Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Devil's Advocate: Use In Case You Are Getting Laid Too Much

Transcript

Devil's Advocate: Use In Case You Are Getting Laid Too Much · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to the dr.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show, today. We are going to be talking about
• 0:11
  Playing devil's advocate and why men do this and why women hate
• 0:16
  it. And why the only kind of man who
• 0:18
  should be using Devil's, Advocate, as a man who is just
• 0:20
  getting laid too much and he just needs a break from being
• 0:24
  attractive to women because Devil's, Advocate can really get
• 0:27
  you that break that you need. But actually no men actually
• 0:31
  want that break. So never do this and I will
• 0:34
  teach you how to engage. Instead.
• 0:37
  So before we talk about that, please do subscribe, obviously
• 0:43
  subscribing is helpful to me and also helpful to you because it
• 0:48
  allows you to hear all of my different episodes that
• 0:51
  otherwise you really wouldn't hear because you are too cheap.
• 0:55
  Nah, I'm kidding. No, but I mean you should you
• 0:58
  should be paying to hear up because they are quality.
• 1:01
  So that's oral sex on women. And I don't need to even say the
• 1:07
  other ones, but there's like 40 of them, but and every just
• 1:11
  cares about oral sex on women. Also, attachment Theory, and
• 1:14
  like a million others, 40 others.
• 1:17
  Anyhow, um, moving forward. So a lot of menus this Devil's,
• 1:21
  Advocate style, when they're communicating with their wives
• 1:24
  and it goes something like this, the wife will come in and be
• 1:27
  like, Oh, works up today. My boss is such an asshole and,
• 1:34
  you know, He just said, he only gave me like a day to do this
• 1:38
  presentation. He's such a jerk and then her
• 1:42
  husband who is like otherwise does not seem to be brain
• 1:45
  damage. But in this case may to the
• 1:48
  Casual Observer appear to be so because he starts in the worst
• 1:52
  possible stupid as possible response, which is well, I don't
• 1:56
  know, you know, I mean II, he did tell you like two weeks ago
• 2:00
  right that this was going to be coming up.
• 2:02
  So, I mean, I don't know. I feel like maybe he did give
• 2:04
  you Some notice. And then she's like, no, like he
• 2:09
  did it. He said that maybe there will be
• 2:11
  a presentation coming up, but I certainly didn't know there was
• 2:13
  coming up soon and you know that she tries to get back on track.
• 2:16
  So he's such an asshole and I don't know, I really don't know
• 2:19
  if this career is the right one for me and then Here Comes, you
• 2:23
  know, helpful again with. Well, you know, every so often,
• 2:27
  you know, it seems like you you regret your career choice, but,
• 2:31
  you know, just seems to have to do with your mood.
• 2:32
  A really doesn't seem to have to do with anything else.
• 2:34
  So if I just play Devil's, The kid I mean, I might suggest that
• 2:38
  in any career that you were in, you know, there would be ups and
• 2:41
  downs and you'd be experiencing similar levels of boredom and
• 2:44
  frustration by this time, like this guy is not going to be
• 2:47
  getting late and weeks, you know, we could just start the
• 2:49
  count right now because she is so irritated, got instead of
• 2:54
  being supportive and just nice. He's just being what she
• 2:58
  probably thinks of as just an asshole or maybe she thinks it's
• 3:02
  specifically Playing devil's advocate.
• 3:03
  So, either way, why did guys do this?
• 3:05
  Well, Some guys do it because they're really smart and they
• 3:09
  like being smart and smart is a skill that helps them at work.
• 3:12
  And so they think that they are being really smart problem,
• 3:17
  solvers and adding value, and the low guys love to add value.
• 3:21
  And what they don't realize is, she didn't ask any questions.
• 3:24
  There's like no questions in this.
• 3:26
  Sometimes a guy. Will Playing devil's advocate
• 3:29
  say haha. But if there is a question, you
• 3:32
  know, then this would be appropriate know it's never
• 3:34
  appropriate. So if she's Oh my God, what do
• 3:37
  you think of my boss? Isn't he such an asshole?
• 3:40
  It's not a question. That's like, no question.
• 3:43
  Who cares? Are you going to be having sex
• 3:45
  with the boss later? Certainly not.
• 3:47
  So you don't need to be on the boss inside, you know, by being
• 3:51
  on the bosses side. You just showed that you're not
• 3:54
  on your wife's side and thereby condemn yourself to a sexless
• 3:58
  evening and or month, you know, depending on what her latent,
• 4:03
  libido level is so-so. What we're saying here is, you
• 4:07
  are never supposed to take the other person's side against your
• 4:12
  wife. Unless there is like some sort
• 4:15
  of massive reason to do so, like, you know, your your wife
• 4:19
  is it's your wife and she's holding out a gun and she's
• 4:23
  going to shoot your mother. Then you can get your mother out
• 4:27
  of Harm's Way, then you could take someone else's side, but
• 4:29
  really, you're not supposed to take anybody else's side.
• 4:32
  And that's what this is taken as every time you play Devil's.
• 4:36
  Get in this way. It's taken as that.
• 4:39
  You're not on your wife side because you're not, you know, so
• 4:43
  it's like it's like you wouldn't do it to probably just a random
• 4:50
  work friend, especially a female probably at work, you would know
• 4:53
  to be nice. You would know, would be like,
• 4:55
  yeah, he's such an asshole and then just leave it there.
• 4:59
  Or if you don't want to be remembered as saying, the boss
• 5:02
  is an asshole. You feel like, wow, that sucks
• 5:05
  sucks, that you have to do. Your Station and just one day,
• 5:07
  that's going to be rough. I'm sorry, right.
• 5:10
  So you could empathize. So what does empathize mean the
• 5:14
  opposite of Devil's Advocate? Its first of all, it's the
• 5:16
  opposite in so many ways. So Devil's Advocate is very
• 5:19
  cognitive. So as I said, one reason guys do
• 5:22
  this is they like to be smart and add value and the end
• 5:25
  extending that they are more comfortable in the realm of
• 5:28
  cognition than emotion. So their intellectual Wiser's
• 5:32
  versus emotion feelers. So this comes for In that, the
• 5:37
  wife is feeling an emotion. She's feeling.
• 5:38
  Frustration, stress overwhelm possibly anger Sadness.
• 5:44
  The man is feeling none of those.
• 5:45
  He just comes in, like, his clever asshole that saying,
• 5:49
  well, I don't know. Why don't you think about it
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  like this and literally like eight, like, she just like
• 5:55
  becomes the opposite of turned on.
• 5:57
  She becomes Beyond turned off. She's like, why is literally my
• 6:01
  husband on the side of my boss. This doesn't make any sense and
• 6:04
  it's the same thing if she's complaining about.
• 6:06
  About anything because these are the situations where guys come
• 6:10
  in and play Devil's Advocate is when the wife is unhappy.
• 6:13
  The other reason that they do at an addition to adding value in
• 6:16
  this kind of being clever way, is that they are bad
• 6:19
  communicators. They were not close with women
• 6:21
  growing up, their mother weren't very close to their mother or
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  and or their mother was not a big verbal Communicator.
• 6:27
  Because it's guys know how not to do this.
• 6:29
  If they grew up close to their mother, they don't do it as
• 6:31
  much. But guys, who grew up in a very
• 6:33
  male-dominated house and And or had a mother that was not very
• 6:40
  into expressing emotions. They have no fucking idea what
• 6:43
  to do. So they're Flying Blind.
• 6:44
  So they genuinely think this might cheer her up.
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  They genuinely think that her problem is thinking that her
• 6:50
  boss is an asshole and if they just convince her, he's not an
• 6:53
  asshole. Sometimes she going to feel
• 6:54
  better. No, she's not.
• 6:56
  She's gonna feel worse because you've been spending your time,
• 7:00
  trying to convince her of a different fact instead of saying
• 7:04
  oh sweetheart. That sucks.
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  I'm sorry. Three, which is what you need to
• 7:07
  do. So I've spoken about this before
• 7:10
  in and I've written a blog post that you should listen to the
• 7:12
  emotion. Not the content, when your wife
• 7:14
  speaks. And this is this, this is an
• 7:18
  exact example of when you got it, do that.
• 7:20
  So she's coming in and she saying, I am upset now, if
• 7:25
  you're like, no, she didn't say those words.
• 7:27
  You said, my boss is an asshole. I don't care.
• 7:29
  Turn off the volume of this movie and see, what does the
• 7:33
  character your wife look like. Does she look happy or That she
• 7:36
  looks sad. She looks mad.
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  She looks like she's feeling bad.
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  Dr. Seuss there. So, if she's feeling those
• 7:43
  things, why are you coming in, in a different kind of emotion?
• 7:47
  It doesn't help. It's never going to make her
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  like, calm down to see that you don't give a shit because that's
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  how it comes off. Is that you don't give a shit
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  and you're just in this realm of the cognitive just shooting the
• 7:59
  shit about like why her boss isn't really an asshole know
• 8:02
  when your wife is upset, you comfort her.
• 8:05
  So that's empathy. He and that is sympathy and all
• 8:09
  the facilities, you know, just come in and be kind and nice and
• 8:14
  loving say, oh sweetheart. That sucks.
• 8:17
  I'm sorry. So that's really all that.
• 8:19
  She wants you to do. So if I, if she was in my office
• 8:24
  or listening to this podcast, I would say if your husband tends
• 8:27
  to be this super, rational only fact oriented guy, then help him
• 8:34
  out. Come in and say, I'm really sad
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  and I feel really irritated. And I'm not going to get to hang
• 8:42
  out with the kids tonight. Instead.
• 8:44
  I have to do this presentation that I feel was sprung on me.
• 8:49
  And what I need from you is loving support and hugs and
• 8:53
  kisses. Now, if she could remember to do
• 8:55
  that, then awesome, then she's like an ace communicator.
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  But most people yourself included.
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  If you're honest, if you're a man, you can't remember to say
• 9:02
  whatever stupid shit that is, you know, like that's not real.
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  That's That's not like what, you know this look, what a couple's
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  counselor tells you to say that you can never remember.
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  Say so in reality people need to get somewhere in between.
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  So it would be great if she could come in and say, I need a
• 9:20
  hug, I'm feeling so bad, but honestly, sometimes when she
• 9:24
  says that, the guy gives her a hug and then he tries to tell
• 9:26
  who the boss is an asshole. Anyway, so I'm seeing here is a
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  very, very clear rule that you don't have to remember different
• 9:35
  couples, counselor, friendly ways.
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  Responding literally, it's never play Devil's Advocate.
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  Never argue the other side, never because it's never going
• 9:44
  to be what you want. It that is in problem solving.
• 9:47
  Now, if your wife comes to you and she says, can you help me
• 9:51
  figure out how to be in a different career and how to and
• 9:55
  what other career I should be in, then help, you know, and
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  maybe that could even be the time to say, you know, I think
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  you'd be good at all these things.
• 10:04
  I do sometimes wonder if, you know, No, you get frustrated.
• 10:07
  We have if people get would get frustrated with anything.
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  Maybe you could say it. If she's literally in a mode
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  where she's asking you to brainstorm, then she's going to
• 10:17
  be more responsive to this cognitive side of communication.
• 10:21
  But if she is coming in and if you turned off the volume and
• 10:24
  just looked at the video of your wife, which I entreat you to do
• 10:27
  a lot. Many men are thinking, would
• 10:29
  that I could turn off the volume but no, I mean, in your mind
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  turn off the volume and say, what would it be if this?
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  The movie with subtitles, and I couldn't see the subtitles.
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  What would I think about this woman right.
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  Now? What is she feeling?
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  What does she want? If you can get to, where you can
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  see that, you could see that you want Comfort, comfort means that
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  you come forward and you say, oh, sweetheart.
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  That's or honey, or just her name, or whatever you say to
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  her. That's terrible.
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  I'm sorry. That's really hard.
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  Sometimes you could say, I'll be here for you if you need any
• 11:02
  help because like in the situation I'm saying.
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  As I my hypothetical, I'm saying the woman is anxious because, or
• 11:10
  sad, because she's not going to get to spend time with her kids
• 11:13
  tonight with. And, and instead, she feels that
• 11:16
  she has to do this presentation, which is going to take away her
• 11:19
  time. So in that case, a man could say
• 11:21
  something like, I got dinner covered, and you could just hang
• 11:25
  out with the kids after do your presentation because you won't
• 11:28
  have to cook dinner. Well, that would be a nice thing
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  to say. That's also, by the way, problem
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  solving, but it's doing it in a way, where you're not arguing
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  with her. Like that's the last thing that
• 11:38
  a woman wants and probably like if you think about it, it's
• 11:41
  probably the last thing you would want to look if you came
• 11:44
  in and you were like God damn car.
• 11:46
  Doesn't work some bullshit. You know, I took it last time.
• 11:49
  The guy told me that this was fixed and it's not fucking pigs.
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  Now. I'm going to have to instead of
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  going to work. The first thing in the morning,
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  we have to take the car in. This is so annoying, you know,
• 12:00
  would you really want her to say?
• 12:02
  Well, perhaps the mechanic did fix the issue, hon, but There
• 12:06
  was something else gone wrong. And you know, that's just the
• 12:10
  way things go in the world of car repair and you be like, oh
• 12:14
  shut up, you know, because it's really not useful and doesn't
• 12:18
  make you feel close and it doesn't make you feel comforted.
• 12:20
  And in fact, another reason why people play Devil's Advocate,
• 12:25
  particularly men is their being passive aggressive.
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  Like they literally they're sick of her complaining and so they
• 12:32
  want to say, oh, you know what? Maybe there's some other ways to
• 12:35
  think about it, that are Always, so, wow.
• 12:38
  Mournful and upset all the damn time.
• 12:41
  I mean, for real, I mean, this is how, you know, I work with a
• 12:44
  lot of couples, people have a lot of resentment and if this is
• 12:48
  you, and if you do a deep dive and you're like, yeah, I do play
• 12:51
  Devil's Advocate, because I'm so sick of everything being a
• 12:53
  goddamn problem. Well, then many things a, you
• 12:57
  probably have to work on your empathy be if your wife really
• 13:00
  is negative all the time. She's probably struggling with
• 13:02
  some kind of depression, which means if you're responding
• 13:05
  badly, it's not going to help. If anything, it's only going to
• 13:07
  make things worse for her and for your children, you know, cuz
• 13:11
  she needs support. And also perhaps y'all should be
• 13:14
  in counseling, right? Because if she is really truly
• 13:18
  negative all the time about everything, a couple's counselor
• 13:21
  will pick up on that and we'll refer her to individual therapy
• 13:24
  to supplement and or will address it within the joint
• 13:27
  sessions. But you being a dick is never
• 13:30
  going to change her from a negative person to a positive
• 13:32
  person. It's only going to make it worse
• 13:34
  because now she is a negative. Does not feel supported in her
• 13:37
  marriage. So these are the general reasons
• 13:41
  that people play Devil's, Advocate women, Kate it, women,
• 13:45
  absolutely hate it. And this is why women say, you
• 13:47
  know, this stupid thing that I don't think women should say
• 13:50
  because it's never really true which is I just want you to
• 13:54
  listen, then every man who's ever had, like, talked to a
• 13:57
  woman or even like seen one on the street is like, that's some
• 14:00
  bullshit because I try I try to just listen and if I just
• 14:04
  listened then you're like, what do you think?
• 14:06
  Like do you think or you see, you know, the woman tries to get
• 14:09
  some kind of response because that's fake.
• 14:12
  Like that's something that women have seen.
• 14:13
  I don't know in the popular media that men should just
• 14:16
  listen, this isn't real. That isn't what other women do.
• 14:19
  That's not what her friends or her mom or whoever.
• 14:21
  She likes to talk to does. Those people actually help and
• 14:24
  problem solve to but also they empathize their voice sounds
• 14:28
  like it has some emotion in it. That is relevant to the issue at
• 14:32
  hand. The people that your wife likes
• 14:35
  to talk to you. You may say, I'm not a woman.
• 14:38
  Well, you know, you can also be an empathic, man.
• 14:41
  There's also maybe some men, I hope not because you're good,
• 14:44
  potentially be, some men that are more empathic, that you
• 14:47
  would like to talk to more because they aren't being a
• 14:50
  jerk. So, anybody male or female, who
• 14:54
  connect with people easily, including the aforementioned men
• 14:57
  that have had close relationships with their mothers
• 15:00
  and or older sisters growing up. Those are historically, the men
• 15:05
  who are good with women. And as I said the Bears out in
• 15:08
  my practice as well, those kind of men.
• 15:10
  Also answer with empathy. So it isn't really as much of a
• 15:13
  gender issue is certainly as a gender issue, but there are also
• 15:17
  men that are very masculine and successful with women that are
• 15:21
  empathic and loving and comforting.
• 15:23
  So it's not like the only way that men respond is this that
• 15:26
  isn't real and sometimes women don't know what they want in
• 15:32
  terms of communication, what they're saying is, I just want
• 15:35
  you to listen. But then, of course if the man
• 15:37
  literally just listen, she doesn't want that.
• 15:40
  Then she might as well be talking to a stuffed animal,
• 15:41
  right? So then she's gonna be like,
• 15:43
  what do you think? And then the guys like, well
• 15:45
  what I think is really maybe your boss, you know, did give
• 15:48
  you some some more lead time on this and then things go to shit.
• 15:53
  So what the woman really wants is not just a supportive
• 15:56
  listener, but she want somebody who's going to come in and help
• 16:00
  and give comfort. And the best way for you to give
• 16:03
  Comfort is by showing some emotion in your voice.
• 16:06
  Voice that indicates that you care about her not to be some
• 16:09
  stoic Rock because it doesn't seem like you care about her.
• 16:13
  Obviously. It's like if your kid comes home
• 16:15
  and was like I didn't get into the school play.
• 16:18
  You're like, oh, I'm sorry. That sucks.
• 16:20
  You know, I'm sorry that happened.
• 16:22
  You're not gonna be like, oh, well, you know what you weren't
• 16:25
  of really, very good actor anyway, and you probably
• 16:27
  wouldn't have stuck with the place on you.
• 16:28
  Do. I mean, you don't say that.
• 16:30
  So, don't say that to the wife either.
• 16:33
  It doesn't make any sense. Nobody wants to be Two out of
• 16:36
  their feelings, and that's how it comes off.
• 16:39
  So, if you're saying, how can I problem-solve, that won't make
• 16:42
  my wife. Be like, oh, you try to do solve
• 16:44
  things in the way that I said before.
• 16:47
  Oh, I'm so sorry. Sweetheart.
• 16:48
  That sucks. I'm gonna come in and, you know,
• 16:52
  make dinner or do bath time or whatever.
• 16:54
  So that you have some extra time and this goes back by the way,
• 16:57
  to my podcast on helping your partner, protect themselves from
• 17:01
  their worst self. So in that case, we were talking
• 17:04
  about, like, would you leave chips in the house?
• 17:06
  As if your partner constantly eats chips.
• 17:08
  No. Also, like in this case.
• 17:11
  Are you going to let your wife like get herself like all, you
• 17:15
  know, messed up in her head because she's trying to scramble
• 17:19
  doing the dinner and doing the bath time and then doing her
• 17:21
  presentation until 1 a.m. No, that wouldn't be good for
• 17:25
  her. Well, would be good for her is
• 17:26
  if you took some stuff off her plate in that way.
• 17:29
  So, that's the kind of problem. Solving, anyone could get
• 17:31
  behind, and I'm sure you would like that.
• 17:33
  Kind of problem, solving yourself.
• 17:35
  So if you came, And you were like, shit, you know, I got to
• 17:38
  take the car in the morning because the shit went down and
• 17:41
  your wife said to you. Hey, I have an idea.
• 17:45
  I could take the car in because I could just switch my meeting
• 17:49
  from this time to this time. Yeah, you would love that.
• 17:52
  Who wouldn't love that. You may not even let her do it
• 17:54
  because you could be like, well, whatever, you know, I could do
• 17:56
  it, you know, don't mess up your schedule to but you would like
• 18:00
  the offer. So women obviously would like a
• 18:02
  problem-solving offer at the actual problem that they have.
• 18:06
  Have the problem that she had is, she's upset and overwhelmed.
• 18:10
  She did not say I have a problem with how I'm thinking about my
• 18:13
  boss. And I'd really like some more
• 18:15
  input on different ways that I could perceive my boss.
• 18:18
  No, that's not her problem. Her problem.
• 18:20
  She feels overwhelmed and stressed.
• 18:22
  So just like, in that example, the car your problem isn't that
• 18:26
  you need a wider perspective, on the vicissitudes of car
• 18:29
  maintenance. Like that isn't your problem.
• 18:32
  Your problem is that you're mad and overwhelmed and now your
• 18:34
  schedule for tomorrow sucks. So anyway, I hope that this
• 18:39
  podcast is something that you can listen to with a partner and
• 18:42
  discuss particularly of Playing devil's.
• 18:45
  Advocate has been an issue in your relationship.
• 18:48
  And or your wife thinks you communicate like a jerk because
• 18:50
  she probably means this and you might as well, ask her might as
• 18:53
  well. Ask her to listen to the podcast
• 18:55
  to be like is this what I do? When you say that I quote
• 18:58
  problem-solve. Is it in reality that I'm
• 19:00
  playing Devil's Advocate trying to argue you out of your
• 19:03
  emotions, and in fact, not problem solving.
• 19:06
  And in any way that actually solves your actual problem and
• 19:09
  probably she will say yes, that is correct.
• 19:12
  Or maybe she will say no, but either way, you're going to be
• 19:15
  having a conversation and that is progress for the majority of
• 19:19
  couples to be able to have a different sort of conversation,
• 19:22
  a wider perspective, on their communication issues.
• 19:25
  That isn't just the same shit back and forth.
• 19:27
  Oh, you don't listen to me. Yes.
• 19:28
  I do know you don't. Yes.
• 19:30
  I do. You could do that until you die
• 19:32
  or else, you could try to have a different sort of perspective
• 19:35
  that could open the Precision up with a wider lens, in couples
• 19:39
  counseling can do that. And also any other sort of
• 19:42
  format can help put you on that path, you know, this is
• 19:46
  obviously the sort of thing that we do in couples work is look at
• 19:49
  the dynamic of what's going on in the conversations and see
• 19:52
  what is going. So terribly awry, and how to how
• 19:57
  to get it back on track. So another thing is, you really
• 20:01
  should listen to my attachment Theory podcast and my mr.
• 20:04
  Perfect. And his crazy wife podcast.
• 20:06
  Is because mr. Perfect, and men, with avoidant,
• 20:08
  attachment frequently play Devil's Advocate because they
• 20:11
  are just in the realm of a cognitive.
• 20:14
  And when they're partnered with more emotional women, that this
• 20:18
  is the the dynamite that, you know, explodes here when you
• 20:23
  have a very cognitively oriented man, who denies having any
• 20:26
  vulnerable, emotions, confronted with a woman's vulnerable
• 20:29
  emotion. That is usually a very dangerous
• 20:32
  scenario for the couple's communication.
• 20:36
  For their evening, and as I said, they're week or month, or
• 20:39
  what have you there after? All right.
• 20:41
  Hope you guys like this and please do subscribe.
• 20:43
  And I'll talk to you all soon.