Latest / Lama Lena Teachings / [2/3] The Four Uncommon Dzogchen Samayas (Amsterdam, Jun 2023)

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[2/3] The Four Uncommon Dzogchen Samayas (Amsterdam, Jun 2023) · Lama Lena Teachings

0:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're good.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: Relax.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: Have a seat.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: Make yourselves company.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Chant, Chant, Chant, Chant, Chant, Chant, Chant,
1:45
[music]
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Chant, Lama, Nam, La, Sol, Va,
2:09
[music]
2:36
SPEAKER_00: .
2:36
SPEAKER_00: .
2:37
SPEAKER_00: .
2:37
SPEAKER_00: .
2:37
SPEAKER_00: .
2:38
[music]
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
3:09
[music]
3:45
SPEAKER_03: So the second
3:49
SPEAKER_01: perspective from which to see the uncommon precept of Zogchen,
3:59
SPEAKER_01: evenness.
4:06
SPEAKER_03: The sanaya of evenness is to transcend conditioned phenomena and settle
4:14
SPEAKER_03: into their actual nature without entertaining any fixation that might alter it.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: Don't grab.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Don't stabilize anything.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: Don't try to make it be in a particular way.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Simply let the five sense consciousnesses rest within the realization
4:41
SPEAKER_01: of suchness devoid of any fixation on outer or inner objects.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: The five senses,
4:52
SPEAKER_01: six senses,
4:55
SPEAKER_03: sometimes they
4:56
SPEAKER_01: count it as five,
4:57
SPEAKER_01: counting the six as feelings, emotions, rather than as a sense.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: But since feelings and emotions are also felt as a physical sensation,
5:07
SPEAKER_01: it can be counted as a sixth sense organ.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Either way,
5:12
SPEAKER_01: five or six,
5:16
SPEAKER_03: these heaps, consciousnesses, Formations of the sensory organs
5:23
SPEAKER_01: in Homo sapiens.
5:29
SPEAKER_03: Without forcing the creation of naming upon them.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: Without avoiding, forcing avoiding the sensation of naming upon them.
5:44
SPEAKER_03: Without either grasping naming or lack of naming.
5:49
SPEAKER_03: You have a sensation.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: You make it into a thing.
5:55
SPEAKER_03: You have some sensations of your eyeball,
5:59
SPEAKER_03: some shapes, some colors, and you name it glass of water.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: You make it be a glass of water.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Here.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, pardon me.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: Without grasping at the doing of that and reifying the doing of that,
6:27
SPEAKER_01: making it be a glass of water.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Without avoiding the doing of that either.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: Do you understand?
6:43
SPEAKER_03: You don't fixate on outer or inner.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: You don't grab the sensation.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: You don't grab the object you're making out of the sensation.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: You don't turn away from the sensation.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: You don't turn away from the object you're making out of the sensation.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: You avoid the two extremes
7:09
SPEAKER_03: and relax into suchness, yeah.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: As it is in this moment,
7:20
SPEAKER_03: you don't try to make the second moment of enlightenment the same as the first,
7:25
SPEAKER_03: nor do you try to make it different.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: You don't guess if it will be the same or different.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: You don't poke.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: You just let it be.
7:46
SPEAKER_03: Questions on that one?
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes?
7:52
SPEAKER_02: What if this glass of water that you just showed is an ice
7:55
SPEAKER_02: with really delicious ice cream and you're hungry?
8:00
SPEAKER_02: So eat it.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: But the desire to eat something
8:06
SPEAKER_03: that you like.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: So what?
8:10
SPEAKER_03: That's not bad.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: Don't hide from it.
8:14
SPEAKER_03: Don't grab it.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: It's what's occurring in the moment.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Allow it to do so.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: Without making it a big deal of reality or pushing it away because you think it's attachment.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: Don't put a judgment on it.
8:32
SPEAKER_03: Don't lay something on top, which is a reification.
8:35
SPEAKER_03: If you're hungry, eat the ice cream.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Why not?
8:43
SPEAKER_01: It's what's happening right now.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: Does this answer your question?
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Yes, Ma'am.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: But aren't the patterns that we work with in the practice based on this pattern
8:56
SPEAKER_02: of like having- Grabbing what you want?
8:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and running away from- Yes,
9:02
SPEAKER_03: but it doesn't help to run away from what you want or to grab
9:08
SPEAKER_03: onto what you don't want.
9:11
SPEAKER_03: That doesn't in any way aid breaking the patterns.
9:16
SPEAKER_03: Not except in the
9:18
SPEAKER_01: Hinayana path,
9:19
SPEAKER_01: the narrow path,
9:20
SPEAKER_01: a little boat,
9:22
SPEAKER_01: where the renunciation,
9:24
SPEAKER_01: the pushing away of all your attachments is the primary practice.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't work for everybody.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: It is thought to work for those who have experienced this and
9:39
SPEAKER_01: other lives primarily
9:41
SPEAKER_01: without lack,
9:43
SPEAKER_01: so that their dissatisfaction Is not from lack of anything,
9:51
SPEAKER_01: but rather a dissatisfaction with perhaps impermanence.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
10:01
SPEAKER_01: People growing up in Tibet, it doesn't work on.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't eat when I'm hungry, I'll die.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And what good is that going to do?
10:16
SPEAKER_03: So if you have an itch, go ahead and scratch it.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: Don't try to force things.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: This is the key to Dzogchen.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: Stop squishing yourself out of shape.
10:29
SPEAKER_03: Stop trying to make it better.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: Trying to make you better.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: If only, you know the if only.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the problem, if only.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: What if you get spaced out,
10:50
SPEAKER_02: but you're missing the sort of sharpness and clarity,
10:53
SPEAKER_02: so you're just more like zoning out?
10:59
SPEAKER_03: Get more sleep.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: Have a cup of coffee.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: Ah, within the don't push, don't shove, you may still
11:15
SPEAKER_03: Do what you need to do for your comfort and well-being.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: Or that of others.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: You still fish the bug out of the puddle.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: Without reifying the bug's bug-ness or the puddle's puddle-ness.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: You just do it.
11:35
SPEAKER_03: You don't make a thing about it.
11:38
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, what a wonderful Bodhisattva am I just saying bug.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, what a terrible boat he sat by and he died anyway.
11:50
SPEAKER_03: See, you're making something.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: That's what you don't bother with, the making something out of it all.
11:59
SPEAKER_03: If you're walking, keep walking.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: Is that comparable to putting your wand in neutral gear?
12:09
SPEAKER_02: You still go through life and what happens and what occurs,
12:13
SPEAKER_02: but you're in neutral gear, so do you engage strongly?
12:17
SPEAKER_03: No, you still engage strongly.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: Neutral gear is a method of finding tawa.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a shiné, where you disengage your attention from point focus.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: This is the analogy, shunt aside the sluice gate of your water wheel.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: Sit with your channel straight,
12:41
SPEAKER_01: shut up,
12:42
SPEAKER_01: and shunt aside the sluice gate of your water wheel,
12:45
SPEAKER_01: which means the creek's still flowing,
12:47
SPEAKER_01: the river's still flowing,
12:49
SPEAKER_01: but you shunted the water aside so it's not going through the turny thing that turns
12:55
SPEAKER_01: the mill wheel.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: So you're not actually grinding any grain.
13:03
SPEAKER_01: You shunted it aside.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: That's what I call putting it in neutral gear, in Western-speak.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: But the original by Voro Rinpoche is shunt aside the sluice gate of the water wheel.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not familiar with water wheels, that's not going to make a lot of sense.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: Could you please say something about the intensity when you are there
13:28
SPEAKER_02: without judging, without anything?
13:31
SPEAKER_03: There is intensity.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: Why shouldn't there be?
13:36
SPEAKER_01: One of your tantric precepts is not to get rid of feelings.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: That's one of the old ones.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Now they got codified into all these little bits because scholars got at them.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: But if you go back to what they were back...
13:51
SPEAKER_01: In the heyday of Tantra,
13:53
SPEAKER_01: which was about 1,000 AD,
13:57
SPEAKER_01: about 1,000 years ago,
14:00
SPEAKER_01: you're going to find the original ones,
14:02
SPEAKER_01: and it's basically not to abandon the substances, not to abandon the five poisons.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Very similar to this.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: And then it got to the original Domsic, which got put into four here, but started as one.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: The tantric precepts started as, I think, three or five things.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: And then everybody expanded upon them and made them into rules.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Which is fine.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: It's just that you can really go down a weird street trying to follow the rules
14:40
SPEAKER_01: without understanding what they're coming from.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: So you don't abandon feelings of intensity.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: They are the five wisdoms.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: When you do your tantric sadhana and the five initiation deities come forth
14:58
SPEAKER_01: and bunk you on the head with the vases and it flows into you and you become
15:04
SPEAKER_01: the deity, you know that in your yidam sadhana?
15:07
SPEAKER_01: All the yidam sadhanas beyond yoga tantra have that.
15:13
SPEAKER_03: While those five dhyani buddhas are the symbol of the five poisons,
15:18
SPEAKER_03: Freed into their natural state, which is the five wisdoms.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: So when you take anger,
15:27
SPEAKER_01: and they also say a big pile of wood makes a much better bonfire than a couple
15:31
SPEAKER_01: of twigs.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And they call very passionate people big piles of wood.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: When you take anger and you don't squish it,
15:51
SPEAKER_03: you don't suppress it,
15:54
SPEAKER_03: and you don't reify it,
15:57
SPEAKER_03: you leave it completely naked in its free and natural state,
16:03
SPEAKER_01: it arises as the mirror-like wisdom of equanimity.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: So does fear.
16:10
SPEAKER_03: Do you all have an amusement park around here?
16:16
SPEAKER_03: You might want to go there one of these days and take the ride that scares you.
16:26
SPEAKER_03: So you experience some fear
16:28
SPEAKER_01: in a relatively safe environment.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the worst is you're going to throw up.
16:37
SPEAKER_03: Or the thing you jump off of, really high up, the parachute thing.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: Those are good for this.
16:45
SPEAKER_03: And don't reify the fear that you feel.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: Don't suppress it either.
16:50
SPEAKER_03: Feel it to the full extent.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: See if you can release it in that moment to its natural shape and you're going
16:57
SPEAKER_03: to experience a nyam of intense clarity and energy.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people discover this in their teen years and get into driving race cars
17:12
SPEAKER_01: or other, we call them adrenaline junkies.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: But they've realized that you can flip fear.
17:22
SPEAKER_03: And they get kind of hooked on it.
17:25
SPEAKER_03: The thing is, no, it's a nyam, it's an experience.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: You don't try not to have experiences.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: You don't try to maintain the experiences.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Middle way.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Don't squish.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Don't suppress.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Don't reify.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Don't make something out of.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: Did that answer for you in a way that made sense?
18:00
SPEAKER_03: Other questions on this one of evenness?
18:03
SPEAKER_03: Evenness doesn't mean lack of bumps.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean smoothness.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean that the moving goes boring.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Nothing happens.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: The stillness never moves.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Like Karmapa XVI's last words, as he was dying, nothing
18:31
SPEAKER_03: happens, yes.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: But that's not that the happening stops.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: That's that there is no thing there happening, and yet the occurrences manifest.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: You're not snuffing yourself out like a candle flame.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: What would be the point?
18:57
SPEAKER_03: In some Hinayana teachings, that is the goal of an Arhat.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: And yes, you personally will see suffering.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: And then, nothing changed.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: You just aren't in it anymore.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: Of course, since you never were, that's not a big deal, but
19:22
SPEAKER_01: that's too hard to talk about.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: What the hell do you think reincarnates anyway?
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, there is reincarnate.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: There is the experience of reincarnation,
19:38
SPEAKER_01: just as the experience of yesterday and tomorrow.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Actually, you die in every moment.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: The you of the next moment isn't the you of the last moment.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: You are a clump.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Not an entity.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And as such, slipping and sliding, bits come in and bits go out.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Clump a slidey shale on a mountainside in a storm.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Bits of me go in you.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Every word I say, a bit of me goes in you.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Every time I see a face or you say a word to me or ask a question, a bit of you goes in me.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: By the end of the session, we have both changed.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: We are not the same people.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: We've exchanged bits.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: I breathe out and my biome enters the room.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: I breathe in and your biome comes and lives in me.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: We are ecologies, not individuals.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: This you know by Western science.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: It's just another way of looking at the same thing.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: You're not an individual.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: You're an ecology.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Here's a question for you.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a Lama Yeshi.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: No, it isn't.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Who gave this one to me?
21:03
SPEAKER_01: It was a lovely... Oh, it was a Japanese Roshi gave it.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: So here's the question.
21:12
SPEAKER_03: If a poor man who has no money gets a yeast overgrowth,
21:18
SPEAKER_03: causing a craving for sugar, and so he steals a doughnut, From the corner store.
21:26
SPEAKER_03: Who gets the karma of the theft?
21:29
SPEAKER_03: Him or the yeast?
21:33
SPEAKER_03: When you die, your critters don't all die at the same time.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Some of you stay alive for a long time and eat your corpse.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: And some of them die when you die.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: And some of them waft away in the smell
21:52
SPEAKER_03: as you rot.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: So, you don't all reincarnate together.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: Some of you might,
22:05
SPEAKER_03: and some of you might go sprinkled off and reincarnate with the person who died next
22:10
SPEAKER_03: to you.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Or tomorrow.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Ron Rick.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Somebody asked me about Ron Rick this morning, self-seeing.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: A Tibetan instruction, they never tell you the whole thing.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: You get to find it out when you do it.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Once the dance of stillness is absolutely obvious,
22:41
SPEAKER_01: turn around, gaze into your own eyes and see the dancer.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: The dancer sees himself.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: That's Tibetan.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: I gave you a lot more words because you seem to like them.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: And I have nothing against
23:02
SPEAKER_03: ice cream.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: Understand that evenness does not mean sameness.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: Evenness does not mean flat.
23:22
SPEAKER_03: Evenness is without fixation,
23:27
SPEAKER_03: without reifying or suppressing, without trying to fix it.
23:35
SPEAKER_03: Every day in every way, you want to be better than you were yesterday,
23:39
SPEAKER_01: don't you?
23:41
SPEAKER_01: You came to the Dharma as some kind of self-improvement crap, right?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: And you've been at it a while.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well what were you trying to improve?
23:59
SPEAKER_03: If it wasn't self-improvement, maybe you wanted to improve something around you.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: But we all came in here trying to improve something,
24:10
SPEAKER_03: otherwise we'd still be out having a beer with our friends.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: It's a good lovely day in the park, that's where we'd be.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: We're sitting packed in this little room because we want to get something out of it.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: You can't keep it anyway.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: That's evenness.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: It's a lack of trying to fix it.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Not a lack of spontaneous movement.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: You don't abandon the five substances.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: You do not stick them in a skull cap and eat them either.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Because that's what you think the crazy sages do.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are some that actually believe that out there.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Among the Hindu crazy sadhus.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little eating shit will get you in the God realm, sure.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: If you eat the right person's shit, I'm sure it will improve your biome.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that a current medical thing?
25:33
SPEAKER_01: It's all a matter of relaxing,
25:35
SPEAKER_01: not suppressing anything of your joys and sorrows, not even your hopes and fears.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: Not reifying and believing them and justifying them either.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: It's all middle way, cut down the center.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: It's a balance of the center, but it's a dynamic balance, not a static balance.
26:21
SPEAKER_03: So it's got the wobble of life in it.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: The sparkle.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Of the light, which is the nature
26:35
SPEAKER_03: of the openness.
26:38
SPEAKER_03: Any other questions about evenness, which was number two?
26:43
SPEAKER_03: Yes?
26:44
SPEAKER_02: I kind of just struggle with how do you combine evenness and the sparkle?
26:53
SPEAKER_02: I always feel like I'm vacillating between stagnation and then like...
26:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, perfect.
26:59
SPEAKER_03: You're getting it.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: That's what it feels like.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: Do you remember when you first learned to ride a bicycle?
27:07
SPEAKER_03: Do you remember at one point,
27:09
SPEAKER_03: very early on,
27:11
SPEAKER_03: you always fell either to the left or the right,
27:14
SPEAKER_03: and you had a favorite direction to fall in,
27:16
SPEAKER_03: like you were always sort of leaning one way?
27:18
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, were you a left faller or a right faller when you started?
27:23
SPEAKER_03: Do you remember?
27:23
SPEAKER_02: On the lawn side.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: The lawn side, good choice.
27:31
SPEAKER_03: As you learn to ride a bicycle, you're not straight upright.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: You're going like, whoop, whoop, whoop.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: Now, by this time, you know to lean into the curve.
27:46
SPEAKER_03: When you're taking a curve at speed, cornering at speed, you have the sense to lean into it.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: You know how much you don't even have to think about that right now.
27:55
SPEAKER_03: Because you've been riding a bicycle long enough, you live in Amsterdam.
28:01
SPEAKER_03: In the Netherlands where it's flat and bicycles are what there is to get around.
28:12
SPEAKER_03: Of course it feels like this in the beginning.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: That wobble.
28:18
SPEAKER_03: That's what I mean by a dynamic balance.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: And if the road becomes uneven,
28:24
SPEAKER_03: say you're going at a speed,
28:25
SPEAKER_03: the road curves, you're going to make a choice to lean in order to stay upright.
28:32
SPEAKER_03: So it's not like, which
28:43
SPEAKER_03: is what you're describing as your sensation, yes?
28:46
SPEAKER_03: It just means you're doing it right.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: It's frustrating because you're at a level and you feel like you're not doing anything.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: Those are the stories you're telling yourself about it.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: The NAM talk.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: You come online.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: I got a group going.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: It's called Working with Thought.
29:11
SPEAKER_03: It's the key to the third word of Garodorji.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: Come join us if it fits in with your schedule here in Europe.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: It's in the evenings, I think.
29:20
SPEAKER_03: Like 6 or 7 o'clock.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: And it's a bunch of people getting together to work on not believing everything you think.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: And that bumper sticker on my car and on my refrigerator.
29:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we call them the crazies who believe everything they read online.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: Anybody here that crazy?
29:52
SPEAKER_03: How is your thoughts different from written down thoughts?
29:58
SPEAKER_03: Aren't they just as dumb?
30:02
SPEAKER_03: If you were to go somewhere privately,
30:06
SPEAKER_03: try this sometime,
30:07
SPEAKER_03: go privately somewhere for an hour where there's no other people around.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: And say everything you think out loud.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: You will, within a short amount of time, notice that most of it is really stupid.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah?
30:32
SPEAKER_03: So, you're doing it right, but you're having thoughts that tell you this and that about it.
30:41
SPEAKER_03: Those are nam talk.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Bunches of nams stuck together with talk, talks with gluons.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: That's particle physics joke.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: So nam talk, also called discursive thought.
31:01
SPEAKER_03: There's thought particles,
31:02
SPEAKER_03: little bitty nams,
31:07
SPEAKER_03: except we attach them to each other and make a thought chain.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: That's a nam talk.
31:14
SPEAKER_03: Stuck together with talks.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: Talks are the little hooky things you put on them.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Watch your thoughts for a moment and see them do that.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Hook together and make a concept.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: A story.
31:33
SPEAKER_03: The problem is the story.
31:37
SPEAKER_03: Not the sensation that you're telling a story about.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: The problem isn't even that you like to tell stories.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: The problem is you believe the stories.
31:54
SPEAKER_03: I could give any one of you right now a story that would make you absolutely hate yourself.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: Or I could give you a story right now that could make you absolutely love yourself.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: And you'd believe it because it came from the Lama.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, the stories Rippoche used to give me on this,
32:17
SPEAKER_01: trying to, it's like a diluted destruction.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: He even made me get Botox for a few years because I was so ugly and wrinkly.
32:27
SPEAKER_01: It was embarrassing to him to have me as a translator.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: He gave me that story.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: What you going to do with it now, kid?
32:35
SPEAKER_01: You see?
32:36
SPEAKER_01: He got some Botox so he'd feel better.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: It didn't bother me.
32:54
SPEAKER_03: Why would you want to believe any of them?
33:04
SPEAKER_03: I cannot tell you,
33:05
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you what my teacher did to me to get me out of needing
33:12
SPEAKER_01: to know what was really going on.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: So there was this thing.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: And it wanted to have sex with me.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: I had just made myself a new cave way up around back out of sight and sound
33:27
SPEAKER_01: of anybody else's cave because I wanted more privacy because there was a friend
33:34
SPEAKER_01: who wanted to be my lover whose cave was right near my cave down below
33:38
SPEAKER_01: and I was having trouble convincing her that we weren't gonna do that.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, just move caves.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: And it was a gorgeous little cave.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: View of the snow mountains and sky all around and you couldn't
33:56
SPEAKER_01: see anybody else.
33:58
SPEAKER_03: But then this thing
33:59
SPEAKER_01: came by.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: It might have been a Kali Sadu.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: It might have been a demon.
34:08
SPEAKER_03: And it wanted sex.
34:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm like 22 years old, 23, so I'm just a little kid.
34:20
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't know what to do about it because I couldn't figure out if it was a man or a demon.
34:26
SPEAKER_03: If it was a man, you punch him in the nose.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: I know what to do about guys.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: If it was a demon, you do some kind of exorcism about it.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: I know what to do about demons.
34:38
SPEAKER_03: But I didn't think an exorcism would work on a guy or a punch in the nose would work on a demon.
34:44
SPEAKER_03: So I got really caught up in having to figure out what was really going on
34:48
SPEAKER_03: and I went to my teacher And when he finally stopped laughing,
34:54
SPEAKER_03: he said, just sit in Dzogchen.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: Don't let it bother you, just sit in Dzogchen.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Sit in a full lotus, keep your channels in alignment.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: So I discovered over the next several days that you cannot actually be raped
35:07
SPEAKER_01: while you're in
35:08
SPEAKER_03: a full lotus.
35:10
SPEAKER_03: However, you can be kept awake and seriously annoyed.
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Now, I am a person who really likes their sleep.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Even way back then, sleeping, sitting up in full lotus and a gum tree, I really liked my sleep.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: So keeping me awake for three days is not making me happy.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: It's also making me hallucinate in the daytime.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: So I go to several people I trust, several yogis.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: I tell them about this thing.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Is it a man or a demon?
35:43
SPEAKER_03: I've got to know which it is, which story is real, in order to know how to deal with it.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: And everybody says something different.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: Rinpoche just laughs and says, I'm not going to tell you.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Lamki says, it's a man call for help.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Why would I call for help?
36:04
SPEAKER_01: I'd punch it.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Finally, Rinpoche says, look, you're not managing this with Zogchen.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: You're going to have to act like a girl and move back down into the place
36:14
SPEAKER_01: where there's other caves.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: Girls don't live way out in the wilds like that.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: That's what guys do.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: So, no, that answer is not acceptable.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: If it kills me, it kills me if I'm staying up here.
36:31
SPEAKER_03: Right, so sit in a full lotus and do his auction.
36:33
SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, it must be 10 days now.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm still not getting any sleep.
36:38
SPEAKER_03: Nobody can,
36:38
SPEAKER_03: he's not,
36:39
SPEAKER_03: whatever it is,
36:39
SPEAKER_03: he can't get it in,
36:41
SPEAKER_03: but I'm not getting any sleep, and I'm being seriously
36:44
SPEAKER_01: annoyed all night.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: Finally, I go to Rinpoche.
36:47
SPEAKER_03: Rinpoche, I'm not a good enough meditator.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm not managing.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Please, I give up.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Tell me what it is.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: So then he gives me a Purba wall.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: And says, okay, this was my Yidam for many years.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: You take this as your Yidam and just do Yidam.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: You're right.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: You're not getting it with Dzogchen.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: So it's going to take a step back.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: We're going to do Tantra.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: So for the next few days,
37:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm constantly all night doing my Purva Sadhana,
37:19
SPEAKER_01: while this, whatever it was, is trying to have sex
37:25
SPEAKER_03: with me.
37:27
SPEAKER_03: And finally,
37:28
SPEAKER_03: at some point,
37:29
SPEAKER_03: and I do not know how long I was in retreat
37:31
SPEAKER_01: with the molesting thingy and
37:35
SPEAKER_01: the sadhana, but one day I turned into Purva completely.
37:41
SPEAKER_03: I was Purva.
37:44
SPEAKER_03: And I smashed that thing with my purba and it screamed like a goat and flew over the bushes.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Or it screamed like a terrified man who just had a purba shoved in his balls
38:05
SPEAKER_03: and jumped running through the bushes.
38:09
SPEAKER_03: I still to this day don't know, but it never came back.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that story helped any,
38:26
SPEAKER_03: but it's how my teacher convinced me that I didn't have
38:31
SPEAKER_03: to know what was really going on to relate to it effectively.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Perhaps if we're around somewhere and the opportunity arises,
38:42
SPEAKER_01: I'll do something like that to you.
38:50
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, it's a bonfire.
38:53
SPEAKER_03: Get to the proper distance for you at any given moment.
38:58
SPEAKER_03: Don't come too close unless you want some destructo.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: Which is not done on purpose.
39:17
SPEAKER_03: You can't As a teacher, sit there and think, I'm going to
39:22
SPEAKER_02: get him.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: You can think, eh, he needs to be gone.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: Perhaps something will occur.
39:30
SPEAKER_03: But you can't reify that, believe it, or grab it, because it's thoughts.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: So you simply remain in openness until an occurrence arises opportunistically,
39:43
SPEAKER_03: and then they do that to themselves.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Do you see what I'm talking about?
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Jalopa never told Naropa to jump off that roof.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: He also never told Naropa to go steal him some more thirds of the wedding food.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: He said it was delicious, he called him boy, but he didn't ask him to go get it.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: Naropa thought,
40:15
SPEAKER_01: and believing the thoughts, Got beat up again because he seemed to need that.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: He was a prig.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Remember Naropa was a Brahmin?
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Highly educated and very pure and very moral and a rule abider?
40:38
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't, so what worked on Naropa would not have worked on me.
40:46
SPEAKER_03: You're beginning to get through the stories.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: I sometimes think things go in a little bit better than just through the text as it sits.
40:56
SPEAKER_03: The idea that you don't have to know what's real from what is not.
41:03
SPEAKER_03: Because you're not gonna.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: So you relate to what appears to be in front of you.
41:13
SPEAKER_03: Anybody ever take de Toro?
41:18
SPEAKER_01: So you know how solid the hallucinations are from the Torah belladonna.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: You can sit,
41:23
SPEAKER_01: peel an orange and eat it and only your friends watching know that there wasn't
41:27
SPEAKER_01: an orange there.
41:31
SPEAKER_03: Consider it as an analogy for reality.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: You will never know.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Those of you who have not taken Belladonna know I'm not going to give you some.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: I think it's excellent,
41:51
SPEAKER_01: but it's a really dicey power plant to work with,
41:54
SPEAKER_01: because if you get the dose wrong, it's fatal.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: So you really need somebody who knows that plant,
42:02
SPEAKER_01: harvested it,
42:03
SPEAKER_01: knows where it grew,
42:05
SPEAKER_01: what condition it's in,
42:06
SPEAKER_01: and how strong the seeds are to grind them, and how many seeds is a dose.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: It's a bit complex to work with.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: But you know what I mean.
42:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: I remember, I also get a very, very strong side effect.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: So I see the hours of the people and everything, but I can't... You don't see
42:28
SPEAKER_03: that normally?
42:29
SPEAKER_02: Not always.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: Not that time, not.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: But then, yeah.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: We did an experiment on a slow night shift when I was working TSA way back as security.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: To see who we could teach to see aura.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: One of the janitors,
42:48
SPEAKER_01: some businessman who missed his plane,
42:52
SPEAKER_01: couple of security guards,
42:56
SPEAKER_01: and a young woman who was going to sleep in the airport and catch a plane
43:01
SPEAKER_01: the next day.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: This is night shift.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: We're successful at seeing auras.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Nothing in common.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Just an eyeball thing.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: That's because when I was bored,
43:19
SPEAKER_01: after I got back from India and was looking after my mother who had
43:22
SPEAKER_01: the heart attack, that was a job.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't TSA then.
43:31
SPEAKER_03: Other questions on evenness before I move on to spontaneous presence?
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: Yes, wherever you are, please.
43:43
SPEAKER_02: For me personally,
43:44
SPEAKER_02: the experience of that is either witnessing what's happening very well,
43:53
SPEAKER_02: not getting involved, or having the experience that's, I call it self-liberates.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: It happens, it's very powerful, doesn't leave any trace.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that.
44:06
SPEAKER_03: No, it's not witnessing.
44:09
SPEAKER_03: That is a disassociation.
44:13
SPEAKER_03: You can get into witnessing without being involved, but that is some kind of suppression.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: It's put on.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: It's created.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: Whereas if you just let go, yeah, they don't leave a trace.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, what were you thinking yesterday?
44:37
SPEAKER_01: I certainly don't know what I was thinking yesterday.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember what happened yesterday.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: But that's partly old fart.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: Other questions?
44:53
SPEAKER_02: Would the word surrender fit even?
44:58
SPEAKER_03: Not to me.
45:00
SPEAKER_03: But then I don't like that word.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
45:05
SPEAKER_03: My formations,
45:07
SPEAKER_03: personality,
45:08
SPEAKER_03: would not use that word,
45:09
SPEAKER_03: but I'm trying to figure out what your personality means by it,
45:15
SPEAKER_03: which might be quite different.
45:22
SPEAKER_03: Tell me what surrender means to you.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: Taking something the way it is, not resisting it, not encouraging it.
45:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay, in that case, yes.
45:38
SPEAKER_03: No, there are words that have negative connotations
45:41
SPEAKER_01: to my personality just
45:44
SPEAKER_01: by how they were used when I was a teenager.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: Bittableness.
45:52
SPEAKER_03: So I have to check because they might not have the same meaning to someone else
45:56
SPEAKER_03: and it's a very subtle difference between yes and not quite here.
46:01
SPEAKER_03: There was another question back.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: There you are.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: So if introducing the question,
46:10
SPEAKER_02: who am I,
46:11
SPEAKER_02: give me agitation, does it mean that I'm not ready or is not the practice for me?
46:20
SPEAKER_03: Not necessarily.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: It might mean you're very close to
46:26
SPEAKER_01: being ready.
46:28
SPEAKER_03: It would depend on whether you happen to
46:34
SPEAKER_03: Have a personality that
46:35
SPEAKER_01: likes to jump headfirst into something
46:38
SPEAKER_01: that causes agitation just for shits and grins as an adrenaline junkie or
46:45
SPEAKER_01: whether you have a
46:45
SPEAKER_03: personality that tends to back off from that.
46:49
SPEAKER_03: Do you see what I'm referring to?
46:56
SPEAKER_03: Do you go towards the thing that looks fierce or do you back away from the thing
47:02
SPEAKER_03: that looks fierce?
47:05
SPEAKER_03: We're all different and we're different at different times in our life.
47:14
SPEAKER_03: In which case it would mean that you're almost but not quite ready
47:18
SPEAKER_03: and it would behove you to do another practice to prepare yourself.
47:27
SPEAKER_03: The answer isn't the same for every personality as it is in every given moment.
47:33
SPEAKER_03: You might have a different answer tomorrow.
47:36
SPEAKER_03: Because you might be a little different tomorrow, somebody else, just slightly.
47:41
SPEAKER_03: Which might be enough for me to say that's a sign of absolute rightness.
47:46
SPEAKER_03: So don't take things out of context.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: Watch out for some of these Reddit debates on the Dharma rumors,
47:56
SPEAKER_03: where some Lama has given some person a teaching.
48:01
SPEAKER_03: That was in a context and someone has taken it right out of that context
48:06
SPEAKER_03: and posted
48:07
SPEAKER_01: it on Reddit like a rule and then said, do you think this is true or not?
48:12
SPEAKER_01: It was true for someone in some circumstance,
48:15
SPEAKER_01: surely if a teacher said it,
48:17
SPEAKER_01: but it might not be true for another person in another circumstance, context.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: Does working with emotion help in this?
48:30
SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like the tendency now is more approaching fear.
48:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm more fearless, like I tried to face it before I was just stepping back.
48:39
SPEAKER_03: So in this case, I would say that this is a nice opportunity to work with emotion.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: And that working with emotion,
48:48
SPEAKER_03: which comes right after working with thought,
48:51
SPEAKER_03: will prepare you for working with phenomena.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Which is a big key to walking through the bardo.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: It actually causes detour-like effects without the use of detour.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: Which is why I will sometimes teach it online,
49:11
SPEAKER_01: but I like to do it in person better because I want to keep a little eye on you.
49:16
SPEAKER_01: Retreats can be buggy.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: It's in Canada later this year.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Find me a place,
49:30
SPEAKER_01: cheap place,
49:31
SPEAKER_01: that we can all gather for a week or ten days, and I'll do it in Europe next summer.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Somewhere in Greece, maybe.
49:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, like,
49:44
SPEAKER_03: because it's cheap down there,
49:46
SPEAKER_03: and you take a little holiday,
49:47
SPEAKER_03: and you go down, and we'll do that retreat in a
49:50
SPEAKER_01: place we can gather.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, all you Europeans, just find such.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: I try to do the major retreats on this continent and the other continent,
50:05
SPEAKER_01: and sometimes also out in India for Asia.
50:11
SPEAKER_03: Shall we move on to spontaneous presence?
50:20
SPEAKER_03: This is the third.
50:21
SPEAKER_03: Do you understand evenness?
50:25
SPEAKER_02: What word would you think we could put here that would be better?
51:01
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
51:02
SPEAKER_03: If we're not going to take evenness, I agree with you, it's not a perfect word for this.
51:06
SPEAKER_03: But we need a different one then, because we need some word.
51:09
SPEAKER_03: What would you like?
51:10
SPEAKER_03: Some words
51:13
SPEAKER_02: express the way to meet it.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: Yes, give me one, in any language.
51:17
SPEAKER_02: You have talked a lot about meeting it in a balanced
51:22
SPEAKER_03: way.
51:23
SPEAKER_03: You think we could use the word balance instead of evenness?
51:30
SPEAKER_02: Okay,
51:37
SPEAKER_03: so we've got a bunch of words that all point at the same thing.
51:42
SPEAKER_03: None of them are going to be accurate.
51:46
SPEAKER_03: Use the word as a handle,
51:49
SPEAKER_03: a label tag,
51:52
SPEAKER_03: so that you have a stack of things and you want to find a particular one.
51:57
SPEAKER_03: So there's your label.
52:01
SPEAKER_03: But don't use it as more than that.
52:04
SPEAKER_03: So when we break down the singular Zogchen precept
52:12
SPEAKER_03: into its four aspects,
52:15
SPEAKER_03: we can use non-existence.
52:18
SPEAKER_03: We could also use the word emptiness here.
52:22
SPEAKER_03: Anna, just a moment.
52:23
SPEAKER_03: Let me see something.
52:26
SPEAKER_03: Do I have internet here?
52:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes, pass it up to me for a moment then.
52:38
SPEAKER_03: That's what I was about to do is flip this to the Tibetan,
52:41
SPEAKER_03: which I can't do without internet, so let me have yours.
53:04
SPEAKER_02: They're calling what we call non-existence here
53:34
SPEAKER_03: That's not the name.
53:36
SPEAKER_03: In Tibetan, they're not naming them.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: Self-occurring natural is what it says.
53:46
SPEAKER_03: So these words are given by the translator.
53:51
SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to see what they were putting for the Tibetan.
53:54
SPEAKER_03: And they're not.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: They don't have a number one nonexistence in the Tibetan.
53:58
SPEAKER_02: No, a little bit later it says .
54:02
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
54:04
SPEAKER_03: Mepe.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: I call Mepe or Mewe in Kampa non-being.
54:19
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, non-existence.
54:22
SPEAKER_03: Does it have a word in there for evenness?
54:25
SPEAKER_01: My scholar who's got his own reading glasses.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: I think they use Nyamjie.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: Nyamjie, okay.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: Nyamjie is open experience, literally.
55:00
SPEAKER_03: So for evenness, we're getting the word open experience, and I like that better.
55:07
SPEAKER_03: Let's keep that one, literal translation.
55:11
SPEAKER_03: Like instead of saying awareness, say the seer.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: Because you can feel yourself as the seer that's looking out from
55:18
SPEAKER_03: behind your own eyes,
55:19
SPEAKER_01: whereas awareness is some iputli thing, ripa is some iputli thing you aspire to.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: Right?
55:28
SPEAKER_01: So let's go with ripa, seer.
55:35
SPEAKER_03: Whatever makes you feel it best.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: Anything else on evenness or open?
55:45
SPEAKER_03: What do you call it?
55:47
SPEAKER_03: Open experience.
55:50
SPEAKER_03: Open experience.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: In this
55:58
SPEAKER_02: non-existent, non-being open experience, there is no problem.
56:03
SPEAKER_02: Even problems are not problems.
56:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
56:07
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes not having a problem gives me the weight.
56:10
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
56:12
SPEAKER_03: This is because you have still a great deal of attachment to entertainment.
56:19
SPEAKER_03: In this case,
56:22
SPEAKER_03: use the bodhicitta as the antidote to the survival reflex,
56:26
SPEAKER_03: which is what's having the willies,
56:31
SPEAKER_03: by turning your attention,
56:33
SPEAKER_03: if not outward to infinity, outward to the problems of others.
56:37
SPEAKER_01: So when you don't have a problem, Start dealing with the world's problems.
56:44
SPEAKER_01: Currently she's running a fever.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: And her immune system,
56:48
SPEAKER_01: the Mamos,
56:49
SPEAKER_01: are all over the place, trying to cut down the infection, which unfortunately is us.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
57:03
SPEAKER_03: Because yes,
57:04
SPEAKER_03: it's that survival reflex once it's entertainment because it only knows it's there
57:09
SPEAKER_03: as it bounces off the interface of entertaining problems.
57:16
SPEAKER_03: And you don't want to kill that.
57:22
SPEAKER_03: There was one other back here.
57:25
SPEAKER_03: Wasn't you?
57:26
SPEAKER_03: Wasn't there somebody that had wavy and strong?
57:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay, then it must be you.
57:32
SPEAKER_02: Is it connected at all with crazy wisdom from Trungpa?
57:38
SPEAKER_01: Crazy wisdom is Trungpa.
57:41
SPEAKER_01: Trungpa didn't make it up.
57:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
57:51
SPEAKER_03: It will manifest
57:53
SPEAKER_01: as that.
57:57
SPEAKER_01: Guru Rinpoche did a lot of crazy wisdom stuff, right?
58:02
SPEAKER_01: My favorite Guru Rinpoche autobiography.
58:06
SPEAKER_01: Eye above North Urgen, there arose in the sky a brilliant, shining double dorgy.
58:16
SPEAKER_03: It shone forth with multicolored rainbow light,
58:20
SPEAKER_03: which caused many living beings to have many experiences.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: End of biography.
58:32
SPEAKER_01: Isn't that a nice story?
58:35
SPEAKER_01: My favorite Horin Boucher biography.
58:55
SPEAKER_03: Let's look at spontaneous presence.
59:12
SPEAKER_01: The Samaya
59:15
SPEAKER_01: of spontaneous presence is the quality of knowing The open radiance
59:23
SPEAKER_01: of suchness,
59:26
SPEAKER_03: which is essentially non-existent and primordially pure,
59:32
SPEAKER_03: in which the profusion of qualities is naturally and spontaneously present.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: Their presence is not dependent on the practice of the four visions.
59:50
SPEAKER_03: So, this spontaneous presence is the seer.
59:59
SPEAKER_01: You, looking out from behind your own eyes,
1:00:03
SPEAKER_01: without any addition or subtraction, is the open radiance of the Dharmakaya.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_03: The lucidity, the luminosity.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_03: The qualities are its sparkle.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_03: They are inherent in it.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_03: It is not dependent on
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: causes or conditions.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: All this work you're going for to get a rainbow body,
1:00:41
SPEAKER_01: not realizing that you are a rainbow body, Year and now.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: Nothing's gonna change.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_01: It is complete as it is.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_02: You want other people to see it, don't you?
1:01:07
SPEAKER_01: They will see it when their karma's there to see it.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_03: By the quality of knowing,
1:01:19
SPEAKER_03: the actual Tibetan word is going to be ,
1:01:23
SPEAKER_03: which is knowing, but refers to a kind of knowing, which is
1:01:34
SPEAKER_03: siddha.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_01: If you don't do this, the won't come out from .
1:01:46
SPEAKER_01: This being gone at all times and on all occasions,
1:01:49
SPEAKER_01: while getting up and sitting down,
1:01:53
SPEAKER_01: whatever you're doing while you do it,
1:01:56
SPEAKER_01: notice the already known Dharmakaya nature of mind.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_01: If you don't, the ngoshe won't occur.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_03: Ngoshe, in this sense, is the open radiance of suchness,
1:02:08
SPEAKER_03: which manifests, which is not a thing, but manifests as kapha,
1:02:17
SPEAKER_03: And the sparkle of the qualities.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: It's not dependent on you accomplishing the four visions.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_03: It's just right there in Treksha.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_01: And it is a Tibetan Dharma rumor about whether your hair and fingernails get left behind or not.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_01: On the Tibetan Gossip Reddit.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_01: What, you think they don't do this too?
1:03:05
SPEAKER_01: Questions?
1:03:07
SPEAKER_01: It's not much in the text.
1:03:10
SPEAKER_01: Because it's simple.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_01: It's all different ways of saying leave the fucker alone.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: Leave it as it is.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_01: Don't poke at it.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_01: Relax.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_01: Let go.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_01: Leave it be.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: Let the display complete itself
1:03:31
SPEAKER_01: without creating more ripples.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_01: Let the little tiggly slow down their drift.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_01: If you poke at them, they're just going to speed up.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: An example that you can use as you practice.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_01: Novo Rinpoche was teaching that.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_01: That's not the full teaching on TOGEL, but it's a preliminary.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_03: Does anyone understand enough of what they're talking about
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: with spontaneous presence to even have a question?
1:04:07
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_02: When you act in the state of spontaneous presence, is there at all any sense of self left?
1:04:21
SPEAKER_02: Or is there no sense of dualship, the action just happening?
1:04:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_01: Embrace the power of man.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_03: There is both and neither.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_03: There isn't a sense of self as separate from anything else.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_03: And yet, there is not a denial of the body and its
1:04:59
SPEAKER_01: hand moving and doing something.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: Circumstance.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_01: Pattern.
1:05:17
SPEAKER_01: Spontaneous presence.
1:05:18
[music]
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: Is just what it is.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_01: No shape.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_03: Can look to those outside of it like being detached from time or
1:05:48
SPEAKER_01: being in the fourth time.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_01: Because the movements and the patterns become obvious in Moshe.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: However, Moshe is a come and go.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_01: At least in my experience.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: Now, I have never said I'm done, have I?
1:06:16
SPEAKER_01: So that may be something that will change.
1:06:20
SPEAKER_01: Couldn't tell you.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: I can only tell you in my experience.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_01: You have a question.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that will help me clarify this.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_02: Is spontaneous presence the same thing as sometimes described as non-action?
1:06:37
SPEAKER_02: Or is it a different concept?
1:06:41
SPEAKER_03: Non-action would be included in it.
1:06:45
SPEAKER_03: As in the third word of Garagdorji, sopa,
1:06:49
SPEAKER_01: the spontaneous action of non-action.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_01: No, it's not conduct.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_01: But it's also what allows the crazy wisdom to manifest, spontaneous presence.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_01: It really is a complete not-grabbing.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_02: Could you explain the difference between noshi and rochi?
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: Rocheek is one taste.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_01: Ngoche is a knowing or a way of perceiving the patterns of time and space.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_03: One taste is the recognition of a rocheek,
1:07:30
SPEAKER_03: which results from wrong rick,
1:07:33
SPEAKER_03: the success of seeing the mind seeing itself, deletes any separation.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: See, we walk around in complete disassociation.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_01: It is a mental illness that we suffer from.
1:07:49
SPEAKER_01: Disassociation.
1:07:51
SPEAKER_01: We have disassociated the subject from the object and the verb,
1:07:57
SPEAKER_01: so that we have separately a me,
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: a thing I am doing, an
1:08:06
SPEAKER_03: action, and a thing I did it to.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_03: That's not real.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_03: There isn't someone who felt thirst and therefore
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: picked up a glass of water and drank it.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_01: There is a simple occurrence in spontaneous presence without that separation.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_03: Spontaneous presence is that is cannot occur without the lack of that separation.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_01: However it is the natural state because that separation never was real.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: It's one of the illusions you walk around upholding.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: Because it maintains the illusion of a self.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_01: And we want that because we're habituated to it because we keep having oopses.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: Such as thinking things that are inside are outside.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_01: Like the stories.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_01: We think they're real.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_01: Nuh-uh.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_02: Can you say that, first say, I am no one, and the second sentence is, I can be anything.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_01: Is this?
1:09:21
SPEAKER_01: This is too solid.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_01: I am no one.
1:09:30
I am no one.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: That's too solid.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_03: I can be anyone.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_03: Anything.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: Anything.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_03: True, but too solid.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_03: That always was anything.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_03: Really nice,
1:09:53
SPEAKER_03: go to
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: Facebook,
1:09:54
SPEAKER_01: go to Tenzin Wanjil's page,
1:09:57
SPEAKER_01: there's a really nice poem on this you might enjoy, called I Am No One.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_01: Have you read it?
1:10:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're going to that.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_01: I remember when he first wrote it.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_02: I am free.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_01: Nice poetry.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_01: However,
1:10:20
SPEAKER_01: it has the context of a certain person expressing themself in a certain situation at
1:10:26
SPEAKER_01: a certain time.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_02: That's why it made me happy.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_03: However,
1:10:32
SPEAKER_03: if you repeat it out of context,
1:10:35
SPEAKER_03: just a word of it without the context of the whole om, it will twist on you.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_01: It sounds too solid, I am no one.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_01: But if you add in the rest of the whole poem, do you have it memorized?
1:10:52
SPEAKER_03: Would you like to say it?
1:10:53
SPEAKER_02: I think it's I am no one.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_02: I can be everything of everyone.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_02: I am free.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's got it's more, it's longer.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is all I know.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I know to live about it.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful poem.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_03: It is in that spontaneous presence where it is possible
1:11:27
SPEAKER_03: for
1:11:27
SPEAKER_03: the spontaneous occurrence of the patterns to occur without anybody steering.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: Without anybody steering,
1:11:42
SPEAKER_03: the natural pattern is such that enlightenment Is the occurrence beyond time
1:11:50
SPEAKER_03: and space.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_03: All Buddhas of the fourth time,
1:11:56
SPEAKER_03: by their nature choose to be all Buddhas of the fourth time.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_03: Volition of the Sambhogakaya, of the life force.
1:12:06
SPEAKER_03: This is the innate and natural pattern that arises throughout the universe.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_03: And yet, because of that vitality, there is the dance, the sparkle.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_03: And so it is a becoming.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_01: It is dynamic rather than static, which is the beauty of it.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_01: All Buddhas becoming enlightened in all moments.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: You're in this too.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_01: We're all in this together.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes?
1:12:51
SPEAKER_02: Could it be phrased to like the embodiment of Dharmakaya?
1:12:56
SPEAKER_02: Or is that too?
1:12:59
SPEAKER_03: The play of Dharmakaya.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: Chukurova.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: Not so much embodiment, Dharmakaya, kaya is form, or shape, or pattern.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_03: Chukuropa, the play of the Dharmakaya.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes?
1:13:30
SPEAKER_02: Can you say that the spontaneous presence is like holding simultaneously both realities?
1:13:38
SPEAKER_02: There aren't both realities,
1:13:39
SPEAKER_03: there's only one.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:13:50
SPEAKER_01: And yes, exactly.
1:13:53
SPEAKER_01: Could
1:13:58
SPEAKER_02: you say that spontaneous presence is what you see in little children?
1:14:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't see it in little children.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_03: You might.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember having that as a little child, and I do remember my early childhood.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_01: Boy, I was even more fucked up than I
1:14:24
SPEAKER_03: am now.
1:14:25
SPEAKER_03: I made the damnedest stories.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_03: When I was nursing,
1:14:29
SPEAKER_03: there was this thing,
1:14:30
SPEAKER_03: like an alligator that lived under the rocking chair,
1:14:33
SPEAKER_03: and when my mom would go forward,
1:14:35
SPEAKER_03: it would try to bite my butt to eat me, and I'd hitch myself up.
1:14:40
SPEAKER_03: And like getting her tipped up because I'm nursing.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm like a few months old when this thing was there.
1:14:46
SPEAKER_03: And then she'd rock back and say for a minute and then she'd rock forward and
1:14:50
SPEAKER_03: the thing would try to bite my butt again.
1:14:54
SPEAKER_03: And oh, the stories.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_03: And then sometimes she'd take me.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_03: I'd like climbed up too high and it was hurting because, you know, I'm pulling the tit with me.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_03: And she'd put me back where I should be.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_03: And then she'd lean forward and it would bite my butt again,
1:15:08
SPEAKER_03: but it wouldn't be able to bite me harder.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_03: And I had this whole explanation going on about how it didn't realize that I went up
1:15:17
SPEAKER_03: and then got put back down.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_03: So it always,
1:15:20
SPEAKER_03: it didn't know that when I had been put back down I was lower
1:15:23
SPEAKER_03: and it could get me harder.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_03: So it didn't try harder.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_03: I had this incredible explanation.
1:15:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, about a year later,
1:15:35
SPEAKER_01: just towards the end of nursing,
1:15:37
SPEAKER_01: before I got weaned, I must have been a little over a year.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: But I was talking.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_01: I was using sentences in a year, which is probably why I remember the early part.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_01: I was verbal early.
1:15:49
SPEAKER_01: It was part of the autism.
1:15:51
SPEAKER_01: Some are nonverbal, some are verbal super early.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_01: My mom started to do it, and I turned around.
1:16:00
SPEAKER_01: I now have the ability to turn my head and look to turn my body.
1:16:05
SPEAKER_01: And I said, okay, what is it?
1:16:08
SPEAKER_01: What's under the rocking chair, Mom?
1:16:12
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I was using compound sentences, I was a year.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_01: And she said, I'm patting your butt as I lean forward.
1:16:19
SPEAKER_03: I've been doing it for a fucking year, I thought it was a monster.
1:16:25
SPEAKER_03: That is not spontaneous presence, that's telling yourself stories and
1:16:29
SPEAKER_01: believing them.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_03: So it may be that you perceive spontaneous presence in small children,
1:16:43
SPEAKER_03: but due to my memories of what it was like, that's not where I see it.
1:16:50
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I see it in old lamas and old yogis.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_01: And even in old ordinary people, old Jacob, Yaakov, down in Israel, the rose farmer.
1:17:08
SPEAKER_01: He had it.
1:17:13
SPEAKER_01: You meet people occasionally who aren't even practitioners
1:17:16
SPEAKER_01: who have this spontaneous presence, karmically, somehow.
1:17:26
SPEAKER_03: It is about 5.30,
1:17:29
SPEAKER_03: I'll take a couple more questions,
1:17:31
SPEAKER_03: and then we're going to continue with spontaneous presence tomorrow morning,
1:17:35
SPEAKER_03: because I don't think it's quite gone in the way the others have.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_03: Hasn't, like, gelled yet?
1:17:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, you keep poking the jello in the fridge to see if you can pour the next layer.
1:17:49
SPEAKER_03: Not yet.
1:17:50
Okay.
1:18:08
How is the first moment different from the second moment?
1:18:11
SPEAKER_02: Because there's no elaboration, there's no this and that.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you are pointing in the right direction.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't necessarily use your words because the second moment is both the same
1:18:26
SPEAKER_03: and different from the first and you don't have to elaborate or you don't have
1:18:31
SPEAKER_03: to fall for the elaboration.
1:18:37
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I sit in a rocking chair,
1:18:39
SPEAKER_03: but I no longer think there's an alligator creature under it.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I think about the alligator creature under it.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_01: I just don't believe it anymore like I did when I was a year old.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_02: So there's nothing to catch very quickly.
1:18:56
SPEAKER_02: Not catch, but be aware of.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_02: And just microseconds later... You're thinking
1:19:09
SPEAKER_03: objectless awareness.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_03: Which is slightly listing to the left.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_03: Ever so slightly you're leaning to the sunyata side.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: Because you can't be totally objectless because phenomena and creativity occurs.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_01: Rather than trying to reword it,
1:19:37
SPEAKER_01: can you say,
1:19:38
SPEAKER_01: can you say,
1:19:39
SPEAKER_01: which is the way we're taking this conversation,
1:19:42
SPEAKER_01: let's try instead
1:19:44
SPEAKER_03: feeling it instead of trying to fit it into words,
1:19:49
SPEAKER_03: because I don't think it does.
1:19:55
SPEAKER_01: With your channels in alignments,
1:20:15
SPEAKER_01: Relax your point focus.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_01: Allow your attention to open in relaxation.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_01: Relax the orifice of your attention.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_01: You are It is,
1:20:48
SPEAKER_01: we are,
1:20:51
SPEAKER_01: the lucidity, the luminous lucidity of the Dharmakaya.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_01: Don't make anything special out of it.
1:21:02
SPEAKER_01: Don't diminish it.
1:21:04
SPEAKER_01: Feel it.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_01: I am, you are, it is, we are, all is,
1:21:15
SPEAKER_01: Naturally, without causes or conditions.
1:21:21
SPEAKER_01: The seer.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_01: Luminously lucid.
1:21:30
SPEAKER_01: Awake and aware.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_01: Without need to suppress.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_01: The play of the Dharmakaya, Chukuropa.
1:21:44
SPEAKER_01: The dance of phenomena, the shimmer and sparkle of the clear light.
1:21:51
SPEAKER_01: Without any need to reify that either.
1:21:57
SPEAKER_01: Just as it is right now in the here and now.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_01: Now let go of here and now as concepts.
1:22:08
SPEAKER_01: And let this spontaneously and naturally open up into the four times.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_01: Just this.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_01: Without grasping or occluding anything at all.
1:22:30
SPEAKER_01: Without naming.
1:22:34
SPEAKER_01: Without suppression of names.
1:22:39
SPEAKER_01: Relax again.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_01: Completely ordinary.
1:22:47
SPEAKER_01: Always was.
1:22:53
SPEAKER_01: Is.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_01: Will be.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_01: You, me, they, them, he, she, it.
1:23:05
SPEAKER_01: All.
1:23:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:23:30
[music]
1:23:44
SPEAKER_00: of
1:23:49
SPEAKER_00: it.
1:23:51
SPEAKER_00: This
1:23:53
[music]
1:24:18
SPEAKER_01: Tomorrow morning?
1:24:21
SPEAKER_01: 11?
1:24:27
SPEAKER_01: Don't think about this all tonight.
1:24:31
SPEAKER_03: Just relax into it, feel about it.
1:24:38
SPEAKER_03: Because thinking is leading us astray, down rabbit holes
1:24:44
SPEAKER_01: of ideas and phraseology.
1:25:01
SPEAKER_01: Is
1:25:17
SPEAKER_02: this your last?