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Dating Intentionally · Gay Men Going Deeper

0:00
Speaker A: Today's episode is sponsored by the Silva ultramind system, which is a highly optimized framework for awakening your mind's fullest potential by giving you a reliable access to altered states of mind. That's based on the Silva Method, a pioneering mind empowerment methodology founded in 1960. Basically, it's a long way of saying it's a meditation style that I started using recently and it has changed my life. It's more of an active type of meditation. So it's not any of that, like, clear your mind stuff. Get super quiet. It's more of an act of, like, doing something with your mind. You're actively thinking. And I can say I've seen measurable difference in my life since implementing it. They also have a super easy to use app, so you can use it on any smart device that you want. So if you're interested, you can head on over to our show notes and look at the Silva ultramind system link that we have there. Now, let's get on with today's episode. All right, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast series where we talk about all things personal development, sexuality and mental health. Today, I'm your host, Callum Brecken, and I am joined by special guest Michael K. Michael is the head of global communications at OkCupid, one of the world's largest dating apps, where he leads public relations, programming, influencer marketing and social media. Michael has been a leading voice in dating and relationships and has been featured in many news outlets such as ABC News, Cosmopolitan, the New York Times and the Washington Post, as well as many others. Michael also serves on the Board of governors for Human Rights Campaign. And so today we are going to be going and jumping into some questions about dating intentionally. And we are going to be talking about things like where do you think we're going wrong with dating on all of these different apps these days? Because there's about a million of them. What do you think the difference is between just dating and dating intentionally? Because there is a difference. How can someone be more intentional when they're looking to date seriously and if he has any advice or any stats to share with us. So this is kind of perfect because, you know, Valentine's Day is right around the Corner on the 14th. So thank you so much for joining me on the show. Michael, how are you doing?
2:18
Speaker B: I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
2:22
Speaker A: Yes, I'm really excited to have you as well, because it's like an insider, like we all are the outsiders with these dating apps. But like you're actually like an insider. You know the details. So tell us a little bit more about you and what you do at OkCupid.
2:37
Speaker B: Yeah, so I've been with the company for a little over three years now and I get to help millions of people all around the world find love, which is really just fun and exciting, especially looking at what we've all been through over the past few years. It's been nice to have a job that's really focused on finding relationships for people, but really core to my job is just telling stories. So looking at the responses we're seeing to our in app questions, identifying dating trends and talking about it with amazing people like you.
3:08
Speaker A: Oh, fabulous. Well, we are excited to dive in. So I'm going to start off with the first question is where do you think we're going wrong with all these dating apps? Because honest to God, there are so many and they all offer so many different things and there's like a lot of gamification. So I'm really curious to see what your response is to this.
3:29
Speaker B: Yes, there are so many dating apps out there today. Last time I checked there's over 1500.
3:37
Speaker A: Sorry, 1500.
3:39
Speaker B: Yes, there's a lot. There's literally something for everyone. But when I see where I see the biggest disconnect is, is when daters are looking for deeper, more meaningful connections and they treat dating apps like they are going to get instant gratification, like they are going to log on into their app and within 24 hours they're going to have a date and that's going to be the last date they'll ever go on for the rest of their life. They absolutely can and do. But if you're looking for a long term partner, you really need to put in the work. So dating is hard. I'll be the first person to admit that. It's definitely a part time job. People are kind of surprised when I say that because I work at a dating app and they expect me to say this is the easiest thing you can be doing, but it's not. It's hard. And you, and you really need to dedicate time and effort to online dating. You need to spend time curating your profile, matching with people and having really insightful conversations with your matches. So going back to what I said at the beginning, I think the biggest disconnect I'm seeing is what people expect to get out of it versus what they're putting into their own dating experience.
5:04
Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, because I mean, I remember when dating apps first started coming around and the first one that gays were introduced to was Grindr. Like there was the other apps, but Grindr was really like the first, like, oh, here's one for the gays. And it was just straight up hookup culture. And so it kind of just built in this idea of like, oh yeah, I can go on an app and within an hour I can be like hooking up with somebody or like quote unquote going on a date with somebody. So then that transfers over to these other apps where it's like, oh no, I actually have to spend like time and effort and energy in this. Oh, I can't be bothered to do that.
5:38
Speaker B: Yeah, there's definitely apps like you mentioned that are definitely more transactional. But on OkCupid, we tend to bring in a higher intent data and that's by our product design. So we really make you work for it. You don't just add a name and a photo and call it a day. There's multiple steps you have to take to create a profile. We make you answer at least 15 of our Internet matching questions. You have multiple photos to add, multiple prompts to fill out. So we make you do the work right from the beginning.
6:09
Speaker A: I like that. I want to talk more about this idea of like dating being a part time job because like there's going to be so many people who roll their eyes at this and like, oh, I already have a part time job or I already do this. But when I think about dating, especially dating intentionally, I have been single for the majority of my life and that's not because I want to be per se, but it's because I do take dating seriously. When I do choose to date, like when I want to date somebody, I'm not just like, oh, well, let's see how this goes. I'm like, okay, I see you as marriage potential, which is why I want to go down this dating road with you. Because I see it going somewhere. Because in my head, your partner, your life partner, whoever you choose to be, is going to be also your business partner for life. And so if you're choosing a business partner just frivolously, then who knows what's going to happen to your business if it's going to survive. Like as an entrepreneur, you know, most businesses die within the first couple of years. So same with dating. If you don't take the time to really spend on going through all of that, then you know you're kind of going to get what you're going to get. But what happens when somebody does go through that process. And what mistakes can they be making if they do want to date intentionally, but they just are like, they keep getting hooked up here or there or something. He's messing them up. What are those kinds of things?
7:26
Speaker B: Well, first I just want to go back to what you just talked through, because I think it was a really interesting comparison between dating and or between a partner and a business. And the way I like to look at dating is your dream person is similar to a dream job. And if you get the opportunity to interview for a dream job, you're going to put in a lot of time and effort into that interview process. You're going to be your best self and present your best self and really do your research and spend time preparing. And if you don't, you're not going to land that job. And that's sort of what I tell people or remind people when they are online dating. Going back to your question, which, correct me if I'm wrong, because I just went on a little tangent, was about people who are putting in the effort to dating but still getting tripped up and not finding success, correct?
8:24
Speaker A: Yeah.
8:25
Speaker B: I mean, it's a process. It's not easy, and it's going to take time. Not every single person you go out on a date with is going to be that forever person. And I think that's okay. And I think we need to remind ourselves that that's okay, because I think every person that you meet that's not a perfect match, it's helping you get to that forever person because it's showing you what's more important to you, what's less important, what you don't like. But again, it's. It's a process. There's, you know, no pathway to, or no simple, quick pathway to finding that relationship that's going to last for the rest of your life. Yes, there's some stories like that, but it's work and it takes time.
9:16
Speaker A: Right. Do you think that, you know, specifically as gays, we've been conditioned differently than our heteronormative counterparts to kind of make it a lot quicker and a lot more transactional. Therefore, we don't put in a lot of that effort, or maybe there's also a lot of walls we build up, so we pretend that it's like, oh, we don't care, but we really don't put the effort in because we're afraid that if we do, we're still going to be met with not finding somebody or not really getting a success out of dating.
9:45
Speaker B: Absolutely. I think when it comes to dating and relationships, there's so many other challenges and barriers that we face as gay men compared to our straight counterparts. The first being the actual platforms historically that we've had to turn to. I didn't come out of the college, didn't come out of the closet until after college. And for me, the only way to meet other gay men discreetly was through dating apps. And when I went on to the platforms that were my options at the time, this is back in 2014, the way the platforms were built, the way people behaved on these platforms just reinforced this idea of secrecy and having to hide myself. And that was really traumatizing. So I think that's one challenge that we face as gay men that straight people just don't particularly go through. I think another challenge is, and this is just my personal opinion and theory on it, is that most of us are not out the second we realize that we are gay. That's probably a little bit different for Gen Z, but I'm a millennial. I'm in my 30s now, so it's very different for our generation. And I think after spending so much time hiding who you are, it's almost like we've been caged for so long and there's just this release that happens, that needs to happen oftentimes sexually or however else you're choosing to express yourself. So I think those are a couple of the things that we have to go through that other people might not understand or resonate with.
11:21
Speaker A: Do you think that because we go through that, we can kind of get stuck in that, like, cycle of it, that it's like, oh, I'm going to go out and have all the fun, do all the things I want, but then that perpetuates itself so that you kind of get stuck in that, like, oh, just frivolous dating or hookups and all this, and you don't get into that next stage of, like, okay, but now I actually want to find somebody, but I don't know how to do that because everybody around me is also still in those, like, hookup cycles.
11:45
Speaker B: I think yes and no. And the reason why I say that is because I think, yes, it's a challenge that we're seeing amongst millennial gay daters, Gen X gay daters. But the behavior is really shifting for Gen zers. And when we look at that particular age, demographic, they are across the board, across identities, across race, ethnicity, sexual identity, whatever it is, we're seeing them date more intentionally. There is less of a focus on hook Culture more of a focus on really getting to know someone, build a strong emotional and mental connection before a physical one. So I do think younger daters are changing how all of us are dating.
12:31
Speaker A: Interesting. I really like these facts. I never. I mean, in the back of my head, I always hope that, like, you know, every generation does their own part to move things forward. And I'm like, when are we going to get to that point, especially for, like, the LGBTQ community, When are we going to get to that point that, you know, all of our baggage and all of the shit that we've come with, when are we going to finally get it to the point where they don't have to continue carrying it for us? And it sounds like the next gen is doing that. They're, like, in that pocket where they're like, oh, yeah, okay, we're ready to, like, date intentionally. Okay, so what do you think the difference is between just dating and dating intentionally is then I think dating around
13:17
Speaker B: is more surface level. And then let's also definitely remove the shame or stigma around that, though, because there really isn't anything wrong with dating without the intention of settling down immediately. That's absolutely okay. I think dating intentionally is more authentic and considerate and purposeful and thoughtful. It's about being aware of what's important to you, but also understanding the difference between your must haves and your nice to haves. When we look at our user base on OkCupid, for anyone who's unfamiliar, we have thousands of in app questions. So if you hear me rattling off data points, that's where this is coming from. But we're seeing that more than 6 in 10 daters among a group of 9 million respondents or over the past few years said they're actually ready for their next relationship to last several years to the rest of their life. And surprisingly, to me, that's actually slightly higher for gay men. So we saw that 64% of everyone was saying this versus 67% of gay men specifically. So at least on our app, and again, every app has a little bit of a different user base. Our gay men, the daters on our app who are gay men are really looking to settle down and find those more meaningful connections. So they are dating more intentionally.
14:51
Speaker A: Interesting. I never would have. I mean, I do and I don't because I'm in that phase where I'm like, I'm ready to settle down and date somebody long term. But I'm also. I'm not in a rush for it. I'm a quality, not quantity kind of person. It's like, I know that, you know, I'm in my mid-30s. I'm turning. No, I just turned 36. So it's like, I know that the next person I get to be with, I want that to last at least a significant amount of time. Like, I want to enjoy that longevity, and I really want to build that relationship that I maybe didn't have that when I was a bit younger. Even though in Canada, we've had, like, gay marriage since I can remember, so we didn't have. I didn't have that, like, hang up in the back of my head where, like, oh, I can't get married. That may be down in the United States. That might have been a little bit of a mental factor for people of, like, oh, well, I can't get married anyway. So it kind of stopped. But then that changed, you know, within our generation. So is that, do you think, something that's affecting people's, you know, psychological behavior in regards to dating? They're like, oh, there's an end point for me if that's the road they want to go down?
15:56
Speaker B: I think so. I mean, we've. I sit in. In New York City, so I'm obviously looking at this in the lens of someone who's within the United States. And to your point, I do think we've made a lot of progress in our own country, and I think that could definitely contribute to how queer people as a whole are really dating, how they're thinking about relationships and also how they're thinking about what they can get out of a relationship, because it's not out of the realm of possibility now for a young LGBTQ person to think, of course I can find my forever person. Of course I can settle down. Of course I can get married and adopt children or go via surrogacy or whatever it is. The way they look at relationships and marriage and family planning is very different than some of us within older generations have thought about it, because there were so many barriers to us achieving that.
16:52
Speaker A: Yeah. And so we know that people are now, especially lg, like, the gays were like, yeah, I want to settle down. So how can people now date intentionally if they're in that place where they're like, I do want to find somebody. I do want to settle down. What do they need to do that maybe they're not doing? Or things that, you know, that maybe we don't know here on the other side?
17:15
Speaker B: I would say the first step is to make sure you are ready to date. Are you confident? Are you willing to be honest and vulnerable with someone. I'm going to be a stereo stereotypical gay here and say, as RuPaul says, if you don't love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love somebody else?
17:35
Speaker A: Yeah, I get a gay man.
17:39
Speaker B: I hope everyone's watching the latest season since it just premiered last month. I would say the second step is to make sure that instead of focusing on impressing someone on the first date or at the beginning of the relationship, to make sure you're staying true to who you really are. And that's a balance and that's a challenge. I understand that. Because we all want to present our best selves, especially on a date. But it's so important that people fall in love with our authentic selves. You really don't want someone to love a version of you that isn't complete or truthful. So those are two things that I would really be mindful of if you are wanting to date more intentionally and again, doing something a little bit different than looking for a casual hookup, which again, nothing wrong with that either.
18:32
Speaker A: Yes, I cannot agree with you more. And that's a lot of what this podcast is. We talk about authenticity all the time and how we want to work on being, you know, our true selves. And one of the things I wrote down when you were talking, I was like, therapy. Like, one of my factors is like, have you been to therapy? Are you interested in going to therapy? Is that something that you want to have as part of your life? Because I think just any adult in today's world, it should be part of the conversation. It should be something that they want to do or have or be going through. And if a person's like, no, then that to me is kind of a signal of like, I don't think that this would go long term if they're not willing to even be open to that idea. Because that's something that's important to me and important to me my mental health and other people's mental health.
19:17
Speaker B: I love that you brought that up because we are a very data driven company at OkCupid. And one of the trends we saw from all of 2022 and one of our predictions for this year in 2023 is that discussions around mental health are no longer taboo. They're actually a turn on. We're seeing that being vulnerable is one of the more attractive traits to single these days. More than nine in 10 daters on OkCupid said they are sensitive and that honesty and vulnerability is really paying off when it comes to dating, especially for men. So last year, men who said they are sensitive received 107% more likes and 86% more matches. They also had 113% more conversations than men who said they aren't sensitive. So we're seeing this shift in behavior among daters. I mean, we've been around for almost 20 years, so we're always looking at behavioral trends year by year. And men in particular are more open to having mental health conversations with their partners than ever before. Another enlightening and positive stat that we are seeing is that 71% of over 80,000 men on our app said mental health is important and they're open to having discussions about it, While an additional 21% agreed that it's important. But they also admitted that it's going to take them a bit of time to be comfortable with discussing it with a partner. But again, they're becoming more open to it and they are willing to put themselves out there in a very new way.
21:09
Speaker A: Yes, yes. I'm so happy to hear this because a lot of the work that we do here, you know, gay men going deeper and our support groups and stuff like that, is unpacking a lot of this to create that safe space, especially for gay men, because it can be very difficult to find a genuinely safe space to kind of open up and be yourself and talk about these heavy topics. And we always do for listeners out there, we always have the last Thursday of every month, we do a free group zoom. And we usually talk about kind of any of the overlaying topics we've talked about for that month. But when you were talking, one of the things that popped up is we've done well. Matt, one of our other hosts, he did an episode about demisexuality and how demisexuality is a lot of the emotional intelligence in regards to, like connecting with somebody. And in regards to dating, you need to be emotionally invested in a person in order to date in order to become sexually attracted to that person. And then there's also demisexuality and sapiosexual, which is very intellectual based attraction. And so I consider myself a sapiosexual. Like if you can get in my head and we can have like just this amazing banter conversation of just maybe it's even like the most frivolous thing. But we're both so interested in it and it kind of sparks the mental sparks that for me is how you can lead me down the road of like, let's go on a date, let's get to know each other. And it's a lot less of this, like, posturing, especially as men. And it used to be all about posturing and looking important and all these things. And like, that's how you present to get a. Get a mate and all these things. Now it's very much shifting so that it's like, oh, I'm open to conversations and emotions and being able to know you as a real, authentic, true person. And for me, in dating, that's what you need to have. And when somebody shows up like that, I may not date you forever, but that's a good indication that a date number two will come if you can show up authentically and just, like, be willing and wanting to have really good conversation regardless of anything else. And it's not about impressing the person. It's about showing up and saying, I'm interested in this. This is me. And if it works, it works. And if not, learning how to deal with not that rejection, but just like, it's not a match, and not matching isn't mean you're being rejected, it just means it's not a match.
23:25
Speaker B: Absolutely. I think a lot of that is a result of what we've all been experiencing the last few years. When you really think about it, we have gone through a global pandemic, which for all of us, we had never experienced ever in our lifetimes. And then if we look at at least us here in the United States, many of us lived through the largest civil rights movement of our lifetimes. With the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, we have since seen the Stop Asian Hate movement, a significant rise in antisemitism that we're experiencing all over the country, especially here in New York City. We had to live through a pretty contentious presidential election. So I think coming out of the past couple few years, people are just looking for that emotional and mental support. They have gone through so much by themselves during this pandemic, and what they've prioritized in a match has changed significantly from what we were seeing pre pandemic.
24:35
Speaker A: Yes. What I say to that is psychological safety. It's one of those things that they can talk about. They talk about in the workplace of if you don't have a great boss or you have a negative boss or this, that and the other. It's the psychological safety of coming to work or being able to bring things up to that person. The same can be said for in a partnership, in a relationship. You're looking for that psychological safety of, like, the world might be a mess and shit might be hitting the fan. But I am safe with inside of this container of us so that like we can talk about those things that maybe outside of the relationship people would look sideways at. But you need to have that safety with your partner to be able to unpack these things. Be like, I want to learn about this or I don't know about this and you know, can we learn about this together? And those kinds of things. That's something you need to be able to have inside of relationship. And so signaling that to a potential partner saying like, yes, I am a safe person to be around psychologically, like I will carry things for you and we will work together. And it's not about attacking or put downs and that kind of energy that you can see when you go around out in the community. You can see the kinds of people who are like, oh, she's probably not a nice person to go on a date with because she's just not a nice person. So what other data and stats do you have to share with us in regards to like improving dating chances when it comes to using the apps?
25:57
Speaker B: The first thing I will say is that your introduction matters. We found that saying hey in a first message has an 84% chance of being completely ignored by a match. We also have been seeing that more than 1 1/2 million people on OkCupid in the United States recently answered our in app question about the best icebreakers, with 30% of people preferring a simple introduction where they get to know you and who you are at a high level. So you don't have to give your whole life history and resume but just painting a light on who you are. 30% recommend their match actually just ask them a question. 22% are open to hearing a joke and I, I think that's a risky one because you have to make sure you have a similar sense of humor. So do that at your own risk.
26:58
Speaker A: Definitely.
27:00
Speaker B: And then the last cohort or the Last group was 18% of people liking it when someone mentioned something that they saw on their profile and after you get through that first message, after you have that conversation when it comes to actually going on a date, while 60% of daters, so definitely the majority said anytime works for them. 19% prefer coffee or lunch on a weekend, 15% prefer a Friday night date and the smallest group, 6% are down for post work during. So we're really seeing people be more willing to give up their time on their weekends for a day with a new match.
27:44
Speaker A: Okay, I, I want to talk about like these like introductions like the first talkings. Because like, as somebody who's using dating apps actively, it's like sometimes it's like pulling teeth to just get a person to respond. And then like, these days it just seems like we're Pokemon being like, gotta catch them all. Pokemon cars. Like, it's like they don't actually want to date you or. And then that comes because I always engage. And so I can tell that if they actually want to date, they would actually engage, but they're just trying to collect those feel goods of like, oh, I just want to know that you like me, but I don't want to actually engage with you, but I want to have that hit of like, oh, I like you. But one of the things you said is the simple intro. How would you do a simple intro if you're like, is this meaning, like you're the first person to say something? So you're not just saying, hey, how's it going? You're saying, hey, this is a little thing about me. Is that what you mean by a simple intro?
28:41
Speaker B: Yeah. So. And again, I don't think this needs to be paragraphs because you don't want to overwhelm the person. Especially if there's someone who's so busy and is checking in on these apps fairly quickly. But going beyond, hey, what are you up to? Hey, how's your day going? And just giving a little bit overview of who you are. So think about it as, what's your elevator pitch to who you are as a person? So it doesn't, you don't have to disclose right then and there that you're looking for marriage, how many children you want, but maybe giving a little bit more color about why you're on this app and what you do in your free time. And there might be something for them to react to there. Your hobby could be you love reading or you love cycling. And that gives them something to respond to and say, oh my God, wait, we already have a couple of things in common. I love this author. I love going to SoulCycle, whatever it is.
29:39
Speaker A: Yes. And that's why I like when people actually, I will not swipe on an empty profile or match with an empty profile because it's like, you got to give me something to work with. And my go to is always the, like, I go through their profile and if there's something that intrigues me, that's what I respond to first with, like, that's what I'll be like, oh, this interests me. Or tell me more about this story or something. Because for me I think one of the sexiest things is active listening. And if you respond to my profile with something that says you've actually read my profile, that is so sexy. Because I'm like, oh, you're actually paying attention. You're listening. Chances are you'll be a better listener in real life as well.
30:19
Speaker B: I love that you said that, because one of the tips I give daters all the time is that you need to be really purposeful with what you're putting on your profile. That includes your photos and anything you're writing in it. So your summary section, or about me, whatever it's called on the app of your choosing, how you're responding to prompts, it needs to serve a purpose. And what I mean by that is no one wants to see five of the same selfies. It doesn't give them anything to work off of. But if you upload a photo of you at a Taylor Swift concert, like I will be at later this year.
30:52
Speaker A: Yeah, she got tickets for $5,000. I did.
30:58
Speaker B: Thank God. I would have really lost it. Or a photo of you on vacation, A photo of you after you finished your first marathon. That already gives me three things to respond to with. When I message you, I can ask you what's your favorite Taylor Swift album? Or your favorite Taylor Swift lyric. It tells me that I can ask you where's the next place you want to go on vacation? Or where haven't you traveled yet? Or it tells me that you're interested in running. And I can ask if you ran the New York City Marathon, if you ever plan on it, if that's a goal of yours. It's starting the conversation with something that you're already interested in and they're interested in knowing about. So always, anything you're putting on your profile, make sure it serves a purpose. I think we just covered photos, but in terms of, like, what you're actually writing in, I like to make lists. So list out a couple of books that are on your coffee table. The songs someone can find on your Spotify playlist, the vacations you have yet to take. Again, those are things that give people a chance to start a conversation.
32:07
Speaker A: Yes. And to peek into your world a little bit. Like, I love reading, I love fantasy fiction, and I love, like, LGBTQ gay based books. And so I made it a point during the pandemic to read either authors who were LGBTQ or storylines that were more relevant to us and our lives. And that's something that I have in there. And people are like, oh, well, tell me more And I can get so excited about telling them about these books that I read that I love. And then if they're a reader, they're then like, oh, this is really interesting. I want to now go read these books. I, I pulled up my profile. So if you're listening to the podcast, you won't see this, but if you're watching on YouTube, you will. So when we were talking about photos and like the different photos to have, it is important to show a variety because I'm the same. I hate when it's just like the same photo again and again and again because they're thinking, oh, I look good in all of these. But that's like the smallest amount of everything. Like, that's like one little fraction of to like why I would talk to you. And so for the first one, sorry, everybody. This is unhinged. Okay, Cupid. This is, yeah, a dodgeball, because I love to play dodgeball and I play dodgeball. So that's one aspect that you were talking about. And then again, I have a goofy photo and it's because it's like, this is part of my personality. And then again I have like a travel photo because I like to travel. So it's like I show different sides of myself because it's like, you need to know as an outside person, I'm not just this, like, I look a certain way, I want to appear a certain way. It's like I have goofy sides, I have fun sides. And more often than not, that goofy photo is the one that people will message me about and be like, oh, hey, how's it going? Like, that's the one that catches people because they can see that there's light heartedness and fun that goes into it. So don't just post the same selfie again and again and again. That drives me crazy.
33:55
Speaker B: Well, you aced the dating app profile challenge. I also, I want to call out something that you made me think about when you talked about, like the selfies. I think some of us or many of us are, tend to be so self conscious and we try to put out the best possible photos of us. Basically what photos are going to make us look like models. But instead of people being really attracted to that, they, it actually makes them insecure or doubt themselves and think, oh my God, they're so into their looks. There's, you know, so into their appearance. What if I'm not good looking enough for them? What if they're not attracted to me and it actually becomes a turn off? So again, like exactly what you're doing on your hinge profile. Show your goofy selves. Show who you really are. That's actually what people are going to be most attracted to.
34:50
Speaker A: Yes. Amazing. Okay, so is there any other last little tidbits of wisdom you have for everybody out there looking to date? Because, you know, Valentine's Day season, I actually have never been a big like Valentine's Day person. I know it's a thing that people do, which is ironic because I actually did go on a date with somebody on Valentine's Day and we did end up dating for a while, but it just happened to be the around the time that we met. It wasn't because it was Valentine's Day, but what tips or advice do you have for for our listeners out there who are looking for, you know, connection and love?
35:23
Speaker B: First of all, don't get overwhelmed with Valentine's Day. It is a Hallmark holiday. It means absolutely nothing if you are single or in a relationship on that day. Many other days of the year that are significantly more important. So don't stress. I will give one final insider tip from someone who works at a dating app and it's been really interesting to be a former dating app user and someone who found success on the apps to now working at a dating ad company and learning all the tips and tricks. But if you add something new to your profile every two to three weeks, so just once a month, it's going to trick the dating app algorithm into thinking you're a new user because all this activity is happening on your profile. So the algorithm is going to almost break and think, oh, this is a new person setting up their profile and it's going to start to show you to more and more people. So this is something that works on all dating apps. It's not just OkCupid. So at least once a month, change your photos doesn't mean you have to completely redo your entire profile, but add in maybe two new photos and delete one or two photos or change something you wrote in your dating app prompts, which you should be refreshing all the time. Because if you're talking about a brand new show that just came out and it's a show that first aired five years ago, I know that you're not updating your profile and you are not paying much attention to this. So that is one trick that I find really interesting. I lied. I'm going to tell you another one. Definitely log on a few times a week. You need to be active and spending the time and I really just don't want to hear Anyone complain about this? Because if you look at your iPhone and where you're spending the most time on your apps, I bet you you're spending 10 times more the amount of minutes or hours on Instagram and TikTok and email and text than you are on your dating apps. So I really just. Don't tell me that you don't have time for this, because I promise you, you do. But when you're logging in a few times a week, make sure you're logging on at least every single Sunday. That's the busiest day for dating apps every single week throughout the entire year. And that's the day you're more likely to get a match or message. And the sweet spot is your Sunday afternoon, Sunday night.
37:49
Speaker A: Interesting little facts that you've just shared right there. I think I knew about the Sunday because I feel like that's when I'm usually has the most traction in regards to, like, busyness, but the updating something new once a month that I had absolutely no idea about. And that is actually something that I think a lot of people don't do. Because you, like, on some of the apps, you see the same profile again and again and again. And like, I've been off and on multiple times and like, I see the same profile, same photos, same everything. And it's been like, this is three years now. And I'm like, okay, there's a reason you're still here because you've absolutely changed nothing about what's going on. So thank you. Those are very important. And I do want to say to, like, address, like, the mental health side of it and, like, the going into this, like, if you are going to go into this with, like, dating is hard or, you know, all your own stuff going on up here, that will affect the outcome, that will affect the experience that you were having because you need to make sure that you're also taking care of yourself and that you're in a space where you're like, yes, I genuinely can date, or like, oh, no, this is like, if you've got all the scattered going up here and your life is a giant mess, not saying you can't find love during that time frame, you definitely can. But I'm just saying that maybe if you kind of sort a little bit of that mental stuff out first before you go onto the dating apps, that that might help you get into the right headspace in order to be there and genuinely show up. Because like I was saying earlier, I like somebody who can listen. And if you show up and you're scattered and you're so busy about yourself, that doesn't give you the space to then be open and interested in listening to the other person who's actually in
39:27
Speaker B: front of you 100%. And this is another thing that I tell people all the time that like shocks them because they think that all I want is for people to be on apps for the rest of their life. Which actually couldn't be further from the truth. But I always ask people, are you actually ready to date and are you in the mindset to date? And if you're not, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. But delete the apps because you're going to give people the wrong impression of you. You're also just going to frustrate yourself. So if this isn't something you want right now, delete the apps. Have fun with friends, have fun with family, coworkers, whoever it is.
40:04
Speaker A: Do you?
40:05
Speaker B: And then come back to the apps. They're always going to be here, so come back when you are fully ready.
40:10
Speaker A: Yes. And another thing that I do that I've chosen to do is I get really overwhelmed easily when it comes to like too many things going on. I like to keep things pretty simple. And so I will purposely not match with a lot of people. Like I'll make sure that like I'm not going through and like trying to swipe everybody. It's like if there's like three to four matches, like that's a lot. And I like to kind of go down those rabbit holes and see if there's something there first. And if there's not, then if I unmatch a couple of people, then I go back to being like, okay, well let's see what other matches I have going on. Because then it prolongs the amount of time that a possible connection could happen. Because if you match with like 20 people, the chances are so many of them are going to get lost in the woodwork and like just disappear. That it's like, that was a potentially really great match, but because you were so distracted by all these other potentials, you didn't give that person that quality time, that attention that they deserve to see. Like, oh, is there something here? And so it was all lost because it was just too much all at once. And so I like to really take my time and kind of just match like one or two people at a time and see how it goes and then kind of cycle through love that
41:17
Speaker B: you should be expert at. Ok. Cuban.
41:20
Speaker A: You know, we, we do, we do a lot of this on the podcast, a lot of the things we talk about is around dating and all these things, but it's a lot of the personal development, mental health, health side of things. So I'm really. I'm really excited that we had you on because you got to talk about, like, the insider information on the other side of it, like, what we don't see. Like, the actual, like, statistics and math about things. And, like, some of your tips have definitely been really, really good, especially the one about updating your profile once a month. Like, that is golden. All right. I think that that's kind of where we are today. But before we go, I do want to ask you about your dating journey, because you said very quickly you threw it out there, that you found success. But I want people to know that this isn't just coming from, like, somebody who's single and doing whatever. Like, you've actually gone through it. You actually found love.
42:10
Speaker B: Your listeners are really going to not like me after this one. So, as I mentioned, I didn't come out of the closet till after college. So for me, dating apps were the only place to meet people I downloaded. I want to say about three different dating apps. One was specific to gay men. I wound up deleting that because it was just a little bit too overwhelming for me. One was specific to Jewish men, which I'm Jewish, so that made sense. But I wound up seeing all these people I went to school with, so I deleted that because I got too nervous. And then I, of course, downloaded Tinder. That was one of the first. First ones I ever heard of at the end of my time in college. And I matched with all these. All these men, talked to all these men, but was always super nervous to actually go on a date with them and meet up with them. But there happened to be one guy that I actually ghosted on our first date. Thankfully, he did not show up to the place. We just never confirmed the plans, and that was my way of ghosting. And I wound up apologizing to him later that afternoon and saying, listen, I'm still in the closet. I was really anxious about meeting up with you. And he was patient and spent a month with me talking on the phone and FaceTiming and texting pretty much every day over that month. And we had our first date on a Sunday and then our second date on a Thursday, and he asked me out on that Thursday. And this coming summer will be nine years. So I'm actually dating my Tinder, my Tinder match, and the first date I've ever Been on.
43:52
Speaker A: Oh, my God.
43:54
Speaker B: That. That's not everyone's story. So you have to date around now.
43:58
Speaker A: Everybody has a different story. But I love that story. That's so sweet. Nine years. Yeah, that's like 100 gay years.
44:05
Speaker B: I know, right? I mean, technically, when we first started talking, he couldn't even drink alcohol because he was going into a senior year of college and I had just graduated. So we were.
44:15
Speaker A: You guys, I was like, down the streets. I was like, what? And then I was like, oh, yeah, your drinking age is much older than us. Which I think out of everything you guys do in the States, that is the wildest part to me, I'm like, really? Thank you so much for being on game and going deeper. Podcast day. Like, this has been so fabulous. Michael, where can people find out more either about you or about OkCupid or dating? Give us the details.
44:46
Speaker B: Yeah, so you can find OkCupid at Simply OkCupid on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter, on Facebook. You can find me at Michael kpr, as in public relations, on both Instagram and Twitter. So feel free. I don't know why I just said Twitter. So weird. Feel free to DM me with any dating questions you have. And for the first 30 listeners who hear this episode and make it all the way to the end and listen to what I'm about to say, if you download OkCupid for free or if you already have an OkCupid account for free email subscriptions@okcupid.com from the email address that you used to sign up. And I will give you three months of OkCupid Premium on me to get you ready for Valentine's Day. But no, Valentine's Day is not the most important day of the year.
45:51
Speaker A: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for giving that out to our listeners. I'm very curious. I want to make sure that we keep in touch so that you can let us know, like, how many people actually do, because we do get a large portion of listeners. All right, well, if you've loved this episode and you like what you hear, make sure to go over and give us a star rating on either Apple or Spotify. 5 stars if you're really nice, and if not, then it's okay, you don't have to. And then if you are watching this on YouTube, give us a thumbs up and hit that subscribe button. It lets the algorithm know that you're liking what we're watching and it tells. It tells it to tell other people to watch us. So there you go. That is it.
46:27
Speaker B: For.
46:28
Speaker A: For today. Have a great day, everybody. Peace, love, rainbows, and we will catch you next time.
46:34
Speaker B: Bye.