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4: The Confidence Problem Every Real Estate Agent Faces · Real Talk Real Agents | A Real Estate Podcast for Agents

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And if I'm gonna be vulnerable for a minute, the imposter syndrome sometimes is
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coming out when an agent comes to me and says, you know, "The house isn't selling.
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Here's the feedback.
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What should I do?
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How do I talk to the seller?" I'm like, sometimes I wanna say, "I
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don't know." Nobody in real estate is gonna tell you the real stuff.
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So we will.
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We're gonna talk about all the stuff that nobody posts about.
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But everybody needs to hear.
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We've been in this industry long enough to know what works.
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And long enough to know what doesn't.
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I'm Pam.
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And I'm Mackenzie.
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And this is Real Talk, Real Agents.
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And this is Real Talk, Real Agents.
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If you're a real estate agent that is so tired of the fake it till you
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make it energy, this is your show.
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We are two agents who are still in it every single day, and we are
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not coaching from the sidelines.
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We are in the trenches with you.
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No filters and no fluff.
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All right, Real Talk starts right now.
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So it's interesting, I think what keeps coming up all the time, whether our
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agents are newer or maybe ourselves at times, just gonna call myself
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out, is this concept of imposter syndrome Mm. I mean, how often do
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you talk about it in small groups?
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Probably every single week, I imagine.
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Every single week.
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Yeah.
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Whether it's a listing appointment, thinking that they shouldn't be
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going on it, whether it's having a conversation with a seller,
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with a buyer, with anyone, right?
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Yeah.
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It's, um… as the market's changing, and we're all, like,
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in the Wild Wild West right now.
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Right.
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You know?
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Trying to, trying to figure out how to navigate.
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Yes, houses aren't selling as fast as they used to, and so we've got some
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really great agents, but they may be asking themselves, "What am I doing
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wrong?" Or, "Am I really a, a decent agent?" Because maybe it was market
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dependent- Mm … instead of my effort.
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Well, and if I'm gonna be vulnerable for a minute, the imposter syndrome sometimes is
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coming out when an agent comes to me and says, you know, "The house isn't selling.
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Here's the feedback.
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What should I do?
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How do I talk to the seller?" I'm like, sometimes I wanna
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say, "I don't know." Yeah.
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Or, "I don't know if I'm giving you the right advice or strategy." Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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So that's been, you know, that's been hard.
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Or saying, you know, "Maybe try this," and they try something
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different, and it works.
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And, um, I don't know.
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So that's kinda where it's really, it is, it's just, it's so different
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right now, and the emotions of it all has been a lot for everybody.
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Yeah.
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So where do you think, I guess, the f- the basis for some of that?
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Is it fear?
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Um, you know, I guess to the heart of it, like, where does
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the imposter syndrome come from?
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You know, I don't know where it happened, but sometimes I feel like… well, not
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sometimes, a lot of times, is we feel like we have to have all the answers.
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Yeah.
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When somebody asks us, asks us something.
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I literally just said to you, "I feel imposter syndrome 'cause I don't have
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the answers for our agents." Uh-huh.
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And it's scary to say, "I don't know." Well, right?
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And so I think immediately that imposter syndrome comes in because we don't know.
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Then, oh, my gosh, we spiral.
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I shouldn't have taken this listing.
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I shouldn't be doing this.
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I'm not good enough.
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I haven't been in the business long enough.
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I don't know.
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I don't know, right?
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And so I guess that's fear.
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Mm-hmm.
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And this whole idea that we have to know everything.
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And so for me to navigate the market that we're in right now, it's not
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trying to come in on that appointment thinking that I- Coming in hot Yeah.
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Well, coming in hot- … but that I know everything.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I want them to feel confident that I understand the market or just
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lay out, here are the scenarios.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know, here's path A, here's path B, and here's path C. Yeah.
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Any one of those I think will get to the right, will get to the conclusion
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of buying or selling a house.
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But I don't know.
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It's so interesting, though, to think about that.
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Like, almost wanting to flip the switch- the script or whatever on that
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is maybe it's the smartest thing to do is to say, "I don't know" sometimes.
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Like, it's almost societal.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know?
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Like, we're all marching like, "I got all the answers. I
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know what I'm doing." Mm-hmm.
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"I've got my little flag here, and I'm gonna die on every single hill
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associated with that." Um, but gosh, I mean, there, there's almost something
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powerful of saying like, "I don't know, but we're gonna figure this out together.
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Like, what I do know is- Mm-hmm … my skillset is-" We're gonna listen, we're
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gonna watch, we're gonna learn, and we're gonna react based on all that information.
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Right.
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So I don't know, it's just interesting.
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Yes.
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And I think on the, not the flip, but in addition too, is that I think
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that other imposter part comes out, 'cause you're gonna say that to
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a, a client, and they're not gonna like that, or a prospective client.
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They're gonna want you to have all the answers.
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A clear plan.
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A clear plan.
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Yeah.
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So then I'm sitting here listening to you going, "You're right." And
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then if they're okay, not okay with that, then you know what?
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Then they're not meant to work with me.
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'Cause that's the other thing too is we s- we push, we push sometimes so hard- Yeah
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into these… But maybe there's a variation where both work.
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It's like, here's my experience, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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This is what history has shown me, and this is my best guesstimate of how this
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is gonna go- For sure … based on all the data and experience and all that.
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But this is also what I'm telling you- Mm-hmm … is that this is a market
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that we haven't seen in a while.
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Mm-hmm.
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And it's moving really, really quickly.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so we're gonna have to be nimble.
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Mm-hmm.
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We're gonna have to think on our feet a little bit.
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Yeah.
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Maybe more so than we did before.
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So I'm not gonna sit here and promise you, I'm not gonna
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bullshit you that we're gonna sell multiple offers first, first day.
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Mm-hmm.
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God bless if we did.
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But- It's been a hot minute- … since that's happened for me, for the record.
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Yeah, but here's the plan.
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You and I are gonna talk, you know- Mm-hmm … every three or four days.
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The, so we're really feeling it together.
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Mm-hmm.
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Whatever that is.
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Mm-hmm.
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But it is kind of interesting, the power almost in saying,
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"I'm not gonna lie to you.
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I'm not gonna overpromise you.
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I don't know 100% how this is gonna go." Mm-hmm.
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"I have some good guesses." Right.
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"But we're in this together." Well, and trying to flip the mindset a
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little bit that, okay, im- imposter syndrome is not a new term.
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Yeah.
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We've heard it for, for years, right?
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Yeah.
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We've heard people talking about it, we've all felt it.
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But I liked, um, a different perspective on it was if we can say, okay, but it's
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not really imposter, we're just growing.
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Mm. Mm-hmm.
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'Cause I will tell you that I've probably grown the most in real estate
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in the last 18 months than I did in my first four years in real estate.
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Oh, girl, yes.
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Because… I have felt more imposter syndrome personally.
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Right.
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'Cause as we've talked before, I was way overly confident when I first started, and
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continue to be, kind of in selling homes.
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Mm-hmm.
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This is gonna sound terrible.
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This is not, this is not a rocket science job.
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Like s- No … like the process of getting a home ready to sell and all of that.
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Mm-hmm.
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Certainly a process.
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There is skill to it.
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I'm not trying to downplay it.
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But we are not curing cancer.
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Right.
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You know, like, we overcomplicate things sometimes.
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Yes.
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So there's confidence in that.
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I was like, I got this.
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Mm-hmm.
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Done that, been there, done that.
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But I would like for us to talk about- Mm-hmm … kind of, like, us getting
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out of our comfort zone this year, of trying to really move into more of a
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leadership, kinda, like, full leadership of people, of growing a firm and growing
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a team, and that is, that gets you all up in your feels of what's different.
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Yes, it does.
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And then you've got a market that's like, I don't even know.
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Crazy too, right?
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It's crazy, yes.
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Yeah.
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Well, and we can pivot to that a little bit.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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The imposter syndrome of, um, you know, I think you and I are
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sitting in the moment right now of if you build it, they will come.
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Yes.
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And so now we're building it, and now they're coming, and
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now we're like, "Oh, shit."
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Well, I- it's, it's amazing, right?
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Yeah.
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Like, you invite people to come into a mastermind.
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You pray to God people come, first of all.
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Yeah.
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You're like, "Please build it and not be Mackenzie," you know?
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And then people show up, and then you're like… And then they're looking
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at you, and you're like, "Oh, shit.
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Okay.
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Mm-hmm.
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I guess, all right.
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Well, here, you know.
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Let's see what brilliance I can talk about today.
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Yeah, so there- there's definitely moments of, like, am I ready for this?
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Um, and then there's other things that kind of, I don't know, there's the
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excitement part of that too, is if you can kinda lean into that fear a little bit and
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realize that people are craving village.
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They're craving some type of leadership.
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I'm not saying we're the best, but I, what I will say is that we care
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passionately about it, and that's the foundation of all of it, I think.
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Mm-hmm.
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But yeah, I've had moments of looking up and going, "Okay, I
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guess we're doing this," you know?
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Are, are we qualified to do that?
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But I almost feel like that's the right way, because we have followed
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leaders before that solidly said that they had all the answers and were
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painfully disappointed when they didn't.
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And so I'd much rather be vulnerable and say, "We're, we're working with you.
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We are figuring this out together.
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Mm-hmm.
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And we're all gonna grow because of it," 'cause I certainly don't
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have all the answers, and I'm not gonna lie and say that I do.
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Well, and for me, I'm, it just, it gives me a little bit of
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space to- M- mess up, right?
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Yeah.
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Because we haven't, haven't come across that we have all the answers
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or, um, that my way is the right way and this is the only way to, to do it.
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So that's, that has helped in this role, that has helped in the
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growth of the company to, yeah, I mean, you, you wanna align with us?
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You know, I have to stop, you know.
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Yeah.
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I don't say it out loud to the person, but I was like- Yeah … oh, okay.
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And then, and then I immediately go into, what do I have to offer?
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What can I give them?
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What do they need?
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What, what… They can get this from somewhere else.
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What, you know, and, and then immediately start to discount, right?
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Mm. Or feel like I have to then do more than I've already been doing.
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Right.
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But what I was doing was enough to attract them to the village in the first place.
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So why do I have- Yeah … to do anything else?
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So I mean, that is such a real moment.
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I mean, that applies for all, it's probably every industry,
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but with real estate too, right?
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Like, we get the appointment, we get the listing, and then immediately- … we
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start going, "This is all the shit I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna do more,
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and I'm gonna be amazing." "And I'm gonna kill myself trying to sell
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this house," you know, and you're like- … "Oh my God, lady, take a
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breath." Like, they're not panicking yet.
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Like, your energy is making them panic.
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Um, it, it is, it's so funny.
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But I do hope that sharing- I don't know.
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You know, you, someone's day one to your, your 20 or whatever.
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Um, we talk a lot about newer agents and the panic that they have, and I just
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hope they understand and realize that no matter what, if you're growing- Mm-hmm
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and you're trying to do something bigger, you're al- I think you're always gonna
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have these moments of, "Oh, shit. Okay, now we're moving into a different phase."
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Yeah, and to, you know, I guess, put a little bow on this conversation about
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it, so we're sharing that we have it.
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We still have it.
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Mm-hmm.
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We'll continue to have it.
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So how can we, or what can we share with our, and our listeners.
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By the way, thank you for listening.
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We appreciate you.
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Um- Like and subscribe.
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Exactly.
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You, so what y- you and I aren't stopping what we're doing.
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No.
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We're still feeling all of these feelings that we're sharing.
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We know you're confident.
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We know you're overconfident, as we shared in other, b- um, I'll just dig
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in deep and just do it even though I'm scared shit lists sorta thing.
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So but for maybe the listener out there who isn't overconfident or who just
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won't put her blinders on, his or her blinders on and just do it, you know,
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how can we help our community out there listening about that imposter syndrome?
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So I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think it is creating an
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environment that doesn't laugh at people, it doesn't point people- Mm-hmm
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make them feel bad about taking chances.
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Maybe laughing with them a little bit.
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Um- We have to do that.
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But we have to keep it honest.
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But, um, I think the moment that we start to feel fear,
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you project it on other people.
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So personal story.
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Um, I've laughed.
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My daughter has been in, she's back now, but she's been in Italy for two and a
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half weeks, and I thought to myself, I, at 22 years old, there's literally no,
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uh, the fear that that would have caused me to have would've been paralyzing.
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Mm-hmm.
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And in fact, before I left, I was leaving her alone.
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I said, "I will buy you a ticket home. Are you ready to come back?" I said, "'Cause
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you're getting ready to take a train from Rome to Sur-" And, like, she was having
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to do planes, trains, and automobiles by herself, doesn't know the language. And
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she looked at me, and she goes, "I got it.
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I'm good." And I thought, "The confidence on this kid- … is, like, ridiculous."
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But I looked back and reflected.
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Even though I have been scared for her at times, I have bit my tongue so many times
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because I've wanted her to fail, push past the fear- Mm … and do those things.
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And now looking at the confidence that she has built over time,
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through probably eating it a little bit, but I didn't hold her back- Mm
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even though I wanted to.
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And you've done the same thing.
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Mm. You've got a kid that lives, goes to school 10 hours away.
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Mm. And as a mother, you wanna go, "Do not do that." Mm-mm.
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And my reality was different earlier because my family, they were so fearful,
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and so they held on so very tightly.
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And so I think we don't hold onto people tightly.
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Mm-hmm.
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You allow them to kind of do the thing, and, uh, you
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know, and I don- I don't know.
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There's… Man, there's… I'm, I'm proud of myself for not holding on so tightly
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to her that I have put her in a box, and I hope we do the same with our agents.
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That's all.
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And I'm learning through all that, too, on how to be vulnerable and-
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do the things.
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I'm just taking a moment- … because that was, there's a lot there.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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There's a lot there.
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Yes.
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And I'm sitting there thinking, "Is there any way that I am holding
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the agents back? And because I so badly want them to succeed." Right.
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We don't want them to fail.
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We don't want them to fail.
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Right.
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It's coming from a place of love.
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Right.
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However, where does that
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failure
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need to come into play because that's gonna be on the other side.
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I think of an agent on our team who is just on the phones every single day,
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and he is getting his butt whipped.
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Mm-hmm.
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And he is showing up, and he is showing up, and he is
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showing up, and he is failing.
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And it's just… And he called me yesterday and we were talking
15:53
about something and said, "Well, I gotta show this client this house,
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but then I've gotta figure out how to show this client this house."
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And he stopped and reflected.
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He said, "Oh my God, it's pretty cool to say that I've got two clients I'm working
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with right now." One on one, right.
16:05
Right?
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And just watching him not give up, and watching the im- 'cause
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he has the imposter syndrome.
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Mm-hmm.
16:15
Because he calls and we talk about it and talk it through, and I've
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got you in my ear saying I can give him as much information as
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possible, but he also has to do it.
16:24
Mm-hmm.
16:25
Right?
16:26
And so anyway, listening to you, just making sure there's that
16:29
fine line of giving them the guidance, giving them the blueprint.
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Mm-hmm.
16:34
Because the beautiful thing is, is whatever we give to them, they're
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gonna create just a little bit of their own, and then they're gonna
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get their own special sauce- Yeah
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of what then helps them to convert at a higher level or whatever
16:47
the case may be, you know?
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Our, our job is, is, is the blueprint.
16:53
Yeah.
16:53
Is the space, like you just said, to it's okay- It is okay … to make a
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mistake, and it's okay to, to not know.
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Like yesterday, our Advice.
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I hate the word advice, but I guess our thoughts, opinion, to
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an agent were very different.
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Mm. I don't know if you remember that yesterday after the team meeting.
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Which, well- To the same agent, you know, about, um, like what next steps.
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I'm not trying to call anybody out, but everybody listen, we
17:23
only have two men on our team.
17:28
David or Charles.
17:29
Exactly.
17:30
And I feel like, sorry Charles, yep, talking about you, but I
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think you'd be okay with it.
17:35
Yeah.
17:35
Don't you think?
17:36
I think, I hope.
17:37
Just kidding.
17:37
I think so too.
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I, I did not realize that you and I were on different pages there.
17:42
What I was getting ready to say, and then- And then bossy pants rolled up.
17:46
That is not what I said.
17:47
There was no bossy pants going on.
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I actually love it when you, you don't have as many opportunities to have
17:54
conversations- Yeah … with agents.
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And so I try to be very self-aware of that.
17:59
Mm. Because I do want them to hear from you.
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They need to hear from other people.
18:03
Yeah.
18:03
Right?
18:04
It just, where our, it's just- Yeah
18:05
you know what I mean?
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So.
18:06
I'm physically not in the Carrie relocation office.
18:09
Well, exactly.
18:10
Yeah.
18:10
And it just lends more of the side conversations.
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And, or if they have a market question about our market, right?
18:16
Mm, right.
18:16
They're not, you know, like the coastal agents aren't coming to me.
18:18
Do not call me.
18:18
Yeah, exactly.
18:19
Don't call me about a beach house- … 'cause I'm gonna say,
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"Call Pam." Um, and we're sitting there and I was listening to you talk
18:26
to him and I was like, "All right.
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Me three years ago?" That would have, I would have internalized that and
18:36
thought about that for probably 48 hours.
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Interesting.
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And would have been like, "Oh my gosh, like, I w- what if Pam wouldn't have been
18:43
there and I would have given different advice, or I would have done something
18:46
d- you know, said something differently?"
18:49
And my moment was I listened to you and I was like, first of all, I was like,
18:52
"Well, she can take it. I'm tired." Valid.
18:57
And then I was like, "All right." And I sat there and I
19:02
completely just listened, right?
19:03
Yeah.
19:03
I think I didn't say anything, and then I just talked it into my little thing.
19:06
Like, next time an agent has a similar situation or question, I just, I just
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learned something, or I looked at something in a different way, and I
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haven't thought about it since- Yeah
19:15
until we talked about this right now.
19:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:16
I, I do remember.
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I mean, I remember- Mm-hmm … things changed.
19:20
Yeah.
19:20
And- And I think- … it wasn't like grossly different- No … but it was
19:23
just, I think maybe the presentation or, not even the presentation.
19:26
We didn't do a presentation.
19:26
I think I- The delivery would have been different maybe.
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So I mean, we can… It, it's actually a really good question
19:33
I think for newer agents.
19:35
He's working with a client that, uh, for some home buyer really wants to buy, but
19:41
I sensed that there was some fear there.
19:45
And I think when you're newer agents, like you're trying to find the right answer
19:50
or solution without asking the right questions enough to really figure out
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what solution you're trying to figure out.
19:58
Well, and it goes back to the beginning that we feel like we
20:00
have to have all the answers.
20:01
100%. It was actually full circle, yeah.
20:04
We just full circled all of that.
20:05
And I was like, that's, that's, that was not the answers.
20:08
The, the question was what, you know- Right … you gotta get to the
20:11
fear of what, what's going on there.
20:12
So then going back to really tie this up is, so as leaders, it's
20:16
making sure we're asking really great, really great questions to
20:21
not give them the answers, right?
20:23
Yeah.
20:24
To, but to let them know that so you don't, you don't know it all.
20:28
No.
20:29
And going back to comparing chapter one with chapter 10, you know, the agents
20:32
will sometimes will make comments, "You know, well you guys have done this,
20:35
or you got on this many appointments, or you sold this many houses."
20:39
And- But man, I used to be just, you know- 100% … be there and just trying
20:45
to r- keep reminding them of that.
20:48
Or if somebody comes up with a different price when we're doing listing strategy
20:52
lately, it's just like somebody … We were doing, I think it was two, um, two
20:55
strategies or two of the trainings ago.
20:58
Uh, they're like, "What?"
20:59
You know, I try to not … They, they're so afraid to give me the
21:01
number before I give them my number, 'cause they don't wanna be wrong.
21:04
I was like- It's like role play too … exactly.
21:08
Like, I'm just like- You know, it's like, "Well, you go, let's go first." And I'm
21:09
like, "No, no, you go first." I'm like, "No one's gonna, nothing's gonna happen."
21:11
Ex- exactly.
21:12
I'm just like, "What is your number?" Bec- and it's a confidence thing, right?
21:15
It is.
21:16
Yeah.
21:16
Um, but they are just still s- so scared to give the number before I do.
21:20
So I gave my number first, and it was drastically different than some-
21:23
and I could see it in their faces.
21:24
And I was like- Mm-hmm … "Well, no, what's your number?"
21:26
Yeah.
21:27
And I'm just like, you know.
21:28
And so we talked about it, and it, we came to … 'Cause there was a piece that I'd
21:32
missed, or I was like, "You know what?
21:33
That's a really good point." So then I would say to the seller,
21:36
"Let's meet in the middle of," I'm making up numbers, "if it's 250
21:38
to 300, let's meet at 275." Right.
21:41
"And this is why." Um, so I think it's good for them to have a
21:47
different answer, a different number.
21:49
100%. And, but for me not to- It's the only way you're gonna learn … right.
21:52
Mm-hmm.
21:52
And for me not to be like, "Well, actually, no, it should be this
21:55
because of this." 'Cause in reality, going back to the market- Who knows?
21:59
I have no idea what the right number is.
22:04
50. 275, 350, huh?
22:04
I don't know.
22:04
You know, we'll figure it out.
22:05
It's going to sell, we just don't know when or how, right?
22:08
Yeah.
22:08
Yeah.
22:08
So.
22:09
I don't know.
22:10
I don't know.
22:10
It's, it's- So I think all of this is telling our listeners is you're
22:16
probably always gonna have it.
22:18
It might come out and look differently.
22:20
If you're growing, you will.
22:21
If you're growing.
22:21
Yeah.
22:22
Fair enough.
22:22
Thank you.
22:22
Great point.
22:24
Um, it might come, manifest and come out in different ways, but if you can take
22:28
that moment to watch something else, I think you can be pretty aware of it and
22:32
just, it's so worth to power through.
22:34
'Cause you imagine if we didn't
22:36
I think about if we didn't take the chance of going independent- Oh,
22:40
yeah … at the beginning of the year, how things would- Well, it was a big move.
22:44
And I think we both were like, "Are we ready?" You know, do, do we feel,
22:48
do we really feel like we can provide something that's remarkably different?
22:54
And I don't know, the longer we build, the more I feel very strongly that we do.
23:01
And also want, before I forget, we had a mastermind today Brandi Niemegk.
23:07
I just, some moments of pride there to watch where she was when she started
23:14
versus where she is today, and she very much… I mean, it was r- a lot of talk
23:19
around mindset, and it was around kind of- Mm-hmm … imposter syndrome too.
23:23
She's built her business around YouTube, and to think about turning on a camera
23:28
when you don't particularly love doing that work, and then the, "Well,
23:31
my, my hair looks like shit today.
23:34
I, I said that" kind of crazy.
23:36
And she's really battling through, and has been, that imposter
23:42
syndrome to where she's really, she's created something remarkable.
23:47
Yes.
23:48
Remarkable.
23:48
Yeah.
23:49
I was so thankful that she came and spoke.
23:50
Oh, my God.
23:51
It was great.
23:51
It was- To- … really great to see.
23:53
Mm-hmm.
23:53
From a brand new agent- Mm
23:55
just a few years ago, to where she is today, I just, it was great.
23:58
We would all aspire to have that business- 100% … that well.
24:01
All about growth, all about being- Mm … uncomfortable and being okay with it.
24:04
Mm-hmm.
24:04
So take it as a blessing.
24:06
If you feel uncomfortable, you feel like you're a little bit of imposter,
24:09
you just gotta keep mastering it before you're not an imposter of that.
24:13
Then move on to the next topic- … where you'll feel like an imposter yet again.
24:17
And, uh, you'll just keep growing.
24:21
All right.
24:21
I have a question for you.
24:22
All right.
24:23
You ever walked into a listing appointment even though you've done it 100 times
24:27
and thought, "Do I know what I'm doing?"
24:33
Our favorite segment.
24:34
Oh, yeah.
24:36
Let's get a weekly vibe check.
24:39
So you're coming off vacation, by the way.
24:41
I was just gonna say, so my vibe check- … is a little bit, is a little different.
24:46
Although I will say, like, I don't know, it's hard going on vacation for
24:51
a lot of reasons, because we do have certain clients that expect us to be,
24:56
like we have no other life besides- Mm
24:58
real estate, and that is almost true.
25:02
Most of the time.
25:04
Um, so I chose not to share right now my trip to Italy, because I've got
25:11
some clients that even though I was managing everything and I put one under
25:15
contract and listed one while I was gone, that, um, they… I just felt
25:20
like it was poor timing because of that.
25:23
So that was maybe a little bit of a weird spot for me, 'cause my
25:26
family's like, "What the hell? She's not, she's not-" I even texted you.
25:29
I was like, "Where are my pictures?" I'm just like, "What's going on?
25:32
You alive out there?" I was like, and then I, you texted them to me.
25:35
Yeah.
25:35
And didn't, yeah.
25:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:36
And so- I wanna make sure I wasn't missing anything.
25:38
I know.
25:38
Like- I was ready to live vicariously through you … they're like,
25:40
"Is she defriending?" Exactly.
25:42
Exactly.
25:43
Um, so I don't know.
25:44
I, it was, um, vacation was great, do not get me wrong.
25:48
But the balance, I think, of like trying to do it all and, I don't know, it's,
25:53
uh- Did you feel bad going on vacation?
25:57
No, I mean, I didn't feel bad, and again, I had a lovely time Guilty?
26:01
I'm putting words in your mouth.
26:06
No.
26:07
I think I was just really aware that, and this is okay, that certain
26:13
clients and people that we have in our life, they don't have the ability
26:17
in their current mental condition to handle someone else's thing.
26:23
And I felt okay in the moment going, "Who gives a shit?
26:29
I'm on vacation anyway.
26:30
I don't live for Facebook anyway, so I'm just gonna enjoy my life." But
26:36
then I realized when I get back, people are like, "I wanna see pictures," and
26:39
I'm like, "Oh, it's kinda weird to go somewhere and not share," right?
26:42
So also wanna live authentically and realize that, you know, I do wanna
26:47
share personal parts about my life, too.
26:49
So I don't know.
26:50
It's just a weird… It was a little bit of a weird dynamic- Yes … on vacation.
26:54
I… Okay.
26:54
But anyway, that's all.
26:55
Just trying to be real.
26:56
Yeah.
26:59
And I think you and I finally spoke after being gone, so my weekly
27:02
vibe check was, it was heavy.
27:06
She had, she had a, she had a week.
27:09
She- Had a week … not because you went on vacation.
27:12
No, I think most- However we- … of this was independent- … of me being gone.
27:15
Exactly.
27:15
I think there were a couple things that, you know, it's obviously you
27:19
were, you were taking a lot of energy.
27:21
Yeah.
27:21
That was a thing I noticed the difference when we talked.
27:24
Like- Mm-hmm … I was in like a moment of a little zen- Mm-hmm
27:27
just because I was like super reflective- Mm-hmm … which
27:30
you probably picked up on.
27:31
Yep.
27:32
Trying to be aware of- Mm-hmm … things around me when I'm on vacation.
27:36
So I was like really calm and reserved, and Mackenzie's like, "This just happened-
27:39
… and let me tell you about this. And then this happened." 'Cause I hadn't bottled
27:43
it up for the 12 days that you were gone.
27:45
I talked to you every other day, if not every day, and I'm like, "I'm
27:48
not gonna bother Pam with this- And then I was like- … BS" … "Okay.
27:51
I'll, I'll pop." And I was just like, and you said, "I have time
27:53
at 12 o'clock on Monday." I'm like, "Well, I'm getting my hour."
27:58
It was just, I, I, I just, I am so glad.
28:00
Welcome to reentry- I know
28:02
Pamela.
28:03
I was like, "Baby, can I have Tuesday too?" Nope, you cannot.
28:07
I gave you 12 days.
28:08
I did not bother you.
28:10
I was a big girl.
28:11
I know.
28:11
I took care of all the problems.
28:12
She did not bother at all.
28:12
At all.
28:14
But it was just, you know, um, yes, it's… I don't know.
28:20
It's, I have been reflective on watching other people and how
28:23
they are handling situations.
28:27
Yeah.
28:27
Mm-hmm.
28:27
And, and because I am trying, going back to what we talked about is, you
28:33
know, not giving them all the answers, not having a- all the answers, but
28:36
just sitting back and doing nothing, and just watching a little bit.
28:41
Mm-hmm.
28:42
Right?
28:42
And then, um, I don't know.
28:44
Yeah, it was a, it was a heavy, it was a heavy week.
28:46
Yeah.
28:46
And just really trying to, um,
28:50
I know we talk about manage people's expectations, but man, I don't know.
28:54
Well, we're, I think we're gonna do another topic around emotional
28:57
intelligence um, in a couple weeks too, and I think, I don't know.
29:03
We're just… I was talking to Debra behind the camera before we started, and
29:08
Everything feels a little heavy right now.
29:10
I don't know.
29:11
It's just, it's universe.
29:12
It's, you know, it's- Mm-hmm … gas prices are high, and- It's
29:17
108 degrees It's 1,000 degrees outside with 1,000% humidity.
29:21
Humidity.
29:22
And yeah, it's just a combination a lot.
29:25
And we've had some really challenging deals, and honestly
29:28
speaking, we've had some really challenging clients here recently.
29:31
Mm-hmm.
29:32
We have.
29:32
And, um, I mean, blessed on all accounts to be able to handle it, but, um,
29:36
sometimes things are just not smooth and easy and, and, and cheerful.
29:40
And so we've been in a little bit of that for a few weeks now.
29:44
We have.
29:45
So, um, I have decided that because people are peopling right now, Mm-hmm … I
29:51
am going into this, I'm trying to, I guess efficiency is my word right now.
29:56
Yes.
29:56
I'm trying to be- Control the controllables, right?
29:58
Correct.
29:58
Mm-hmm.
29:58
So, like, how can I… 'Cause I can't control- Crazy.
30:01
Yeah.
30:01
… all this over here, so how can I control some other things to… So
30:06
if I'm working on this, but I still want these systems to help for our
30:09
agents- Mm-hmm … I have kinda jumped on this whole bandwagon of Claude.
30:15
So, and I'm super intrigued by it because I've s- I mean, obviously
30:18
you hear and see people using it.
30:20
Mm-hmm.
30:20
So I'm, I'm very intrigued to kinda dig down and see.
30:23
'Cause I started with ChatGPT because we're, you know, you hear, you know, AI's
30:28
not gonna replace agents, it's just gonna replace the agent who won't use it, right?
30:31
I think that's been the motto- Yeah … for the last year
30:33
and a half, maybe two years.
30:35
Yep.
30:35
I don't know.
30:36
And so I was like, "All right, I don't… Okay, I can learn something
30:39
new." I'm not gonna be left behind.
30:39
Exactly.
30:39
I'll just, you know… And I, you know, I was started with, you know, "Help
30:42
me rewrite this email so it sounds professional, yet stern," or whatever.
30:46
Yeah.
30:46
And so whatever.
30:47
Or listing remarks.
30:48
But now it's the efficiency and it's- Mm-hmm … um, not can I
30:52
do more, like, 'cause I think you can get into that trap too.
30:56
Yeah.
30:56
Like, well, if he can create all of this, but it's just… Like, something
30:59
for our team meeting, you know.
31:01
We, our, our mindset was on the New York Knicks.
31:03
They just won, you know, the NB, um, the NBA championship, and it's like how
31:06
can… There's always so many analogies between sports and between, um, sales,
31:11
and what can we learn from them coming 29 points- Yeah … you know, behind-
31:15
It's crazy … and not giving up.
31:16
Mm-hmm.
31:17
And asking Claude, you know, giving them the… I can, you can tell it
31:23
what, how your team runs and the community and the vibe and all that,
31:26
and just, it's just fascinating that what would've taken me I don't even know
31:31
how long, but create a very systematic-
31:36
It's process, I guess, um, blueprint.
31:39
It go… I keep using that word, that I just spit it out this amazing system
31:43
So how is Chat and Claude different?
31:46
So I feel like Chat is my therapist.
31:49
Mm-hmm.
31:49
And Chat tells me what I wanna hear- Okay … which is so weird- All
31:52
right … 'cause the more you use it.
31:53
I don't know.
31:54
Maybe it's just the way… I'm a very- Yeah
31:56
touchy-feely person.
31:59
You know?
31:59
Um, Claude is more… It's been more, how do you want this to work better and
32:06
how can I integrate into what system that you wanna work into, I think.
32:10
I don't know.
32:10
And you've been working on an integration really with Claude and Notion.
32:15
And Notion, correct.
32:15
And Notion.
32:16
So, you know, we talked about that we have a team, Capital Coast team,
32:20
and we also are a brokerage as well.
32:22
And so we have independent agents joining our brokerage.
32:25
Mm-hmm.
32:25
So I want it to be very… It… One of the whole reasons why we, we didn't
32:30
know if we wanted to do is because time is our b- I don't know h- I only
32:33
have so much time in the day, right?
32:34
Mm-hmm.
32:34
So we want to make sure that independent agents who join our team
32:38
have the systems and the processes.
32:40
So Claude has helped me figure out a wa- helped me in a much quicker
32:44
way figure out how to create this own community- This side.
32:48
Mm-hmm … this side community that coincides with, and so
32:51
I'm not doubling up my work.
32:53
So I was like, "Here's what I'm creating for the team. Now how can
32:55
I do this on independent side?"
32:57
And bam.
32:58
And the other day, Claude's like, "Well, if you would just give me the
33:01
access to Notion, I can completely go in there and integrate it."
33:04
And I was like, "Sorry, Claude.
33:06
I haven't talked to Pamela yet about going into Notion." That's wild, though.
33:10
I mean, it's cool.
33:11
But literally- Yeah … the co-working space and it knows Notions,
33:13
like you can, you can like- Mm.
33:15
Uh, again, this is… I am not a tech person.
33:17
This is just me trying to not be left completely behind in the world.
33:20
Um, there's a way to integrate the two.
33:22
So the tool that I'm really working on is, so this is running next to me- Mm-hmm
33:27
… a process, and I'm still can have those heavy conversations with an agent.
33:32
Yeah.
33:33
So it's not… So I'm being more efficient.
33:34
So the end of the day, I had Claude create… I said, "This is my idea for
33:39
the mindset piece of our team meeting. What can you come up with?" It spit it
33:43
out as I'm on the phone helping an agent negotiate a due diligence repair request.
33:48
That's awesome.
33:48
Yeah.
33:48
And I… Oh, I left my phone on, so sorry.
33:52
My goodness.
33:52
This is real life.
33:53
Exactly.
33:54
Um, so that's, that's kind of what I'm- Yeah … 'cause I, I, I want some, a
33:59
little bit more time back in the day.
34:01
Yeah.
34:02
I'm not gonna lie.
34:03
No, I mean, literally there's not enough hours to do- Yeah … all the things,
34:06
and then you can feel torn, right?
34:07
Mm-hmm.
34:08
So, yeah.
34:08
And I'm not trying to, like, become an AI expert.
34:10
It's just that will never be, y- you know who I am.
34:12
But, um- And if though I can, 'cause I've been able to share it
34:16
with some of the other agents, and they're just like, "Mackenzie, this
34:19
is so much more efficient." Yeah.
34:20
And so they're using it in their business to be more efficient, 'cause one of
34:23
our things is talking about leverage.
34:25
I'm using Claude as leverage.
34:27
Awesome.
34:28
So can I integrate it with Notion?
34:31
Oh, of course.
34:32
If it's gonna create some efficiencies and make life easier- Mm-hmm … then yeah.
34:36
Yeah.
34:37
I don't think there's anything sensitive in there that I would worry about.
34:39
No.
34:40
Well, I just don't wanna break it.
34:42
You know me, I can break a spreadsheet.
34:46
Okay.
34:46
Maybe we should- They can't… So maybe Claude is the answer.
34:50
Exactly.
34:51
The good news is Claude can undo whatever it does I think too.
34:54
So.
34:54
Or he just does it.
34:56
Exactly.
34:57
So any tools for you?
34:59
And it's okay if you don't since you were on vacay.
35:01
I was on vacay, so it's not really tool mode other than just it is
35:06
amazing that you can be hours and hours away, and no one really has to know.
35:12
Nope.
35:13
And that's why you're on a team.
35:14
True.
35:15
'Cause you have people behind you to be able to do all that stuff for you.
35:17
100%. I mean, it was so smooth.
35:19
Mm-hmm.
35:20
It just, yeah, just it was perfect literally.
35:23
Awesome.
35:23
All right, Pamela, this is our real talk or rapid fire.
35:26
I'm gonna ask you a question, and you're gonna answer just
35:29
however it comes to your mind.
35:30
Okay.
35:30
Are you ready for this?
35:32
Let's do it.
35:32
Yes.
35:34
Does imposter syndrome ever go away?
35:36
No.
35:38
Well, I take that back.
35:39
Again, if you're not growing, if you just love status quo, then sure.
35:44
I mean, I don't know, I think of a few people in my life that are just, you know,
35:49
they're happy and content, and they're not looking to do wild, crazy things.
35:53
Mm-hmm.
35:53
So they probably don't suffer with it as much.
35:56
Okay.
35:56
But I think, yeah.
35:58
I like it.
35:59
What's the fastest way to shake it in the moment?
36:03
Mm. I will say, when I first started in pharmaceutical sales, somebody told me,
36:08
"Take a deep breath, pause before you speak to settle your voice." And when I
36:16
first started at 24 years old, calling on, you know, medical doctors, that was…
36:22
I was definitely, um, that, that was one thing that just really helped me.
36:26
So in the moment, whether you're doing video, just take a deep breath.
36:30
No one notices.
36:32
Mm-hmm.
36:33
I love that.
36:34
Okay, love this question.
36:35
I cannot wait- Oh, no … to what your answer is.
36:39
Oh, no.
36:40
No, it's good.
36:40
No, it's good, 'cause you're so… You're… Yeah, it's good.
36:42
What's the difference between imposter syndrome and actually
36:46
needing more training?
36:49
Huh.
36:51
So I think imposter syndrome is like an emotion.
36:53
It's, it's how you feel.
36:54
It's your confidence piece.
36:57
Education for the most part, that… And that part is also
37:03
derived through experience, right?
37:05
Mm-hmm.
37:05
And just doing the damn thing.
37:07
Education is something you could pick up a book, learn from someone else.
37:11
I, I just, I… It's two totally different things in my opinion No, it's great.
37:17
Last question: what do you say to an agent who's been in the business 10
37:22
years and still feels like a fraud?
37:26
Ooh, that's a really good question.
37:29
I know, that's why I left it to the end.
37:31
Yeah, no, I, I, like everything in life, I say I think you've just
37:34
gotta ask really great questions.
37:36
Like, I think it's almost like a little therapy session.
37:38
Like, truly what is holding them back?
37:40
What is the fear?
37:42
Um, because you have experience at that point, right?
37:46
So you should have confidence.
37:47
So if you're still experiencing some imposter syndrome, I think
37:50
you gotta do a little deep dive on, on what is holding you back.
37:55
What's the worst-case scenario?
37:56
Like, why, why don't you just try it?
37:58
Mm-hmm.
37:59
It's probably not nearly as scary as you think it's gonna be.
38:03
And then you have that experience to lean back on.
38:05
You've probably done many, many things that were scarier before,
38:08
and you're still standing.
38:09
The Earth is still spinning.
38:11
Um, but yeah, I probably would just honestly sit and have, just a, try to
38:15
have a real conversation with them.
38:17
There's a fear there that needs to be unlocked.
38:19
Mm-hmm.
38:20
And Pamela's very good at unlocking those things- … FYI, if you would
38:23
like a separate session with her.
38:25
Yeah, I missed my calling apparently.
38:27
You 100% missed your calling.
38:30
All right, Pam, we're gonna close this one out on imposter syndrome.
38:33
Yep.
38:33
So for those who stayed with us the entire time, thank you so much.
38:38
Don't forget to like or subscribe if you already forgot the first time.
38:42
What's the one thing that you want our listeners to walk away with this week?
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I think just think about the fear in your life.
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Just, like, face it head-on.
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There's something holding you back.
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I don't know what it is or why that is, but sit in silence, think about
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it for a little bit, maybe journal.
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I, the one thing I'll say the blessing for me is going on vacation.
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It purposely makes you slow down and be really self-aware of who you
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are, what's going on around you.
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And so that to me is probably the bigger value in vacation, period.
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So take some time for yourself, whatever that looks like.
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There's something that's holding you back, and there's a fear there.
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And until you figure out what that fear is, you're probably gonna be stuck in this
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little spot for forever in time- Mm-hmm
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which is terrible.
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So face it.
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What about you?
39:36
So with you being gone, you know, sometimes you have that little fear
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like, "Oh, what if something happens and we have to…" I think before you
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left, I said, "Okay, I'm gonna ask for forgiveness and not permission."
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Yeah, and I said, "Girl, get it." Yeah.
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That's why I love her.
39:49
We work so well together.
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But, you know, you have that moment of, "Okay, I can do this," you know?
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So I think what I would share, because I experienced it a little bit and I
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had some self-reflection about it, um, in the last week or so, is look at the
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evidence of what you have already done.
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Mm-hmm.
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I can answer questions.
40:09
Mm-hmm.
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I can help somebody.
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I can make a dec- a hard decision.
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Uh, I can… If push comes to shove, I'll do whatever.
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I, I don't know if it'll be right or wrong or otherwise.
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Yeah.
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But really looking at the evidence of what I've already accomplished.
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So I would say to a, an agent listening, if you're feeling that way, just pause,
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like you said, but really think about what you've already accomplished.
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Yeah.
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Because- You've done so much … you've already done so much, and the
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evidence, what do they call it?
40:37
The proof is in the pudding.
40:39
Mm-hmm.
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Right?
40:39
So.
40:40
Yeah.
40:41
Pam, this was a good one.
40:42
Yeah.
40:42
This was good.
40:42
I think they're all a good one.
40:43
So we will see you next time on Real Talk with REA agents.