: On episode 497, I talked about not using calculators to set your calories to learn how to measure your own expenditure instead for calories and macros.
• 1:08
  Philip Pape: So if you missed that, check it out.
• 1:10
  Philip Pape: On episode 498, I gave you sort of the gates and the inputs for deciding when to cut, build, maintain.
• 1:16
  Philip Pape: And many of these assume that, hey, you are collecting, tracking, measuring your data.
• 1:23
  Philip Pape: You know how to act on it, you have the confidence to do so, and you don't really need anyone helping you out, which we all know can be a big struggle in this world today, because there's either too much advice, and it's so confusing out there, and you don't know where to go.
• 1:39
  Philip Pape: There's bad advice, or there's you're kind of living in your own head trying to do this and not quite knowing what to do.
• 1:47
  Philip Pape: So this is why I have a lot of coaches and mentors myself, because we can't do it alone necessarily.
• 1:52
  Philip Pape: So the question is though, can you?
• 1:54
  Philip Pape: Can you build the skills that you need to be better and better and better at this?
• 1:58
  Philip Pape: Of course, that's true with anything regarding personal improvement.
• 2:01
  Philip Pape: And it really, really matters, probably more than usual for those of you who are older, you know, over 40, over 50.
• 2:08
  Philip Pape: And if you've been at this for a while, your body is changing quite a bit during this phase of life, but you're still struggling to manage, you know, a diet, like how do you eat to manage your body composition?
• 2:19
  Philip Pape: Maybe you don't even know what I'm talking about, and you're just trying to lose weight, and you're gonna have a big revelation today.
• 2:24
  Philip Pape: And you don't buy like a 30-year lifestyle improvement and fat loss and body composition program, right?
• 2:32
  Philip Pape: Or you don't necessarily have like a personal coach for decades.
• 2:35
  Philip Pape: Most people can afford that.
• 2:37
  Philip Pape: So we need to build those skills.
• 2:38
  Philip Pape: It's a very important skill.
• 2:40
  Philip Pape: It's right up there with like relationships and your career, right?
• 2:43
  Philip Pape: Light health and fitness is the biggest investment you can make in yourself because it's gonna reduce significant cost later in life and make your health spend much more fruitful.
• 2:53
  Philip Pape: I want you to stick around to the end because I always have a little treat at the end of our episodes.
• 2:56
  Philip Pape: I'm gonna give you a sentence that you can write down before your next phase starts that will save you six weeks of a stall.
• 3:05
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 3:06
  Philip Pape: So one sentence, just stick around for that.
• 3:08
  Philip Pape: I know I'm such a tease.
• 3:09
  Philip Pape: So here is our map for today.
• 3:11
  Philip Pape: Okay, and you might want to write these down because I'm gonna come back to them at the end.
• 3:15
  Philip Pape: These are uh four skills.
• 3:17
  Philip Pape: The first one is whether you can read your own trends, your own data.
• 3:22
  Philip Pape: The second is whether you can set a, I'll say, a trigger before you need it, i.e.
• 3:28
  Philip Pape: being proactive.
• 3:30
  Philip Pape: The third is whether you can get back to normal after life disrupts you.
• 3:35
  Philip Pape: And the fourth is whether you can troubleshoot an issue or a stall and do it in the right order of priority.
• 3:42
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 3:43
  Philip Pape: So those four skills are what you need if you are going to do this successfully for the long haul.
• 3:50
  Philip Pape: Body now, I put it in the phrase of body recomp, but really I just mean in general building muscle, losing fat, trying to be fitter, have better energy, look better, all of it together.
• 4:00
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 4:01
  Philip Pape: And then I'm gonna talk a little bit about the evidence for each one and really connect it to some of the things I enjoy, like psychology and human behavior, because that's ultimately what moves the needle, not just information.
• 4:12
  Philip Pape: So before we get to those, I want to look at a study on depression.
• 4:16
  Philip Pape: Okay, yes, on depression.
• 4:18
  Philip Pape: It has nothing to do with fitness, but it's the best evidence that I've found for any of this.
• 4:24
  Philip Pape: This is cool.
• 4:25
  Philip Pape: This is why I like multidisciplinary research, okay, because we can learn from other areas.
• 4:30
  Philip Pape: It's not all about fitness.
• 4:32
  Philip Pape: I also want to look at what the number 3.9 years means.
• 4:38
  Philip Pape: We're gonna come back to that.
• 4:39
  Philip Pape: For anyone who has finished a program, like an online program or working with a coach, there's a magic number of 3.9 years.
• 4:45
  Philip Pape: We're gonna talk about that as well.
• 4:46
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 4:47
  Philip Pape: Again, I'm such a tease, right?
• 4:49
  Philip Pape: So let me describe a scenario and you tell me if it's you, okay?
• 4:55
  Philip Pape: You've done this four, five, six, seven, maybe more times than that.
• 4:59
  Philip Pape: And you had, let's say, a macro coach back in 2019.
• 5:02
  Philip Pape: Maybe you had an online program.
• 5:04
  Philip Pape: Everything went online in 2020 for obvious reasons.
• 5:07
  Philip Pape: So 2020, 2021.
• 5:08
  Philip Pape: We launched our show in 2021.
• 5:11
  Philip Pape: You did a challenge.
• 5:12
  Philip Pape: A lot of you do challenges all the time, online or with the gym.
• 5:15
  Philip Pape: You've probably used one, two, three, or more apps at some point for different things, for food, for training, for habits, whatever.
• 5:22
  Philip Pape: And I think when when people talk about this stuff, they say it in the sense of, okay, you did those things that they didn't work, but in many cases, they did work.
• 5:31
  Philip Pape: Like in the short term, a lot of these things work for you, right?
• 5:35
  Philip Pape: You lost weight on most of them, or maybe you built a little muscle.
• 5:38
  Philip Pape: Maybe you weren't lazy, you weren't, you weren't non-compliant, you were sticking to it and showing up.
• 5:44
  Philip Pape: A lot of you like things like challenges for that reason.
• 5:46
  Philip Pape: It's kind of this burst of group-centered motivation, but then they end.
• 5:50
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like when I go to a training session or workshop.
• 5:54
  Philip Pape: It could even be for your career, right?
• 5:57
  Philip Pape: And you get all pumped up and you get all the materials and you go through all the exercises, you do all the brainstorming and networking, and then it's done.
• 6:04
  Philip Pape: And then you go home, and the next week it's like the binder goes on the shelf and you don't think about it again.
• 6:10
  Philip Pape: That's often what happens.
• 6:11
  Philip Pape: Okay, so same thing with a lot of these programs, which is a challenge for us as coaches and me with this podcast like, how do I keep you motivated for the long haul?
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: How do we make this sustainable so you're not just going off of bursts of motivation, even with even with our own programs?
• 6:25
  Philip Pape: So now what you see online, and I've said this myself, is that hey, these programs are designed to keep you dependent.
• 6:33
  Philip Pape: Okay, that's a little bit of a cynicism in the business model, right?
• 6:36
  Philip Pape: The business model's retention, long-term revenue.
• 6:40
  Philip Pape: So, of course, nobody has any incentive to teach you to leave the program.
• 6:45
  Philip Pape: Now, I want to be careful with that argument because it's a very satisfying argument, but I don't think it's completely fair or honest because most coaches I know are not sitting there like Mr.
• 6:56
  Philip Pape: Burns on, you know, on Simpsons.
• 6:58
  Philip Pape: Ooh, how are we going to keep you confused and sticking with my program forever?
• 7:03
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 7:04
  Philip Pape: Now, there's a lot, there is a lot of manipulation.
• 7:06
  Philip Pape: There's a lot of, you know, 20-year-olds out there that are using cold DMs and junk like that.
• 7:10
  Philip Pape: But there's a lot of great people in the industry that I've met.
• 7:13
  Philip Pape: And they're just answering the question that sits right in front of their face, right?
• 7:19
  Philip Pape: And for many coaches, that's just clients wanting to know what they need to do.
• 7:24
  Philip Pape: What do they need to eat this week?
• 7:26
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 7:26
  Philip Pape: Well, how do I need to train?
• 7:27
  Philip Pape: Like what the heck is gonna make me successful?
• 7:30
  Philip Pape: Why am I not losing weight, et cetera?
• 7:33
  Philip Pape: And I think a coach can be doing the first one really well, like the first answering those questions, but not necessarily teaching you the why or the method behind it or the science or the process behind it.
• 7:46
  Philip Pape: Now, many of you might say, hey, I don't even need to know that, just tell me what to do.
• 7:49
  Philip Pape: And that's fine.
• 7:50
  Philip Pape: You're kind of ensuring your own dependence on coaches.
• 7:53
  Philip Pape: And I would say that there's nothing right or wrong with that.
• 7:56
  Philip Pape: Like many of us want to have teachers, coaches in our lives, maybe for a long, long, long time.
• 8:02
  Philip Pape: I mean, we generally outsource all our medical decisions to the medical professionals.
• 8:07
  Philip Pape: And yet we know that when we take control of our health and start to research things and do it in an evidence-based way, sometimes we come across insights that we didn't get from those folks.
• 8:16
  Philip Pape: And it's really good to understand.
• 8:17
  Philip Pape: Plus, you have different phases in your life and you're changing constantly.
• 8:21
  Philip Pape: So if you have to pay someone or you have to like depend on another person to give you the answer all the time, you're constantly gonna be bugging them every time you do this.
• 8:29
  Philip Pape: Now you might say, okay, AI can be helpful there.
• 8:32
  Philip Pape: Well, that's a whole other can of worms.
• 8:34
  Philip Pape: We have our own AI app, it's called Fitness Lab, and we're actually coming out with a new release, it might be out already, that gets better and better and better for this kind of stuff.
• 8:41
  Philip Pape: And it kind of serves that same purpose, but it's still an app, you're still gonna pay for it.
• 8:45
  Philip Pape: So I do like to be kind of on that edge of both sides.
• 8:51
  Philip Pape: Like, on one hand, I love helping people, and if you want to pay me for that service, I'm here to help.
• 8:55
  Philip Pape: On the other hand, I want you to be very competent and skillful in what you do.
• 8:59
  Philip Pape: Cause at the end of the day, that's what being a positive, I guess, human community is all about.
• 9:04
  Philip Pape: Okay, so I want to change the question here.
• 9:07
  Philip Pape: What I mean.
• 9:08
  Philip Pape: What I mean by that, it isn't whether you should have a coach.
• 9:12
  Philip Pape: Okay, that's about the money and preferences and how much like you have like having a coach and someone in your corner.
• 9:18
  Philip Pape: There's not a universal right or wrong answer to that.
• 9:19
  Philip Pape: Everybody's different.
• 9:20
  Philip Pape: The question is whether you could without a coach.
• 9:25
  Philip Pape: I think it's a really good question.
• 9:26
  Philip Pape: And I say coach as like a euphemism for any sort of external support.
• 9:31
  Philip Pape: That could be an app, that could be a group, it could be free, it could be paid, doesn't matter.
• 9:35
  Philip Pape: But if that thing vanished tomorrow, if the app shut down, if life got difficult or expensive, and that was the first thing to go, because it's just not a priority for you right now.
• 9:46
  Philip Pape: Could you still keep doing the thing and doing it competently?
• 9:50
  Philip Pape: And you know, it's funny, I had a former client, Heather, she knows who she is, who was with me for a long time.
• 9:55
  Philip Pape: And she took the most advantage of that process to learn to the point where, you know, when she left me, I didn't feel like I felt sad in one way, but at the other hand, I was proud.
• 10:03
  Philip Pape: She went on to be a coach herself.
• 10:05
  Philip Pape: And then she reaches out for mentorship on that.
• 10:07
  Philip Pape: So that's awesome, right?
• 10:08
  Philip Pape: Like we want to be able to pay it forward.
• 10:09
  Philip Pape: But notice these are two different questions.
• 10:12
  Philip Pape: I know people who could DIY everything, they're just super disciplined, they hustle, and and yet they pay for coaching anyway, because having a second set of eyes is worth it to them, and it helps them level up even more.
• 10:26
  Philip Pape: And that's a great reason.
• 10:28
  Philip Pape: I also know people who've been with a coach for three, four, five years who couldn't tell you, don't have a clue why they're being told what to eat, how to train, whatever.
• 10:37
  Philip Pape: We even had a very experienced power powerlifter, award-winning, you know, competitive power lifter, who started working with me because of that reason.
• 10:46
  Philip Pape: Like her coach didn't explain it.
• 10:48
  Philip Pape: She felt kind of stuck, like not knowing why and very dependent, and reached out to me and said, Look, I want to understand why.
• 10:53
  Philip Pape: So would you rather be able to take what you learned and apply it for yourself going forward or not, is the question.
• 11:02
  Philip Pape: And I, you know, in full disclosure, if you've just found this podcast, you know, I pitch my stuff all the time on the show because this is free content I give to you guys.
• 11:09
  Philip Pape: I love doing it, but we also have to support our business.
• 11:12
  Philip Pape: And I sell a program.
• 11:13
  Philip Pape: I have a direct financial interest in you deciding that you want coaching.
• 11:17
  Philip Pape: So everything I say for the next 20 minutes, yeah, run it through that filter, to be honest.
• 11:21
  Philip Pape: And you don't challenge me on it, right?
• 11:23
  Philip Pape: I'm gonna try to make it easy on you by telling you where the research doesn't go my way.
• 11:27
  Philip Pape: I hope I do that more often than not.
• 11:29
  Philip Pape: There are a few.
• 11:30
  Philip Pape: And why don't we start there?
• 11:32
  Philip Pape: How do you like that?
• 11:33
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 11:33
  Philip Pape: In any okay, I never I never did debate in in high school or college, but I understand that one of the best tactics in debate is to acknowledge the other side's argument so that you can potentially dismantle it.
• 11:44
  Philip Pape: And maybe you can't, I don't know, but that's that's what I understand.
• 11:47
  Philip Pape: So I want to start with the research that is strongest against what I say sometimes.
• 11:54
  Philip Pape: It's the strongest evidence where ongoing contact with a coach works and it doesn't just work in a vague, you know, low-grade sort of way.
• 12:05
  Philip Pape: It works very statistically measurably.
• 12:08
  Philip Pape: What I mean by that is there's a trial called Tours, T-O-U-R-S, and it was by Perry and colleagues.
• 12:14
  Philip Pape: It was on rural women with an average starting loss, uh weight loss of about 10 kilograms.
• 12:21
  Philip Pape: The group that got continued phone or in-person contact for a year regained 1.2 kilograms, while the group that got educational materials without the coaching regained 3.7 kilograms.
• 12:34
  Philip Pape: Now it's interesting, they both regained, but the group with the support didn't regain as much.
• 12:40
  Philip Pape: Same people, the same starting weight loss, but that's like a 3x difference.
• 12:45
  Philip Pape: There was another trial called the stop regain trial, found the same pattern.
• 12:50
  Philip Pape: There's another one called Look Ahead, a lot of these acronyms, I don't know.
• 12:54
  Philip Pape: A-H-E-A-D.
• 12:55
  Philip Pape: And that's the big one where they looked at five over 5,000 adults, 45 to 76, and they found ongoing monthly contact kept them, you know, sustaining their results.
• 13:05
  Philip Pape: So meaningfully less uh weight regain or maintenance of their weight for eight years.
• 13:11
  Philip Pape: Now, eight years is a long time to keep the weight off.
• 13:14
  Philip Pape: Now, I'm not all about weight, you know, I'm about body composition, but still it's a good proxy for how this might matter.
• 13:22
  Philip Pape: So we can't look at that in a vacuum.
• 13:24
  Philip Pape: There's the other half.
• 13:25
  Philip Pape: Let's look at the other half.
• 13:26
  Philip Pape: Okay, in 2021, there was a big synthesis of the evidence in the BMJ journal.
• 13:32
  Philip Pape: 155 trials of more than 150,000 people that looked at what happens after these programs end.
• 13:39
  Philip Pape: Well, at the end of a program, people were 2.8 kilograms lighter than the control group.
• 13:44
  Philip Pape: That's good, right?
• 13:45
  Philip Pape: But once the program stopped, they regained faster than the control group did.
• 13:49
  Philip Pape: And the model predicted their body weight was back at baseline 3.9 years after the treatment ended.
• 13:55
  Philip Pape: So that's the 3.9 years I was teasing about early on.
• 13:58
  Philip Pape: I think I said four years in the teaser, but you get it.
• 14:01
  Philip Pape: Then there's something I think matters even more here.
• 14:04
  Philip Pape: There's a trial called weight loss maintenance, and they did brief monthly counseling out to 30 months.
• 14:12
  Philip Pape: And then they kept going with some people out to 60 months.
• 14:15
  Philip Pape: That's five years.
• 14:16
  Philip Pape: So they doubled the contact from 30 to 60.
• 14:18
  Philip Pape: And then that extension from 30 to 60 months produced no significant additional benefit.
• 14:24
  Philip Pape: The weight regain was steepest in year one, slower in year two, and it was flat by year three, no matter which group you were in.
• 14:31
  Philip Pape: So if we look at the results together, they okay, are these disagreeing with each other, right?
• 14:36
  Philip Pape: It sounds like the support helps while the support is there.
• 14:41
  Philip Pape: And then when it stops, whatever it helps with tends to stop too.
• 14:46
  Philip Pape: And then if you add more and more of it past a point, though, you don't get any extra benefit.
• 14:51
  Philip Pape: So it's kind of a time-based analysis that we have to do here, which is important because a lot of stuff we look at over too short of a length of time in these studies.
• 15:00
  Philip Pape: So, what does this mean?
• 15:03
  Philip Pape: Is you know, how long do I need a coach?
• 15:06
  Philip Pape: Is maybe not the right variable.
• 15:08
  Philip Pape: Six months versus two years versus forever.
• 15:11
  Philip Pape: That is not what's separating the people who keep their results from the people who don't, because we just learned that past a certain point it doesn't matter.
• 15:18
  Philip Pape: And there's not a study that would like settle this.
• 15:20
  Philip Pape: There's no trial that compares a finite skills-focused program against an open-ended one on long-term outcomes.
• 15:26
  Philip Pape: We just don't have that.
• 15:28
  Philip Pape: But where we can look is outside of fitness.
• 15:31
  Philip Pape: So this brings me to what I mentioned earlier.
• 15:33
  Philip Pape: Cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT, for depression, is probably the closest well-studied thing we have to what we're talking about because it's deliberately time-limited.
• 15:44
  Philip Pape: And the whole point of it is to teach somebody skills to use when it's done.
• 15:49
  Philip Pape: They're teaching skills.
• 15:50
  Philip Pape: It's fascinating.
• 15:51
  Philip Pape: So we look at a study by Holland, H-O-L-L-O-N, and colleagues back in 2005.
• 15:58
  Philip Pape: They took people who would respond or who had responded to cognitive therapy and they took away the therapy.
• 16:04
  Philip Pape: Sounds mean, I know.
• 16:06
  Philip Pape: And then they took people who had responded to medication and they took away their medication.
• 16:10
  Philip Pape: Ooh, okay.
• 16:11
  Philip Pape: So there was a relapse in, or they measured the relapse and in the withdrawn therapy group, so the CBT that was taken away, it was 30.8% relapse.
• 16:23
  Philip Pape: The relapse in the withdrawn medication group was 76.2%.
• 16:27
  Philip Pape: So, like, what is that more than double?
• 16:30
  Philip Pape: So the people who came off therapy, actually, this is another finding.
• 16:35
  Philip Pape: The people who came up therapy, that 30.8%, they did no worse than people who were kept on medication, which was 47%.
• 16:41
  Philip Pape: So even people who stayed on medication, their relapse was 47%, which is actually higher than the group that had the therapy, but then came off the therapy.
• 16:50
  Philip Pape: Does that make sense?
• 16:51
  Philip Pape: So they did better after stopping therapy than the other group did after stopping medication, and better than the group that never stopped taking medication.
• 17:00
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 17:00
  Philip Pape: Powerful stuff.
• 17:02
  Philip Pape: Now, that is depression.
• 17:04
  Philip Pape: That is not fat loss.
• 17:05
  Philip Pape: I'm not going to pretend it transfers.
• 17:07
  Philip Pape: All of this stuff is these different disciplines, but it does show that some that it's possible that something that ends, like a training program or a nutrition program or some sort of coaching or therapy or whatever, can still work after it ends.
• 17:25
  Philip Pape: As long as what you got from it was a skill or skills and not just a like a static plan or schedule or set of things to do.
• 17:37
  Philip Pape: Like they were telling you what to do, but not teaching you how to do it.
• 17:39
  Philip Pape: That's the difference.
• 17:40
  Philip Pape: You need to learn how to do it.
• 17:41
  Philip Pape: And I think of medication as like they're not teaching you to do anything, they're just giving you a drug, right?
• 17:46
  Philip Pape: It's just doing it's doing something for you, let's say.
• 17:49
  Philip Pape: So that's more or less my argument today.
• 17:51
  Philip Pape: It was never really about how long, at least, not the way that we argue about it online all the time.
• 17:56
  Philip Pape: It's really whether you learned anything during the time you were in a program that you can still use afterward, and that you can prove that to yourself, which is what we're gonna get to in the next 10 minutes of the episode.
• 18:09
  Philip Pape: Now, I know some of you are listening to this show and you're saying, this is a kind of a cool argument, right?
• 18:15
  Philip Pape: But you're about to sell me your coaching program.
• 18:17
  Philip Pape: Uh, and isn't that a little convenient?
• 18:19
  Philip Pape: And that is totally fair.
• 18:20
  Philip Pape: So instead of pitching you, what I want to tell you is about how we designed our program, just so you understand how it ties to this research and why I think it's important that service providers, that business owners, that coaches think about these things thoughtfully when they design how they're going to deliver the service.
• 18:40
  Philip Pape: So I've got a lot of coaches who listen to this program, but even if you're not a coach, you are looking for coaches probably.
• 18:46
  Philip Pape: And you've got to look for these things whether you hire me or not.
• 18:48
  Philip Pape: So our program is called Eat More Lift Heavy.
• 18:50
  Philip Pape: You can check out the details without buying anything, go to eatmoreliftheavy.com.
• 18:54
  Philip Pape: It goes for 26 weeks.
• 18:55
  Philip Pape: Now that is a half a year.
• 18:57
  Philip Pape: That's a decent commitment.
• 18:58
  Philip Pape: And then it technically ends.
• 19:00
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 19:01
  Philip Pape: And I I have that in air quotes that you can't see because, as with all things, process personal improvement never ends.
• 19:08
  Philip Pape: But my design for getting you the skills that you need at a minimum definitely ends.
• 19:13
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 19:14
  Philip Pape: So by week 25, no, in week 25, we have what's called a graduation readiness checklist.
• 19:20
  Philip Pape: It is a scored self-assessment.
• 19:22
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you do have to use quit do tick quizzes in my program.
• 19:24
  Philip Pape: I'm sorry, you have to do some work where you rate yourself across these skills and it tells you which ones you're still weak on.
• 19:31
  Philip Pape: It's just a self-assessment, it does it immediately.
• 19:33
  Philip Pape: You don't have to wait for somebody to review it or anything.
• 19:35
  Philip Pape: It's all, it's something I coded, it's software, which means part of what that tool does is tell you maybe you're not ready in these couple areas, but you're ready in all these other areas.
• 19:44
  Philip Pape: And it's based on your own self-assessment.
• 19:46
  Philip Pape: So it's not like trying to, you know, deceive you.
• 19:49
  Philip Pape: Like if you say you're good on everything, it's probably gonna pair it back.
• 19:51
  Philip Pape: Hey, you're good on everything.
• 19:53
  Philip Pape: So that's right near the end.
• 19:54
  Philip Pape: Now, if we go back, reverse engineer this back in week 20 of the 26 weeks, we have something about teaching yourself where what you have to do, it's kind of fun, is explain what you've learned in your own words.
• 20:08
  Philip Pape: We give you specific questions and prompts.
• 20:10
  Philip Pape: And we've had members and students post about this.
• 20:12
  Philip Pape: And it's fascinating because you see them really struggling to get this out.
• 20:16
  Philip Pape: I don't mean that in a bad way.
• 20:17
  Philip Pape: I mean like you have to think about it.
• 20:18
  Philip Pape: And can you explain how you know what your data is telling you?
• 20:23
  Philip Pape: How do you know how to deal with a weight loss plateau, right?
• 20:26
  Philip Pape: Like those kinds of things.
• 20:27
  Philip Pape: Like, how do you know this system is going to work for you?
• 20:29
  Philip Pape: And then we kind of review that with you to make sure you really do know.
• 20:33
  Philip Pape: So I think that's awesome.
• 20:35
  Philip Pape: And as I mentioned, like it's 26 weeks that the idea is to give you skills.
• 20:40
  Philip Pape: And we're we're talking about that process today, in a sense, and like the philosophy behind why that's important.
• 20:46
  Philip Pape: That doesn't mean that you wouldn't then want a community or coach on top of that or for longer, or indefinitely if you wanted to, to give you that second pair of eyes, right?
• 20:56
  Philip Pape: But that's different than needing someone to tell you what to do.
• 20:59
  Philip Pape: That's the distinction I'm trying to make today.
• 21:02
  Philip Pape: So if I were to pitch you, I'd say, hey, we're coming up on episode 500 in the next episode.
• 21:08
  Philip Pape: So we have a little code for you.
• 21:09
  Philip Pape: It's 500 club, gets you $50 off the six-month options.
• 21:13
  Philip Pape: No pressure either way.
• 21:14
  Philip Pape: If it's a line for you, great.
• 21:15
  Philip Pape: If not, keep listening to the podcast.
• 21:17
  Philip Pape: Go to eatmoreliftheavy.com.
• 21:19
  Philip Pape: Go to eatmorliftheavy.com.
• 21:22
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 21:23
  Philip Pape: I want to get into the four skills of body recomp.
• 21:26
  Philip Pape: And I'm going to tell you how much I weight each one or how much I trust each one.
• 21:29
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 21:30
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 21:30
  Philip Pape: So skill number one is reading your own data, your own trends, and acting on it.
• 21:37
  Philip Pape: Now, this is the highest evidence skill on the list.
• 21:40
  Philip Pape: We know that frequent self weighing, when you read it back as a trend, as opposed to a daily taking the daily snapshots of your weight and freaking out.
• 21:49
  Philip Pape: So when you take it as a smoothed average or a trend over time, we see this over and over in randomized human trials that there is a huge Advantage to this.
• 22:00
  Philip Pape: So Steinberg is one of the studies that found daily weighers lost meaningfully more over six months than people who weighed less often.
• 22:09
  Philip Pape: There's a maintenance study by Goki LaRose and colleagues.
• 22:13
  Philip Pape: I'm probably butchering the name, where over a maintenance period, the daily weighers were still slightly losing weight, 0.18 kilograms in my notes.
• 22:24
  Philip Pape: And the weekly weights gained 0.37 pounds.
• 22:28
  Philip Pape: So opposite directions, meaning they were losing weight if they were weighing every day.
• 22:32
  Philip Pape: They weren't, they were gaining weight if they were doing it once a week.
• 22:35
  Philip Pape: And I guess the caveat to all of this here is that people who weigh daily, by definition, are probably more engaged with the process.
• 22:46
  Philip Pape: And people who are engaged with the process in this way tend to get better results anyway.
• 22:51
  Philip Pape: Now that's not to take away from the results.
• 22:53
  Philip Pape: That only reinforces it in my mind.
• 22:55
  Philip Pape: And research researchers try to separate those.
• 22:59
  Philip Pape: It's hard to do, but even without separating them, you could draw some good proxy type conclusions, I guess is the way to put it.
• 23:07
  Philip Pape: So the skill here is not that hard to develop.
• 23:11
  Philip Pape: It's that you can engage in the process with a regular and frequent form of measurement that is low friction, low friction.
• 23:21
  Philip Pape: So like weighing it, weighing yourself every day isn't that hard.
• 23:24
  Philip Pape: I mean, you get on the scale and there it is.
• 23:25
  Philip Pape: You have a Bluetooth scale, even easier.
• 23:27
  Philip Pape: Beam it over to your phone and it can connect in Apple and Google Health to everything, right?
• 23:31
  Philip Pape: That that's super easy.
• 23:31
  Philip Pape: I mean, if you can't do that for five seconds, I don't know what to say.
• 23:35
  Philip Pape: But even like food tracking, right?
• 23:37
  Philip Pape: We recommend Macro Factor because it's the fastest app and it takes a lot less friction than other apps, for example.
• 23:42
  Philip Pape: And then when you're doing that every day, it it it itself, by definition, is start is holding you a bit more accountable to the process because you're engaged.
• 23:51
  Philip Pape: And once you do that, what's awesome is you have the amazing side effect of multiple weeks and months of data where you can now turn that into a trend and see what's actually happening.
• 24:04
  Philip Pape: Are you actually gaining or losing body fat?
• 24:06
  Philip Pape: Not as you wait up or down randomly here or there.
• 24:09
  Philip Pape: That's useless.
• 24:10
  Philip Pape: Are you actually getting enough protein and fiber and all the micronutrients?
• 24:14
  Philip Pape: What is your trend against, you know, your food patterns?
• 24:17
  Philip Pape: Are you actually eating the way you want on the weekends or when you're on vacation or whatever?
• 24:21
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 24:22
  Philip Pape: And the list goes on and on and on.
• 24:23
  Philip Pape: Having that data is just super powerful.
• 24:25
  Philip Pape: Skill number two, skill number two is setting a trigger, a trigger point, okay, a trigger, like an action before you need it.
• 24:33
  Philip Pape: So being proactive.
• 24:35
  Philip Pape: A lot of people don't have this.
• 24:37
  Philip Pape: And what it means is you decide in advance what engineers say or computer programmers, if-then statements, if-then, like an if-then form.
• 24:46
  Philip Pape: What will you do when something happens?
• 24:47
  Philip Pape: If this happens, I will do this.
• 24:49
  Philip Pape: That's what I mean by a trigger.
• 24:50
  Philip Pape: And I don't mean like getting triggered, right?
• 24:53
  Philip Pape: I mean an inflection point, like a catalyst.
• 24:56
  Philip Pape: Oh man, I get I'm not good with my words today, but you get what I'm saying.
• 25:00
  Philip Pape: An if-then decision point.
• 25:02
  Philip Pape: Now we look at research by Gollitzer and Sheeran.
• 25:05
  Philip Pape: They took a meta-analysis of 94 tests with more than 8,000 people, and they found a medium-to-large effect on whether people actually did the thing they meant to do.
• 25:15
  Philip Pape: Meaning, among people who actually planned in advance and had if-then strategies ready to go, that alone had a huge effect on whether people stuck to their behavior change, to their habits, to whatever the thing that they're trying to do.
• 25:31
  Philip Pape: That's pretty significant.
• 25:32
  Philip Pape: Now, when we look at eating specifically, the effect shrinks a little bit in the research.
• 25:36
  Philip Pape: There's a meta-analysis by Adrians, it's two A's in there.
• 25:40
  Philip Pape: I do not know how to pronounce that.
• 25:42
  Philip Pape: That found point a 0.51 effect for adding a food that you want more of.
• 25:48
  Philip Pape: So, in other words, planning ahead to include more foods you want, and only a 0.29 effect for cutting a food that you want less of.
• 25:57
  Philip Pape: That is amazing.
• 25:59
  Philip Pape: Did you hear what I just said?
• 26:00
  Philip Pape: In other words, it's far better to have a strategy that plans to eat what you want, i.e., more protein, than to cut out what you don't, i.e., skip the cookies.
• 26:12
  Philip Pape: How consistent is that with what we talk about on the show all the time?
• 26:15
  Philip Pape: Additive nutrition, adding things in, thinking and planning ahead to have what you want to have, not to cut out what you want to cut out.
• 26:22
  Philip Pape: Very different mindset, very different impact on the human brain.
• 26:25
  Philip Pape: When researchers measure objective behavior over longer periods instead of just self-reporting, it seems to be even more of an effect.
• 26:33
  Philip Pape: So it works really, really well.
• 26:34
  Philip Pape: Now, what does that look like?
• 26:36
  Philip Pape: Well, before let's say a fat loss phase starts, I mean, honestly, I wouldn't even wait for a fat loss phase.
• 26:41
  Philip Pape: You just do this now.
• 26:42
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 26:42
  Philip Pape: But let's let's take fat loss as an example, and you know when you want to end the fat loss phase, let's say at a certain number, certain number of weeks, or whatever.
• 26:51
  Philip Pape: If your trend weight hasn't moved in, let's say three weeks and your adherence is above 80%, if that, then go to maintenance for two weeks.
• 27:00
  Philip Pape: That isn't a good example of a very specific if-then statement.
• 27:04
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 27:04
  Philip Pape: If my weight has stalled basically for three weeks, but my adherence is really good, I'm gonna go to maintenance for two weeks, like a diet break.
• 27:11
  Philip Pape: And when I see people on social media oftentimes talking about, hey, I've been losing weight pretty steadily, or I just started to hit a wall after losing some weight.
• 27:19
  Philip Pape: I really want to lose more.
• 27:20
  Philip Pape: What do I do?
• 27:20
  Philip Pape: My first inclination, not knowing any other context, is hey, maybe you just need a break.
• 27:24
  Philip Pape: Maybe you do.
• 27:25
  Philip Pape: I don't know all the details, but that's like where my brain goes first without knowing the context.
• 27:29
  Philip Pape: But if you have a specific strategy, that's very helpful.
• 27:32
  Philip Pape: And you write it down before it happens.
• 27:34
  Philip Pape: You put it in your plan.
• 27:35
  Philip Pape: Now, if that sounds like too much work, I'm sorry.
• 27:38
  Philip Pape: It's gonna cost you a lot more if you don't have that in your plan later on, in frustration, not knowing what to do, going the wrong direction, giving up.
• 27:45
  Philip Pape: Because a lot of people wait till things are bad and then they're in a bad mood and then they're hungry or hangry.
• 27:51
  Philip Pape: That's the worst time possible time to be making a call about this stuff, right?
• 27:54
  Philip Pape: Because that's your emotional.
• 27:56
  Philip Pape: So that's skill number two, setting the trigger before you need it.
• 27:59
  Philip Pape: So the if-then strategies, and I'm keeping these fairly high level, guys, because each of these can go into its own podcast episode and you can go into all sorts of details about it.
• 28:08
  Philip Pape: Um, but these are the skills that we teach, at least in our program.
• 28:11
  Philip Pape: Skill number three is getting back to normal after a disruption.
• 28:15
  Philip Pape: This is really powerful.
• 28:16
  Philip Pape: So I was inclined to put this on the top, but again, I'm ranking them by the order of how much evidence I could find in the actual recent literature.
• 28:24
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 28:24
  Philip Pape: The problem isn't that you're going on vacation for a week or two, all right?
• 28:28
  Philip Pape: Almost nobody, almost nobody's problem is the vacation.
• 28:31
  Philip Pape: Let me explain why.
• 28:32
  Philip Pape: Here's a study that I really love because I think it addresses a myth that everybody repeats.
• 28:37
  Philip Pape: Yanofsky and colleagues, published in the New England Journal in 2000, followed 90, 195, about 195 adults through the holidays.
• 28:46
  Philip Pape: Now, there's this claim that you see online that people gain five or 10 pounds between Thanksgiving and New Year's.
• 28:53
  Philip Pape: The actual average gain is a half a kilo, a kilogram.
• 28:57
  Philip Pape: So that's roughly a pound.
• 28:59
  Philip Pape: Fewer than one in 10 actually gained more than five pounds.
• 29:04
  Philip Pape: So it's actually quite tiny.
• 29:06
  Philip Pape: And I think the more important thing is that they just didn't lose the weight afterward.
• 29:13
  Philip Pape: So year after year after year, that is how people end up 10 pounds heavier by the time they're say 45 or 50 years old.
• 29:20
  Philip Pape: Not from one bad holiday stretch, but from an accumulation of years after years of slowly drifting.
• 29:27
  Philip Pape: Now, the the cause, there are multiple causes of this, but one big root cause is overcorrection.
• 29:33
  Philip Pape: That's why I'm talking about this skill.
• 29:35
  Philip Pape: Again, the skill we're talking about is getting back to normal after disruption.
• 29:38
  Philip Pape: So you have a weekend where you go out to eat and you're just out of control.
• 29:43
  Philip Pape: Happens all of us, right?
• 29:45
  Philip Pape: You're with friends, they get the drinks, the appetizers, the dinner, the dessert.
• 29:48
  Philip Pape: Or yeah, no, let's just go with that scenario.
• 29:51
  Philip Pape: And then you're like, oh, I blew it, I'm guilty.
• 29:53
  Philip Pape: Like, I can't believe I did that again.
• 29:54
  Philip Pape: It was fun, but I overeat yet again.
• 29:57
  Philip Pape: What do I do?
• 29:58
  Philip Pape: Slash my calories on Monday.
• 30:00
  Philip Pape: And now you're trying to be kind of hungry, you know, knowing that hunger implies you're in a deficit.
• 30:05
  Philip Pape: And then you're starving by Wednesday, and then you're in a big hole by Friday, and the hunger actually leads to the binging on Saturday, actually.
• 30:12
  Philip Pape: And that pattern, which is a very familiar pattern to a lot of us, it has a formal name in the addiction literature.
• 30:18
  Philip Pape: It's called the abstinence violation effect.
• 30:22
  Philip Pape: The abstinence violation effect.
• 30:24
  Philip Pape: And it's that you're reacting to this lapse itself, this abstinence doing the damage rather than the lapse itself.
• 30:31
  Philip Pape: And this is has some similarities to the flexible versus rigid restraint work as well.
• 30:36
  Philip Pape: The research that finds that people who diet flexibly hold onto their weight loss better than people who diet rigidly.
• 30:42
  Philip Pape: And the conclusion for this, as far as skill building goes, is when you come back from a day, a weekend, a vacation where you've maybe not behaved the way you wanted to behave.
• 30:54
  Philip Pape: Maybe you binge, maybe you overate, whatever, doesn't matter.
• 30:56
  Philip Pape: The easiest thing to do is go straight back to your normal targets, as opposed to overcorrecting and trying to offset or make up for that with even lower or tighter or more restrictive targets.
• 31:09
  Philip Pape: You know, everybody does that with training just fine.
• 31:12
  Philip Pape: They come back to the training and they might reset a little bit, which is actually going even lighter than your previous targets.
• 31:18
  Philip Pape: They don't say, Oh, I just was off for a week of training.
• 31:20
  Philip Pape: I need to go up by even more than I would have gone up now.
• 31:23
  Philip Pape: Nobody does that.
• 31:24
  Philip Pape: And yet you do that with the food for some reason.
• 31:27
  Philip Pape: You come back and you're like, well, I'm gonna cut calories like 500 more calories to make up for it.
• 31:31
  Philip Pape: That's the equivalent of doing that.
• 31:33
  Philip Pape: Okay, so don't do that.
• 31:35
  Philip Pape: All right, skill number four is troubleshooting a stall and doing it in the right order of priority.
• 31:42
  Philip Pape: So this one probably has the least evidence that I could find, let's say.
• 31:46
  Philip Pape: Um, but it comes from anecdotal coaching people and from what I've seen go wrong all the time.
• 31:51
  Philip Pape: I do believe there's plenty of evidence in different areas of behavior change and self-motivation theory and habit formation and all that that still supports this, but it's hard to say that we've studied it exactly.
• 32:04
  Philip Pape: But the order that I use is adherence is at the top, then recovery, then stress, then your overall program, your lifestyle program, whatever your nutrition training, et cetera, then patience.
• 32:18
  Philip Pape: And this is what we teach in Eat More Lift Heavy.
• 32:21
  Philip Pape: Just those five things in order to go through them as like a checklist anytime you stall to see where the problem is.
• 32:27
  Philip Pape: So we start with adherence.
• 32:29
  Philip Pape: And this has evidence behind it.
• 32:30
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 32:31
  Philip Pape: Lichtman and colleagues published a study in the New England Journal in 1992 on people who were convinced they were resistant to diets, they were weight loss resistant, and they measured them.
• 32:40
  Philip Pape: And basically, these folks underreported what they were eating by about 47%, and they over-reported their activity by about 51%, and their metabolic rate came back to normal within about 5% of predicted.
• 32:52
  Philip Pape: Their metabolism was fine.
• 32:53
  Philip Pape: Uh, and they were not lying, by the way.
• 32:55
  Philip Pape: They're the the the view they had of their own intake was just not correct, but they genuinely believed it.
• 33:01
  Philip Pape: And that is why adherence tends to be the first thing to go.
• 33:05
  Philip Pape: It's also why you should be suspicious of yourself, not as a character flaw, I'm not judging you, but as a natural human trait.
• 33:13
  Philip Pape: It's very hard to see your own behaviors accurately, your own, you know, calorie intake, your own training, whatever.
• 33:21
  Philip Pape: That's why we go back to skill number one, which is tracking and measuring.
• 33:25
  Philip Pape: So you have objective data that no matter how much your brain's trying to fight it, it's staring you in the face.
• 33:30
  Philip Pape: It's cold, hard logic.
• 33:31
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 33:31
  Philip Pape: So adherence is first.
• 33:33
  Philip Pape: Like, are you actually doing the thing consistently?
• 33:36
  Philip Pape: And by having skill number one in place, you'll know it.
• 33:38
  Philip Pape: Now you see.
• 33:40
  Philip Pape: Then we have recovery, then stress, because those are pretty easy to check.
• 33:45
  Philip Pape: I mean, you pretty much know what's going on in your life and whether your recovery is poor, your energy, or I mean, that's that's energy, that's hunger, that's digestion, that's soreness, you know, and then stress I put as its own thing.
• 33:55
  Philip Pape: Oh, sleep, right?
• 33:56
  Philip Pape: Of course.
• 33:57
  Philip Pape: All of that's kind of in that bucket.
• 33:58
  Philip Pape: You can combine them if you want.
• 34:00
  Philip Pape: Super common issues here.
• 34:02
  Philip Pape: Then it's your program.
• 34:03
  Philip Pape: A lot of people put that first, right?
• 34:05
  Philip Pape: They say, Oh, I need to change my program, I need to change my plan.
• 34:08
  Philip Pape: Don't do that, don't do that.
• 34:09
  Philip Pape: Check these other things first and then see if it isn't the structure of the program that maybe isn't good for you.
• 34:13
  Philip Pape: And then I put patience last because what you might find is all these other things are fine.
• 34:20
  Philip Pape: I'm just not being patient.
• 34:22
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 34:23
  Philip Pape: So now maybe you could put that at the top if you're for certain people, but sometimes the answer is that eight weeks isn't long enough for what you're trying to do and you need to do three more weeks.
• 34:33
  Philip Pape: I'm sorry, that could just be the reality of it.
• 34:35
  Philip Pape: But if you have all these skills in place and you go through that order of troubleshooting, you're gonna be in a much better place than the average person who just does the changes the wrong things and they change it as a knee-jerk reaction.
• 34:44
  Philip Pape: So I want to recap the four skills just real quickly.
• 34:47
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 34:48
  Philip Pape: Number one, that you can read your own data, your own trend of data because you've been actually tracking and measuring, and then say what you can conclude from that data.
• 34:58
  Philip Pape: That's a very, very important skill, the most important skill on this list, probably that leads to the rest.
• 35:03
  Philip Pape: Number two, you've got your if-then strategies or your triggers written down in advance before you need them.
• 35:10
  Philip Pape: Okay, you don't have to have 50 of these.
• 35:11
  Philip Pape: You can have just one to start and then another and another, build on it.
• 35:15
  Philip Pape: Number three, you know how to come back from a disruption, just getting back to normal instead of overcorrecting or punishing yourself.
• 35:22
  Philip Pape: And number four, when things do stall, you think of adherence first, then recovery, then stress, then the program, and finally, are you being patient enough?
• 35:31
  Philip Pape: And just go in that order.
• 35:32
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 35:33
  Philip Pape: So that's it.
• 35:33
  Philip Pape: Those four are pretty much the whole thing.
• 35:34
  Philip Pape: Now you're like, well, that's that's a big that's like changing my whole life.
• 35:37
  Philip Pape: And you know, I'll be honest, most of you are solid on maybe the first one and the second one.
• 35:41
  Philip Pape: If that, maybe you're shaky on the other two, but that means you have two specific skills to work on.
• 35:46
  Philip Pape: So figure out the one that's the one for you to work on.
• 35:49
  Philip Pape: Now, before we wrap up, I have the thing I told you earlier that you can write down in two minutes to save you six weeks.
• 35:57
  Philip Pape: Before I do, I want to say one more thing about timing here because we are coming up on episode 500.
• 36:02
  Philip Pape: If you've been thinking about eatmore lift heavy, go to eatmoreliftheavy.com.
• 36:06
  Philip Pape: We have a code 500CLUB.
• 36:08
  Philip Pape: Expires this Sunday, September 6th, and it's not coming back.
• 36:12
  Philip Pape: You'll get 50 bucks off to celebrate episode 500 on the six month options for eatmore lift heavy, either the base version or dialed in.
• 36:21
  Philip Pape: So go to eatmoreliftheavy.com to know what the heck I'm talking about.
• 36:24
  Philip Pape: Now, if you start the week of, say, September 7th, it's pretty good timing because the first six or seven weeks, we get this some of these skills set up.
• 36:32
  Philip Pape: Then you do a fat loss, if that's your goal.
• 36:35
  Philip Pape: For many of you it's not, but for many of you it is, which would start around the end of October and go all the way through January.
• 36:40
  Philip Pape: So you're basically going through the holidays, testing yourself, getting those skills in place, doing it successfully, not going off the rails like a lot of people.
• 36:47
  Philip Pape: And now you're not quote unquote starting over on New Year's like everyone else, right?
• 36:50
  Philip Pape: In fact, you're gonna be in a good position to get ready for either direction leading into the summer.
• 36:55
  Philip Pape: So you look and feel your best.
• 36:57
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 36:57
  Philip Pape: So go to eatmoreliftheavy.com.
• 36:59
  Philip Pape: And by the way, the next episode is 500.
• 37:02
  Philip Pape: So I've got a specific topic plan for that that I think you're gonna really enjoy.
• 37:06
  Philip Pape: Basically, it's five beliefs that I no longer believe you're gonna find that interesting.
• 37:10
  Philip Pape: All right, so here's something you can write down in the next two minutes to save you six weeks at some point this year before your next phase starts.
• 37:19
  Philip Pape: So for many of you, that is a fat loss phase.
• 37:21
  Philip Pape: It could be a muscle building phase, it could be a maintenance phase or body recomp.
• 37:26
  Philip Pape: I want you to decide the exit condition ahead of time and write it down as an if-then statement.
• 37:31
  Philip Pape: So we talked about this already as one of the skills, but now I'm having you do the homework for yourself right now.
• 37:37
  Philip Pape: Something like if my trend weight hasn't moved in three weeks and I've been hitting my targets at least 80% of the days, go to maintenance for two weeks.
• 37:44
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 37:45
  Philip Pape: Now again, that is that is you deciding your exit condition if things aren't going the way you want.
• 37:51
  Philip Pape: That's what I'm talking about.
• 37:52
  Philip Pape: I'm not talking about the actual final true exit of the fat loss phase.
• 37:55
  Philip Pape: I want you to write this down because the alternative is you're gonna choose this at the wrong time when you're driven by emotions.
• 38:03
  Philip Pape: And we know there's great research on this, I mentioned before, and we don't want to try to be disciplined.
• 38:10
  Philip Pape: We don't want to try to be disciplined.
• 38:11
  Philip Pape: We want to let our future selves give ourselves some, you know, grace, some help, some support by saying, hey, will you, you, you've got this.
• 38:18
  Philip Pape: When this happens, I've already got a plan for you, buddy, out in the future.
• 38:22
  Philip Pape: Okay, so go ahead and do that.
• 38:23
  Philip Pape: If you're wondering exactly how to do that, just reach out.
• 38:27
  Philip Pape: The best way to reach out is go to witsandweights.com slash email, join my list and just reply to my email and we'll get into a conversation about it.
• 38:33
  Philip Pape: Until next time, keep using your wits, lifting those weights.
• 38:36
  Philip Pape: And remember the question was never never whether you have a coach, it's whether you can do it without one.
• 38:41
  Philip Pape: Those are two different things with two different answers.
• 38:43
  Philip Pape: I'm Philip Pape, and I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits and Weights podcast.