Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Tell Me Lies

Transcript

Tell Me Lies · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, tolerators, this is to all the men I've tolerated before.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: With Nadley Katona, your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Today,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to welcome back Rose from the Fiction Fixation podcast.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: You'll remember Rose and Courtney came on to talk about
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: rom coms a few episodes ago. Rose has been doing
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: an amazing job analyzing my newest trash addiction, Tell Me Lies,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and is here to discuss the show now that season
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: two has officially wrapped. Welcome back Rose, Thank.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: You Nat, thanks for having me. This is gonna be
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: so much fun.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. I've been bragging about you. I'm like, so,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: my friend has been so smart art about this dumpster
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: fire show that I'm addicted to because I love mess
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and she's been actually using her brain and it actually
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: makes me feel like this show is valid.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny, like deep diving into a
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: show that's so heavily smut because it's such a smutty show.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: But there is a lot there to unpack.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Well, because I remember that the only reason I watched
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: this show is because Julia Washington of Pop Culture makes
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Me Jealous kept telling me how toxic it was and
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: she hated it and it was making her uncomfortable and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: she hated the book and it was so uncomfortable, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, I have to watch it. I love
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: mess I don't feel when things are uncomfortable, I have to.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And I remember my initial thought being, will people understand
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that this can still be smutty but also very dangerous
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and nothing that you should want. And I feel like
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: that's when I would like classify this as a dark romance.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I'm always worried about getting into dark romance because I'm like,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think people actually understand that this isn't cute.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it is definitely a dark romance. I think
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: the show does do a good job at portraying like
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: all of the anxiety and negative outcomes of being in
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: a relationship like this, so I don't think it's romanticizing it.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: There is like such a dark, dark energy behind the show.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: It's not like a Gossip Girl type thing, because when
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: you look at Gossip Girl, it had kind of similar
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: drama manipulation, but it was very cute.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: See, this is not no, this is the opposite of cutees.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why I love it, because we've
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: talked before about how I'm a huge Cruel Intentions fan
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: and how I was like, I would watch a million
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Cruel Intentions. This very much feels like the Cruel Intentions
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: for the twenty twenties.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say Cruel Intentions was more portraying these
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: type of things as cool. It was portraying manipulation and
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: backstabbing as like sexy and cool. And the thing about
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Tell Me Lies is that even though it is riddled
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: with sex scenes, and the sex scenes are like ten
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: out of ten, like the chemistry, the acting, very very
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: good sex scenes even though it's riddled with them, when
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you really pay attention, they are not gratuitous one hundred percent.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: They like inform the dynamics between the characters, which I
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: found fascinating.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially when and we'll get into I chose to
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: play in this episode out from the women's perspectives first,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: because I think that this show is really a tribute.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: And it was my sister's friend who was like, when
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: you sit there and you remember that these are nineteen
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: year old babies and that they're depressed women, then you
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: start to be like, oh, I remember being in instances
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: like this, and I'm like, oh, I should get off
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: my high horse, because it is hard, like being a
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: woman who's gone through all of this and then like
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: watching women act this way and you're like, that's not
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: girl power, Like that's not what we're doing anymore, ladies.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's so relatable. I think the writing is
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: so honest, like even the dialogue, which I feel like
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: sometimes in teen dramas and young adult dramas, the writing
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: is so like, like you could smell the old men
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: sitting in a circle being like and then they say dope,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: and then they say, you know what's going on, my
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: dudes or whatever, like it usually sounds so stale. If
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: you listen to the dialogue in the show, it's so natural,
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: like you you literally feel like you're listening to normal conversations.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not Lucas Scott just quoting the Catcher and
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the Rye to his naked girlfriend in the car.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's so true, you know, like growing up,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: what we were exposed to, you know, like say, like
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: when I was like ten years old watching Dawson's Creek,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I thought that teenagers were like intellectuals, like we would
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: be smart. Yeah, ma'am, they are not.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: No, and I also think that The Dawson's and the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: One Tree Hills and I never watched OC, but I
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: hear it was popular. I feel like they gave us
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: this like idea that teenage being a teenager was truly
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: just like another false adulthood, So everything should be like
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: high intellect and I'm above this and snooty and sabby,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and I like took on that personality in my tear
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: means onto my early twenties, where it's like, uh, I'm
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: above the mess.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you did feel like you had to be
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: this fast talking, like sarcastic Gilmore girl character, Like That's
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: how I felt, and I think a lot of millennial
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: women could probably relate to that.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then I this is what I've been telling
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: people about Tell Me Lies Season two, And if you
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: haven't watched Tell Me Lies, I'm gonna spoil everything, and
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: that's my right as a person with a microphone. It's
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: on Hulu. Go binge it right now. I So Tell
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Me Lies centers around this group of friends, bad friends
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to one another in college, but there's also flash forwards
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: of them in their adulthood at two of the main
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: cast member's wedding and it's all about like the different
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: relationship dynamics that happen within that friend group, and a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: lot of the relationships I would classify as toxic and
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: not ones that I would want to be in. But
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: it really gets into the idea of how your mental
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: health and mental dynamic goes into every interaction you have
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: in a friendship or a relationship. And I have been
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: telling people at the tail end of the season that
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I would have loved to have gone back in time
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: and been messier when I was in my twenties. I
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: was like, I could have ruined lives and I chose
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: not to, and I regret it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean obviously in retrospect, it's like I
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: would have, you know, like hand on hip, wagging finger.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Boy, let me tell you something. The truth is like
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: we were all digmatized by someone's dusty son at nineteen.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Someone's son that looks like a thumb.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was just, yeah, ruining our lives.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: And I think that is something that I think is
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: brilliant about this show is that the constant, the constant
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: way that the women are truly thinking in their head.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I have the upper hand here. I am the one
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: enacting sexual favors for power. I have the pussy violence
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: on my side and I'm in charge and the like
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: way that we get because I know that I've been
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: caught up on that where it's like it's all on
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: my terms because I'm the one choosing all of this,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: and then like just days upon days and scenes upon
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: scenes of that getting wiped out from under the women,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I've also been that girl where it
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: all comes crashing down. Yeah.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: No, I think that is absolutely like such a relatable,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: such a reliterable concept that young women sometimes mistake male
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: desire with like males valuing them that somehow it correlates
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: like the more I am desired, the more I am valued,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: and it just it doesn't work. It's not real.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we just had an instance on Love is Blind.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're flued into this, but there
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: was a couple that were having sex, probably one of
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: the more not urgent, but like they were one of
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the earlier couples having sex on the show during the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: like honeymoon phase or whatever. And they get home and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: she has PMS symptoms or the flu or she's just tired,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: and she like denies him sex. One day, and then
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: she also says, hey, also, all of these symptoms that
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I'm experiencing get worse when I'm on birth control. So
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: if you don't want kids soon, then we have to
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: start using protection and we have to start using condoms.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, he's doing like the slow,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: polite breakup where it's like, you know, I've just been
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: thinking things over and I don't know if this is
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: anything that I want to get into. And she's so
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: confused because in her head she's like, I'm literally still
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: offering to have sex with you, Like I'm we can
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: still have a sexual relationship. I just need like the
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: next four days off while my hormones read a line
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: or whatever. And he's like, intimacy is really important to me,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: and like condoms are a really big blocker of the
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: intimacy that I'll feel with you. And he's like, oh
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: my god, weaponizing woke therapy language. And I was like,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: oh my god. There it is the example of you
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: can be having sex with them and then the moment
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: that you're not, they're like, oh, that's right. I never
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: viewed you as a person anyways.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I did. I'm not caught to that.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Episode.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: But I definitely have been seeing clips on TikTok and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: it is awful, especially because like in that instance it's
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: real people, you know, so it's kind of like, oh girl.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: And also like these conversations being like public, you know,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: they're archives, like they're part of the psychgeist now like
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I could never but you know, when you look at
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: when you look at tell Me Lies and the girls
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: and tell Me Lies, like literally every single one of
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: them viewsed sex as like as like a way to
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: real men in.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's in very different ways because I think
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: so Megan Oppenheimer, I think recently came out and said
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: that bree was her favorite character. Or did you say
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: that bree was your favorite?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And Megan Oppenheimer and I are indistinguishable.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Indistinguishable. Someone somewhere looked me dead in the eye on
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the Internet and was like, Breeze it. And I do
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: find Breeze so fascinating because in a way, Brie is
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the closest to running this game in like the almost
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: correct way, yeah, to where she's actually getting the more
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: gains out of it, but at the end of the day,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: it still just gets like completely wiped out from under
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: her to the point where I'm like, oh, that makes
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: me sad because Bree's actually nice. Yeah, so Brie.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: When the show starts, Brie is a virgin, and she
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: is just desperate to lose her virginity because she sees
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: it as like a blocker for a normal college experience.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: She's like, if I could just you know, cut my hymen,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: like I could enjoy myself and be, you know, have
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: fun in college, and that concept. I don't know, I
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: don't know how I feel about that, because on one hand,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: I love the idea of not making a big deal
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: out of losing your virginity, you know, like it's you're
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: not it's.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Not a soul pack.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not witchcraft like, it's it's not that serious.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And I think sometimes it can be devastating for young
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: women when they attach all this like meaning and like
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: symbolism to it. But then on the other hand, her
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: wanting to just like kind of give it up to
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the first dude that she comes across. It's also not
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: super it's that great, super super tactful.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I will say that when I was a sophomore in college,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I was having a very similar situation to Breathe. Whereas
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I was like secretly orchestrating these two guys into taking
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: my virginity, and it was like, whoever's going to go
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: for this first gets it, Like.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Was it like a raffle situation, whoever has or's this
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: text message first, you're getting it, congratulations, And it was
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: because I was like, I'm just bored of having this,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: and I do feel like if I didn't have this anymore,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: all of my sexcapades and all of like my racy
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: gossip girl one Tree, hill Brook Davis lifestyle could just begin.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: But it's this whole idea of the mythology around female
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: virginity that like, it's too much pressure, let's throw it
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: in the garbage and whatnot. And I also had in
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: one of them. So the guy that ends up free
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: has sex with for the first time, she never discloses
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to him that she's a virgin, which I'm like, power moved.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: They don't need to know any of our business, but
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: someone does, like someone lets it slip, and he gets
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: so indignant about it, and he's like, I can't believe
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that you would put all of that pressure on me,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: because a man is nothing but fearful that you might
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: actually like have feelings attached to him and he's responsible
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: for those.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Real right, Yeah, So he was subscribing to that idea
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: of like, oh my gosh, if I screw a virgin,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: like that's it.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: She's in love with me, she's obsessed with me. And
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: I had a very similar thing happened to me, where
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: like after the fact, after I had already done up
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and given away my virginity, been in a year and
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: a half relationship and then moved on to my next
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: partner who had known me a while, he said something
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to the effect of, well, I knew that I wouldn't
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: want to be the person who took your virginity. That
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: felt like a lot of responsibility that I just wasn't into.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I was like, so you just waited it's till someone
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: else did it, and that's weird, and now I can
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: have sex with Namby. So like those myths right exist.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Oh I did.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Love the realistic depiction of Breed losing her virginity and
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: how anti climatic it was and how bad the sex was.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: And it really makes me sad for young women out
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: there everywhere that the truth is that these young guys
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: like they don't know what they're doing no.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Also I loved that. So eventually she has she has
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: sex with one of the core group members. His name's Evan,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: and he's actually like gentle and nice to her and
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: just for play and I believe makes her come. And
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: then the flash forward is Evan and Breeze's wedding and
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: or like at least engagement party I think in season one,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, I know so many women who
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: as soon as one guy was nice to them during
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: sex and was like not just pounding into them like
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: a flush of what are those things called flush lights?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't know what are those called.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I would very much like not to know.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Right, but like, as soon as some guy wasn't just
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: like using her body and then like making pushing her
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: into a wet spot on the bed so he could
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: have all the blank hits.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Oh gross, Oh my gosh.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: As soon as one man was nice to you or
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: against all odds made you come, they were like, this
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: is the one I'm in love with. He cares about
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: me the most. Yeah.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: It was honestly kind of disappointing to see that Brie
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: ended up with Evan. Granted we don't see what happens
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: in the in between, because the show starts the beginning
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: of her college career and then it the future episodes
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: are her as a grown woman getting married. But the
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: thing about Evan and Bree's relationship is that it was
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: so passive, like they didn't really choose each other. They
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: were just kind of like bumped into each other by
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: other people and then went, yeah, I guess. And it's
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: not that I don't like them together, because they both
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: seem to have like mirror wounds and there's something about
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: them that makes sense. There also doesn't seem to be
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: any real desire or passion like driving that relationship.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I I have been rewatching season one since
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: we decided to do this, and I just watched the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: party where like Lucy during a drinking game is like
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: every time that Bray drinks, Evan has to kiss her
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and they're like trying to orchestrate her away for Drew
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: for sinister reasons, and like they fall into it or whatever.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: But then Evan gets pissed off that he's been upon
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: and ends up having sex with Gray anyways, so I
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: guess you rested on your morals for nothing, And it
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: is like it's one of those things where like I too. Also,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think that this happens to women as like anyways,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: like in college, after college or whatever, it's thee you
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: were in arm's length away phenomenon where it's like, well,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: he was there, and therefore I let him pay for
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: my Chilley's right.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, when you think about it, evolutionarily speaking,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I love that word. I think it kind of makes
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: the most sense because you know, that's how we used
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to do things.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: It was just like there was.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Just one dude in your village that you weren't related to,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: and it was him, and it was.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Him, that's it. And yeah, and then we praised babies
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: impacts of women and truly didn't even talk to that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: guy very often. And honestly go back to that.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, no, that makes so much sense though.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: It actually makes so much sense that, like, you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: if we're raising kids as a community of women, then
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: like the choice of partner as far as like their
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: personality or how they treat you is like actually not
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: important back in those days because you just needed them
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: to impregnate you. You didn't have to put up with them.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: The whole breed and evan thing is fascinating because she
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: truly dumps some I love when people jump onto the
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: easy out of a relationship, like Ramsey is on Lover's
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Blind was like, uh, no condoms, no wedding, like condoms,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: no thank you, and he jumped on the easy out,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and Breed jumped on the easy out with Evan because
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: he does admit to cheating on her. And then she's like,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: then I'm out.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, was that the easy out though? Because she
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: didn't immediately break up with him, She pretended to have it,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to have had slept with someone else, and then his
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: reaction her what she needed to know. So I think
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: she actually played it really smart. But I think she
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: could only do that because of her attachment style, Like
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: this girl is. You know, she's a foster kid. She
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: alludes to having a really hard childhood. Like people like that,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: unfortunately are never fully like one hundred percent invested because
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: they're used to getting the heartbroken. They're used to people
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: disappointing them, so they kind of to keep themselves safe.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: They always kind of have one foot out the door.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And I think that's I think that's a girl boss. Honestly,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I think more of us should do that.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: I think four of us I grew up in a
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: tribe of women who literally never made me believe that men,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: let alone their male partners, were important, And I think
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: we should. I think we should be telling them daily.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I don't even need you. Should you disappear tomorrow? I
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: don't know, Maybe I be sad for an hour. I uh,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I think we should go back to that.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I would say that it would be amazing.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Society is moving towards that, but it would be amazing
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to be in a place where women are one hundred
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: percent choosing men versus being stuck with men, because too
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: often women are stuck. They are financially stuck, They are
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: stuck because of circumstances, and that that sucks dude.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Right, which also adds another layer to the brain and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Evan relationship because he's fucking rich, like he's fucking loaded,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: And I'm also like, yeah, remarrying him and then get
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: half of his generational wealth.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting though, to think that breed like first,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: you know, first bat, you know, she went to college
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: and she met a millionaire, like like first try, you know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: it's like.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: The plot of Princess Diaries. Why not me?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I feel like she could she could do
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: what those influencers do that kind of like try to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: teach people how to find millionaires, like that could be Brie.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Let's put let's put Brien and Evan to bed for
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a second and talk about I guess we would call
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: this The main couple of the show are Lucy and
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: our Steven, which Steven does look like a thumb. And
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I am very aware that the actors who plays Lucy
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: is dating the actor who plays Stephen, and I think
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that's really brave of her. So I just like to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: recognize that what is so mean? I'm so I told
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you we'd laugh even though yeah, no, I love it. No.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And you know what though, the thing is that the
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: actor that plays Steven, he's not like he's not an
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: ugly guy, but his performance is so slimy it is
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: like it is unnerving, like it gets under your skin.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And I think that is what, you know, kind of
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: like makes him look less attractive, because if you see
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: him in interviews and you kind of see him outside
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: of that role, you're like, oh, he's a he's a
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: handsome guy, Like he's fine, you know, he's And I
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: like that shows are moving towards casting average looking people,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: but like when you see someone average in Hollywood, you're like, wow,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: that's a thumb.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: What an ugo? What an ugo?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: And really they just look like regular people.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I think part of the problem is is I find
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: men distasteful as a baseline. And then have you ever
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: been in an instance where you've heard a friend tell
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you a bunch of stories about a man and you've
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: never seen a picture of him, So you're picturing like
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: your whoever your baseline of good looking man is. And
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: then you, through Internet saluting or she shows you an
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: old picture from a party or whatever, gets your eyes
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: on that man and he looks like he could have
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: been living in a basement in the goonies, and you're like, ah,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: you let that bad be mean to you. That's how
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I feel about Steven. I was like, You're not good
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: looking enough to be this meme.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: No, And I do think that it was really smart
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: of them to cast just an average looking Joe to
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: have this like crazy appeal like this, like charisma, this,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: you know, like sexuality that's like oozing from him.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he is madnet it Like I'm like, oh,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I would have been had by him. Yeah.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Well, especially when you look at and I think about this,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I think about all the time that if we didn't
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: have Steven's point of view, we would completely have the
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: wool over our eyes. Because what Lucy sees from the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: first couple scenes, the first couple of episodes is a
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: guy who was like respectful for boundaries, a guy who
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: was there for her on the worst night of her life.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: A guy who you know, didn't try to sleep with
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: her after the first day, you know, like he really
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: seemed like green flags early on mm hm.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And he also the thing that's diabolical about Steven is
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: he invests time into caring about you without giving a
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: shit about you. It's like just part of the entertainment
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: value for him.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: It's performative. So, I mean, Stephen is a narcissist. And
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: narcissists are really good at imitating that sort of behavior
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: because they observe people, like they know from a pretty
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: young age that like something is not right with them,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: and they learn that they have to put on a
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: performance like, oh, I'm supposed to care when someone falls down.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to run over and ask if they're okay.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: So they're really good at going through the movements and
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: honestly like narcissist aside. I told someone the other day,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I feel like men are getting too good at pretending. Oh,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: because of all the media, Like I feel like romance
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: novels and rom coms, they're kind of giving men a
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: script for how to be like Prince Charming.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I am also almost anti therapy because I'm like, men
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: are using therapy against us to trick us, and they're
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: using therapy language to make us be in this false
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: sense of security, only to later tell us, well, I
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: teat it on you and gave you syphilis, but this
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: is why I did it. It turns out like, yeah,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: actually it was so And like I'm a big proponent
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: of therapy, or at least I used to be. But
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: then but then I did start to look at the
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: way that my friend's partners would argue with them, and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, that's yas lighting, except for he's using
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: all the terms your therapist uses. Yeah, no, it's so true.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Like, well, you know, if an narcissist goes to therapy,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: they're going to get worse. They're not going to get better,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: They're going to get worse at manipulating people. But I
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: think in general, because I used to be the same way.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: I used to be such a huge proponent of therapy.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: But the thing is that, like therapy only works when
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: you are being honest and forthright and when you are
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: ready to like have card have hard conversations and admit
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: like what you're doing wrong, because a therapist is not
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: supposed to call you out on your bullshit. Like that's
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: what people don't realize. Like, therapists are supposed to gently
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: guide you towards realizations, and if you are not coming
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: to those realizations, they're not going to slap you and
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: be like, actually you're the problem. They're just going to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: keep gently prodding you and gently prodding you over years
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: and years. So it could be actually really bad for some.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: People, honestly. Well, and it's like, literally some people need
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that Roman guy from the Jenny Jones show who was
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: just going to scream at you that you were a
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: bad person. Like, some people need that.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I should be a service that we should be able
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: to subscribe to.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exaclf of other people. Yeah, but not in those
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: like weird schools that they sent Paris Hilton to. Just
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: like a guy in a Camo sweatshirt who screams at
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: people if.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: We pay him, He like canvasses the neighborhood and knocks
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: in the door, and he's like, can I speak to
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: the man of the house.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Can I speak to the man who's gaslighting the lady
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: of the house, And she just lines up her husband
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: and her teenage sons and she's like, have all of them? Yeah? Yeah.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I find Stephen fascinating because I'm like, oh, I think
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I've been tricked by a nicer presenting Stephen, where he
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: put in the time to learn just enough about my
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: personality and enough about my ticks and my clicks and
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: all of it to really create for me this fantasy
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: land in my head. And then would say things like,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I was scrolling on Tinder the other day,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: but I don't even know why because I know we're
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: not serious or anything, but I really like you just
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: to like keep me going right right.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I don't know if you noticed this, but
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Lucy was, as we kind of mentioned earlier, she was
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: trying to leverage sex to like get Steven.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: To be exclusive with her.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Like at one point she says, you know, hey, I
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: would like to not use a condom anymore, but you know,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: like but you know, I just want to make sure
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: you're not sleeping with other people. And what she is
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: hoping he says, is oh, you got it, I won't
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: sleep with anybody else, or I'm not sleeping with anybody else,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And instead he says, hey, I would use condoms with other.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: People like going and worry.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: That was so cringe because she doesn't even fight back.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And I have to, like I always I when I
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: see those scenes, I think, like, how would Diana reach
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: act in that situation. Diana is Steven's longtime girlfriend who
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: takes zero shit from him.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Like Queen my God is Diana? I so? And I
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: think what Lucy doesn't learn in season one is that
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: for Steven the sex doesn't matter at all. I think
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: it's literally the game that he cares about is the.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Game because for the longest time, Diana wasn't giving him
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: sex and he was just he was still chasing after
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: her like a puppy dog. Granted he was also chasing
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: after Lucy and chasing after someone else, so but it
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: is about the game, and my god, we have to
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: just stop and marvel at like this man's time management skills.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he must be a journal aler to keep all
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: of his little life straight.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: He has an agenda, no, because like he is you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: he was seeing I mean spoiler alerts, he was seeing
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Lucy's roommate before the show even started and kind of
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: like still keeping up with her once he started talking
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: to Lucy and chasing after Lucy, but then he was
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: also chasing after Diana, trying to get her back. So
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: he's chasing after three women and he has a full
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: horse load as well.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what makes guys like Stephen dangerous is
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that you think, because we've been taught as women that
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: sex is like our ultimate weapon and our virginity is
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the ultimate gift to give some buffoon. But guys like
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Stephen have like gotten to the point where they're like,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: it's easy for me to get laid. This at all
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: isn't like I literally it's like there's a line in
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: James McAvoy's new movie Speak No Evil where his like
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: buddy who's like in on all of the like horrendous
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: violent crimes that James mackvoy is doing, is like we
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: could have killed them right away. Why do you have
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: to play with your food like you're my mom's cat,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And that, in a very sick way can also be
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: like Stephen knows that he can get laid. It's not
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: about the meal, it's about playing with you and feeling
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: like he's in control of you.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I kind of felt like Stephen was getting different
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: different supplies from the different women, because like narcissists have,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: they have different supplies. So there's like a primary supply
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: and a secondary supply. And the primary supply is they
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: need like admiration and they need to feel larger than life,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: grandiosity sort of thing, and the secondary supply is control.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: They need to feel in control. And I think he
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: got the grandiosity from Diana because Diana would constantly tell him, like,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: you have such a brilliant mind, You're going to be
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: so successul like she thought he hung the moon, like
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: she was projecting all of her greatness onto him.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: And in a different way that because Lucy eventually also
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: starts seeing other people too, and Steve, I don't know
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: what is Stephen supplying for her. It must be the
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: grandiosity thing. It must be that she feels like is
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: she's keeping Stephen's attention. It must be because it like
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: speaks to her being spectacular or sexy or smarter than
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: the game or whatever. Because she ends up like being
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: thrown at these really nice guys who are like, hey,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you're really great, and like I would just like really
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: like to date you and love you and cuddle you
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and whatever. And she's like, this is gonna be great
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: for two days and then I'm gonna want it to
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: be icky.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Well I have a theory on that. But for someone
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: to say, like for Steven, what Lucy gives him is control,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: like you could see how and this is what I
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: mean that the sex scenes inform the dynamics between the characters,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: because when there's a sex scene or like a sexual
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: tension scene between Stephen and Diana, Diana's in control. She's
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: kind of the one that's deciding if it's happening or
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: not happening. She will literally their very first sex scene,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: she stops him like mid thrust and she's like, I'm
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: not ready.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: But like when you see the sex scenes between Stephen
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: and Lucy, he's one hundred percent in control. He's got
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: her wrapped around his little finger, and I think he
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: loves that control. And even after, like in season two
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: when they were broken up, he starts, he gets close
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: to her, he starts playing with the button of her
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: pants and she is like breathless, and he says, this
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: is so embarrassing for you because he's stating it was
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: devastating because he was basically saying, I could fuck you
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: anytime I want.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he knows it, and in a sick way,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: she knows it too. And there's part of me who's
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: like Stephen and Lucy, she just stay together for the
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: safety of.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: All of us, just to keep everyone else free from
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: their toxicity. And yeah, it you know, that's such a
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: good point too. And the reason why, like personally, I
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: stopped making excuses for the toxic narcissists in my life
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: is because you could just say, oh, like they you know,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: it's just the way they are, or it's what they
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: went through or whatever. Well, ultimately, these people, they are
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: like freight trains and they destroy everything in their paths.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: And when you look back at their lives, so, for example,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: in the future episodes, when you look back at the carnage,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: like Steven has destroyed so many lives, he has hurt
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: so many people, he has devastated you know, this young
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: woman Lucy, who was never the same, she's literally medicated
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: now in the future and it's like enough is enough,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Well, And I think that luckily for Diana, she had
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: a really good support system and she's brilliantly smart in
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: all of it. Because to me, what I've learned about
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: narcissism is the most dangerous position you can put yourself
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: in is to not be impressed by them. Is to
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: watch them try to beat you with like their grandiosity
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: or to like be grateful to them or whatever, and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: for you to say something like that's not even how
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I like my steak cooked or whatever, and then they're
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: so unmerrored, unmoored because they're like, uh, you should be
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: like in love with me, and you're just like, but
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not, Like I'm not impressed by you. Yeah.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I wanted to go back to what you said about Lucy,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: like what she's getting out of Steven. So I mentioned
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: this in a TikTok video, and I think I might
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: make a follow up because to me, it's very clear
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: that the writers want you to know that Lucy has depression,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: and they she's you know that she's in a depressive state,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: and they do this in subtle ways at first, like
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: she has that conversation with her friends where she's just like, yeah,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: it's just hard, like you know, when you you know,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: when you get older, you just don't care about anything
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: and nothing like really gives you joy.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Or anything like that. And her friends stare at her like.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: What They're like, no, girl, we don't know that. We
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: don't know that. And but anyone who has struggled with
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: depression is like, yes, I know that feeling.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And so we see that. And then later on.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: When Lucy is in a relationship with like that bartender guy,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: she kind of describes something about her past and he
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: says to her, maybe you're depressed, and she rejects it
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: so violently she gets really upset. And then when we
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: flash to the future, she's on medication. And so I
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: think these kind of little.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Uh what are they called easter eggs, These.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Little easter eggs are the writers telling us like, this
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: is what's wrong with her. And I love that they're
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: portraying depression this way because of anybody else, like any
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: other writer who wanted to portray someone as being depressed,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: they would have them in bed unable to get up.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: And that's a spectrum, right, that's like on the far
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: spectrum of depression. Depression exists on a spectrum, and some
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: of the earlier signs of depression are just like you
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: just don't care about anything. It's apathy. It's the inability
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: to care. And my theory on why Lucy gets hooked
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: on Stephen is because when you are in that state
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: where just nothing hits, nothing really sinks in, nothing makes
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: you feel you need extremes. So when people are in
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: that level, anger is something that makes them feel alive
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: because anger can always cut through apathy. And so I
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: think Steven makes her feel something, something bad, But he
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: makes her feel something, and I think that's why when
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: she's like in normal relationships, she's just reminded of like
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: how apathetic she feels and she needs to go back
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: to feeling something.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: No, you're so fucking smart, because I have been on
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: that spectrum of depression. Like I had just texted you like,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: oh well now then I'm out of my four day
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: little bed sinc What if we recorded an episode? And
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: but I have also done the thing where it's like, Okay,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: a chocolate chip cookie didn't hit, maybe a milkshake will hit. Nope,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: that still tastes like stand I should get in a
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: fight with my dad. You know, and that hits like
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: it's like I'm going to call my best friend a
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: dirty little bit, like what if I got in a
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: fight with someone. And I do remember just being in
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: relationships where I'm like, I don't even like you because
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I don't like anything. But I do like how toxic
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: and gross are sex is, and I do like the
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: little thrill that I get because I can trap you
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: up into a situation that isn't good for any of us.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Like I I am hopefully very honest on the show
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: that I used to be like a toxic, mean queen
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: like I used to like I used to come around
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and be like I joke that I didn't do enough
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: violence in my youth, but I did. Yeah. Yeah, I
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: just feel like I could have upped my numbers. I
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: think I was too concentrated on one person at a
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: time and I could have spread that around a little.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: You sent men to therapy, I did. I did, Yeah No,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: And I think that's why I kind of want to
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: make another video about it, because I think it's so
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: important to learn about that spectrum of depression because, like
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I also personally, when I was spiraling into a clinical
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: depress that got really, really bad, the earlier signs of
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: that were like this apathy that could only be cut
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: through with anger, and it just so happened. It was
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: it was a presidential election year, it was twenty sixteen,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: so there was like plenty of like reasons to be angry,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: and I remember kind of being addicted to that anger
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: because otherwise I felt nothing. And the thing about apathy
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: is that if you are not a sociopath, because sociopaths
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: are generally pretty apathetic, it's hard for them to feel anything.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: If you're not a sociopath, apathy is painful because you
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: know it's not normal.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I would say that apathy and boredom are two big
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: really triggers for me because I don't know what to like,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: maybe not boredom so much, but like apathy mingled with boredom,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't know what to do here.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: It's like I apathy is I'd rather just be crying.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Like if I had just cried for the last four days,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: instead of just staring at shows on peapop and being
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: like I can't eat, I love sleep aid and I'm
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: not getting out a coloring book. If I had just
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: been like crying and like screaming on the phone to
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: my mom about how unfair it is and the election
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: is stressing me out and I'm broke. That's at least momentum,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I'm at least doing something.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Like fixing, like working towards something. Yeah, apathy is so
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: dangerous and it's so painful, and yeah, I do want
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: to Like I don't know, just because you know, when
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: I made I made a video on TikTok where I
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: was kind of analyzing Lucy and how she when she
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: first goes after Stephen, it's because she knows that Diana
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: is interested in him, and she and she sees dianas
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: like everything she wants to be. So there's like kind
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: of like a connection by proxy situation.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: It is fascinating what we'll do when we're obsessed with
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: another woman that is nowhere close to what if I
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: was just friends with that other woman. Instead we're like,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with her, Yeah, and ergo, I'm gonna wreck
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: her home.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. But yeah, there is that competitive thing
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: of it. But you know, I think it was partly
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: that it was partly competitiveness, but I think it was
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: also like, oh, she's vouching for him, like if this
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: exceptional woman dated Steven seriously, then he must be prematical
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: prop you know.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then I should also we should all want him.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Right right, And I think because she can't trust herself
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: in the moment, because Lucy is aware that she's apathetic,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh, like, actually, maybe I am attracted to
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: him and I just don't feel it exactly.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Oh I that game of like, clearly I'm attracted to
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: you because this is working out so well for me.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Uh it contribute If I had spent less time, less
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: time apathetic and more time medicated, who knows when the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: release of compulsatory heterosexuality would have lifted from me and
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: me be like why are I attracted or even into
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: the men that I'm obsessively manipulating? Like why why I'm
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: now worried that now I'm showing all my cards And
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: it's like, I promise I'm not narcissistic. I just too
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: am depressed. But I'm on meds now it's fine.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: And you know what that's That's like a good point too,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: because you know, when I made that video about Lucy
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: and how you know, her symptoms all point to depression.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: There were a lot of people that were commenting like
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: I think she's you know, she has borderline personality disorder.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: I think she has this. I think she's also a
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: narcissist da da da, And like I'm refraining from like
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: attached anything else to her because depression is enough, but
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: because I want to drive home the point that like
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: depression makes you someone you're not, and like it's just
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: such a complex disease and people like don't really understand it,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: and it's so important to understand it. And that's why
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like really wanting people to realize that, like everything
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Lucy is doing can be explained by depression, like her
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: bad decisions, her like thrill seeking behavior, you know, like
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: her self absorption that looks like narcissism is actually depression.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Like depression is very it's a very like self absorbed condition.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Speaking as someone who struggles with depression. When I am
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: deeply depressed, I have zero space for anyone else, for
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: what anyone else is going through. Like it's all about
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: this like internal chemical spiral. Again, It's that apathy and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: like you hate yourself because you know it's not normal.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: You know it's not you, And we see that with Lucy.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: She says multiple times like, I don't even know. I
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: don't even feel like myself. I don't even know what
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I'm doing, Like she says that over and over and
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: over again.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, you know another thing that mirrors
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: my own depression journey. And I just realized on a
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: rewatch of season one that the showrunners and the writers
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: did me dirty by never telling me what happened to
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Pippa in high school where her dad is so concerned
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: on whether or not her friends are being nice to her,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: like it's her, it's the first question he asked where
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: he's like, She's like, yeah, I have a couple of friends.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: They're really nice. We'll see them later. And he's like,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: but are they nice to you? And I'm like, what
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: does that mean? Dad?
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Well, and see that's another thing to where like the
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: writers did tell us supposedly what happened to Pepa, but
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: the way it's set up, it's set up in a
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: way way that like you're not one hundred percent sure
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: if it's true, because what we see of Pipa throughout
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: the season is that she is playing a role and
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: she pretends to be someone she's not. So Pippa is
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: actually also a virgin when the show starts, and she's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: pretending that she's like super sexually experienced and that she
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: is like very promiscuous, and it's it's not true. And
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: she also pretends that she has orgasms all the time
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: and it's not true, and it's like, you can understand
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: why someone would like make up these stories to fit in.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: But then when we get the scene where Pipa is
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: talking to Lucy's new roommate, and Lucy's new roommate is
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: a lesbian, and so now Pippa is telling her like, oh, yeah,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I like there was some situation with a girl in
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: high school, and you know, she basically alludes to the
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: fact that she was bullied for being like either by
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: or gay, and and but then in the very next
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: scene we see her being disingenuous again, where like she
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: had told this girl something and then she takes it
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: back the next scene. So it's almost like the writers
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: are telling us like PIPA's not telling the truth, Like
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: don't believe her, Like did she make that story up
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: just because she was talking to a gay person or
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: is it really what happened? Like you just don't know
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: with Pipa.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: And we still don't know in season two and what
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: if it was the last? And I'll never know because
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: as far as I know, the book ended in season two,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: I can't even look it up on the internet because
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not reading the book.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I do relate to Pipa, though, I do relate to
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: like how she has to create a persona to like
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: protect herself. That's very relatable.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure. It's how I ended up straight up
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: until my thirties, And I talk about this in a
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: way that like I should have really been leaning on
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Pippa to give voice to this. Where I tell people
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: like I ended up in relationships with boys is because
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: all you ever hear growing up is wait until you
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: meet a nice boy who changes your entire world, and
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: no one tells you what to do if they change
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: your entire world for the worst bites, Like there's no
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: guarantee that that will be a good way that they're
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: changing it, but you just hear it over and over again.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: So it's like people would be so blown away by
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: how I handled breakups because people would be like, well, nearly,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: like are you okay? Do you want to go out?
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: This said and the other, and I'd be like, yeah,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I'm fine, Like I cried about it, and now it's
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: over and I'm never speaking to them again, and they're like, oh, okay, Queen, Okay,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: moving on, queen. And I think it's like I was like,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: I was never that emotionally invested, and the one time
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I was emotionally invested, it was a fantasy land I
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: was emotionally invested in, and I was deeply depressed, also
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: feeling something for the first time in a while. So
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: it's always just been fake and make believe and play pretend.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: And now I'm a thirty five year old who's like,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: well what now, what even is true? Yeah?
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really interesting. Do you feel like you felt
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: sexual attraction for men previously or do you think you
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: gasolate yourself into feeling that.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: It's really hard because part of the problem is before
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I lost my virginity, men love to like fill my
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: head with these ideas of like, once you lose your virginity,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: you're just gonna be so wild and wanton, And I
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: was like a woman who was obsessed with the avidas,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: the Anne Bolin's, these women who not just use sex
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: to make sure that they had a meal the next day.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: But like we're like I'm using my sexuality to become queen,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: to rule the world, world, the rule of the world.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: And I was always obsessed with women who used it,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: in my mind, to the betterment of their stature, life, station, whatever.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: So to hear things like you're gonna be wild and
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be wanton, and you're gonna be the sexiest
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: you've ever been because you're already so into it, and
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: it's like, was I into it? Or am I as
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: embarrassing as Pippa? And I'm just screaming ah ah ah,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: feeling nothing. Yeah, right, And men don't know the difference.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: It's that it's all performative. Yeah, yeah, I mean I
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: think on some level a lot of is performative for
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: young women who are trying to like feel their way
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: in the dark towards their sexuality because men are no help,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: no regard whether you're straight or not, like no help.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: You got to figure it out on your own. So yeah,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: there is like a performance. Yeah, Like I tell people
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: all the time, I was like I was doing it
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: all for the bit, so I had stories to tell
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: all of you people. You're welcome, it was for the plot.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: You took the d for the plot. I took the
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: d for the plot and then I was like I
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, I think when I started to
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: realize that, like dicks horrify me, I was like, well,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: that's not a reaction that you should have. We're like
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the mere thought of one. And I'm like, ah, don't
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: bring it anywhere near me and don't let it look
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: at me. I'm like, that's not a heterosexual thought. Like
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm like so violent, leave me alone? Did
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the dinahs horrify you? No? That should have been should
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: have been a sign. That should have been the sign.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: That should have been the sign. But it's hard. It's
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: hard out here. And I do feel for Pippa because
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: it is hard out here being women who just don't
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: know and you don't know what was fed to you
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: and you don't know what you decided on a survival
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: basis or whatever. It takes a lot of deprogramming. And
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: that deprogramming isn't going to happen in Wrigley's bed. Yeah. True, Yeah,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: because eventually Wriggley does make her come because he listens
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: to her for ten seconds, right.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: But I mean it was also on her too, Like
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: we can't put it on Wriglely for not making her
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: come when she was pretending to come. So it's like,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: if you are pretending that the guy's making you feel
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: so good that you're finishing, it's not his fault.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: You're lying. The Pippa stuff is so fascinating because we
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: don't get a lot of her in the flashforwards either,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: and it's like, fill in these blanks for me. How
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: did Pippa and Diana combine their iconic natures and become
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: a power couple by the wedding? Like I need to know.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw the seats being planted all the way
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: from season one. So if you're watching season one, pay
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: attention in the background. Whenever there's like a group event
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: and Diana is there, you will always see her in
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: the background talking to Pippa, Like you will always see
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: that happening. So you know, I feel like when I
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: first watched it, by season two, Pippa and Diana being
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: nice to each other, it felt like it came out
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: of nowhere. But when I rewatched season one, I'm like,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: oh no, they were friendly the whole time, Like they
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: were always kind of chit chatting in the background, and
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: obviously they've been building it in season two, like the
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: longing stairs, the kind of like weird questions, So it's
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: not like a complete surprise that they would end up together.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: But I think the showrunner did say that they didn't
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: start dating until after college.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: The showrunner has also come out to say that when
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: it comes to some of these more busy scenes that
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: we have with Lucy, like she has sex with one
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: guy and then immediately well, she has sex with Steven
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and then she immediately runs to the nice guy's bedroom
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: and is like, we should get back together. And then
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: he's like, oh, that should mean that we have sex,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, sure, because I'm one hundred percent
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: not filled with sex juices from someone else. It's fine.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Like that was so hard to watch. It was so
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: hard to watch. I heard that it was so hard
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: to film, And Megan Appenheimer said in an interview, She's like,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I hope that people understand that, Yeah, be
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: hard on Lucy for that moment whatever, But we're so
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: unforgiving to women when it comes to things like that.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, you're right, Megan.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Icon Do you want to hear something really gross?
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I read once that the reason men's penises are shaped
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: the way they are horri as they are meant to
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: scoop out the semen that is inside the bedcha so
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: like they are supposed to be shaped like, you know,
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: like the little semi mushroom heads, and that's supposed to
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: scoop out the old semen, the old like from the
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: previous part, the previous person. You cannot put this on TikTok,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I will die.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: This is why dicks are horrifying. I was right all
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: along to scream at the whatever. I'm unfortunate enough to
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: see one. They're like little spoons, little spoon.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: They're like, no, you're having my baby. I'm scooping out
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: those soul juices. Anyway, So in Lucia's defence, nature has has.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: An Also, men have ragged for eons that they can
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: have sex states for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and have
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: it all be different and there's no way of knowing,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: and it's fine, but it is a This show is
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a really great study of the double standards that we
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: have when it comes to women using sex as a
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: tool compared to men using sex as a tool, and
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: like how women are called diabolical and men are just
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: like well, that's who men are. They're shitty and the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: language that goes along with it.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well when you see, like I think it was
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: the very first episode where Steven goes from like almost
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: having sex with Lucy to then immediately going to his
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: norm room and penetrating Diana, like do you know what
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: And there were no tik talks about that. There were
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: no tik talks about that. Who do you think is
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: the biggest misogynist on the show?
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, who do I think is the biggest misogynist? Well, okay, well,
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: very kind of side character, but Lydia for sure.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that internalized misogyny runs deep.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: And that is really heartbreaking when the misogyny comes from women.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we have a whole episode about like what
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: do you do when it's women who are letting you
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: down in the fight against misogyny? And I think it's so.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: I think the tricky thing about Lydia is her brother
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: drugs and tries to assault Pippa. We then find out
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: that he's been successful at drugging and assaulting at least
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: one other woman, which means that there are more and
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Lydia has no room in her head to try and
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: process that that might be reality. And I've already had
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: women tell me like no, but I get that, like
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: why that would be hard, And I was like, I
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: also understand, but I don't. I'm alway, I'm like, no,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I would throw my own blood away over allegations, like
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I understand that there has to be a
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: process of like accepting it because if from her perspective,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: her brother that she has known her whole life, she
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: thinks he's a good person, he was raised right, and
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: he says this didn't happen, Like I understand that the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: inclination would be to believe him. But but but I mean,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: and and we didn't really get information on like because
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: we know there.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Was a hearing about this, like sexual assault, but it
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: was like a brat hearing.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't really get like the evidence.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Really And I think also so then Lucy kind of
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: co opts Hippa's assault story and she says that it
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: happened to her to shut a guy up at a
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: bar Who's like, okay't believe that, Like bitches lie about
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: this isn't that crazy? And Lucy's like, you don't know
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: what the fuck you're talking about because maybe she's not
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: a liar because maybe it's happened to me. And then
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: like it is in front of Peppa and Diana and
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: they're like what the fuck, And I'm like, oh, that's
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: also like, oh what the fuck moment, But I also like,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's something that, like, in the wrong moment,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: my fiery feminist ass would also be like, well, fuck you,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: it happens to one in four of us and it
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: happened to me or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: The showrunner, Megan Oppenheimer, was really worried about that thought point,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Like she was really she said, like, if there's something
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: that's gonna get us canceled, it's going to be that.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: And I don't know why they were so worried about it,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: because they handled it really well. Like you could see
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: in the moment Lucy like bubbling up, Like you could
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: see how it was like a the moment thing, and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: it's also a very lucy thing to do, like Lucy
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: is very impulsive. And then the aftermath of it, you know,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: having Diana confront her and say, you know how awful
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: it is to lie about something like that. So I
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: think they handled it well, but then also we know
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: it's not a lie, like it's a it's a proxy, right,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Like it didn't really happen to her, but it did happen,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: So it was it was hard. It was hard to
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: it was hard to really grasp that it was a
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: really bad thing because the guy is a rapist, so
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: it's not like anyone's lying about him being a rapist.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: And I think that's like part of the problem. And
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: I think that's like the deeper layer of it is
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: that so often we know that these things have either
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: happened to ourselves or women that we are close to,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: and we believe women and as on a large scale society,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: and the law enforcement and the judicial system doesn't. So
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: you're always at this like scarcity, mindset, panic when it
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: comes to shit like that. And sometimes you're just so
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: sick of people sticking up for rapists, right yeah, no.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: And then but you know, like I think in general, like, okay,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: so the way our justice system is set up, right,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: believe my bank account set up, the way our justice
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: system is set up is supposed to be to let
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: ten guilty people go to avoid convicting one innocent person,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Like that is really the spirit behind the justice system
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: is like, if ten guilty people go free, it's worth
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: it if we don't put a single innocent person in prison,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: which obviously it you know, in practice it doesn't end
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: up being that way, But that kind of philosophy of like,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: if there's one person lying, is it worth believing them
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: because the other ten people are telling the truth?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: And so that's kind of the thing of like women,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: because even if one of them is lying, it does
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: more damage to not believe the one that's lying than
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: to you know what I mean, It does more damage.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: It's kind of the same thing well, and then also
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: my viewpoint on it as well, it's like women, we
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: are unfortunately, we are prey and we are preyed upon,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: and so it's kind of the same thing to where
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: like if there's a child saying something happened to them,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: that someone abused them, like, believe that child, right because
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: because they are what's the word, Yeah, they're they're an
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: at risk group. So like, if a child says someone
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: abused me, we should believe them ten out of ten times,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: even if there's a chance one out of ten times
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: that they're lying.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I I didn't know that Megan had come
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: out like me and Megan and Oppenheimer are really close friends,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: and if she wants to be cool, I didn't know
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: that she had like said, like, if there's one thing
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: we're getting canceled on, it's that, because I watched that
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: and immediately went, oh, no, I exactly know why that happened.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Like sometimes you're just so fucking tired of it, and
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: you have the one thing in your pocket that'll shut
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: it down. And sometimes it's the thing that say in
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: your pocket is technically someone else's, but you can bend
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: it to a point where it still shuts it down
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: because you're just I'm tired, Like I'm just so hired
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: all the time of people being like, well he's never
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: been convicted, m okay, thank you. It is.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: It is disappointing, but it's also like, I mean, even
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: when you look at a character like Stephen, where it's
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: like Stephen has moments where he does good things, or
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: he's there for people, or he holds Lucy all night
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: as she's crying, or he shows up for Wrigley to
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: be there for him. Side note, it was also beneficial
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: for him. But like people are complicated and the idea
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: that someone is a villain who twirls his mustache and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: only plots horrible things like that is such an antiquated
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: way of looking at things, and it's why people take
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: these black and white opinions of like, no, he could
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: have never done these bad things because he did this
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: one good thing.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and do our What do you think
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: has been your biggest lesson from tell me lies and
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: watching it and analyzing them all from a mental health level.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I found it really interesting, like I said,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: the way that they're portraying depression, and I think seeing
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: the comments that I'm getting on the videos that I've
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: done is making me realize like, oh, this is a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: conversation that needs to be had because people have a
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: very like one note idea of what depression looks like.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: And it's a topic that's really like close to my heart.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: So I'm like, I definitely think that's worth talking about.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: But then also just like really seeing the devastation that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: toxic relationships have like over the span of your lifetime,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Like you think like, oh, it was just a stupid
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: boy who fucked with my head when I was seventeen,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: and then you're thirty five and you're not recovered.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, uh see every other episode of this podcast
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: c see our entire existence, the entire existence. Well, and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: I think I think one of the things that people
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: could take away from the show is too that like
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: it's okay for this stuff to still have an effect
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: on you. I talk about this a lot whenever we're
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: talking about Taylor Swift, and people will be like, I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: can't believe she's still dropping easter eggs about Jake Jillenhall. Well,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: maybe Jake Jillen Hall fucked her up in a very
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: core wound way, right, You ever think about that? Right?
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: It's such an easy thing to say, like just get
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: over it. Yeah, but I think it's such a brief
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: thing to say. No, I'm actually never fucking getting over it.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Right. In fact, I'm talking about it every day. Every day,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna look at one person and be like, Jake
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: Jillenhall not a great.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: Guy, Like I will fucking die mad about it.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna die mad about it. Like. Also, if you're
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: mad that I'm still mad at Jake Dyllen Hall, then
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: bitches can stay mad. That's my new thing to say now,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: is that like when people like comment about something that
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I've done and they're like, eh, y, we're rad I'm like, bitch,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: you can stay mad.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just stay angry and it's not hard to do.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: It just feels like everyone online is just perpetually like
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: triggered and angry about things that like make me, make
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: me realize that I always am operating on like a
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: low level of depression because I'm like the apathy just
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: kind of comes up to where I just wonder, like,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: how are you this passionate about fucking anything, about.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Sucking anything, including like literally anything that I've said? Yeah, yeah, uh,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: what do you think would be a manifestation that you
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: would like to offer anyone who sees themselves in the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: characters of tell Me Lies.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: I think the manifestation let's see you deserve better, you
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: are better. You can walk away like that sunk cost
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: fallacy of like oh we've been dating for four years
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is, it's like walk away, yeah, drop it.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. A friend told me on this podcast baby that
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I was the only person who told her after the
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: end of her marriage that eighteen years didn't have to
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: be her entire life.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Yes, Oh I've got another one. I
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: love this. I forget where I heard it, but I
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: really love this phrase. If it's fragile, break, oh, let
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: it break, Like, let it break, because we spend so
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: much time. I don't know if it's a woman thing,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: but I feel like I see a lot of women
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: that just really spend a lot of time like nurturing
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: things that are so fragile, and it takes like so
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: much mental effort, so much of their lives, so much
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: of their joy, like trying to like put bubble wrap
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: around something that's super fragile, and it's like, hey, babes,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: maybe it was meant to break.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to manifest twenty two years of
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: tell me lies. I want it to be a longer
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: run than Grey's Anatomy, which is still actively running. Yeah.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: Grey's Anatomy has stolen twenty years of my life. Yeah,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to tune into it as soon as
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: I get up this mic.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Because it's still is still worth it.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: No, but you know what it is, it's a comfort
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: to know that every Friday I have a new Grayson.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like I've been doing this for twenty years. Yeah,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: so at this point it's just nice to know that
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: I can do it.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: So you're like, just there's there's a trauma can that
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: you're just kicking down the road until the day, until
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: the day they cancel this.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I told myself that I would leave when Alex Korrev
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: was done, and then Justin Chambers went bet and then
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: he left in a very stupid way, and I got
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: mad and kept going.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: So even remember when I stopped watching it. But the
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: last like the last thing I really remember is kind
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: of like the aftermath of Derek dying. So it was
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: a long time ago.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: I will say that this is what actually happens. They
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: keep bringing in women that I'm so attracted to on
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: like a spiritual level, not even like they're beautiful women,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: but I'm so into who they are. So did you
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: ever watch that trashy show Rain, which was about Mary
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: Quino Stotts, But it was like did you ever see
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: a Night's Tale? Yes, So it was like a Night's
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Tale doing Mary Queeno Scott's. It's so good. I think
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: her name is Adeline or Adelaide Kaine or something like that.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: She's so hot, she's on grace now, and I think
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: that she's just like a wickedly smart actress. So I
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: was like, the fine, I'm fucking back in. And then
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: this week they were like Sophia Bush anyone, and I
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: was like, God, damn it, I'll watch it till I die.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm all in. I will do anything for Sophia Bush.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: It turns out, including tuning in to Gray's a Dad
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: Made Friday on Hulu. Uh. So, I hope that Megan Oppenheimer.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Is that how you say her last name? Or is
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: that just the guy with the bomb? Yeah?
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: I mean I yeah, I think so.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, Meghan, my good friend Megan. I hope that she
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: becomes like a household name as a showrunner because I
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: think she's doing When you actually put down all of
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: your baggage and how uncomfortable you are watching this show,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this is fucking masterful. It's phenomenal. She's doing
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: a someone understands, either their own depression or someone else's
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: because she's doing great.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: This show has a sauce that's like really hard to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: quantify because on the surface, it has just very basic
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: shit that other shows have, like the sex and the
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: drama and you know, like the young adults yet getting
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: into like Spike and like a mystery, you know, like
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: the che mystery. So it has like very staple ingredients,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: but there's something about how it comes together in the
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: sauce that I haven't felt this like engrossed in a show. Yeah,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think ever.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: So I want her to be a household name. I
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: want her to call me and for us to be friends.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: That's my manifestation. I want twenty two years of tell
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Me Lies because I'd watched this type of show about
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: people who didn't even know lou see. Like, if it
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: just becomes Grace where we throw away some cast members
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: and put in other cast members, I'm in.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think that's the only way
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: to make a show like this, like a legacy show,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: is you'd have to just graduate into a new class.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Degrassy the next generation for sure, for sure
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: we love de Grassy.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Degrassy is like it's funny, but the Grassy is like, uh,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: like a little touch of tell Me Lies, but it's just.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: Not very subtle, you know. It's well and like tell
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Me Lies feels like a very grown up, very smart,
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: pretty little liars.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: It does. It's just it's very subtle. It's not it's
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: it's oh gosh, like it's not showy. Yeah no, it's
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: not putting on a dance for you. It's making you
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: work for it.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Because I get a lot of shit for watching my
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: Freeform trash because I love Freeform Team teen dramas. Like
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: my start texting me one time and she's like, now
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: they're making one about Mermaids. You're gonna watch that fucking
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: stupid show. And I'm like, yeah, I am tea. You
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: mentioned that funny. You should mention that it's already saved
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: on my Hulu list. But I feel like Freeform gave
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: me the training wheels for tell me lies. There you go. Yeah,
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: it's all relative. Rose. Have I mentioned lately that I'm
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: so glad that you and Courtney are my friends on
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: the internash? We love you, We love you so much,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: we love you. I love you. Make sure everyone knows
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: where they can find all of your smart things about
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: the movies and the TV that you are watching.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes, So, first of all, want of
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: lower expectations. They're not smart at all. They're usually very unserious.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: So like our whole thing is just like it's all
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: satire and unseriousness. So If you want to check out
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: our movie recaps, you can check them out on our
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: podcast Picture Fixation. We do have a TikTok. I do
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: have several more serious videos about tell me lies, and
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: I'm just kind of like debating how much longer I
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: want to be serious because engaging engaging with the Internet
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: in an earnest way is being an exercise in like madness.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: I kind of just want to go back to satire.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: Number one, They are smart things because people are so
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: dumb when it comes to satire now that to continue
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: to create satire and make it funny and good is
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: brilliant because people are like my favorite movie drop Dead Gorgeous.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: You think I could show a twenty year old drop
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Dead Gorgeous in the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: four and have them get it.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it's funny. I sometimes wonder, like, because you know,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: we have mutuals and stuff that like message us when
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: they listen to our episodes, and it's so amazing to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: like hear people's takes on it. But I'm like, man,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: there are like a lot of strangers out there consuming
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: our podcast, and I just I have a lot of
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: faith in them. And then they're intelligence because like like
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: sometimes I don't even know when we're being serious. Like
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: sometimes like we just like dip in and out of
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: like satire and comedy and then just being like really
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: arenest and serious, and then the next thing we know,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: we're just like yeah, because we love the patriarchy, you know,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: we love the patriarchy.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: That I mean, that's one of the pillars of to
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: all the men before. That's everything you stand for, right,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: It's everything I stand for. Honestly, if the Patriarchy ended tomorrow,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: would I be happy or would I be sad that
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: the show had to be over?
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know, right, So you do you admit on
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: some level, on.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: Some level, I need it for the drama and the
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: adrenaline for my apathetic days and the melancholiage. There you go. Well, everyone,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: you can see us on men I've tolerated pod on Instagram,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: there's YouTube, there's TikTok at family K one two four,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: and that's also my personal Instagram. In case you want
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: to figure out what I'm doing, I'm making I'm putting
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: my face back on the internet, believe it or not,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: and I'm making a diligent effort to make misogyny funny,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: So why don't you join me? Because I think I
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: think misogyny is so laughable and if we keep laughing
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: at it, they're going to be so mad.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: Misogyny really is so unseerious.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: It's really make sure to check all that out. And remember, tolerators,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: you don't have to smile through anything you're tolerating, including
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: people diluting your depression. Just down to like the really
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: big sads, smiles are for joy, and your depression is
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: more than the big sads