Latest / Weirdly Effective: How Creative Businesses Build Experiences / Arielle Nissenblatt’s 30-Day Challenge Added 1,000 Subscribers

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Arielle Nissenblatt’s 30-Day Challenge Added 1,000 Subscribers · Weirdly Effective: How Creative Businesses Build Experiences

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: The best creative businesses don't just sell a thing, they build an experience around it to delight their audience.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Think a kid that you can't wait to unbox, a Kickstarter that has you freaking out, or a loyalty club that actually gives you stuff you want.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is Weirdly Effective, the podcast where I sit down with the people who built those experiences and we dive right into it.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: How they came up with the idea, why it works, and most importantly, what their audience did next.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Megan, co-founder of Fat Cap, and this is a show all about weirdly effective strategies.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Arielle, thank you so much for coming on today.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to chat with you because you were one of the first ones to throw your hat in the ring for this podcast.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you had what seemed like a really interesting strategy that you were testing out this summer.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh, I'm really excited to be here.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this is my first time officially talking about this strategy that I tried out this summer on a podcast.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll be cool to hear it come to words.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: For me, and hopefully for your listeners.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was so nerdy that I was like, oh, tell me more.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um for those who don't know you, um, do you mind introducing yourself?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm Arielle.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I am a podcast person.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've been in the podcast space since 2017.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I write a podcast recommendation newsletter that goes out every Sunday, every Sunday for 10 years, nine and a half years.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: That the premise of it is that each week is curated by a different person.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone can curate a list.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a podcast yourself, you can include one of your own episodes as part of that list.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's my pride and joy.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love writing that newsletter.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I also write another newsletter that goes out on Mondays called Podcast Plunge.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is more of an industry-focused newsletter where I reproduce the press releases that I that I receive throughout the week, podcast-related, media related.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's more for people that are in the industry or are curious about the latest launches and tech.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I do a lot of work with creators.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I work with networks and I work with independent creators who are interested in podcasting, who have started a podcast, but their show is not necessarily doing what they want it to do, or they they've hit uh they've hit a plateau and they want to figure out what the next step is.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I will listen to the show, look at the social media, look at the website, watch the show if there's a video component and try to get them out of the rut of whatever it is.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's a content problem, sometimes it's a marketing problem.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times there's a lot of low-hanging fruit that needs to be needs to be picked, and a fresh set of eyes is really helpful.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I do a lot of creator education and networking events for people that make things on the internet, a lot of podcasters, but increasingly a lot of newsletter writers and people who make social things and people that do video, because increasingly everybody's doing all of that.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that yes, the introduction had to be so long because when I started looking into you, I was like, What did she do?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, she never sleeps.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: But also when I mentioned your name to other people, the praise that kept coming up was, Oh, you're talking to the queen of podcasts.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh good, you know, like no pressure.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So kind.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: No pressure on me either.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you so obviously you were steeped in the world of podcasting.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so this new venture that you did, you told me that you ran a 30-day challenge for your audience in July.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious, like, what made you want to like run the challenge in the first place?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like what was the challenge for you to do?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll zoom out a little bit so that we understand who the audience is.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh back when Twitter was a thing, I was big on Twitter, podcast Twitter specifically.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it, I miss it every day.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure it exists, but does it really exist anymore?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not really.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I've transferred some of my thoughts and writings to LinkedIn.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not exactly the same, but I have figured out how to, you know, speak uh to the people that I want to speak to.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that coupled with speaking at podcast events or guesting on other podcasts means that I've got a lot of people and people that read my newsletter.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a lot of people that I that I reach out to on a weekly basis.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I've also been on and off doing creator-focused online events and sometimes in-person networking and um creator-focused events.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: In I live in Brooklyn, New York, in the New York area, uh, is where I do these events.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've realized that I love doing events, whether they're online or in person.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just love the everything about it from coming up with the concept, figuring out the lesson plan, making sure it was actually useful for the people that are doing it, but also the marketing of it is fun for me.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Figuring out who the collaborative partners are are fun for me.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So uh about two years ago, we're recording this now in October of 2026.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: In November of 2024, I did an event with two friends that also work in podcast audience development, development, and marketing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, why don't the three of us get together and just do a session on how people can grow their podcast?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: What's working in 2024?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Which at the time it was 2024.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we were able, and I and I charged tickets.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I charged for I charged$15.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time I was like, who would pay for this?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But also$15 is so reasonable.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get a lot of information.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I was so new to this game of, you know, you should charge what you're worth.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Money.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And people paid, and like I was able to pay my speakers a good amount of money for their time, and I loved it, but I didn't continue doing events on any regular basis until this past March.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was at a conference in Latvia.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Radio Days Europe in Latvia, and I was having a conversation with a friend who I'd been to a lot of conferences with, and she was like, What if you just did events?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: You love teaching, you love speaking.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: What if you did events more often?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, Okay, yeah, that sounds like that sounds like a plan.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let me let me test out what that could look like that week, or right around that time, is when Beehive announced that they were getting into podcasts.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I shot my shot and I reached out to Tyler, the CEO of Beehive, and I said, Hey, Tyler, do you remember me when I used to work at Squadcast or remote recording platform back in 2021 or 2022?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: We did a webinar together on why podcasters need newsletters.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to come and talk about this?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's essentially this conversation 2.0, right?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's why newsletter writers need podcasts or kind of a vice versa situation.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was my first big event where I tried a collaborative approach where I hopefully grabbed his audience and brought them to me.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I brought my audience and brought them to him.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And since then, I've had somewhat of a strategy for putting on events.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's there's a request from the community that I'm building.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: They want to learn about X, Y, and Z.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's I'm getting this question a lot in my consulting sessions and with my clients.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I imagine more people have this question.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let me reach out to them and see if, or let me reach out to the wider group and see if there's appetite for a lesson here.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't know how to teach the thing, I'll reach out to somebody else to teach it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been really fun building this platform.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I built a website for it.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have been building the events on Luma.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've been advertising for them on social media.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've been working with uh Pod News is a really great newsletter, and they have an events submission platform.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I love when I get featured in their events platform.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a few other places like that that I've reached out to.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: But then in June, I was working on promoting uh a few upcoming events that I was doing.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought to myself, I want to have some sort of lead gen situation.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want to get a lot of people in and then figure out who those people are because I was already figuring out that like where my price point was that made sense for these events.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I found that if I was charging$12, it was hard for me to get people to come to events.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if I was charging$44, the events were filling up a lot faster for some reason.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of that has to do with people want to value, they want to value themselves, they want to value the time.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's more perceived value the more expensive it is.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: But what's the balance there?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, okay, let me do a free challenge and really figure out who are the people that would come in, who are the people that would come in from this free challenge.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then let me figure out, you know, obviously this was not the only reason.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the people that are in this challenge that I'm very much still in community with, I don't want you to think that like I'm just trying to figure out how much money I could get from you.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it is a business, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, let me figure out if I meet new people through this challenge, if I'm able to engage people that are already in my community and how they might, how they might want to stay in touch with me.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, really kind of I won't, I won't say willy-nilly, but uh, I I it was a fly by the seat of my pants situation, which you will find is the case for me.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know what's funny is like I have professional colleagues who will say, Ariel, you're so organized.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I am the most type B person on the planet.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I book the wrong flights like all the time.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I the mistakes that I make are crazy, but you just don't see me making them on LinkedIn.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I have some fun with that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I feel like even though it might seem willy-nilly, and yes, goodness knows, like I build many things like as the plane is flying.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it does like there is that gut.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: There is that gut that's like, I think this will work.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want to try it.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: But also sometimes there's just a time crunch.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're like, what's the minimum viable?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I put it out as scrappily and quickly and cheaply as I can, right?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just to get those results.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was thinking about this idea, my initial thought was, okay, I'll I'll put the event up on Luma, I will get people to subscribe, I will either send out the daily email that I'll explain in a second via Luma, or I'll download the email addresses and move them over to, I'm using kit for this newsletter and create the process in that way.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what ended up happening is I was looking for partners early on to help spread the word.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what I did is I reached out to pretty much any podcast-related entity that I could think of.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it was other podcast marketing people.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I reached out to podcast hosting providers, I reached out to podcast editing services, I reached out to podcast newsletter writers, anybody that I knew that I have a good relationship with that I thought might have an audience that would be interested in telling that that might be interested in this challenge.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked them if they would be interested in being launch partners with me, which meant send me your logo, send me um, send me a link.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put you on my website, I'm gonna announce you in my social uh channels, and I'm gonna say um thank you to um thank you to podcast tech stack, a newsletter that I read, for for sharing with their audience uh the launch the the 30-day challenge from Well It Depends Labs.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And in exchange, Cody at the the podcasting tech stack featured me in his newsletter and it brought me a bunch of new people who were interested in this challenge.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mentioned pod news before.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I got featured in pod news actually not as an event, but as like a story, as the top story in late June.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge was set to start in July 1st, and that brought me 300 plus people.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So knowing who your audience is and knowing the levers that you can pull, not relying on them, but but being aware that these are the big ones is definitely something that I have figured out over the years.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at about 300 people before that, and then I got around 300 more, and then a couple, you know, tens more trickled in throughout the the rest of July.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it it really all came together then.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and my thought initially was it's gonna be a challenge to help podcasters become better hosts.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking, I I know a lot of people have uh confidence issues behind the mic, or they don't necessarily know that when you're before you press record, like like you and I were doing, chat a little bit, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like get get comfortable, let me know that um we that that you can pause and you can retake something.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or Arielle, if you make a mistake, that's okay, just say the sentence again.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people might need a kick in the pants when it comes to that, or just to know that that's a possibility as a podcast host.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So my initial thought was this is this will be a podcast power-up challenge, podcast host power-up challenge.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It evolved a little bit because I brought Beehive on as a partner, and then it became more marketing and newsletter focused.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had a few other partners who came on and wanted to do more podcast guesting related tips.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So then it became more marketing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up splitting the challenge.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: The first week was about craft, the second week was about distribution, the third week was about um marketing and monetization, and the fourth week was about motivation and next steps and how to figure out how to spend your time because I just gave you so many tips and you can't possibly do it all.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was awesome because I, you know, I didn't have the Slack channel in mind when I started.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then I was like, you know what?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let me people are gonna want to talk about this thing.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't just want it to be a a siloed situation where you get the email and you maybe do the thing.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I optionally said, if you want to join the Slack channel, great.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: 50% of people came over to the Slack channel.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that was great.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, it's Megan.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Quick one.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Everything you've heard so far today has been a live case study for what we do here at FatCap.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we build clever, personality-packed brands that attract audiences and keep them coming back for more.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you've wondered what we could do for your business, click the link below and schedule discovery call.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get back to the interview.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you were like, I I it's almost like a sponsorship, except it's for like reach.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like, you talk about me, I will talk about you.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I will put your logo here and it's like a sponsorship, except they don't have to pay.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: But instead, they have to share it, which in this case was even more important for you to grow it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I also love that like you said it was like willy-nilly, but actually you were accommodating to the people who had kindly said, Yes, I want to support this.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Here's our logo, we will tell everybody.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then you started to like craft it around them, which really gained it, like boosts their trust in you for future events because you cared about all that they had to offer the audience.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: You knew it was important to the audience, and you you didn't have the ego to say, like, no, I already know what this is, I don't have room for you.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you were like, I know, let's bring you all in.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love that.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then just even knowing your audience and knowing you're right, that they will gain more from talking to people, that they will build their own community, honestly, their trust in you would grow and their loyalty because you've made the space for them.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you were probably popping into the Slack group too.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then also your connections to all of them that you can then not manipulatively, but like you're gonna leverage it later of like if you know somebody has a podcast on this, like you could get on it or you want to connect somebody, like you suddenly have this entire what became just a learning opportunity, also was like, how do you grow your network even more?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I'll also add that these launch partners, some of them I reached out to and I said, Can you maybe do you have a discount code?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the in my sign-up form, I asked people to tell me what products and services they use and love.
• 15:45
  unknown: Yes.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I then reached out to the those products and services and I said, Hey, a lot of people have mentioned that they love this.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, reasonable to assume that there's more people where that came from within this group.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to offer a discount code to the members of this challenge?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so then within the Slack channel, I had a whole page of discounts that were available to people who were taking part in the challenge.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the email that would go out, I would say, if you want those discounts in one place, I would give them in the newsletter.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna gatekeep that from anybody who doesn't want to join the Slack channel, but you would have to do a little bit of digging.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you want them in one place and you want other discussions, come over to the Slack channel.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what would happen is that every day I would post the email, I which uh speaking of learnings, it became a lot more involved than I thought it would.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I initially was like, it's gonna be a once one-liner and then and then a link out to a resource.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Easy.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out I really hate giving one size fits all advice.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I knew this.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's why the name of the company is called Well It Depends.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I should have known that I was going to have to explanatory comma myself into oblivion and give a lot of examples and resources and all that kind of stuff.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So what ended up happening is the emails probably took me at least an hour to put together.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, then I would move over a version of that email to the Slack channel for discussion, then Slack channel management because I'm on the free plan, which maybe one day I will be in a situation where I can create some automations and community management tools.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: But for now, I spent a lot of time making sure people were asking questions in the right place.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or if somebody was responding to something and it wasn't in a thread, I was messaging them and asking them to move it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was deleting.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of stuff that I obviously know is not best practice.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: You want me.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was part of the process.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was sort of how it worked on a day-to-day basis.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Ended up being, like I said, a lot more work than I thought, but but also a lot more successful than I thought it would be.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have a few questions.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can say pass.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that you asked the data of what they were using and then could leverage that also to get the discount codes because it really shows that that client that at the the company that like that you've done the research.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just like with your hands out, you know, being like, please, please, please.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Some people came to me after a while and said, How can I get it on like getting in front of the audience?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've had sometimes I would say, Well, you can pay to be part of it, you know, but other times.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was just gonna say, Yeah, did you get like were you an affiliate for those or some some okay?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, awesome.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the deal that I had with Beehive is that they paid for one week of tips.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So each they paid for seven tips and they were spread out through the the latter two weeks of the of the challenge.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so the tips that are Beehive tips, you can see sponsored by Beehive, and then also relate back to resources that they have.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they had just in the middle of July announced their community feature, so that was super relevant.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: But their big thing is they wanted to get people that have podcasts to have newsletters.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now, if you have a podcast and you're curious about bringing it over to Beehive, you can now host on Beehive.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that all went into the partnership with them.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I could reach out to some of these other brands and services, and some of them did end up sponsoring my other newsletters and then also have a piece within this challenge as well.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good ROI.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And definitely not something that I know how to trace or that I trace because of the way that my brain works and my organizational skills are, but it I'm sure it is.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So because you've now built this entire infrastructure, as somebody who has built a year's worth of evergreen content that can run in kits on the back end, you know, for new people.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something that you are thinking now that you've made all those emails?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is this an evergreen that you will like run yearly?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Theoretically, right now, I've got a lot of spots out on the internet where people might be able to find the challenge.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I would love to happen is for them to get an email that's like, hey, your challenge starts tomorrow.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna start getting the emails on a day-to-day basis.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can join the asynchronous Slack channel to discuss with other people who might be discovering these tips for the first time.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have that in place right now.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure if I spent a weekend, I could figure it out.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I do not have time.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I realized August was a chill for me, quote unquote, in terms of like yeah, in terms of in terms of um, I did not do a 30-day challenge in August.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: But in September, I am doing another 30-day challenge.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: This one is uh less involved.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing something called the International Podcast Month Challenge because September is International Podcast Month, which ends on International Podcast Day, September 30th.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm doing is every day just on Slack.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it's an event on Luma.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you find it on Luma, you are encouraged to join us on Slack.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I did say that I'm gonna do a roundup at the end of the month of all the tips if you decided not to join us on Slack.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a Slack challenge and it's a channel within Slack where each day I post today, we're learning from name of podcasts, specifically because they do this thing really well, colon, and then the thing.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I kind of describe what that thing is.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I've done uh one on uh specifically looking at why this cover art is great.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've done one on here's somebody who does their show notes really well, and here's why.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Here's somebody that incorporates video in a way that that works, even though it is an audio first podcast.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So things like that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then recently I started doing uh today we're learning from the podcast academy because they have an event coming up about X, Y, and Z that I think you might be interested in.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm branching out a little bit from just learning from this podcast because of X, Y, and Z, but it's all still podcast related.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea is it's international podcast month, so let's let's learn from podcasts.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I did do the challenge thing again.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just I love it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It it's so it's so good for people that are action oriented that want to be able to have a clear outcome at the end of the thing you will have gained at least one thing.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you've you must have found that that was kind of your audience.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is like your audience responds very well to those bursts like a sprint challenge.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I find is these mostly independent creators or people that are the pot on the podcast team or the podcast person at a small nonprofit or at an organization.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: They are the ones that constantly need to prove that the podcast is worth making and they're the ones that want to learn little things that might help.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And my whole MO, my whole what I really want people to understand who are in my my orbit is they might help.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: These things might help.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you also really need to figure out what works for you rather than taking these blanket statement pieces of advice.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I try my best not to be like this is the thing that works, but I'll say here is a thing that has worked for some people here's how it might work for you.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And my whole goal is that people cut to come away from my events or or when I speak or my Slack channel or my emails saying to themselves that's interesting.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if it'll work for me but I understand why it worked for somebody else.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of knowledge that gets people to the next level but yeah it's critical thinking.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah but I, you know, I I I really understand the desire to just say like let go and let God because you're already doing so much work to make the show.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now you also have to do the marketing and the promo and everything.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I get why you would want to say it's out of my hands but if you want it to be if you want it to work it you it it does take time and it does take effort.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so fun.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love the marketing stuff.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's it's kind of as you were describing it all and as this is the first podcast that I've had to run myself like I had the luxury of having a co-host who bring in a podcast studio and you know did all the pre-production and all the editing and everything else.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: As you were talking like it is a microcosm of being a solopreneur where you wear every single hat and then you get everybody who's like oh that must be so much fun and you're like yeah I mean it is and also you don't know all the different hats I wear in my day to get this one thing that on the outside looks like just one thing but really it is 10 million tasks.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for somebody who like doesn't come from a marketing background that's not what they need to learn or learn how to be a video editor and also like a sound engineer.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I would even say you you mentioned before you were going to have it be like a host challenge.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: That has been an interesting thing too to watch my friend go through get people it through pre-production where she's like I need you to take some improv classes and she's working with some political candidates to be like how do we get you ready for for media like we need to do a media training and how do you make an apology video and so it it's just I think for everybody who like it is it's so much fun to do.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then it is also thinking about it from like capacity of what you can do.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I can see where your audience likes these sprints where I don't mean in a weird way but there's like it's that aspirational like when I'm done with this month, where am I going to be and it's so much better than where I am now.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes sense that like it's very enticing and appealing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously you do you give so much information and then you give them that like time to percolate and you give them that community and the space to like let the lesson sink in and to see what other people have learned or what worked for them.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know I'm impressed that you are running the Slack entirely by yourself because that is a huge task.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: A mess.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just talked with an author and he has a Slack channel or a Discord channel but he has like mods and he just sounds awesome.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think they're readers who are just like just asked if they could be mods and he's like okay so like here's the training and and now go.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I have control issues and it would take me a a while to get okay with that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: But there are definitely some people in the Slack channel who take direction well you know and I also I started a beter beta I sound like I'm really from Long Island a beta membership program where I'm giving a few of my like most active people quote unquote membership.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to figure out what that means but theoretically they get to go to all non all events for free um except for like I'm running a newsletter course in a few weeks that one is still paid uh for the members but in exchange they are sort of moderators they beta test some of the tools and resources that I create or they um they get access to things a little bit early.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes if I have too many times in a day had to be like hey can you guys please put this question in the questions tab I'll ask somebody else to do it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay I'm so excited I'm just a nerd when you were like I'm beta testing a membership I'm like okay so I love that this came out of what seems to be a super fan collective of people who were showing up for everything who were asking maybe to test things or that you've known the longest and were like let me give you something extra but I do also love that you were like my beta testers pay me because um as a writer for one of my businesses like art readers are a thing and authors notoriously just give out the art grades and I'm like no I think they can pay me for the art grade because you're getting it early you're in this special group it's like an elite status or like we get a badge somewhere.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I love that you are like yeah they they get all these things and they're paying for it not the other way around not like you're just giving them like they get so much more than the value of the money obviously but I I love this idea of like this membership for you.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it is I eventually want to have a membership where people pay I I'm still paying around with the pricing maybe$50 for unlimited events per month with a minimum commitment of four months.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in exchange they get uh like a monthly round table with the rest of the members and sorry that's no exchange yet I'm now still giving them all the things for free.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: In exchange um really the idea is I would I just want to have recurring membership revenue.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: So$50 a month go to whatever you want some of the events are going to be relevant to you some are not but you've got this special private part of the Slack channel you've got this roundtable event and then at the next level which I'm playing around with you get a quarterly planning meeting with me.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So playing around with that we'll see oh that's incredibly valuable.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And may and you know I'm sure if we talk to some community slash membership consultants they say double it but that is what I'm trying to figure out.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I mean I don't I haven't done your audience research but the yeah I'm guessing it can go higher.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the fun thing is always you get to test for anybody listening who's like oh my God what would you throw like there is you can change the price anytime you want and then you can have a sale right price is changing you can get grant or you attract new people you know yeah yeah a lot of people like it stuck in perfectionism I've seen where it's like out of the gate it has to be perfect.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like it could change.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: No forget it nothing I've ever done you love it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta roll with it.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Also like you will get audience feedback once you launch it that says like actually we don't want this we would like this instead or could we have more of this and you're like awesome now we've got two tiers of a membership easy peasy like that's always so much fun.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I love that you are just relaxed about it.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say as somebody who has run recurring revenue things like oh it's the best it is I need to get more organized in order to to really make it valuable for people like like I said you know everything I do is manual.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Everything I do is manual.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: It would make organized people scream what I do and the way that I organize things.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how it all comes together.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it doesn't with that in mind I don't yet feel comfortable charging people on a recurring basis for whatever it is until I really figure out how to make sure it's going to stay valuable month to month.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes within your capacity yes and when I when I work with people to build out what memberships look like it is always what does your audience need as a circle and what is within your capacity to give on a recurring basis because the last thing we want to do is disappoint them or forget about them and then you know they know they know what we've left they're very perceptive.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have and I'm guessing this is the newsletter that you've now like named officially the earbuds podcast collective and this is the one correct me if I'm wrong where people get to submit yes their own list.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay so is part of that one I love that it's it is human generated because as we talked before we hit record like once you start a podcast everybody their mom comes at you with like have you tried this AI thing to make clips or to pitch or everything.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you're kind of bucking that and going you've stayed human it's almost like um like sharing a mixtape or like when a friend suggests like a you know a new musician to you.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have people submitting theirs was that to help your own workload or you just genuinely were like I want to know what everybody else is listening to both.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: When I started it in 2016 2016 is when that when I was really starting to really listen to podcasts and I was listening a lot I was living in LA and I was in traffic all the time and I really was so creative during that time.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Traffic made me so creative.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: I bet it makes a lot of LA creative and a lot of great ideas come out of LA creative ideas.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I had this idea that I listen to five or so podcasts every week and then when they're done I know there's more out there but how do I find the ones that are worth my time I thought to myself my friend Bethany also has her five favorite podcasts.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are overlapping with mine some are not her friend has her five favorite podcasts and so on and so forth.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: What if we listen to the podcast that our friends recommended that way we could talk about them sure but also we could just discover new things that we might not go out of our comfort zone on our own but with a little endorsement from a friend we might.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So initially when I started what eventually became the newsletter I put out a survey on SurveyMonkey and I sent it to friends and I just said can you tell me about your listening habits how often do you listen when do you listen what do you listen to do you have any desire to become some sort of curator or or like curate I called it like a a lead like a curator lead.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't even know I was so I was 24 and I was I dumb I'm not gonna say I was I would DJ I didn't know anything I didn't know anything at all about email marketing about about survey methodology anything.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I got a bunch of people who were like yeah sure would love a weekly newsletter on this and so I initially started the newsletter on Gmail and I sent it BCCing everybody.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: It got up to a hundred people and then I accidentally CC'd people and I was like okay it's time for me to learn MailChimp and I chose MailChimp because I had been listening to podcasts and MailChimp was a big advertiser in podcasts.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I eventually built a website on Squarespace because Squarespace was a big advertiser on podcasts.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: My life is podcasts.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ads work basically is what we're ads really really work.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know over the years it's been almost 10 years I've learned a lot about email marketing and subject lines and and lead magnets and lead generation and and everything to the point that I would be comfortable applying to a newsletter related job just on my own what I've taught myself.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love newsletters and the newsletter formed over time to be submit a list of five podcast episodes.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: They can be on any theme you want and if you have your own podcast you can include one of your own episodes now people will reach out to me I get press releases I get hundreds of press releases every week new people launching new podcasts new networks launching new podcasts new seasons whatever it is and often they'll know that I have a newsletter and they'll say can you can you feature me or do you have any upcoming lists that we can get featured in and my answer to them is always I can do you one better you can submit a list and you might even be like the curator for that week.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't guarantee that everybody will be able to do that also because some people's lists are very specific and that's one of the things that I've learned a lot about email marketing over the years is I used to do like a list on best podcasts for middle aged girlies with IBS and now I'm like and now I'm like I don't think I can put that in my newsletter because I have way too many people who are not middle aged girlies with IBS so now what I'll do is I will put that list out because it is really useful for some people but I'll do it on my blog.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And in the newsletter I do it a little bit more how to or action focused.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: So most recently I I did a newsletter issue on how to apologize podcasts on apologies.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's stories not just about like apologies per se.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's about like the concept of being sorry apologizing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's human interest stories that that yeah so anyway that's that's the newsletter and it's my baby and 10 years soon and I want to have a party but it's just a few months away and I promised myself that I would be planning it for a year but now I have like four months to go and I'm not doing that.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know I haven't known you very long but I think that tracks so I think I think daya you're gonna I might pull it together bodega and just be like a kick.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah oh my gosh I love it so much.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I would say like you never meant to get into this field.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: It it grew out of a passion.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: You grew a community you set yourself up unintentionally perhaps as the person to go to with all the information but also as the connector to all of these different organizations like I love that you actively so many people like would just reach out for those sponsors but you're like oh no I picked the ones that I actually had connections with and I think a lot of people forget like you can through networking events and things like that but even just emails like start to build relationships with people so that you can ask those favors when it comes time.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I love too that you've taken people along the way and you you really understand what they need from you.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Also like what they need just in their life like there's a reason we all like podcasts and goodness knows my favorite ones are very silly British comedy ones about random you and my cousin for some reason he was like I'm really into British comedians that no one's heard of I don't know Taskmaster Yeah that's what he listens to no such thing as a fish.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um and then you're dead to me which is just a I love you're dead to me.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So like I love that there are I think your list like allows people to one both you know improve their craft improve their business but also just be a more well-rounded human and like connect with other people about the weird podcast they found that week.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can I be so real with you when I started this newsletter my real hope was that I would just be able to talk that I would get people together to talk about podcasts.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: It has evolved now to be a tool for podcasters who want help getting their show out into the world.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And my list right now is like 60% listeners but 40% people that make podcasts and also listen to podcasts but but a lot of people who who want to get their show out into the world.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is there have been a lot of people in my newsletter for nine years, 10 years that started just as listeners and then they've made a podcast and then they've stopped making a podcast and then they make a podcast again.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a really long time so I've kind of seen a lot of cycles people are like dipping out in and out of the the podcast creator world but my whole when I started I was like I just want people who listen to podcasts and still to this day when I find people out in the wild who are like I love podcasts.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have no desire to make one I'm like worshiping at their feet.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like I need well I'm like I need more of you.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well thank you so much for sitting down like as I said you are the queen of podcasts and this has been a delight I know you don't want the title it's I I'm okay.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have to I have to wince a little bit but other than that I appreciate it very much.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: No this has been delightful and I'm so glad that we got to talk because one I think you know it's it's nice to know I have a place to send people also when they're just like I need a new podcast to listen to but also oh my goodness I have a podcast and I now have to do all the things and I would like to get better.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it was fun to learn to just like this challenge and while you might say it was like seat of your pants like there's a lot of strategy deep down that totally that you you're sitting on a gold mine of data too and I'm just like oh I can't wait till she digs into it.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no there's a lot of stuff in there that I should be exporting and analyzing and then making some decisions based on but we'll get there.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you have time yeah yeah yeah well thank you thank you for your interest in this challenge it was really cool so I was glad to be able to talk about it.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and we'll have all the information in the show notes for people but yeah thank you for coming on.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation had you going okay how do I build my own version of that?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's my whole job over at FatCap where we help businesses build brands their audience obsesses over.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: You'll find the link in the show notes along with everything today's guest brought up I'm Megan go be weirdly effective