Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Understanding and Transforming Food Systems: Insights from Nick Rose

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Understanding and Transforming Food Systems: Insights from Nick Rose · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Neck Rose. Welcome to the podcast. Great to be with you.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Once the bloody technology allowed me to log into my
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: own account.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: But anyway, we are here.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I mean we are going to talk about all things food,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: and you are heavily involved in food systems, so I
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: thought an interesting point to start would be just tell
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: you our listeners about your PhD, what you studied in
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: and in what you do now, and just give us
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: the five foot overview of the neck Rose train.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Great. Thanks, thanks very much. And yeah, my journey, my
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: journey into food is a little bit different, I guess
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: to a lot of others. I think a lot of
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: people come into working in food systems having worked in
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: hospital working training in dietetics or public health nutrition. But
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: those kinds of backgrounds and entry points. For me, it
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: was a little bit different. My first career actually was
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: in law. I was a corporate lawyer briefly, and then
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: a big turning point came in making the decision to
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: go and live in Guatemala and Central America. I had
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: been living in the UK for many years. After jettisoning
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: my corporate law degree, my career went and lived in
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: the UK for many years the nineteen nineties and then
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: made the decision to go and live in Guatemala at
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: the beginning of the year two thousand and that was
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: motivated not by food but by human rights. And I
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: guess that's kind of like my entry point into this
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: is really from a principal position that access to good
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: food for all people at all times is really and
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: should be seen as a basic human rights, something that
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: all of us should be entitled to simply by virtual
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: of the fact that you know, we're humans and we're
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: alive on a planet that is full of abundance and nourishment.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So why Guatemala.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: The time in Guatemala. The time in Guatemala was very formative. Paul, Yeah,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: my partner at the time and I had in London.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: We'd been meeting with the coordinator of a Spanish NGO
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: called Las regard as their pass in the Nacionales or
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Peace Brigades International. They were set up in the mid
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighties as wanting to put the idea of human
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: rights into practice in a very physical and material way,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: that is to say, mobilizing volunteers you know, from Europe,
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: from Britain, North America, you know, Australia, the global North
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: essentially to go and live and work in countries in
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: the global South that we're in situations of conflict, of
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: internal armed conflict or civil war, and the theory the
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: idea that by going and living and working in those
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: situations you could be making a very significant difference by
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: somebody who was say indigenous rights activists or women's rights group,
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: somebody like that, who, because of the work they were
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: doing in the context of the country at that time,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: put them in tremendous danger. And often those people would
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: be experiencing harassment, threats, you know, disappearance, all kinds of
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: you know, risks and dangers you know that they were
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: exposing themselves to. And the idea of Peace Brigades is
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: that someone like myself as an Australian would go and
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: live and work alongside that person and I would be
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: a witness an observer, and my physical presence would be
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: at a terrant to the bad guys from actually following
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: through on their threats. Interesting, So that's what they did. Yeah, Yeah,
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: it's really very interesting organization and a very as I say,
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: very direct and tangible way of putting the idea of
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: human rights into reality on the ground. So we went
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: to Guatemala to learn Spanish and then wanted to go
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: to Columbia because there was a project that peaceologates had
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: at Columbia, which at that time was still in civil war.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: But turned out that in Guatemala there was a need
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: for that work as well. I knew very little about
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: the country before going there. Got a massive life education,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: historical political education going there because the language school I
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: went to didn't want to teach students just simply about
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: the Spanish language, but also about the reality of the
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: country and the history of the country. And you know
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: why there was features such as you know, in trench
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: poverty and increased you know, migration upwards to Mexico and
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: in the United States, and all these you know, these
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: big things. Why were they? Why were they taking place?
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: So I didn't just get an education in Spanish language,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: I got an education in the whole history of Central
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: America and Guatemala in particular. And at that time, in
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: the year two thousand, Guatemala had recently exited its thirty
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: six years of internal conflict, and the first part of
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: the piece accords that were being implemented were exhumations of
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: all the mass graves. Because the Guatemalan military in the
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: years nineteen seventy eight to eighty two eighty three actually
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: implemented a brutal counterinsurgency strategy called scorch Earth tedda.
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  Speaker 4: Adrasada I remember, which led to the I spent a
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: better time in Guatemala, I think, Yeah, there was nineties,
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  Speaker 4: and I remember reading about the history of that was
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: quite horandous.
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  Speaker 3: Right, terrible, absolutely appalling, And so all these mass graves
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: were around the country, and so the first part of
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: the piece of cords was to exhume those mass graves
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: in the first instance, so that survivers could actually you know,
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: move forward with their greeting process and move to some
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: sense of closure because they'd be able to provide their
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: loved ones with a dignified burial. But you know, for
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: the ex military, the last thing they wanted was those
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: bones being dug up, because they were all evidence of
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: their crimes against humanity and genocide, as it was later
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: ruled to be. So yeah, so we actually went to Columbia.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: We ended up staying Guatemala and doing you know that
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: work for a year, and then we ended up working
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: with human rights organizations in Guatemala, Chiapas and Southern Mexico
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: and Hondurists and doing several years of human rights capacity
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  Speaker 3: building workshops, and that again was a privilege for me
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: to meet some very brave leaders of these grassroots, indigenous
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and peasant organizations. And I went back to study then
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: in Guatemala, did a master's in International Community Development and
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: then came back to Australia with my young family at
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: the end of two thousand and six. And that's why
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I decided to do the PhD on food sovereignty as
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: a global small farmer indigenous people's movement that was about
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: trying to reorient the global agricultural and food system from
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: one that was really about maximizing corporate profits to one
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: that was about you know, flourishing people and ecosystems. And
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: that's been that's been my journey ever since, I guess,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: so those very formative years in Guatemala. The book, actually
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: it was a book that really was central in this
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: story for me, was called Bitter Fruit, The Untold Story
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: of the CIA Coup in Guatemala, which was looking at
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: the history back in the early nineteen fifties when Guatemala
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: had its brief democratic spring as it was called, and
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: the government at that time, Guatemala was actually trying to
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: achieve a land reform process to modernize the country in
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: the way that Japan and Korea had done by breaking
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: up big feudal landholdings and redistributing that land to the
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: poor indigenous majority to give them an opportunity at a
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: decent life and to be food secure. But in doing
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: that in Guatemala, it came smack into the power of
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: the United Corporation, the Banana Company. That's why they speak
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: about banana republics, because this corporation in Honduras and Guatemala
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: in the first decades of the twentieth century, had tremendous
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: control over the economy and the politics of those countries.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: So unfortunately for the people of Guatemala, you know, the
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: idea that it could modernize and embark on a land
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  Speaker 3: reform program was deemed unacceptable to the interests of the corporation.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: They had links with the Eisenhower White House. They you know,
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: they said, you know, there's a terrible threat to the
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: national security of the United States going on. The Communists
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  Speaker 3: have taken power in Guatemala. If we don't do anything,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: you know, the Soviet Union will be sticking missiles down
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: there and threatening our national security. Therefore, you know, it's
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: a regime change operation. They carried out a Kude tar
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty four, and a few years later, you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: the country plunged into thirty six years of war, which
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: you know, the trauma is continuing and will continue for decades.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: You know, there's no functioning legal system. You know, the
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: rates of violence against women are off the charts. You know,
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  Speaker 3: waves of migrants, you know, pouring northwards to Mexico and
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: the United States. You know, gangs are controlling large parts
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: of the city. So it's it was, Yeah, I guess
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  Speaker 3: for me, it made me so angry that a country
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  Speaker 3: was simply trying to have a chance at its own
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: sovereignty and independence and actually rule itself for the benefit
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: of its people. And it was like a candle that
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: was snuffed out at that moment because you know, the
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: powers that be and in the global Empire decided it
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: was you know, impermissible that they could be allowed to
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: do that. And yeah, the violence and the suffering that
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: was unleashed as a result is heartbreaking, And I guess, yeah,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: for me, that's what I've kind of brought into my
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: work around food and agricultural systems that you know, we
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: have every opportunity in this world for everyone to you know,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: to live well and to eat well, but where you know,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: we're not being able to fulfill that potential because the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: you know, the systems and the major decisions are really
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: being taken, you know, to benefit, in the case of
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: the food system, a small number of very powerful corporate
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: interests who've got no real concern about our health and
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: well being. I mean, if we turn then to Australia
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, and I know you've talked about this,
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: the food that we're being fed, the food that's being
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: promoted and discounted and marketed to our children, is you know,
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: is making it's slowly you know, killing us really and
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  Speaker 3: diminishing our quality of life. And it's all simply to
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: fill the coffers of these powerful corporations.
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  Speaker 2: I read a start neck the other week, and I
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: need to dig into it just to to find out
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the validity of it. But it was it was from
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: doctor Chris van Housen. I think that one of the
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: guys in there who writes all about ultra processed food.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: He said that seventy five percent of calories consumed in
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: the world are created by six corporations. Like I mean,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: anybody who hears that you just could not help but
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: to be alone that that six companies are actually responsible
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: for the creation of seventy five percent of calories that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: We all eat.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: And you know these companies that they're they're the major
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: thing is to drive and returns to shareholders, right, so
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: they are always going to put profit above everything else,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and they're just but interesting. It's very interesting to hear
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: the whole history around the Banana Republic. I wasn't familiar
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: that was the term, that was where the term actually
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: came from.
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  Speaker 1: And not surprising that the corporation.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Would there use the idea of communism to get the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: United States and the CIA on board. And look at
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: anybody who's traveled in Central South America just knows and
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: has read about the history knows that the CIA have
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: done all sorts of horrendous things throughout that region. And
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: and you know, now you have a look at the
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: ramifications and it's just it's it's it's crazy. But anyway,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: that's a whole other podcast actually, just which just reminds
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: me anybody who's interested in this subject. Should actually read
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: a book I don't know if you've ever heard of it,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Confessions of an Economic hit Man.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: And it is a ridiculous eye opener, isn't it About
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  Speaker 2: what goes.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: On behind the scenes.
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  Speaker 2: With these big are well with with interests, international interests,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: and how basically money is used to control other nations.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And anyway, I highly recommend that people go and read
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: that book.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic book. John John Perkins. I mean
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: it's a real sort of whistleblowers tal. He was inside
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: the beility of the base and it's it's from his
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: personal experience. Actually, he described himself as an economic hit
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: man and if if the financial and economic leaders didn't
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: get the trick done, then they would call the jackals,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: as he put it, the jackals would come in after
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: the economic hitman tried to do the job. But we
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: can get it done, and the jackals, of course being
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: the CIA and the you know, the local you know,
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: paramilitary outlets.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And it's quite interesting now, and look we will get
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: back onto the topic.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: But it does bring up that interesting point.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole I think the Chinese Belt Road
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Initiative is doing similar things from a point of view
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: of lending big amounts of money to underdeveloped nations who
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: will probably end up defaulting on that, or they'll own
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: their ports and all of this sort of thing. It's
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a kind of similar ish playbook that the Americans were
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: doing thirty forty years ago.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: But anyway, we digress. Let's get back and talk about food.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: So you came to Australia and study during night, talk
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: to our listeners about just give them a sense of
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: how the food system actually works, because I've become increasingly
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: concerned about a small handful of retailers here in Australia
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: selling most of our foods, and you know, two of them,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Woolworths and Cole's. So for our overseas listeners, excuse, but
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: there's two major supermarkets here that sell most of the food,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: and then there's a few other chains that are smaller
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: than that, and a lot of smaller grocery stores and
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: butchers and bakers are actually being crowded out. So just
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: talk about what are some of the issues, the systemic
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: issues with that sort of a system, and also use
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: that to give our listeners a bit of an overview
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of the overall food network. Because I don't think a
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: lot of people think about where the food comes from,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: what the politics is, all of this sort of stuff.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: No, absolutely right, So I think, yeah, the subject that
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you raise in that introduction is a good place to start,
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: because I don't think we can have a serious conversation
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: about the Australian food and agricultural system if we don't
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: talk about the supermarkets. They are far and away the
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: most powerful actors in the system, and in Australia we
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: say that we have a duopoly. So that's you know,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: two corporations you've mentioned them, Coles and Woolworths that between
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: them hold somewhere around sixty seven to seventy percent of
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: the total grocery market in this country. That's up from
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: around thirty five to forty fifty years ago. So they
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: are the dominant actors and they at the prices. They
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: set the prices for our farmers, and they also of
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: course set the prices for the consumers. And with the farmers,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I've spoken to vegetable producers in different places around Melbourne
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: over the last ten years fifteen years I've been doing
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: this work, and some of them say that they are
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: getting the same prices that they got back in the
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighties, like the price they're getting for their product
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: has not moved yet. The costs of doing business, you know,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: the wages, the energy, the inputs, the water, the land,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, has obviously gone up dramatically. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: CSIRO and was this was at the end of the
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: nineteen nineties. I don't know that they've updated these figures,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: but they were looking at the overall of Australian agriculture
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: at the end of the nineteen nineties and the figure
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: that always just has always stayed with me is that
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Australian farmers at the end of the nineteen nineties needed
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: to produce four times the volume to earn in real terms,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: just over half of what they had done fifty years
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: earlier in the nineteen fifties. You are kid, Yeah, So
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: just think about that in terms of like an insane
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: treadmill of production where you're just running faster and faster
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: in terms of production and going backwards, like you're losing money.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: So how that is you know, fair, How it's sustainable,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: how it's ethical, how it's the foundation of a decent
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: agricultural and food system in this country is you know,
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: just beggars belief. But that's and yet and yet farmers
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: you know, are still are still operating under those kinds
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: of terms. So that's that's I think a good place,
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: a good place to start. And then if we look
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: at consumers, you know, we've we've all heard talk in
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: this country and I think it's true around the world
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: as well about the cost of living crisis, the inflation
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: that we've experienced since COVID. You know, in Australia, we've
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: seen our housing costs go up dramatically if we're paying
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: the mortgage or renting with all these interest rate rises
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: as well as the inflation. So that's all been happening,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: and the supermarkets have been making record profits during during
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: these years. So a lot of people are very unhappy
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: about that, and they're saying, well, why should we all
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: of us as you know, as way journers and mortgage
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: players and renters be doing it so damn tough. Well,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: you know, over here these two are just breaking in,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: you know, billion dollar profits year after year after year.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: It's not it's not right. So that's actually it's a
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: number of inquiries that have taken place and demand for
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: some serious action to be taken. I don't think it's
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: gone anywhere near far enough. I think we've got a
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: long way to go to address the massive power and
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: balance that exists in the Australian food system. And the
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: other thing, and you've mentioned, we've touched on this briefly
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: already in terms of the food that you actually now
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: can buy in a supermarket. You know, the Georgia Institute
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: of Public Health in Sydney as documented that well over
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: half of it is now ultra processed or discretionary. So
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: people think in a suburb or a neighborhood, okay, we've
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: got healthy food because we've got a supermarket down the road.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: But if you actually go into the supermarket and see
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: what the food is that's available, you know, far and
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: away the majority of it is not healthy and all that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: So much of that ultra process and unhealthy food is
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: what's discounted and marketed. It's always at the end of
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: the checkout aisle. You know, the cartons of Coca Cola,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: it's always buy one, get the second one for forty
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: percent off, for half price. You know, it's it's there's
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: just no controls on that. You know, they've got they've
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: got an open, open season to market and promote and
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: discount these products as wherever they want to children without restraint.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: And this is why we're seeing, you know, the massive
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: public health crisis that we are in this country. So
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: all these things come together in the in the supermarkets,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: and as you also said, in terms of the you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: the urban environment and the spatial environment, they are crowding
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: out high street businesses. You know, there's something called land
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: banking where if a new suburbs is going to be built,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: they kind of go in there, they snap up the
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: prime sites, they keep competitors out, and they make it
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: very difficult for locally owned businesses to operate. And that's
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: a real problem in terms of, you know, a workably
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: competitive market into it's a proper choice for consumers, in
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: terms of fair market alternatives for producers, and in terms
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: of affordable access to good food. And we demonstrated this
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: ourselves in the twenty twenty five federal election by going
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: to a local green grocer. A locally owned green grocer
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: in Sunshine in Melbourne's West spent one hundred dollars mainly
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: on fresh produce, took that same shopping list with those
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: same weights of produce that we'd spent at Gasco's. The
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: local Green Grosser went to the local Woolworths in Sunshine
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: had to spend one hundred and twenty five dollars to
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: get the same shopping list full, and the differential on
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: some items was stark. Bananas were two and a half
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: times more expensive at Walworths, Roma tomatoes were four times
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: more expensive, Lemon grass was ten times more expensive, garlic
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: was three times more expensive. Like it was just it was.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: It was eyewateringly stark the differences between the price. So
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: we're actually as part of our commitment as a healthy
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: in Sstainable Food Systems organization, a health promotion charity with
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: our partners, we've actually got a bit of funding to
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: go and replicate this research with groups of students from
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Monash University and r MIT in different parts around the
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: northern and western suburbs of Melbourne as well as further
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: out in Victoria's West over the next few months and
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: we will be doing these price comparisons and having a
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: list of fruit and bed and doing the compar comparisons
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: between local Green Grosses and the supermarkets because our assumption
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: is that in many cases, particularly in low income neighborhoods.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: It's the local businesses that will be cheaper. But people
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: don't think of it like that when they think about
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: food and where you get your food, Oh, you just
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: go to the supermarket, Like that's just the default. We're
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: wanting to challenge that assumption and also make the point
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: that these locally run businesses are essential to the fabric
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: of a diverse and connected and healthy neighborhood and suburb.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: And we know, if anything, we need incentives and support
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: to bring more green grossers, more cultural grosses, more of
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: these locally owned businesses back into our neighborhoods. We've got
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: to start saying, look, enough of the supermarkets. They've had
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: it really good for fifty years. It's time to kind
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: of say, no, we don't need any more supermarkets. We
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: actually need more locally owned businesses and green grossers because
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: they are the ones that are not accountable to massive
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: institutional shareholders and their profit expectations like hedge funds and
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: so on. They actually will create local jobs for local people.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: They'll support local farmers where they can, and they'll give
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: a fair price to their customers, and particularly in culturally
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: diverse areas, they will provide a much better range of
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: the types of veggs and fruit.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Not to Mancha Nick being a shipload fresher than the
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: stuff that you get in the supermarkets as well, right,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Just want to add it and not and not repped
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: in plus.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I want to add something to this
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: to just from some some.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Personal observation.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: So I did a bunch of work and it was
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand, but I think they've got a very
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: similar system here. And I was working with a big
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: food producer I won't name them. I was working with
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: their leadership team and they had a problem in that
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: they created a lot of baked goods and one of
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the biggest supermarket came to them and said, we want
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: you to produce for us a dollar white loaf that
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: will be a supermarket own brand, right, And that dollar
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: white loaf that that they.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Wanted to produce.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: To produce it was going to cost them more to
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: make it. But they said to them, if you will
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: produce that that white loaf for us, that we will
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: brand and does the supermarket one, and we will then
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: give you preferred shelf space for your major products. And
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: if you don't, we will go to your competition and
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: we'll do the deal with the competition. So the leadership
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: team we're wrangling about how much money they were going
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: to lose on giving a supermarket their brand that they
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: could brand as their own and to then be able
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to have their products put in the primary position, you know,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: at the end of the aisles and these things that
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: eye level all of this sort of stuff. So all
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: the stuff that you're buying in the supermarkets that is,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't matter what it's this country or another country,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: or Worlworth's home brand or Cools home brand, they're not
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: making it.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: They're going in and they're screwing.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: The thumbscrews of the people who are making it and
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: to do deals with them so that they can get
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: more profits on their home brand stuff.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Right, This is the sort of subter.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Fee use that goes on with these supermarkets. And I
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: think the other point next with the farmers who are.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Being increasingly screwed.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: If they don't do the deal with calls and supermarkets,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: what are they going to sell their product to Because
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: trying to get it to the local green grocer or whatever,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: or particularly if you're a diry farmer, trying to get
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: those those other channels that you can sell at is crazy.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: And I know farmers who have just shut up shop
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: because they've gone this has just become far too difficult
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: and to your point, exactly exactly completely unsustainable, right.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: Exactly it is, Yeah, it is. It's a it's a
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: food system that is driven by the short term profit
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: interests of these big corporations, and the consequences for us
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: and for our future and future generations are just not
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: they're not factoring into their thinking. And I guess to
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: just kind of go back to you to your original
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: question about, you know, the food system and the reason
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: to kind of like make these connections and see the
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: bigger picture. You know, part of the part of the
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: crisis in the Australian food system is with the demographic
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: change in farmers and the fact that so many farmers,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I think the average age of farmers in Australia now
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: is over sixty, many of them are over seventy, and
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: young people are not going into agriculture for the reasons
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: that we've been discussing, because it's seen as a mug's game.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: You know, it's just really hard work with little reward,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: and they're just not feeling supported and that's a problem,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: that is a huge problem, and it's not just this country,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: and there's been similar there's a protest in the UK
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: at the moment that it's the same thing. It's like,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: where's your food if you don't have farmers. That's the point,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: right The soil, the soil and the water is the
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: foundation of the food system. But we need labor, we
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: need farmers to grow the food and if we don't
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: have them and they're being so screwed over by the
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: current system, it's a disaster for us that is going
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: to come around and bite us really really quickly. So
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: I think the numbers of farmers under the age of
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: thirty five in Australia is now down to about twelve
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: or thirteen percent. It was about thirty percent twenty years ago.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: So there's a massive generational issue in how do we
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: incentivize and encourage and enable and support the next generation
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: of farmers and young people into agriculture, which is and
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: we can, you know, if we have time, we can
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: touch on this in your local context in Mornington, because
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: they're one of the few local councils in Australia that
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: are really trying to do this well and tackle this
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: issue through their food Economy and Agrocology strategy and their
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Producer Food Economy task Force that's working with the local
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: government that's actually looking at this question amongst others, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: one of the other questions that they're looking at is
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: the question of sustainability and caring for the land and
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: supporting farmers to make the transition away from highly destructive,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: chemical intensive forms of land management and agriculture that have
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: devastated this country, you know, in so many places, and
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: so much so that Australia, after you know, invasion and
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: colonization in seventeen eighty eight, has the highest rate of
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: biodiversity loss and species extinction on the planet and the
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: principal reason for that is agriculture and the massive the
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: massive landing has changed that it's brought about. So, you know,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: that's another dimension of the food and agricultural system that
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: you know, most of us, because we're so urbanized, we're
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: one of the most urbanized countries in the world. We
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: just you know, most of us don't know a farmer. Now.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: We don't really spend much time going out you know,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: we don't go out there to the you know, to
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: the to the countryside or you know where wheat and
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: the sheep and the cattle are raised. You know, if
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: we go on holiday, we tend to go to the coast,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: or we get in a plane and go somewhere else.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: We don't have a lot of connection with our own country,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: so these issues we don't think about them. You know
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: that we our interaction with the food system is through
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: what's on the shelf at the supermarket, and that's it.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: And we look at the price, and maybe we look
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: at the label, and maybe we think about organic, and
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: maybe we think about fair trade and some of these things.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: But you know, these bigger issues, these structural issues and problems,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: are just out of mind, out of sight. So in
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: my teaching in the Food Studies degree, I have an
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: assignment for my students called commodity chain analysis, which is
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: helping them to think critically back through the whole chain
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and the food system to actually understand where the food
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: comes from and what the conditions of production actually are
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: and what all the consequences of those relationships entail. So
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: we look at coffee, for example, and the conditions of
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: the coffee producers in countries like Guatemala and Honduras, and
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: and how that you know that product gets from Honduras.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: Let's say to you know, to a cafe in Brunswick
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: or or North Melbourne, and and who you know, who's
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: benefiting from that six dollars you're paying for your laste
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: or your flat white and all the you know, the complexities.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: It's a it's a it's it's it's a it's a
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: big and important topic. But I think it's something that
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: we need to be discussing more because these issues affect
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: all of us, Like all of us eat, you know,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: all of us are impacted by what's happening with our soils,
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: with our waterways, with the you know, with the with
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: the climate. We can't we can't pretend that this is
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: you know, somebody else's problem for someone else to And
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: if you.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Don't want to, if you don't want to be eating
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: lab grown food when you're when you're old, and don't
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: want your grandchildren to be mostly club grown food, we
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: need to do something about it now.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: So that's it. Well, that's it, and exactly let's pivot.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Let's pivot to talk about what we can do. So,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: so two topics here, what can the individual do and
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: all the listeners, what can they do just from a
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: purchasing perspective from.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Having your own own garden? Then what can communities do?
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: And then what what's the big stuff that you're doing
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: with obviously groups and trying to influence people. So so
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: pick any of those three. But I remember reading in
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: about lockdown. One of one of the benefits of lockdown.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I remember seeing in the UK and all these kind
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: of gardens popping up in the what do they call them,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: the allotments, right, and people going and doing a lot
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: more gardening and allotments, and I know, I think your
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: organization has been involved with a couple of those different projects.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So maybe maybe talk to that and then also talk
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: about what we can do as consumers.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Like are there there are some.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Products that you're better off doing, and I know things
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: like obviously farmers' markets, going to your local fruit and vegs,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: going to your local butcher those sorts of things. Maybe
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: we'll take that first, what an individual can do from
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: a purchasing perspective, and maybe growing your own Then how
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: can we put pressure on them, and what are local
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: government's doing, And then we'll maybe talk about the big
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: stuff that that's more like people like you influencing it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Sure, Okay, So at the individual level, let's just talk
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: about growing some of your own food, which, according to
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: research from the Australia Institute, more than fifty percent of
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Australians already participating in that activity in one way, shape
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: or form. And I think indeed it's a fair you know,
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: in this sport obsessination that Australia, probably the most popular
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: activity so called recreational activity is actually gardening, where a
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: nation of gardeners even more than we are a nation
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: of sports mad fanatics. So so many of us are
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: already doing this. And there's there's such power in that
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: simple act of even if it's as simple as kind
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: of like a pot of herbs on your balcony, if
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: you're in an apartment or townhouse too, if you get
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: a little bit more space, you know, having having some veggies,
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: you know, the skills you can learn, the satisfaction that
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: you can derive from, you know, that creative produce, that
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: that creative process is immense because it connects you with
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: the source of life. When when you're doing that, you're
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: actually tapping in to life itself, to the you know,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: to the cycle of life. The creative process.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: And next time we've got a glimpse.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I havn't just written a sort of chapter on this
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: area of my book. Spending time in nature is really
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: good for you mentally. Gardening has been shown to be
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: really good for your mental health and diversifies your microbiome.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Actually working the soil diversitiphise your microbiome as well. And
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: the food that you produce in your own garden is
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: going to be a shit little more nutritious than the
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: stuff that you buyd the supermarkets.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Right, one hundred per yep. All those points fall absolutely,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: and indeed the mental health one is really really important.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: And during COVID, my organization sustain did a survey. We
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: called it the Pandemic Gardening Survey. We had it open
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: for one month from mid June to mid July twenty twenty.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: We received over nine thousand responses, so that survey nine
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: and forty responses from all over the country, and what
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: people said again and again was just how important it
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: was at that time of heightened anxiety to be able
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: to participate in that very calming and reassuring activity of gardening,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: access to green space and growing some of their own food.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: And I'll just give you. We had over twenty five
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: thousand quotes with the survey. We wrote, had many open
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: field questions and it was a moment in time when
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: people were at home in lockdown, and this touch tapped
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: into a bit of a zeitgeist, I think, and people
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: really engaged with it. And so we had over twenty
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: thousand long form answers that we're still kind of slowly
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: working our way through. But his a woman age in
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: the twenty five to thirty four bracket, living in the
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: outer suburbs of Melbourne, and she said, watching things grow
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: so helping them into the world has been enormously comforting
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: in a year when where things feel like they've been
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: put on pause, the inexorable growth of our vegetables has
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: been a sweet and quiet lesson in motion, a sense
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: of things carrying on. And I think that, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: that was that was reflective of a sentiment of thousands
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: of respondents to this survey of the the the enormous
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: mental health benefits of access to gardening and food growing
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: at that time. But I think it's you know, it's
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: a it's a general, a general statement that holds very true.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: So the simple act of growing some of your own
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: food I think would be a really positive and empowering
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: thing for people to do. I'm sure many of your
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: listeners already do it, but if you if you haven't
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: tried it, it's it's not that hard. It's just a
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: couple of pots and some soil and some ceilings and
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: care and attention and and it's it becomes a militative practice.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's it became and it was, you know,
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: a daily ritual people who are answering with survey, So
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: that would be that would be I guess the first thing.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I was just added to that.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Actually, the in the island of Okinawa in Japan, and
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I identterviewed a professor Ken Mogi, and and you know
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: it's known as one of the centers for.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Longevity, and there's I think there's been.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: A bit few misrep representations about why Ken Mogi was
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: saying a lot of the older people there they have
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: an ikey guy of growing their own food. Right, that
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: is that that this ikey guy, that Japanese what gets
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: you up in the morning. And and it's when when
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: they have been surveyed, they say that that that gives
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: them the joy to be able to grow their own
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: food and to eat their own food.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: And eat it as a community.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: That's a hue huge reason why they are much longer lived.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: And we have actually started doing it more, Kylie. But
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I've actually started getting into it, and we're actually now
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: expanding out.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: Of the herbs and the strawberries and those sorts of things.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: And I'm about to get a greenhearst because we have
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: actually felt the benefits of it, and it's it's a
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: mindful activity, you know, it is one of those gay
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: So I echo everything that that Leally said in.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: The court.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I love the fact that you mentioned joy
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: and pleasure because that's really important as well. And I
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: think that's something that we've perhaps lost touch with in
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Australia in you know, in our culture where everything's so
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: much about you know, material things and consumption and you
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: know career progress and you know financial you know all
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: the all the metrics, both for ourselves as individuals, but
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: for our society it's so instrumentalized and so you know,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: reduced to you know, financial metrics that we've lost. I
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: think in some ways we've lost touch with the more
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: you know, spiritual foundational elements of life. That are really
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: what gives life meaning and purpose, and the joy of
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: gardening is a is a really important aspect of that.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Not just just briefly share with you another aspect of this,
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: another you know another quote and we're just you know
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: by co author Kelly Dinati and I just had this
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: chapter published in a book about this. The joy that
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: people derived in so many different ways from being able
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: to garden, not just not just growing the food, but
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: observing the interactions of other creatures in the garden. So
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: bees observing bees feeding in the garden was a particular
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: source of joy for some. And this person said, what
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: all the native bees going crazy over my pineapple sage
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: makes me happier and more content than you could believe.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: I think that's just really it seems such a small thing,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: but I think it's really there's so much beauty and
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: power in that where you can you know, by having
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: having that flowering plant, you're giving food to others, to
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: other creatures, You're you're nourishing them, that you're nourishing yourself
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: spiritually and mentally as well, simply by creating that that beauty,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: those aesthetics, and then being able to go out there
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: and see the bees, you know, do do what they do,
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: and just lose yourself in that. In that moment, it's really.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: And now moment where we can have a positive contribution
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: to the ecosystem of the earth and try to offset
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: something some of our obvious destruction just by by having
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to exist, you by not not intentionally, but just all
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: the things that we do, the things that we consume
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: are probably not negative for the ecosystem of the earth.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: So if you can just balance it that little bit
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: and get a bonus for your mental health, a bonus
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: for your physical health as well, and take some money
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: out of the freakin' supermarkets pockets, then there's got to
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: be a when we're not all around.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: Right one hundred percent one hundred percent pull Okay, So
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: from gardening then obviously, you know most of us are
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: going to get most of our food not from what
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: we grow ourselves, but from what we purchase. And I
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: think we've already talked about this. I mean, every purchasing
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: decision that you can make which doesn't involve the supermarket,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: to optly is a good a good decision, I think.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: And if you can support your local farmer, be it
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: at your local farmer's market or you know there are
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: direct there are direct ways of doing that in some
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: parts of the city. But even just going to a
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: locally owned business, a locally owned green grosser, of which
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: which you know there are still plenty around the city
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: if you do look for them, I think that's really
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: a really positive thing to do. Support your locally owned businesses,
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: their family run businesses. They're not being accountable to remote shareholders,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: they're not driven by profit maximization. They're there the reasons
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: of passion. You know, they're running that business because you
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: know it's been in their family or it's what they're
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: passionate about. And if we can get behind them and
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: support them, I think those are all really you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: good things that we can do on a daily and
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: weekly basis. All right, So those from individuals, then too
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: at the community level, you know, community gardens, if you
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: again to going back to growing food and participating in
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: those kinds of activities, if you do want to get
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: into it more seriously, you know, participating in the community
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: garden is a great thing to do. It's you know,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: one of the other crises that we're facing is I'm
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: sure you know is is loneliness and social isolation that
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: has been a real feature in the way of our economy,
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: particularly in the Anglo Saxon world, has has developed in
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: these decades of neoliberalism. It's you know, people have become
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: adomized and isolated and lonely. And that's another reason why
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: mental health and stress is such a you know, such
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: such big, you know, big problems in society. So you
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: know that they've said that, you know, the so called
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: third spaces that we used to have, you know, decades
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: ago in our towns and cities have disappeared and vanished,
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: and you know, we only have kind of you know, constructed,
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: commodified opportunities to gather together in collectivities at you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: commercial sport and and the like. So community gardens are
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: one of those third spaces where it's not it's not
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: about money, it's not about a commodified commercial experience, and
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: simply people joining together because they're you know, they're interested
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: in pursuing this activity together and there's an opportunity to
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: to learn and socialize in a relaxed, pleasing way. And
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: it's a great form of you know, light exercise. I
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: know that you've spoken about this, you know, the benefits
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: of physical activity and how important that is for you,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: you know, your mental health and your bodily health. So
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: so that's a really a really good thing to do.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: You know, if you've got children, if you've got families
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: and schools to you know, support them to to get
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: a garden happening at the school if they don't already
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: have one.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: You just took the world. You just took the words
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: out of my mouth.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Actually, I did some some work with a specialist school.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: It was a bunch of principals and they were for
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: specialist schools, so you know, these are the teachers that cheesee,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: they do the hard yaka. And because of the talk
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: that I did, one of the principals at one of
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: the schools and they then brought me back in to
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: show me everything, and they completely changed their canteen. They
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: stopped selling chips and crappy food and they said that
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the students that were young it was a primary school,
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: this is students are almost revolting.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: But they started they got the students involved.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: With growing a lot of the food that they then
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: sold into the talk shop, and so the students then
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: were eating their own food and a lot of these
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: these kids had had disabilities, whether it was physical or
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: intellectual disabilities.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: And he said the change.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: In the students after that first bit of resistance was
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: just amazing.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: So I fully endorsed that.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: You know, as parents, if you know somebody a parent
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: on the committee, just harassed them or get on the
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: committee and and just harass the well being and people
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: in the school to say, if you don't have a garden,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: let's get a garden, Let's get the kids involved in it,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Let's get them having an understanding of this.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And there's there's two fantastic initiatives that have taken
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: the next level in Victoria that if you if you
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: each of them happy to put you in touch with them.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: One is called farm Raiser and that's a special development
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: school in Bellfield in West Heidelberg and that they these
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: are and this was the initiative of three students graduating
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: from Melbourne University's granted urban horticulture a few years ago.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: And that is bloody awesome. The stuff that's going in
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: those three is good. So if you're a parent, go
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: and harassed your shoulders are politely suggest that they might
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: want to do something like this.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: So what then about local government.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: What sort of local government initiatives are going on that
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: can be helpful here.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question, and I just want to
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: say one of the reasons why I love working in
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: this space and doing this work is because there's so
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: many great things happening, Like it's such a creative, energizing space.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: There's so much positivity and good people doing amazing work
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: for the very best of reasons. And that's that's another reason,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: you know, to get involved in terms of local government.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: They have a really important role to play in this space,
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: not least because they they manage land and they can
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: make that land available for people to do activities such
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: as urban farms and community gardens and where ourselves benefit
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: from that. In the city of Durban, we've been running
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: an urban farm on what used to be called the
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: Melbourne Innovation Center at Alphington. This, interestingly, was one of
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Melbourne's most contaminated and polluted sites. It was an ex
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: landfill that was capped I think about thirty or forty
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: years ago, and now it's become a bit of an
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: urban agri food hub with a weekly farmers market with
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: two women growing oyster mushrooms and shipping containers with the
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: urban farm that we're running, yeah, and with a waste
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: business reground, a social enterprise that provides waste auditing services
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: to the hospitality sector and takes away coffee grounds and
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: donates them the community gardens. So it's a little cluster
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: of food food related activities and it's all land owned
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: by the City of Darrabin, so they make that space
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: available for all these social enterprises and organizations to do
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: this work and for us. Also up at Bundura Park Farm,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: which is one of Melbourne's original original farms poster colonization,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: we have had a license from Durbin Council half an
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: acre of land up there for the past two years
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: and we have used that to create a First Nations
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Food Fiber and Medicine garden on one paddock and on
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: the adjacent paddock a more traditional European style market garden.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: The First Nation's Food, Fiber and Market Garden has been
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: such a satisfying project. Through some of the philanthropic funding
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: we've had, we've been able to employ a yaw to
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: your what a woman, an artist, a musician who did
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: one of our rounds of paid internships. You know, she
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: loves doing that work, and she's now leading a group
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: of eight First Nations people in a ten week paid
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: internship that we're commencing next week, which will be helping
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: them to recover connection to country, recovery of cultural knowledge,
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: the plants that were grown here pre colonization, to visit
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: other First Nations run sites around the city, and to
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: build that sense of community and connection. And we've also
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: got a yarning circle and the fire pit you know
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: for smoking ceremonies up there at that site. So that's
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: all been made possible by the Yeah, it's really exciting
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: and fantastic, and it's been supported by the City of
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: Durbin in making that land available to us at a,
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: you know, a pretty favorable rate. So those are kinds
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: of things that local governments can do. They can also
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: bring community together and having the kinds of conversations you
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: and I have been having, creating spaces for communities to
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: have them with each other about these issues. So we've
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: been part of that process ourselves many times, going back
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: to twenty sixteen with Cardinia Shire Council and the creation
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: of the Cardinia Community Food Strategy that we helped facilitate
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: with I think it was about fifty small group talks,
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: kitchen table conversations, people sitting around a table having these
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: kinds of discussions that being documented, and all those you know,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: all those inputs going into writing up the council Community
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: Food Strategy to the City of Banuel in twenty twenty
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: two to twenty three, when we supported them to engage
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: with over six hundred local residents and create the City
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: of Anuel's first urban food strategy. To Mornington Peninsula Shy
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Council's Food Economy and agro Ecology Strategy, which has been
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: driven by a council by the Agribusiness Officer Sarah Saxton,
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: to work with local producers and help them make the
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: shift to sustainable and regenitive forms of food production on
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: the peninsula. So, you know, those are just a handful
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: of examples. We've been working with local governments ourselves for
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: the better part of ten years now and can see
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: the difference it makes when they actually understand these issues
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: and really work with and get behind community members to
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: put some you know, some cohesion and longer term vision
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: and strategies and goals around this work. So that's local now,
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: state government, and federal government.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Obviously presumably next sorry before before you get onto state
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: and federal presumably individuals like me will have more of
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: an impact going and talking to the local.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: Government, absolutely, and federal government, Yeah, because exactly, you're right, Yeah,
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: because because they're much more accessible. You know, it's much
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: you know, they're the closest level of government to people,
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: to communities that you know, anyone can go along to
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: council meetings, you can you can seek meetings with your
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: men and your counselors and uh and involve yourself in
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: the process. And I guess, you know, for me, coming
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: back to what I said at the start in terms
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: of my entry point into this whole area, it's it's
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: it's it's also about breeding life back into our democratic culture,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: because I feel that is also part of the crisis
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: that we're facing. We've become very cynical and jaded about
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: about politics, about about government, about how these decisions are
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: making are made with you know, with perfectly good reason,
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: because we can see that the decisions are not being
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: made in our interests. But you know, despair is not
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: the answer. And I think, you know a lot of
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: people would be very happy if more and more people
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: did just throw up their hands in despair and say, well,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: it's all hopeless, and you know, there's nothing we can do,
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: because if if, if that's the aatitude that we take
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: and we don't do anything, then nothing will ever change,
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: and we'll only it will only get worse. It's only
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: I think by embracing the antithesis of despair, which is hope,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: and saying that what happens next, both in my own
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: life but in broader social life, is up to us. Really,
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: we need to be the agents of change ourselves and
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: be active and be engaged and involving ourselves at the
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: local level with processes like creating food strategies is a
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: good place to start. So at the state level, at
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: the state level and federal level, we need the state
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: government to get engaged. We've talked about the ultra process
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: food industry, the burden of chronic disease. A big part
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: of the problem is that in the Victorian planning provisions,
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: the word health is not mentioned, the word well being
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: is not mentioned, the word for the phrase food security
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: is not mentioned. And that means that the fast food industry,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: as long as it's in you know, the so called
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: activity zone of the planning visions. Local governments have no
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: power to stop the expansion of of those businesses, and
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: they can set up and have set up across the
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: road from daycare centers, from early learning centers, and from
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: schools and primary schools. So this is a political.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Question in an accident that is not an accident, right.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: No, it absolutely not exactly exactly. And look at how
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: they you know, you look at how they market and
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: promote their products. So there what audience they're targeting rights,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: it's kids, it's it's young kids. This is wrong, you know,
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: if you know, if we're concerned about health and wellbeing
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: of our city, of our country, we cannot let this
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: industry which does not care about health and well being.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: It cares about its bottom line, it cares about its profits,
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: just to have carte blanche to expand wherever and whenever
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: it was. But to change this we actually have to
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: get involved in the political process. So we did that.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: My organization met with politicians in twenty twenty three. That
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: led to the establishment of two food security inquiries in
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: the Victorian Parliament last year, one looking at the mental
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: and dietary impacts of food poverty and food health in Victoria.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: As well as what can be done to expand affordable
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: access to good food. And the second one was looking
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: at securing Victorian Victoria's food supply and the impacts of
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: population growth and urban sprawl on food security. So both
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: those committees and we gave evidence, we made submissions, we
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: encouraged others to get evidence. Those committees reported in November
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: last year quite ambitious recommendations. They talked about legislating the
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: human rights good food for all in Victoria. They talked
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: about Victorian food system strategy, they talked about changing the
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: planning provisions. As I just mentioned the whole raft of things.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: It's like a really solid reform agenda for the Victorian government. Unfortunately,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: the Victorian government lasts not the week before last, issued
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: its report to those recommendations, which was very underwhelming. To
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: be frank, they did not embrace an ambitious reform agenda.
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: They said, well, we're already doing these kinds of things.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: We're already getting a lot of money to food bank.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: You know, we're kind of we've got it covered, we don't,
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: you know, We'll look at some of these things maybe
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: later on down the line and see if we think
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: it needs to be done. So that's disappointing. I'm not saying, well,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: that's you know, end of story. We're coming into an
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: election next to you in Victoria. This T shirt that
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: I've got on I Vote for Food. We have got
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: a campaign that we want to run where we want
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: candidates and sitting members to sign our pledge. There's five
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: elements of our Vote for Food Pledge and we can
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: share this link with the viewers later that are calling
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: for a healthy and fair food system that prioritizes human
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: and ecological health as the top priorities. And we want
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: our politicians to sign up to that. You know, we
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: think that's what they should be doing as our representatives.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: So that's the campaign that we'll be running going into the.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Did you const sorry? I love that. I love that
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: you're getting into the action.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Did you did you and your group ever consider creating
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: a political party.
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: It's funny you should say that because one of my
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: staff members, who comes from a farming family is a
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Kiwi and he's going back there next year, is actually yeah, throwing, throwing,
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: that's the path he's going down. He's saying, you know,
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: you've got to you've got to get in there and
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: roll your sleeves up and getting the political process if
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: you want change, So he's he's doing that. I have
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: not gone down that path yet, but we are. We
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: are building. We're trying to build a mass membership. That's
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: that's the next phase of our work. We've got a
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: digital platform called the Australian Food Network where we're wanting
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: to bring together people all around the country who care
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: about these things and want to find other people who
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: care about them and who want to share these kinds
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: of stories. I've been talking about stories of inspiration and
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: hope and to work together. So if we can, you know,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: if we can start to build some membership. We've got
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: about two hundred and fifty three hundred so far. If
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: we can get that, you know, up over a thousand
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: and beyond, then then yeah, quite quite possibly. I think
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: it's something that's definitely worth considering, definitely worth considering. But
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to finish perhaps with this discussion about
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: you know, bigger picture change and policy, to talk about
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: the federal government because obviously they're the you know, the
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: biggest resource they've got with us where most of the
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: money is. You know, they could do things like put
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: a super profits tax on the supermarket and invest in
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: urban farms and community gardens and school gardens. They could
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: use that money to invest in universal school meals, which
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: other countries have done. You know, That's that's where the
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: doal can really be shifted. So we have an opportunity
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: right now because as part of our Voat for Food campaign,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: we called on the federal government to commit to a
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: national food security strategy, and that's what the Albanezi government
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: did in March. They said they were going to create
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: the Feeding Australia Strategy it's called. So now we're expecting
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: them later this month or in September to make the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: first announcements about what that process is going to be
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: and where it's going to go forward. So we've been
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: meeting with the bureaucrats, the food policy team at DAFT,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: the Department of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries. We have been
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: saying to them, this has to be a participatory process.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: You cannot say, Okay, we've allocated three and a half
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: million the federal money to develop this strategy, We're just
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: going to chuck that to Price waterhouse Coopers or somebody
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: like that. Lock them in a room with Coles and
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: Wolworths in Australian Food and Grocery Council and right up.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: A strategy that's all about the interest of the big
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: end of towns needs to be open, it needs to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: be participatory, it needs to be inclusive, It needs to
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: prioritize our first nations, communities, and it needs to prioritize
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: the people who are living with food poverty and food insecurity,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: because that should be the priority of a national food
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: security strategy. So that's what we've been saying to them,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: that's what we expect them to do, and we are.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: It's an open invitation to work with people around the
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: country to involve ourselves in this process. And we've got
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: some ideas approaches about how we might take that take
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: that forward, but that's going to be starting, you know,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: quite quite solod.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Nick.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: This has been a very eye opening podcast that I
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: think affects everybody, whether you're an Australian listener, you're not
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: an Australian listener. I mean, I would imagine we could
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: look at many developed nations and the CM systemic issues
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: would be present in those nations. Look, there's teach cooms
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: here for individuals, but if they want to assess you
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: in your really important work and what sort of things
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: should they should they be doing this the Australian Food
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Network presumably they can go and join that and we'll
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: put all the links into the show notes. But what
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: would you like those who are concerned citizens who go, actually,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: I want to do something about this, even if it
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: is just giving my support to the people who are
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: actually taking the action.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: How can we help?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: Thank you? Thank you, Paul. Yeah, so I'm glad you
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: mentioned citizens because that is something that we're talking about here,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: food citizenship, food democracy. Let's get involved. If we want
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: to change the food system, we have to get involved
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: in shaping it, and that means inhabiting our identity as citizens,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: as participants in this policy that we that we call Australia.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: So I would say join, join us. You can become
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: a member, We'll share the link. It's sixty dollars a
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: year and that will connect you to the Australian Food
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: Network platform where you'll be meeting hundreds of people around
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: the country who are also on this journey, who've been
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: working in their own communities in different ways for many,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: many years. We have monthly webinars, we caught skill of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: the month where people can learn and understand different aspects
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: of the food system and how to change it. We've
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: got the Vote for Food campaign that will be ongoing,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: so that will also be a link, and you can
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: sign the pledge and add your name to support the
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: Vote for Food Pledge. Those would probably be the two,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I guess the two main calls to action. Consider becoming
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: a member of sustain and sign the Vote for Food Pledge,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: Join the Australian Food Network and you know find you know,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: find your fellows, your fellow companions in your local communities
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: and and get involved. There's so many different entry points
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: to this, so many different ways to be involved, and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: as I said, it's such a positive and empowering space
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: to be in so many ways. So yeah today, you know,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: seize the moments.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: And I would add into yeah, absolutely and give up
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: ten minutes of your time and take the extra trip
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: to the local green grocer and boucher sother than just
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: the supermarket.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Nick, this has been great. Thank you. I tip
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: my hat to you.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: So you're doing purposeful work and keep going, keep building
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: that steam up because it's important stuff.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you very much. Paul, I'm grateful for
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: the opportunity and yeah, thank you, thank you for giving
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: me the time to share some of my story and
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: why I do this work. And you know it really
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: it's the important work. I think, as Wendelberry said, you know,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: this is part of the great work that you know,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: all of us are live today, are engaged in. You know,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: I think all of us have to ask the question
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: why are we alive? Are we here?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: And for me it is to try and make you know,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: the positive change that I can with the experience and
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: skills and capacities and energy that I have. And and yeah,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: it's been it's been an honor and a pleasure to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: speak with you about it.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Wow, awesome, Thanks Matte.