Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Pushing Limits with Sean Rimmer The Intersection of Running and Wellness

Transcript

Pushing Limits with Sean Rimmer The Intersection of Running and Wellness · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, your source for all things sub-ultra.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Larello.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to dive into an episode with my good buddy, sean Rimmer.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Sean is a local to the Colorado Springs area, just like myself.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: He is a doctor of physical therapy.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: He is the owner of Run Potential PT, which is a thriving physical therapy business in the greater Colorado Springs area.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Sean is also a mountain runner, he's a marathoner and, most importantly, a good friend.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Into this episode we dive into all things mountain running.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We talk about Sean's background, both as an athlete and as a practitioner, everything from his days growing up to his collegiate years to where he's at now.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: We talk about the marathon he's training for and his upcoming racing calendar.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: We talk about some common injuries related to runners that Sean typically sees and how he treats them.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Last but not least, we dive into some crazy questions.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: We talk about our mountain running goats.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: We talk about some legends of the sport, some up and comers on the short distance mountain running scene.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Finally, we get into some weird stuff concerning aliens, bigfoot and Grizzly Bears in Colorado.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Everyone buckle up.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy my friend Sean Remmer.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: A marathon.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: My background is mostly the trails and mountains, which obviously that's how we met.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I always wanted to go for a marathon.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I said, why not now?
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I'm only getting older.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: You're running, I'm going to say Boston, You're running Buffalo right, yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: So Buffalo marathon, and actually it'll be my first road marathon.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I've never done one, I've never really been inspired to do one, but over the past year, year and a half, I've just gotten more into different services, different distances.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: So I don't know Something inspired me to want to do my home city marathon as my first and hopefully qualify for Boston.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: All right, all right, that's exciting, but we'll see.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: The weather is an aspect that you can't control, but I think for me, the biggest thing is making sure I'm doing the best I can, training wise and staying on top of hitting the pace as I need to and training and the volume to get there.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Feeling strong at the start line.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Dude, I'm excited for you.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Me too.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: We're live, by the way, welcome, dude.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: We are live to the Steep Self podcast Everybody.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: We have a special guest in the house today.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: His name is Sean Rimmer, entrepreneur, athlete.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: He's the owner of Run Potential PT and, yeah, he's training for a marathon, amongst many other things.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Dude, if you go ahead and introduce yourself, yeah, so thanks for having me.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: James, Super excited to be here.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: You know I've known you for a little while now.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: It seems like been a few years now, Dude we've been bros for some time now.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: We the story of how we met.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: We slid it.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget it.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I was at the Rose was running the Gorge Waterfalls 50K.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: So we were out in Cascade Locks, oregon.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I looked into those DMs and there was a Run Potential PT DM in there.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my God, I got up running buddy Now that's, that's how things start right.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: You're strangers and then you become good friends.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: But I think just the mindset of really loving the trails, really loving the mountains, and just how we the playground we have in Colorado, it just makes it that much more exciting and fun to run with other people who share the same joy.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: So, best DM ever, ever.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: That's right, bro.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Best DM.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I ever slid in.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I should say, yeah, I've been good friends since so super excited.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Heck, yeah, so, yeah, dude, so introduce yourself, talk a little bit about your background and yeah, let's go from there, yeah, so let's see, I think, tying a few things in here, so between me being a runner and also a physical therapist.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: So background on me I grew up in upstate New York, western New York and Buffalo, grew up playing a variety of different sports lacrosse, hockey, soccer, basketball, most of the ball sports that traditionally parents will put you in but I never really loved running.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It was always kind of a punishment in sport, like if you missed a pass or if you did something bad.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: It's like take a lap and get the lab in right.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And so it was just that mindset of like, yeah, this isn't like fun, but it's part of the game.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And so growing up through high school, I played all those sports.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I ended up playing college lacrosse in Long Island a Division II program and we had to run a lot they tell you even going into it it's like cross country basically, the amount of running you have to do, just because it's such a demanding sport and it's a field sport.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: And so I started actually training more in running, just for lacrosse.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: But what did you play?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Were you like a midi?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Were you a tack?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Like what did you?
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: great question.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So definitely not a midi.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I wish I could say I was being a runner now and enjoying endurance, but I played attack, which is basically the forward position in lacrosse, and so where I really excelled was my shooting, my stick skills, ability, like that aspect, but also the agility and the change of direction.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: So in lacrosse it's pretty fun.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: You can actually go behind the net, not like in a lot of sports like soccer or even like basketball, things like that.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: So I played the X position, which was behind the net, and I always found it the most exciting where the change of direction behind the net and trying to get the defender to trip over the backside of the net, because the defender could move through the crease, which is something we couldn't go through, but they could hop over the backside of the net and I would always try to change direction behind the net to get them to trip and then get around the net and either score or feed it to another player.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So that change of direction is kind of what inspired me into running, where I liked the agility, the technicality component of getting into the trails, and so that's kind of like where it started.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: But the biggest thing for me, what really got me into trail running was.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to let you take a guess.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Here's a clue A book.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, Born to Run yes.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, Wow, I always thought that was like such like a cliche Like I've never met.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I've always heard it in like podcasts where people are like oh yeah, this got me into running, but I've never the first person I've ever met, I swear.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I read that.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So I read that book in 2013 or 2014, I think, and so about 10 years ago now, and like I was just so into the story and I think, just how Chris McDougal put everything, the characters, like the adventure of it, I literally wanted to go grab shoes and get out on the trails.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I've never read it.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Like it's in my Spotify audiobooks and I keep seeing it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I know he's got like another book like Running with German.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Just about running with the burrow or whatever, which you know Colorado tie, yeah.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah and so, yeah, that's the book that really got me into it, and for me, an ultra distance at the time sadly felt like a five to eight mile trail run.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: It felt like an eternity when you're used to running two to three miles for like a few times a week training for the cross and doing more of like the sprint work.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: But I just got so into it, the story.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: It just was so inspiring and then, yeah, I really haven't looked back on the trail running side of it because that was really what truly drew me in at first.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you did a bunch of races in New York, right?
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: So like all, right, so we're in college, we do colleges across.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You're graduated now.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Did you start running like after or before Like?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: How did like?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Where did trail running come onto the scene after you read the book?
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a great question.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I read the book actually this summer I so I played lacrosse for two years and then I transferred back to Buffalo to the introduction into PT school and grad school, and so it was that summer I read the book and I was like, ah, I just someone had recommended it, I believe, and then I got into it and, in just having a competitive outlet playing lacrosse and other sports, I knew that I wasn't going to have that now.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, okay, running, there's always races somewhere so like that could be a way for me to be competitive but also stay fit, healthy and you can do it anywhere.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And so that's really where things started.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: What was the other question?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: So how did we get it so?
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're in college, we go from college, we graduate, read the book and then like, so for me, like running, like how I became this runner of whoever I am now or whatever I think I am, Like I literally it was an off the bench 5K that I did that.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I just happened to run like a 17 minute 5K and I was like, oh shit, I could, I can, I could do this or do something.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So, like, where did like you, like, where did what race did you find?
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: That was like, okay, I'm going to pursue this, whether it be trail, whether it be road, whether whatever you know.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: That is also a great question.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I was never the fastest person.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I'm still not now, I'm decently fast but I was never like, oh, I can literally just go run a 17 minute 5K or even 18 minute.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: In my defense it was a 1756, so almost 18.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: That's still fast, still fast and very respectable.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't think there was like a.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Especially in New York there was like an early race that I like did great in and that I was like super inspired to, to like progress off.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: That.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: It was more of like I love the feeling of like kind of suffering.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I think we all have to have that a little bit in this sport, yeah, and then knowing it's like it's on me Right.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: So in a team sports, you, you have all their players, but running is literally it's like okay, what's your training and and you're running, and then how mentally strong are you to get to the finish line as fast as you can and whatever race distance it is.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: But what I would say, what really got me into the mountain running was I actually did.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: My friend asked me to sign up for a VK and I was like what the heck is a VK?
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: The white face VK right yes.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: So upstate New York Adirondacks are like the mountain range that we have and they're part of like the Appalachian, and so white face was one of the higher peaks up in near Lake Placid and so I had been up there, I'd hiked up there, you know kayak things like that, and it's a beautiful place.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: So when he asked me, I'm like yes, absolutely, we're going to do this and we're going to figure it out, and so I'd been running before that, but nothing like literally up a mountain, Like it was so steep 3,200 feet or whatever.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and it was.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It was rugged too.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like it.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a trail, it wasn't like a fire road.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: It was literally straight up the ski hill with tall grass.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: It was muddy, it was true, like East coast running, or I should say hiking so for me at least.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: And so I really enjoyed that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: I pushed myself.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: It was, like I said, only a 5k total distance, I believe, but just you know, you're just heart rates up the whole time getting to the top of the mountain.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: But when I got up there it was super foggy.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: We were above the clouds and I was just like man, like mountains are for me, this is fun yeah.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Mountains are for me.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Type two fun Right, I was right before I actually ended up moving to Colorado.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: So I was like, all right, it's going to be playtime once I get out to Colorado, can enjoy all the mountains we have out there.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And you moved to Colorado.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: This was after PT school or during.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the white face was the summer.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: So I graduated from PT school in 2016, in May.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: So I basically took the summer off because I had to study for my boards exam, which was in July.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And then, as soon as I took that, I packed, packed ship and drove out to Colorado because I had a job already and so, yeah, it was like a two month span that I was running in New York and that's and I think the race, the white phase sorry, the white face VK was in July.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So it was like a few weeks before I moved to Colorado.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Nice dude.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Now listeners.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know, I mean we've alluded a lot to you know Sean being a PT, but I didn't really talk about the fact that he's like a miracle worker.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I've come to Sean with multiple existential crises throughout my running career, usually once a year, sometimes twice, and fixes me up right away and has me, you know, really kind of on my way and ready to go.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I mean he could fix short term problems and long term problems.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: So yeah, dude, I mean with you can go ahead and we could talk about some of those things if you want.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I'd love to.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we can talk about kind of where I'm at as a PT and kind of the growth in that and we're in it.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: So so I'm actually a.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I've been a physical therapist now since 2016,.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So about eight years, and for about six of those years I worked for a company here in Colorado the University of Colorado Health and again, it was a great experience.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot, great people helped save some money, things like that.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: But even in PT school I always knew I wanted to do my own thing, working with motivated people, working with athletes, something along that aspect.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: But getting so heavily involved in running, I realized that I really had a passion for working with runners because I was one of them.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I understood the mentality of running and, if you couldn't run, how that affects just your mental, emotional health.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And then also the aspect of running injuries and there's definitely a specific set of running related injuries.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: We see commonly in runners just being the nature of running itself, but other things that also affect running that may come up based on your job or something else you do, where maybe, like, things get stiff and then you feel the pain when you're running and things like that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And so differentiating those things I think could be important to talk about for people.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: But again, bringing back to why I got into PT as a and the running side is just because the community here is so, so excellent.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Working with all the people I've worked with and yeah, I just I don't see it personally as a job.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I obviously I need to make a living, but I just I really love working with the people in the community here that you go to work every day and it just feels like I'm going to hang out with some friends.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I mean I can attest to that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Like, we've been on multiple runs where I'm talking about like shitty corporate life, being living the corporate I guess you could say just live in the corporate life in general.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: And I was like man, you know, because you had said to me like didn't you consider at one point in time like being an engineer, going to school for engineering, and yeah, and then we kind of pivoted to you're like I love my job, I love what I do and yeah, dude, it's very easy and you can see the smile on your face and you could see and it's so much fun to I can see how much fun you're having.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Like, for instance, like one of the things I came to you for, I thought I had nebrositis right, and you showed me a couple of different movements that I had to do because it was really up the chain right, because I wasn't doing the appropriate things up the chain that I needed to be doing, whether it be stretching, whether it be certain movements.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: You showed me a few movements that I needed to do to kind of release that tension and that issue.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: That really wasn't necessarily bersitis, and just seeing you solve those problems to me was just very interesting and very fulfilling on your end.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It seemed like.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thank you for that.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I think again back to what you mentioned about the engineering, if I just dovetail on that quickly.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was going to go initially to school for engineering because I really loved math and science in school prior to that and that seemed fitting.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: But I also, speaking about what you just said, I really loved critical thinking and problem solving and as much as that may be a part of engineering on the physical therapy side, that's basically what we're doing all the time.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It's critical thinking, problem solving and relationships and communication with people and tying all that together, and I think that's where I do my best to help people.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Having a knowledge base is one thing, but putting the pieces together and understanding someone's life what's going on with their running, obviously, looking at their movement, everything comes to play with pain and how it's affected in your body, and so having enough time to spend with people to do all that and work with them through their problems is really the most rewarding thing.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, if we talk a little bit about run potential, which is my business, I started in 2022 now, so literally about two years.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: It's a physical therapy practice here in Colorado Springs where I also focus on performance training for runners as well as coaching so kind of the whole aspect of rehab to performance.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And so I try to focus on working with runners and I would say about 85% of the people I work with are runners.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: And then occasionally I'll get some other family, friends or a word of mouth from other people who worked with me who just said, hey, you don't have to be a runner if you go see Sean, he'll still be able to help you out.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: So the people I get to work with has been the most rewarding because they're like-minded, right, they're motivated, they're paying to be there.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I get to spend more time with them.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: It's not like what I used to do through the insurance realm, which is still really big in physical therapy, but you just wouldn't have enough time to spend with people in that realm and it just really wasn't fulfilling, and so that was part of the reason why I wanted to start my own practice.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Pretty cool man, pretty cool.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: It's exciting for me and it's exciting, it's been exciting for the last few years to see you grow both personally, professionally, entrepreneurially.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Like what is your plan?
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Do you wanna like how big do you wanna grow the practice?
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Like where do you wanna take it?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Do you always wanna be in the springs?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Like what's your like long-term plan for it?
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: So I think that's still evolving.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I have certain goals, but right now it's trying to build my brand, build a culture within the community here in the Colorado Springs, and right now it's just me.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, I think it would be helpful to bring on more staff, more PTs to work with.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: In the back of my mind, I know that would be helpful, but also, knowing me and how much I care and how much I put into working with the people I work with, it's hard for me sometimes to see other people to put in the same amount of effort and care as I do, and I think that's a fallacy because there are other people like that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: It's just making sure if I do bring someone on, I can find the right person, and so that's part of my plan in the long haul, but also building more of like an online community, and so, as much as I'm in the Springs right now working with people in person and coaching remotely, I think there's value in building my brand and run potential more than just locally and throughout Colorado, even throughout the United States, because ultimately I wanna help people and it doesn't matter.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I don't wanna limit myself to just the region.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I think there's avenues to help people in a broader aspect learn to move better, learn to run better, how to manage injuries and also how to perform better, because ultimately, everyone wants to PR.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: That's true, that's true, yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah and dude.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Speaking of community, I think Colorado Springs, I mean just to me is just like so slept on for like how much talent, like running like all right first of all, like Matt Carpenter lives here, joe Gray lives here, like we have so much history, so much talent, and it is just like consistently slept on for areas like Boulder, right, that everybody, you know, everybody talks about how you know Boulder is this or is that you know, but Colorado Springs, in my opinion, is Mecca.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, would you agree that we have some of the best trails like ever?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: here 100%.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And, James, don't give away our secret.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: I know right, Too many people are gonna move here now like us, it's true, but I would 100% agree and, to be honest, like we have everything here.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: We have Pikes Peak, a 14er and our backyard.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: We have a ton of variety of rolling trails, steep trails, single track, double track, some technicality in trails, and then we have like the flat stuff too, if you wanna run on the Greenway Trail, things like that.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even to like Santa.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Fe, like Exactly.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I mean I remember when I before I even knew this place existed like I used to be coached by Hayden Hawks and I remember Hayden and Matt Daniels like Matt Daniels used to live here so they did like a training session out here and I remember Hayden saying and like putting it all over Strava and then even saying, like yo dude monument in like Colorado Springs is legit and like you said, like we have, you can get to a 14er in 13 miles, 26 or 13, if you decide to take the train, like me, you know Right, you've got the stairs.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: There's the legs, you can actually have everything.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for me and my upcoming schedule, like it's just so nice to train here, you know, and like we have so many good people, like the community is incredible, you know, and it's nice that we have a growing number of elites and sub elites and people that, like you know, are just so committed and I mean like you even like opened my eyes and showed me, you know, through like the sunrise striders when we went there during Thanksgiving.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: That was incredible.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: And you get to the top of the incline and there's a party going on up there.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: It's like so fun.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, big time, but yeah no, and you're a staple of the community, which is exciting, you know, and it's exciting to watch you grow and watch, you know, your footprint in the community grow.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: When I was talking about schedule, though, like how this place helps me grow my schedule, like what's your schedule looking like for this year as far as, like some of the you know, other than the marathon that you have coming up in Buffalo, and we can even dive deeper into that as well.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: But talk to me a little bit more about your schedule, Excuse me.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: And yeah, what your plans are for the summer, dude.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, being the earlier in the year, my A races, like I said, the Buffalo Marathon in the end of May, but I did throw in a trail race leading up to that.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: It's actually one of Aravipa, the trail races in the Royal Gorge, which is down in Canyon City, about an hour south of Colorado Springs, and so I decided to jump into the 30 K and, to be honest, I wanted to race again while I'm building my fitness and I thought that this 30 K race really fit well with my training schedule, to have a little competition and test the legs test the fitness, even though I haven't done much trail running in the past few months.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: But I think it'll just give me a little more excitement in the build.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: And I miss you on the trails, dude.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: The last time we were on, remember the last time we were on a trail run we were trudging through what?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Half a foot of snow on Longs Ranch Road dying.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, you know, in Royal Gorge is like such a great race, like I've ran that right.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: We were talking earlier off air and we were talking about that route.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: I've run it a couple of times and it's just, it's such a fast race and it's in a beautiful area like that Gorge.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Have you been down there before?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So I've been down there, I've rafted, actually, through the Gorge, which is pretty epic, highly recommended, because it's like you're in the canyon, the walls are huge, so very cool.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: But I have never run down there, I've just mountain biked, okay.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Have you, dude, there's a V for Rada there too.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: That's where I was doing ahead of Broken Arrow last year.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I was doing a ton of probably every Sunday.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I was going down there and doing the VIA and, oh, dude, it's amazing.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot down there.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I think, being so close, it's a nice access point to hit a lot of things, but it's just we have so much in Colorado, so it's like what do I want to pick and choose where I get the race and go, so it just spicing it up a little bit.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: So Royal Gorge, that's in April.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Are you like me at all?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like I have to test myself.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Sometimes.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like, if I, because I'll have a season, season ends September, October I don't do a lot of winter training, but I don't do a ton of winter racing.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: And then April, May, comes around and I'm like, oh my God, do I still remember how to do this?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Can I still race?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Can I throw down?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Are you like that in a lot of ways?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Or are you just one of those people that shows up confident, runs your own race?
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: You don't even think about the people there.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: That is a great question.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I think it depends on the race, it depends on the time of the year, distance, all of those things.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: You know, being in the winter, I do some shorter races locally too that just kind of help me like have a little bit of that competition and push myself.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: But when it comes to the long races like or the mountain races that I really have as a goal, I really want to make sure I can have the training that reflects whatever my goal is.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: And so having good training partners but like having those hard training runs and workouts, really give me confidence leading into the race versus something in a workout that may not reflect what I want to do in the race and there could be discrepancy there.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: So just the confidence of training really makes me feel prepared at the race line, gotcha.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: That's well done.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I see I and dude, I'm like I'm confident in my training, can be confident, but, dude, I show up and I'm still a ball of nerves.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Like I'm always like ready, especially like at the start line.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I like I can't imagine, like what some of my stress levels get to or what my resting heart rate is.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I'm always so nervous and you know it's a funny thing is like you always end up with a similar result.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Like it's like how much work do you put in?
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: You know equals what you're more than likely going to get out of it.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's some tactics, depending on what type of race you're racing, how competitive it is.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm a ball of nerves always.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: That's not a bad thing.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I think that's pretty normal.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I also feel that one of the things I it's always helped me is like it's helped me to get out of myself and like, turn, like find that gear to be able to do this is unhealthy.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Please, people, don't do this, but turn yourself inside out.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So we perform a little bit above, whatever your fitness level might be.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: It's definitely helped.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And I think, speaking on that, that's as much as the training helps get you to those races.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I think having those B races, c races, still help because you can still push yourself and get more out of it in that race.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Competitive environment versus like a training run and so sprinkling those in throughout the year I think are really valuable, definitely.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Definitely so.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: We've got roll gourds, we've got Buffalo Marathon.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Little birdie told me that you might be considering a series Alaska this year, little birdie.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, so just before that I have the Leadville heavy half.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Just love that community, love that race series.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to be out there for that weekend, the end of June, and so I'll do the heavy half then.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: So yeah, speaking about circus series, so the one in Alaska, alaska.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Alaska, alaska, alaska, alaska, alaska, alaska, alaska, Alaska, alaska, alaska, alaska.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: So I didn't know how to pronounce it, but Gerd Wood, what a cool, weird name.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I just so.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I saw the photos from Cirque series on Instagram.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like this one looks incredible, like just the technicality, the scenery, the steepness.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I done I had done the A basin one and then it's again awesome race.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: But I think just the environment out there just looks so different that I was like I want to be out there, dude.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going next year.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I already told Rose for a one year, like we're not even married yet.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: I already told her for a one year anniversary we're going to Alaska, so I can race this race.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: The reason, though, that it's a potential for me is because one of my good friends I went to PT school with, and he's he's a runner hiker.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: He actually took a job up in Anchorage, which I believe is like maybe an hour away Right there yeah, it's not far away because he asked me to go skiing there and I'm like, oh, I know that place Cirque series and so I'm like maybe I can hit you up this summer, stay with you and we can do that race.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: So that's also potential for like mid summer which would be epic to do a trip up there.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And then, following that, my big second part of the year A race would be Pikes Peak.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, we're doing the ascent again, ascent again, and my my theme this year has just been sub three.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: So sub three the goal for marathon, for the road, and then sub three would be the goal for Pikes Peak ascent.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I wanted to get it last year.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I had some issues with injuries and illness leading up to it and so I knew early on in the race I wouldn't get there.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: But I said still, let's have a day and enjoy it and do the best.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: But this year I really want to hit that goal as well as my marathon goal.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Now, all right.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you a PT question here.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I'm curious because I'm going to.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going to strength phase right now.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So, for those of you don't know, I'm racing the all of the Cirque series races this year, minus snowbird and minus Aliasca, unfortunately.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to strength phase right now, where I'm trying to obviously develop strength, get stronger, you know, get better turnover, work on certain things that I don't want to show up later in the season.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: So, from a PT perspective, we're looking at Aliasca.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Six miles with almost 4,000 feet of vert.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: And then we're looking at the, you know, the ascent.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: The ascent is a half marathon with almost 8,000 feet of vertical gain.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Now, the ascent is obviously different demands because it's a straight uphill race.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: But, like, from a strength and conditioning perspective, like, what are you doing and what would you recommend maybe to for someone to do from a strength perspective?
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: To, you know, increase your chances to get strong and, to, you know, just be prepared for race day.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question, I think, breaking it down into the two pieces right.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: So for me at least, the ascent is just an uphill.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: So that's a different type of training than uphill and downhill.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: And so if we talk about just the Cirque series type race, first being traditionally steep up technical and then also steep down technical, if we break those two down, the uphill really it's it's your engine right, it's your the cardiac output, your respiratory function, like that's a big piece of it, but also your strength and efficiency and moving uphill.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And so practicing, obviously with your running and type of terrain is is important for specificity.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: But if we talk about the gym, like really the big players are going to be your glute tissue, your glute max, your calf tissue and then your quads and so obviously those are big muscle groups for all of running.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: But for uphill, like you really want to be solid through there and I think for a lot of people what I see neglecting in strength training and performance training is not doing as much.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Plyometrics, our tendon systems between our muscles and tendons, are like the gold to train for any type of running, because that's where you get so much efficiency and storage and release of kind of free energy, that when your muscles contract, that puts a stress on the tendon and that allows us to get some spring.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: And so when?
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: And so when you're running uphill, finding that if you can have the right grade of movement where you don't have to hike, because that's that's a different demand but you want to be taking smaller steps, you want to be shorter ground contact so we can use more of that tendon system, and what that may look like in the gym is variations of hops, single leg, bilateral, doing it under load, because that really allows us to train a short ground contact but also to teach that tissue to be springy and to reduce fatigue when you're already going to be maxed out climbing.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: And so I see people lifting heavy and I think that's great, but I think when you do that, you're missing the speed of contraction, you're missing the tendon, and so I think building pure strength, but also the fast movements, building your spring system, are something that you just don't see as much.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: At least I don't know, and you know and it's so, and you could see that in certain strides, like one of the best strides, like he'll listen to this and he's going to laugh.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: But my coach, eli, when he runs uphill it's just like these little taps and he looks so effortless.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And you realize, for someone that knows what they're doing, the way, if he's whatever, he's running up whatever grade, like that is not an easy thing to do and he makes it look so effortless and easy.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: So I can only imagine, like you know, like in the gym, you know what type of movements you know he's putting in and stuff like that it's pretty cool.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, first of all, I mean just super strong engine he has.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've watched a lot of their mountain running and yeah, he's a beast.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: But but also, yes, speaking to your point, he looks light on his feet, he's short ground contact.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: He's not like powering against the mountain, he's working with it.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And I think if you can teach your body to work with the mountain and you can teach that tendon system to use that to get uphill, where the muscle is not having to do as much work, it's it's turning on and when it turns on, that allows that tendon to stretch and we get that storage and release of energy.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Versus if your foot's on the ground too long or you're reaching, you're going to be way more fatigued because you're just trying to force yourself up the mountain or you're using the tissue that is going to fatigue faster and so it's trying to dial in your mechanics.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: But also that, like I said, that muscle tendon system, which is huge, yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: So that's the, the uphill of Alaska.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Now, the downhill of Alaska, I think there's like one, I think there's like two miles where I think you're losing like 1500 feet.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: So how does one not destroy quads on that?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Well, full disclaimer you, you will destroy your quads.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: How does one not get wrapped up?
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: So building that in your training, both running down steep stuff, but also in the gym, and so any movement that has any centric components, especially in the quads and the calf tissue, that's going to be stressed running fast down steep hills, steep mountains I should say you want to try to work on, and so that could look like as simple as single leg squats where you're really focusing on heavy weight but also a slow lowering component, because that's what's going to happen when you're running downhill or we're training the lengthening of muscle tissue that has to control the demands of moving downhill and gravity.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: And that's where I would almost recommend people starting and as they get more specific in a training you'd want to have the centric as well, but more specific to the amount of motion in the knee that would occur and running, and so that could be less depth but maybe a higher load and a higher speed.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: So to give an example, I like to use a Smith machine a lot, just because it takes away a little bit of stability If you're in the Smith machine and you're in a single leg hold and you have some weight on it.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Basically what you're doing is small, like a knee bending contractions, but doing it kind of quickly and so it starts to train that overload demand of running downhill and preparing your tissues basically to handle it Because you're going to.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: It's going to be challenging during the race but I think the more you can just get that tissue used to that similar contraction under load that you're going to not die out as much in a race and make sure you can have enough juice in the quads to get you to the finish line Dude, I'm so excited for this race.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to go next year.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I'm so bummed that this is in the year for it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I would like to go up there with you and get it done, but it's kind of nice because I'll have your splits for next year.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully, like I said, hopefully I can get up there, but if I do, I'm going to take advantage of it and just do what I do the best I can with the fitness built from all that road build up early in the year.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, dude, that's going to be some good translation, so back to the I'm sorry, I look like you were going to.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to see.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: That's all I was going to say.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I've never done a long enough road build like this, but I feel like I'm getting fitter, of course, and faster, so I'm just super interested to see how that translates to the trails and mountains come summertime.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: You probably told me this already.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: What's the date of the Buffalo race?
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: So it's May 26th with it, which is the day before Memorial Day.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not far out and what's that course.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Look like, is it hilly at all or is it flat, like what's the deal?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: It's pretty flat.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I mean there's some, I think there's geez, maybe it just like a few hundred feet total.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: So relative to what we run out here, even like the Greenway Trail, like there's some small hills, so I think I'll be prepared for that side.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: I think the biggest question for me is just like the temperature, which could be 50 or 80 degrees.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So ooh yeah, and Buffalo.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Buffalo is a cool city.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: My fiance lived there for a while.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Like I've always said good things about it, yeah, it is pretty neat.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: It's going to be nostalgic for me just because I haven't lived there in eight years, go there a few times during the year to see family.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think just the course is really cool in the city.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: It hits some really cool areas along the waterfront and some cool parks, so I think I'll be excited to be running there.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we talked a little bit about me as a runner in my background.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: We talked a little bit about run potential, at least like big picture things.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: But I wanted to jump back into kind of a little bit of like the running injury side of things.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, right, and I talked about that briefly, but let me ask you this question, okay, because then I'd be curious to answer.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: If you had to think of two different types of injuries in the human body not necessarily like wear, but just two types of like tissues in the body that get most injured and runners do you feel like you'd have an answer?
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: That maybe Just take your guess, Okay.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: So first one, I'm going to say I think stress fractures are huge in runners.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: And I think the second thing is I'm going to guess tendinopathies here.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, oh, really.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: So if you think about stress fractures, right, what tissue is that?
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: Bone, yes, so bone and tendon and why those tissues get injured or get stressed or become painful on people is just the nature of running.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: It's a very similar motion and it's repetitive and it's fatiguing.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: And so if we talk about the bone side of thing which I think is I've learned a lot about this over the years and there's been more and more science that have come out, come out, but there used to be the thought of bone stress fractures literally come on because of, like training error, where you're training just too much and you're not allowing enough recovery, and the bone fractures right.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: But really there's a lot more complexity to the story of that, where running form and or things like that may not even be related.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Even footwear Training definitely has a relationship to it, right?
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: If, like I said, if we're not ready and we're just gonna go do a 30 mile run, there could be some stress there.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: But the more valuable thing in the literature, at least recently, has been talking about fueling and how that is related to bone stress, injuries and ultimately stress fractures Like hormone too, like changes in your diet.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Like won't that swing your hormones a?
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: So have you heard of the?
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: It used to be known as, like the female athlete triad.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: So, basically because this was seen more in female athletes but then there became a female and male athlete triad, but there's three components and one of them is energy availability.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: So basically, how much energy or fatigue do you have Like hormonal menstrual function changes with that, and then also bone mineral density.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: And so those three components are really looked at in the literature and they're all interrelated.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And so if we go back to the fueling component, if you are under fueled as a runner, and specifically carbohydrate, it's been more of a shift away from calories, it's been more of a shift toward carbohydrate, because that's our main fuel, especially for anything at a even a moderate intensity to higher intensity, and so as runners we're hitting that often.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: And so if you are under fueled over time and we don't restore those glycogen reserves after running, that something starts to happen where the endocrine function in your body starts to shift and it needs energy from somewhere for you to continue to train, and so it starts taking that from like reproductive function, bone and other tissue in the body, because you need to stay moving right.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Your body's trying to survive at that point and so that's why we see in, like females and men, if they're overly fatigued and under, fueled in time, of course, that we'll see loss of like a menstrual cycle or irregular menstrual cycle in men, like a low libido, where you know those sex changes happen, and then that's where we start to see the bone stress injuries occur, Gotcha, when it's.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I'll see this a lot in people who begin training in like six weeks into a training plan because maybe they're under fueling and then also over training they start to get pain somewhere and then I have them come in, we get them checked out and there's concern for a bone stress injury and we end up getting some imaging and oftentimes they're there.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: But if we catch them early that can prevent a bigger issue and becoming a full blown stress fracture.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that's a problem, man, like under like, and I'm notorious for it, because, as a short distance athlete, you feel like, well, I'm fueled.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Before I can, I'll feel after.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Do I need to feel during?
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Well, sometimes.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: And then you see people like Killian who don't feel at all and does like fasted stuff and, yeah, it's actually all right.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna throw it back to you with a quick question.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: This is just out of my pure curiosity.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: So I eat meat, a lot of people eat meat.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not like I don't do like the carnivore diet or anything like that, but you see a lot of athletes that do this like ketosis related.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: You know they have these ketosis related diets or keto diets or whatever, and they're going we're carnivore.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: It's kind of the same thing, the metabolic system that your body is working with.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: But how does does that throw any contrary Like?
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Are these people similar people seeing these issues because they're having a lack there of carbohydrates, or is their body just breaking that protein down and converting that into and that's that way they're able to fuel?
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: That is a loaded question.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I can probably speak a little bit about that, but not being a registered dietitian.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah sorry, might be a little bit tougher.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I think just our body can break down other like basically our main two of fueling is carbohydrate.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: If we talk about macronutrients carbohydrate and fat at least for energy protein, it's going to be more of a obviously a building block for tissue.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: But if our body is in a state of really low carbs like, it can break down protein to convert that to glucose or sugar through something called gluconeogenesis.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Right, right and so like.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, we have these options.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: But you're just to be honest for most people, if you're at again, a moderate or higher intensity of exercise, you're battling against yourself.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: If you just don't have enough fuel between whether it's within a session or pre and post, where those are the most important windows to restore the fueling that you use but also to like perform well, right, because that's part of it.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: You can get away with doing a long run or something like that and not fuel, but you could also feel terrible.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Get a pizza and cheeseburgers and After yes, but I'm saying during the run.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: right, I think there's you could still eat pizza and cheeseburgers.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: You could, you could.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: But I think most people either aren't fueling as much as they should during the run or a race or whatever, and it's affecting their performance, and then also, in the longer term thing, they're risking the health of some of their tissue, especially bone, if they're underfueling over time.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Now, would you say, the majority of athletes are coming to you with problems.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing like a greater amount of stress, fractures or tendinopathies and things like that, versus just someone that's looking to do this as like a pre-emptive measure to go for strength and conditioning, or like what do you normally see more of?
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I see, I definitely see a fair amount of bone stress injuries and again it's on a spectrum.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: A stress fracture would be like the worst case scenario, where there's actually a fracture line in the bone but there's precursors to that which would be just we call edema or like swelling around part of the bone or bone marrow tissue, which we'll see via MRI.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: But often again, there's more to the story and again this is, if we talk about bone, still why I wanted to start my own practice.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Because I think there's an important piece of having more time to talk to the person and really get a deeper understanding of again what's going on in their life, what's again sleep, nutrition, hydration, what's their training, what's their stress, because all that feeds into it and it starts to tell a story, because someone could come in with shin pain and that could be 10 different things.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: It could be the bone, it could be the muscle tissue, it could be nerve, and so the story, the background on what they're telling me, helps me develop a hypothesis and then when I do my assessment and my loading test and running, it really gives me a gauge in how that tissue responds and understanding okay where we go from here, because shin pain that's bone versus something else is gonna be a totally different recovery pathway, right and so, yeah, that's again where the problem-solving hack comes into play.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: I like all of that consideration and thinking and helping people and really making smart decisions so they don't keep putting themselves in a hole.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, dude, I watched you do the assessment on me many times.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: I was fucking amazed.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: It was awesome.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: It was really interesting.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: And not that I really had any massive issues, but just how quickly you were able to disseminate like whatever.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I mean I had a few problems, but just how quickly you were able to get to the root of it was really interesting and pretty exciting.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: If I could speak on that.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: So I'm remembering now we did a couple things.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the times when you came in you were, I believe, complaining of an adductor.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I thought, like you, thought you strained it.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: So adductor muscle groups are the inner thigh muscle groups, and so you were having pain there and it was affecting you running and we did some testing and I was like, okay, there's no clear mechanism of injury for you.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Like you didn't like step off a rock and like split your legs apart, like that's where a muscle strain might happen when we're like over lengthening the tissue under load.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: You didn't have any of that.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, what else is going on here?
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: And again, the nervous system, like nerve tissue and like the low back and the pelvis, can cause a lot of funky symptoms.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: And so, looking at where that came from, there was an issue, I believe, with your pelvis and your low back that was contributing, yeah, and I also believe it was either that time or a different time you were having knee pain or that was the bursitis.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: The knee bursitis.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: We hit bursitis.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: It was knee, and it's like I think I said every now and then.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: It's like I have these existential crises where I feel like all athletes feel this way oh my God, I'm done.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I'm never running again.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: When I came to you and you're like, oh no.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: And the knee part.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I forgot what you were doing.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe you're doing some like local stuff around the knee, like stim stretching, like rolling all this stuff, which again that would be where you would start right.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: But I'm pretty sure when we looked at it you had a discrepancy in your rear foot mobility, where the rear foot is kind of like a if you think about a boat, it's kind of like your rudder, which it has to move, rotate and move in different planes to absorb load and have, uh, propulsion.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: And so yours was being was limited in like a pronation movement or a rear foot e version where the Calcaneus or heel bone kind of drops in.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: It wasn't moving well and so you were starting to feel load shift up to the knee and so we corrected that and you had pretty immediate Right With him like the same day.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Awesome, well, I'll never forget.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Like you put me on the treadmill and you look at me, funny, because what do I do?
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I put the treadmill on a 15.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like let's see what we can do here.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: And uh, and we start going and yeah, and I almost immediately felt better.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's funny because that same leg where I was having the quote, unquote, non-bersidious issue, like with that mobility issue with my foot, was also causing me to roll that same ankle and even to this day you could still hear I was playing around, that you could hear my tendon popping in that same angle.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, it's.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: You know if you, if you play this game long enough, you eventually destroy your body, I feel like.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: But you know, more or less to a point, yes, To a point, yeah, but um, yeah, I was just amazed on how like for me, it was more so, let's get fixed, let's, let's, let's figure out a way to prevent this from happening down the line.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: So, one interrupt training, and we were.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: It was super quick, we were able to, you know, get the root of it right away.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: And those are.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Those are my favorite.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, not the best for business, but but if I can make someone feel dramatically better within one session, like that's awesome.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Like you know, like you can't complain about that.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: But most tissues, when they're injured or stressed, like they take longer than that.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Like I said, when we're talking about bone tendons, like those can be weeks to months to potentially even a year plus recovery, depending on the degree of the tissue involvement and the pain and all of those things.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: And so it's always a nice win and it always feels really rewarding when you can get someone leaving your office feeling like a hundred bucks Pretty, pretty awesome.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: So, all right, I'll preface this with another stupid injury that I had.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: This one was a little more non-fixable, but I, um I had recently a vestibular uh, was it neuropathy?
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, vestibular, where the Neuritis Neuritis.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Well, it's where the, the nerve was damaged.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure the degree of it, because I know you went to like a specialist but we had a conversation on the phone.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: But basically you had a like a, some sort of virus, and I used to see this when I worked in the hospital where the nerve in the inner ear that goes to your hearing organ and your vestibular organ, which is like your equilibrium center yeah, Basically becomes inflamed after like a, like I said, a virus, and so when that happens, you can have ringing in the ear, dizziness, loss of equilibrium, and that can take days to weeks.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Dude, I'm still like months.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, I'm back, like I can, I can train now and I'm good.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: I guess you saw I've we talked about this a lot, but like and I put this out on Instagram Like holy shit, like this, this, like I had to retrain my body with these vision, like looking at this card with an E on it, like literally retrain my eyes, how to how to stable up, basically to make sure I have my balance, because I was falling all over the place and because of this crazy thing that affected the nerve that is in my vestibular system that you know, is in your brain that maintains balance.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, and I think even you knew, like you had an idea at least.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: So you're like oh, dude, it's probably this, and I'm like, oh, because I think you were at the time.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: You were telling me, like man, I just I'm just like hanging out inside, I'm not doing.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I'm like scared, like what's going on?
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, let's, let's take a look and test some things, like let's set up a FaceTime, see what's going on.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: But I was like you're going to be okay, but you, you got to start like recalibrating things.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's what you had been doing for weeks and months, especially as a trail runner on technical terrain like even more of a demand for your eyes, enter your, your body's proprioceptive ability, like you have to be on point, like that could be life or death.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, and some of the trails you're on.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: There was some, there was some falls, there was some ugly falls.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I mean you know how steep Lodger it is.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: It was died like three or four times.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: It was some, it's been a, it's been a journey this off season.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Let's put it that way.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Happy to have you back and I'm happy that didn't happen in the summer, when you have all these awesome races.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, the whole balance thing.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: What a weird, what a freak freak who put that in the inner year Like who created that?
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I don't get it.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: The aliens dude Right, so yeah.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: I, you know what.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting, interesting stuff.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: So all right.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: So we got through your races we talked about, talked about run potential.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want to go through?
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Like as far as like from you know, with your PT hat on Anything else you want to talk about?
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like I said, I just want to at least touch on the other injury.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, like the, the tendinopathy, because I see that a lot, I've dealt with it myself and it can be pretty stressful when you're you're Achilles tendon hurts or your patellar tendon hurts and you want to just run and it's like hollering at you and so something to just differentiate.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Right Tendons are really again going to store in that, release that energy.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: So when our tendons attach from muscle to bone and so the muscle is able to contract and shorten or lengthen and so is the tendon, but the tendon's not contractile.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So your muscle when you again when, say, if you're running downhill, right You're, when you take a step and you land and load, like your quad contracts and there might be a little bit of lengthening, but it's also going to pull to pull the tendon to get some stretch and that allows that like recoil stretch when you get like that swing phase component.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: So we're storing, releasing energy when we run and then we have that energy stored to help us propel, to move forward, and so for efficient runners we can utilize that.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: So what I often see with for a lot of especially recreational runners, where they don't?
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: They're on the ground really long, they use a lot more muscle and they're just almost working against their natural tissue of their body that these tendons could become really stiff and they become potentially stressed if their mechanics are all over the place.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: And so the tendon obviously we want to retrain to handle load because they need to be strong, especially again, achilles tendon, patellar tendon there is a handle, a lot of load from our body weight in the ground.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: But we also need to teach them to again store and release energy and most, again, people don't train that and so building a program where it's heavy loading in under slow conditions and fast loading really start to restore that tendon health.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: The other interesting piece about tendons is that it's okay to actually run with like a little bit of pain.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: At least a lot of the research has shown that some pain like a three to four out of 10, if we talk about like a pain scale is okay to run with as long as things stay there and don't get worse after.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: And that's where, like as myself and an athlete, when I'm talking about education with them, it's those expectations where, hey, if this starts to spike more, we just need to reduce the loading a little bit and over time we can get back to where it's pain free.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: But we're working within those demands.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: First is again with bone, just bringing that back.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: We don't want any pain and that's the difference there.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Like we talk about different tissues, tendon can tolerate some pain.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: When we run and move bone, like if there's any sense of pain and we know there's a tissue injury there, like we're pulling the plug or finding the right load, we can do at the time where it doesn't overstress it and we can build that in due time.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: As an uphill runner, I will frequently get have Achilles pain and I just know when to back off and when to let it rest for a day, when to not.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: But dude, I'm friends with some people that push it to the max and then end up completely injured and will completely miss their season because they pushed it too far.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you this then, just reflecting on that You've dealt with some Achilles tendon pain in the past Once a week.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Once a week, yes, or it'll flare up and I'll feel like a little not like slack in it, but just a little uncomfortableness in the left ankle or in the left Achilles, and it's like I said, I'll rest it for a day, I'll do something flat or I just will rest it, and usually the following day I'm good.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: And that's great.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: When that situation happens, where it's like you feel it, you take maybe a little time off, maybe like a day, a couple days, or you like, reduce your training load and things feel better, that's great.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: In snow.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: You know what you sorry, I didn't interrupt you In snow, for some reason, in snow is when I feel it Like usually worse that actually makes a lot of sense to me.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: So I did a.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I think I did a post on my Instagram maybe a couple months ago, talking about basically what's if you're having Achilles or calf pain, because they're a connected unit what to avoid, and one of them is steep uphills, right.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: One of them is soft, uneven terrain, so snow thinks sand, things like that, cause we don't get that tendon impact in the ground from our foot, that we get that spring.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: We're looking for stability, so that tends to stress tendons and that tissue even more.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: And I've had other people come in with calf strains because they went to run on the beach.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, my God, well, it makes sense to me.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: But I think people realize like, oh, it's soft, like I'm going to feel okay, but oftentimes it's problematic especially when they're not used to it.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: It's like a new stimulus.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: It's completely and that's the thing.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: And especially for us in winter, you know, I mean we get mild winters here, but when we get a lot of snow, I mean snow is, I call it strength training in disguise I feel like it's completely different.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: It's almost a different modality.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Like you can't go as far If the vertical was much harder, I think everything is much more difficult.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: And still, we're for sure, yeah, I think, yeah, that's something I definitely will not disagree.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Do you want to talk about inspiration?
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Right, we can talk about inspiration, so I'd love to hear from you too, but then I'll talk to you about also what inspired me, especially with, like the mountain ultra scene.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: There's an athlete that comes to mind that, especially early in my ultra trail running I'm not career, but like when I got into it there was a runner that really inspired me.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you tell me first you tell me, okay, who inspired you.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: Moving to Colorado, I think was part of it and then also being Colorado Springs, but someone who I really was inspired initially getting into it and I still am, but I think it's faded a little bit just because he's not here anymore.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: But Zach Miller We'll have to have him on the pod one day.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Part of it was because he was in the Springs and he's kind of like the local legend yeah Up on bar camp, like just there was.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: There was like a component of that and like that is so cool.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Like he lives halfway up the mountain, he just like runs all day and like crushes himself and he was just such a good competitor.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: But really made him an inspiration for me was that he was just like never like that classic athlete who was just so fast you think about like Jim Wamsley and Hayden Hawks, like all those guys who were like collegiate runners and like really fast on the road track, like he was.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: He was definitely good but he was not to that level and I think what he did in like the trail mountain scene was inspiring because he is just grit was just through the roof.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: He's got that dog in him Like crazy.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: And this leads to another question.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: I was probably going to ask you about competition We'll get to that later but like yeah, I mean and I think Zach would even admit this and it is fine with saying it Like yeah, he might not be at that world class caliber.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's world class old.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: He's one of the best older runners on the planet.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Right, so like from.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: he's not a sub four Miler, you know, he's like there's a lot of things that, like Zach can like, there's a lot of things that the high above average athlete can relate to.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: To Zach, to show that, like, if you have a ton of grit and if you work your ass off and you put your head down and you're a good person, you let the things come to you, let the training come to you, like there's no telling what you can accomplish.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: And I think Zach is living.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at us at UTMB.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: I mean like right, you know, and yes, it is, it is interesting and it is pretty cool and it is neat that, like he's a springs guy you know, like, for the most part, like you know yeah, I greatly admire what he's been able to accomplish.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, like I said, that's that's why I was inspired, because, like I said, I wasn't this amazing talented runner Like I again average to above average, but then putting in the work where that's where you start to see some results and success.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: And he was just like a staple of that, like the amount of training he put in, how hard he worked.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: You see him in these races, like when I was really into it, I think it was maybe that one of the the North Face 50 milers and that like viral video where he yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Where he, like, was like gassed and maybe a few miles left huffing and puffing and you're like man.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: People were saying he was like that.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: The whole race, like how is that possible?
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Hey, dude, he just has an ability to push himself.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Now that's in the ultra scene, right?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I hate to do this, but we're sub ultra podcast here, all right.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: What are you?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: What are you?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Who's your sub ultra guy?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Who who you have there's.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of course, um and again, there's always new people coming into it.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be silly for me to not say like Killian is one of my answers, but I'll give another answer just because he literally is everybody.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like come on.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Is that your goat?
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: like he is definitely my goat.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Just again, if we talk about the full sub ultra mountain like the up and the down, I think I think there's better people than him Now.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: I think he's probably a little bit out of his prime or nearing.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Then maybe he's like 35, 36.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: See, I look at it as low most like I used to look at it like a fighter, like, for instance, like no boxers or UFC fighters really are like that great after 35.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: And I used to think of like runners in the same mode, like almost in the same capacity, right, but like you see guys like Jeff Browning and then you see guys on on the like on the sub ultra scene like Max King.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: Max King's like 40 something years old.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: He's an animal Crazy.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: There's a few guys that are up there still yeah.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: And I shouldn't say that, like Kylian will still be very competitive as long as he wants to be, just because he's that type of athlete and truly loves the mountains, like that's why it's also inspiring, like he just loves, he'll be out in the mountains for 10, 20 hours and like look fine.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Well, I think one of the interesting things about him, too, is that is the range dude Like they're like to be able to, and I think the best example is his is his 2020, I think it was, yeah his 2022 season, where he comes in and beats Francois and in Dakota at hard rock, he has a great, pretty awesome series and all I can't remember if he wins a gamma in that year and then he wins UTMB you know, right and like the range and the depth of that is just, you know, it's something that you know because you got a lot of specialists right.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Like Remi is not going to go win UTMB, right, right, and he's just, he's just one of the best up hillars in the world.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: He is the best up hillar in the world, you know.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: You know who, like I mean I hate to say this because I'm incredibly biased, but like my so, like I said, I bring things back to fighting is the way I look at it but like do you know who Bo Nikola is?
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: So Bo Nikola is like the best UFC middleweight prospect in the world right now and he's like and not a lot of people know who he is, but like he's greatly on the scene and people, the people in the know know that like this guy is a world beater and the people, the person I look at in our sport, that is like the world beater, eli easy, you know, and then you just see what he did to the black heating.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: He's so good.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: right now I'm going to even preface this to make it a little bit like more so.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Like Dylan, not Dylan, I'm sorry.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Darren Thomas is like no slouch.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh, he's a beast, one of the and he's a color former Colorado Springs guys.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Well, like one of the best easily short distance runners in the United States.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: And to beat him in a 50 K about 20 minutes, like holy shit, like you're talking about the big Alta.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, the big Alta, they just took place last weekend.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that to me.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I think that I'm going to put that down as far as right now, the best not only the best 50 K performance of this year might have been the last 50 best 50 K performance of the last five years, just by beating.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, there wasn't like a crazy field there, but like Matt Daniels is no slouch, matt Daniels is an animal too.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, to have to put on a show like that and then like beat those guys by 20 something minutes I was just talking to another, another buddy of mine that's coached by them as well Like we were both like I'm like holy shit.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: So if and when Eli ever decides to go like the long ultra route, like the CCC, the UTMB, I, I think you're going to get one's only plus killing, plus level performances by the way, the distance, you know the sports going right.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: That's a hot take.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: But I would I would agree.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: I think he's also just so good at the I guess it depends what he wants to do.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: He's so good at the mountain running stuff now I think, and I think he even got that much better just really going through the whole golden trial series circuit.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Like I remember maybe it was a few years ago, I think he was at one of the GoPro races the Val mountain race, yeah and I didn't really know of him that.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: I think it was like before he was like really on the scene, but then he just started like winning a bunch of things low or in the U S, and my God, this guy is like good.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: He's beating a lot of these names that I'd heard about for a while and then, you know, getting into the golden trial series and just that, that level of international competition is stout, dude, yeah.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: So, it's like when you're top five in those races in the world.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Like you are, you're going to crush people in the U S.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, that's the thing, and like we've, I mean we'll see.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: I think American trail running is come a long way and it's on its way, especially short distance, like our sawbolter scene is is pretty stout.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: I mean we're getting there, yeah, but especially with, I mean with, like I said, eli just popped on the scene about two years ago, so and then you have, do you, do you have a Christian?
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Alan is, I don't, oh, my God, I can't remember like what he ran the marathon in at CIM, but total world dominator.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: So this year, the other Cirque series race I'm missing is snowbird, which is I think it's, the U S A T F championship for this year.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: I'll be doing a race preview on that, but he's, he'll be there.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: There's dudes are showing up.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm excited for the future of the U S, the U S contingent for short distance.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: So we're getting there.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: I think that'll be really exciting.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: I think just also like how you can visualize it now, like with all the streams now too.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like last year, even just watching the U S mountain running championships at Sunopee was pretty sweet.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: The game is changing for sure.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: Now, on that topic, like we've run together a bunch and like you know, like we've we've put each other in some holes before, Like you've got the dog in you, Like you're, I want to hear your theory on competition.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Like you know, as a competitor like, are you super competitive?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Are you?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: Are you not Like what's your?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: I could probably guess it, but you know.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: I think breaking that word competitor down into like an internal competition and also an external, and so for me, I'm always wanting to do my best or do better than I had before, especially if it's on a core, a certain course or what I think I can do based on my current level of fitness.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: So like I always want to beat myself and I think that's part of the reason why I'm pretty competitive.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: But also externally, yeah, I feel like if there's someone around me in a race, that's like pushing, like I want to beat them.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: Like I see people ahead of me or near me and like I don't either don't want them to pass me or I want to catch up to them, and so like that game, within the ultimate game of the race, I'm always playing, but that that keeps me going, that fires me up to really do my best in the race and and beat the people around me.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: When it comes to just like, oh, people at the starting line and like, oh, I want to beat them or them, that's harder to say, just because so many people's fitness are different at different times too, and you know, obviously you want to, but it's more about once, once the adrenaline gets going after the initial whatever mile or whatever it is that, that's when I'm starting to like really play that, that game against myself and the people, like I see around me.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: It's just a different style, I agree, I agree.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: No, I and dude I used to be.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is like full full.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: You know, I've come full circle.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: Like I used to be like one of those people that will like look at the ultra, sign up, like list, and like what's their background, who's, what's this, you know?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: And like I always hear like people say like oh, I never look at it.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: I'm like Holy shit, like how do you not look at your competition?
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: But like now, now I don't, like I really I've come away and, like you said, like just kind of like we're focusing on running your own race and focusing on, you know, showing up just the fittest.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: You could possibly be at the start line, right, ready to throw down, cause I think about like looking at your competition.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: It depends on who you are, but like sure, they could also express insecurity too, which I'm, you know, I definitely have.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: And I've all and speaking on that too like knowing your competition too.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: It's like you could.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I've started races out way too fast, oh dude.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: And like it destroys you.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: And so, knowing your competition, if you know there's someone in the race that's going to be this crazy high level or pro or semi pro, whatever right For me, it's like, yeah, I don't expect to stay with them, Like that would be silly for me to go out with them because then I'll blow up.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: Versus if I can literally be with myself and how I my training reflects how I'm feeling during the race, I'll have a better idea of really getting the best out of myself in that day.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: It's cool.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: So your goat?
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Your goat is killing.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: That's what you're going to end with.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: It's what you're going to stick with, so I would.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: that's.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: That's the cliche answer, that's right.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Go, but continue.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: But I like I said also speaking locally, like you got to, you got to say Joe Gray, Like what he's done, it's my boy, right?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: That's my, that's my goat.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: Colorado Springs guy.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: How long he's been at the top Like that is crazy.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: And he's like in his late thirties now.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Almost 40.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: So him being literally like 12, 13, whatever, how many years it's been now where he's like one or been at the top of the U S mountain running champs and he's done well internationally and you know the U S goat of pikes peak, you know post-matte carpenter, of course, and so yeah, like of course, that's an inspiration and when you get to see it, when you see him out in the trails every now and then and like man that is just such a good runner and how strong he is, so a good person.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: He's a good, he's a good dude.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: You know, like we've got like, like I said, we're talking about the community Like we've got just such a good community here and and local goats.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: You know, like Mark Mark Carpenter, you can get the guy serve an ice cream on custard, custard, I'm gonna have.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: He's corrected me, I've been there.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: He's like it's custard, it's not ice cream.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: You know, if you tip him, he'll tell you a joke.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: I have not, you've never.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Funny, funny story on Matt Carpenter, just the dovetail off this.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: So he lives in Manchu, of course, but I've seen him like out on the Intamin trail a lot and he's always like running just super slow and like I'll come, I'll be like up behind him or next to him.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: He's like go around me and like what he doesn't know who I am, but he's just like out enjoying himself.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: It's just funny to see that, yeah, he's literally going so slow but just like enjoying, like being out.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Dude, he's somewhere I would love to chat with.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Like just to see, like I'm so curious to like get in his brain Like what?
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: Because like he was everybody's different for their different time.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: Right, like Joe, throughout this time Joe has been extremely dominant.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: Right, you've got Killian has been dominant when he's done, but Carpenter was sort of like the original spot because I think he had like a deal with Fila, like when Fila was sponsoring, you know, on the mountain running scene, and like he had a ton, like Carpenter had a ton of range to me.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: I think he still has the Leadville 100 course record.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: He had the.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Pikes course record for an eternity.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: High altitude specialist to a point like then having like a super high VO2 max, yeah, but also 90.2 or something.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: I just looked it up the other day because I just I saw someone the other day I'm not going to say who who very publicly said they had a 93 VO2 max and I was like get the fuck out of here, there's no way.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: And I looked it up because I wanted to see, like if, like, what Mac Carpenter's was, because Mac Carpenter's was the highest ever recorded and it was like 90.2.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: So I don't know.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so off to the go.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: So who inspires you, dude, like, what's your?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Where do you get your inspiration from?
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: That again tough question.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: I feel like it doesn't have to be runner, it could be anybody.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to think about this a lot.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: It's and I almost like don't have a particular person.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: I I think it's like I said, bringing back to just this community we have here, like the different training groups, like the people around me bring me inspiration, because I could text or call different people every weekend and get out for a training, run and have people push me and or just have something easy and have the conversation.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: So I I get the most inspiration from the people around me and again, I I'm so blessed to as I've built my practice too in getting to know more people in the community as runners that like just my network of community is just through the roof and it's just like you're at a high.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: It's so fun when you get to be around these people and again, when you're around people pushing yourself to like what they say you know, dude, rising tides like lift all ships.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: Is that what it is?
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: No, I was going to say Suffering likes company, that's right and so doing again.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: I did a long run workout this morning with a few other guys I run with and it's just like it just makes it so much more enjoyable when you're tired but, like people around you, keep you going.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I agree.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: That's my inspiration.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: Answer.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I like the yeah.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: No, I like.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: And I was going to tell you, like you, thank you for inspiring me, because, like there had been a few runs, we had been out and I talked about like, oh, I'm going to start this podcast, I've got an idea of what I want to do, and you're like dude, you got to do it.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Like you have to do it, and I, you know, I putzed around and it took me forever and then I finally got this, got my shit together, and here we are now.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Six studio.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with my sauna.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, I love it.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: Thanks, man.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: So we talked about who inspired you and, as we wind down, I asked dumb questions.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: So here we go.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: I'm questioning the best questions, james.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: So what's your, what's your take on Bigfoot, bro?
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: Whoa, yeah, I took that one from.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: I didn't see that coming.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: I was prepared for, maybe, aliens?
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're getting to the aliens, but I'm curious on the Bigfoot.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to say it, I'm a believer.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: Really, I don't know.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: There's, there's, okay, there's a bunch of TV shows and documentaries and all that stuff and they never find them.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: They never do.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: But but it's the people, some of them, I believe.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know Okay.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, I feel like in so many similar stories of, like, how are the people describe it or the smell, whatever it's, yeah, it's clearly something that I'm a believer.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: dude, Like I'm going to fly outside.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: I'm a believer too, but I'm a skeptic as well.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: You have to be yeah.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: Cause I think there's a lot of people that are out there like ah, you know, like and it's interesting because in the area we live in there's a lot of like, lure, like if you drive around, like the greater pikes, peak region, like there.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's even a gift shop in Manitou that's like themed towards Bigfoot, like it's like a big thing here.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: People want to believe, people I want to believe that's the lure of the mystery but like with all the camera phones now, like how, how, we not, but the woods.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: I mean I will preface one thing Like if you're out there you're running in the backwards, right, if you're, you could be in, you could even be in Cheyenne Canyon where, like, everybody runs right, or Manitou.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you get a little further back you don't hear anything, you don't have roads, you don't have a car, there's a lot of remote, it is so quiet and like it does it makes you wonder.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: Like I'm so alone here, you know, like, and this is such a big, vast area, I, it's possible, you know yeah, and also just story off of that.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: So my cousin used to live down near Cheyenne Canyon in Colorado Springs and he worked with a guy or something that worked at.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: You know the what's the, the Broadmoor property in the mountain, like in Cheyenne Canyon, there's like a restaurant.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's like sky, isn't it Like sky view?
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: or something like that.
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: It's where?
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: Where they have the live cam?
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: No, ok, so seven falls OK.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: So, it's like the gated area, that road that goes through like that canyon, on just the south end of, like the regular Cheyenne Canyon road.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: And so the guy who worked in there like you're back there all the time, like you're driving it out, it's dark, it's light, whatever, I guess he told my cousin he had seen Bigfoot in that region.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, again he's a skeptic, but it's like crazy shit.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: He, my cousin said he was like was he like a seem pretty convinced, but it's like Black Bear, right, like could be, yeah, but you can trick, trick yourself, it's true, but you want to believe it.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to throw another one at you, other than Bigfoot.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: What's your take on grizzly bears still being left in Colorado, if we have any still here?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: I bring this, I would brought this up to you before.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: On Iran, probably have.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: I would say, if there is any left, that they're going to be on the way north end, because they are in Wyoming and Montana.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: So that would make the most sense to me that they would be like northbound border of the state.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: But they could be right.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: They I mean they're animals, they can migrate.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of like my Bigfoot in a lot of ways now, like there's a really good book out there.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's called the Last Colorado Grizzly.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: It was like published in the 90s and it talks about the Ed Weisman Bear.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: There's some guys, so some guy killed one.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: I think it was like Was it in the 70s?
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I think it was in the 70s.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: They killed the last one, the Ed Weisman Bear, which is like down near Um, what is it near the South San Juan wilderness, so in the San Juan's, and then like every now and then, like they'll find some tracks, they'll find some some sketchy stuff, you know, and the San Juan's is like unlike any other place in the state, like it is so different.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: So rich to with like plant life.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: It's so they get so much moisture there that I could see like with the plants, with with fish, with the lakes, like all that, like, maybe yeah.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: Right Could be.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: You never know.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: I think I mean like there's a lot of credibility that lends to that.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: You know they could still be hanging around in the San Juan's to be kind of cool, but there's so many hunters to set and if an elk hunter you think they'd see?
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: yeah, maybe I don't know.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was like a famous dude was on Rogan's podcast a long time ago and he said he said like I think his name was Adam Green tree and he put it on Instagram and it was just a long scale shot of a bore, of a cinnamon phased bear that you couldn't tell if it had like a hump on its shoulder and obviously you'd have to look at the call.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things you'd have to look at the head to be able to tell.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, dude, like it makes me like as a Colorado and as a as a mountain runner in Colorado, it makes it feel a little more wild, you know, when you think of like oh shit, that thing's in the woods.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: You know, terrifying.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: That's also why I'm happy, like for all, like the trail runners who live up North Wyoming and Montana, like that and even like Alaska, like that's legitimately scary, like my, my friend who lives up in Alaska.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: When he had to run up there he would run with Bear Bells, bear Sprint, like oh yeah, and that's still not.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: You're not running with earphones in.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: No, heck, no.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: Have you ever, like I've spooked, spooked See, I run with earphones in all the time.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Probably shouldn't, and like noise canceling You're not the best idea, good idea and, dude, I ran out.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: I almost ran into the bear.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: Like there was a bear like literally on on this ridge in Palmer Lake, ran right up on him.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: He was probably three feet for me.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: He looked at me, I looked at him, he turned around and took off.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, not a good idea.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: They're startling, they're.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: Bears are amazing animals.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: They're really cool to see.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I've seen a few out on runs, but I see more bears nowadays, just like neighborhoods, like being close to the mountains, like they're just again looking for food and garbage.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, they don't want, I feel like, unless there's cubs, they don't want to deal with you.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: So, no, no, I agree.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: All right, so last question.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: You probably predict this ALC.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: I did predict it.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: So aliens are a much more believable thing.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, and I definitely again believe in those, just because, like the universe is huge.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: Did you take physics?
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: And undergrad yes, Okay, but like I don't know that, not to the scope of anything of like quantum physics or anything like that as a geology major, we took physics one and physics two, with calculus I took physics one and physics two as a physical therapy and that was like, okay, why do I need to know all this stuff?
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: But the funny part is like it got me on the, even though in physics nor physics one, nor physics two you don't touch on dimensions.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: So I don't know.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: No, no, I got off of that.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: But that's what I was thinking.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: It had me on the interdimensional thought.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: You know, like these guys are coming from another dimension.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: I, I, of course I believe in it.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: And if you think about the big bang right, which is like the thing, it's 13 and change billion years, but like our planet is, I mean, I don't think it's just over a billion.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, am I a way off a billion?
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: So it's like if you think about our geologist and I don't leave it now in solar system being, if there's like a 10 plus billion year difference, like there has to be a ton of planets or stars out there that ever just so much further ahead of us.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: So it just makes sense that whatever type of technology they have, they, they could absolutely be here or been here or been around the solar system.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: So absolutely, that's a no brainer.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, all right.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, like the more people I talk to, like hearing more and more comfortable people are with, like the fact that like there's a strong possibility where we're not alone, it's.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of exciting.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: It could be If, unless you're a what, what's the word?
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Captured, you know seriously unless they take you.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like the commutations and all that stuff, it's like what?
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: What is going on?
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: Dude, there's some sketchy shit on that, Like you ever see, like I don't know you've ever gone down some of this history channel.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: Like where you find these yeah find these cows Like.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: They're not even taking the rib eyes, dude, they're just taking the whole, you know, just taking all the blood out and just leaving, that's the crazy part organs.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: Poor animals Like great, but how do?
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: like how do they do that Right?
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: Like what, who, what?
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: Laser, laser exactly.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: What human technology can do that.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: That's why it's like crazy.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: Like when you see the blood taken out with like nothing else like involved, like how can you do that crazy?
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know dude.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Dude, thanks for being on the pod.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me Super excited.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, this was a good one.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think I told you Sean was a badass and a really good dude so excited.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you guys got a chance to listen to what Sean had to say.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: He's going to be a staple and a mainstay on this podcast.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: This will be coming back on to talk a heck of a lot more about his expertise and PT.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: Just some quick things before we go.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: Wanted to have an opportunity to kind of plug Sean's social media outlet.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: You guys can find him on Instagram at Dr Sean Rimmer PT, d, p, t, ocs, and that's going to be a run potential PT on Instagram, and you can also find him on his website.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: If you guys are local to the front range or anywhere in Colorado or if you are looking for the best PT you can find, go ahead and look them up at runpotentialptcom.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: That's going to be his website online.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: Go ahead and reach out to him.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he would love to hear from you guys on how much you like this episode and if you're interested in the services.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys have an awesome week of training.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: Keep an eye out for the next one.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: Until then, you.