Latest / The Power of Doing What Matters / That’s Enough: Peter Fritz on Doing Less and Building Confidence
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- Peter Fritz — That’s Enough Peter Fritz: [00:00:00] My wife couldn't pick up our kids, or it was very, very hard to, and now she's running around and playing with them, and I'm working out, with the program that Tim has me on three days a week, and very active. And when time allows I will go golfing, and I'm looking forward to get back into surfing. So yeah, we are more active and capable now than we've been since probably before high school. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Peter, it's great to have you on the podcast today, and very grateful that you've, you're joining us, from out there in that, that wonderful, land, where you live in, California Peter Fritz: Yeah, it's a nice day here. And hi, Dr. Skaggs. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Oh, thank you again. [00:01:00] Yeah, I'm currently in Texas, and I think we're at our 30th day of 100-degree, 100-degree weather, it's, yeah, we're, getting a good initiation to some of that wonderful Texas heat here. Peter Fritz: It sounds like it. Yeah. It... It's been in the, 80s here, which is abnormally hot for San Diego, so people are complaining- but I'm enjoying it. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. when our clients visit from those wonderful places, they always like to rub it in. It's, it's 80, a high of 80 today. Peter Fritz: I know. Can you believe it? Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah, again, thanks for, being on and, just I've really enjoyed meeting you and Michelle and your family over these, couple of years. and so [00:02:00] grateful that you're agreeing to be on the show and share some of your stories and learnings, with, our audience here. Peter Fritz: Yeah, thank you for the opportunity, and like I've told you in the past, you have literally changed my life and my family's life, most importantly my wife and including our two little kids. I call CIHP a family affair for us. And anything I can do to help other people find you and the great work that you and your team do, I'm more than happy to. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Thank you. Thank you very much, Peter, and I'm grateful that y'all have had such success and, it is, the work of our team. We're just an amazing team and as I try to redirect for clients when they have that kind of success, it is... It's your body. It's that amazing body that God [00:03:00] created and us helping you get it out of the way, get yourself out of the way so that, that resilience can just come shining through there. It's a combination of things and efforts, for sure. Maybe, maybe start with how we first got started and connected with Michelle, your wife, coming or coming to see me, and I think she started virtually, if I'm not mistaken. Peter Fritz: That's right. Yeah. My wife has had musculoskeletal pain issues really her whole life and, severely her whole adult life, including in college and onward. And we went through the typical, Western medical system of just being bounced around from doctor to therapist to [00:04:00] surgeon, being told it's all in your head or there's nothing wrong or you need to have surgery and everything in between, and never found an answer, and it was never given an answer, never given a reason why or something that really helped. And what ultimately, how we found you was Michelle was having a particularly challenging time, and I was just desperate to do anything to help. And I was listening, I was on the podcast circuit, listening to different talking heads and stumbled across, Professor Stuart McGill and his teachings. And I was like, hey, this, he sounds knowledgeable and viewing it and then talking about it in a way I hadn't heard before. And so I went online to try to find someone who could help us and came across your profile and the team at CIHP, and I said, "This sounds even more interesting, like more holistic and could be great." Problem is, we're in San [00:05:00] Diego and you're in St. Louis. but we saw the, you offered, initial consultations and Michelle and I did it, and frankly, we were a little skeptical. It sounded a little too good about "you don't need surgery and we can really help", but frankly, we were desperate. And we had our first virtual consult. I remember, I think Michelle was even in a neck brace. She was having such a challenging time. and you just had her do, get into the breathing position, feet up, arms by her sides, work with her to adjust the thickness of, the pillow behind her head, and then just breathe. And that alone, it was still a slow recovery, but it made a difference. And so we're like, there's something here. And so we booked our trip out there to get us, to get out to see you as quickly as we could. And that was the start of... That was two and a half years ago, and I've had, chronic neck and shoulder pain for 10 years from a workout injury. That same thing, not near- not nearly as severe, [00:06:00] but, just constantly going between doctors and physical therapists, and it'd get really bad, and I'd commit to fix it, and then nothing would happen. And so I'd give up. And after I saw the success Michelle was having, I said, I gotta, I gotta try this as well." And so I became a client, and then ultimately we even saw our two young sons to help them with some things. Yeah, it's been two and a half years now, and it's, it's been a journey for sure, but, one we're incredibly grateful for. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I was reviewing, Michelle's case a little bit before this chat, and, yeah, she, was in a neck brace when I initially consulted her, and just, having trouble lifting her head. A pretty, pretty low movement score for sure. So I've, she's been one of my cases over the past few years that I've really enjoyed [00:07:00] seeing her, improvement. She's now, moving, I think in the, the top 10% of all our clients. She's really had a fun transformation. really, enjoyed that. Maybe share with our listeners, you said you were a little skeptical there in the beginning, and, what maybe helped you have that faith, that trust to do what we're recommending and, and fly out to St. Louis? What, what helped you have that trust? Peter Fritz: Yeah, honestly, part of it was desperation, right? Yeah. We had done... It felt like we had done everything, right? We'd seen all the typical doctors, the chiropractor, the acupuncture, the therapist, you name it. Spent a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of stress and, in talking to you it was different, right? And so it felt [00:08:00] we haven't tried this yet. And also you didn't sugarcoat it, right? It was like, this is not a quick fix. It's probably taken you a long time to get here, asking us how long have you been in this pain state, and it's been, 10, 15, even 20 years. And so it's, it's not gonna be come in for an adjustment and you're good to go. But you also used language and concepts. I'm an engineer by training, and I'm very conceptual and I never understood, like for myself, I had... Going back to high school, I played football and I ran track and I developed these just horrendous shin splints junior year of high school, and I couldn't really play competitive sports ever since then. I really haven't been able to run. And then I had these shoulder issues, and my whole life I was like, "Something's off with my body." But I didn't know what it was and no one could explain it to me. MRIs, oh, we could do this little surgery on your shoulder. I actually had this crazy surgery on my [00:09:00] shins and calves in high school, but it never made sense to me. And then you started talking about the trunk and proximal stability and breathing in a more functional, holistic way, and it just kinda made sense to me that could be that, kind of foundation that's been missing, and so yeah, that was where, that was, after hearing all that, we're like, we gotta try this." Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Oh, great. Yeah, no, I think that, that that feeds well into this insight we're gonna talk about this week in that the, a lot of the population, a lot of the culture is going to be often leaning in one direction for some of these neuromusculoskeletal conditions and sometimes other health conditions. And, that's not always, really what's going on. And, with, [00:10:00] neuromusculoskeletal care, often the focus is on what? So if you're having neck pain, the focus is gonna be on those structures in the neck. If you're having those shin issues, the, the focus is gonna be, really trying to treat and do things to that lower leg. And most of the time with neuromusculoskeletal conditions, that is not where the problem is. That's not why you're having stress in those areas. And, and so that, that's our, that- that's our focus is really trying to identify why you're having stress in the shins, why you're having stress continually develop in the shoulder and the neck. And when we do that, when we really just, focus and extensively, look at why that's happening, we get to different answers and, and, then those different answers get to [00:11:00] different solutions and plans and that's where we sometimes get the results where others don't. Peter Fritz: Yeah, I remember the first time we got to see, or I got treated, and at the time it was, like, my, my left neck and shoulder, and I had, this general pain in my shoulder. It's always really hard to explain where and how it hurt, just kinda hurt. And, and you treated me, you had me on my side, and you touched my trunk and inside of my knee, things that weren't bothering me or hurting me, and you had me stand up like, "How did you feel?" It's I felt like I had a whole new shoulder. And it was just like... And that was like a, a wow moment. It's like, okay, there's something here. So when he's like, "Yeah, your left trunk isn't working, and that's why your shoulder has the stress and therefore signals the pain," I'm like, "That, I believe it." Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah, those are fun moments. The, the... we've often referred to them as, wow, wow changes [00:12:00] that we can prompt clinically and over the years what I've realized is, what's really important is that we teach the clients, the patients how to keep that issue from coming back. So it, it's great that we can make that wow, we can take the pain away, but, the, the real key thing is helping the individual, keep that load, that tension from coming back. And that's actually one of Karel Lewít's, my, my mentor from Prague, one of his, wonderful quotes was, "to take the pain away that, that's high value, but to teach the patient how to keep the pain from coming back, that, that's really the difference maker." Peter Fritz: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I remember, and it's been a journey the [00:13:00] last... It'll, I think, yeah, this month has been exactly two years since I've been a formal patient, and, leaving the institute feeling great, come back home, life happens, and, I'd have setbacks and signals again. And I would feel like, oh, man, it, either didn't work or it, quote, unquote, it wore off and now I need to go back. and it was-- And you always talked about this concept of, self-efficacy, which is kinda like confidence, but it's like confidence in, through experience. And it took me, frankly, a while, but probably, even a little less than a year ago. over a year of working with you and Tim, something finally clicked, and it's like, okay, I've had these setbacks, and then we've been able to get through it, and I didn't have to fly back to St. Louis to get on the table, right? Focusing on my breathing, unloading, building back up, really focusing for me specifically, I get my left trunk to really engage all the [00:14:00] time, and then the signals would resolve. And so now if I do something stupid and I, it, I trigger it for a reason, I don't know, it starts to bother me, I don't go down this, mental cycle or spiral that I used to. Now it's like, okay, I got outside the Goldilocks zone you talk about. I missed the target, but I'm still okay, I'm still safe, and I have the tools to get back there and continue my progress. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. that's wonderful. That actually feeds into, next week's insight, which will be focusing on, one of my other grandson's phrases of, "What happened?" And, if you keep that phrase in mind, "what happened?" with a question mark, you, it'll, it'll cause you to interpret it, and respond like you're doing wonderfully, versus [00:15:00] react and think, "Oh, gosh, everything's undesirable again." Yeah ... We love when we hear, our clients, having that discovery and, going through those phase transitions. That's, what we call those where you, identify your self-efficacy and, you then just move forward. Let's, get into this read, from this week and then I'm sure it will prompt some additional conversation. That's enough. At Robert Redford's passing last year, I was prompted internally and on Prime Video to remember many of his movies. I enjoyed many of his stories and performances. I chose Jeremiah Johnson as the one to watch. Filmed in 1972 [00:16:00] about a period in the mid-1800s, I would have first watched it as a teenager. I have watched it many times since. The story combines hardship, resilience, and joy. It is portrayed with a balance of seriousness and humor. Called by many a classic, Jeremiah Johnson reflects adventure, solitude, and human relationships, things that are consistently reported as predictors for living long and meaningful lives, things that we are still searching for today Loosely based on a true story, Johnson retreats to the wide and wild territory of North America to live off the land. He begins his adventure with only the clothes on his back from the Mexican-American War. With no experience in this environment, Johnson initially struggles. The movie reflects the rugged geography and climate as amazing [00:17:00] and dangerous. Several times Johnson screams with anguish and relief, screams that seem like they're coming through you. In the movie, there are early settlers and other mountain men like Johnson. Native Americans were represented by Crow, Flathead, and Blackfeet tribes. The story reflects respect and relationship building. There was logic and illogical. There was good and evil. At a midpoint in the story, Johnson must make a difficult decision. He is forced to interpret caring for others across a chasm of viewpoints. He has to decide what some think to be true and what he knows to be true. His decision leads to change in his relationship with the Crow Indian tribe. It leads to anger, fighting, and death. In our world of [00:18:00] AI, social media, and media, we are faced with decisions on what some think to be true and what we know to be true. Sometimes it is difficult to know. In his fascinating book, Collective Illusions, Todd Rose reports that 80% of all social media messages are created by roughly 10% of all users, and one-quarter of all social media interaction now involves bots. Bot, short for robot, is a computer program that runs automated repetitive task online. These staggering numbers suggest that the opinions you're hearing and seeing are not from most of the people on social media, and certainly not the majority of our culture. However, because our brains take shortcuts for believing what we see and hear, the opinions of a few grow. Rose, a [00:19:00] scientist and professor at Harvard School of Business, confirms what was identified decades ago. People often do not know the difference between what they know and do not know. They will conform to the norm knowingly and unknowingly even when they internally and privately reject it. How much it affects us is amazing and dangerous. Unfortunately, the norm is sometimes a myth. Sometimes the difference between what we think is true and what really is, is razor thin. Johnson and the Crow tribe, Johnson and the Crow tribesmen reacted as anyone would. Sometimes there is not a good choice. Perhaps if each would have paused long enough, they might have gained the perspective to appreciate a better response. Pausing is hard. Perspective is difficult. Anger, fighting, and death are [00:20:00] tragic. At the end of the movie, after many battles, pain, death, and years of Crow tribe trying to kill Johnson and vice versa, there is an acknowledgment of peace. The message seems to be, "That's enough." The message on Johnson's face seems to be, "Thank God." At times, the deluge of information, true and clearly not, useful and clearly not, seems endless, daunting, and unchangeable. Maybe if we collectively begin to pause, have perspective, and relentlessly do what matters, we might create more space for adventure, solitude, and human relations. Maybe when it comes to letting collective illusions influence our decisions, we can become simple and succinct. We can [00:21:00] relentlessly say, "That's enough." All right, as I, as I wrote that and we sent it out there, I, I anticipated it was gonna strike a, something of a serious chord. What, what does it, what, what does it bring forward for you, Peter? Peter Fritz: Yeah, there's a lot there. First, I need to watch that movie. I haven't seen it- Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Oh ... Peter Fritz: so Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. It is a, That was my Peter Fritz: first thought ... Dr. Clayton Skaggs: It is a little older movie and I realize that too. It is such an older movie. If you do get a chance to look at it actually has an overture so they, they play music before they start the movie, and there's an intermission. That's how old that movie Peter Fritz: is. Oh, that sounds great. we'll definitely watch it. No, you're right. There is a lot there. It struck a few chords. My first reaction was [00:22:00] just, like the societal, and even the political, component to it, right? It's like all this discord and- call it the norm versus what really people think is true or know is true, and it's, it has a interesting implication for society and then our, own kind of personal, our personal relationships with family and friends in the community. But on the call, the resilience, pain side of things, a few things stuck out, and that is, to pause is hard, and that's enough. And those are concepts that I struggle with and always have. I'm a all or nothing type of guy, and a more is better type of guy, which Michelle always points out and tries to coach me through. And even starting [00:23:00] off, even starting out with the institute, right? I'd watch Michelle, and I was out there on the first trip with her, in every session with you and with Megan, and seeing all the exercises. And then we came home, I'm like, "I should start doing those." So I did it for three months. And then when I finally got out there to do-- and I was working with Tim, I was like, "I got this. I'm gonna blow through this." And he thought so, too. And then we started doing the exercises, and I was doing it all wrong. Even though I'd been doing it, I'd doing these exercises my whole life since high school, and I'd watch Michelle do it, I wasn't-- I didn't have precision. I wasn't hitting the target, and I thought I was ready for a lot more, but I wasn't. I needed to pause and slow down. And that, I kept running into that for at least the first six months, thinking, "This is too easy. This is too simple. I should be progressing faster and well beyond that." And, I had to accept reality many times to finally pause and slow [00:24:00] down and accept, this is where you're at, this is where your Goldilocks zone is, and this is, where you need to stay at. And so that's something I, I continue to, struggle with, but I feel like these concepts has, have really helped me, and I've tried to apply that into, a lot of aspects, in my life. And then more broadly, to your Insight on what we know or think is true versus what the collective says is true or the norm, I go back to what we've experienced in our life for Michelle, myself, and even our sons, is, you have a diagnosis or a label or this is what Western medical system, this is what to expect. This is how you do things. You need to stay within this lane. And it didn't work for us, and so we had to kinda, kinda try to find our own truth, which was, in many cases, doing less. [00:25:00] Which can be hard socially, right? I love to golf. I don't golf very much after being a, becoming a father, but I do love it and I used to golf more and that was one thing she said, "You gotta do these exercises and nothing else. Don't go surfing. Don't, obviously don't work out in the way you used to. Don't go golfing." So I go golfing for work events, and I still go, but I don't swing the golf club, and folks give me a hard time for that, but I have to have the confidence to know this is, call it my truth, and this is what's right for me. and it can be hard, but- it's, once you find that truth that you think is true for you at that moment, it's, it can be liberating. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Oh, that, that's wonderful. and that is, really the, just the, center of the message that I was hoping would, be part of what came through with, with, this essay and, that it is hard and, often there's a lot [00:26:00] of culture lined up with other opinions. And there certainly, there's often a chasm of other viewpoints and opinions. And so for you to, say, "Look, I respect that. I respect all those other opinions, and here's what is making sense to me and what I'm gonna follow," really takes courage. And that, that's often when we see, the big changes, some, some life-changing things happen for folks is when they do fully, take that step. And so yeah, that's hard. It's sometimes hard to see that, that truth when there's all this other information flying around. And yet that is, that- that's often, man, that, that's what's needed. [00:27:00] Peter Fritz: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a... I think it goes back to things I've heard you say before, is it's simple but it's not easy, right? Doing less is simple but it's not always easy to do. Going against the grain is simple in concept but it's certainly not easy to do. But it can be really rewarding. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah, and, these are, concepts that are, have been around for a long time, right? That, the things that are easy are not usually, where the real fruit is and, and things that are hard are where we really grow and yet, applying them, is, is really where the, the challenge is sometimes. Especially, again, when culture and everyone else says, "Oh, this is easy. Just take this pill, just do this surgery and, [00:28:00] you'll be better in a month." and, and if we all really, which is something we try to teach at the institute, if you really think about it and assess the probability of if you've had something going on and spooling for decades that it would be gone and everything be resolved in a month, it... That, that doesn't make sense, right? but that's what- Peter Fritz: too good to be true ... Dr. Clayton Skaggs: that's what's proposed, right? Too good to be true. I love it. Peter Fritz: Exactly. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Yeah. That is, that is too good to be true. And Peter Fritz: I think that's one of the things that kind of I knew deep down, even if I didn't say it, right? Like just for myself and for my wife too, like it's, been literally multiple decades of this. And so to think that one surgery or one six-week treatment is going to make a big difference, deep down I knew that doesn't make sense. It's gonna be a process, but it's so critical to have- [00:29:00] guidance and wisdom to help you through that process, which is something that we frankly didn't have until we, we found you and your team. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Thank you. Thank you, Peter, and, certainly, we, we do have an extraordinary team there. You, did, you and Michelle both said, that's enough, and you've, really been, listening and stopping these things along this way. And just to clarify, though, now you're doing a lot of things, right? Peter Fritz: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. My wife couldn't pick up our kids, or it was very, very hard to, and now she's running around and playing with them, and I'm working out, with the program that Tim has me on three days a week, and very active. And when time allows I will go golfing, and I'm looking forward to [00:30:00] get back into surfing. So yeah, we are more active and capable now than we've been since probably before high school. So- Wow ... two years feels like a long time, but then when you look back how many years you were in pain and had didn't have resilience to, to get where we're at now. And, we- we're not through it. We still have a long ways to go until we're the best versions of ourselves. But, it feels like it's been a quick journey when you look back in the scheme of things. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: That's wonderful. Thanks again, sir. I really appreciate you being on and taking this time and, being open to sharing you and your family's story, for others. That's the, the purpose of this work that we're doing on this podcast is to try to help others, so really appreciate your time, Peter, and, and your sharing. Peter Fritz: Oh, absolutely. And, I couldn't be more grateful [00:31:00] for you and your wisdom and your team. And I think I shared this with you, last Thanksgiving, but, when our kids were, five and two, it was Thanksgiving. You said, "Hey, let's go around the table and say what we're grateful for." And so Mason jumps up and physically starts walking around the table and talks about what he's grateful for. And all I could think of was how grateful I was to have found you and your team, and how that in turn has helped my family be in such a better place, and ultimately a happier place. So thank you, and anything I can do to help spread the word so other people can experience, the growth and progress and relief that you've provided, more than happy to do so. So hopefully this resonates with someone out there and they'll commit to, making a trip to see you. Dr. Clayton Skaggs: Thanks, Peter. Really appreciate it. [00:32:00] If you enjoyed our conversation today, please like and/or subscribe to our podcast. Maybe most importantly, send it out to others, as many as you can who might benefit from understanding the power of doing what matters. Imagine a hundred million people focused on doing what matters.