Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / Ah, the 'He Loved Her So He Did the Hacky-Hacky' Defense | Brian Walshe Murder Trial, Day 10 Recap

Transcript

Ah, the 'He Loved Her So He Did the Hacky-Hacky' Defense | Brian Walshe Murder Trial, Day 10 Recap · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:01
  Jurors have gone home for the weekend after just a few short
• 0:05
  hours of deliberation following closing arguments from both the
• 0:12
  prosecution and the defense And the trial of Brian Walsh, the
• 0:18
  Cohasset man who is accused of killing his wife, 39 year old
• 0:24
  Anna Walsh, back on New Year's Day in the early morning hours
• 0:29
  or the late hours of New Year's Eve.
• 0:31
  No, it wasn't the late hours of New Year's Eve.
• 0:33
  It was the early morning hours of New Year's Day 2023.
• 0:37
  Now, several things happened in in closing arguments today that
• 0:42
  I think that we probably want to take a look at.
• 0:44
  We want to take a close look at. So, yeah, stick with me.
• 0:50
  Let's talk through it. What am I trying to say?
• 0:54
  Yeah, just stick with me. Here we go.
• 1:08
  This video contains mature themes and discussions intended
• 1:12
  only for adult audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.
• 1:18
  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another true crime
• 1:22
  conversation with me, Gavin Fish on the self named YouTube
• 1:27
  channel. Indeed, it is named Gavin Fish
• 1:31
  on this channel. While we are not creative in
• 1:33
  naming channels, we do like to get into the nitty gritty of
• 1:37
  true crimes and if that is your deal, then you're in the right
• 1:43
  place and thanks for being here. I'm glad you're here.
• 1:45
  If we stick around, of course, we are talking about the murder
• 1:49
  of Anna Walsh. We have been taking a close look
• 1:54
  at this case as it has been playing out publicly and being
• 1:59
  live streamed around the world because it is in the
• 2:02
  Commonwealth of Massachusetts for the last 10 days.
• 2:06
  Oh, Dom's mom says greetings from Seattle.
• 2:08
  Don't forget, don't forget. I love this.
• 2:10
  I love this. Guys, you got to tell me where
• 2:12
  you're from. Tell me where you're from down
• 2:14
  in the down in the comments. I want to know where you're
• 2:17
  tuning in from. OK?
• 2:19
  Anna Walsh, 39 years old, mother of three, had a little family
• 2:25
  gathering for New Year's 2022 going into 2023.
• 2:31
  They have a friend over. Everything's just fine.
• 2:34
  And then according to Brian Walsh, after the party was over,
• 2:39
  he just went down in the middle of the night to clean up the
• 2:42
  kitchen because that's what one does.
• 2:44
  After they have gone to bed on New Year's, they go down to
• 2:48
  clean the kitchen. When he came up, he says she was
• 2:52
  dead in bed. And what did he decide to do?
• 2:56
  Well, of course, what we would all decide to do, go to the
• 3:02
  hardware store, buy a hacksaw, buy a, a hatchet, a a hammer,
• 3:07
  some tin snips, maybe some shears, get some buckets of
• 3:12
  Tyvek suit. That's what a normal person
• 3:15
  would do because you got to get rid of the body, right?
• 3:18
  She died. We don't, we don't call the
• 3:21
  ambulance, we don't call the coroner, we don't call the
• 3:25
  Funeral Home. You know, I'm trying to remember
• 3:27
  here in the States, there's like a three digit number that you
• 3:30
  can put into your phone when there are emergencies such as an
• 3:36
  unexpected death. It'll come to me.
• 3:41
  But yeah, I it's just so stupid. It's just so stupid.
• 3:47
  The story that is being a woven in front of the jury's little
• 3:53
  noggins. And I am hoping, Oh my goodness,
• 3:56
  I am so hoping that they are not convinced that there is
• 4:03
  reasonable doubt that Anna Walsh was murdered.
• 4:07
  Now, today, because the defense rested yesterday without calling
• 4:12
  a witness, without presenting a, a shred or what would we an iota
• 4:18
  of evidence, they did not put Mr. Walsh on the stand.
• 4:22
  He decided not to testify. In my opinion, it's because they
• 4:27
  believe the Commonwealth did not meet its burden of proof, which
• 4:36
  I, I mean, I don't know. I don't know, man.
• 4:41
  I don't know. But that's what they did.
• 4:43
  And so today was closing arguments by today was closing
• 4:50
  arguments. Today we had closing arguments
• 4:53
  by both the defense and the prosecution.
• 4:57
  Now the defense spoke for about an hour, I think it was just shy
• 5:04
  of an hour. It was like 58 minutes or
• 5:07
  something like that. The the prosecution was shorter.
• 5:11
  It was like half an hour. But I have gone through and I
• 5:16
  have grabbed a couple clips that I want to watch with you from
• 5:22
  both arguments. Before I do though, let's go
• 5:26
  over to your comments and see where you guys are checking in
• 5:28
  from. Let's see, we have got Kentucky,
• 5:34
  one of my favorite lines in the Hollywood version of Last the
• 5:40
  Mohicans from what the 1990s is. How is it that you are going?
• 5:45
  How is it there's a war and you're going to Kentucky?
• 5:47
  He goes very easy. You just face north and real
• 5:52
  sudden like turn left. I love that.
• 5:55
  Welcome, Kentucky. Oh, we've got some news out of
• 5:57
  Kentucky that we're going to get to a little bit later.
• 5:59
  We got Seattle, WA in the house. We got South Lake Tahoe, we got
• 6:03
  Maryland, Birmingham, AL. I'm sure they say Birmingham in
• 6:07
  Alabama, Jacksonville, FL, Bradenton, FL, Pennsylvania in
• 6:13
  the house to come some Michigan in the house.
• 6:16
  We have got North Carolina, we've got Hickory, NC, we've got
• 6:20
  Melbourne, Australia in the house.
• 6:21
  Thank you very much. Mount Gambier, Australia, don't
• 6:26
  know, don't know if I pronounced that correctly or not San
• 6:30
  Antonio, TX, Western Kentucky, Medford, OR.
• 6:33
  So glad you guys are and thank you all for checking.
• 6:37
  I, I don't know, I just love that part.
• 6:39
  That's my favorite part. OK, come with me, if you will to
• 6:45
  this little segment right here. OK, this is did I hit the wrong
• 6:52
  button? Give me a second.
• 6:54
  This is Mr. Tipton, the one of two defense counsel for Mr.
• 6:59
  Walsh. I have narrowed his hour long
• 7:06
  closing argument down to 7 minutes and 46 seconds.
• 7:10
  These are the most important parts in my opinion.
• 7:14
  I don't know who am I, I'm nobody, but this is my opinion.
• 7:17
  OK, I have bumped up the volume. It might be a little little hot.
• 7:23
  So if you got headphones on, maybe maybe, maybe start with
• 7:27
  them out a little bit or earbuds, you know, maybe pull
• 7:30
  them out just a little bit because I think I did make it a
• 7:32
  little hot, but the the sound was just awful.
• 7:35
  And so I've done my best to just bump it up so that we can hear
• 7:39
  it. Let's hear what Mr. Tipton has
• 7:42
  to say. This is joining about 3 minutes
• 7:45
  into the opening statement. So what would cause a loving
• 7:51
  husband and a loving father to do the things that we've heard
• 7:58
  about in this case? Indeed.
• 8:00
  What indeed? Could it be something that was
• 8:03
  sudden, something that was unexpected, something that was
• 8:07
  unbelievable, something that only a medical examiner would
• 8:13
  understand? Have not?
• 8:16
  How do we know that Mister Walsh was a loving father and a loving
• 8:20
  husband? I don't think we do.
• 8:22
  We know from much of the testimony of Jim Motlow.
• 8:29
  We know from simple testimony from Julie Basler from
• 8:34
  Kindercare, when asked questions about her experience with Mr.
• 8:40
  Walsh and the children, that he would show up and he'd be
• 8:44
  interested and he'd be friendly and he was always interested in
• 8:47
  the progress of his children. And how do we know he was a good
• 8:52
  father? Because Anna Walsh trusted him
• 8:56
  with. By the way, you can't.
• 9:00
  They're not mutually exclusive. You can be a good father and a
• 9:03
  murderer at the same time. Like the human animal is a
• 9:06
  complex beast. We are a complex Organism.
• 9:11
  We can do things that are just seem completely dissonant from
• 9:17
  one another. And yet both things can be true
• 9:19
  at the same time. So who cares if he was a good
• 9:21
  father? I think he was also a murderer.
• 9:24
  Their three children, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
• 9:30
  For all those times she was up in Washington, DC.
• 9:43
  The unthinkable happens. It happens in a variety of ways,
• 9:52
  and the Commonwealth must prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt
• 9:58
  that a homicide occurred, that a killing occurred.
• 10:03
  Nothing proves that beyond a reasonable doubt on the facts
• 10:08
  and circumstances and the evidence that we've given to
• 10:10
  you. That was a weird sound.
• 10:14
  There's evidence that he lied to the police.
• 10:16
  Yeah. There's evidence that he
• 10:18
  searched the Internet. Uh huh.
• 10:20
  Oh yeah. There's evidence that he
• 10:22
  disposed of her. Body in garbage bags all over
• 10:28
  the city in. All of the evidence that you
• 10:30
  have heard have been presented that he ever once thought about
• 10:35
  harming the woman he loved, that he ever thought about harming
• 10:42
  the woman he loved. Did he ever plan to harm?
• 10:48
  Did he ever intended to harm? So when we talk about the
• 10:59
  evidence of the affair, when we talk about evidence of financial
• 11:05
  concerns, when we talk about evidence of being afraid to go
• 11:09
  to prison, those are the motives that the Commonwealth needs to
• 11:18
  prove to you to support any notion that a loving husband and
• 11:23
  a loving father would kill his wife.
• 11:26
  And the evidence suggests there was no motive at all.
• 11:32
  And without a motive, without a reason, a reason that is based
• 11:39
  on facts and circumstances, logic and understanding.
• 11:45
  Without that, you have a sudden and unexpected event that
• 11:55
  results in confusion and panic and fear.
• 12:01
  Let me just pause that for a second.
• 12:06
  First of all, there doesn't have to be a motive to prove murder
• 12:12
  that that I mean, we all want a motive.
• 12:15
  We love knowing what the motive was, but that's not one of the
• 12:22
  the elements that the prosecution has to prove.
• 12:25
  That's complete red herring. And the fact that that the idea
• 12:32
  that one would go direct to the hacky, hacky choppy, choppy is a
• 12:39
  ridiculous, ridiculous thing to even imagine.
• 12:46
  And like I said, he can be a loving father.
• 12:48
  He can even be a loving husband and not be a good husband.
• 12:56
  Right? Oh my goodness.
• 12:58
  It's just yeah. OK, next clip.
• 13:01
  The dark trouble evidence of the searches, they begin at 4:52 AM
• 13:14
  on January 1st of 2023. And the first one is how do you
• 13:18
  dispose of the body? It causes chills.
• 13:23
  It causes disgust. Look at all of those searches.
• 13:32
  Think of how they evolved. Consider how they go from one
• 13:36
  subject to another in rapid fashion searches conducted by a
• 13:41
  man that is in disbelief and confusion.
• 13:48
  Five hours spending with his wife on New Year's Eve, enjoying
• 13:56
  life, talking about the future, and then the sudden and
• 14:02
  unexpected tragedy happens and it doesn't make sense.
• 14:08
  You know, the this argument that he keeps on coming back to it
• 14:12
  was sudden, it was unexpected, it was a tragic event and
• 14:16
  therefore he just wasn't prepared for it.
• 14:19
  Guys, I wonder, like I wonder Mr. Tipton specifically, but
• 14:26
  let's just say in general now, I think that most defense
• 14:30
  attorneys, criminal defense attorneys probably rationalize
• 14:35
  their argument because they must make an argument.
• 14:39
  And, and it's important to do for, you know, for the system to
• 14:45
  work, we, we need good defense attorneys and we need them to,
• 14:49
  to make their best effort at defending their client.
• 14:56
  We, we need that. We want that.
• 14:59
  But I wonder if he goes home and just giggles, like I cannot
• 15:02
  believe what I said with a straight face today.
• 15:06
  I wonder if that happens because nobody goes says to themselves,
• 15:12
  oh, this was sudden and unexpected.
• 15:15
  Let's buy a hacksaw. Nobody does that.
• 15:22
  If Mr. Walsh began to make those searches with murder in his
• 15:29
  heart as a result of murder, then why isn't the first search
• 15:35
  how to dispose of a body after murder?
• 15:39
  Because that's the search that occurred 6 hours later.
• 15:47
  And when you see that word murder, no one would not react
• 15:54
  to that word. And certainly as jurors in this
• 15:57
  matter, you're expected to react in a way to that.
• 15:59
  What does that mean? Does that mean that he in fact
• 16:04
  murdered? Is what?
• 16:07
  But think about the context if this case.
• 16:10
  On these facts, context matters. OK, tell us the context.
• 16:17
  And so the first time the word murder is used in these horrific
• 16:21
  searches is 6 hours after they begin.
• 16:25
  And I tried to ask Trooper Garino, one of the forensic
• 16:30
  specialist, as he called himself associated with the Mass State
• 16:34
  Police. I tried to ask him, well, it's
• 16:37
  only logical, isn't it, that if you don't get results, you
• 16:43
  change the wording. We all know that from our own
• 16:48
  common experience. And you look at those searches
• 16:52
  that came and went during this time and the results have to do
• 16:57
  with funeral parlors and cemeteries and things like that.
• 17:04
  But Mr. Walsh. OK.
• 17:07
  Given the tragedy that occurred to his life, and given the time
• 17:10
  that had passed and his fear and disbelief, he couldn't call a
• 17:15
  funeral parlour. Why not?
• 17:17
  Try to understand what can I do. Well, yes, you could have.
• 17:25
  Your client could have called a funeral parlor.
• 17:27
  They become more upsetting. Now the thought is
• 17:31
  dismemberment. And there's searches like that.
• 17:35
  You've heard about them. You'll read about them.
• 17:39
  Give me a break and. Then you see searches that cover
• 17:44
  days and their searches about clean and their searches about
• 17:47
  how to clean up. You'll read them, and even
• 17:51
  though they don't talk about murder, they are equally
• 17:54
  upsetting because you're thinking as jurors.
• 17:56
  In this case, he's thinking about cleaning up the basement.
• 18:03
  Yeah, a murder scene. How you clean a concrete?
• 18:07
  A choppy, choppy scene? Come on.
• 18:10
  Context. Yes, context, OK, yeah.
• 18:14
  So I again, it's very important that we have a good competent
• 18:21
  defense for, you know, for defendants for sure.
• 18:29
  We we definitely want to give them the benefit of the, the,
• 18:36
  the benefit that they are innocent until proven guilty.
• 18:43
  But I feel like the proof was pretty, pretty damning in this
• 18:47
  one. Yeah.
• 18:50
  Carol says an autopsy could have shown a genetic anomaly that
• 18:54
  could impact her son's. OK.
• 18:57
  Hey, Grizzly Bebo from my home turf, Sacramento, CA Mooney,
• 19:03
  thank you very much for the gift memberships.
• 19:05
  You are awesome. Bought, bought.
• 19:10
  Bodile. Thank you for joining us from
• 19:13
  Norway. That's pretty awesome.
• 19:17
  Yeah. It's just yeah, Haas lamb to
• 19:25
  choppy, choppy. Oh, I think that's the comment
• 19:37
  of the day that that is very, very good.
• 19:42
  So funny, so funny. All right, So I just feel like
• 19:49
  he has to, he has to give the the jury something to doubt
• 19:56
  about, right. And he's done the best that he
• 20:01
  possibly can. All right, let's see, Cheryl
• 20:05
  says. I hear he's a great lawyer.
• 20:07
  His client left him with a hard case to defend.
• 20:09
  Brian Walsh most certainly did this.
• 20:11
  In my opinion, because who cut up their loved ones after a
• 20:14
  sudden death? Well, Cheryls, it was sudden and
• 20:18
  unexpected. Of course you would.
• 20:21
  You would cut up your loved one. No, you're right.
• 20:24
  You're right. Yeah.
• 20:26
  I think Mr. Tipton is a good lawyer.
• 20:28
  I I mean, not a legal scholar or a law professor or anything like
• 20:33
  that, but I think he's doing a good job.
• 20:34
  He's got the best. He's doing the best that he can.
• 20:38
  OK, so let's move on over to the prosecution, shall we?
• 20:47
  This is Miss Yass or Yass I've. I've cut this to about 9 1/2
• 20:55
  minutes. Couple clips.
• 20:56
  You'll see the little, little white flash when you when you
• 21:00
  see my cuts. Here we go.
• 21:07
  Anna Walsh is dead because he murdered her and he intended her
• 21:13
  death. Anna Walsh is not missing.
• 21:19
  She never walked out of her class at home on January 1st of
• 21:22
  2023 between 6:00 and 7:00 AM to take an Uber to Logan Airport.
• 21:29
  She wasn't going to DC for a work emergency.
• 21:34
  There was no emergency. She would say goodbye to her
• 21:39
  son. That's just a story that the
• 21:43
  defendant told people that since January 1st, Otto Walsh has not
• 21:49
  been seen by her friends or Co workers or by the people who
• 21:56
  loved her. Otto Walsh dying a sudden death
• 22:01
  from natural causes defies common sense.
• 22:05
  Indeed. The defendant told police that
• 22:09
  Anna was a sturdy Serbian woman. Listen carefully to his reported
• 22:14
  interviews because those are his words after her death, after he
• 22:20
  killed her. Mark Sobagi told you that Anna
• 22:24
  had the highest health rating of the life insurance company.
• 22:29
  Anna had to complete an interview, had blood drawn,
• 22:33
  supply her medical records, and the life insurance company and
• 22:37
  the underwriters gave her this health rating.
• 22:42
  Anna was an active person who took care of her health.
• 22:46
  Ashley Cimino, her bar instructor, told you about this
• 22:49
  exercise class that she took the morning of December 31st, 2022.
• 22:55
  What was the type of person, she said, who made others want to
• 22:58
  work harder in their exercise class?
• 23:03
  Will Fastow told you that Anna was very active and did yoga
• 23:07
  together. Sergeant Amy Waterman described
• 23:12
  Anna's whole she had. Yeah, probably.
• 23:16
  And Doctor Atkinson told you about the different ways a
• 23:19
  person can die and that it's extremely rare for a 39 year old
• 23:25
  in good health to suddenly die of unknown causes.
• 23:31
  But without a body, it's not possible for the medical
• 23:35
  examiner to tell you the exact cause of Anna Walsh's death.
• 23:41
  No autopsy can be done. The defendant deliberately
• 23:47
  bought rib of Anna Walsh's body. The defendant did not want
• 23:54
  anyone to find on his body and to know how she died.
• 24:00
  So the defendant bought cutting tools at Roche and Home Depot
• 24:06
  and he cut up on his body the woman that he claimed to love,
• 24:13
  and he threw her into dumpsters. He was hiding her.
• 24:20
  You know, the thing that she's forgetting in her argument here
• 24:23
  is that he loved her. That's that's what she's
• 24:26
  forgetting. No, Miss.
• 24:28
  Yes, he he was a loving husband. No, I think she's making a
• 24:34
  strong point here. No, he says he loves her, but
• 24:38
  how how does that square he chopped her up it.
• 24:43
  I mean, man, I hope I hope the jury doesn't do something stupid
• 24:47
  here. I really don't.
• 24:49
  Body. Can you be charged with murder
• 25:00
  without a body? Anna was dead.
• 25:05
  The defendant killed her, and he began to researching how to get
• 25:10
  her money, how to inherit, how to get away with a crime.
• 25:17
  And he might have gotten away with it, but you know.
• 25:24
  If it weren't for meddling kids, I guess.
• 25:25
  But. Suki with his son's iPad, the
• 25:31
  same Apple ID. Yeah, he he got unlucky there.
• 25:36
  Didn't he changed during the interview on January 8th when
• 25:39
  the police mentioned the searches on the iPad?
• 25:42
  Not because the iPad involved his children.
• 25:46
  He had already involved the children in his lives.
• 25:50
  What? Because he knew he was caught.
• 25:54
  We know he had already involved the six year old when he had the
• 25:58
  six year old say that he saw his mother when she left the house
• 26:02
  on the morning of January 1st. The son could not have seen Anna
• 26:06
  leave the house. The defendant had already killed
• 26:11
  her. Listen to the reported
• 26:12
  interviews. During the January 5th
• 26:15
  interview, the defendant spoke about what his son supported at
• 26:21
  and the defendant involved. The four year old are saying
• 26:25
  that the four year old hid his phone hid the defendant's iPhone
• 26:32
  13 minutes. So the defendant's phone made a
• 26:37
  reservation at Nightshave Noodle Bar for New Year's Day after the
• 26:42
  defendant told Anna that they were going to have a special
• 26:45
  party. This is ironic because the
• 26:48
  defendant was very clear with police on January 7th that he
• 26:52
  and Ana had no plans for New Year's Day, and the defendant
• 26:55
  also knew that he would be violating the terms of his
• 26:58
  federal probation by going to a restaurant on New Year's Day.
• 27:03
  But let's look closely at Exhibit 170 about the night
• 27:07
  schedule reservation, which was on the defendant's iPhone Mini
• 27:11
  13, which the defense just said was deleted.
• 27:15
  And if you look on page 2 on the bottom of one of the bubbles,
• 27:19
  you will see that the message was deleted on January 1st at
• 27:25
  7:59 and five seconds. Mooney, I read that comment in
• 27:31
  the voice of Keith Morrison, but little did he know he's a
• 27:37
  terrible criminal. Yeah.
• 27:41
  This happens to be one of the times that the iPhone mini 13
• 27:45
  was unlocked when it was supposed to be missing.
• 27:52
  The forensics show that the defendant's phone was unlocked
• 27:56
  four times and it was plugged in on January 1st.
• 28:02
  You heard testimony that the phone had a password of 197512
• 28:11
  and in the January 4th reported interview you hear the oldest
• 28:15
  child needed help with his I have password which was 121212.
• 28:23
  The children didn't unlock the defendant's phone.
• 28:27
  The defendant blamed his misplaced phone on one of his
• 28:31
  children when he said that the children hid it, but it makes no
• 28:36
  sense that a four year old somehow unlocked the defendant's
• 28:41
  phone and deleted that text Reminder.
• 28:46
  Listen to the defendant's reported interview.
• 28:49
  The deletion is made when the defendant is supposedly making
• 28:53
  French toast and playing with the kids.
• 28:58
  The defendant had access to give up context, the defendant also
• 29:10
  had access to two other phones when his phone was supposedly
• 29:16
  lost. He had Anna's phone and he had
• 29:21
  the iPhone SE. And in the recorded interviews,
• 29:26
  the defendant told police that on New Year's Eve, Anna had an
• 29:30
  argument with her friends and as a result, Anna put her phone
• 29:34
  upstairs in his bedroom. The defendant prevented anyone
• 29:40
  from ever finding on his body and there was no autopsy.
• 29:44
  Exactly. Yep, the.
• 29:46
  Medical standard hand to an autopsy without a body and all
• 29:50
  that remains upon our two pairs. Some blood and a few things that
• 29:55
  belong there. A part of a necklace she often
• 29:58
  wore a hunter boots, a black jacket, a purse, a COVID card, a
• 30:05
  few other items in the dumpster. His mother's apartment complex.
• 30:12
  The defendant searched his network.
• 30:18
  Our murder conviction without a body.
• 30:23
  Please do not allow the defendant self-serving act of
• 30:27
  dismembering and disposing of on the body to let him get away
• 30:33
  with this murder. At the start of this trial, we
• 30:39
  asked you to use your common sentence.
• 30:43
  When you do that, when you analyze the evidence such a
• 30:46
  deliberate and continue to use your common sentence, you will
• 30:52
  see that the evidence shows. Here there is only one verdict.
• 30:59
  Find the defendant the guilty of the premeditated.
• 31:13
  Let's see. Give me a second.
• 31:17
  I want to. I want to see what you guys have
• 31:18
  to say. I'm going to put a poll here.
• 31:25
  All right? Tell me what you think.
• 31:27
  What do you think the jury is going to come back with?
• 31:30
  I think that these were compelling arguments.
• 31:33
  And I was going to say, I think both sides made good cases, but
• 31:36
  only one side made a case, right?
• 31:39
  And I think that the prosecution threw their 50 witnesses,
• 31:42
  forensics experts, digital forensics, export experts,
• 31:45
  medical examiners, friends, coworkers, shop owners and
• 31:51
  employees of Home Depot and Lowe's.
• 31:53
  And I mean, it was it was police officers, investigators.
• 31:57
  It was so, so, so much. And so I, I think if they came
• 32:05
  back with anything other than guilty of murder 1, then we have
• 32:10
  got, we've got some problems with this jury.
• 32:14
  Now let's bring on a backup here.
• 32:18
  There were, there were a couple comments earlier about, you
• 32:22
  know, I don't think that somebody said.
• 32:32
  That premeditation that they didn't think the premeditation
• 32:36
  had been proven and, and somebody already said it.
• 32:42
  I think it was a staff who said it.
• 32:47
  That premeditation can happen in a moment, or maybe Mooney said
• 32:51
  it. I, I'm sorry, but premeditation
• 32:55
  can happen in a moment. There's no minimum amount of
• 32:59
  time for premeditation to happen.
• 33:02
  If you just decide, hey, I want to kill that person and then you
• 33:07
  do it. And, and that entire time took a
• 33:13
  quarter of a second. You've got, you've got a gun
• 33:16
  leveled at somebody and you're like, I just want, I just want
• 33:19
  them to leave me alone. You know what?
• 33:21
  No, I want to kill this person. Squeeze the trigger.
• 33:24
  That's premeditation. And as long as the prosecution
• 33:28
  can prove it, then it's there. So I'm that that's where I am.
• 33:36
  Now, you guys on the pole, 95% of you say guilty, 5% say not
• 33:42
  guilty. And I see a couple of comments.
• 33:48
  Emily Hart thinks M1 or M2. Kathy with Grace thinks M1.
• 33:57
  Yeah, I there's, I don't know, I always go back to the words
• 34:05
  delivered on Men in Black by the incomparable and amazing Tommy
• 34:09
  Lee Jones. A person as smart people are
• 34:12
  stupid. And it's very difficult to know
• 34:15
  what a group of people are going to do.
• 34:18
  And sometimes, guys, those deliberations become
• 34:20
  negotiations. And I I've told you this story
• 34:25
  so many times, but when I was on that jury for a double homicide,
• 34:31
  I could not believe when we got into the deliberation room that
• 34:36
  my fellow jurors were looking at the same trial the whole time.
• 34:39
  I could not believe it. So yeah.
• 34:45
  And in my case, it did kind of come down to negotiation.
• 34:49
  We ended up 1 murder 1 and 1 murder 21, count of murder 11,
• 34:53
  count of murder 2. Cheryl says your title for the
• 34:57
  video is spot on and funny. Thank you.
• 34:59
  Emily Hart says murder one or murder 2.
• 35:05
  Has there ever been a case like this where they are innocent
• 35:07
  from the jury? Where the jury comes back as not
• 35:10
  guilty? I'm sure I, I can't, I can't
• 35:15
  think of a no body nobody, nobody cases making it to a
• 35:22
  trial is actually a relatively new thing, like 40 years.
• 35:30
  So, but I, I would imagine that that there is a case like this
• 35:35
  somewhere. I just can't think of it.
• 35:42
  Yeah, I, I, I tried because of my system, I could only do two
• 35:47
  options. So that's why that's that's why
• 35:51
  I did it that way. But thanks, Emily.
• 35:55
  OK, so that's where we are. Dred 1058 says I read the jury
• 36:02
  was not permitted to know that he pled guilty to chopping her
• 36:05
  up. Gavin, do you know from what I
• 36:06
  understand, they were not allowed to know that he pleaded
• 36:12
  guilty to it, but they were allowed to know that he did do
• 36:17
  the deed. They but yeah, so they they are
• 36:25
  just deciding on whether he murdered her or not, I guess at
• 36:29
  this point. And jury deliberations will
• 36:33
  continue on Monday morning. So we will be on jury watch.
• 36:39
  They get to take the take the weekend, which is pretty great.
• 36:45
  And Debbie confers that that is correct.
• 36:49
  They cannot know about the guilty pleas at the start of the
• 36:51
  trial. So that's where we are now.
• 36:54
  But we're not at the end of this here live stream because we got
• 37:00
  a couple segments to do. Let's get into headlines.
• 37:03
  We got we got some, we got some big news true crime headlines.
• 37:15
  Hey, Tanya Jones, our resident lawyer says before we get into
• 37:20
  headlines, Gavin, a nobody case where they admit to
• 37:23
  dismemberment has got to be a first.
• 37:26
  The jury was told he pleaded guilty to it in the choppy,
• 37:32
  choppy in the judge's rules. OK.
• 37:37
  And the judge. Oh, OK, OK.
• 37:40
  Kathy with Grace. Thank you for the Super chat.
• 37:43
  Kathy with Grace, thanks for all you do covering this and your
• 37:48
  thoughts. My pleasure.
• 37:50
  That is what I'm here for. OK, we already did the the
• 37:54
  headlines little segment thing. So come over with me to Acrobat
• 38:00
  William and a couple of headlines that I want to bring
• 38:04
  you up to date on. Do you guys remember the Rebecca
• 38:06
  Baptiste case? Headline says Arizona?
• 38:10
  DCS identifies key issues in Rebecca Baptiste case The
• 38:15
  Arizona Department of Child Safety has completed a month
• 38:19
  long internal review of Rebecca Baptiste's case.
• 38:22
  The 10 year old's death is one of three murders of children
• 38:24
  known to the department this year.
• 38:27
  While a report is still being finalized, DCS sent ABC 15 a
• 38:30
  list of key issues they have identified in their review.
• 38:33
  Remember that this family had been on the D CSS radar and with
• 38:40
  their involvement and then they just kind of disappeared.
• 38:44
  They went out to live in a yurt in rural Arizona.
• 38:48
  So so they kind of lost track anyway, scrolling down, I'm just
• 38:56
  going to where is it? Key issues that they've
• 39:00
  identified is incomplete information from individuals who
• 39:03
  call the hotline. They say that mandated reporters
• 39:07
  often don't have all the information because they've just
• 39:11
  been told something from somebody else and that is an
• 39:13
  issue. Turnover and workload, I would
• 39:17
  imagine. Let me read this one.
• 39:19
  High turnover, low pay, intense caseloads and overwhelm
• 39:22
  supervisors impact the quality of case outcomes and increase
• 39:26
  burnout, I would imagine. So that's a tough job.
• 39:31
  It's a tough, tough, tough job. Key issue #3 engagement of a
• 39:37
  parent's significant other. The department noted challenges
• 39:41
  in engaging significant others, who often decline services.
• 39:44
  The courts cannot mandate their participation.
• 39:47
  As a result, staff may focus primarily on the biological
• 39:51
  parent, reducing advocacy for evaluating or supporting the
• 39:55
  significant other's role in the household.
• 39:58
  Then yeah, that looks like that needs to be a legislative
• 40:02
  remedy. Legal and Judicial Relationships
• 40:05
  DC s s Relationship with the legal and judicial community is
• 40:08
  strained by differing priorities and communication challenges.
• 40:11
  Frequent program changes, regional differences, and
• 40:14
  limited training contributed contribute to misunderstandings
• 40:18
  about available services. Staff Reliance on prior
• 40:21
  interactions The review found that staff frequently rely on
• 40:25
  historical reports and coworkers knowledge of a family's past
• 40:28
  Involvement in DCS. The review found the staff
• 40:31
  sometimes rely on private case information and their own and Co
• 40:35
  workers knowledge of the family's past with DCS.
• 40:37
  This reliance on historical findings and information
• 40:40
  influences how staff receive information and make decisions
• 40:43
  during new investigations. So it it does look like they're
• 40:47
  trying to make some positive changes here.
• 40:50
  It's too late for little Rebecca.
• 40:52
  Do you guys remember little Rebecca?
• 40:55
  Look at this little girl. Heartbreaking.
• 40:59
  Her parents are now, well, her dad and her stepmom are charged
• 41:04
  in her murder. So that is #1 number 23.
• 41:11
  Correction staff are on leave following Slender Man stabber
• 41:16
  Morgan Geyser's escape. We've been following this, but
• 41:20
  this came out a couple days ago. 3 Wisconsin Department of
• 41:23
  Corrections staff members are on administrative leave as the
• 41:27
  department investigates the escape last month of a woman
• 41:30
  convicted of a stabbing when she was in middle school.
• 41:35
  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, a timeline of events from the
• 41:37
  Madison Police Department said Someone from the group home
• 41:40
  reported Geyser is a missing person to the Police Department
• 41:43
  nearly 12 hours after she was last seen at the home.
• 41:47
  This was the first time the Madison Police Department was
• 41:50
  made aware that Geyser was missing, the timeline said.
• 41:56
  Let's see. The letter said the reports of
• 41:58
  the timeline raised serious questions about the ability of
• 42:01
  the DO CS Community Corrections program to handle its
• 42:04
  responsibilities. So, yeah, 33 DOC personnel are
• 42:13
  on leave on this one. I don't know that that will make
• 42:19
  it. It seems to me that this has
• 42:21
  gotten political, therefore I doubt anything's going to
• 42:28
  improve. Maybe it's just Friday and I'm
• 42:32
  tired. Maybe I need to get a little
• 42:35
  like my mom would say. Do you want me to slap some
• 42:37
  happy into you? Maybe I just need to get happy.
• 42:39
  Turn that frown upside down fish and or maybe I'm right.
• 42:45
  I don't know. Either way, OK, last headline I
• 42:47
  want to bring to you guys and I got some documents in this, so
• 42:51
  we might be talking about this on Monday.
• 42:54
  We finally have a date for Mickey Stein's next hearing.
• 43:00
  This coming to us from Mountaintop Media, Dateline,
• 43:03
  Whitesburg, Kentucky. A hearing has been scheduled in
• 43:05
  the case of former Letcher County Sheriff Sean Mickey
• 43:09
  Steins. Steins is charged with murdering
• 43:12
  with murder for shooting. Let me bring this one up for
• 43:18
  shooting Letcher District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times in
• 43:21
  his chambers on September 19th, 2024.
• 43:25
  The entire incident was captured on security cameras.
• 43:28
  Here is our victim, Judge Mullins.
• 43:30
  On Thursday, Special Judge Christopher Coran scheduled a
• 43:35
  hearing in Letcher Circuit Court for 1:30 PM Thursday, December
• 43:39
  18th. The hearing is intended to get
• 43:41
  an update on where the case stands from the prosecution and
• 43:45
  defense attorneys, as well as hear all pending motions.
• 43:48
  There is a bail motion pending? Yeah.
• 43:54
  The only motions that are currently pending before the
• 43:55
  court are a defense request to set bond in a prosecution motion
• 43:59
  to move the trial somewhere besides Letcher County or any of
• 44:02
  the counties surrounding it. However, additional motions
• 44:05
  could be filed prior to next week's hearing.
• 44:07
  And so I will keep my finger on the pulse on that one.
• 44:12
  And those are our headlines. Now let's move right into our
• 44:16
  final segment of the show. Let's get into three questions.
• 44:20
  It's three questions. With Gavin.
• 44:29
  Pow, you guys know the rules. You guys know the rules.
• 44:32
  OK, In this segment, I will answer 3 questions, questions
• 44:35
  that you yourselves have sent in.
• 44:38
  If you have a question for me, it could be about anything.
• 44:41
  Nothing is off the table. Everything is on the table.
• 44:46
  That's the other. That's the better way to say
• 44:47
  that everything's on the table. You can ask me whatever you
• 44:50
  want. Just e-mail your questions.
• 44:52
  Three questions at gavinfish.com.
• 44:53
  It is spelled out. THREE 3 questions at
• 44:56
  gavinfish.com and let's see what today's questions bring us.
• 45:01
  Question number one is top three cases.
• 45:04
  You want immediate resolution, justice for the victims.
• 45:08
  Well, the very top of that list is Ellen Greenberg.
• 45:13
  Very top tippy, tippy, tippy top is Ellen Greenberg.
• 45:19
  And there is only not resolution because of politics.
• 45:24
  And it drives me crazy #2 Amanda Winkowski.
• 45:28
  I want Erie County, New York, to admit that she was murdered and
• 45:33
  investigate it properly. We are now one year away, less
• 45:38
  than a year away for Amanda's, well, I would call him a a
• 45:44
  suspect in her murder. In less than a year, he is going
• 45:49
  to get, if I remember correctly, I think it's 2026.
• 45:53
  He's going to get out of prison, he's going to hurt someone else,
• 45:58
  and he is a person that belongs in jail for the rest of his
• 46:02
  life. So we've got Ellen, we've got
• 46:05
  Amanda. You know, one that I would
• 46:06
  really love to have some resolution to.
• 46:09
  This is an early one for me, one that I worked on early in my
• 46:13
  little YouTube journey. And that is the case of Shelby
• 46:16
  Thornburgh. That one comes out of Houston,
• 46:18
  TX. If you guys don't know about
• 46:20
  this case, if you go over to gavinfish.com and click on
• 46:25
  cases, there are several in here that are important to me.
• 46:31
  And if you scroll on down you will find where Shelby I went
• 46:37
  right past her. There she is, you'll find Shelby
• 46:39
  Thornburg. Shelby was murdered in her
• 46:42
  apartment in Houston, TX November 4th of 2015.
• 46:48
  That is one that I would love, love, love some resolution on.
• 46:53
  All right. Question #2 Oh, I think I did it
• 46:58
  backwards. OK.
• 46:59
  Am IA good cook? No, no, not really.
• 47:05
  Not a good cook. My mom was a good cook.
• 47:09
  Kimberly is a good cook. Kimberly says she's not a good
• 47:12
  cook, but she is a good cook. Her maybe signature dish is
• 47:20
  homemade Mac and cheese, which is a little different now
• 47:24
  because because we are a gluten free home now because our our
• 47:29
  daughter's celiac disease. So it's not quite as good as it
• 47:32
  once was, but it's still pretty freaking delicious.
• 47:36
  She's a good cook and she's very well known in our family for her
• 47:40
  amazing salads. She is she's awesome.
• 47:43
  But am IA good cook. There are a few things that I
• 47:46
  know how to make. I I do make good empanadas.
• 47:50
  I make good empanadas and I and I do different ones.
• 47:52
  I do, I'll do the savory stuff. We'll do the ham and cheese.
• 47:57
  I'll do you know, chicken empanadas.
• 48:00
  I'll do beef empanadas, but then I'll also do the, the dessert
• 48:04
  ones. Little dulce de batata.
• 48:07
  Yeah, I'm good at those. I'm a very good Baker.
• 48:12
  I, I love making my own bread. However, because of the
• 48:17
  aforementioned celiac disease, our house is and will forever be
• 48:22
  a gluten free place, and so I don't do that anymore.
• 48:28
  Oh, and I, I do love making pizza and I have a pretty darn
• 48:33
  amazing recipe for gluten free pizza crust, which is made out
• 48:40
  of Brazilian cheese bread. And it's a little recipe that I,
• 48:45
  that I made that I'm pretty darn good at.
• 48:47
  And so there are a couple things that I'm good at, but no, no, I
• 48:52
  think there's anything else. Kimberly makes this dish that in
• 48:56
  our family we call Nauvoo potatoes and other places they
• 48:59
  call funeral potatoes. Listen, if you don't know Mormon
• 49:01
  funeral potatoes, you gotta, you gotta, OK, They're so good.
• 49:07
  Kimberly makes amazing Nauvoo potatoes.
• 49:08
  She learned that from her mom, who learned it from her mom, who
• 49:11
  learned it from her mom, all the way back to The Pioneers that
• 49:14
  cross the frigid plains. All right, and question #3
• 49:19
  Gavin, if you could not have this career, journalism, media,
• 49:23
  YouTube, what do you think you would be doing?
• 49:25
  No wishful thinking. Well, my dream when I was a kid,
• 49:32
  you just said no wishful thinking, Dang it.
• 49:35
  But I'll tell you my dream anyway.
• 49:37
  When I was a kid, my dad, my dad worked in aerospace,
• 49:40
  specifically in propulsion, specifically in rocketry,
• 49:44
  specifically in solid, solid fuel boosters.
• 49:50
  So I was just smitten by and also being a Gen.
• 49:56
  Xer, I was smitten by the space race, but I was smitten by all
• 50:00
  things aviation. And so my, my plan was to be
• 50:06
  either. I wanted Air Force, but it could
• 50:08
  have been Navy, a Navy pilot, Air Force pilot and then try out
• 50:16
  for NASA and go into the whole astronaut training.
• 50:20
  That was that was like that was my dream and that's what I was
• 50:23
  working toward. Unfortunately for me, when I was
• 50:26
  in 8th grade, I went to go get glasses and I got a diagnosis of
• 50:31
  severe, what is called what we refer to as color blindness.
• 50:36
  It's not really color blindness, but but a severe color
• 50:40
  deficiency. And that made it impossible for
• 50:43
  me to be any type of commercial pilot, which meant no military,
• 50:49
  no NASA, no nothing. So I guess if I were wishfully
• 50:55
  thinking, I would be a pilot. But since I'm not wishfully
• 50:59
  thinking, yeah, at this point in my life, comedy would be fun, I
• 51:11
  think of like Bob Newhart, who was an accountant and in his 50s
• 51:15
  decided to, or maybe as earlier than that, his 40s, he decided
• 51:21
  to try comedy and he smashed it. He just killed it, you know, So
• 51:25
  maybe comedy. I do enjoy making people laugh.
• 51:32
  But honestly, at this point in my life, I honestly don't care
• 51:36
  what I do. And one of the things that I may
• 51:38
  be criticized for. Fairly and run fairly.
• 51:46
  One of the things that I'm criticized for is that I did not
• 51:50
  pick a career path and stick with it.
• 51:53
  You know, I tried college, I hated college.
• 51:57
  I did well in college, hated it. So I went to work for a company
• 52:03
  called Packard Bell NEC that offered on the job technical
• 52:07
  training. And then so I went to, they
• 52:09
  called it Packard Bell University.
• 52:11
  And I learned all sorts of things in computer science and
• 52:15
  information technology, mostly starting in information
• 52:17
  technology and then kind of going into computer science.
• 52:21
  And that's what looked like my career was going to be, I lost a
• 52:27
  job pretty early on in our marriage.
• 52:30
  In fact, I showed you that picture of the day that I wanted
• 52:33
  to the day I got laid off and Kimberly said, what are we going
• 52:36
  to do? And I said, we're going to go
• 52:37
  flying. I, I think I showed that
• 52:39
  picture. I got laid off that day and kind
• 52:44
  of the.com bubble had burst at that point.
• 52:47
  And so I couldn't, couldn't find work.
• 52:51
  So I started my own company. I'm going to look for that
• 52:56
  photo. I started my own company to Oh
• 53:05
  no, I didn't, I didn't upload it to this tank to help small and
• 53:09
  medium sized businesses with their IT needs.
• 53:14
  Kimberly and I were able to sell that company.
• 53:16
  And then we started another company, which was a huge, huge,
• 53:20
  huge failure, was completely outside of my expertise.
• 53:25
  And then I went to work in high end audio.
• 53:28
  And so I did high end audio for a long time and now I am a
• 53:33
  reporter and a YouTube I have. My career path has been jagged.
• 53:40
  It has been straight Strait, not STRAIGHT or however it has been
• 53:48
  difficult, rocky and jagged at this point in my life.
• 53:55
  I really enjoy doing YouTube though.
• 53:57
  It's been tough, guys. It has been tough.
• 54:01
  I think I'm going to lose money in December for the first time.
• 54:06
  It's been really tough. And I'm very appreciative of
• 54:10
  those of you who support me, man, you guys are awesome.
• 54:12
  But anyway, I am at a point in my life where I don't care what
• 54:17
  it is that I do, as long as it provides for my family and for
• 54:21
  our retirement. I would do anything and would
• 54:25
  would happily do so. And I'm not looking for another
• 54:28
  job, but hey, if something came my way that was lucrative and
• 54:33
  would accomplish my goals, I would take that job.
• 54:37
  I think I would stick with YouTube because I enjoy it so
• 54:39
  much and it doesn't take too much time.
• 54:41
  But what I really hope is that YouTube becomes the thing.
• 54:46
  Let me just check. So those those are your three
• 54:48
  questions. Gavin Fish.
• 54:58
  Yeah. All right.
• 54:59
  So Dreed, 1058, last comment of the day.
• 55:07
  Is it Dreed or Deed Dreed, do you think his defense was
• 55:11
  actually competent? I think his final arguments were
• 55:13
  ridiculous. Yeah, I think that there is a
• 55:15
  difference between a competent defense and I think competent
• 55:21
  and ridiculous can coexist. Yeah.
• 55:25
  He made what I think on its face is a ridiculous argument.
• 55:28
  But I think it was the only argument they could make.
• 55:30
  And I think it as a competent attorney, he had to choose to go
• 55:34
  that route. And so, yeah, I think that's.
• 55:41
  Yeah. Hope that answers.
• 55:45
  Let's see. Anna Banana 123 says straight.
• 55:48
  I love that. I'm 46 and just finished
• 55:51
  Graduate School this semester. Ah, good.
• 55:52
  Anya and got a new job with the degree in September.
• 55:56
  Took me 5 1/2 years working in warehouses to go to school.
• 55:59
  Anna Bana, not Anna Banana, Anna Bana 123.
• 56:04
  You are a a great example for the rest of us.
• 56:08
  Good job. That is amazing.
• 56:11
  You know, years ago in, in our congregation, years and years
• 56:16
  ago, I think Kimberly and I were still in our, I think we just
• 56:19
  bought our first house and we had this Sunday school teacher
• 56:24
  who was like, she seemed like she was like 110 years old, but
• 56:28
  she was probably like in her 80s.
• 56:30
  And she had decided in her 50s that she wanted to be a lawyer.
• 56:37
  And she went to law school and she, you know, worked and did
• 56:43
  the did the bar, passed the bar, hung a shingle and became known
• 56:49
  as one of the one of the greats in the area for her particular
• 56:54
  field of the law. So, yeah, it's never too late.
• 56:57
  We can all be Bob Newhart. We can be Anna Bana.
• 57:00
  We can be Elizabeth Jones, Right?
• 57:03
  That's pretty freaking awesome. You are a terrific example for
• 57:07
  us. Thanks for thanks for sharing
• 57:08
  that. Hey guys, We're not going to be
• 57:12
  back tomorrow because it's the weekend, but we will be back on
• 57:15
  Monday. We will be talking a bit about
• 57:17
  Kevin's, Kevin Mullins, Mickey Stein's.
• 57:20
  We will be on jury verdict watch on the on Walsh case and
• 57:28
  anything else. Yeah, be an Anna Banna.
• 57:34
  Just don't be Brian Walsh. That's a great way to finish it.
• 57:39
  Thanks guys. I bid you.
• 57:41
  I do, and I'll see you on the next one.
• 57:42
  Take care. Thank you very much for watching
• 57:45
  this video. If you liked what you saw,
• 57:47
  please consider subscribing. And if you have any questions or
• 57:51
  comments, please leave them below.