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Why Anxiety Recovery Can Suddenly Feel Like Crushing Depression · Bye Bye Panic

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi there, listener.
• 0:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Before we dive in, I want you to know that this podcast is AI-generated.
• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's crafted from the topics and principles shared in the BiBi panic anxiety recovery program, and while AI helps bring this content to life, the recovery tools and insights remain rooted in the principles that have helped so many people overcome their symptoms for good.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy the episode.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the deep dive.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today we're tackling a question, a really big worry that so many people dealing with anxiety have.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: What if this anxiety actually turns into depression?
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a scary thought, isn't it?
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: It can make you feel totally stuck, maybe even thinking you're just too far gone.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It really can, and that feeling is so common.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: But today, our goal is to unpack that specific worry.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're drawing on some great discussions from the Sean Kasam YouTube channel.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: They really get into the link between anxiety, sadness, and this interesting thing called the lockdown effect.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we want to use those insights to bring some clarity and importantly, some practical steps for you on your own journey.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because this stuff you're dealing with, it's not some life sentence, right?
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: It can be understood, it can be navigated.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about understanding the mechanics behind these intense feelings.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's dive in.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so where do we start?
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe with that fear around labels.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: People feel these intense things, huge panic, high anxiety, but also sometimes deep numbness, real sadness.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and naturally when those lows hit hard, the thought pops up.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hang on, maybe this isn't just anxiety, maybe it's actually depression.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or even like you mentioned by polar disorder, that fear that it's something, I don't know, untreatable or permanent?
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where things get really interesting.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're understanding can make a huge difference.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's crucial to see that often, it's not necessarily about slapping on a distinct label like anxiety or depression.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what is it about them?
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's often more about the fact that you're experiencing emotions any emotion in a very extreme way.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why?
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because your nervous system is, well, let's call it hyper-stimulated or over-sensitized.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Over-sensitized, can you break that down a bit?
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that feel like day-to-day?
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I imagine your internal alarm system is just cranked way, way up.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So your nervous system reacts in this exaggerated way to things that are basically mundane.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty normal stuff.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like what, for instance?
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, like, maybe you avoid watching a sad movie because you know those feelings will just overwhelm you and stick around for ages.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I see.
• 2:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or a tiny frustration, maybe it work or home feels like this catastrophic event.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your reaction is just disproportionate because the system is on high alert caught it.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So everything feels amplified.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: If that's the case, was the first step towards feeling better towards calming that system down.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the first really crucial step, based on what our sources suggest, is to try and let go of those specific labels.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stop trying to categorize every single feeling.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: So don't worry if it's anxiety or depression.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of, yeah.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, try thinking about all these intense emotions.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The sadness, the anger, the panic, even overwhelming joy, sometimes just lump them all together under this one umbrella.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Symptoms of a hyper-stimulated nervous system.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so grouping them all together, how does that help?
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It reframes the whole problem.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It helps you see the root cause isn't necessarily ten different illnesses, but one underlying state that sensitivity and then the next step becomes clearer.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Learning to respond to all of them in the same fundamental way.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: This simplifies things massively.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It takes away the fear that comes from thinking you have multiple separate issues to tackle.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about the intensity, not the flavor of the feeling, you know.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: That makes a lot of sense.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Shifting focus from the label to the underlying mechanism.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, what about that specific fear of depression itself?
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned it might not always be clinical depression as such.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is fascinating.
• 3:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Often, the worry isn't about actually having depression, but it's more like an intrusive thought about depression.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, like the other, what if thoughts and anxiety?
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really no different from thinking what if these heart palpitations be I'm having a heart attack?
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what if I can't catch my breath and I pass out?
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your mind, because it's in that over-sensitized protective state, just latches onto a scary, what if scenario?
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: In this case, because you're feeling moments of intense sadness, it latches onto what if this is depression.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, this specific content of the thought, whether it's heart attack or depression, isn't the main point.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not really, no, that the mechanism is the anxiety itself manifesting that worry.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: The mind finds a problem to fixate on.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just landed under pressure in this time, probably because the sadness feels so strong.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems like that deep sadness can often get stronger, the longer someone's been struggling with anxiety, right?
• 4:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of feeds the fear.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely can.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And think about it, it's perfectly natural to feel sad if you've been stuck.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you've been dealing with debilitating symptoms for months or years, even,
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, missing out on things, maybe losing a job.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, or going into debt, those are genuinely difficult sad circumstances.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the key question to ask yourself is, if this anxiety problem magically disappeared tomorrow, would I still feel this depressed?
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for most people stuck in this cycle, the honest answer is likely no.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: The sadness is often a reaction to this struggle, not a separate illness taking hold.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you've seen doctors ruled out other physical causes, what's the takeaway here?
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you've got that clean bill of health, then you can start to view this sadness as part of the overall anxiety picture.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: See that what if I'm depressed?
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thought for what it is, just another intrusive thought, another symptom.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Recognizing that can really start to take the fear away.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You stop feeding the thought.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You thought giving it power.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, this leads us perfectly into something else that can be really, really confusing for people, especially when they actually start feeling a bit better.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, yes.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: The let down effect.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You start recovering.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the panic attacks less than you're doing more.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then boom.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: This wave of deep sadness hits.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe unlike anything you've felt before.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so counterintuitive, isn't it?
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You think I should be feeling happier now, but this isn't abnormal at all.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a known sort of biological part of the recovery process.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Biological, how so?
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, think about when you're highly anxious for long period.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your body is pumping out stress hormones, especially cortisol.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, the fight or flight hormone.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And cortisol, while preparing you for danger, also tends to elevate energy levels.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Keep you alert, almost artificially propping up your mood sometimes.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like running on adrenaline.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sort of, yeah.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Think of it like drinking loads of coffee every day for months.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're wired, alert, but what happens when you suddenly stop?
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: You crash hard.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You feel exhausted, maybe irritable.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Precisely.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cortisol works in a similar, though much more complex way.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: As you start to recover, as that perceived danger receives in your nervous system comes down, those high cortisol levels naturally start to drop back towards normal.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the letdown, the crash.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the letdown.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: As those stress hormones decrease, you can suddenly feel really tired, lethargic, heavy, and experienced sadness much more intensely at your body recalibrating after being artificially up for so long.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why it's so confusing because we associate anxiety with being wired and stressed, not flat and sad.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, it doesn't fit the picture we have of anxiety.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when that pendulum swings from high-energy panic to low-energy sadness, the immediate thought is often, oh my god, what's this, now I'm depressed, more maybe it's bipolar after all.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because the shift feels so extreme.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you explain that pendulum idea a bit more?
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine your nervous system always trying to find balance on the estasis.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you're anxious, the pendulum swings way up high into that hyper alert state.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: As you recover, it doesn't just gently return to the middle, it often swings past the middle, down into that low energy sad state that's the let down effect.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: kind of yeah before it eventually slowly settles back into a balanced state yeah the absolute key here is to let it swing let it find its own balance what happens if you don't if you panic about the sadness if you start worrying why my sad what does this mean or trying to fix the sadness you're basically interfere you're like smacking the pendulum wall trying to settle you just make it swing more wildly
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So trying to fight it makes it worse.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It often does.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Recognizing it as a normal physiological part of the journey, albeit an unpleasant one, is crucial.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It needs time and non-interference to pass.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that understanding is huge.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk practical steps.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: When that let down sadness hits, or any of these really intense emotions flare up, what do you actually do?
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, remember how we grouped everything under the hypersimulated nervous system umbrella, the let down effect, the intense sadness, it's just another symptom under that umbrella.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a motion.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And just like physical symptoms or intrusive thoughts, the core principle for responding is the same.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Allow it.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let it be there.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let it be there.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds simple, but feels incredibly hard when you're feeling awful.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is hard.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely not easy.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But think about the alternative.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you react to the sadness by worrying about it, why me?
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why now?
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is terrible.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or by feeling really sorry for yourself.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're just adding more negative emotion on top.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're adding worry about the sadness.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's sadness about the sadness.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're digging the whole deeper.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Essentially sabotaging the natural rebalancing process.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you practically let it be there?
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: What does that look like?
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It means acknowledging the feeling without judgment or resistance.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You notice it.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, deep sadness is here right now.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You accept that it's present without immediately trying to push it away or analyze why it's there.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, do you just sit with it?
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you can gently carry on with your day with the feeling.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: The key is not letting the feeling dictate your actions or stop you completely.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You might say internally, okay, sadness, you're here.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel you, but I'm still going to make that cup of tea or I'm still going to go for that short walk.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: So bringing it along for the ride almost.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great way to put it.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You acknowledge it.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't side it and you continue living alongside it, trusting that it's temporary and part of the process.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It will pass if you don't keep adding fuel to the fire with worry.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because recovery isn't just a straight line upwards, is it?
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds more like... Oh, absolutely.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's often described like peeling an onion.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You deal with one layer feel better than maybe another layer reveals itself like this let down effect.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are stages, obstacles, setbacks, it's normal.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that skill of acceptance, it's not a one time fix.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not at all.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Acceptance sounds passive, but it's an active skill.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It takes practice, patience, and courage, especially because your body is literally changing physiologically as you recover.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Court is a level shifting, neurotransmitters rebalancing.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It takes time.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the goal isn't really to control the feelings.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: The goal isn't to control or eliminate the feelings instantly.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's more about creating the conditions for your body and mind to heal themselves.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that means giving them the space in time to do so without constantly interfering with worry, analysis, or resistance.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Trust the process as difficult to this can feel sometimes.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's pull this all together then.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: The big picture seems to be intense feelings, even deep sadness, often stem from that over sensitized nervous system.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: There aren't necessarily signs of a separate worsening illness.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that specific fear, what if my anxiety turns into depression?
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can itself be just another intrusive thought pattern driven by the anxiety?
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And even feeling sad or flat as you start getting better can be totally normal.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the let down effect.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: The nervous system recalibrating.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here's something really important.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Going through this, navigating these difficult stages with understanding.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't make you fragile.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: It actually does the opposite.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: How so?
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It can make you what some call anti-fragile.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: By facing these challenges, understanding them and learning to respond differently, you build incredible resilience.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You learn your own strength.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: This process handled correctly can genuinely make you stronger and more capable in the long run.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a really empowering thought.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this whole experience while incredibly tough isn't a life sentence recovery is possible.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's temporary.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely is temporary.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the most crucial element to the thing that makes the biggest difference is having the right understanding and the right guidance through these stages.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: because trying to figure it all out alone when you're in the thick of it is just incredibly hard and often leads to more confusion and setbacks.
• 12:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It really does.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Having a clear path, knowing what to expect like to let down effect and knowing how to respond effectively, that's key.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the question we want to leave you with today is what might be your next step?
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: What could you do to ensure you have that guidance that's a port to navigate your own healing journey with more confidence and clarity?