Latest / The Re.invent / Stop Going Viral and Start Converting with Rachel Traxler

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Stop Going Viral and Start Converting with Rachel Traxler · The Re.invent

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Photographers, are you ready to stop simply participating in the industry and start shaping it?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Noella Andres, a retired wedding photographer, educator, and the behind-the-scenes strategist who has worked alongside some of the biggest educators, events, and brands in the photography world.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Every other week on reInvent, we sit down with the people shaping the future of the creative space.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: From speaking coaches, Facebook ad specialists, event hosts, and marketing experts to the voices behind the brands you already know and love.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're also going to hear from top educators, community builders, industry leaders, and a few solo Noella episodes along the way.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't just another podcast about photography or marketing trends.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's about learning how to position yourself as a leader, grow your authority, and create lasting impact through the ripple effect of sharing your voice.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because talent may get you noticed, but leadership is what's going to leave a legacy.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to ReInvent.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Rachel Traxler, a wedding photographer, turned photography business coach who helps photographers create strategic marketing and sales funnels that consistently lead to their highest packages.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: After more than 13 years in the industry and photographing over 200 weddings, Rachel took what she had learned about visibility, lead generation, conversion, and creating a connected client experience and turned it into an education business.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: She has now coached more than 100 photographers through her signature program and hosts That Photography Girl Podcast.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Rachel is known for making marketing feel clear, actionable, and far less overwhelming.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dare I say fun?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're talking about how she turned her experience into a repeatable methodology, built a signature offer, became known for a specific area of expertise, and created an education business that helps photographers fall in love with the business side of photography.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have Rachel on the podcast today.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Rachel.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, friend.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, I'm so great.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I uh just before this gave the formal introduction to you, but I like to do a fun thing where I want you to introduce yourself without talking about what you do for a living.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, who is Rachel that none of us know yet?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, fun.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So nothing business related.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing business.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my name is Rachel Troxler.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: I am from small town in Wisconsin.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, the population is 600 people where in the town that I live.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So very fun, small.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love it just for how much I'm traveling to just come home to just a very small little community.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I am a mother.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have two kids.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have a boy and a girl, three and five, Hazel and HUD.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um I absolutely adore them.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: They're my whole life.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: My daughter loves riding horses.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we have been, yeah, and Trent's mom.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Nana does like rides horses and all that stuff.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we do a lot of horse stuff, a lot of archery.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: My husband's a bow hunter.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so we as a family love to shoot archery.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Trent just got I know that uh Trent just got the two kids their first bow, like an actual bow, and they are like loving it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Hazel is an absolute natural.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hazel's a lefty, so she's just like, she is so dialed in.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, we love shooting archery together as a families.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: That is such the most random thing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad I asked this question.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: My husband had, or not my husband, my son has a bow and he has like a target in our backyard.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so the other day I was like, I'm gonna go out there, you know, like some mom-son bonding time.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and he was like, Mom, are you are you sure?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I pull it back and I literally freaking like bruised the whole like this girl.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, I'm not cut out for this.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know you have to like line it up really specific.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, yeah, I've hitten like my forearm before if you don't really have it lined up.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And thankfully, Trent, Trent's a big hunter, big archery guy.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: So he like really teaches, he's taught us, and so we really know.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I know it is, it's hard, it's tricky.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was sore.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, never again.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to find another bonding with some too.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's so fun.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what I so this podcast is all about education and educators, and I wanna take it because you're like the coolest educator in the industry, but you are though, but I want to take us back to before you started educating.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was life like?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, were you a full-time wedding photographer?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yep.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I went full-time photography in 2017.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I worked in I worked at Mayo Clinic in the Cancer Center.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I worked in the medical field, and then that just I yeah, and it means just for surprises today.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so the disease group that I worked with was um gyne.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I worked primarily with women with ovarian cancer.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, great job had I not been who I am in terms of I'm an Enneagram seven, I love to be creative, I'm spontaneous.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So to be put in just a small, tiny, like windowless room office with seven other people, literally following protocol, you know, working in you know, clinical trials and cancer research and all that stuff, you have to follow protocol.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just so not a rule follower.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm spontaneous.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just it just wasn't a good fit for me.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I went full-time photography.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, my husband was the one that was like, I never wanted to go full-time.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: My husband was the one that was like, just do it and see what happens.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I, being spontaneous, didn't have a plan B.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's why I made it work.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have a plan B.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like I had to figure this out.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Loved, yes, I photographed tons of weddings.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was in just in my peak, you know, of just so many weddings.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was younger, so I had a lot of people getting married around that same age, too.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: So business was really great.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been the type of person, I've been told this my whole life, I've just always been the person that like roots for the underdog, really seeks out someone I can see struggling, or just like helping the next person in line.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like an Enneagram 7 thing, though, because we okay 100%.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an Enneagram 7 too.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like known for like looking at scanning a room and finding how you can like bring more joy or how you can like just that makes so much sense.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's neat.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally, yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's always been something that that's like been passionate, it's come easy to me.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's just how my brain thinks.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I scan a room if I see someone being left out.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: If I see someone not getting it, I'm like, I just gravitate to that type, that person.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so naturally starting to sprinkle in education started to make sense.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: I very first started with just a singular digital product.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: My very first one was just uh a PDF guide of how to pose wedding parties.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was my very first education that I dabbled into, loved it, but it really helped me figure out how to even just product delivery and email sequences and you know, all of that stuff.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I got a little more comfortable.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then I it's when I created my first course, it was the client connection course.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: That was my bigger thing where I did like live webinar launches and live launches and tons of different my freebie to that was a quiz.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I had different results, different funnels for each result of the quiz, and that all funneled down in.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really cool to kind of get a grasp on that.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Once I realized I really, really did love this, I turned things into a coaching program.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that was like my big coaching program.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I when I launched my coaching program, it was a 12-week program.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then here I am five and a half years later, I just kept running it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was just talking to someone yesterday about you, about how I was like, it was a 12-week program and it just never ended.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So like, oh wow.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you when you first did that PDF, like I'm thinking about photographers who are just starting to kind of pivot into education.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: So they're just starting to dabble in like freebies or even like sprinkling that kind of content into their Instagram.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just picturing like Rachel back then.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Was there, did you get positive feedback, or was there, you know, people being like, oh my gosh, this is the most amazing thing?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was there something that kind of motivated you to keep going in that direction?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's such a good question, actually, because yes, feedback was good, but it took me so long to actually do it because I was scared.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is what photographers struggle with, especially because we then, once we start offering education, have two different clientels, like two different target audiences.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what held me back for so, so long.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Of okay, well, if I start doing education, will people start, you know, will they stop inquiring for me to photograph their wedding?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's still a game and a balance that I do now.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's but when you have two audiences, you have to be strategic with it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you have them both on one platform, right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I do.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: I never separated it.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: I never separated things.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: But once I kind of got over, somebody told me once, they and that's really helped me get over.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: They said, your clients and your potential clients are going to see you now when you start doing education.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're now gonna see you as an like an expertise in what you do.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, wow, she's so good.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Our photographer is so good that she's teaching other photographers too.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know why that didn't click in my head until someone said that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's so true.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Cause then I would show up to engagement sessions, or as I was talking with my couples in person, that would get brought up a lot.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that would actually get brought up a lot by the guys.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like the guys of my company, like the grooms, they really appreciated that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if that's just like a masculine business mindset.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure, but like they really actually appreciated that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I believe it that kind of was unexpected.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Here I thought, oh, I'm just dividing and turning people away.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes that happens too, and that's fine.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what I found that that, even especially that higher level of clientele in terms of like wedding clients, it's like the best social proof, right?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, and I think a lot, I mean, I hear about it a lot.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: People struggle with the same thought processes.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I was just telling someone about was there's also a way that you can sprinkle in education content in that's relevant for both.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, in one example would be, you know, you take a photo and it's beautiful sunset, and you're showcasing this cute couple and the lighting is beautiful and all that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And your caption can be as simple as like, oh my goodness, I love this couple posed in front of sunset because of, you know, and you can like still show the beautiful image, but also in your captions, kind of sprinkle it in.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's valuable for other photographers.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's that's so true.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the, yeah, like the social proof and it's like a case, you're like a perfect case study as like educating, but also providing thought leadership to clients.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now, clients are seeing you as a thought leader, like you said, an expert.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk a little bit because you are so I like to ask everybody, like as an educator, what is it that you want to be known for?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because as an educator, we see people kind of doing the jack of all trades thing, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like they might talk about posing one day and editing the next.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I think about you and when anybody talks to me about you, I immediately think of you as like the funnel girl, which you've kind of done a great job of branding yourself as the funnel girl, but unintentionally in a weird way, too.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like you call yourself the funnel girl because for sure.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: How did you like land on the funnel?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did that come to be?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's funny because when I very first started education, I thought about this and this also what set me back a lot of starting too of what do I want to be known for?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because the first thing I put out, I have to, that's what I'm gonna be known for, you know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And with my very first thing being my client connection course, it was very much so of I'm really good at connecting people and client experience, and client experience is literally everything in you do in your business.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's why it's an easy bucket to just do client experience because it is fun.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: It encompasses so many things, literally everything.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: You just it is client experience.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started with that, which I feel like that was a really good start for me because that is broad.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then the more I got into it, the more I tapped into it, the more I started helping photographers, the more I realized, oh, I like this.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love sales and conversion.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that has to do with funnels.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then I realized no one in the photography really it well, you know, back even just when I started really diving into funnels a couple years ago.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's like no one really fully understands what photographers what like funnels can be.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like a cool marketing term, you know, it's like, oh yeah, what is that?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And how can I apply it to my photography business?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like it really people's interest, you know, and and then so talking about like sales, like visibility, lead generation, sales, conversion, funnels like that is like my favorite thing to talk about.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I realized too, as I was helping photographers, those are the things that I change and help them with that make the biggest impact.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the photographers that come and say, like, Rachel, I just quadrupled my pricing.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just looked at my first five-figure wedding because of these things that you change.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I realized, okay, wow.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, not only do I like teaching about it, but when I tell them to, this, these are this is what happens.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of how I ran with that.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not to say that I won't change in the future and be like, oh, now I'm really into this because I also really want to.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And like, like you, I love email marketing and and all of that stuff.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's just so many, but I think my my jam is kind of comes down into the buckets of lead generation, sales, conversion, funnels, that type of thing.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I well, and I you I do think, I mean, I cannot think of anyone else that's teaching it in the way that you teach it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so I probably it's probably one of the most valuable things right now on the internet because I think so many people are teaching like how to go viral, how to go, you know, how to get more followers on Instagram, how to be more consistent on Instagram.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: But all of that is only valuable to you if you know how to convert them into sales.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like exactly people brag about going viral.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, great, but how many of those are actually emailing you?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you like you said, it's worthless if they're not on your email list and and all of that stuff too.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know, and that's that's the biggest thing for me is how to utilize that that visibility and that lead generation too, and not just focus on that.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I do get a lot of people to me saying, like, oh yeah, I'm not getting inquiries.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm just gonna run ads or I'm just gonna do this.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, I'm like, don't do that yet, because that's just gonna funnel, like you said, funnel people into a non-existing funnel.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when okay, so you have you started this program, it was a 12-week program and it's never ended.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a five-year-long program now.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's a 12-month coaching program, but but it's been I've been running it for five and a half years.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It how did you decide like what how what what did that look like?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You were running it for 12 weeks and you loved it so much that you were like, this is what I want to keep doing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I really admire that you kind of have one big program, whereas you we see a lot of other educators with multiple courses.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love having, I'm very like the you know, riches are in the niches or whatever.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when you have too many offers, and I'm such a big believer in this too, with photographer packages and and what you're offering too.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when I audit pricing guides, I'm like, you have too many package options, and then you have the a la carts, and then you have the add-ons and and all of this stuff, or similar to like when you're trying to sell albums.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, you can here's the three sizes you can get, and you can get linen or leather, and then here's the 20 colors of linen or leather you can get, and then here's extra spreads.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it just gets overwhelming, and then obviously overwhelm doesn't convert, confusion doesn't convert, and all of that stuff.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I am such a big believer of here's my coaching program.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, if you don't want this, I've got small low-ticket offers, but nothing in between.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't do, I don't do one-on-one coaching because it's like I literally do basically in my coaching program, it's like one-on-one coaching.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's very customized.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's there's no point of me offering that when that's exactly what my coach, like my regular program is.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just nice to be like, this is my offer, or here's my low tickets, and that's it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really all the time I have capacity-wise, too.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because I want to be able to like pour my time into the, you know, instead of sprinkling myself thin, yeah, just one offer.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is what it is.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you find so I I'm similar to you in that I'm like, I love I'm just passionate about business.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it, I mean, I do find it sometimes hard to figure out.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I love email marketing, but I could teach on anything.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's probably similar to you that yes, we have our niche, but we could teach on everything.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that like your program allows you to be able to do that?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have one offer, but at the same time, within your program, you can talk about whatever it is that your clients are struggling with.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, like my program is very structured, it's outlined.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's, you know, kind of a roadmap that it brings them to, but with the support in my coaching, like you can ask, you can ask questions on the call, you can ask them literally at any time in my coaching program.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I do like video audit audits back.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so if people have questions, they can ask anything, even if it's not something in the program.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what's nice too.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like complementary to here's the structure, here's the the outline and in the program that you can use, but you also just have access to me for the year.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's where you can ask outside of just like anything.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's why, like, I mean, that's why I love doing like coaching programs or masterminds because it's just like you're not just solving one problem, you're you can kind of solve multiple problems, and that fills us up as educators, but also just keeps everything super clear and concise to people who are like landing on your website, right?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you you and I have talked about this in the past.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: You use a quiz as one of your freebies, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a lead generator for you.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you land on quizzes?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was just I was gonna say this earlier.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad that you're bringing this back up for a freebie and a lead magnet.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: I love using quizzes.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think think about like back when this was really a thing too.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you were like on Pinterest or anything, it was like a personality quiz or something like that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: People are interested in like, ooh, what's my result gonna be, or what, what's my personality type?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: What's my wedding style?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's all of these?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like people want to figure theirs out.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so a quiz is really fun to take, and it's really fun to give customized results.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I said, um, I also just recently created another quiz, freebie, lead magnet too.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's four results to it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, then you can get really like micro specific on having four different, so if there's four different results, four different funnels that are customized that person and what they would need and resources they would need, little upsells that make sense within that one, but maybe not in this funnel, all leading directly to my large offer, my main large offer.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it's just it's really fun to utilize a quiz in that, in that way as a freebie lead magnet.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's a little bit more complex than just a PDF as your first freebie, but I really highly recommend maybe your second freebie to do a quiz.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's just such a good lead magnet.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's very intentional and all that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it probably also, I I mean, I can only imagine it reduces the amount of people unsubscribing from your email list as well because they're getting that very specific content that they, you know, you've segmented them out into that list once based on the results.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that there's tons of studies based on that.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's gotta be a lot less unsubscribes, and so they're actually getting the email and the content that you want them to get.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And just we both use the same program for quizzes, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Interact.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh I was like, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many if there are, but yeah, I use interact and I'm I love it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love it too.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's super user-friendly.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then we both also just gonna it's for a moment.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're also we both use Bidow as well.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Badao is one of my favorite little programs, and so for anyone listening, check those two out.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: You do not need to spend more time creating content, you need the content you have already created to work harder for you.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: With Flowdesk, you can turn one free resource into an automated funnel that grows your list, nurtures your audience, and leads potential clients or students towards the next step.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Once the workflow is built, Flowdesk continues delivering the right message without requiring you to be online every single day.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: It is simple to use, the emails are incredibly beautiful, and you do not need to be a tech expert to get started.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you are ready to spend less time chasing attention and more time building an audience you actually can reach and own, visit the link in the show notes to try Flowdesk today.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, wanna ask you about.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we have these quizzes that you built, they funnel into your big offer.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get your eye?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get people to see the quiz?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because you are you use Instagram in a very unique way.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: What does that what does that look like?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like how are you using Instagram to get them to even get to your freebies?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so Instagram is a really great way because it's free.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a free tool to get some visibility.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a few different ways that I like to approach.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I like funnels.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you haven't heard like this, that's the approach that I use too with Instagram.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's six, you can do six pinned posts, you can do six uh three pinned posts, three pinned reels.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: So six total.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: I really love to use those as different levels of like offering a high ticket, low ticket, freebie, add on, um, all that stuff.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: So those are a really good place to put your freebies as funnels.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people what they do is just they pin either their favorite wedding or a reel that did like perform to the highest for them.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I can care less how a reel performs.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not converting.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so my pins there are all are like, especially with my reels, they're all funnels.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: So they're, I use the many chat, comment the word, you know, guide to get or quiz to get this quiz.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it funnels them into my many chat and that leads them down, gives them the quiz and it leads them down the funnel.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Off they go.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really cool because then I can focus on that's just sitting there.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I am creating content, if I want to create visibility content, like you were saying, with the hopes and intent to have it be more visible, you know, not that I'm always trying to go viral.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's just more so like if you're trying to focus on visibility and getting more views that way, you can focus on that because then when they go to your profile, you know that's funneling them in that way.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Another way is having highlights.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is something I have to clean up myself.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: So don't look at mine as an example.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: But like your highlights are a really good place to like swipe them clean and just have like two to five, maybe.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say two to three stories or like uh per highlight that has um a call to action, an activation, and a hook.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'm sorry, I'm said that right backwards, a hook, activation, and a call to action.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then that call to action at the end is your funnel.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I think a lot of people, if they just say if in their highlights on their Instagram, if they just say like weddings, it's just like a bunch of behind the scenes videos from like a year or two ago.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like that's not really converting.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those don't need to stay there, those don't need to live there.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that's what a lot of people do.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: So instead, it could just say like weddings.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then the first page is there's maybe gonna be three slides.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: The first one is this is you know, your approach to weddings, nothing crazy, don't like over text it, but something that's like your tagline or your hook to make people be like, oh, okay, we like that kind of photographer.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Second one is maybe just like your availability.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm taking two more weddings for 2026.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next slide, that's like that activation to be like, oh, okay, um, just do something about it.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then that third one is a link to your contact form.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you're having that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: That would be good for like weddings.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing for under if you had a book highlight, like a book type of highlight, that could be the same thing where it's like three slides and it's just the how to book.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: So your funnel and that's gonna funnel to like your contact form.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing you could do with your freebie, yeah, and that type of thing.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: So those could live there.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Stories are well, I'll do stories last.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, your bio is a really good place.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: I see a lot of people like name your freebie and then say, get it here and then link it there.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think a lot of people just, you know, if you're really trying to when you're trying to push it, because a lot of people, obviously, photographers will say, like, book me or inquire here.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: But then when they click the link, it like brings you to another separate link and has all a bunch of different things.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the store clicks, or it'll just bring to your website homepage, and then they have to find the conversion thing.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So be very specific with like maybe your freebie in there, and then have just the freebie link, even if you just do that for a week or whatever.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: With your stories, I call this like a three-story series, and it's that same thing where it's the hook, the activation, and the call to action.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say run a three-story series once or twice a week to your freebie, to your contact plan.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do it as much as possible, as much as you can, because that's just one of those things where you do this freebie and you're like, oh, no one's doing it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, how often are you like, yeah, people don't know you have it?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how often are you putting it out there?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so you wanna kind of be active with those two.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I have my two.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because right after I talked to you last time, I went and quickly pinned all my freebies to the top of the I was like, I can't have this go live without doing this.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I gotta fix some stuff on mine too.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, do as I say, not as I do.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so funny though, the thing with freebies is that even when I talk to I talk to very established educators all the time, and they're all still really scared to talk about their freebies.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I noticed too that I have a little bit of a block around that because it feels still really salesy.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I love the way that you kind of approach your like all the funnels because it just feels like it's not the way that you do it, it feels very like you're giving something, you're not asking.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's a huge block for people.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't like talking about their freebies, even though they're helpful.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like a freebie is literally meant to be helpful.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: But the way you do it, it kind of runs passively too.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't feel like you're like download this, download this.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: And something that helps with that too is not feeling like the name of my freebie.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not just on this on my stories, just putting the name of my freebie.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm putting, I'm speaking to the problem it's solving and the problem they're like, I don't even say the title of the freebie.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know what I mean?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: What it is.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really just talking about, you know, do you have, do you find that your ghosting happens before or after your phone?
• 26:57
  unknown: Okay.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you talk about the transformation, not the product as like a as a sales tool kind of thing.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: But that's, I mean, that's so important, I think, for any educator that's just trying to start out is like figure out what it is, what's the transformation that you're trying to teach?
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because once you're clear on that, like all your language feels more serving instead of saying sell salesy.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I never am like salesy because I'm talking about maybe the other part of it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you never come across, definitely don't come across like salesy.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't ever feel it too much.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's so okay.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I also am curious about your podcast because this is a new podcast.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I hesitated starting one for so long.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like it's something that I've been talking about doing for like literally five years, but I was grind grinding my heels against it.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And part of it was that it felt well, one podcasts are huge commitments, yeah, yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: But also it did feel a little bit too, again, like salesy to me.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I know it is very interesting.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I recently kind of started shifting my mindset.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day, I'm I'm curious why you have a podcast, but at the end of the day, for me, this is a another top-of-funnel way of highlighting that I know what I'm doing, that I know what I'm talking about.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an authority driver.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, why do you have a podcast?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I started my podcast around the same time, literally, that I a couple months earlier than I started my coaching program.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: So and this fellow.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Why were you starting it then?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you start?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: What was postpartum with or like I had just had my first baby too?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was a crazy time now that I look back at it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: I literally had my baby, launched my podcast, launched my coaching program, like, and launched presets.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a crazy time.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: That is wild.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like you were saying, Noella, I've I've we've got a lot to say.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't all have to just be in like what you're known for in one topic.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's like kind of you do gravitate towards those things because you you genuinely like to talk about it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: You you're acknowledgeable about it, people are coming to you for it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I do find that typically I talk about relatively umbrellas of my of my podcast, but it's also one of those things, too, where people were asking questions or I saw this happening in the industry, and I'm like, oh, I kind of have an opinion on that, but I'm not like a very in your face opinionated person.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would, I would just kind of not give my opinion, but just give what I would think on it.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not like everyone's saying this, you need to do this.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's just like so noisy to me.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I just felt like I it was a good way for me to get my and I wanted to be an educator and I wanted to be known as someone that people could come to as, you know, as an educator.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was like a podcast is a great way to do that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a lot to say.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of why I have a podcast, and I love it too.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love, yeah, I love being able to do it because I feel like it's another place where I feel like you like this too.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to like sell on Instagram.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Instagram's a fun place for me.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't have to do all that there.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I can do, you know, I can, but I can do a little bit of that here, you know, in my podcast.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: If it at the very end, if I say, like, you know, if this resonated, like I do have co-op a coaching or whatever, or if I have anything like that, people expect that, I think, a little bit more.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: People like hearing that out of podcasts isn't as jolting as it is if you're just like 7 p.m.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: at night hanging out with your family, just scrolling, and you want to be entertained.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Don't want to be sold to.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I that's me.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be sold to on Instagram.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to know.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, Instagram's animal.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like an entertainment thing for sure.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, podcasts are also can be kind of entertainment.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Totally entering.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the cool thing, what I'm learning about podcasts, is that it gives us the opportunity for people to build trust with us in a way that, you know, Instagram does it, but it's a little different when you can see someone talking, you can see their mannerisms, you can hear their voice, you get familiar with their voice, even the topics.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: It to me, it feels very similar to how you're running your coaching program in the sense of like, we can kind of talk about whatever we want here.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like there's an overarching theme, and we have like we have a goal in mind, but it's just kind of an open forum to to chat about whatever you want and share all the knowledge because I think people like you and I have so much to share, but it's like hard to be able to contain it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's so much easier talking.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: I have no problem talking camera on the podcast, but if I'm like trying to film stuff like a talking thing for Instagram, I'm like I get all weird.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is it made it so much worse with this yap challenge because now I'm like, oh my goodness, now do I have to?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like, is there rules?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I don't know.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Are people gonna know I'm part of this yap challenge?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: You've never heard of a yap challenge going around?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, Rachel.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's this, it's actually incredible.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I would love to have this woman on my podcast.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So my Jesse, I need to look it up.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: You definitely, I mean, literally, if you look up the hashtag, it's like JJ Yap Challenge.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this incredible entrepreneur who literally launched this gap challenge.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know exactly how it works, I'm not part of it, but she charges this flat amount and you get prompts.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you're basically told to like get onto Instagram every single day and she'll help with prompts, and you just gap.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea is that you get more comfortable talking on camera.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's so funny for me because now I open up Instagram and everyone's talking to the camera.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, she's part of the challenge, she's with the challenge.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: But this woman made like millions of dollars in like 72 hours on this one challenge.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like mind-blowing that she found this niche clearly a problem for everyone.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: We none of us like talking on camera on Instagram, but yeah, like I don't mind talking on the podcast at all.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's so different.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it is fun.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I like about having a podcast too.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah, it's so much fun.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, one question about the podcast.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you decide who you're interviewing on your podcast?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I'm asking that is because in my mastermind, a lot of my students want to get a more podcast.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm encouraging them to do it because it's a way that they can start, you know, building their authority up as an educator.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so if someone emails you, how are you are you like trash or respond?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you decide?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then I mean that's a little harsh.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, it kind of also just for me.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, everyone would have a different answer to this, but for me specifically, it just depends on like what that season looks like for me.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's seasons where I'm like, because ideally, I would love for my podcast to be like have more solo episodes than guests, but there's certain seasons where I'm like, ooh, I just don't have the capacity to like be recording and coming up with all these solo episodes.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to have some guests on.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: And also just like, we have so many connections and friends in the industry who are amazing that I'm like, I would love if you would come on the platform.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I think one thing, even if I have as I've had friends and other educators on the podcast, I'm like, my one thing is that I want to make sure you're talking about something that like we haven't talked on, or if it's something that I've talked on, that you have a different opinion than me.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I want, I want it to be, I don't want it to be regurgitated of like, yeah, they listen to me every and like you know, it's what I think too.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to have someone that would tea has a different opinion or teaches on something that I can't fully provide.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So do you find because going back to this whole like what it is that you want to be known for?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm finding is, you know, as soon as I started talking about this podcast, I've had a lot of people apply to be guests.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if it is not very clear to me what it is that you are an authority in, and I have to try and dig to figure out what topics we could talk about.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that that's often the case?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is like people just apply to be on your podcast and you're like, well, what do you want to talk about?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you know?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: What are you good at?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I would say that sometimes when people apply, it's like I have no idea who they are.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're not in the industry.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like, I want my podcast, I want to be very specific for photographers.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've tried going more general, and I'm like, I just know that my niche is good for photographers.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna stay hyper fixated and focused on this.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I it is nice when they come with like three topics that they're good at.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, like you said, I don't have to dig, I don't have to wonder.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: And not generic.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't just say workflows and client experience and communication.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I'm like, well, like I, you know, I not saying that, but I'm like, I could I have like episodes on that too.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what's different?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I want you to come and be like, hey, I know that not that you have to listen, but this is how I do things.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or like I said, I want something, someone with a different perspective or a different opinion than me, because I like to have that variety.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes sense.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I I agree with you.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so much easier when they come like like when they come with topics or ideas, because how how do you know if you want them on or not if they don't like maybe you just recorded that episode on workflow and now all of a sudden they're saying workflow.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: At least now you can say, well, hey, I just did this, but maybe you know, in a couple months.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I always like I I have a podcast pitch template that I made because even just since I announced this, I was like, Oh, too much going on.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know what would be really that's would be really nice too.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I if if someone is coming wanting to be on the podcast, if they can provide their email list size and maybe like their open rate and like that they would offer to promote that on their email list.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's so devastating when you do an episode, right?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then the guest doesn't share about it, and you're like, Well, were you even excited to be on my podcast?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like some type of mutual benefit, like beneficial benefit of cross-promoting.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cross-promoting.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: 100% agree.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: So for I know I'm I'm already, I know we're in a bit of a hurry here, but for any of the photographers out there that are thinking about pivoting and starting to dive their toes a little bit into education, just do you have like even generic pieces of advice is for a brand new educator, photographer who's like, hmm, I'm thinking about this.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Any pieces of advice or like flags that they should look out for?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I guess to answer more so on your first question, what something that I did too.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: When I created my very first guide, my wedding party posing guide, that was back in a time where like posing guides and posing courses were huge.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of those things where it's like everyone is doing a posing course and everyone's doing that.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I really looked at like, okay, the demand is there, people want an opposing, but I'm not how can I do it something different?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I'm like wedding party posing.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where everyone's like, whoa, we've never seen any.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And like while it was really hot, posing was really, really hot.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Still is, but it really back then.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, never saw one for wedding parties that I never saw anyone else.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've never even and so I really thought, try to think outside of the box what's hot and in demand, but something different.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I would highly suggest that everyone wanting to pivot to education would think the same.
• 38:04
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you're doing a course, um, a freebie, a digital product program, anything like that, don't look and just do what everyone else is doing.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like even when I created my coaching program five and a half years ago, and now I feel like I'm not saying that everyone like people saw mine or do the same because like whatever.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: But now I feel like I look at things like, oh, it's set up so similar to the way I have mine five and a half years ago, and found certain but found certain things that make mine super unique, and I still stick to those and I do those.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so find something that's different, not just like what everyone else is doing.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's kind of cliche, but I mean, I'm for even that so much.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's true, and I think that even like you were saying, like with posing, there's nothing wrong with teaching posing, but you can come up with that little unique spin.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with education too, I mean, I'm seeing right now like a huge trend of memberships, you know, low ticket, yep, 30, 30 to 60 a month memberships.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I love them because I think it's it's it does similar to like what the podcaster coaching program does for me.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: It allows you to kind of drop in content whenever you want or whenever you're inspired as an educator, you can put content in there.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's like, how do you think of how do you take a membership and put a unique spin on it?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's tough because it, I mean, but as creatives, it's yeah, and it's one of those things I have wanted to also add a lower ticket membership for a couple years now.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's but it's one of those things where it's like, you shiny object syndrome, like you and I both in your M7.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're like boom, boom, boom.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I had to really think, and I'm not saying that I won't ever do it, but I also have to think, would that then take away from my higher ticket?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, can I just focus on the one?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like then that would anyone want to do that if I have this, and so it's like you just have to be like kind of stay, I don't know.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: I this is just my advice because this is what I've done, it's worked for me is just pick something, stick with it, and just try that for a while instead of adding on all these different things because then it's just gonna be it's gonna be overwhelming too.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: The marketing, the funnels, all that.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you just have one or two solid things, I know, yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think you and Ben Hartley do such an amazing job.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm I mean, I'm obsessed, and I you it's funny because I use you guys all the time as examples of yeah, I love that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love being compared to him.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's amazing.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you guys do.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: You both have like one program that you're kind of known for that, like if people want to learn from you, they know exactly what the route is.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's super clear, it's super concise.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then at the same time, you can kind of like play within your program and and talk about whatever it is you're inspired by this week and and help help people in numerous ways.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, I'm like obsessed over that model and I try and teach it as much as possible.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always curious, though, like like you were saying, how you want to maybe add or thinking about or wondering if you should add a low ticket membership.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I almost wonder if people like you and I, it'll just end up being too big ticket program.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like we just will end up putting so much into this low ticket that now we're like, well, dang, now we have these like yeah, two very helpful programs.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what I did instead is I just start I moved my free education group into school, which is the same program that I host my coaching program into.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm like, I a lot of my energy has just gone into like the free education group.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of like it's kind of like a low ticket offer in the sense of like generally speaking, a low ticket offer it's per the purpose of them is to get people to build trust around you, right?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's like you know, a freebie is is great and a lot of people will consume it, but the real thing that people are like decide to buy from you is the low ticket.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of doing the same thing.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're it's building the trust up, and they're like, oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with her and I want to learn and I'm gonna pay.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love my model how I have it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love your model, and I literally use it all the time when I'm teaching people.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's so sweet.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, I'm I asked you so many questions.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was like rapid fire interview.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I just you're just such a like you're just killed it as an educator, and you've been doing it for so long, and I'm just so inspired by you.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and I just love when you how you show up for the community.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're just like such a big heart of gold, and you serve people like crazy, and you sell in such an authentic way that it doesn't feel like selling.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, for all you potential educators out there that are watching, follow Rachel and just get as inspired by her as I am.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Rachel.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my goodness, I try.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sweet and healthy, but we need a little bit of both of that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: We totally do.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: We do, we do.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am going to, yeah, no problem.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like so excited that you said yes.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna include all of Rachel's information in the show notes, and uh, I yeah, highly suggest that you guys track her down and pay close attention to the way she manages her Instagram because it is it's like an entire education platform on its own.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Rachel.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right, bye guys.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening to the reInvent podcast.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I hope today left you really inspired and that you walked away with something that you could put into action in your business today.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: If this episode resonated with you and you would like to help the podcast reach even more creatives, hit follow, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave us a review.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Those reviews really help other listeners find us when they need it the most.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: So for show notes, links, different resources, head over to my website.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's noelaandres.com.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: That is n O E L L A A N D R E S dot com.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, guys.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: See you the next time.