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Why So Many “Confident” Guys Are Secretly Insecure · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:05
  Speaker A: Welcome to Gaming Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host today. My name is Michael DiIorio and joining me are Matt Lansdel and Reno Johnston. Today we are talking about why so many confident gay men are secretly insecure. This is a bit of an expose, but what we want you to get out of this episode is a deeper understanding of confidence so that you can tell the difference between confidence that is performed externally versus confidence that comes from within yourself. Reminder that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy the content we're creating, you can support the community and the show by making a donation to the show using the link in the notes. You could also tap that thanks button on YouTube to show the podcast some love. Okay, let's talk about confidence for gay men. Specifically. When you think of a confident gay man, our minds tend to conjure up an image automatically. Someone attractive, who has lots of friends, who's outgoing and active. Someone who succeeds at everything and never strikes out. And the thing is, social media is full of guys who present this way, so it's very easy to to believe it. But in reality, what I see time and time again is a lot of the guys who look the most confident are actually, under the surface, very insecure. Not because they're bad, not because they're broken, not because anything's wrong with them, but just because. The version of confidence that gay men are taught is performative and it's built on a very shaky foundation. And this could apply to straight men as well. But I'm focusing on the gay aspect, of course. And it's no secret that our culture rewards good looks, popularity, being assertive, traditional masculinity. We've talked about that many times on this podcast. So it's easy to end up chasing those things in an attempt to fit in, be liked. And that behind the scenes narrative, whether you recognize that it's there or not, is the more impressive I am, the more liked I'll be, the better I'll feel about myself. That's kind of how that works. Now, the problem, of course, is that when your confidence depends on being seen, being chosen, being admired, it's never settled. It has to be maintained constantly. And it is fully dependent on other people who, as we all know, are not very reliable. Which is why so many confident guys are ultra sensitive to judgment or criticism. Any hint of rejection and they will get they get very upset about that. And then, even though that exterior mask may be calm and cool and composed, inside is a cocktail of desperation, insecurity, and anxiety. Now, I'm not saying this from the outside. I'm saying this as someone who has misunderstood confidence for a very, very long time. Because for most of my life, I didn't see myself as confident at all. At all. I was quiet, introvert. I was never good at anything that boys should be good at. I didn't play any sports. I wasn't athletic. I kind of just disappeared into the background of a room. I was never charming or funny, Nothing. None of those things. So I assumed confidence was for those kinds of people that were all those things, but not me. I'm just over here. And those. Those boys over there are confident because I have those things. But over time, thanks to doing a lot of inner work, I realized something. That confidence, it's not what I thought it was. It wasn't necessarily loud. It was actually quiet, grounded. It doesn't need witnesses or applause. And it shows up mostly in how you handle discomfort, how you make decisions, and how you respond to life when shit gets tough. Now, once I saw that, that's when I was able to be like, oh, okay, it's not something that I. It's not a personality trait. It's something that I build within myself. And then I started to notice a very clear difference when I looked around at the men around me. And that difference was looking confident versus being confident. And so today, that's what we're exploring. That's what I wanted to talk about in this episode today. Not to judge anyone, but really just to expose the myths of self confidence that gay men inherit and why chasing the wrong version actually keeps us feeling insecure underneath. So that's what we're doing here today. So let's get started. The first question I have is let's put an expose on what are those traits that get mistaken for confidence in gay culture? And, Rena, let's start with you.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Cool. The first thing I want to say to tee up my. My list, I guess, is to acknowledge that. And you named it already. We grew up in some of us, and many of us grew up in an unfavorable set of circumstances, right? Like, we know what it's like to be born into the world, to not feel accepted, to not feel like you belong, to not feel like it's safe to be yourself. And what. What. What I think most of us understand is that when you have to navigate those circumstances, you find ways to cope. And you find ways to compensate for what is lacking, right? The love that is lacking, the support that is lacking, the stability, the safety, the security, et cetera. And so I want to, I want to name that right off the hop because all of that tends to contribute to performative or compensatory behavior or coping behavior. And so it's funny because I'll, I'll get to the gay bit in just a moment, but if we look at, you know, many of the people in, or a number of the people in positions of power right now, right, there's like a lot going on in the world. And if we look at some of the people in positions of power who maybe seem to appear confident, right, And I'm not even saying that they necessarily are completely void of it, but there's a lot of bravado. There's a lot of bravado, there's a lot of control, there's a lot of performance, there's a lot of manipulation. And these three things alone, I think are examples of things that are mistaken for confidence but are not actually confidence, right? They're compensatory. Now that's not to say that someone who is loud or who has a big presence or who is comfortable in space and taking up space is someone who is performing necessarily, or let's say lacking confidence in compensating. You yourself will often know and we can kind of intuit it as well, you know, when someone's really like in their shine versus when they're performing or overcompensating, right? So on my list I have unkindness, I have nonchalance, and again, these are all nuanced in some way. Some of them are nuanced, some of them are nuanced. Unkindness, nonchalance, exclusion, control, avoidance. Then we have, you know, the esthetic bits like having muscles or being thin or you know, anything really aesthetic in some ways, like you mentioned earlier, Michael, assertiveness, performance, then there's achievements, success, money, material knowledge, the number of friends and followers you have, right? So these are all things that can be mistaken for confidence and used to compensate for the notion of one's inadequacy, Right? And my observation has been that in many cases, the more someone leads with all of that, it's almost like the, the more someone leads with that and the more more of a sort of facade or veneer there is, the lower their self esteem and self confidence tends to be. Yeah, I think, and I guess the thing I would say is it's not. It's not your fault, but it is your responsibility. You know, and I've been saying that a lot recently because it just rings so true in my own experience. Like, I come from a certain set of circumstances just like everybody else. It's not my fault that, you know, life kind of did a number on me early on, and then, you know, and then I had to work through that. But it is my responsibility to now do the work, to become a person who is, let's say, intrinsically confident, you know, a person who contributes and adds to the world versus, you know, extracts from it and is destructive, if you will. Right.
• 9:01
  Speaker A: So, yeah, Reno. Of the ones that you listed, you listed so many great ones in there. I'm curious, which ones have you personally, like, bought into at some point in your life?
• 9:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, gosh, thinness, muscles, knowledge, aesthetic. To be honest, all of them. All of them? Yeah. Like, I would say the entire list. Yeah. That whole list. I could go down the whole list, and at any given point in my life, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:31
  Speaker A: It's amazing that so many people, you know, would say the same. And. And that's why I'm really, really happy we're doing this episode. And I hope all the gay men out there share it with all your gay friends, because we are sold this idea, and it's not our fault, as you said, but it's so much more powerful when we can kind of, like, see the myth for what it is. Yeah.
• 9:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I. I guess one more thing I'll say, too, is, like, it's a beautiful thing, and, like, maybe we'll get into it more as the conversation unfolds. But it was such a beautiful thing for me to begin to see that every time I went chasing it in any one of those directions, it failed me at some point. And then I had to. I was. I was returned inward. And so it was like, all roads lead back to me, you know, and all roads lead inward. And so that's where that work needs to happen. And it's great because then slowly but surely, my power, my freedom, my quality of life, let's say, or quality of being. I think I would even say more than that. It's not outsourced, you know, it's. It's inwardly sourced and outwardly expressed.
• 10:36
  Speaker A: Beautifully said. Amen.
• 10:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:39
  Speaker A: All right, Maddie. And what. What traits have been or do you think get mistaken for confidence in. Get culture. Let's expose the myth.
• 10:47
  Speaker C: Expose the myth. Well, I've fallen for all these traps, too. It's hard not to because when we grow up and we're these young gay boys and we have insecurity around being authentic and we have to perform, right? So we're performing being straight or we're performing being confident or. So I think this, you know, if you think about life and how we are, we're all just little actors and actresses on this stage of life. And, you know, we go into certain social contexts and we have to perform. We have to pretend. We have to, right, pretend that we like our, you know, our friends singing when we don't, like, we're all just kind of being fake and like, and performing to a certain extent, right. Can we move closer to authenticity and true confidence? 100%. But I do think there's an element of. That's just how human beings are. We have make it kind of thing. But I would say any traits that require us to perform and do what we're doing because people are watching us or there's an audience. So, you know, being loud is definitely one of them, that person. And we all know that person in every friend group that's like, so boisterous and loud and they just need to make the scene and they need everybody kind of having eyes on them. Like, I think that for me is like, you know, probably they weren't heard when they were a kid. They felt overlooked as a kid, right? So there's insecurity in. In that. But it shows up and presents as, like, social dominance or like, alpha energy or whatever it might be. And people might be like, wow, like, you can get up and speak in front of everybody and you can be the center of attention. You're so confident. But, you know, is that. Is it. Is it altruistic or is it. Is it true to them, like, to actually be like that? Right? And then I think anything in our culture is just so inundated with. With obsession over aesthetics. So anything that's going to, you know, having the nicest things, materialism, you know, gay men love to have all the nice things and show it off. And again, it's. It's like Reno said, the perfect word is compensatory, right? It's like we're compensating for inadequacy. A lot of us because we grew up feeling inadequate and. And then the one that I fell hard for, which was the perfect body thing, right? And becoming the fitness guy and having the muscles and all that sort of crap. And it's just like, you know, internally, like, just feeling like having no worth, no self worth. Your worth comes from your muscles. Your worth comes from how many people are liking your pictures or staring at you at the gym or whatever. Like, there's just an element of. Of an over reliance on external validation, I think. And so that definitely would be. Would be one. Masculinity, I think a lot of. A lot of gay men, you know, because even when I think about it, when I think about confidence, I. There's a. There's a. A flavor of masculinity that comes to mind when I think about being confident, right. It's always the man that I think about in my mind, and that might just be my own conditioning. And, you know, you think about confident women like they're oftentimes looked at as like. Or like, you know, these sorts of things. Like, there's something to do with that. So I think masculinity, I do. I really do think that a lot of gay men hide behind their insecurity behind masculinity, especially their insecurity around being gay or being feminine and having sensitivity or these sorts of things. And then another one that I think is really big is. Would be just being emotionally detached, right? Like, you know, you see, you know, when it comes to dating or attachment, right, you look at the avoidantly attached guy and you'd think, wow, he's so confident, he's so independent. He doesn't need anybody, right? Like, there's an element of that, but it's like, really, at the end of the day, there's like, this person is terrified, and they're so insecure about attaching and being seen. So I do think emotional detachment is. Is something that a lot of men use. And, you know, an easy. Maybe an easy term to sum that up would be like, stoicism, right? Like being stoic. And then another one that I put down here was like, just needing tons of friends, I think. And that doesn't necessarily. It doesn't have to be. But I do think that there's a confidence in, you know, like, being. Being by yourself sometimes, too, and not always needing to be with. With people and needing to be like a socialite. Like, what if you were to go to dinner by yourself or go see a movie by yourself or spe by yourself, so people that can spend time on their own and be comfortable and confident in doing that. I think there's something to be said about that too.
• 15:06
  Speaker A: Totally. And it's important. I think Reno touched on this earlier, but I think it's important to say this again as a caveat, that just because we're saying these traits right now does not mean that the presence of them means that there's a for sure absence of self confidence. Some people can have all these things and actually truly be self confident. But I just want you guys to know that it's not the same thing.
• 15:27
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like the balance of internal, external validation. Right. Like, to be internally validated, I think is confidence. And to be externally validated can contribute to our confidence. But I. I think it's to have one that we're reliant on being external, it's going to create an imbalance in us and it's going to be really hard to be intrinsically validated when we're getting it all from outsourcing. Right?
• 15:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. And that's where it becomes shaky. Like I said earlier, you're trying to hold this house of cards together, hoping that no one says anything or does anything or no one withdraws their attention from you, because if they do, the whole house of cards comes falling down.
• 16:06
  Speaker B: On that note too, I'll just say I really think that collectively we are navigating a codependent epidemic because I think in many ways what we're pointing to here and this notion of sort of a confidence that is dependent on the external really speaks to codependence, as I understand it. And again, it's. It's not to say that. It's not to say, don't welcome external love praise, you know, it's to say, hold it lightly, you know, and make your focus inside out, you know? Yeah, yeah.
• 16:48
  Speaker C: Where I have a question for you guys. Where do you think this develops as. As children? We're talking about it in the gay context of like, adults. But you think about confidence like, you know, I wasn't a very confident kid. I was like, super sensitive. I was like, scared of a lot of things because I was feeling a lot. And like, I felt like I didn't have the support that I needed parentally to help me develop that confidence or that security within myself. Right. So where does it come from when you think about, like, confident children? Why are some children more confident than others?
• 17:18
  Speaker B: I think that what I saw. So I'll speak to my own experience and I'll say that honestly, it's. It's a bit tricky because I feel like I was kind of born audacious, which is interesting. But. But what I will say is. What I will say is like, I was still. There was still something sort of timid and sensitive and reserved about me. But what I attribute to that is That I was loved, you know, like, despite any of the craziness that went on around me, I was loved, I was supported and I was encouraged. And I also think in this might maybe confuse some people, but like, in this strange way, a lot of the hits that I took, like, just things that I persevered through, like, very early on and, and I think the instability of my environment actually contributed to my confidence in some way. You know, it was like there was sort of this like anti fragility, to use that term, that I was maybe operating in. It's not, it's not even something I think I was conscious of it. Looking back, I can see, like all of these experiences I had that like rocked me because they didn't completely destroy me. They strengthen me, you know. And so over time I was like, I can handle you, I can handle this. I know how to be in this environment. I know how to deal with this, you know, and even if I don't know what I'm up against, I learned through experience that like, I'm solid in here. Like solid enough to deal with what's happening out here, even when it's doing this, you know, shaky and. Yeah. Uncertain. Yeah.
• 19:03
  Speaker C: It's interesting. Your mom is, is kind of what you described. Like, she's confident. I have a feeling she also modeled that.
• 19:11
  Speaker A: Right.
• 19:11
  Speaker C: Like, and you were able.
• 19:12
  Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah, that's so true. Thanks for naming that piece too, I guess. Yeah. Because I've said this before, I'm glad you pointed that out. The women around me in particular, like, they were strong, you know, they were, they, they were, they were occasionally lacking in self esteem. But honestly, I also think that they held themselves, themselves very well and, and they were. There was a level of confidence and, and, and sort of inner strength and fortitude in them. So. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.
• 19:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 19:42
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:42
  Speaker A: So I was not born audacious.
• 19:44
  Speaker B: The very opposite shocks me because you're so, like, you're so fierce.
• 19:48
  Speaker A: But I think the part where I understand and totally agree is, is that antifragility or that resilience came from. But for me, it came much, much later. Like, I wish I could go back to grade school, high school, even university with the confidence I have now. Oh my gosh, it'd be very different, Very different situation. But to answer, I think, Matt, your question, I think a lot of it he had asked about, like in childhood, right? Yeah. Well, I think part of it's socialization. So like, what were we taught by our family, peers, media that confidence was that like the Definition has to come from somewhere. We're not born with the definition of confidence. We have to get. Get socialized within us. And then the other piece is kind of what Reno talked about, which is like those early caregivers, if you had parents that just reminded you that you were loved and you are beautiful and wonderful no matter what, you probably will have a bit more of an instilled sense of inner self worth. So, like, let's say you fail a test or you do something bad at school and you get in trouble. Like, were you shamed and were you. Were you punished, like, punitively? Or was it a punishment with love and kindness and understanding? I think that has a lot to do with it.
• 20:58
  Speaker B: And my mom did that really well. I remember because I'm just such a dynamic character. The classroom could not contain me. And so anytime I was kicked out, I remember I would end up on a call at the office with my mom, and she was never mad at me. Like, she would just talk to me. We would just have a conversation. And she was. Because she knew I wasn't bad, so she never shamed me, like, for anything. You know, I remember when I got caught, like, messing around with another boy when I was young. My dad lost it. My mom was like, leave him alone. You know, like, cares. Right? Like, this is how you handle things. So I think it does. It really does make a difference. It really does make a difference, receiving that love. Yeah.
• 21:51
  Speaker A: Listen, you guys nailed all of the things that. That I think should be covered under this question. What traits get mistaken for confidence in gay culture? There's one thing I want to add, though, and that is social media. The impact of social media. I think there is a myth out there that your confidence is tied to your Instagram account.
• 22:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker A: Specifically Instagram. I'm coming for you, Instagram. But all social media in general. And, you know, you. You look at someone and you see they have, like, hundreds of thousands of followers or tens of thousands of followers or whatever it is, and you automatically make some kind of assumption about this person's character, about their confidence, about their popularity, about their desirability. Right? And it's just a number. It's just a number on a screen, and it has nothing, truly, truly nothing to do with someone's confidence level. Okay, so that's not just followers, but likes. Right. So I think Instagram now hides the number of likes, which I think is probably a good idea. But again, you see that just like, oh, my gosh, you know, like 10,000 people liked this photo. And that Equates to being seen, noticed, followed, desired. And again, it's a very slippery slope. It's like, oh, likes equals desire equals confident. But that's where we have to like interrupt the pattern. You got to stop that and say likes or likes. It's a number on a screen. Doesn't really have anything to do with desirability or especially confidence.
• 23:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:11
  Speaker B: And because you brought it up, and I was going to wait till later to mention it, but I think the way society and media in particular is curated has such an impact on how we define and quantify and qualify confidence. Because what we see across media constantly are that the, the people who are the most rewarded, desired, visible, etc. Tend to be the, the people who are engaged in this compensatory behavior. Right? So like they have all the designer clothes, they're the skinniest or the fittest, or the most conventionally attractive, or they have the most bravado, et cetera, et cetera. So if you're a young, and not even young, if your mind has not developed the capacity to discern what you're seeing yet, and that's regardless of age, because I know adults, myself included, right. Who swim in these waters and are susceptible to it. If you haven't developed the capacity to discern, you see that and you go, oh, okay, so I have to be all of this in order to get all of that. And if I get all of that, then I'll be loved, then I'll be enough, then I'll have enough, then I'll be worthy, then I'll be safe, then I'll be confident, et cetera, et cetera. And it's like, well, we know how that story goes, you know.
• 24:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, I was just going to say, I know, I know a lot of guys who, who have fallen for that. And yeah, at the end of it I'm like, so now you're, you have lots of followers, you're hot, you're rich, you're successful, and guess what, you're still miserable.
• 24:55
  Speaker C: Then everyone else holds the key to your confidence.
• 24:58
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 24:59
  Speaker C: Right. If they're giving you what you, what you need to feel confident, you'll be confident. They take that away. You're not confident. That's the, that's the double edged sword with external validation. It's, it's not sustaining. It's beautiful.
• 25:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 25:15
  Speaker A: All right, let's hear from our audience. We've been talking a lot here. So how do you distinguish between looking confident versus being confident? We want to hear from you if you, if you're watching us on YouTube. Go ahead and type that in the comments. How do you distinguish between looking confident and being confident? And if you enjoy the conversation we are having here today, we want to invite you to come to one of our connection circles. Every month, we host two connection circles where we facilitate small, intimate conversations about different topics that we discuss here on the podcast and that are relevant and important to us. But in a connection circle, you don't hear from us. You hear from each other. We put you in little breakout rooms of three to four people, and you guys go into the pod and discuss the topic that we have there today. So go to www.gaymansbrotherhood.com and check out our events section to see what we got coming up for you. And make sure you rsvp. Or you can make sure you get on our email list, and we will email you all the details and the zoom links. Okay, guys, question two. Let's flip it a bit. Let's look at the contrast here. What does real confidence look like in real life?
• 26:20
  Speaker B: When we go on this morning, I want to acknowledge you, Matt, in. In response to this question, because when. When we got on this morning and I looked at you like, you're. You're dressed down, you're just kind of in your space, right? And. And you're here. And something I've seen you do repeatedly is come as you are, you know, And I see you do that a lot in this space and on this podcast. It actually brings up some tenderness for me when I say this, because it's something that I really admire and appreciate. And I think that that, to me, is genuine confidence, you know, like, if I could summarize. If I could summarize what real confidence looks like, I would summarize it in that phrase, which is like, come as you are, you know, free of give, you know, free of compensating, free of performance, you know, etc. Etc. And also, listen, if. If that's your jam, like, the compensating, the performing, the stuff, like you can. If you name it and you own it and you claim it like that, that is also a form of confidence, right? So, you know, like, for some people, all the makeup and the glitz and the glam and the do to do to do, it's like, fun for them, right? And we feel that. And if you own it and you name it, like, that's different than using it to sort of mask. And I think we can all sort of sense when we're masking or masquerading and so, yeah, coming back to what I just said, I think, like you and sometimes all of us, actually, when we're on. When we're on, on cam and on Mike, will. Will, you know, at any given point show up and kind of be like, oh, you know, but we. But we still bring it. You know, we still bring it. We're here. We share ourselves. So I think. I think that's, you know, that's one example. And then. Well, honestly, maybe I'll have more to say to this question, but think. I think that's like it for now. Come as you are. Yeah, maybe one more thing I'll say too, is an honest person is a confident person. That's what I would say. An honest person is a confident person. There's humility in honesty, and I do think that humility is a reflection of authentic confidence, you know, genuine confidence. Sincere confidence. A confidence that is not solely outwardly sourced, you know, that is not based on what you have or who you know or how you look, but really who you are. Yeah.
• 29:10
  Speaker A: I put my money on you having more to share right now. Yeah. But for now, let's hear from Matt.
• 29:16
  Speaker B: So.
• 29:16
  Speaker A: So, Matt, same question for you. What does real confidence look like in real life?
• 29:21
  Speaker C: I want to comment on what Reno said. I just want to say. Say thank you for your reflection. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not going to say I don't care, but over the course of the last few years, I've just really been kind of beaten down, like, in a way, like. Like spiritually kind of beaten down. And I stopped caring about the things that. That I used to care a lot about.
• 29:42
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:43
  Speaker C: My appearance was one of them. I'd be very concerned about my appearance, what I wore, these sorts of things. And I feel like I've just. I've let go of that. And I'm not going to say I let go of it like. Like I don't care, because I do. I still want to look good. I think look good does lead to feel good. It's important. But, yeah, something's just shifted. So thanks for recognizing that. Yeah. And I like that. I like that. Come as you are. That's really something I've been learning to. To be. Just be fully congruent. Like who I am when this camera's off will be who I am when the camera's on. And I think it's something that I really try to. To emulate. So thank you. In real life, I just think the first word that came to mind when I was thinking about this is presence. Like, presence over performance. Like, being in the moment. Somebody who can stay in the moment and is not at the party looking around to see who's looking at them. Like, they're just in the moment and they're just having fun and they're, you know, like, that's kind of, for me, would be. Would be confidence. And it's. It's not something that I don't think I can see as much as I can feel. I can feel authentic confidence in somebody, in the energy that they embody and the way that they look at me, how I feel when I feel seen by them or something. It's just. There's just something about it. It's a presence for me. And I would say that confident people aren't afraid to take up space. And by take up space, I don't mean take up the whole room. Like, take up your part of the room and just own that part of the room, wherever you are. So there's an aura of like, I'm not afraid to take up the space that I know I deserve. They're not. They don't apologize for taking up space. They don't apologize for being, you know, audacious or being themselves. I think it. There's an ownership of themselves and their energy. But I do think it's quieter than. Than what most people think. Like, true confidence is quieter. And it's. It leads itself with, like, humility more than people think as well. And not performing. Performing humility. Performing humility is like. Would be in the camp of the, like, question one. You know what I mean? Where people are like, oh, yeah, no, like. And then they. They kind of downplay, but it's like there's, you know, I don't know. So there's a feeling that I get when people are performing humility. And then I would say environmental awareness would be. Would be something too. Like, when somebody's confident, they're also. They're not just here, they're like, they're there too. They're outside. And they're able to, like, see how they're impacting other people, and they. They act accordingly. Like, so when I think about, like, confidence, I think about leadership, right? Like somebody who, like, they're. They're a natural born leader, but they also want to take the room into consideration for, you know, how to proceed in their leadership. So I think that. And that requires a lot of confidence. Emotional awareness is. Is key. And, you know, for. I think about my question that I asked about being a kid and having confidence And I think a lot of kids, confidence doesn't develop if their parents don't know how to emotionally validate. And I think emotional validation teaches us that it's okay to have the emotions that we're having. When we have big emotions. When we're kids and we don't have someone to help us navigate that, I think we develop a lack of confidence in our. In ourselves in a big way and our emotional selves. So we don't understand our emotions. We're not sure how to approach, process them. And you think about people that are not confident, they're also not good at regulating their emotions. They're not good at understanding their emotions. So I think people with emotional awareness, that makes it easier for them to become confident because they are able to have self compassion for their emotions and they're able to understand other people's emotions. And it allows us to have, like, efficacy. Like interpersonal efficacy, I think would be like, something like relating with other people and feeling like we can be confident in doing that, like in our relationships.
• 33:28
  Speaker A: Right.
• 33:29
  Speaker C: Emotions are such a big part of it. And then the last one I have here is like, there's no need to prove or compete again. I just think that that's something that comes from question one. Like, you know, this fake confidence, it's like, I can only be confident if you are not confident. I have to be better than you. Right. So there is just a, like, all ships rise when the tides rise kind of mentality with confident people. They're just like, yeah, I'm confident. And I want you to be confident too. Like, hop on board. Like, let's be confident, confident together. And it's not competitive. Yeah. Those are just some of the ideas that I can.
• 33:57
  Speaker A: Those are also good. And I know Reena wants to say something.
• 33:59
  Speaker B: Yeah, I was just gonna say you made me think of. You made me think of, like, how I operate when I'm at the club. Like, I have this.
• 34:07
  Speaker A: I'm real.
• 34:07
  Speaker B: I. I'm realizing stuff that it. It's just like, so fun. I'll be dancing. There is an environmental awareness and the consideration of the people around me. And sometimes if I see someone who's like, on the periphery or I can tell, I can just feel like they want to be involved, but they need to be invited. And so I'm like the kind of person who will pull someone in and then like, because I know when I'm out sometimes, like the shine, the attention is on me. And not all the time, but the attention is on me. And so what I do is I'll like take that spotlight and I'll kind of like pull someone into it and then I'll sort of step back, like I'll, I'll get them, get them sort of revved up and then I'll step back and let them, you know, bask in their own shine. And I feel like, yeah, when you, when you are confident and you don't always need the spotlight on you, you are aware of your surroundings and you do invite other people into their shine and you do inspire other people shine as a result, you know, you're not, you're not extracting it to have it. You know, you're like insourcing it and then, you know, sharing it and spreading it like glitter.
• 35:20
  Speaker C: Yeah, it's like being egocentrically confident versus heart centered confidence. Like ego doesn't want other people to be confident, it wants to steal the everyone's thunder. Whereas I feel like heart centered confidence is like, yeah, come on the dance floor and dance with me. I want you to also like bask in the, the spotlight as well.
• 35:37
  Speaker A: I love that. And that's, I think that's such a key distinction. I think, you know, if we're looking for distinctions, you can, between being and looking. When you're looking around in a room, you can, you can tell. I mean, at least I know that I can. Other people who are kind of hoarding it because I, like I said earlier, they're, they're coming from a place of desperation, anxiety versus this abundant kind of mentality that you guys are speaking of. Very, very different. Okay, what does real confidence look like in real life? So when I think about this, it's boring stuff. What people would call boring. It's, it's not performative, it's, it's quiet. People would think it's boring. And that's the whole point. And that's not to say again, I want to repeat this, that you know, you can have all the followers and be very popular and be loud and outgoing and all these things and have these, these other things and be confident. Okay, so it's an and not an or. But the word that you guys said that really stuck out for me was humility. Specifically, you know, when you are handling failure, loss, rejection, defeat. How do you respond to that? Right? Are you ultra angry at the world and other people and like, do you blame everyone else for it or do you just acknowledge this really hurts and this sucks and that's how I'm feeling right now. And my ego is bruised because I, I, I struck And I struck out or, or whatever. Um, and just sharing that with people and really letting that be your reality. So that, that emotional regulation that, that, that we talked about. Yeah. Instead of kind of doing what other people might do, which is to blame everybody else. And I'm going to take you all down with me so that if I'm down here, then you're all coming down too, so that I'm not the only one down here. Or, you know, I'll show you. Or I, you know, if it's rejection, I didn't want you anyway. You're ugly. Like that kind of thing. So that way, the way that they handle those kinds of things, because we all have to deal with it in the world. Right. So who are you in that moment? That's the question you ask. And when you see other people handle that really well, at least it sticks out for me. When I see people, like, fail or strike out and how they respond to themselves, I'm like, oh, that is a confident man right there.
• 37:41
  Speaker B: I love that question moment.
• 37:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. So similarly. Yeah. How you handle your missteps, do you posture or do you collapse? It's, you know, neither. It's kind of like, okay, this hurts, but I'm going to pick myself up and have my own back. So those are, those are the things I think you can really tell a person's character when they're going through that.
• 38:01
  Speaker C: Question for both of you, same question. But who is the most confident person that you know? Truly?
• 38:07
  Speaker B: I want this question, like, who comes.
• 38:09
  Speaker C: To mind when you think about somebody that's just like someone that I actually know, Fiercely confident that I actually know?
• 38:16
  Speaker A: I mean, I know a lot of confident folks, but I think because I know people so well, I also know the other bits.
• 38:25
  Speaker C: I.
• 38:25
  Speaker A: You know, I'd say probably some of my good friends are very confident because they. Exactly as I said. They. They can handle the defeat and they can handle the loss. But I think we all have our own insecurities. I don't think confidence is the absence of insecurity. I want to make that known as well. It's just. It's just knowing that you have them and that you can speak to them like I can. I can tell you guys what my insecurities are. Not a problem. So, yeah, I'd say probably it's my closest friends.
• 38:48
  Speaker C: Do you have someone that comes to mind?
• 38:51
  Speaker B: I mean, the person who's like, friend to mind isn't even somebody I really know. But it just so happens that I'm thinking about them. It's pm. I think pm, Canada's Drag Race. They're. They're the contestant from Vancouver, and I think it. Yeah, I think it's pm. I think that that's what they call themselves. But anyway, and the reason I name that is they're incredibly talented when it comes to what they do, as far as I know, and I don't know them well, they seem very kind. I watch how they own the space, but also, I don't know, there's just an energy about them. Like they own their character, they own their performance, they own the space. But I don't feel bravado. I don't feel overcompensation from them. I do feel this humility and this reverence and respect and regard for the. Their performance and this. Yeah, this environmental awareness, like, there. Again, I don't know them, but a lot of. A lot of what is listed here feels like boxes they would probably check off. And that's kind of the first person that comes up, which is so strange because I'm like, I don't really know you that well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:08
  Speaker C: Cool.
• 40:08
  Speaker A: How about you, Matt?
• 40:09
  Speaker C: You know, if I. I'll. I'll pick someone that everyone would know because just for. To make it fun, but I would probably say Taylor Swift. I've watched a couple of her documentaries, and there's just something about her. Like, she's what we just talked about in the second question. Like, she's not this. Like, you know, there's a. There's a humility about her in the way that she is. At least that's what I see on these. Like, I don't know her. Right. So you never know. But she seems very, very humble. And she also is very confident and carries herself very well. She takes up space, she projects her voice. I don't know, there's just a lot of things. I think that's actually something that we, none of us said in which I'm surprised. It's voice. There's something in the way that people use their voice when they're confident.
• 40:53
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 40:53
  Speaker C: And it's hard to even describe what it is, but it's just like it's projecting from a place within that feels like. Like guttural. Right. Like they're. There's just. They're speaking from their belly as opposed to maybe speaking from their throat or their chest.
• 41:07
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 41:07
  Speaker C: It's hard to describe it, but the.
• 41:10
  Speaker B: Word I would use is soulful. You know, like, in a way, there is. There is. There is a soulfulness. It's interesting too, because this came up. This. There's a theme coming up as of recently, these two words, self esteem and soulfulness. I was talking about how they're sort of like. They move in tandem in a way. Like the more. The more soulful, the more esteemed. The more esteemed, the more soulful kind of thing. And yeah, what I see is someone with. Someone with self esteem tends to be a very soulful person, you know, and that shows up in. In sort of what is exuded through them. For example, in their voice. Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker C: It's powerful.
• 41:55
  Speaker A: I thought of two things that I want to add to this question. And y' all listening, you. You will know if you ever. If you ever are in a room or in a space with other gay guys, notice this. When you meet someone in these gay spaces and they treat everyone the same, regardless of whether you. They want something from you or not. I don't know how to define this, but thinking of myself at gay spaces and like, you can just tell when people treat the guy, the quote unquote hot guy or the quote unquote rich guy, differently than the other guy.
• 42:36
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 42:37
  Speaker A: What I'm trying to say is the people who treat everyone the same, those are people who are truly confident because they don't need anything from you and they don't want anything from you. They will just treat you, everyone, with respect, regardless of your age, what you look like, or whatever they think they may be able to get from you. And that, to me is not only confident, but I find it very sexy.
• 42:54
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 42:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker C: Kindness.
• 42:55
  Speaker A: Kindness, yeah.
• 42:56
  Speaker C: As a demisexual, that is the key to my heart. A kind man, like, who's genuinely kind of. And not just kind when you want something, but just kind. Oh, God. Nothing is sexier than kindness.
• 43:07
  Speaker B: I love that you named that, and I'm so glad that you did because it's definitely something that I see and. And something I'm curious about as well. And I don't know if it's something like I have the answer to or would answer, but when I think of the list that we like, I wrote this question down. What do people who. Who do these things understand or get like, about life? Like what. What is it that a person who embodies all of those qualities or engages in these ways, what do they get that someone who doesn't does not get? You know, that's a curiosity I have.
• 43:48
  Speaker A: Right.
• 43:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Speaker A: I think a big piece of it is, is. Is whether you're kind of what I was saying about performing, like when you make a. We go through our lives just making decisions and choices every moment. But if you can, if you, if you're decisive in a way that, like, you know your values, you know who you are, you know what you're saying yes to, you know what you're saying no to, and you don't need consensus or applause, so you can just live your life with, without. I mean, the applause is great when it happens, but you don't need it. I think that that's one of those things that people just know to answer that question. And you, you. I, I follow soccer and I love soccer. And coaches always say this. It's very common in the, in the game, you let the results speak for themselves. So players, they get bashed in the media for having a bad game, a good game, whatever. And, you know, the great players will always say, I'm not going to respond to that. I'll let the results speak for themselves. Because they don't need to get the media on board or a journalist on board. They'll just respond on the field kind of thing. And I, I like to apply that within your life. Like, let your life do the talking for you. You don't need to. You don't need to justify anything to anybody or convince anyone of anything.
• 44:54
  Speaker B: I think we, I think an important reminder too is that we never really know what someone is going through. You know, like, we, we never really know what, what the people were engaging with or going through. And so, yeah, I think having that awareness impacts or influences how I interact with people. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about that. I think the reason I brought that up is because as we were talking about how we sort of relate to our environment and our surroundings in terms of consideration, care, inclusivity, et cetera. I can remember when I was younger, I went to our local gay bar and there was someone. There was someone there who I had connected with a few times, and he would show up in one of those electric wheelchairs. And I was curious about him. And so I ended up going and having a conversation with him and then inviting him to join me, like, to dance. Right. And to be clear, like, especially at that point, like, it was an awkward experience for me initially, in some ways because I. It was new for me. Right. But I didn't let that get in the way of me connecting with him. I discovered not too long after that that he actually passed and, and it was, it was sad to hear. And what I remember about, you know, discovering that was like this gratitude that we had had the opportunity to connect in a Kind way, in a sincere way, in a fun way before his passing. And I didn't know this guy. He was a stranger, more or less. You know, we connected a few times on the dance floor, but again, this, I think. I think, you know, not to make it all about this, but. Really? Yeah. You just don't know. You know, you just don't know. And so kindness, confidence. Yeah, I digress, though. I digress.
• 46:56
  Speaker A: Thank you for sharing. And that's a great way to end the episode. Kindness. Do we have any last words from you, Matt? I don't know.
• 47:05
  Speaker C: I feel like part of me is like we talked about it, like it was a bit linear. And I just want to say that, you know, over the course of my life, it's been very dynamic, going through spiritual awakenings, rebirths, reinventions. Like, your confidence can be majorly rocked. And so it's not something that I think is a destination that we get to. That which is like, now I'm perfectly confident.
• 47:25
  Speaker A: Right.
• 47:25
  Speaker C: It's like, it's. I think it's something for me that I can have efficacy in certain things and feel confident and then other things I don't. And. Right. So I think it's. And that's why humility is so important and self compassion. And I think the more we practice those things with ourselves, the more we will feel confidence because it's like we don't have to be perfect at everything. Right.
• 47:44
  Speaker A: And you don't have to feel confident all the time either. That's not. That's not the point of life.
• 47:48
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 47:49
  Speaker A: Handle those ups and downs.
• 47:50
  Speaker C: Right.
• 47:50
  Speaker A: Like I said earlier, some of the most confident people I know are insecure, but that's not. It doesn't mean that that doesn't take away from your confidence.
• 47:57
  Speaker C: Yeah, I get socially anxious in groups of gay men, like in social settings because I'm picking up a lot of stuff.
• 48:03
  Speaker A: Right.
• 48:03
  Speaker C: So it might appear like that I would be like not confident or whatever if I feel. Or it would probably wouldn't appear. It would feel like to me in my body that I'm not confident, but it's just. Right. So.
• 48:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, don't judge a book by its cover, though.
• 48:17
  Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:17
  Speaker A: Okay. Thank you, Matt and Reno, for. For your insight. As always. Thank you to our listeners and viewers for joining us today. If you're on YouTube, now's a great time to go ahead and tap that thanks button to support the Gamelin's brotherhood and the Game and Going People podcast. By the way, guys, if you want to listen to the next episode, and you don't want to wait until next week, go on Apple Podcasts and you get access to early episodes before they are released wide. All your support helps us to continue making this content and supporting our community. So we thank you in advance. We'll see you next time. Bye.