Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Hold On, How Is The Sex Denying Partner The Victim?

Transcript

Hold On, How Is The Sex Denying Partner The Victim? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

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  Hi everybody. And welcome to the doctors.
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  Psych mom show. Today we're going to be talking
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  about the situation where the person who denies the physical
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  intimacy acts as though they are the victim.
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  And this is a difficult situation for anybody, who's on
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  the other side was being denied, the physical intimacy and
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  therefore doesn't really understand how it could go both
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  ways. You know that the person could
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  get what they want, but also be the victim.
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  So I will explain that before that.
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  Please do subscribe. Because my most recent episode
• 0:37
  was on how the more successful you are frequently the more your
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  kids don't empathize with you so that is going to be relevant for
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  many men and some women. I specifically address more of
• 0:51
  the male experience with that one, but some women have had
• 0:54
  that issue as well where the child just does not perceive you
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  as somebody that they have to empathize with because you they
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  think you have no cares in the world.
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  Anyway, moving on. The topic at hand here.
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  So I work with the situation a lot and it's really interesting
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  because, you know, over the years, feminism has changed just
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  like any kind of philosophy or political ideology changes and
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  grows and whatever. And I remember reading some of
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  my mother's old feminists books in, you know, that were written
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  in the 70s and so forth. And she and one of them was a
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  woman's room by Marilyn French, and that was a feminist class.
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  Cick. And I remember one of these
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  scenes was that the man denied sex to the woman and this was
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  considered very bad, you know, that she was being denied sex by
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  her husband and she wanted it and he wouldn't do it.
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  And to the point that the gynecologist told her that she
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  was all atrophied down there because she didn't get to have
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  enough sex, right? And so he was denying her sex
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  and this was thought to be terrible and it is terrible,
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  right? I mean, you know, it's not good
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  to be in a sexless. Marriage.
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  And she was a relatively young woman and it was considered even
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  worse because of that. So, fine I get it.
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  She wants to have sex. You can't have sex.
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  She was victimized right and that situation.
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  So but now it's flipped, right? And of course this is not to say
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  that I'm not a feminist, I'm a feminist.
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  Feminists are people who think that men and women should have
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  equal rights. Thus I am a feminist.
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  And I've never yet met any client who does not agree that
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  you men and women should have equal rights.
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  I guess those people if they They just don't seek me out but
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  anyway, they probably would not seek out a female therapist, but
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  anyway, so it is it is definitely true that the woman
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  in that book was being victimized in a sense.
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  She was the victim of not being able to get what you wanted now.
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  Nowadays, but much more frequently men are in that
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  situation where they are not getting the sex that they want,
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  but somehow the woman is still victimized.
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  And like, not all the time, like a lot of women, definitely
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  understand that that's bad for the guy and she has empathy and
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  she tries to work on the situation.
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  Okay, fine. But there's some situations
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  where the woman acts like a victim, even though she's the
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  one that's saying, they can't have any intimacy.
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  She acts like a victim because she acts like a victim with
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  everything. Now, this is not every woman,
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  but it's some women and I most frequently.
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  See this dynamic in the narcissist, borderline
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  relationship. And you can go back to my
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  podcast on the narcissistic borderline relationships.
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  I think that I see even just titled that.
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  And in this situation, the woman is struggling with symptoms of
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  borderline personality and she's very moody and irritable and
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  paranoid and she's terrified of Abandonment but she's also
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  terrified of intimacy. So the classic book about
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  borderline personality is called.
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  I hate. You don't leave me so men who
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  are drawn to such women to rescuing these James Olsen says
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  distress are usually narcissists their narcissistic and I know
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  narcissist is overused and I frequently talked about that but
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  there are some men that are narcissistic and some women as
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  well but in the case where I'm talking about where the woman
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  did not rise all intimacy but yet always perceives herself as
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  the constant victim in the situation.
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  This usually I see this Dynamic with the male narcissistic
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  partner and the female borderline partner and what
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  really goes on is that she is Truly.
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  And this is not most women again, not most women, but in
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  this situation, truly never happy.
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  She's never going to be happy because she has deep deep issues
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  with intimacy. So she's denying him intimacy,
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  but she's not happy like the average woman, if they don't
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  want to have sex, and then they don't have sex.
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  At least they think few dodged a bullet, I'm not having sex.
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  All right, so at least I'm not the victim, you know, like, I
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  guess he must be but I mean, I can take care of himself.
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  That's the most common average scenario.
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  I see the woman. Thanks.
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  Alright. I don't want to have sex.
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  Okay good we're not having sex very frequently.
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  Thus, I have won this game, you know, I win kind of not that she
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  feels wonderful, just struggling with a million issues, probably
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  herself, but at least in this domain, can't fault him.
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  I don't want to have sex, we're not having sex so the US, you
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  know, check and mate, you know, like I mean, did it and I hope
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  he's taking care of himself in some other.
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  Way, many of these women wish that, you know they had drive,
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  but they don't and that's it, you know, so he can masturbate
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  periodically. Maybe they'll have sex but at
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  least she doesn't feel victimized by the situation, the
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  woman that takes a tremendous victim tone.
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  Despite denying the guy all intimacy that usually has
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  features of Personality Disorder because she's getting what she
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  wants, but she's not really because she's so deeply deeply
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  unhappy that Nothing is really what you want.
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  What is, borderline related to its related to a very
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  invalidating upbringing as sensitive person with a very
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  invalidating upbringing. Often abuse or neglect, and it
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  doesn't have to be physical abuse.
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  It could be emotional abuse. Certainly could be sexual abuse
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  and he sort of abuse like that. With a sensitive person can
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  create some terms of borderline personality and this is somebody
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  who's terrified of Abandonment, but also terrified of intimacy,
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  so it can't be closed. But they don't want to be
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  separate. Whereas, again, in contrast, a
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  lot of the other more normative couples.
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  That I see the woman kind of at some point, when they're having
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  a lot of conflict, she could take or leave the marriage.
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  She honestly hope sometimes that he leaves, you know, because
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  she's not happy. And I write about this and talk
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  about this and like the ten signs your wife's really not
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  that into you, but in the situation with the borderline,
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  she's constantly saying that she's the victim of the man
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  somehow and Lee you can't see how, what usually happens is
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  that he's not having sex with her.
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  He's very upset about it. But also he's bending over
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  backwards and all these other ways.
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  She usually has a lot of other illnesses and a lot of other
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  problems and a lot of other miseries that she has.
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  And he's always trying to put out these fires and still be the
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  rescuing night and nothing that he does is ever good enough and
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  there's constant conflict. There's yelling, there's crying.
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  There's a lot of drama with With in this situation.
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  So, the woman who's a professional victim, in this
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  sense, has a lot of drama. The guy's very dramatic to
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  because he keeps thinking, somehow that there's going to be
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  some way to fix this situation, which is why he hasn't left yet
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  with younger children frequently.
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  He doesn't leave because he's scared to leave the children
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  with the woman. And remember, he's not an angel
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  because he himself is a narcissist.
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  So he's pretty annoying and it goes into the dynamic that I
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  talk about in my podcast and my post mr.
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  Perfect. And his crazy wife.
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  This is Extreme example of mr. Perfect.
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  And his crazy wife where, you know, she really cannot COPE in
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  the world. And it's constantly miserable
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  due to unresolved childhood trauma.
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  She's she doesn't want sex but yet she doesn't want him to
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  leave. She doesn't want to love him but
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  she doesn't want him to go where as contrasted to regular more
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  normative marital dysfunction if the woman doesn't want to have
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  sex. And she doesn't want to be
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  close, and she doesn't love you. She usually wants to live kind
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  of a separate life. And just kind of get through
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  when the kids are older, so you can keep an intact family for
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  them. Like, she's not also making
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  drama about how little you love her and like all this stuff
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  people that are in dramatic situations, where women also
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  won't sleep with them, this is really a big sign that there are
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  some personality level issues involved and narcissism and
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  borderline are both the cluster B personality disorders, the
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  dramatic ones and other one is history onic and so they
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  Interlock, it's what we call interlocking pathologies.
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  So if you think that your spouse is borderline but you're not
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  narcissistic, then you probably ought to introspect a little bit
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  more because it's the same as insecure attachment.
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  Like if your partner is preoccupied, you're probably
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  avoided. If your spouse is borderline,
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  you probably have some narcissistic traits you know and
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  a CO varies. If they're like a flagrant
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  borderline and you put them with been with them for years and
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  years and this dramatic tempestuous.
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  Crazy shit. Then you're likely more
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  floridly. Narcissistic.
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  Eric. If they could have a few
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  borderline traits, you probably have a few narcissistic traits.
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  They just interlocked. Because who's going to go for
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  the woman who's a constant victim in the honeymoon stage?
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  He was a victim of everybody else.
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  Everybody else was bad. Everybody else was the exes were
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  terrible. The family was terrible.
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  Everything was terrible. The job was terrible.
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  You know, her health was terrible, the world was
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  terrible. Everything was unfair.
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  Who's going to be drawn to coming in and fixing that
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  situation instead of running miles and miles away, a guy with
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  narcissistic tendencies, CeCe, you know who thinks that he can
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  he uniquely is the one that's going to come in and make
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  everything better whereas just like with attachment.
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  So the securely attached in this case, the securely attached not
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  narcissistic guy would be like, holy shit, I am running away and
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  blocking her number because it's dramatic crazy.
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  Shit is not, she has no relationship with her family.
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  She got no relationship with the exes.
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  Everything is crazy. She had all this past insanity
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  and her relationships. All of these men did wrong by
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  her. How could that possibly be
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  right? You know like how could it be
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  that this won't turn to me and that I won't be the next one
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  that she says was a horrible person.
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  But if your narcissistic then you can put that all to rest and
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  you could say well she just didn't meet me yet.
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  You know when I can outwork this problem and I'll think this
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  problem, you know, and I will be different.
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  So then he went up in this sort of situation.
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  So these are situations where people Me it's also much more
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  normal right for people to say, okay, I didn't have sex with my
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  wife and like a year and we don't barely talk really to each
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  other and we barely connect and we kind of living Separate
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  Lives. All right?
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  That makes sense. Right?
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  I mean she doesn't want to sleep with you, she's obviously Not
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  That Into You. There's some shit going on,
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  maybe unresolved empathic ruptures, maybe she's not
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  attracted to you, I don't know. But at least that's more normal
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  the woman who won't sleep with you but also wants to fight with
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  you all the time. It doesn't make any sense right
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  leg. It really doesn't make any sense
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  unless there's personality disorder stuff there.
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  If she cares so much about you that she's fighting with you
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  constantly, why doesn't some of that care go over into some sort
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  of intimacy? It's far more normal.
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  Quite honestly, for, you know, the people that fight a lot to
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  have sex a lot. They're just, they're just, you
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  know, high temperature people, you know, they're very, you
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  know, exciting people. I mean, it's crazy sure.
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  Once they have kids involved, it's traumatic.
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  The children and they got a stop.
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  That's when they come to couples counseling, etcetera.
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  But frequently to people I get that come in that are fighting
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  all the time. We're also having sex pretty
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  frequently, you know because they're just they're just these
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  people that boil over and they're more dramatic but this
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  unique situation where the women were like refuses, you come
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  sexually and there's all these reasons and a lot of reasons
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  have to do with unidentified illnesses and and it's just like
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  this whole like crazy conundrum and somehow, you're not getting
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  laid, but you you're Trying all the time to make her happy and
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  she's crying. And it's like this just crazy
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  dramatic shit. This is the narcissistic
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  borderline relationship. So you got to think about, you
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  know, why you're staying in this.
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  And deep Psychotherapy could help you understand?
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  I mean, I'll give you spoiler alert.
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  You got a parent like this, that was never able to be pleased,
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  that you were always trying to be a good boy for and that
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  you're always trying to impress, you know, and now you're trying
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  to do it here, you know, and it's going to be just as
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  impossible to This woman has to please, whoever whichever parent
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  you were not able to please in the first place but so this is
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  usually what I see but overall there is also a shift as I
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  introduced earlier with my discussion of the women's room.
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  There was also a shift in that women who do not have sex.
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  Also feel victimized by the by the asking of the sex, like
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  that's also being victimized now, is like the fact that he
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  even wants sex is kind of Of too much, you know, that used to be
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  like not a thing that would happen.
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  Like people like men didn't get blamed for wanting to have sex
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  nowadays societally. If a guy says that he wants to
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  have sex basically in the absence of of less than
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  complete, Mutual adoration and overwhelming, love like
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  something out of a romance novel that he's a piece of shit.
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  Obviously I don't condone that Viewpoint because that's insane.
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  You know what? Man or woman with a healthy sex
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  drive, that does not make you a bad person.
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  But so yes, it is more common overall for a partner to feel
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  victimized just by their own Partners, desire.
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  If they don't happen to share that desire, but in a situation
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  where your partner is, is constantly victimized by
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  everything and you're doing everything for them constantly.
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  But yet, somehow, you're still not getting laid, then you need
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  to refer back to my North. This is borderline podcast and
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  therapy can really help you. Like if you're in a situation
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  where like if you think about this is there's a video camera
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  in your house with people at your work.
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  Be like, just like fucking astonished with your their jaw
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  on the floor at the craziness of your marriage.
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  If so you ought to be in therapy to figure out why you stay and
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  also of course, think about what your children are observing, but
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  this whole idea of a tempestuous dramatic relationship in which
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  there's one victim And it's the one who's getting not to have
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  sex. That is this is a very, very big
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  red flag, you know? That's something really, really
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  tremendously. Wrong is happening.
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  So anyhow, I do not know if this recorded because I look down.
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  I didn't see the right number but I'm gonna hope for the best.
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  And if this was useful to you guys and do refer back to that
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  narcissus, borderline podcast and hopefully this gave you some
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  interesting information. Ian and I will talk to you soon.