Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / IWD - The Panel - Give to Gain: Flipping the narrative to Gain Control for International Women’s day 2026

Transcript

IWD - The Panel - Give to Gain: Flipping the narrative to Gain Control for International Women’s day 2026 · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_06: Welcome to International Women's Day 2026.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_06: How is everyone?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_06: I've been looking forward to this for absolutely forever.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_06: Before we get into it, I want to give you a little context.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_06: International Women's Day doesn't belong to a single organisation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_06: It began in 1910 when a German activist called Clara Zetkin proposed a global day for women's rights at an international conference of working women.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_06: It's not a UN initiative or a corporate campaign.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_06: It's about everyday women exhausted and done with waiting, demanding voting rights, fair wages, and basic dignity.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_06: The first events took place in 1911.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_06: The UN didn't formally recognise the day until 1975, more than 60 years after women created it from the ground up.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_06: That history matters because what started as a day of collective action has over time become something more complicated.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_06: This year two very different themes were circulating under the same name.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_06: The United Nations official focus for International Women's Day 2026 is rights, justice and action for all women and girls.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_06: It centres legal protection, structural inequality, and the reality that globally women still hold only around 64% of the legal rights that men have.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_06: Alongside that sits a theme from a privately owned UK marketing company, the website InternationalWomen's Day.com, which produces its own annual campaign slogans.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_06: This year it's Give to Gain.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_06: The UN has publicly clarified it has no affiliation with this site, and yet because it's high rankings across search engines mean that many organisations treat it as the official word.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_06: For many women, and we include our non-binary and trans community here, giving has not always been a choice.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_06: It has been an expectation.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_06: Time, energy, care, silence, strength, adaptation over and over and over again, exhaustingly.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_06: A theme that asks women to give more in order to gain more can land, depending on where you're standing, less like inspiration and more like extraction.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_06: Particularly for migrant women, asylum seekers, refugees, women for whom the ask to give has really come as a choice.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_06: So I thought, why don't we flip this narrative and take give to gain back, but on our own terms?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_06: Not giving more of ourselves away, but giving with intention, giving voice to gain power, giving visibility to gain representation, giving support to gain community, giving boundaries to gain sustainability.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_06: And sometimes where it's safe enough to do so, giving up silence to gain belonging.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_06: Because this is not about transaction, I give, therefore I gain, the PR version.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_06: What I wanted us to explore was transformation.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_06: What have we given that changed what gain means to us now?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_06: Give to gain is not about giving more of yourself away.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_06: It's about giving intentionally so that what we gain is shared, sustainable, and powerful.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_06: And so I wanted to ask you something before we began.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_06: When did you last give yourself honest, unconditional permission to take up space?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_06: To speak when the room expected you to stay quiet, to need something to be seen.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_06: What you're about to hear is a conversation recorded on International Women's Day 2026 with 14 extraordinary women, non-binary, and trans women gathered by Carlisle, International Women's Group, and Woman Up here in Cumbria.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_06: We talked about what happens when you give yourself back to yourself, when you stop performing the safe, managed, acceptable version and finally show up as the real one.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_06: You're about to hear from Mina, Cynthia, Fatima, Tina, Adrian, Emma, Sam, and our brilliant live panel audience members.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_06: A special shout out to Parker.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for all your support on the day with the recording and everything else.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_06: You were absolutely awesome.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_06: Right then, let's grab those boots or get settled in.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_06: I'm your host, Sukanya.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_06: This is Sakanya the Podcast, and here is your episode for International Women's Day 2026.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_06: Let's walk.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_06: So please consider using these two prompts.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_06: Hi, my name is.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_06: One thing that I'd love for people to ask me, but rarely get asked is, or my name is one thing that people often assume about me is.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, my name is Mina, and one thing that people usually assume about me is that I'm an extrovert person, but I am not extrovert, I am just masking most of the time.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: And after one day of socializing, I need like three days on my own to recover and come back again.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_05: And one thing I wish people were curious about me, it's not just about my work, because I have a life beyond work.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: And I would wish that they would ask me what inspires me, what values uh motivate me beyond what I do every day.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, I'm Tina, and one thing that I wish people asked me more about was my dance background.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think that well, some people don't know about it, um, but also maybe some people don't ask me because I have a disability and they don't think that it's important to me anymore, maybe, but it it is.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's still like a really big part of my life, and I still find ways to weave it into my life.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, my name is Adrian, and one thing that people assume about me here in Cumbria is that I'm from here until I open my mouth, and apparently I have an Irish accent.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm from Dublin.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Then they ask, why are you here?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you leave that great vibrant city?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but actually I love it here.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's everything's great, and um, I really enjoy living here.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_14: Hey everyone, I am Fatima.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_14: Oh, one thing that uh people often is about me that I am single, but I am not single.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_14: I am married, I have kids.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_13: That is very lovely when someone calls me you're single, you are not looking that you are married.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_13: How many kids was that, Fatima?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_13: I have four kids.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_13: Two boys and two girls.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I would never have guessed that if I, you know, having just seen you, I wouldn't have guessed that at all.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_12: It's because you look so young, Fatima.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_12: You know, that when you are saying that you're looking young, you know, I become more young.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_15: Hi, I'm Sam.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_15: I would love for people to ask me um about the adventures that I've had and the adventures that I would like to go on because I just feel I like to get under the surface of what makes people who they are.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_15: And that really tends not to be what they do as a day job, where they live.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_15: I'm much more interested in, you know, the things that have shaped them and and the adventures that they've been on uh throughout their life.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_06: So Kanya, I'm your host today.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_06: I would like to say a big thank you to Carl International Women's Group and Women Up for inviting me today to talk to you all.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_06: So, one thing people assume about me is very similar to Mina.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_06: So people assume that I'm a massive extrovert, but I'm actually a massive introvert, and I spend a lot of my time at home, probably about 80% of my week at home on my own, doing all the things that I love to do.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_06: Nice to meet you all, and thank you for being here.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_06: So let's get into the prompts then.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_06: So we're here to talk about give to gain.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_06: One of the first things that we're going to talk about is giving voice to gain power.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_06: So many women are socialized to minimize.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_06: So we're we're kind of taught societally to keep ourselves small.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_06: So when a woman speaks honestly, she is giving her voice, and the gain from doing that can be agency, clarity, and influence.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think for me, like because the country that I am coming from, women don't have that much voice, even though in their family and in their like that small family group, they actually be being given voice, like my family.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: But the society and the country that I am coming from technically shut down women's voices.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been mostly silent during my life before I moved here.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: But since I moved to the UK and meeting new people, the people that they they supported me and they encouraged me to talk and not being silent, and that sense of community, it helped me to actually be more outspoken and say what I think and I need to say.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Although I am aware of that that I am privileged that I am not in a danger and it's not possible for so many women.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, to actually still use their voice.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_05: I began to project my voice as early as a teenager because I was given the platform from uh my family to always speak up for myself.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I was highly empowered by a man in the form of my father to do so.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: And that is uh the values they all instilled with me at the family level is what has made me to be who I am today.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_05: And um I keep going because of the encouragement I got, even when I got people from the outside who would say, Oh, you cannot do it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: But that backbone that I talked about, like my family members are always pushing me towards greatness.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: So, like I like I said in my introduction, I wish people knew what drives me.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: I wish the people knew me beyond work because whatever happens beyond work is what is pushing the work.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I built my voice at a very early age, and that is what pushed me to levels I cannot even imagine because I was in a sector where you wouldn't find women in the security sector in a third-world country.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_05: So for me, that encouragement made me to go as far as sitting in tables with men and you being forced not to even put on lipstick and scarves just to look like them.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_05: All odds.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_06: And yes, I put on my lipstick, I put on my scar, and yes, I'm different, and it's a good and actually with both both your stories, you know, there there is so much resilience required there, isn't there?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_06: To be in a society that doesn't uphold women's perspectives and voices and being in environments like it's it's quite intimidating actually to be in those situations and put yourself out there and keep pushing.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_06: That's incredible.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for sharing.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very aware of my privilege in living in the UK, growing up in the UK.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: However, when I was younger, um my family were very old-fashioned, and my dad in particular was he he silenced all of the women around us, you know, particularly my mum.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, she wasn't allowed to say certain things, she wasn't allowed to act in a certain way.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Very early on, I I became very aware of my views about equality.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted everybody to have uh I didn't understand why everybody didn't have the same opportunities, and I didn't like the things that people called people who had a different skin colour, a different accent.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I hated that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so I would speak out with with my family, and I would often get shouted down by my dad.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: So that caused a lot of conflict during my teenage years, and yeah, that that that continued for um a very long time, and to some extent uh still continues now, unfortunately.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I've just I'm fortunate that I'm in a position, I've found my voice and I'm found a way to to use it to my advantage.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: I try and use it by trying to find positive ways around it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_04: But it it's I I know that not everybody is able to do that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so I do feel extremely fortunate for that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_15: I think that it's important to recognise the different ways that we can challenge injustice, the injustice that we see and that we experience.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_15: That impacts us and that doesn't impact us.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_15: And I think that once you tune in and see the world through that lens, you know, through the lens of sort of social justice, you can't unsee it.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_15: You you see it, you start to see it everywhere and become tuned in and able to find ways that are accessible to you to challenge it.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_15: And that doesn't always mean leading the protests.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_15: It might mean offering, you know, support to somebody who needs it or helping somebody find their voice to speak out.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_15: There's so many ways, but I think it's really important that we tune into it and help enable other people to tune into.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_06: That sounds again, it's the same, isn't it?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_06: It's kind of I was gonna say battling, but it is it is a battle, isn't it?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_06: It's kind of almost on a daily basis trying to having to push yourself and pick yourself up and have that fight because you know that actually your voice is important and we need to get it out there.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_06: So thank you for doing what you do.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_14: One thing that I really work about the things that I missed when I was a teenager, I don't had any wise to grow and grow up my wise because of some society situations like that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_14: Not from my family, but from society.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_14: I wanted to open maternity education on that time, but actually I can't do it because no one can allow me to do that.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_14: Um and then at last I just started to open the I was really too successful to be to open the word suddenly I came to here.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_14: Still I miss the day still I really like to begin women's voice, because in my own country women doesn't have any voice, they are uneducated because of that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_14: I wanted to open a charity education, just they know a little bit about themselves, what they are.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, but I really like now and here I have my own voice.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_14: I can yeah, I can do everything, whatever I want.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_06: Well, it's a little bit heartbreaking, isn't it?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_06: That in 2026, we're massively heartbreaking.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_06: In 2026, we're in a situation where women and girls still don't have their voice around the world.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_06: And it's I think it's fantastic that someone like you, Fatima exists who wants to change that.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_06: And this group of women, and so many women who are putting themselves out there and pushing those boundaries for the girls that come after us is so important.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_06: And that's why days like today are so important and why we have to honour International Women's Day and keep having these conversations.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for sharing that.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, really, just to say I feel doubly privileged here amongst you all, you know, for so many reasons.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it is just interesting, I suppose, the role of our fathers as influences in our lives.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: My father is also very supportive of all five of his daughters.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Just drop that one in there.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, really, yeah.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I find that in it interesting.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course, our our roles as as parents where that's the case.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, that's that's so important for future generations.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let's keep raising our voice where we can and not feel threatened by some of the forces that seem to be rising in our community.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just feel so much stronger among among you all today.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good point.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_06: Two really great points that I picked up there was well, three.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_06: A your dad's awesome for, you know, empowering his five daughters.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_06: And kind of leads on to that allyship aspect and how important it is for all of us to have those strong allies, because sometimes we need our allies to speak the words that we can't speak, and so for some reason it lands better than it would if it comes from us, because then we get framed in a different way for speaking the same words, and so you know that that relationship is so important.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_06: I've completely forgotten my third point, so we'll move on.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_06: It might come back to me.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_06: I got so carried away with allyship.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_06: So, in terms of giving voice to gain power and women being socialized to minimize, is there anything else we want to add?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: Gaining the power, I think, what I got from the community and people that I met since I moved here, it was that the encouragement and the thing that I can do it and there wasn't that much limitation that I had back home, I think is actually empowered me to be able to be me.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And also I think another thing that pushed me to use my voice more was that, as I said, I had that privilege and the opportunity to be able to speak, raise awareness and educate people about what is what has happened to me, like my own personal experience.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because now I know that it actually re-traumatized me sometimes.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, I think it was helpful for women like myself that they moved here and they went from countries like my country, or women that they didn't think that they can do some of the things.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was kind of they could hear someone that been through the same thing, but they could do more in this country because of the the law that here is to protect women.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: However, I don't know how much we can actually see that, but at the same time, if somebody like abused us or whatever, we can go to the police and say like that happened.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: But in my country, the victim would be the at fault, the woman that is the victim.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay most of the time.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: So but here you know that even if you go to the police and say like have been abused mentally, physically, they will do something based on the law.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: So there are things that protect you.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think that raising awareness for my community and also for people that maybe don't they don't have that much idea what is happening in our countries actually helped.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: I like to think that it helped women and I think it helped me so much as well because I met amazing women in the last seven years and that community and that support that I am getting and that sense of belonging that I'm feeling is because of that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's something that you give but you gain more than anybody else.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you gain personally and you gain as a group, don't you?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_15: As Mina has very eloquently outlined, I believe that allowing a space for people to build relationships and to raise women up and to provide a non-judge judgmental space is invaluable for people who maybe just feel that they don't have that elsewhere in their lives.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_15: And I feel that our organizations Woman Up and Carlisle International Women's Group share this sort of common value where these spaces can be really powerful and really shape people's lives if they are find somebody who they can trust and feel able to share the burden or to seek support or to have somebody in their lives who who isn't going to judge them for whatever it is that they are concerned about or seeking refuge from.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_15: I think that is incredibly powerful just to reiterate what Mina said really and how I've seen it over and over again you know other women being able to provide a supportive space when maybe nobody else in their life at that time can offer that and it can be validating and really uplifting.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_15: I also think that these spaces are really important for educating others because in a really informal way we can talk about things that are impacting on the women that we work with on the women that we are friends with on the women in our lives and the incredible women that enrich our lives because I've met so many of those women who make my life far more rich and yeah I love I love that that is is what I gain from the time I spend with these incredible women.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_06: And actually that segues very nicely into the second prompt so thank you.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_06: So that is giving up silence to gain belonging which is speaks to what you were just saying really doesn't it that you're feeling much more empowered and actually you're helping other people's empowerment by giving your voice space and platform.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: I like Mina I give yes but I then again I I I've tended to or rather I've experienced a lot of gain out of giving up my time my expertise my skills I find that I've really gained more and I truly appreciate the community in Carlisle we might have the small percentage in here but the larger population is quite supportive of immigration and the people coming in and thus creating opportunities for people like us to open safe spaces and centers.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_05: I was surprised that you didn't know that Africana existed to Kanya oh I know isn't that hair yeah I mean Africana I live in the South Lakeland with different persons.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah so this community has given us opportunity and voice to actually belong and that is a very powerful thing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_05: And there's something I learned from the women's group that came here on International Women's Day one person said that no is a full sentence you know we actually should be able to know our limits and just say no because sometimes I give too much and crash at the end of the day and I'm like no it's because I didn't want to say no but from having a group of people because I got that opportunity from the networks I had and the mentorship I got I get to learn how to set my boundaries and have my limits and know what I can do and what I cannot do.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: And even the support because since I came to the UK I've had my good bad and adling and it's not it's not there's some things I'm not proud of but 80% 90% I'm very very proud of the community and the support even to people who are coming in and that needs to be appreciated and applauded loud.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_06: In terms of giving up silence to gain belonging when you're not used to sharing your voice and sharing yourself, understanding those boundaries is actually really tricky isn't it to know where to start where to stop and who your people are and that is going to be trial and error and you are going to make mistakes along the way with that but trust that you're gonna attract the right people based on your words.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_05: Oh that was really powerful thank you.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: And quite unfortunately most of us get to learn our lessons the hard way because you're coming into a community from a different continent and then you are just thrown into this sea with different values different so we want to nurture our belonging without actually losing ourselves because belonging doesn't mean you have to lose yourself.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_05: Integrating doesn't mean you lose yourself.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_06: So absolutely the two things can exist together can't they can and be celebrated.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was just thinking about the fact that I think as an ally um it it's you know sometimes I have to be really mindful of not wanting to push people too much.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know so giving people the time and space that they need to be able to find their voice because you know sometimes it's enough for people to come to several coffee mornings and just be and takes a while it takes a long time I think for that trust sometimes to build and it's different with everybody and I just I think that that's really important and I wish that more people were a little bit more giving in that respect would be you know just in general in society I mean just allow people benefit of the doubt you know if they're a quiet person well maybe consider why they're being quiet you know why they need to do that for themselves.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah but I think also just that that the thing about giving to gain for me a lot of people say to me oh you know you you're very selfless you're very giving and I'm like well actually I'm really not because I get so much from giving in the work that I do because I really wholeheartedly believe that it's very much what goes around comes around.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you give it's so rewarding especially when I think somebody tells you that you you've had an impact on their life in some however small way that is you know it makes me think okay I am doing something all right then so you know I'll carry on with with this yeah I'm really agree with Tina uh that every time if you give again you can get more and more if you restrict anybody if you pull out like that you can you can get more for yourself for some time if you push anybody to give a power to her or her voice might be it is difficult for you and might be they misjudge you while you pushing them while you suggesting them to gain advice to give power to her vice or her voice.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_14: If some sometime if you wanna to be with someone like uh to uh to gain your voice on that time you don't know to whom you should speak or to whom you should to talk who is loyal with you and who can who can keep you in a good way it is very difficult.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_14: That's why most of the time you know we are struggling to find a good people for ourselves to gain our voice.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah but probably and from international groups I really really find a good person.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_14: They are really helpful they are pushing us in a right way they are giving us in the right things that uh I really appreciated.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: That support is invaluable isn't it yeah thank you Fatima and yeah just to agree with Tina about how rewarding it is to work with women from around the world especially those who've recently come to live in Carlisle and following them on their journeys to settling here and being part of the community.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah the question was about power and I mean yeah is is the traditional understanding of power something that we all want?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh that understanding is maybe from a capitalist or patriarchal point of view because I'm quite happy with having a balance in my life and I mean yeah I want power over my my own life and my own decisions of course but I don't need power over other people and in the traditional understanding.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_06: And then in terms of giving up silence to gain belonging is there a power power dynamic there when we're giving up silence?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: There shouldn't be because if you are giving selfishly uh selflessly and you are giving but you don't expect something in return there is not power dynamic in a sense that we know like a hierarchy but like based on my own experience I think that you're a migrant or somebody come to a country that the you don't know the language and you don't know who you are and for example myself coming from a country that I wasn't allowed to do many of things by the law and by the society like I didn't even allow to get my own passport on my own.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I needed to either have my dad's permission or my my husband's permission.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then and I know in the family like my dad was really good and he had his own way to tell us that women should have more rights.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: But also we couldn't practice it because we didn't have that space and that opportunity to like practice that and you come in a country and you see like oh wow so you need to unlearn many things and learn many other things when you are trying to adjust to the new environment learning about the culture learning about the language and and trying to fit in first because I didn't know the word belonging till like a few years ago and it is something that I think all human beings need to feel to be able to survive to be able to thrive and uh to continue.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for me like at the beginning I was trying my like so hard to be able to find that community that I didn't know even what is that community.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: Find my place I didn't know what place it should be and it would be because I didn't know myself and it is so difficult to feel that belonging and then by the time I think learning more and more about myself I said as as Cynthia said like saying no because at first I put myself through a lot and I did a lot because I wanted to find myself and be able to help as well and I was gaining a lot I was like helping a lot but at the same time I was going down mentally and energy wise and me with that ADSG brain that I didn't know even I have ADSG so it would be so much force and imposter syndrome and everything.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a very complex thing it's not something that you can gain it that easy or you can't you can't find it that easy but having people around you and finding that people or those people if you're lucky enough to have the uh the right people is so important to help you through your journey to get to that point that oh I have some sense of belonging I feel here is my home they are my family like I have my children family I have friends.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't it's not easy it still is about like how much freedom you can have here based on who who you are with or if if you have other barriers there apart from language and different culture there are many other barriers.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think if I wasn't ready to give up those things that I learned when we say giving we think about giving to people just people but if I didn't give myself that I didn't uh allow myself and that permission to just you can unlearn you are free now.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah it's different I wouldn't be able to gain any friends any families uh any chosen families or any community who I am that giving up isn't just about as you said it isn't just about other people it's what's happening within us as well isn't it and to to free ourselves to liberate ourselves to have different experiences and to free our voices.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then we can actually support and help and be there for others as well.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: Others with their journeys yeah but in a better way or more clear minded.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_15: As women we're conditioned to mask more aren't we and also to bear the brunt of the mental load often thinking about things for everybody and other people and and that caring role where we are conditioned to be the carer to everybody but ourselves quite often.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_15: Silence can keep us safe you know it's true that if we stay quiet and we stay small then we are safer for it.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_15: So if we are able to break a silence because I think with silence comes shame you know it comes hand in hand really and if you can break that silence even if it's like Mina already said even if it's to just one person who you trust then that that shame diminishes and gradually you know you are more accepting of whatever it is that you felt that you needed to be silent about yeah you cannot you cannot do from an impact exactly every everything has two ways like positive and negative ways I come to uh for silences in which situation we should be silent or in which situation we should gain our voice sometimes because of uh differences between languages between culture between uh cities we are struggling how to gain our voice remind me that in this situation we make a mistake we say something like that the other people miss us understanding you and they can't let you to grow up so in this situation I think it's my own my own opinion that you should be silent that I when first time I came here I had a lot of problems with my neighbors with the the area that I was um living now they using a word for me that I can't I can't share in here once two times I was I must gain my voice I gave them the things that they they tell me I written them but it becomes worse and worse it doesn't solve the problem after that I think myself I should be silent because it might be my silence is working here.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_14: After that I think when I totally make myself silent when totally I start to ignore them just I don't look to them after that it become really good now they are respecting me when I go outside they are saying hello to me and they are very nice.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_14: That's why I'm saying everything has two ways we should keep we are we should our our voice we are should to gain our voice when we are we should to be silent.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that shows like huge resilience and courage as well you know in a person and for you to do that you know I really I really admire you for that Fatima because I think it's really hard sometimes you know when you feel like there is huge injustice for you to not just jump in and say something and you know shout at the person because it's so annoying and it's so frustrating and it's it's not fair.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: So you know why should you have to be silent you shouldn't have to be but I really respect that you know Fatima's made such a brave decision there and it's kind of a a lesson to us all I think that you know there is a a time and a place for speaking out as hard as that is and it is hard to choose the right time and place and also like just about being your true to your authentic self you know that's that's hard.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: And as I relate to it Mina with the whole having ADHD you know like I'm trying to work at hard at the moment on unmasking and not hiding my true self.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_04: But again there are times when I know that that's really not going to be welcome.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: I have to really consider that and I've always got those internal voices going on all the time.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I think women have that so much more than men do.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: We've constantly having to weigh everything up and consider things from all different perspectives in general.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_08: Hiya my name is Emma.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_08: I'm a trans woman I first transitioned 24 years ago when I was working as a ship's officer it came as quite a shock to me that the assumption was immediately made that because I was expected to wear a skirt I could no longer do my job.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_08: I had to work to very high standards anyway and I was under constant criticism and and watchfulness from the other officers and the captains especially the management the glass ceiling was also slammed very firmly on my head and my training towards being a captain was also stopped.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_08: This continued until I was made redundant which was a bit of a relief for everybody I think.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_08: After working for stagecoach to 10 years I retired and moved some 400 miles from where I was living and working and was living in stealth for the last 12 years.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_08: In the in the previous the last two years I've been able to come out to the to the ladies at Woman Up and the Carlisle International Women's Group who have all been very supportive and I'm now a committee member for Woman Up.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_08: Since the 16th of April the world has changed completely as far as I'm concerned.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_08: My gender recognition certificate has been declared invalid or worthless and um I'm now frightened to be outed in public and I'm being much more circumspect about who I speak to.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_08: I have never felt so unsafe or insecure at any time in the last 25 years and um it's reached a point now where I've actually been offered accommodation in Holland by a friend should I need to leave the UK because I no longer feel safe here.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_06: Hey everyone is everyone rested everyone got coffee tea water good there's lots of big smiles that's what we like to see so we are going to move on to the next prompt.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_06: It's like there's a plan people so we're now gonna talk about giving support to gain community support is not weakness and I think that's really important to relate back to our previous conversation around silence and as Mina said you know even if you talk to just one person to get be seen and be heard and get that support that's so important and that could really change things for for us.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_06: So support is not weakness it's an infrastructure it's when women show up mental Introduce each other, recommend each other, and so on and so forth.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_06: And the gain is in stronger networks and softer landings, which I really love, that softer landings bit.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_06: All quite interlinked anyway.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_06: And I think we've touched on community a bit, but in terms of how you described your journey separately in Carlisle and how that's come together with the communities that you've engaged with and the communities that have formed around you, really, because of how you've put yourself out there and what you've attracted.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_06: How do we feel about that sort of developing on our conversation so far?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, as you said, they are all connected.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you have that community and support network, you are more likely to be able to break your silence and actually talk and share with others.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: And also knowing people can help you to actually connect them to each other.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think I did it with someone on Mary and someone you somehow, uh, because it is just like and someone Tina and someone Adrian when we were doing our project, Women's Panop Project, which was the first project that we did to work with refugee and asylum seeking women.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: And actually the purpose of that project was to actually empower, not empower, I don't like the empowerment, but support women to actually gain their voice and be able to share what they need to and have that community.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then we started to get to know each other and meet other people that each one of us knew, and we built that big support network that we knew that we won't be judged, we won't be ashamed and blamed for what happened to us or what we were doing.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: And now it became warm-up.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now I think the first time that I met Adrian was in International Women's Group and Tina as well, uh seven years ago, actually.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: And all of these amazing people that I know, it was by starting going to that coffee morning and just we all just connected like a verb.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it is what is so beautiful about it.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: Giving credit to each other and introducing each one of us to another person.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's just so beautiful to sit here and see people that I met seven years ago, and then that verb got me here today.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: So this is the beauty of that.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_05: I can say that the journey is not easy, really.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_05: Especially for individuals who are coming in or families that are coming in.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, there's something you've mentioned that seeking support is not a form of weakness.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_05: If you told me that two years ago, I'd be like, mm, I want my life private, I don't want any support.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, okay.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_05: I know that's hard here.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_05: I'm struggling, I'm relearning, I'm learning and relearning things.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_05: So me being silent really ended up hurting me so badly personally.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_05: And I picked up very, very hard lessons along the way, and then I realized I think I need support.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_05: But maybe it was too late.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_05: But how I look at it is it was a learning session for me.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm not afraid to say that I picked up therapy and counseling along the way to bring me back to character.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: That's something that has never happened in my life.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_05: Not even, not even, nothing can take me out of character.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_05: But in this instance, I think so many things were happening at the same time, including trying to integrate, trying to make friends, missing your family, being homesick, things happening to you, your health issues along the way, your weight issues, your self-esteem.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_05: And I allowed that to get in the way.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_05: And I would encourage women out there, it's not too late to seek support.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like you said, I have always touched an olive branch to anyone out there.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_05: If you want to have coffee and just talk about nothing, everything, give me a call.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes even talking to your friends helps, but for me, I feel like it's a form of weakness, and I had to snap out of it very quickly.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_05: Nowadays I talk more, I go out more, I know say no.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_06: That's such a difference, isn't it?
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_06: Just in two years.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, two years isn't really that long a time to make such big changes.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_06: And you are glowing.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_06: Like you you literally light up a room when you walk in.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_03: Nina knows that.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I remember I remember Cynthia.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: I never seen her to laugh or a smile that much that she is now.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's all this is.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: But being a woman is not by being a woman is not easy to seek support.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: You feel like you need to support everyone, but you don't allow to your uh this to yourself, or there is no uh nothing for you to like people should get support from you, but you don't see that permission for yourself that okay, I I I have that uh what do you call it, worth.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: I am worthy enough to get that support.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um my existence has a meaning.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's not for others, it's for myself as well.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: Also being uh not being a white woman and not being a British white woman, yeah, uh and being like black black or brown and being from black uh from global majority community, it is even harder because you not only trying to fit in as a person that just moved to the new country, you try to like find yourself as a person that when you go out, everybody can see that you're different.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: Or someone else.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I I remember like sometimes even now, people like when they see me, I feel like they feel like we are like idiots or we don't understand anything, and they underestimate us so much that it's just based on first impressions and what you look at.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like she is coming from this country, so definitely women in this country don't have that much education, or that she is not white, so she wouldn't have that much education because you I didn't know the language that much.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: I am still not fluent in English, but I am so much better than when I moved here.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_03: That assumption in some people's heads is just like, okay, she doesn't have a voice, she can't even talk, she doesn't understand.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like a bigger struggle, and you're vulnerable.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: And like I think blaming yourself as much to say like it was my fault, like my my I am talking to Cynthia and to myself and all of people like myself and all women because you need to be graceful to yourself because we come in with all of those difficulties, we have all those traumas and limitations and everything from back home.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: We move here, we need to adjust to the new environment and going through through more traumas and learning and all of this.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: You're so vulnerable at that time that it's a lot to go through.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_03: Each person faces it in a different way.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it was just saying that, and it's it takes courage, as Tina said, and you all said it takes courage.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_06: And to to what Tina said before, you know, when you're in a community environment or any environment and you see that one person who's choosing to be quiet, be kind because you don't know why they're choosing to be quiet, you don't know what that backstory is.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_06: You're right.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: Help them come out of themselves.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_05: Especially there was a situation that was very volatile uh some few months ago, raising the flag.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_05: So many people chose to be quiet, they want to talk about it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I I tried to say something in such situations, people just don't want to talk about it, especially uh people who are coming in right now, they don't want to lose their visas because they want they've been silenced by the by the institutions that are meant to protect them.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, that's just the worst, isn't it?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you you're you're silenced by that community that's supposed to be protecting you.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: You've come here uh for that protection, and immediately the first thing you're met with are these this negativity.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: So which and that is so frustrating for people who really want to try and make a difference and really want us to be a society that is equitable, where we all have the same rights, we all have the same opportunities, you know, in balance with our lives and our circumstances just makes me so frustrated.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_05: We are live Valentine every day.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know, exactly.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's people who've come here to work, you know, for example, as carers, nurses, and factory workers, they're also receiving a hostile welcome.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, the flags are upsetting for for all of us who aren't from here, but especially those who've been invited here to to care for us or you know, do these important jobs as well as those as well as as those who've come to seek sanctuary.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: But let's keep building each other up and creating and spreading positivity.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_06: I think it kind of circles back quite nicely to the theme of International Women's Day and what we're here to sort of represent is actually giving to gain, giving support to gain community.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_06: All the things that you're raising right now is kind of upheld by this community that you've found and finding that sort of comfort and support in your communities.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_06: And just so it speaks to the power of community, doesn't it?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_06: And the power of networking.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, we we look out for each other, but we also, you know, we we we tell each other, we you know, we can criticize each other in positive ways, and and and that's another way of learning.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like how we support each other, we have the sisterhood, and then I I just have to come contrast that with how how a man might offer criticism that can really knock you down, and it's it's just really different.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I want to do more of this.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_05: Being encouraged to show up even when you don't want to show up.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_05: Like I said, there are things personal happened to me, and and I would get encouragement from different women in this room to just get up and show up, even when I didn't want to.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't have the energy, I didn't have the zeal.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_05: I had, I think if compared to battery percentage, I was at negative five, but the encouragement and the mentorship that was going on around me did not allow me to give up.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_05: So for someone who's coming in and not a local, we really need that support.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_05: And we need the we need the introductions to go on, we need, we need recommendations for different things because even being signposted or someone telling you, oh yeah, you need to book this with a GP or something, it it gives you a lot of um enlightenment and it makes your life easier, intertwined or connected with giving up silence.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like it's something that should be talked about on a daily.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_05: Uh using all the groups around Carlisle has been gainful for me and everyone in the community, really.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's really important, and I am I'm really humbled by uh hearing everybody reflect on the the community that we have, and we're really fortunate to have, and that that is, I think, for everybody involved, you know, it's I get as much from it as I give.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: It really is that true kind of full circle give-to-gain experience for me.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm also mindful often that we can be almost like speaking in an echo chamber.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we we're with people who are like-minded, who are understanding and supportive, but we're not necessarily able to connect with a lot of other people that maybe could do with that support and need that help.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it's certainly in the way that women want to be treated and want to be spoken to and want to be given the space, that's changed.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's changed a lot, you know, over the last sort of like even 10 years.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: I would say, you know, that women aren't accepting being put down now and um are more more vocal about standing up and and saying, no, you're not gonna shout me down.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's so, so important.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_04: But we I feel like we really need to try to find that space.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_06: We are in a situation at the moment where there is polarity coming in on the back of social media, on the back of certain influencers who are seeking to divide us and seeking to gain from that division.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_06: And this is where our communities are so important to pull us back together and remember that we're the majority here, and we shouldn't lose our voice on the basis of a few voices out there.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: I am all for allyship and all of this, but what makes women's voice to not be heard, it is the system of patriarchy and misogynistic uh society.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: But the reality is, and the fact is, they have more power over us.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: And why we talk about women's voices is because of that, because even if a man not being educated or being educated, they still have from any different like background or culture or whatever, there's a hierarchy, we know that we know that white male has more power and voice than white uh black or brown man.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I know all of this, but the privilege for being a man and being able to have a voice is more than being a woman.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I agree.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, we're we're always on the daily battling the inequality, aren't we?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_06: And that's exactly why we have created these women's spaces and non-binary and trans spaces.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_06: Excellent point, Mina.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, in a way, it's just to continue what what you just mentioned, because I I've I I'm always surprised how very often we have to start from square one again and we see sort of patriarchy in even the little ones, you know, like the sort of old-fashioned relations still happening.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_10: And and then because I'm thinking that we have, you know, we have a space just like what you said between men and women as well.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_10: So it's so there's a multiple already, which should help us to break down patriarchy more quickly.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_10: But some things go also the other way because feminism isn't as vocal as it was in some way.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_10: So it's kind of is it one step forward, two steps back, or is it do we oscillate, or how how do we how do we all move forward?
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_10: Because uh yeah, I'm sometimes baffled how we have to start all over again and with which with battles we thought we'd we'd already fought.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_14: Supporting is absolutely it is sounds like again somebody's voice, like it is like a power.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, if you support somebody any through any kind of situation, you gain the other person's voice, you gain the power, or you can give power to the person.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_14: We have a very lovely example is in front of us, like Adriana.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_14: Uh she is supporting people and guiding people.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_14: It found she on that in this situation, she can find herself also.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_14: Who am I?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_14: What am I doing?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_14: If you are supporting, you can find yourself also.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_14: It doesn't mean that you are supporting some people, they are thinking like they are selfish, uh, just they are uh supporting uh some people without any reason.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_14: It doesn't mean if you are supporting, you can get more and more on that from that person.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, that's I'm saying supporting is a war to give power and to gain wise.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just when we look at all of that, those themes, they are as as you said, they are all connected.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't give, you don't gain, if you don't ask for a support, or if you don't support someone, then you can.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't use your voice.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I think some people, like people that work with charities, communities, or people that kind of being well known as like an activist, or like for example, for me, I think I was the only person from my country that people knew, and the only person from the community that people knew in college and in this area, and I was invited to every everything to actually have a voice on behalf of that community.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this brings responsibility.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, of course.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: There's a responsibility of it's not just I use my voice and I'm I'm leaving.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: It brings some responsibility if you're someone that other people look up to or look at to.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that you're an idol, I was an idol, or I am an idol, or I'm not saying that I'm a very famous or powerful person.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: I I get gain this power from the community and people that gave me that platform.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: Also, it brings responsibility.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what Cynthia is doing by having her center, or what I do, or what Tina does, or you with your podcast, is just because we have that privilege and we we gain that much of the power that now we have a responsibility to actually speak up and use our voice to help and support other, especially women.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I think also with my podcast, what I've found what I think is really important is to give voices to people who don't really see themselves as someone who would necessarily have something to say.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_06: And I think there's so much power in having those conversations because actually it's those grassroots stories that really impact us the most and really speak to our hearts and we can relate to a lot more.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the most powerful thing, like you see like those uh very important people or those celebrities or whatever, but I think we can resonate with them.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: But when somebody from the community, from the heart of like that grassroot uh comes and talk, then we say, Oh, I can resonate with this, I can see myself like that.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think every exactly each person's a story is unique and can be powerful and have something for someone that can resonate with it.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_15: I think that's a really poignant point about having the privilege to use your voice, to use your platform, to speak for your community, or to offer support to your community, and with that comes great responsibility.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_15: I think that I think that there's so much to unpick in that these grassroots stories that Sakanya speaks of are such powerful learning tools and really allow us to gain insight and open our minds to different experiences and provide ways of unlearning things that were have already been socially conditioned and inspiring us and influencing change and changing mindsets and attitudes and unpicking the fear that you know, the rhetoric of fear mongery that we see.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_15: However, even in my own little brain and my own little world, I can get overwhelmed trying to feel like I'm not doing enough to fix everything and all the ills of society, and it's so easy to burn out and you know, actually not provide any support for anybody.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_15: So I just think that that's a whole topic that is really loaded with all kinds of like you know, self expectations and the thing that what you know, what we put on ourselves to the expectations we put on ourselves, and how we really need to honour ourselves and and our own kind of baggage and experience, and recognize that what.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_15: we do is coming from a really uh positive and good place and we can't get it right all of the time as much as we might try, but people really respect and love those that do put themselves on a platform.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_15: Yeah, it comes with great responsibility.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_04: I just feel like I want to have these chats more often, you know, I just feel that so much there that we um could be and should be talking about more and more.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, really hope that we can find more opportunities, create more opportunities where we can we can do it.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_06: Giving voice to gain power, giving up silence to gain belonging and giving support to gain community.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's been a really powerful conversation.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_06: I hope you all agree.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah so I'd like to invite you all to get into Slido and drop in your International Women's Day 2026 commitment.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_06: What are you reflecting on on the back of our conversation today?
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_06: What do you intentionally plan to do today?
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_06: So maybe that's giving more voice giving more credit or maybe giving less of what drains your battery.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_06: So for me I am going to continue to practice giving more of my skills to help someone else gain their voice.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_11: This person's International Women's Day give to gain commitment is self-care mine was to uh say no more to things that dilute my energy and to use my energy more wisely to help people that are within my radar to support and we talked about you know women in that we find in different situations.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_11: Like I work sometimes with homeless women women who have got addictions and it's not only signposting but have that listening ear to help them to find their voice and to provide that safe space for them to uh be able to bask in their glory.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_14: Mine was very simple to share all the knowledge that I've gained all the information that I've gotten through my networks to cascade it to people who have no idea of what is going on especially to people who are just coming in so it's to just share knowledge mentorship mentor young uh young leaders or signpost them to different people who have done well for themselves so that if they want to go down that road they have someone to look up to like I had uh mine was support and again wise iskers I love is to gain our skill to be in a community to help each other to be honest with each other to introduce each other to everyone to be like one family yeah that was my point I think for me um both what you said to be able to say no and I think I am getting so much better in that and also sharing what I learned my skills without even ex without expecting anything back for free for those people that they can't actually access it or they they are not able to pay for it.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I know as women if we want to get a stronger if if we want to have our voice it is so important to ask for the price of what we give as well.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_03: It is kind of empowerment because I think we are sometimes really shy to ask that my price is that so this is so important especially that I'm self-employed.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_03: It was another thing and being authentic being myself not trying to be someone else.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just said I'll be um intentional in supporting other women to raise their voice and actually that gives me pleasure and to to help other people and a bit like with what Mina just said because I'm self-employed as well and that that as women we we are reluctant to say for this service to say it's cost X and we're susceptible to being oh can't you do it for this and can't you do it for that.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It takes courage to say because actually if you drop your price you're kind of devaluing what you're doing and offering and that's something that societally as women we are sort of it's ingrained in us.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_00: My sort of key is helping people helping women to raise their voice which gives me pleasure yeah I mean it gives me so much pleasure to be able to do the work that I do.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's not uh some people think that it's quite a selfless task but it's not because I'm getting so much from it myself you know it really is a two-way street but for me I really want to commit to giving myself more self-care like Mina you know I think that I don't say no often enough and I don't always say what I need as clearly as I maybe should to be able to to do something and just to be able to really look after myself look after my health sometimes I don't value that enough I often don't value that enough and that's something that I really really need to do.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah similar to what you've just said I don't do enough self-care I have a habit of saying yeah I'll do this to everything just because I like to try different things but to get the best person out of you sometimes you do need to say no so that you're supporting the people at your best around you to to uh to do that.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_09: So yeah a bit more self-care I think.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah everything starts and stops with us doesn't it my first one worked my second one didn't my first one was courage and um my second one would have been be truthful.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_10: Then I changed it to be outspoken because I thought be truthful was a bit difficult because it's like as if we're not you know like truth as opposed to lies and then I thought no I don't want to give that impression but then I because I meant it in a different way and that's interesting as well about being misunderstood and and at the same time I think the best advice is is actually written on this on these old Victorian houses because oh they say you know buildings they say take courage and I thought yeah we should take that into and then the other thing I saw and when one an old building to thine own self be true and then so these old like stuffy Victorian actually make sense for us.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote promote self-love and I think loving yourself is is something I want to find out more about and help others to do it because it's it's the reason behind a lot of the problems in the world that people don't love themselves and aren't confident in their own skin.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So they take it out in others in so many ways.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_05: So I'd love to take on that challenge to find out how how you can do it love yourself more it's a big one right to read out some of Buzz words from the WordCloud one of them is helping courage and support big ones something about uh energy I think we've had before understanding how you give out your energy sharing and expectations and opportunities um something about voices and skills thank you thank you so much for saying self-love and it's something that we get to learn the hard way sometimes especially being with my unhealthy lifestyle sometime back I had to learn the hard way that I need to give myself more love because you're so right if you don't love yourself enough you become a danger to the people around you and to some extent I was I was not loving myself enough and I was pouring out of an empty cup and I was drinked I was overwhelmed I was sad I was angry you know any negative thing you can think of under the sun that was who I was when I did not love myself enough and I thank God and Adrian you saw me in therapy I did a lot of therapy to take care of my like I took myself out of that with therapy and counseling I had to do that and I it went on for weeks and it took someone else to actually tell me you need to love yourself or you're destroying yourself.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you so much for saying that loving yourself is very easy Adrian if you want to learn I'm just an example and for Timo like no you can't love yourself sometimes you just you're taking care of other people you can I took my power back I take responsibility for anything I did wrong during that time I've learned my lessons and the one of the things that I would want to cascade is the bad things I learned when I did bad things so that people don't do those things.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah building community thanks everyone that was really powerful thank you for sharing so to wrap up then I would like to just share some stuff with you about International Women's Day.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_06: So we started our whole session today talking about giving to gain is not about giving more of yourself away it's about giving intentionally so that what we gain is shared, sustainable and powerful.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_06: So some facts about International Women's Day and why it's important why is it a celebration and a reckoning so it celebrates the social economical cultural and political achievements of women and as I said before that also includes our non-binary community and trans community it forces a spotlight onto the unfinished work inequality in pay safety health outcomes representation unpaid labor leadership education and bodily autonomy so the list is long it's a reminder the rights have never simply been gifted they have been organized for demanded and defended so International Women's Day takes place on the 8th of March every year.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_06: Its roots lie in early 20th century labor and suffrage movements when women organized around working conditions, voting rights and dignity over time it has grown into a global movement of reflection, activism and solidarity.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_06: In the UK context it connects a long lineage of struggle including the suffrage movement led by figures such as Emmeline Pankhurst.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_06: At its heart it's about equality sorry it's about equity justice and recognizing lived experience.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_06: So I also want to share with you why inclusion of trans women and non-binary people matters.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_06: So if the purpose of International Women's Day is to address gender bias and gender-based inequality and violence it must center those most impacted by it.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_06: So trans women experience high levels of discrimination, harassment, violence precisely because they are perceived and targeted as women excluding them from a day about gender justice contradicts the stated aims of challenging gender-based harm.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_06: Non-binary people also face discrimination because they do not conform to rigid gender norms and International Women's Day often examines how narrow expectations from gender roles harm people including non-binary people strengthenens that analysis rather than weakening it.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_06: So in practical terms as far as inclusion goes we can look at using language that recognizes diverse identities inviting trans and non-binary speakers into conversations ensuring safeguarding policies are clear and respectful listening to lived experience without defensiveness so where do I even begin?
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_06: When I walked in I carried a question I hadn't quite resolved.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_06: Could we take a theme that had been circulated by a marketing company a theme that for many of the women in that room landed with a complicated weight and turn it into something that actually served us something rooted in rights, in justice, in the reality of women's lives rather than the polish of a corporate campaign well from the moment those women started speaking the answer was an emphatic yes what happened in that room was a reclaiming we took give to gain and we held it differently we flipped it.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_06: We stripped away the transactional version I give therefore I gain and we found something underneath it that was older truer and much more powerful we found transformation I felt it I think we all felt it there was a point in that conversation where the energy in the room shifted where it stopped being a panel discussion and became something entirely different something alive a new wave of current running through all of us women non-binary and trans women who had carried so much across borders across languages across years of being told their voices were too much or not enough sitting together and finding that actually in this room they were exactly enough in fact more than enough this happened because we chose to flip the narrative we refused to let someone else define our conversation Mina talked about giving herself permission to be free quietly and privately and how that single internal act unlocked everything else belonging community chosen family all of it flowed from that one moment of giving to herself Cynthia ran at negative 5% and still showed up because the women around her would not let her disappear that is community doing exactly what community is supposed to do catching you before you hit the ground and then walking alongside you while you find your feet again.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_06: Fatima showed us that sometimes the most courageous form of giving is choosing silence, choosing dignity over retaliation and being proven right.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_06: And Emma reminded us quietly precisely unflinchingly why none of this is abstract why the work is not done why these rooms these conversations these communities are not a luxury they are a lifeline.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_06: This is why holding these spaces matters not just once a year on International Women's Day regularly consistently with intention and welcome because women need places where they do not have to perform their okayness where they can say the true thing even when it's hard where they will be held not judged where their story however messy however unfinished is enough to be worth telling here are some of the questions for you to sit with when did giving become something that was expected of you rather than chosen by you and what would it feel like to reclaim that difference?
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_06: Is there a silence you are currently keeping that is costing you belonging and is there one person just one you might be ready to break it with?
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_06: Think about the women who have held space for you even briefly even without knowing it have you told them and who might need you to be that person for them right now.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_06: To Carlisle International Women's Group and to Woman Up thank you thank you for the work you do every single week to keep these communities alive and growing thank you for the coffee mornings the open doors the introductions the soft landings you create for women who arrive here with nothing but a whole pile of courage.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_06: You are doing something that matters enormously even on the days when it might not feel like it.
• 1:24:35
  SPEAKER_06: To Sam, Tina and Adrian thank you for inviting me to host this panel.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_06: I don't take that lightly sharing space with these women non-binary and trans women being trusted to hold that conversation witnessing what happened when 14 people opened up with honesty that is a privilege I will carry for a long time.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for the work you do.
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for keeping showing up thank you for being exactly who you are to every woman non-binary and trans woman who spoke in that room Mina, Cynthia Tina, Adrian, Fatima, Emma, Sam and Marie and the rest of the audience you gave something of yourselves and I'm ever thankful.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_06: And what we all gained from it is something none of us could have predicted walking in.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_06: That's the flip that is the power that is give to gain on our own terms.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_06: If today's episode has moved you please leave a review on my website Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you listen to this today.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_06: It takes 30 seconds and genuinely helps this podcast reach people it was made for share this with someone today a friend a colleague a woman in your life who's carrying something quietly sometimes the greatest gift is pressing play and saying I thought of you.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_06: A huge heartfelt thank you to a band called Persimmon our wonderful music partner for season three for the sounds that hold this space I'm Sakania and this is Sakania the podcast and I'll see you on the next walk.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_06: Until then keep giving intentionally keep holding space for each other keep flipping the narrative and keep showing up even when your battery is le running low especially then twenties in the twenties spent already I'm in my twenties in the twenties full and empty keep it steady wondering when are we gonna be there already waiting patiently I'm acting out in memories easy the world of uncaring made me think I really miss the bee