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You Were Finally Feeling Better… So Why Does It Feel Like Hell Again? | Divorce Healing · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

0:50
SPEAKER_03: Darlings.
0:50
SPEAKER_03: I would like it to be story time.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: I love story time.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: They can't see your faces.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I want you to tell me a story about yourself or one of the women we work with, where either you or they had a moment where they thought they were doing so much better in their healing journey and then suddenly not.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: Like feeling worse, like feeling like you took 10 steps backwards.
1:18
SPEAKER_03: What comes to mind?
1:25
SPEAKER_03: Hi, love.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorce day.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: For me, it happened when I started a new remedy.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: And I remember I had started this new remedy that you had given me.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: And I was lying on my couch one night, and everybody had gone out to dinner and like the kids were off doing their thing.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, I was by myself.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: So I was, I was sitting on the couch and I took this remedy.
2:12
SPEAKER_02: And about 20 minutes later, there was this unrest in me like I have not felt in a really long time.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: And it was so uncomfortable.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And I was trying to numb it out with Real Housewives.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I was like, I'm paying attention to the show.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: It's cool.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: I got it.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: I got it.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden, I just I could not anymore.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: And I literally came back to my bedroom and I got a journal out.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: And I journaled for the first time in probably five or six years, and it all just came pouring out.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: And it was this very young, exiled part of me who was feeling like she just wanted to be seen.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: It was four-year-old me.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: And she was just tugging and tugging at my heartstrings.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: And it was like all of this came pouring out of me.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: And in that moment, I realized like it kind of scared me because I'm like, oh shit.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Like I haven't felt anxiety like this in a really long time and unrest.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't focus on anything.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: And so it was one of those moments where I kind of scared myself a little bit because I'm like, wow, like there's still some pretty deep stuff in here that needs to come out.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: And that felt scary for me because I've always said this in my healing.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, if the stuff I remember is bad enough, what am I not remembering?
3:23
SPEAKER_04: Well said.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: And I think what a lot of women fear and I hear is that I'm afraid when I open up Pandora's box, I'm never going to be able to close it again.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: That's really good.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: And let's circle back to that in this episode because I have some science, some very real brain science, which we are going to put all the links in the show notes to the research that I'm going to discuss.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: But uh there's some really good science that says you don't actually have to be afraid of that.
3:52
SPEAKER_03: But that is something people say over and over and over again.
3:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_03: If yeah, I'm so afraid of what I'm gonna learn about myself or my family or whomever, right?
4:00
SPEAKER_03: If I start to remember.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why a lot of people struggle with finding a practitioner or a therapist that really works for them, because for me it was all about trust.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: So, like when I met Don, I had been told for years, like I mean, decades that I needed EMDR, but I never trusted somebody enough to take me to the dark parts and not leave me there.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: And so I think a lot of that initial work in the very beginning of working with clients is building enough trust to assure them, like, hey, we're gonna take you there, but we're not gonna leave you there either.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
4:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay, Joey, your turn.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Storytime.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: I think um I'm kind of in a weird moment.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: I started a new remedy, so I'm literally there in this moment.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of it is I still I find myself needing my mom, like that little girl needing my mom's approval, my mom's love, my mom's attention, my mom's and I have come so far with my relationship with my mother and just like seeing her very clearly, loving her, and understanding she did her best.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I've come so far, but I was in church with my mom yesterday, and all I wanted was her to be happy for me, um, be proud of me, be proud of the mom I am, and all she can do is not that, right?
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Not not that.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: So I get frustrated with myself because I have going to the hardware store to buy a gallon of milk and they don't sell milk at the hardware store.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And like it's um we we play a little silly game about um what's what's your name?
5:48
SPEAKER_01: What's your what's your glass dressing, like your stage name or uh whatever it was.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, salad dressing, yeah.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Your salad dressing and your your what disappoints your parents the most.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: Your supername is your favorite salad dressing.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: What disappoints your parents the most about and then mine mine was ranch and existing, and that's literally I'm really sad with it because I it came off, it popped off quick, and I kind of joked with myself and that was aha, so funny.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: But like as I've kind of dug into why was that the first thought?
6:22
SPEAKER_01: And it really like and then you know, then I become small again, and I I want my mom to love a little me and want me and be proud of me, and then so I'm literally in that moment of feeling like those words back right feeling like I'm backsliding or uh such a Baptist Christian term, like but like stepping backwards.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Phrases so triggering backsliding into the pits of hell.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, I just you know, it's it's true.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: It's it's sometimes it feels like 10 steps forward and a couple steps backwards, and when those couple steps backwards are just kind of defeating in that moment.
7:07
SPEAKER_03: So I love that you said like 10 steps forward, two steps back.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: I think that's so much of how our the women we work with experience it.
7:17
SPEAKER_03: I can think of so many women who not only does it feel hard, I think we feel self-pity when it happens, right?
7:24
SPEAKER_03: Like, why do I have to keep doing this work?
7:25
SPEAKER_03: Especially if your ex isn't doing any of this work.
7:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
7:29
SPEAKER_03: It's like again, I'm the strong one again, I'm the responsible one again, I'm the one that's right.
7:34
SPEAKER_03: Like, there's an there's an amount of self-pity that comes up.
7:37
SPEAKER_03: I also think there's a crap load of self-doubt that comes up, right?
7:40
SPEAKER_03: Like, what if this healing shit isn't working?
7:42
SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna dispel all of that with science.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: We're going to use science today.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: Um, very excited about the science.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: I want to sing Bill Nye, the science guy.
7:54
SPEAKER_03: Go ahead.
7:55
SPEAKER_03: Right?
7:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we were watching a show recently.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: What was it where Bill Nye was one of the, oh, it was like an NCISE show.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: It's like some FBI show.
8:04
SPEAKER_03: Have y'all watched it?
8:05
SPEAKER_03: And then one of the FBI employees, her dad was Bill Nye.
8:09
SPEAKER_03: So, like all the episodes, not all of them, but like many of them.
8:12
SPEAKER_03: We got to have Bill Nye as like a guest star in the show.
8:15
SPEAKER_03: Super.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, um, yeah, but I think so much comes up, right?
8:22
SPEAKER_03: And something that we talk about a good bit over here behind the scenes is about how healing happens in layers.
8:31
SPEAKER_03: And I think we've mentioned it in like maybe two other episodes in the history, like in the 330-something episode journey that is Dear Divorce Diary.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: I think we've talked about healing in layers like maybe a couple of times, but it really is what happens.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: We think of ourselves so much more straightforward or linearly, and we keep thinking that there's a there, we're just gonna get there, and then all of a sudden, like the clouds are gonna part and there's gonna be no more healing to do.
8:57
SPEAKER_03: Or I don't know, I'm gonna get, I don't know.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: Do you relate to what I'm saying at all?
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, because our clients say that all the time.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: They're like, Do I have to feel like this for the rest of my life?
9:07
SPEAKER_02: No, but you have to continue to do the work the rest of your life.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: And so it's kind of explaining to them that look, like me, Don, and Joy, we still get triggered in the course of our lives, but the difference now is we're able to call it out quicker.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: We don't shove it down.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, we regulate ourselves much quicker.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: So instead of sitting in these rabbit holes for days, weeks, months, we're sitting in it sometimes for a span of hours or even less, you know, like there's some stuff that I just know where the work needs to be done and I do it.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: And that's the difference.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: So, no, you you don't have to be sad all the time.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: And I can regulate so much faster than I used to be able to, where I'd sit in this shit for just like weeks on end.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and like and wake up wallow, right?
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Like use the term wallow.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:50
SPEAKER_02: And I I remembered when I first started being able to wake up in the morning and not feeling anxiety.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: That was a weird feeling for me because every morning when I'd open my eyes, I'd have this pit in my stomach.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: And now when I wake up and it's just nothing but calm, I'm like, whoa, this feels weird too.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: And then you and then you have to regulate to the new reality.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: Like the calm.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's where our clients get, right?
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Like I had a client recently that said that.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: She texted me.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: We were two, I've only met with her for two sessions, and she was like, Is this what I'm supposed to feel like?
10:20
SPEAKER_02: Is this what normal people feel like when they have like normal blood pressure and like I'm not freaking out every second?
10:25
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yes, honey, this is this is what normal feels like.
10:29
unknown: Yeah.
10:29
unknown: Right.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: But then it adds another layer of the city.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: What remedies is she on?
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: To me, it added a whole nother layer of grief because then I grieved that I hadn't felt like that the whole time.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that you spent your whole life feeling a mess.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it's just it is very layered.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: It's like a coconut creamy cake, which is my favorite.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I compare it to.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: You know what I cling to whenever I've gotten into like the self-pity of it all?
11:02
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, the bigger the burden, the bigger the prize.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Like there we go.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, there's this epiphany that I feel like all of our clients have that once they realize, hey, we're here right now, then it becomes, why did I live like that for so long?
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: And then that becomes their new rumination for a while of like, how did I allow myself to be treated this way?
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Why did I stay with him so long, stay in these friendships, put up with my family, like whatever the case is, right?
11:32
SPEAKER_02: So it is very layered.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: But like I said, once you get in it and you move through it, it does become easier over time.
11:40
SPEAKER_02: Way easier over time.
11:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so y'all are just so genius.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: You've managed to talk about the three different concepts, like you've referenced them, the three different concepts I want to anchor back to in science or in trauma theory, right?
11:54
SPEAKER_03: So let me just map those out for a moment because you've referenced them, but let's like talk about what they are, right?
12:01
SPEAKER_03: So the first one is when we're processing old painful experiences, and stay tuned for our Thursday episode about where the need to feel chosen rather than feeling like you're powerful enough to choose.
12:13
SPEAKER_03: Stay tuned for our Thursday episode because we're gonna unpack and this science applies to that so much.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: But when we're processing old painful experiences, and we're um like in EMDR or IFS or using remedies or whatever it is, EFT tapping, when we're revisiting old memories and we're doing it from a higher perspective, or we're unlocking the thing that's frozen or blocked, right?
12:37
SPEAKER_03: Because in trauma we have fight, flight, freeze, fawn.
12:40
SPEAKER_03: And so when we're thawing that response and we're reprocessing this memory, but the thing is that the brain updates in pieces, not all at once.
12:52
SPEAKER_03: And so we're never gonna get at the whole memory and clear the whole negative memory in one or usually even two sessions.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: Like it it takes uh, you know, revisiting and revisiting and revisiting because the brain um and the way it reconsolidates happens in chunks.
13:12
SPEAKER_03: So we have some links in there, some research um from Bruce Ecker about uh, you know, how the emotional brain gets unlocked.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: We have some memory reconsolidation research linked in the show notes and how that shows up in psychotherapy.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: So just know that uh we're often like sort of lying to ourselves about how quick we want the healing process to go because it's a journey, right?
13:35
SPEAKER_03: And what dictates how quickly one's body mind moves through the healing journey is based on something Tiffany referenced earlier, how safe the nervous system perceives it is in its environment.
13:49
SPEAKER_03: Now, I don't like to get too hung up on that word safe because I think therapists have ruined us for the word safe because very often we are safe.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: We just perceive we're being threatened, and then therefore we're going at each other in the comment section of some dumb Facebook post, right?
14:05
SPEAKER_03: When we're not actually in danger.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: Real danger is like war zones, domestic violence, you know what I mean?
14:12
SPEAKER_03: Like danger.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: Um your nervous system being activated because somebody is being mean, that's not a lack of safety.
14:19
SPEAKER_03: That's you know, trauma meets, I don't know, someone who's not being accountable for their actions.
14:24
SPEAKER_03: And that's our job to to rework that, right?
14:27
SPEAKER_03: However, the the healing process process goes in layers, and we all have a window of tolerance.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna link this research in the show notes, right?
14:37
SPEAKER_03: Dan Siegel's work on the window of tolerance, Peter Levine's work on trauma discharge theory.
14:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so it's actually one of those sort of counterintuitive things that actually the better you're getting, like the healthier you're getting, the more robust your nervous system is, the safer your nervous system perceives it is, the deeper it's going to be able to go into the recovery work.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: So these deeper layers sometimes can feel actually more uncomfortable than previous layers, but that's because you've actually recovered so much that now you can tolerate shedding some other shit.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: The thing is, for my gamer ladies out there, it's leveling up, ladies.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: That's all we're doing when we're leveling up.
15:23
SPEAKER_03: Leveling up, I love it.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: We call it installing an upgrade around here, right?
15:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I feel like shit, I'm installing an upgrade.
15:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
15:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so then the third thing that we have alluded to here, but there's this sort of reality perception thing that gets all jankety for a moment, right?
15:44
SPEAKER_03: So let's say you just came out of an EMDR session or an IFS session, or you have this thing that got unlocked with a remedy.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: All of a sudden, what you thought was reality and what you're experiencing is reality are like two different things.
15:55
SPEAKER_03: And there's like an oh shit moment that was like, oh, this wasn't how I thought it was.
16:02
SPEAKER_03: And that can feel very, very intense.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: Just realizing that you were misperceiving for sometimes decades can feel really intense.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: Do y'all have any stories or things that come to mind about that?
16:14
SPEAKER_03: Or like Joey has a funny one, but like any words.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's super benign.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's all about perception or what you're and this is a super benign one, but it literally happened this morning.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: But there's also ones in relationships and family and all that.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: But the one that happened this morning was I was getting ready for work this morning, and my family camps and we're about ready to go camping, and you have to take a significant amount of water camping and blah, blah, blah, blah.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, I need to add that to the list, go get the camp, go get the jug of water for camping.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: And then it hit me.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: So our family gets the water, right?
16:49
SPEAKER_03: We get the five-gallon deliveries, and we have gallons on top of gallons on top of gallons.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: Right.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: So Joy picks the water up from our house.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: And right.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: And so, but they started ordering a brand of water that I have been prejudiced to for a good 15 years.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: For all our water snow.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I can't believe they're drinking that brand of water.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, that's so disgusting.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And like, and then, you know, her br Don um Don's husband would say, you know, grab some water.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'll drink anything but this brand because like ew.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just so prejudiced about it, prejudiced prejudice about it.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's literally been, I mean, I've offended people.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: I have like in stores, my I've embarrassed my husband, like the a million the the amount of prejudice I have about this type of water that happens to be the water that I drink every day when I'm at work because I drink the water out of Don's system every day when I come to work.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: But I'm not gonna take it home because it's disgusting.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Like when it the when it clicked over, like, oh, wait a minute, my perception that this water is disgusting, but yet I drink it every day is so dumb.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Because but how many times does that thing, the stories that you tell yourself, right?
18:06
SPEAKER_01: Like in a relationship when you your child or your friend or your family or whatever, and you're you you've told yourself a story that they're against me, that they they don't they don't, you know, like they don't like me, they gossip about me, they have all these things that you tell your stuff, but in reality, is it truly happening?
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Is it really happening, or is that your nervous system like reacting?
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: I have a good example something that's not actually there.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I have a good example of the first time I caught myself dropping into a part, like probably a firefighter part, like caught it, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_03: And this was five years ago.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: So this is post-EMDR.
18:48
SPEAKER_03: I I really in advanced EMDR training started doing more and more and more IFS.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: But it was like I caught myself doing this thing, not like my therap, not therapist facilitator or whatever.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: But I was fighting with my husband and I was so upset.
19:04
SPEAKER_03: Like we were having some conversation, he'll very often like, I process very quickly, right?
19:09
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm a like I just my brain works very fast, and his does not, as I it's like common, not everybody's brain processes so quickly.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: And so sometimes in his slowness or him not knowing what to say, or let's say I'm wound up, right?
19:23
SPEAKER_03: And then he doesn't respond quickly, and then I would get so upset, like feel dropped, right?
19:28
SPEAKER_03: Or abandoned, or like you don't care to listen, or you're just not gonna say anything.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: I just poured my heart out to you, and you're gonna say nothing, right?
19:35
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, I was like freaking out in a moment, like about to start World War III.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden it just clicked.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: Like I realized, like, oh I just shifted into a part and then I started replaying every other time in our marriage that had happened, and I was like, oh and it's like, I don't know, is it a lot of shame or like I yeah, because I feel my face getting a little hot right now, right?
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it's like when you realize that trauma brain has taken over, and then that starts to heal, and you start to have more capacity, right?
20:19
SPEAKER_03: Or mastery over the trauma patterns versus the patterns running you when you have the ability to run the patterns.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: So recognize them or shift them.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that real that need to like reevaluate, I think it hits identity, it hits like I don't know, it's very destabilizing.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: Or it can be.
20:43
SPEAKER_02: By the way, I just want to say that I remember the first time that I visited Dawn at her house and I went to grab water out of the faucet.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: She was like, What the hell are you doing?
20:52
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what are you talking about?
20:54
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'm drinking because where we live, we have the cleanest water in almost the entire country.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Like they do studies on our water where I live.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: So I just thought it was very normal to just like But you also live in the mountains and you have all these springs and like natural, right?
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Um but that that wasn't so I don't do that anymore.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Um I drink out of the bottles.
21:16
SPEAKER_03: I am very protective of my people.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: Like what like if you I don't care if you're a listener or you are my family, like just know that if you are listening to this podcast episode right now, I feel fiercely protective over you.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: And I'm going to make sure you take your vitamins and you don't drink crappy water and people aren't mean to you.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know.
21:35
SPEAKER_03: I just want to help you solve all of your problems, right?
21:38
SPEAKER_03: I am crazy protective over my people, and you are one of my people.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: All of you.
21:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:44
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
21:46
SPEAKER_03: Love that.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: Looking for looking for questions.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: Back to questions.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so we've talked about all this science, right?
21:52
SPEAKER_03: These three different things that are happening, like how memory reconsolidates, how the nervous system has a window of tolerance, and it's only going to give you things to feel that it perceives you can handle, right?
22:03
SPEAKER_03: So going back to what Tiffany said at the very top of the episode, where people get so afraid that if they start this work, that they're going to unpack something that's going to be so big and so destabilizing that it's going to ruin them.
22:14
SPEAKER_03: But actually, your body mind won't let you do that, right?
22:17
SPEAKER_03: There's like a built-in governor that it's only going to allow you to process what you have the capacity to process now, right?
22:26
SPEAKER_03: And where we see people have like develop panic disorders or really shut down or have midlife crises or have psychotic breaks, it's because they've been at that window of tolerance limit and then shit keeps piling on and keeps piling on, keeps piling on, and the system has no more capacity left, right?
22:46
SPEAKER_03: So so the window of tolerance.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: The body-mind's capacity is very much what drives this.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: So you're not going to get into crazy memories until there's enough safety or perceived safety to do that work.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: So no stress out about that.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: Um, so when this moment happens, right, where people feel worse while they're in the journey to feeling better, what do you ladies see women start to interpret about themselves when that's happening?
23:17
SPEAKER_03: Right?
23:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, what it what are the stories you see women tell themselves when they feel worse during their healing journey?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: That that they're so that they're so broken that there it's not healing's not possible.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Like they're too damaged.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: Um I've heard that a lot.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, um too damaged.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I'm I'm not good enough.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm not.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: It's not I'm always gonna feel like this.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: This is just how my life is gonna be from here on out.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: Like there's no hope at all.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: They get in a very like hopeless place.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: I was just thinking too, like, you know, that night when I was talking about being on the couch, you know, and just kind of coming in here and journaling.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: It was so different because I think that the biggest shift that I notice in women when I know that they are really starting to get a handle on the healing is when they come at it from a place of self-energy, right?
24:11
SPEAKER_02: So it's almost like I tell women when you're getting these things and these big heavy feelings that are coming up, stay curious.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: Like that night, I was just curious about what this part wanted to say.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: What is coming up?
24:23
SPEAKER_02: And it poured it out on paper.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: And it didn't take me back to being four years old.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: I didn't get stuck in the memory.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: I didn't spiral to the colour.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Didn't get swallowed by it, right?
24:31
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: That's because when you say self-energy, like what does that mean to our average listener, right?
24:36
SPEAKER_03: And so I think that very often when we get triggered.
24:40
SPEAKER_03: So in this healing journey, it's like you read my mind about my next set of questions, Tiffany, but in this healing journey, right?
24:46
SPEAKER_03: It's like women are looking for a moment where they're there, right?
24:49
SPEAKER_03: And I will say that there is a tipping point in the healing journey where you are, I'm gonna use some jargon and then we can talk about what the jargon means, but where you are mostly in self versus mostly in parts, right?
25:02
SPEAKER_03: Like mostly grounded versus mostly dysregulated, mostly regulated versus mostly dysregulated, right?
25:08
SPEAKER_03: There is a tipping point where, yeah, and that's where we're looking to get women to very quickly, right?
25:15
SPEAKER_03: Because life starts to feel very, very different when you've sort of crossed that threshold, right?
26:10
SPEAKER_03: But before you're mostly regulated or mostly grounded or mostly in self, when these doors swing open and all this content comes forward, this deeper content comes forward, sometimes it swallows people, right?
26:23
SPEAKER_03: Like so much so that they can't remember that this is just a purge.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: They can't remember that they're just clearing a new layer.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: It's like suddenly everything they're thinking and everything they're feeling feels absolutely true.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: Like all the negative thoughts and all the negative emotions feel so absolutely true, they've like lost the plot on actually you're okay and you're just clearing a new layer, right?
26:46
SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I hear you saying, Tiffany, is that when that four-year-old part of yours got triggered, you were able to recognize, oh, this is just a part of me processing something that never got processed.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: And I know that when we talk about self-energy or when people read about IFS, you know, there's eight C's.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, you're in self if you're calm and clear.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: And I just tell people, look, you know you're in self when you're aware.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: When you are aware of what is happening and what is a part and what is not, that's the beautiful part of it.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: So if you have this awareness that things are just passing through your system and they're just, they're just coming up to be processed, that's how you know you're in a good place.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: Um, can you name all of the dwarves?
27:29
SPEAKER_02: All seven dwarves.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: I cannot do the eight C's right now.
27:34
SPEAKER_03: I can't either.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: I can't ever do them.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: And I relate it to not being able to remember all seven dwarfs.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: Sleepy, happy, sneezy, doc, bashful.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, ooh, we're so close.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: Dopey, dopey.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: Dopey.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: Somebody's listening right now and they're screaming it in their car.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: I know.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: But it's even now though, like even the IFS training that I'm still continuing to take, now there's like two Ps of IFS.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you can't just keep adding shit onto that.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, so I just want a client.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: It's awareness.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: That's it, ladies.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: When you feel aware of what's happening, right?
28:07
SPEAKER_02: Like that's how that's the sweet spot.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: So last week we talked about identity rupture, right?
28:13
SPEAKER_03: And so let's connect this to identity.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: So this when new layers get triggered and they feel worse while they're feeling better, what does this have to do with who they were versus who they're becoming?
28:26
SPEAKER_03: Right.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: How do you see this intersect with the identity part?
28:31
SPEAKER_02: I get excited.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: I know that sounds so stupid now, but I get really excited when I have a new thing come up because I'm like, wow, this is yes.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: Because it's like for me, I feel like this is a gift and a symbol that I am able to go deeper.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: I have more capacity.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: I can handle it, right?
28:51
SPEAKER_02: So I think they go from being in a place of feeling so out of control.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: And I hear a lot of our women say that when they first come into our programs.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like I control anything, my thoughts, nothing, to feeling like they have some semblance then of control and authority over the way that they live their life, the decisions they make, the healing they can do.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: It goes from a feeling of being very powerless to being very powerful when they can start to understand how these parts are working.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: That first moment is probably my favorite moment I've ever experienced with any of the ladies.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: That first glimmer of like that the hint of excitement where they can start to see stumbling into a new awareness.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: That I'm starting to, oh, I am in control.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: I am powerful.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: I do get to choose.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: I do get to to create the life that I want instead of being tr being kind of stuck in the grief of what could have been or the divorce, what my life was supposed to be like, or all of that in your brain, those stories in your brain.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: And when you start to kind of come out of, I've been using the word mire a lot.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where it came from, but like when you're starting to come out of the mire and the out of the smog and the smoke and the and start seeing that glimmer of like, I think that's my favorite.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: It's my absolute favorite because it's so powerful and it's so exhilarating to our women to actually not be so hopeless anymore, you know?
30:25
SPEAKER_03: Tiffany has a Cheshire cat face right now, and I want to know what she's thinking.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I'm I know we're not supposed to pick up our phone while we're recording, but I have to because to any ladies out there that love Billy Strings, he's like this young bluegrass guy, and he's freaking amazing.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: And my favorite song from him is called Away from the Mire.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: So you gotta look it up.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: It is fucking incredible.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's what it made me think of.
30:47
SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
30:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: Lincoln show notes, Away from the Mire.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's so good.
30:54
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: We love some good music over here, right?
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Because music is so um music can penetrate absolutely you your brain.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, like you take a song and take a speech.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Like the mu you're gonna remember the song better, in my opinion, than the speech.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: So like on the person.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: Some some people yeah.
31:18
SPEAKER_03: Some people are better for music, some people are worse for music.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I think many people for sure, music can penetrate.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: So we we love a good thing.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: That's why I think breath work works so powerfully for me, right?
31:28
SPEAKER_02: Because breath work is about the music.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: So if we're doing breath work with somebody and there's a song on there that makes me get in my feelings, like I'm gonna lose it and I'm gonna have a huge release.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
31:40
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
31:41
SPEAKER_03: This next question is probably one of my favorite questions to ask, to answer, to discuss, you name it, right?
31:47
SPEAKER_03: Because it's its own episode in its own right in one question.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: So let's let's see how we go with it.
31:54
SPEAKER_03: Why doesn't the body mind just heal everything at once?
31:59
SPEAKER_03: Why can't we just why can't we just take all the remedies?
32:04
SPEAKER_03: Why can't we just do all the EMDR sessions, all the IFS sessions?
32:08
SPEAKER_03: Why can't we just like just spend a year and just bang it all out just all at once?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: That would be way too much.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, that would be system overload.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Even imagine.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: No.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: Like you're but it's like full body shutdown.
32:23
SPEAKER_03: But people think that's what they want.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: They want to just get it over with.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: They just want it to be over with.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's not realistic.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: It's not realistic.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, you you think about all the things that can happen in a day that can trigger you, and it might not come up for five years from now, and something might happen that makes you have another trigger, another part, another insight, right?
32:45
SPEAKER_02: Like you just can't plan for all of the things that you're gonna do while you go through life experiencing this type of thing.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: Our kids trigger us, you know what I mean?
32:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, you you just have no idea how many people will trigger you in the course of that, and there's no way to realistically prepare for any of that.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I want to paint a picture.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm gonna use joy as an example.
33:04
SPEAKER_03: Joy, I'm gonna pick on you today.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: You've been wrestling 12 years ago, I couldn't have handled it, but I'm here for it today.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's discuss.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: Let's say I took five years ago you.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: Just let's go really slow here.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: Five years ago, you, and I think what I'm about to unpack is hard for our women and our listeners to understand because they're not where they want to be.
33:28
SPEAKER_03: And it's hard for them to believe that they can get to where they want to be, right?
33:32
SPEAKER_03: So it's hard to imagine.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: So you're gonna have to paint a really good picture for them, Joy.
33:36
SPEAKER_03: Let's say we took five years ago you're and just plopped her out of that life in the way her husband related to her at the time, her children, her home, her friends, her church, her cousin, all the things, right?
33:51
SPEAKER_03: Plopped you out of that life and plopped you smack into this life.
34:00
SPEAKER_03: How disorienting would it be?
34:04
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, how many people wouldn't be here?
34:09
SPEAKER_03: How many people wouldn't be here?
34:11
SPEAKER_03: How many people would be responding to you so differently you wouldn't know what to do with how they were talking to you or acting, right?
34:18
SPEAKER_03: How lost would you feel?
34:20
SPEAKER_03: How overwhelmed would it be right?
34:22
SPEAKER_03: How disorienting would it be?
34:24
SPEAKER_01: One of the I I am probably 90% of the people in my life currently, day to day, were in my life then.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: So I will say that it's it's been a beautiful journey to go slow because I do believe in my heart and soul I'm a completely different person.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: For example, let me break it down a little bit.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Five years ago, there was um a couple weeks where I took 14 meals to people.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: All I did was cook and clean and bake and deliver.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: And because I needed to be valued and I needed to be seen.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't do I hadn't done the work for myself to be said seated in myself.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: And so I needed to be thought of as this good Christian serving woman.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: So I abandoned myself all the time.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: I was tired, I was cranky, I was judgmental AF.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I valued my my people pleaser ruled my life, right?
35:33
SPEAKER_01: And so um I was quiet.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: If my husband said something to me, I would just take it.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: My friends, my family, I was still seeking the approval of my sister, my parents.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to be I I felt comfortable small because that's where people wanted me.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
35:56
SPEAKER_01: So now I'm on the I've done so much work the last over the last few years.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Now is I still get I still take a few steps back, but instead of crying and wallowing and and really feeling pity in my relationship with my mom, it hurts and I will have emotions about it, but now I have tools to be able to handle it and I can still stay in safe self, but also recognize that it really I'm getting emotional just thinking about it.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: It really hurts to not have a mom who celebrates me or my children, and that's okay because I'm I'm those those feelings are in me and it's okay to feel them, but it's also okay to not wallow anymore because I'm I'm not gonna change her.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Um with with my husband, I have maybe gone a little bit too far where I, you know, like we have such beautiful open communication now with my friends.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Like even this morning, I I ask I'm self-aware enough to know that if something hits me wrong, I can ask, okay, why is this hitting me?
37:19
SPEAKER_01: What part is activated?
37:21
SPEAKER_01: How am I and I can come to the table and understand that they have a part activated as well.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: So what is happening?
37:28
SPEAKER_01: How can we bridge?
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Because we're both committed.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: We can we're both committed to have to be in life together.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: So like, let's figure out what's happening instead of blowing up my teenage years, my young adult years, my young married years, I was known as Hiroshima because I would like I would blow up.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: So being able to regulate my nervous system, ground myself in truth.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: But if you were to pick me up five years ago and place me now, all of my relationships would blow up because I didn't do the work and see the matrix, as you will, outside of myself, and being able to recognize what part is activated and and I'm, you know, I'm I'm still fairly new.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna take a little bit more time in IFS to really integrate all of my parts, but seeing that those parts are what is actually activated and owning them, but understanding that that's actually not necessarily the reality of the situation or the awareness.
38:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:40
SPEAKER_03: So two things about that, and then I'd love to hear Tiffany's reflection.
38:43
SPEAKER_03: But A, we are sensory creatures, right?
38:46
SPEAKER_03: We have our five senses.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: Some of us have six senses, right?
38:49
SPEAKER_03: But like sight, smell, touch, all the things.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: So when we're having quote unquote healing crises or we're feeling things, right?
38:56
SPEAKER_03: It's like there's an amount of capacity the body has to process all the sensory content, right?
39:02
SPEAKER_03: How it feels to process content.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: A.
39:04
SPEAKER_03: Can you imagine if we took up every like every healing moment where you felt and processed feelings and piled them all into one condensed uh no, I can't no, it'd be so destabilizing and so overwhelming.
39:17
SPEAKER_03: A B, and I'm someone who likes to put her foot on the gas, right?
39:20
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, let's do this efficiently, let's get this shit done.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: But B, I would liken it to someone who wakes up with amnesia, right?
39:28
SPEAKER_03: You will not be the same person with the same beliefs and the same life and the same outcomes.
39:34
SPEAKER_03: You will be like such a different version.
39:38
SPEAKER_03: It will feel so different to be in your body, so different to be in your life, so different to be in your relationships.
39:43
SPEAKER_03: It would feel like waking up with amnesia and not understanding who you were or how you got here.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: That's how different.
39:50
SPEAKER_01: I can see that.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: I like capacity is the perfect word.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't have capacity back then to handle all of it at once.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: Like I was dealing with one zone, one lane of healing, and I was doing my best as a mom.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: And like in this meat suit, right?
40:11
SPEAKER_01: You say that all the time.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I was doing my best, but I only had capacity for that lane of healing, and I couldn't see outside of that.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Does that make did I say that better?
40:24
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
40:25
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: Tiffany, what are your reflections either on what Joy shared or like what it would be like to quantum leap like a five-year healing journey?
40:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: If the why would the brain just do it all at once?
40:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: No, I had a completely different life five years ago.
40:41
SPEAKER_02: I was living in a different city.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a different job.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: I was, you know, six months into the relationship that I'm in now.
40:48
SPEAKER_02: Everything was very, very different.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: And so I I would say too, like when you describe it as amnesia, that's what it would feel like.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: Because if you would drop me into this life now, I'd be like, where the fuck am I?
40:58
SPEAKER_02: And who are all these people?
40:59
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, like my life is just so different.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, holy shit, like I'm doing IFS and I'm working, and who's the who are these people?
41:08
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
41:08
SPEAKER_02: And oh, we're doing a podcast.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, like my life doesn't even look like that.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: And I'll tell you, I wouldn't have had capacity to do any of this back then.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: I would never have had the capacity to show up as a mom, as a partner, a friend, um, to have the balls to like leave corporate and actually do something that I wanted to do.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: If I would have been given this life overnight, I would have fucked it up with every fiber of my being because I would not have had the tools to know how to handle any of this.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: Everything would have felt threatening to me.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: Everything would have felt overwhelming and threatening.
41:40
SPEAKER_02: I look at the capacity that I had before versus the capacity to handle what I'm handling now.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: And it's just like I'm not the same person in the best way possible.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: That's a good, that's a good way.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for articulating that so well.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: You should have gone first.
41:58
SPEAKER_03: Final question.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: Final question.
42:01
SPEAKER_03: If someone stays through this phase, the I feel worse phase, what starts to change?
42:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, uh okay.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: So I think that if you really dig in when you feel when you're feeling like you're taking a step back and you really dig in, it's almost like a fast fast forward.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Because when you get through it, you're not where you were before you took the two steps backwards.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: You're actually five steps forwards from where you were.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: So it's like a the Mario, like a drawing back to shoot forward.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: And it shoots you forward.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: So yes, I do think that that is very, very, very common and that's such a powerful place to be when you're taking two steps back.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: We feel like you're taking two steps back because it's just that level of awareness that's hit and then it speeds you cross.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: I would just encourage people to stay through the uncomfortable.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: And I tell people all the time the only way out is through.
42:55
SPEAKER_02: And if you're not willing to go through it, you're gonna be the one that says, I've been a therapist for 20 years and nothing's shifting and nothing's changing, and I've tried everything and I've tried every tool.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be you because you're not willing to go through and do the hard work and handle the uncomfortable and the messy parts.
43:13
SPEAKER_02: So I would just tell them to just stay.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Stay when you want to go, especially my avoidant ladies out there.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: I see you.
43:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm avoidant AF, used to be.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: So and sometimes I can still be that way, but that's okay.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: But now I know when I need to stay rather than run.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
43:30
unknown: Yeah.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
43:31
SPEAKER_02: There's beauty in sitting still, right?
43:33
SPEAKER_02: Like I want to get that quote from the Bible, the be still.
43:36
SPEAKER_02: I want to get that tattooed on me because that was my whole thing of my healing.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Just be still.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes, be still, and just it will pass.
43:43
SPEAKER_03: I feel like you're the queen of teaching us that lately.
43:46
SPEAKER_03: Just be still.
43:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:48
SPEAKER_03: It's all in us, right?
43:50
SPEAKER_03: It's all in us.
43:52
unknown: Yeah.
43:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:53
SPEAKER_03: But we can't perceive it until we move move through certain things.
43:57
SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: All right, darlings.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: If you are in Cocoon, I want you to just sort of check out have you attended Cocoon Connect lately?
44:08
SPEAKER_03: Have you joined Cocoon VIP?
44:10
SPEAKER_03: If you are a Cocoon VIPer, have you attended a live workshop?
44:16
SPEAKER_03: So if you're already in Cocoon, have you participated in a magic drop lately?
44:20
SPEAKER_03: Right?
44:20
SPEAKER_03: Like, we are sending out the coolest swag.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: We actually got into a bickerment this week about how expensive the swag is that we're sending out on the team.
44:31
SPEAKER_03: Because I like sending expensive shit.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, this happens a lot where I'm like, let's just send more expensive shit.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: Anyways, so if you're already in cocoon, are you participating in all the things?
44:45
SPEAKER_03: And if you're not in the cocoon, why the hell not?
44:49
SPEAKER_00: It's free, guys.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: It's free.
44:51
SPEAKER_03: Like totally free, right?
44:53
SPEAKER_03: Link in show notes to join the cocoon where you get to be with us and the ladies who are going through the things using the tools.
45:00
SPEAKER_03: You have all these things to participate once you get in there.
45:02
SPEAKER_03: Don't worry, you're gonna get a message from Tiffany that says, like, here's your next step, here's your next step, here's your next step.
45:07
SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for being here.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: We love you so much.
45:11
SPEAKER_03: We will see you in Cocoon.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: Peace.com.